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Films of Sergio Leone => Other Films => Topic started by: KERMIT on July 31, 2004, 06:16:28 PM



Title: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: KERMIT on July 31, 2004, 06:16:28 PM
my favorite film is magnificent seven. saw it when i was twelve, in 1960.  sturges great action director from the old school.

performances by charles bronson in scene when he scolds little village kids who idolize him, "it is not the gunfighter, but the villiger's themselves that carry the true weight."  yul brynner had a flair like no other at any role he played.....which brings me to a film called "catlow" directed by sam wanamaker from the novel by louis l'amour.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066900/
gleeful yul brynner plays a super-outlaw of the old west in a quest for 2 million in gold.  
could anyone please inform me if i can get this on DVD ?
jeff corey is at his usual best as are some other surprises by character actors, who's work,  we've come to know and love.  lol  ;)



Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Belkin on July 31, 2004, 07:47:11 PM
my favorite film is magnificent seven. saw it when i was twelve, in 1960.  sturges great action director from the old school.

performances by charles bronson in scene when he scolds little village kids who idolize him, "it is not the gunfighter, but the villiger's themselves that carry the true weight."  yul brynner had a flair like no other at any role he played.....which brings me to a film called "catlow" directed by sam wanamaker from the novel by louis l'mour.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066900/
gleeful yul brynner plays a super-outlaw of the old west in a quest for 2 million in gold.  
could anyone please inform me if i can get this on DVD ?
jeff corey is at his usual best as are some other surprises by character actors, who's work,  we've come to know and love.  lol  ;)


Oh, my friend, are you in for a treat! You love CATLOW and MR. BRYNNER! Check out "veteran actor and his CV" in GENERAL DICUSSION section! HE IS THE MAN!!!!! ;)


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: KERMIT on August 01, 2004, 08:31:45 PM
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/vanhusen/YulBrynner1.jpg  ;D


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: cigar joe on November 01, 2004, 04:46:17 AM
Watched this the other day rented a  :'( unfortunately pan and scan VHS but enjoyed it none the less. It was great to see Coburn, Bronson, and Wallach, do their thing along with McQueen and Brenner. It has a great old time type score and was better than a lot of the typical John Wayne westerns that keep cropping up on the movie channels.

I especially enjoyed Eli's "Calverra" character you could definitely see early Tuco developing, I think he's even wearing the same silver rings, check it out if you can.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: The 4th Gunfighter on November 01, 2004, 11:39:53 AM
I too just saw this movie in the last month, and was surprised at how good it was, and has very quickly become one of my favorite westerns. The characters are great, and story while simple, is executed perfectly. The last line of "only the farmers won - they are like the earth itselft" is very fitting and aptly describes the profession of the hired gun.

This is of course helped by the A-List cast - Brynner was a star and excellent (if sometimes a little bland) as the leader, McQeen is great as his second (& his contrast) and a scene-stealer, and of course Wallach shows how great an actor he is, even he is playing his standard Hispanic/Latin bandit (which I read that he played numerous times early in his career to establish his rep, including GBU), he still manages to do something unique in each role. Bronson manages to show his acting chops even though he got very little screen time, as both he & Coburn were under-utlized in the movie despite promising characters.

This IMO is a quintessential western, and definitely a must-see if you are a fan of the genre, Spaghetti or otherwise.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Two Kinds of ... on November 01, 2004, 03:37:15 PM
One of my very favorite non-Leone Westerns.    Great, great flick, and along with the Bud B. films continued to development of what Sergio would take to the moon.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: KERMIT on November 01, 2004, 10:38:42 PM
I too just saw this movie in the last month, and was surprised at how good it was, and has very quickly become one of my favorite westerns. The characters are great, and story while simple, is executed perfectly. The last line of "only the farmers won - they are like the earth itselft" is very fitting and aptly describes the profession of the hired gun.

