Sergio Leone Web Board

Other/Miscellaneous => Off-Topic Discussion => Topic started by: stanton on June 23, 2013, 12:58:58 AM

Title: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: stanton on June 23, 2013, 12:58:58 AM
Unknown to most some might call this the greatest band of the known Universe.

The BBC-Session version of Darkness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBMuSFSMo28

One of the 10 greatest songs ever!
Especially in this version.



Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: stanton on June 23, 2013, 12:59:13 AM
Attended a Van der Graaf Generator concert last Thursday. Met a few old fans who are responsible for the finest bootleg live recordings back in the 70s, stuff which I heard extensively in the last 20 years despite their Lo-Lo-Fi mono quality.

The concert was a pretty brutish one, and for that rougher than the other ones I had the pleasure to hear since their 2005 comeback. The set would have been a great surprise if I hadn't already known that they were playing the two 23 min tracks Flight (albeit a Hammill solo epic) and A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers. And with Meurgly's III another longish piece. Also 3 tracks form the last 2 albums and Scorched Earth for the encore.

Fantastic and intensive concert.
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on June 23, 2013, 01:53:22 PM
I would have liked to have seen "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers", probably my favorite VdGG track. I'm not so keen on "Flight" and anyway it's available live on The Margin. The recent VdGG DVDs have been good. I think I'll play the one from The Metropolis tonight.
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on June 23, 2013, 02:36:26 PM
Huh, I didn't realize this was up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUnTqMUYmwo

It's nice being able to see the 4-piece in action.
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: stanton on June 24, 2013, 01:30:02 AM
Huh, I didn't realize this was up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUnTqMUYmwo

It's nice being able to see the 4-piece in action.

That's the ultimate fan version. Cut together from every available audience video recording. I think there were a lot. The sound is probably now taken from the official CD, or maybe still from the best audience recording.

The 2 existing TV recordings from 1972 and 1975 are also available on YouTube.
Ohh, and the 2 tracks from the Beat Club from 1971. Still with a real bass player then.

Lighthouse Keepers is probably my favourite track of them too. Or Darkness, or Man-Erg.
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on June 24, 2013, 08:46:09 AM
The sound is probably now taken from the official CD, or maybe still from the best audience recording.
I was suspecting the CD, although there are a few moments of audience noise that aren't on the CD. Maybe some clever editing?
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: stanton on June 24, 2013, 11:09:32 AM
If the audience noise is only between the tracks then yes.
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on July 03, 2013, 03:55:57 PM
Of course, I like the K Group too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wVbW6BHRl0

I found a recent rendering of Lighthouse Keepers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtfHCoWK51M
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on January 25, 2014, 11:49:24 AM
Hmm, I was expecting something a bit more radical: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu2I2pT7CpI
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on December 09, 2014, 12:40:11 PM
Merlin Atmos! http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00PUJZ3OO/ref=pd_luc_rh_mrairec_02_01_t_lh?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Yeah, baby!  O0
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: stanton on December 09, 2014, 01:01:50 PM
13 of the 14 songs which were played on that tour. Only Mr. Sands is missing.

There is also a new PH solo album available.
As a normal CD, or as a 3 CD. 

http://sofasound.com/phcds/allthatmightbox.htm
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on February 10, 2015, 10:53:45 AM
Merlin Atmos! http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00PUJZ3OO/ref=pd_luc_rh_mrairec_02_01_t_lh?ie=UTF8&psc=1
In da house!  O0 O0 O0
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on March 09, 2015, 09:04:33 AM
http://www.amazon.co.uk/After-Flood-Graaf-Generator-1968-1977/dp/B00TQE9SR2/ref=pd_sim_m_h__2?ie=UTF8&refRID=133DG612BG51WFKYZHW5
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: stanton on March 09, 2015, 01:00:19 PM
Yeah, I noticed that a few days ago. Great, great versions, and most are pretty different from the album versions, many are even better than the album versions.

The only disappointing aspect is that those sessions which are only available in bad quality are still missing. Which could mean, must mean that they were not preserved by the BBC. I still hope that the music collection of John Peel the transcription LPs of those can be find.
I love all the BBC stuff, also from other bands and musicians.

