Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Once Upon A Time In The West => Topic started by: Sanjuro on January 04, 2003, 11:19:31 PM



Title: Jill's Voice
Post by: Sanjuro on January 04, 2003, 11:19:31 PM
Does somebody know why Leone replaced Claudia Cardinale's voice in OUTIW? Is it because of her accent?


Title: Re:Jill's Voice
Post by: cigar joe on January 05, 2003, 07:52:48 AM
That is a good question, whoever dubbed her sounds like she has a bit of an accent too. Was she dubbed in the Pink Panther?


Title: Re:Jill's Voice
Post by: Sanjuro on January 05, 2003, 01:15:37 PM
I watched "Professionals" on TCM. Cardinale was speaking with her own voice. She speaks good English with a slight accent. Her voice is very husky. The voice-over talent who replaced Cardinale's voice in OUTIW did for other actresses in other movies too.


Title: Re:Jill's Voice
Post by: Chasman on January 05, 2003, 09:26:26 PM
The best info says Cardinale was dubbed by a woman named Joyce Gordon. Here's a link to an old article that primarily concerns her husband, Bernard Grant, who also did his share of dubbing:

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Academy/6053/ar7104a.html


Title: Re:Jill's Voice
Post by: shorty larsen on February 23, 2003, 09:46:52 AM
I don't know why Claudia Cardinale was dubbed. She speaks a very good english, with an accent of course, but Jill's caracter has an accent too.

So what's the point?


Title: Re:Jill's Voice
Post by: cigar joe on February 23, 2003, 10:32:21 AM
Whats the point... exactly, she was supposed to be from New Orleans heavily French-Spanish-Creole mix, it would have been not un-plausable at all for her to have an accent.


Title: Re:Jill's Voice
Post by: shorty larsen on February 23, 2003, 10:35:30 AM
Are we really sure that it's not Claudia Cardinale's voice?

I saw her on italian tv and her voice didn't seemed so differnet form Jill's to me?


Title: Re:Jill's Voice
Post by: Halis on March 24, 2003, 04:06:42 PM
Jill's voice is definitely not Claudia. The Joyce Gordon answer is the most widely accepted.
I once read that in her early Italian movies, Claudia was regularly dubbed by another Italian actress. I believe there was some resistance to her husky voice.
I once saw a documentary that claimed it was common practice in Italy to film an actor or actress in a movie, and then use a different actor or actress to dub them in the Italian Language version.
This sorted the problem of good-looking actors/actresses who didn't have good voices.


Title: Re:Jill's Voice
Post by: The Well on March 01, 2013, 04:12:45 PM
Jill's voice is definitely not Claudia. The Joyce Gordon answer is the most widely accepted.
I once read that in her early Italian movies, Claudia was regularly dubbed by another Italian actress. I believe there was some resistance to her husky voice.
I once saw a documentary that claimed it was common practice in Italy to film an actor or actress in a movie, and then use a different actor or actress to dub them in the Italian Language version.
This sorted the problem of good-looking actors/actresses who didn't have good voices.

would appreciate if this could be known for sure; we all know the magnificient face and should like to know perfect matching voice; if anybody cares, can conclude?


Title: Re: Jill's Voice
Post by: Groggy on March 01, 2013, 04:36:17 PM
Plenty of movies with Claudia speaking English in her own voice (The Pink Panther, The Professionals). Very husky and heavily accented, neither of which applies to Cardinale's dubbing voice in OUATITW. It's strange that they didn't get her to dub her own voice though.


Title: Re: Jill's Voice
Post by: cigar joe on March 02, 2013, 03:56:01 AM
Plenty of movies with Claudia speaking English in her own voice (The Pink Panther, The Professionals). Very husky and heavily accented, neither of which applies to Cardinale's dubbing voice in OUATITW. It's strange that they didn't get her to dub her own voice though.

She could easily have been an Italian ex-whore from New Orleans.  8)


Title: Re: Jill's Voice
Post by: Groggy on March 02, 2013, 05:03:09 AM
Technically a Tunisian-French-Italian whore.


Title: Re: Jill's Voice
Post by: dave jenkins on March 02, 2013, 08:16:49 AM
It's strange that they didn't get her to dub her own voice though.
Who is "they"? You mean Leone and his creative team?


Title: Re: Jill's Voice
Post by: Groggy on March 02, 2013, 11:10:02 AM
It's a plain and fancy they! That's who "they" is!


Title: Re: Jill's Voice
Post by: drinkanddestroy on March 02, 2013, 07:06:07 PM
IMO it would not have been good to have Cardinale dub her own voice. She has a very heavy accent when speaking English (and that's recently, maybe it was even worse 45 years ago), so if they used her real voice then there would have to be some explanation as to why she had such an accent, where she was from, etc.

Considering that they weren't recording direct sound anyway, I don't think it was a bad idea to use a voice actress.

I don't know the voice actress's name, but it was definitely the same one who does the English dub for the lead actress in The Mercenary (aka A Professional Gun).

Frayling says that Cardinale wanted a part in OUATIA (I believe the part of Carol), but it wouldn't have worked with the accents. (About 2/3 of OUATIA was recorded with direct sound).


Title: Re: Jill's Voice
Post by: Groggy on March 02, 2013, 09:05:43 PM
Quote
IMO it would not have been good to have Cardinale dub her own voice. She has a very heavy accent when speaking English (and that's recently, maybe it was even worse 45 years ago), so if they used her real voice then there would have to be some explanation as to why she had such an accent, where she was from, etc.

I don't grant the premise. Even if I did it's something that could be handled in a line or two of dialogue.