This is of course helped by the A-List cast - Brynner was a star and excellent (if sometimes a little bland) as the leader, McQeen is great as his second (& his contrast) and a scene-stealer, and of course Wallach shows how great an actor he is, even he is playing his standard Hispanic/Latin bandit (which I read that he played numerous times early in his career to establish his rep, including GBU), he still manages to do something unique in each role. Bronson manages to show his acting chops even though he got very little screen time, as both he & Coburn were under-utlized in the movie despite promising characters.

This IMO is a quintessential western, and definitely a must-see if you are a fan of the genre, Spaghetti or otherwise.
right on target cj, 2 kinds of... & 4th gunfighter. ;)  i like the scene when the seven realize they've been "dissed" by calverra and decide the situation the've been placed in has become a question of honor. when they've been paid they see the job through.  

the discussion banardo/bronson has with the village children is priceless although later one of them gets in the way and causes bronson to get fatally shot   :-X

calverra's last words to yul having shot him, remind me of frank's last words:

calverra : "why did you come back" ? { big nod} sort of like frank's : "who ARE you" ? { bigger nod } lol
cj bats a thousand. same two silver rings tuco would wear 6 years later. lol


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Two Kinds of ... on November 04, 2004, 03:27:05 PM
This thread got me psyched and I'm watching it again for the first time in a few years.  This flick was cool before Sergio showed how cool a wester could be.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Film-Junkie Zach on November 17, 2004, 12:11:49 PM
I Love The Magnificent Seven! It's one of the best westerns ever made and one of the best remakes ever made.

My Favorite Character out of The Magnificent Seven is Bernado O'Reilly(Charles Bronson). He's so supercool. I love the theme song. It's in the weed documentary GRASS and Michael Moore's 2004 film Fahrenheit 9/11.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Cusser on December 20, 2004, 12:09:29 PM
OK, what do others think:would Magnificent Seven have been a better film if Calvera (Wallach) had NOT returned the firearms to the Seven, that they would've snuck back, overpowered some Calvera men to get THEIR weapons, and then do battle?


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: indio on December 21, 2004, 11:23:31 AM
Yeah you could be right!
if you like the mag.7 check out the original. Kurosawa's 7 samurai by far a better movie. lead actor Mifune is amazing even Clint is a fan.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Belkin on December 21, 2004, 11:46:54 AM
OK, what do others think:would Magnificent Seven have been a better film if Calvera (Wallach) had NOT returned the firearms to the Seven, that they would've snuck back, overpowered some Calvera men to get THEIR weapons, and then do battle?
With you there, Cusser. Always thought it was a major flaw in an almost perfect movie!


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: JJ_Snakes on December 21, 2004, 03:13:59 PM
The major flaw in "Magnificent Seven" is Horst Buchholz and that stupid dance of his what he does somewhere in the film. Everything else I can even tolerate, although it has some other flaws too. :P


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Cusser on December 21, 2004, 05:02:25 PM
Also, speaking of Horst Buchholz, I must've seen this film a half-dozen times (starting as a little kid) until I realized that his character was supposed to be a Mexican, or a Mexican-American (OK, his character was called Chico, should've been a big clue)?  Couldn't Sturges have cast a more-hispanic actor, or at least one without the Germanic Horst Buchholz name?


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: KERMIT on December 21, 2004, 07:24:31 PM
Also, speaking of Horst Buchholz, I must've seen this film a half-dozen times (starting as a little kid) until I realized that his character was supposed to be a Mexican, or a Mexican-American (OK, his character was called Chico, should've been a big clue)?  Couldn't Sturges have cast a more-hispanic actor, or at least one without the Germanic Horst Buchholz name?
buchholz, i read somewhere, wasn't a day at the beach to work with.  


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Tim on February 05, 2005, 09:14:52 PM
  I never thought that was a flaw in the movie.  While they're still in the village, Calvera whispers in Chris' ear that its "all for show, so the villagers know who is boss."  As he points out, he never wanted to kill them.  Just another reason Calvera is one of my all-time favorite villains. 

  The genuine surprise on his face as he lies dying on the porch is great.  "You came back.  A man like you.  Why?"  At the same time, I like Wallach's Calvera and always wince a bit when Chris shoots him.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Tim on February 05, 2005, 09:26:38 PM
  I read a funny review at imdb.com that said news didn't travel fast in the west.  Otherwise, why would all these gunfighters keep joining Chris in his adventures.  That got me thinking about all the different members of the seven and how many did die.

