Sergio Leone Web Board

Other/Miscellaneous => Off-Topic Discussion => Topic started by: cigar joe on September 18, 2011, 04:46:40 PM

Title: Old Films Noir Index (so called)
Post by: cigar joe on September 18, 2011, 04:46:40 PM
New Index necessitated because old panels reached 10000 character limits, the list with new (extra) panels here:

 http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=13224.msg192886#msg192886 (http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=13224.msg192886#msg192886)
 
Title: Re: Films Noir (so called)
Post by: cigar joe on September 19, 2011, 04:00:10 PM
+) Neo Noir list here  (http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=12867.msg188126#msg188126)
 
NOIR TV

The Fugitive TV Series http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1822.msg89632#msg89632


BOOKS

Book http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1822.msg47565#msg47565 (http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1822.msg47565#msg47565)

"Dark City" and "Dark City Dames" http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1822.msg22630#msg22630 (http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1822.msg22630#msg22630)

"Dark City - The Film Noir" by Spencer Selby    http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1822.msg152425#msg152425
 (http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1822.msg152425#msg152425)
 "Film Noir" by Alain Silver and James Ursini http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1822.msg47557#msg47557 (http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1822.msg47557#msg47557)

Book Review of Otto Preminger biography http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1822.msg102873#msg102873

The-Maltese-Touch-of-Evil-Film-Noir-and-Potential-Criticism http://www.tcm.com/this-month/movie-news.html?id=412909&name=The-Maltese-Touch-of-Evil-Film-Noir-and-Potential-Criticism (http://www.tcm.com/this-month/movie-news.html?id=412909&name=The-Maltese-Touch-of-Evil-Film-Noir-and-Potential-Criticism)





ARTICLES

Noir's Hard Luck Ladies Article  http://www.criminalelement.com/blogs/2011/08/noirs-hard-luck-ladies-peggie-castle (http://www.criminalelement.com/blogs/2011/08/noirs-hard-luck-ladies-peggie-castle)


WEB SITES

Back Alley Forums http://www.backalleynoir.com/forum.php (http://www.backalleynoir.com/forum.php)

The Blackboard http://members.boardhost.com/mrvalentine/ (http://members.boardhost.com/mrvalentine/)

movie website: http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1822.msg29115#msg29115 (http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1822.msg29115#msg29115)

theyshootpictures.com  http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1822.msg72150#msg72150 (http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1822.msg72150#msg72150)

"Noir of the Week" Website: http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1822.msg84190#msg84190 (http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1822.msg84190#msg84190)

Tribute to Dark Passage http://www.noircon.info/2010/10/noircon-and-david-goodis-revisit-dark.html
 (http://www.noircon.info/2010/10/noircon-and-david-goodis-revisit-dark.html)

The Dark Room http://cinepad.com/filmnoir/dark_room.htm (http://cinepad.com/filmnoir/dark_room.htm)


IMAGES - CLIPS

Zoot Suits

Cab Calloway Geechy Joe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyuRT-ExzuQ

A Zoot Suit With a Reet Pleat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zKP-_oIADg&feature=related

Tex Avery's "Oh Wolfy": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtcJ7gvJP0Q&feature=related

Zoot Cat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6Gwdj0C6S4

Jim Carey in The Mask: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNEAnDrx3UE&feature=related

Other:

http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1822.msg150382#msg150382


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKQfDNw5ZNI



A good start.  O0 Now you can start adding things like Backfire, Highway 301, Secret Beyond the Door, 711 Ocean Drive, Specter of the Rose, The Spiritualist, Violent Saturday, The Web, etc.

Some of the dates are debatable, too.




A good start.  O0 Now you can start adding things like Backfire, Highway 301, Secret Beyond the Door, 711 Ocean Drive, Specter of the Rose, The Spiritualist, Violent Saturday, The Web, etc.

Some of the dates are debatable, too.