Title: Re: Jill's Voice
Post by: drinkanddestroy on March 07, 2013, 12:34:17 AM


I don't know the voice actress's name, but it was definitely the same one who dues the English dub for the lead actress in The Mercenary (aka A Professional Gun).


In middle of watching The Conformist now. I am pretty sure the English dialogue for the voice of Madre di Giulia (the character played by Yvonne Sanson) is also dubbed by the same voice actress that dubbed Jill in OUATITW


Title: Re: Jill's Voice
Post by: Groggy on March 07, 2013, 12:53:28 PM
Why are you watching the English dub of The Conformist?


Title: Re: Jill's Voice
Post by: The Well on March 22, 2013, 02:53:56 PM
IMO it would not have been good to have Cardinale dub her own voice. She has a very heavy accent when speaking English (and that's recently, maybe it was even worse 45 years ago)...

yes, that makes sense, first in a technical aspect and second...in..., how to express it...in a feeling aspect; and do not forget that professionalism was at a full power at that time and they knew well how the voice should sound like to match the face; and they did it! Me too cant imagine there could be other voice linked to this face (now); or they made me to beleive it, and thats it! The same as Harmonica telling: Hey, the gun! You may contemplate for thousands years who could have dubbed him :)

P.S.

I wil google that voice suggestion in another post placed here and if any result I will share my findings or maybe just impressions.


Title: Re: Jill's Voice
Post by: Usaviator on July 23, 2017, 12:55:52 AM
Forgive me for not being caught up on all the details of who dubbed over who's voice.  I have read over this thread, but still have some questions as I am fairly new to OUTIW. 

I understand Cardinale's voice wasn't used for Jill, but obviously Cardinale was still saying things for the filming of the movie.  Was she speaking English the whole time?  Were there any mics even present?  Do those recordings exist anywhere?  I haven't watched OUTIW yet with the intention of determining if the lips even match the same language as the audio. I'm sure I would have noticed easily if the entire movie was in a different language, but does every character speak English in every line of the movie? 

I definitely have noticed that the audible experience with OUTIW is a very unique and rich experience, but I'm not very used to the idea that actors would be speaking English on film, and receive separate English audio dubs into the sound.  I'm a little bummed that Cardinale's voice wasn't used for the dub actually. It feels a little impersonal.  It's only a minor detail, nothing to make me love the movie less, but I wish I didn't know that fact.  Oh well though, I haven't actually heard her voice I don't think.  I did watch Girl with a Suitcase which was in Italian with English subs.  Does anyone know if that was her real voice?  Now I'm curious to what she really sounds like.


Title: Re: Jill's Voice
Post by: mike siegel on July 23, 2017, 01:12:05 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfJS_-3vUBA


Title: Re: Jill's Voice
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 23, 2017, 01:14:06 AM
Forgive me for not being caught up on all the details of who dubbed over who's voice.  I have read over this thread, but still have some questions as I am fairly new to OUTIW. 

I understand Cardinale's voice wasn't used for Jill, but obviously Cardinale was still saying things for the filming of the movie.  Was she speaking English the whole time?  Were there any mics even present?  Do those recordings exist anywhere?  I haven't watched OUTIW yet with the intention of determining if the lips even match the same language as the audio. I'm sure I would have noticed easily if the entire movie was in a different language, but does every character speak English in every line of the movie? 

I definitely have noticed that the audible experience with OUTIW is a very unique and rich experience, but I'm not very used to the idea that actors would be speaking English on film, and receive separate English audio dubs into the sound.  I'm a little bummed that Cardinale's voice wasn't used for the dub actually. It feels a little impersonal.  It's only a minor detail, nothing to make me love the movie less, but I wish I didn't know that fact.  Oh well though, I haven't actually heard her voice I don't think.  I did watch Girl with a Suitcase which was in Italian with English subs.  Does anyone know if that was her real voice?  Now I'm curious to what she really sounds like.

I'm sure Cardinale was saying the lines in English - the lip movements match the dialogue well (as opposed to some of the dubbing of the European actors in FOD/FAFDM, whose lip movements clearly don't match the English dialogue).  And Cardinale speaks English well, albeit heavily accented, in recent interviews. I'm not sure if she spoke it as well in the '60's, but based on the lip movements, I'm sure that she was speaking the correct English dialogue.


Title: Re: Jill's Voice
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 23, 2017, 01:21:25 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfJS_-3vUBA

Here is a much earlier interview, from 1972 (or 4 years after OUATITW) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R7s5A0hTggs

Yeah, she speaks English well, but heavily accented. I'm sure she is saying the lines in English. No use wondering whether Leone coulda shoulda woulda used her voice. The voice actress he used is pretty good; that voice will always be Jill's for me. (Of course, it helps a lot that OUATITW was the first movie I ever saw Cardinale in, so I didn't know it wasn't her voice.) And btw, that voice actress does have a very slight accent - so if you want to imagine Jill as a sexy French or Italian whore, you still can  ;)

OUATITW is damn near flawless (with the exception of the distributors screwing up the end music; I listen to the correct music on my iPod when watching it)  :)


Title: Re: Jill's Voice
Post by: cigar joe on July 23, 2017, 03:54:56 AM
And btw, that voice actress does have a very slight accent - so if you want to imagine Jill as a sexy French or Italian whore, you still can  ;)
OUATITW is damn near flawless (with the exception of the distributors screwing up the end music; I listen to the correct music on my iPod when watching it)  :)

And Jill's character was from New Orleans so an accent would have worked regardless and been believable.