Magnificent Seven
Lived: Chris Adams, Vin, Chico
Died: Bernardo O'Reilly, Britt, Lee, and Harry Luck

Return of the Seven
Lived:  Chris, Vin, Chico, Colbee
Died:  Frank, Delgado, Manuel

Guns of the Magnificent Seven
Lived: Chris, Levi, Maximiliano
Died: Keno, Slater, Cassie, PJ

Magnificent Seven Ride
Lived: Chris, Noah, Skinner
Died: Pepe, Mackay, Drummond, Hayes

By my count, 15 of 23 of the different groups died.  Not to good of odds if you ask me.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: boardwalk_angel on April 03, 2005, 07:35:43 AM
This is one of my all time favorites... Not the best western ever made (although certainly a case can be made for it's being one of 'em).......but possibly the most fun. It really shouldn't have worked...you got Brynner..a bald, Russian/Mongolian emigre... as a gunfighter of "Cajun" heritage......McQueen... a "TV Cowboy"...whose few screen credits included a starring role in "The Blob", as your second lead...the Lithuanian-American Bronson..at that time a relatively unknown actor , as a Mexican/Irish half breed....a German actor named Horst as a young Latino known as "Chico"......Vladimir Sokoloff..a well known character actor born in Moscow as a wise old Mexican peasant........and Wallach..a Jewish method actor from the Broadway stage and TV as a ruthless Mexican bandit......... and it was so rousing..& so much fun..w/ that superb score...& it becomes a classic...who woulda thunk it?
One scene that sticks out for me is..after Brynner, as 'Chris'..& McQueen, as ' Vin' have driven the hearse back down from the cemetery..a guy comes up & offers Chris a drink...and asks "Where ya from"?........answered w/ a thumb pointing back over the shoulder............."Where ya headed"?....... a wordless point ahead. A simple scene...yet positively resonant & memorable...& defining. ......................
It recently played on the big screen at a local revival theater..& I'm still kicking myself for missing it.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Groggy on July 27, 2005, 04:07:04 PM
To be perfectly honest. . . I'm not that big a fan of this movie.  IMO, it's more of a collection to good-to-great scenes than a great movie.  The cast is spectacular, but the only characters I really liked were Vaughn, Coburn, and Wallach. 

I personally think that a much better film of this type is "The Professionals".  Maybe it's because there's no weenie newcomer; just Lee Marvin, Woody Strode, Burt Lancaster, and Robert Ryan, older professionals who don't whine but kick ass and take names.  Those guys are real men's men, working for money and not pretending to work for anything else.  (Plus the gunfights were better and Claudia was in the film. ;D) It's more of a personal preference than anything else, to be sure.  Plus the screenplay was better.  I can name off the top of my head maybe five or six lines from "The Magnificent Seven", and probably twice that from "The Professionals".  Some particular favorites of mine:

"Do I have to kill you to prove I like you?"

"I wouldn't do that!  My friend would die of a terrible headache - and so would you!"

Dullworth: "Hey Chiquita!  How's your love life!"
Chiquita: "Terrific!  You want some?"
Dullworth: "Do you EVER say no?"
Chiquita: "Never!"
Dullworth: "Anybody?"
Chiquita: "EVERYbody!" ;D  :-*

And the classic:
Fardan: "So what's on your mind besides 100-proof women, 90-proof whiskey and 14-karat gold?"
Dullworth: "Amigo. . . you just wrote my epitaph!"

I will not deny the importance or influence of "The Magnificent Seven", and I am in no way saying it's a bad film.  I just can't see it as being one of the greatest Westerns of all time.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: cigar joe on July 27, 2005, 04:13:10 PM
Great lines Groggy, did you see the special edition? If you did what are the extras like?


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Groggy on July 27, 2005, 04:19:03 PM
Great lines Groggy, did you see the special edition? If you did what are the extras like?