Give me the ect. 's too, feel free to point  them  screw-ups out and I'll correct them.
Title: Re: Films Noir (so called)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on September 20, 2011, 09:12:53 PM
I hope y'all appreciate the hard work and dedication of cigar joe, who singlehandedly took care of re-arranging the Noir index to make it better. All he cares about is the improvement of the SLWB, with no regard for the effort involved.

A very big THANK YOU and  O0 O0 for your work!
Title: Re: Films Noir (so called)
Post by: Novecento on October 31, 2011, 04:05:11 PM
Great job Cigar Joe  O0 O0

This is so much better than having to trawl through that film noir thread.

Very much appreciated!
Title: Re: Films Noir (so called)
Post by: cigar joe on October 31, 2011, 04:07:45 PM
Great job Cigar Joe  O0 O0

This is so much better than having to trawl through that film noir thread.

Very much appreciated!

No problem is something significant  is missing just start a new thread and I'll link it to the index.
Title: Re: Films Noir (so called)
Post by: dave jenkins on June 24, 2015, 12:59:29 PM
For reference: http://criterionforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=517431#p517431
Title: Re: Films Noir (so called)
Post by: cigar joe on June 24, 2015, 04:56:42 PM
For reference: http://criterionforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=517431#p517431

Nice
Title: Re: Films Noir (so called)
Post by: cigar joe on January 26, 2017, 04:03:26 AM
From the many and varied books written about Film Noir the often quoted time frame that these films fit into is usually 1941 to 1958 some occasionally stretch to 1959. Who came came up with this initially, and why is it so strictly adhered too?
 
The more Noirs I watch the more I'm questioning this. I'm beginning to come around to a different thought, and that is that Classic American Film Noir stretched from say 1940 to 1968 (1968 being the last general use of B&W film in production) here is the breakdown by year of Black & White Noirs (there may be a few more to add in, in that 1959 to 1968 stretch (the 1959 cut off possibly for major studio production but independent productions continued):
 
1940 (5)
1941 (11)
1942 (5)
1943 (5)
1944 (18)
1945 (22)
1946 (42)
1947 (53)
1948 (43)
1949 (52)
1950 (57)
1951 (39)
1952 (26)
1953 (21)
1954 (26)
1955 (20)
1956 (19)
1957 (12)
1958 (7)
1959 (7)
1960 (2)
1961 (5)
1962 (6)
1963 (1)
1964 (4)
1965 (3)
1966 (2)
1967 (2)
1968 (1)
 
I'm also thinking now that the Color Film Noirs within this 1940-1968 time frame were the first Neo Noirs so that the two sub genres/styles actually overlap. The catalyst for this new alignment is when I read a quote about Neo Noir that said that if the filmmakers made a conscience decision to film in black and white when color was the norm then it was an artistic decision and not one of necessity for budget purposes, Same the other way if B&W was the norm for low budget B Noirs then it was an artistic decision to film it color.
 
The color film Noir the first 30 years (again there maybe a few more in these early years but they as a whole really up ticked in the 1980s and 1990's):
 
1945 (1)
1947 (1)
1948 (1)
1953 (2)
1955 (3)
1956 (3)
1958 (1)
1966 (1)
1967 (1)
1969 (1)
1970 (2)
1971 (4)
1972 (1)
1973 (0)
1974 (2)
Title: Re: Films Noir (so called)
Post by: titoli on January 26, 2017, 05:52:58 AM
Still jobless?
Title: Re: Films Noir (so called)
Post by: dave jenkins on January 26, 2017, 11:22:10 AM
Either that or his wife is away for a few days.  ;)
Title: Re: Films Noir (so called)
Post by: titoli on January 28, 2017, 05:33:06 PM
From the many and varied books written about Film Noir the often quoted time frame that these films fit into is usually 1941 to 1958 some occasionally stretch to 1959. Who came came up with this initially, and why is it so strictly adhered too?