Those songs which were not officially released before, were already released on diverse bootlegs in comparatively good quality. I hope these are now presented in perfect quality.
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: stanton on March 09, 2015, 01:12:23 PM
Darkness:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBMuSFSMo28


Killer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDc5MeV7IKc

Still Life:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBZGZrOpu5I

Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on March 10, 2015, 11:06:31 AM
Yeah, I noticed that a few days ago. Great, great versions, and most are pretty different from the album versions, many are even better than the album versions.

I love all the BBC stuff, also from other bands and musicians.

Agreed. The policy of making bands record in the BBC's studios produced interesting alt versions of just about anything ever assayed. I don't know if it was a case of someone different engineering the things, limitations of the studio, rearrangements or whatever, but the different versions are almost always interesting. Not necessarily better than the album cuts . . . just different. But, as you say, sometimes better too.
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on July 10, 2016, 11:01:09 AM
New studio release coming: https://www.amazon.co.uk/NOT-DISTURB-Van-Graaf-Generator/dp/B01HD34PSO/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1468173199&sr=1-1&keywords=van+der+graaf+generator

Holy crap, and there's this too: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Live-Rockpalast-Peter-Hammill-Group/dp/B00FU5G6BM/ref=pd_bxgy_15_img_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=10SYXNRJYFMRWJWFF2A6
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: stanton on July 11, 2016, 02:18:54 AM


Holy crap, and there's this too: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Live-Rockpalast-Peter-Hammill-Group/dp/B00FU5G6BM/ref=pd_bxgy_15_img_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=10SYXNRJYFMRWJWFF2A6

Great, than I can replace the VHS tape of this concert.

Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on July 11, 2016, 01:30:13 PM
Great, than I can replace the VHS tape of this concert.
You've already got the CD too? How did you do that?
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: stanton on July 12, 2016, 04:35:29 AM
You've already got the CD too? How did you do that?

I have a several concerts from PH and VdGG on CD or (now) on MP3 or (then) on Audio-Tape. From time to time I love to listen to this lo-fi mono stuff. There is an incredible energy in the live versions, and the Hammill motto of "controlled chaos" comes through very lively.

Actually, if one wanted, one could get every concert that was recorded by hardcore fans as a bootleg CD-R release with cover. Many of these are a bit difficult to listen too though.
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on July 12, 2016, 03:30:07 PM
Actually, if one wanted, one could get every concert that was recorded by hardcore fans as a bootleg CD-R release with cover. Many of these are a bit difficult to listen too though.
I have all the officially released Hammill live stuff, and a lot of the VDGG. I've seen Hammill live only once, in Tokyo. I think his live stuff is ALWAYS better than what he does in the studio (although his studio work is good too). I like getting recordings/videos of his live work, but there's so much of it that there's no reason to settle for sub-par releases.
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on October 24, 2016, 12:26:55 PM
New studio release coming: https://www.amazon.co.uk/NOT-DISTURB-Van-Graaf-Generator/dp/B01HD34PSO/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1468173199&sr=1-1&keywords=van+der+graaf+generator
CD in da house!
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: stanton on October 26, 2016, 04:36:20 AM
CD in da house!

And? Do you like it?
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on October 26, 2016, 08:43:38 AM
I've only had time to listen to the first 2 tracks, but yeah, so far, so good.
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on June 01, 2018, 01:52:02 PM
Wow! https://www.amazon.com/Live-Rockpalast-2005-Leverkusen/dp/B07CNYTQ5B/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1527884648&sr=8-1&keywords=van+der+graaf+generator+rockpalast

Ordered!
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: stanton on June 02, 2018, 05:36:13 AM
Yes, it's great.
I love this recording. It is so much more powerful than the RFH concert on the Real Time CD. Unfortunately basically the same track list, only 3 songs less. sigh ...

... and I was there (and the group did not survive this)
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on June 02, 2018, 10:35:49 AM
Yes, it's great.
I love this recording. It is so much more powerful than the RFH concert on the Real Time CD. Unfortunately basically the same track list, only 3 songs less. sigh ...

... and I was there (and the group did not survive this)
The point is, you get the video with this release. (Btw, did you get the Japanese release of Real Time with the extra disc? Why not, sucker!)
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: stanton on June 02, 2018, 11:09:49 AM
The point is, you get the video with this release. (Btw, did you get the Japanese release of Real Time with the extra disc? Why not, sucker!)

Cause I ducked?

Really an extra disc? What's on it?

