Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => For a Few Dollars More => Topic started by: titoli on December 09, 2011, 04:26:56 PM



Title: Indio and the Colonel Sit Down
Post by: titoli on December 09, 2011, 04:26:56 PM
I was watching the Van Cleef - Kinsky duel scene in english:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=477ViYr4KP8&feature=endscreen&NR=1

and noticed that at the end, when LVC and GMV seat face to face, the music box motive starts in the background. That doesn't happen in the italian version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deRZBUtblJk



Title: Re: Editing
Post by: Lil Brutto on December 10, 2011, 12:27:49 AM
Interesting discovery, titoli.

There are probably more subtle differences between the Italian and international cuts of these films. It would take a comprehensive comparison of both cuts to determine all the differences and this forum would be a great place to list them all.


Title: Re: Editing
Post by: titoli on December 10, 2011, 12:40:11 AM
It would be interesting to know what happen in the spanish, german and french version of same. Also, I would like to know whether this version of the music box theme is Morricone's or a Holmes added treat. 


Title: Re: Editing
Post by: cigar joe on December 10, 2011, 05:38:36 AM
It would be interesting to know what happen in the spanish, german and french version of same. Also, I would like to know whether this version of the music box theme is Morricone's or a Holmes added treat. 

Yes that is interesting.


Title: Re: Editing
Post by: titoli on December 11, 2011, 08:27:48 AM
The french like the english, checked just now.


Title: Re: Editing
Post by: cigar joe on December 11, 2011, 03:39:00 PM
I wonder why the difference.


Title: Re: Editing
Post by: titoli on December 12, 2011, 06:19:02 AM
I wonder why the difference.

My two cents. As the french and english versions were released after the italian-spanish-german ones Leone thought the music might fit into the scene and asked M. for an alternative version of the tune. That's why it would be interesting to know whether those two other foreign releases were similar to the italian one. And of course to know if that version is featured in the collections of the soundtrack or in other parts of the movie (I don't think I ever heard it, but I might be wrong). The fact that the tune is featured in the french audio (of my english release) makes me guess that it was Leone who did the later editing and passed it up to the americans for the dubbing with the added tune. He certainly didn't supervise the english release (Vincenzoni did, as he writes in his memories) but he might have supervised the french one.


Title: Re: Editing
Post by: Cusser on December 12, 2011, 06:48:22 AM
My opinion: that music SHOULD be there.  I might think it was inadvertently left out of the Italian version.  It serves a big function to underly the hatred and memory that Morimer has for Indio, but Mortimer knows he has to control himself and wait, no matter how much anger he has within him.


Title: Re: Editing
Post by: titoli on December 12, 2011, 07:30:29 AM
My opinion: that music SHOULD be there.  I might think it was inadvertently left out of the Italian version.  It serves a big function to underly the hatred and memory that Morimer has for Indio, but Mortimer knows he has to control himself and wait, no matter how much anger he has within him.

Yes, but I want to know if it's in the soundtrack compilation you have.


Title: Re: Editing
Post by: Lil Brutto on December 13, 2011, 11:56:59 AM
Yes, but I want to know if it's in the soundtrack compilation you have.

The music box motif in question doesn't appear on either the GDM or Leroy Holmes soundtrack.

I checked the FAFDM MGM blu-ray and the Spanish soundtrack also has the motif. I still need to check the German DVD; I'll do that when I get home tonight.


Title: Re: Editing
Post by: titoli on December 13, 2011, 12:36:53 PM
The music box motif in question doesn't appear on either the GDM or Leroy Holmes soundtrack.

I checked the FAFDM MGM blu-ray and the Spanish soundtrack also has the motif. I still need to check the German DVD; I'll do that when I get home tonight.

Thanx. Then it would look that Leone got aware of the "hole" right after the italian release.


Title: Re: Editing
Post by: mike siegel on December 13, 2011, 04:57:01 PM
As far as I recall the music is in the German version. At least the 1965 dubbing I have on Super 8...
The English clip looks interesting color-wise, is that the blu-ray?


Title: Re: Editing
Post by: Lil Brutto on December 13, 2011, 11:38:35 PM
German Paramount DVD has the motif.

None of the Italian versions I own - Mondo BD, CVC 1st edition DVD (with full beating scene), and CVC 2nd edition DVD - has the motif.


Title: Re: Editing
Post by: titoli on December 13, 2011, 11:44:58 PM
I can add I saw the movie in italian cinemas at least five times and the motif was never there.


Title: Re: Editing
Post by: Lil Brutto on December 14, 2011, 09:46:17 AM
The added motif does enhance the scene. It's a worthy addition.


Title: Re: Editing
Post by: iceman on December 14, 2011, 12:07:04 PM
One thing I noticed...in the wide screen English version, you notice how much of the screen is missing in the Italian version. in some views of Indios gang at the Bar, there are some people totally out of shot...like just before the motive starts at time 1.47 there are eight in shot in the w/screen and only 6 1/2 in the italian version. Did they cut that from the width of the film never to be regained in the italian version?

ICE


Title: Re: Editing
Post by: titoli on December 14, 2011, 07:14:01 PM
I might think it was inadvertently left out of the Italian version. 

If no soundtrack compilations turn up including it, then it is consequential to assume it was not a mistake but a Leone's second thought.


Title: Re: Indio and the Colonel Sit Down
Post by: titoli on December 19, 2011, 01:08:37 AM
I recall just now having read (probably in Frayling's biography) how Leone and Morricone went together to watch the movie in a theatre and had lots of fun during that scene.  Easy to assume how one of the two must have then realized the mistake and why whoever of the two related the accident to Frayling could remember an otherwise quite trivial occurrence, forgetting to explain how the memory could had been jogged.


Title: Re: Indio and the Colonel Sit Down
Post by: drinkanddestroy on January 04, 2012, 12:32:59 PM
I believe it is on Frayling's commentary to FAFDM that he says that whenever Morricone would watch that scene he would just burst into uncontrollable laughter  ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Indio and the Colonel Sit Down
Post by: Senza on March 11, 2013, 08:14:10 PM
I just finished reading that bit haha