I'm currently reading a book on the subject and the reason for the 1958 is given as being the year of Welles movie.
Title: Re: Films Noir (so called)
Post by: titoli on January 28, 2017, 05:34:43 PM
Apparently, the movies made after that date and before the "neo-noir" are dubbed as "post-noir".
Title: Re: Films Noir (so called)
Post by: dave jenkins on January 28, 2017, 07:00:27 PM
I think CJ's proposal is sound. 1958 is an arbitrary date. 1968 (shouldn't it be 1967, the last year b&w films were industry standard?) is at least tied to a change in the industry. Since the whole noir notion is an illusion anyway, it makes sense to have something concrete to go by.
Title: Re: Films Noir (so called)
Post by: cigar joe on January 29, 2017, 03:47:39 AM
I think CJ's proposal is sound. 1958 is an arbitrary date. 1968 (shouldn't it be 1967, the last year b&w films were industry standard?) is at least tied to a change in the industry. Since the whole noir notion is an illusion anyway, it makes sense to have something concrete to go by.

I used 1968 to include The Pick-Up a sexploitation noir ;-)

I don't know why '58 is often selected either, that leaves out Odds Against Tomorrow (1959), maybe they are going by just major American studio productions.
Title: Re: Films Noir (so called)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on January 29, 2017, 08:52:08 AM
But how many black-and-white noirs were there in the 60's? Are you stretching the period by a decade just to cover a handful of films?
Title: Re: Films Noir (so called)
Post by: dave jenkins on January 29, 2017, 09:30:06 AM
But how many black-and-white noirs were there in the 60's? Are you stretching the period by a decade just to cover a handful of films?
Even if that's the case, why not?

One of the things often noted in the decline of noir is the fact that a lot of the look and sensibilities of the thing migrated to TV in the late 50s. NBC was the first all color network, and I don't think they went the full peacock until 1965. Meanwhile you had such important noir-like shows like Perry Mason (57-66) and Alfred Hitchcock Presents/The Alfred Hitchcock Hour (55-62-65) andThe Fugitive (63-67) going on. Why not expand the parameters so as to take in the great Noir TV episodes? If true noir requires b&w cinematography, then it seems reasonable to me count everything eligible until all-color became the industry standard.
Title: Re: Films Noir (so called)
Post by: cigar joe on January 29, 2017, 03:41:26 PM
Even if that's the case, why not?

One of the things often noted in the decline of noir is the fact that a lot of the look and sensibilities of the thing migrated to TV in the late 50s. NBC was the first all color network, and I don't think they went the full peacock until 1965. Meanwhile you had such important noir-like shows like Perry Mason (57-66) and Alfred Hitchcock Presents/The Alfred Hitchcock Hour (55-62-65) andThe Fugitive (63-67) going on. Why not expand the parameters so as to take in the great Noir TV episodes? If true noir requires b&w cinematography, then it seems reasonable to me count everything eligible until all-color became the industry standard.

Agree, include Naked City TV Series (1958–1963), Mike Hammer TV (1958–1959), Peter Gunn TV (1958–1961), Johnny Staccato TV (1959), Richard Diamond, Private Detective TV (1957–1960) Johnny Midnight TV (1960) and I'm seen episodes of Suspense TV (1949–1954) that were quite noir-ish.
Title: Re: Films Noir (so called)
Post by: dave jenkins on January 29, 2017, 04:48:46 PM
Some have even made the case that The Twilight Zone is noir-ish. Hey, it's got the right name for it.
Title: Re: Films Noir (so called)
Post by: cigar joe on January 29, 2017, 05:53:36 PM
Some have even made the case that The Twilight Zone is noir-ish. Hey, it's got the right name for it.