Of course I knew that I will also get the video, but that (and complete) was already easy to get on DVD-R via trading or as a download. And I had it already on VHS since, since ... I don't remember, but more than 10 years.
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: stanton on June 02, 2018, 11:16:01 AM
Ok, I checked Wiki. Strange, but I'm not sure if I ever heard if these Jap CD. Of course I have several bootlegs from that tour, and at least every track played once.

Are these extra tracks quality recordings, or taken from the numerous bootlegs?
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on June 04, 2018, 12:03:08 PM
Ok, I checked Wiki. Strange, but I'm not sure if I ever heard if these Jap CD. Of course I have several bootlegs from that tour, and at least every track played once.

Are these extra tracks quality recordings, or taken from the numerous bootlegs?
https://web-cache.chocomaru.com/pc5/jplayer_ssl.html?QU665&%7Ers20ncs02&EJ66464372&667&nrrv%3C%29%29qqq%28gkg%7Cih%28ei%28lv&734%3E75%3E%3E01

My recollection is that these are from sound checks prior to the shows. It may well be that these have been widely bootlegged.
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on June 04, 2018, 12:06:42 PM
Wow! https://www.amazon.com/Live-Rockpalast-2005-Leverkusen/dp/B07CNYTQ5B/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1527884648&sr=8-1&keywords=van+der+graaf+generator+rockpalast

Ordered!
Discs in da house! As the wife will be away this evening, this is definitely going on the Jenkins Home Entertainment Console at a very loud setting.
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: stanton on June 04, 2018, 12:12:33 PM


My recollection is that these are from sound checks prior to the shows. It may well be that these have been widely bootlegged.

No, I asked in a Yahoo VDGG Message group.
Of course the 4th Track is from a soundcheck, but that is not a song, but instead, well: "Gibberish"  13:37 (recorded Amsterdam soundcheck, 23 July 2005)

The other 3 are from 3 different concerts and are "professional recording although from other venues and possibly mixed by someone else (PH not HB??) But excellent sound"

Means that at least 3 more concerts of that tour were recorded, and only Theme One and La Rossa are not released officially. So far.

Btw I don't like much of the last VdGG album.


And I go to a Hammill solo concert this July. He plays in a small town in a church. Maybe I take the chance and become religious ...
 
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: stanton on June 04, 2018, 12:17:03 PM
Discs in da house! As the wife will be away this evening, this is definitely going on the Jenkins Home Entertainment Console at a very loud setting.

If you want her to stay away forever VdGG played loud might help ...
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on June 05, 2018, 05:32:08 AM

Btw I don't like much of the last VdGG album.
Why so?
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on July 31, 2018, 07:07:29 AM
Came across this recently and got a copy. I like it. https://www.amazon.com/Another-Day-DAVID-JACKSON-CROSS/dp/B079851VNN/
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on March 28, 2019, 08:49:39 AM
Hammill live box "Not Yet Not Now" dispatched! Waiting patiently . . . .
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: stanton on April 08, 2019, 04:25:53 AM
There's more stuff coming which could cost  a lot of money:

https://www.cherryred.co.uk/product/van-der-graaf-generator-the-aerosol-grey-machine-50th-anniversary-edition-2cd-gatefold-180-gram-lp-7-inch-single-limited-edition-deluxe-boxset/

Hmm, a LP and a Single which I do not need, but I like to have the rest ...

... and the complete K stuff:

https://burningshed.com/store/madfish/peter-hammill-with-the-k-group_the-k-box_boxset?filter_tag=peter%20hammill&filter_category_id=263

A few unreleased tracks amongst stuff I already own.

Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on April 09, 2019, 09:10:06 AM
There's more stuff coming which could cost  a lot of money:

https://www.cherryred.co.uk/product/van-der-graaf-generator-the-aerosol-grey-machine-50th-anniversary-edition-2cd-gatefold-180-gram-lp-7-inch-single-limited-edition-deluxe-boxset/

Hmm, a LP and a Single which I do not need, but I like to have the rest ...