Actually I just watched it again today.  ;D  The extras are nothing special: they have a very brief featurette which is about six minutes long, and a longer one (about 33 minutes) with interviews of Claudia, Marie Gomez (Chiquita), and the late Conrad L. Hall, plus the original trailer.  Some interesting information is relayed, but nothing you wouldn't expect.

Sorry to drag this slightly off-topic, I was just saying how I felt on this subject.  "The Professionals" is certainly one of the most underrated Westerns of all-time if you ask me, and I think anyone who considers themselves a Western fan should see it.  I'd definitely recommend the "Seven" too, no doubt, I just prefer this one.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: cigar joe on July 27, 2005, 04:26:36 PM
I bought the older DVD about 6 months ago, I think its a great western, and if you haven't seen it do so.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: titoli on July 28, 2005, 03:18:14 AM
I must re-watch the both of them. seven has just been rereleased in a cheap dvd newsagency edition, at 5 euros. Watched it when it was first released and I thought it was magnificent (but I was not even 5 years old). Watch it again on tv 20 years later and wasn't so enthusiastic, if I remember well, mainly for a problem of rhythm. I mean, all of this apology  of the farmers slows down the pace, even though it amplifies the effect of the action when it starts. But I should re-watch it, of course, and will.
About the Professionals, it was hailed here in Italy by some as a masterpiece. I saw it on tv a pair of decades ago and was disappointed: the same rhetorical twists of the classic western but brought up to date, exactly as it would happen with The Wild Bunch.  plan to watch it again too, though I know that my first impressions of a movie are rarelly different from later ones.   


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Groggy on July 28, 2005, 06:21:25 AM
(Of course, all of the below is my opinion.  Very long though, so read at your own risk.)

Well Titoli, for me a film usually gets better the second or third time I see it, if I didn't like it the first time.  I've seen both "The Magnificent Seven" and "The Professionals" three times, and on one that idea has held true, the other, not so much.

I don't think I liked "The Magnificent Seven" any more on subsequent viewings than I originally did.  As I said in my original post on this thread, it's a collection of great scenes, more than it is a great movie.  In other words, not the sum of its parts. 

One of the major problems could be that since there are seven (or eight, including Calvera) main characters, the characterization is spread a bit thin (though to be fair, "The Professionals", even though it only had four main characters, suffered from this as well, giving Robert Ryan and to a lesser extent Woody Strode relatively short shrift).  Eli Wallach's Calvera is the best and most interesting character, because of a great proto-Tuco performance by Wallach and some great writing as well.  Yul Brynner and Steve McQueen were cool but not particularly memorable IMO.  Robert Vaughn, James Coburn, and Charles Bronson were excellent characters despite relatively little screen time.  Brad Dexter, and especially Horst Buchholz, were crappy characters (though more due to the writing than the actors) who could easily have been dropped, and arguably would've made the movie better.  With the exception of Vladimir Sokoloff as the old man, none of the Mexicans made much of an impression on me, and some were downright annoying.

The following scenes I think were all classics that make me see why most Western fans love this movie:

- Any scene with Calvera (which would mean a lot would be repeated)
- The shotgun on a hearse bit
- Britt's introduction
- Chris and Vinn's dialogue with the Old Man
- The first fight (particularly the dialogue between Calvera and the Seven)
- The discussion of the ethics of gunfighting
- Robert Vaughn's nightmare/freakout scene
- The scene after being disarmed by Calvera that they decide to go back
- The final gunfight (or most of it anyway)
- O'Reilly's death scene

There were quite a few scenes which I disliked, too, namely:

- Any scene which prominently featured Horst Buchholz (except the scene where he sneaks into Calvera's camp), especially those which also feature Rosendo Monteros as Petra
- Most of the scenes with the whiny Mexican kids who follow O'Reilly everywhere
- Harry Luck's death scene (way too corny)

I also personally think that the wide-open Mexican desert of "The Professionals" is far preferable to the limited set (mostly the border town and the village) of the "Seven".  I also think that Remington Shotguns and automatic pistols are more exciting weapons that just six-shooters 'n' Winchesters, but again that's a personal preference.  ;D