Check out episode one if you get a chance, lots of Dutch Angles in that one, hell even some Outer Limits were very noiri-sh.
Title: Re: Films Noir (so called)
Post by: cigar joe on March 19, 2017, 03:16:27 AM
Found this on a Criminal Element.com article full article here: http://www.criminalelement.com/blogs/2011/05/masters-of-darkness-and-light-film-noirs-unheralded-geniuses (http://www.criminalelement.com/blogs/2011/05/masters-of-darkness-and-light-film-noirs-unheralded-geniuses)

Listed below are sixteen cinemeatographers who shot some 135 film noirs during the classic period. That’s over one third of the entire body of classic noir, including the majority of its masterworks! Here’s where to start appreciating the major, and often undervalued, contribution of these great artists:

John Alton-T-Men, Raw Deal, The Big Combo
Burnett Guffey-The Reckless Moment, In A Lonely Place, Scandal Sheet
Nicholas Musuraca-Stranger On The Third Floor, Out Of The Past, Roadblock
John F. Seitz-Double Indemnity, The Big Clock, Sunset Blvd.
Harry J. Wild-Murder My Sweet, Pitfall, Cornered
Joseph LaShelle-Laura, Fallen Angel, Where The Sidewalk Ends
James Wong Howe-Body And Soul, He Ran All The Way, The Sweet Smell Of Success
Milton Krasner-The Woman in the Window, Scarlet Street, The Set-Up
George Diskant-Desperate, Kansas City Confidential, The Narrow Margin
Franz F. Planer-Criss Cross, 99 River Street, The Long Wait
Joseph P. Biroc-Cry Danger, The Killer That Stalked New York, World For Ransom
Joseph MacDonald-Pickup On South Street, Panic In The Streets, Street With No Name
Russell Metty-Kiss The Blood Off My Hands, Ride The Pink Horse, Touch Of Evil
Ernest Laszlo-M (1951), DOA, Kiss My Deadly
Lee Garmes-Caught, Nightmare Alley, Detective Story
Woody Bredell-The Killers, Phantom Lady, The Unsuspected
Title: Re: Films Noir (so called)
Post by: dave jenkins on March 19, 2017, 09:05:23 AM
Joseph LaShelle-Laura, Fallen Angel, Where The Sidewalk Ends
And all with Dana Andrews. A natural trilogy.

Very helpful list, Joe, thanks.  O0
Title: Re: Films Noir (so called)
Post by: XhcnoirX on March 20, 2017, 11:10:08 AM
Found this on a Criminal Element.com article full article here: http://www.criminalelement.com/blogs/2011/05/masters-of-darkness-and-light-film-noirs-unheralded-geniuses (http://www.criminalelement.com/blogs/2011/05/masters-of-darkness-and-light-film-noirs-unheralded-geniuses)

Great article, thanks for sharing!  O0
Title: Re: Films Noir (so called)
Post by: cigar joe on October 31, 2017, 03:44:11 AM
But how many black-and-white noirs were there in the 60's? Are you stretching the period by a decade just to cover a handful of films?

With due diligence if identified about 43 between 1960-67-8.
Title: Re: Films Noir (so called)
Post by: cigar joe on October 31, 2017, 03:47:14 AM
Just following up on this, with due diligence if identified about 43 between 1960-67-8.
Title: Old Films Noir Index so called
Post by: BruceMP on August 10, 2018, 08:44:08 PM
I prefer the supermodels of yesteryear CC, NC, TP, CS, CT etc etc than todays crop OR am I just getting old?


Replies please

        «» -   ,        .        ,        ,   ,      ..
: +79308033940
https://clean-body-clear-mind.blogspot.com/
Title: Re: Old Films Noir Index so called
Post by: cigar joe on August 11, 2018, 08:03:55 AM
I prefer the supermodels of yesteryear CC, NC, TP, CS, CT etc etc than todays crop OR am I just getting old?


Replies please

        «» -   ,        .        ,        ,   ,      ..
: +79308033940
https://clean-body-clear-mind.blogspot.com/

Don't follow, actual supermodels? Or are you talking films? You'd have to spell out the names....