45 quid! Uh, I'll think about it . . .
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: stanton on September 15, 2021, 01:30:12 PM
Total Graaf: https://www.discogs.com/de/Van-Der-Graaf-Generator-The-Charisma-Years-1970-1978/release/19216366

Big, bigger biggest 20 disc box (17 CDs, 2 audio Blu Rays, 1 video Blu Ray) with all 8 charisma albums (from 1970 to 1978) very well remastered, and all the known bonus material also. The 4 albums of which the multi tracks still exist, were also remixed by Steven Tayler for stereo and for 5.1. sound. The video Blu contains (nearly) all existing footage which was aired on TV in the 70s.

And a complete concert from Paris 1976, which was recorded for French radio, was discovered. And one more BBC session from 1970 was also so far unreleased, at least officially.

Everything on it? Well, most, but still a few things are missing ...
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on September 15, 2021, 05:55:55 PM
Hey, thanks! Very tempting. The set itself isn't so much, but the added shipping is a killer.

UPDATE: I just found out that amazon US has this with free shipping. Ordered!
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: stanton on September 16, 2021, 12:38:55 AM
I bought mine for 129 Euros, that's really cheap for such a big deluxe set. Only the German Amazon will not ship it before the 24th, like in the other EU countries, while the Brits and the Americans can already enjoy it.

Some of the still missing things are:

1. The second version of the single version of Refugees (released on CD once on the I Prophesy Disaster compilation)

2. The Shel Talmy mix of The Least We Can Do (once released accidentally on LP)

3. Theme 1 / The Dambuster's March which is the 4th and last track of the BBC In Concert from 1971, and has recently surfaced in good audio quality.

4. The songs from Time Vaults, at least the better sounding ones of them would have been a nice addition
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on September 16, 2021, 04:35:46 AM
Here's a review on the amazon page. One bloke's opinion and all that:

Quote
Reviewed in the United States on September 11, 2021
A friend of mine recently acquired this set and I had the fortune or misfortune of hearing the first five studio albums. All sound different but different is not better when the original first UK editions sound far superior! Some things are much too high in the mix now such as percussion for example. The power and punch of the original music is replaced by an insane clarity which saps the life out of the music. The dynamics are replaced with a flat sound. Admittedly I only listened to 5 CDs but since they didn't get those 5 right I have no desire to hear the rest. I was going to order this set next week but now it's removed from my want list. To add insult to injury the packaging is dreadful with no individual CD cases meaning both the CD slots and the CD themselves are subject to wear and tear. Order at your own risk.

This doesn't put me off the set, which is cheap enough to take a chance on. Also, I don't know what to make of "an insane clarity"; is that supposed to be bad?

My set won't arrive for 10 days. I don't know how I'm going to be able to sleep nights waiting.
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on September 17, 2021, 02:22:19 PM
My set won't arrive for 10 days. I don't know how I'm going to be able to sleep nights waiting.
The set shipped! Maybe it will arrive early.
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: stanton on September 18, 2021, 04:44:02 AM
Well,  I have read only positive things about the set, very positive actually. Even from those who think that the 2005 Remasters were "horribly bad". Apart from the Remastering also the remixes are mostly praised.


Jim Christopulos, co-author of Van der Graaf Generator - The Book seems to like it:

"My own thoughts so far? I still have to pinch myself that this exists. It?s such a big beast and there is so much love and respect poured into this set. It?s just nice to see. In a recent interview I did with Peter, I mentioned how so many bands of that era have sort of fallen by the wayside but VdGG?s stock continues to rise. They are truly respected and revered by fans, critics, and historians, and that respect just seems to grow and intensify. And I think that the attention, thought, and love that went into this project is indicative of the band?s importance ? kudos to Universal for greenlighting this (I mean, wow? Virgin / Universal? that ain?t no little indie that?s throwing down for this). But real kudos to guys like Stephen W Tayler (whose remixes are garnering universal acclaim from fans and media reviewers alike, with many expressing utter amazement), Phillip Smee (who is responsible for putting together the absolutely wonderful hardcover coffee table book, with assistance from Rupert Lloyd and a few others [namely me, Herman P, and Phil S? but, errrr, I?m not giving kudos to myself ? that would be weird]), and Ben Weisman w/remastering. Probably missing a few. But most of all, kudos to Mark Powell who sort of brain child-ed (not a word, folks) this whole thing. Without him, this most likely wouldn?t exist ? he put it all together, hunted down the rare vids, the BBC sessions, got everyone involved, and basically oversaw the whole thing. All of VdGG fandom owes him a big thanks.