I first saw "The Professionals" on a small TV while my brother was playing on the computer in the background, which may explain why I didn't think it was great initially.  ;D Second time I saw it on DVD, my opinion wasn't really improved.  When I rewatched it yesterday, however, I enjoyed it a lot more than I had either of the first two times.  I'm not going to go into a whole lot more about why I prefer "The Professionals", because I think I did a pretty good job of that in my initial post.  Sorry for so long of a post.  :P


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: titoli on July 28, 2005, 06:51:50 AM
The only two scenes I remember of M7 is the double duel of Coburn (and that stroke me also when I was a small kid) and, in the negative, Bronson dialogue with the kid (am i remembering well?) about the father's cowardice. This second kind of "preaching" scene is, I think, an exemplification of why SW (which do, generally, without them) may have an edge on american westerns. Indisputable masterpieces like Shane are marred by them and, actually, I can't understand why the americans didn't get  hip to them like Leone did (which didn't prevent him, BTW, by doing the same mistake -  though, thank god, on a smaller scale - in FOD with the mexican family to which Eastwood gives his help).


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Groggy on July 28, 2005, 07:00:05 AM
I agree with you on the preaching. . . so many great Westerns are soiled or even in some cases ruined by them.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Cusser on July 28, 2005, 08:55:47 AM
Eli does some of the audio commentary on the Magnificent Seven DVD.  The soundtrack album (never released until just a few years ago) is on CD, I have both.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Bill Carson on August 01, 2005, 01:47:23 PM
THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN! Absolutely Beautiful! a brilliant film that all fans of Cinema MUST see even if they don't dig Westerns, American or European. Yeah Cusser, I have that 'Special Edition' Soundtrack CD; I bought it around the same time as THE GREAT ESCAPE CD which was released the same year.  I especially liked the way that each character in the film had a history of his own; Robert Vaughn was traumatized by some past events and Brad Dexter is funny as the guy who's just in it for the money. Coburn was particularly super-cool as knife expert Britt. 

 the sequels sucked. and I haven't even bothered watching the TV series. 


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Bill Carson on August 05, 2005, 12:24:36 PM
One of the three Villagers who go to the border and enlist Chris and the boys was played by John Alonzo who went on to be the cinematographer for Brian De Palma's SCARFACE.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Groggy on August 05, 2005, 03:56:13 PM
One of the three Villagers who go to the border and enlist Chris and the boys was played by John Alonzo who went on to be the cinematographer for Brian De Palma's SCARFACE.

And Emilio Fernandez worked on the film as an assistant director.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: titoli on September 11, 2005, 06:48:31 PM
I still have 20 minutes to go of the movie, but really, what a disappointment. I could make a hundred observations but I limit myself to some.
Where is located the mexican village? In the Swiss Alps? How come that these real mexicans look less peones than the ones operating in SW? Great Wallach, great McQueen (I wonder why he did have to wait some years before becoming a superstar).


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: cigar joe on September 11, 2005, 07:14:06 PM
Quote
Where is located the mexican village? In the Swiss Alps? How come that these real mexicans look less peones than the ones operating in SW?

Mexican cinema goers were so upset  from the depiction of dirty peons in the film "Vera Cruze" that they tore out the seats in theaters and thew them at the screen. The Mexican Government required Director Sturgis to have a Mexican censor on the set to make sure that the peons were shown in a good light with clean white peasant smocks etc., etc. They also required some script changes.

I just watched it again today myself.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: titoli on September 12, 2005, 08:36:08 AM
Can't imagine what must have happened in mexican theatres which Fistful of Dollars was released... (it would also be fun to read contemporary mexican reviews).


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Bill Carson on September 14, 2005, 03:39:56 PM
man.... I think I'm due a viewing of this all-time classic! it's what 'two weeks off work' is all about!   8)


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: dave jenkins on January 19, 2006, 11:06:57 PM
The new special edition of The Magnificent Seven is a delight. As DVD Beaver has shown, the new transfer isn't much of an improvement over the old ( see comparisons at http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews20/magnificent_seven_dvd_review.htm), but the extras are all worth having. Two audio commentaries, one by Frayling! A production history doc (from 2001), a recent interview with Frayling, a very well done appreciation of the score (which we are taken through sequencially) and a look at a linen book of production stills from the film (which is commented upon by Eli Wallach). Fear not, Frayling-haters, Sir Christopher approaches the film as a fan (as he points out, the lead character is named "Chris").