Quick thoughts on the box itself. Still haven?t had time to get into the actual albums, except I did start with The Least the other night and it sounds *amazing*. On all the CD releases so far, ?Darkness? (a top 5 VdGG track for me) has never sounded as good as the vinyl, it?s just been muddy and not really happening. I could tell within the first few minutes that this remastering was a welcome revelation. Everything is crisp, clear, and opened up. Refugees and White Hammer also sounded so much better than previous CDs. I plan on listening to the stereo remixes this weekend and I just know (from about 50 things I?ve read online) that SWT?s work is going to be wonderful.

What little time I?ve had to devote to the box has so far been with the BBC stuff, the live Paris ?76 concert, and the video. The BBC stuff ? YES!!! FINALLY, the Sept ?71 BBC In Concert perf of Man Erg, W, and Killer in fantastic quality. This gig has been around but it?s never had primo sound (far from it) and here it finally is. It just rocks, the band?s on fire and Mark was able to ? after all this time ? locate a great sounding version. And there?s a *very* cool BBC ?70 interview with a young Peter Hammill before the band launch into a truncated ? but gloriously off the rails ? version of ?Killer.? Wonderful stuff. The Paris ?76 concert is a holy grail for me personally. After decades of listening to 70s VdGG gigs that were recorded onto a portable tape recorder from the audience, 10th generation (and even loving those), here is a full concert professionally recorded for radio of the classic four-piece in all their glory during the World Record tour. I?ve actually listened to it about four times when I should have been exploring the rest of the set. Sorry? after all these years, to finally have a really good recording of a 70s VdGG gig ? it?s just tough for me to not reach for that every time. And the video? it?s the best the ?70 Beat Club footage has ever looked. It?s the full screen (every other version cuts off a good chunk of the picture) and without the graphics, so you don?t have to see the band lineup obscuring Hammill?s face as he?s singing. The ?75 Godbluff footage is the clearest I?ve seen, fantastic stuff. I never noticed that you could actually *see* the theater audience in certain shots from the stage, and that one of the road crew is wearing a Godbluff tee. You can see all that now. And, the big (to me) coup is the Wondering vid which had previously only been available on YouTube in unwatchable (seriously) 122nd generation quality. This should never have been released by Universal prior to the box being released because it would have blown peoples? minds the first time they saw it as part of the box. But hey ho. And, also very cool, is the Austrian ?78 interview/perf by VdG at their last gig. This had been available in the past on old bootleg vhs tapes, but again with muddy unitnelligble sound and a 10th generation video dub. Here, it?s in pristine condition; I?d never seen it like this before and it?s fantastic.
So, a BIG 10 out of 10 from me so far and I feel like I?ve still only scratched the surface. Carry on then! "




Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on September 18, 2021, 08:54:59 AM
Thanks, I'm really looking forward to the set, which should arrive some time next week. Now, how can I get the wife out of the house for about 300 hours?
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: stanton on September 18, 2021, 12:15:44 PM
Just play the albums loud and louder, at best the live stuff. Then you will get a quick separation or love forever ...
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on September 20, 2021, 12:36:35 PM
In. Da. Haus!

Wow, DHL moved this really quickly from the UK to my doorstep. 4 days!
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: stanton on September 20, 2021, 03:18:49 PM
And I, having ordered it in June, have still to wait ...

... luckily I have already most of the tracks for impatient hearing.
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on September 20, 2021, 05:19:45 PM
The Paris ?76 concert is a holy grail for me personally. After decades of listening to 70s VdGG gigs that were recorded onto a portable tape recorder from the audience, 10th generation (and even loving those), here is a full concert professionally recorded for radio of the classic four-piece in all their glory during the World Record tour. I?ve actually listened to it about four times when I should have been exploring the rest of the set. Sorry? after all these years, to finally have a really good recording of a 70s VdGG gig ? it?s just tough for me to not reach for that every time.
Live stuff is usually what I most enjoy, so I also am starting with this. The concert is spread over 2 discs and I've just listened to the first one. The quality is excellent, the performances very good as well. Mrs. J came home before I could put on part two, so I'll get to the second disc tomorrow.
Title: Re: Van der Graaf Generator
Post by: dave jenkins on September 27, 2021, 08:56:38 PM
The amazon price has now doubled . . . and they don't even have it in stock. Glad I got mine when I did (thanks, stanton, for the heads up).