The film itself does not compare favorably with Kurosawa's original, but readers of this board who have never seen it will want to view a pre-Tuco Wallach, a pre-Harmonica Bronson, and a pre-Mallory Coburn, all in the same picture. But can it be that there really are people who have never seen the film? According to the documentary, the film is the second-most shown film on American television (it doesn't mention the one most shown: would that be It's A Wonderful Life?)


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Tim on January 20, 2006, 09:38:56 PM
  I was tempted to pick this dvd up, but I'm pretty happy with the old special edition I bought a couple of years ago.  Maybe I'll wait till the new SE is in the bargain bin and then pick it up.

  As for the movie, I don't think its fair to compare it to Kurosawa's original.  The basic storyline is the same, but the execution is very different.  And as John Carpenter says in an interview on the dvd," The Magnificent Seven may not be the best western ever made, but it is definitely the most fun."  I tend to agree with the comment.

  And who is brave enough to mention on this board that they haven't seen The Magnificent Seven?  I know this is the Sergio Leone board, but this is a must-see western.  Anyone?


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Leone Admirer on January 21, 2006, 07:31:54 AM
Same here Tim, the original SE does me fine and I'm not really tempted to pick up this new collectors edition.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: cigar joe on January 21, 2006, 07:34:04 AM
Same here with me also the DVD I picked up was lass that a year old then the SE came out, lol.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: boardwalk_angel on August 27, 2006, 03:01:39 PM
The Magnificent Seven  (1960)                       

                                         (http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/324/ldmagnsevenwsea6.jpg)

 Directed by
John Sturges

Yul Brynner
Steve McQueen
Charles Bronson
Horst Buchholz
James Coburn 
Eli Wallach
Vladimir Sokoloff
Brad Dexter
Robert Vaughn





Recipe for a classic?


First, secure the rights to a classic, critically acclaimed Samurai film...made 6 yrs earlier.....set it in the old west.........cast your lead w/ a bald, Russian/Mongolian emigre...pass him off as a gunfighter of "Cajun" heritage......

.....throw in a "TV Cowboy"...whose few screen credits included a starring role in "The Blob", as your second lead...
........a relatively unknown Lithuanian-American actor as a Mexican/Irish half breed....
......a German actor named Horst as a young Latino known as "Chico"......
.......a well known character actor born in Moscow as a wise old Mexican peasant........
.....and a Jewish method actor from the Broadway stage and TV as a ruthless Mexican bandit........& waddya get? Not the best western ever made (although certainly a case can be made for it's being one of 'em).......but possibly the most fun.

It worked...maybe because it was so rousing..& so much fun..w/ that superb score..that you just want it to work..need it to work...& let it take you wherever it leads. Numerous wonderful scenes .. One that sticks out for me is..after Chris & Vin have driven the hearse back down from the cemetery..a guy comes up & offers Chris a drink...and asks "Where ya from"?........answered w/ a thumb pointing back over the shoulder............."Where ya headed"?....... a wordless point ahead. A simple scene...yet resonant & memorable...& defining.

Very much a "Hollywood" western......but when was it ever done better? .....Consistently colorful and exciting....wonderful characters....often eloquent... The total package is a great adventure.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 27, 2006, 03:05:32 PM
First time seeing this Boardwalk? It's a great movie. Our old friend Tuco played Calvera perfectly.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: boardwalk_angel on August 27, 2006, 03:16:14 PM
First time seeing this Boardwalk?

oh..no...
I've seen it many times...including on the BIG screen....although I had to pass up an opportunity to see it again in a theater last summer.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: franksgrandson on August 27, 2006, 04:13:16 PM
this great movie will never leave my top ten westerns the cast is perfect.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Groggy on August 27, 2006, 04:14:14 PM
I've said before, I'm not terribly fond of this film.  It's got some great scenes but isn't the sum of its parts IMO.  And like I've said, the only characters I really like are Britt, Bernardo, and Lee (and Calvera, but he's not one of the seven).


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: boardwalk_angel on August 27, 2006, 04:25:02 PM
the only characters I really like are Britt, Bernardo, and Lee (and Calvera, but he's not one of the seven).

Good for you, Robert Vaughn-wise...I'd say. Not many people would pick Lee as one of their favorites...seeing past the other glamour roles to a very good performance.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Groggy on August 27, 2006, 04:32:55 PM
Well I think he's an interesting character because he's the only one of the Seven who comes across as vulnerable.  Now I know the movie was meant to "humanize" gunfighters, but really, all of the characters pretty much came across as supermen (except Chico, but he was so annoying I couldn't even pretend to like him), particularly Brynner and McQueen (McQueen alone must shoot about thirty guys in the two big shootouts).  Lee was a very flawed character who was driven out of his mind by his life experiences and tries to hide his overwhelming fear behind a veil of aloofness.  Plus Vaughn's performance is excellent, there's that too.  ;)


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Groggy on August 27, 2006, 04:54:31 PM
Brad Dexter was pretty bad too, I thought his character was obnoxious and too self-consciously "cool".  But that's just my opinion, and his death scene was lame (at least the other guys went down fighting).


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 27, 2006, 05:01:35 PM
Brad Dexter was pretty bad too, I thought his character was obnoxious and too self-consciously "cool".  But that's just my opinion, and his death scene was lame (at least the other guys went down fighting).

I thought his death was stupid...but very powerful at the same time. He should've went out in style like his other comrades, but just look at Dexter's face when he's lying against the wall. It makes you feel so bad for him.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: dave jenkins on August 27, 2006, 05:11:09 PM
Good cast, good story, great score. Still, I prefer The Seven Samurai. The weakest part of M7 is the cheesy love story, and that was handled better in SS.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: boardwalk_angel on August 27, 2006, 06:17:20 PM
the cheesy love story

I loved it when Chico took off his gunbelt..& got down in the fields with Petra...with the lovely "Petra's Theme" playing in the background...always chokes me up a bit...bu-u-u-t......I guess...I might not get a lot of "Oh..yeah..me too"s around here.........he he :-*


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Cusser on August 27, 2006, 07:50:15 PM
Although I really like Magnificent Seven - its music score (as the Return of the Seven record) was my first record purchased, GBU was my second) - I was always bugged that Calvera gave the seven their guns back.  Yeah, I understand the reason, but think it would've been a better story if the seven had snuck back, overpowered some of Calvera's men to get their weapons, etc., to defeat Calvera.  By the way, it was only a few years ago that Magnificent Seven finally got its own CD soundtrack released.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: titoli on August 28, 2006, 01:39:22 AM
Quote
I was always bugged that Calvera gave the seven their guns back.  Yeah, I understand the reason, but think it would've been a better story if the seven had snuck back, overpowered some of Calvera's men to get their weapons, etc., to defeat Calvera.

Absolutely. That twist of the plot makes it all even more implausible and childish of what already it is. And also make the 7 look  worse because they show not gratitude.
 I wonder what would have happened in a SW: the 7 would have been tortured by Calvera's men, some might have even ended dead before escape and return for vengeance.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: cigar joe on August 28, 2006, 05:11:24 AM
Quote
Absolutely. That twist of the plot makes it all even more implausible and childish of what already it is. And also make the 7 look  worse because they show not gratitude.
 I wonder what would have happened in a SW: the 7 would have been tortured by Calvera's men, some might have even ended dead before escape and return for vengeance.


Very True!


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Tim on August 28, 2006, 08:29:17 AM
  Calvera giving the seven back their guns added another dimension to his character, I thought.  Like he says, he doesn't want word of their deaths getting back across the border into Texas and having some of their firends hunt him and his gang down.  You can say it's somewhat cowardly, but I call it smart thinking.

  And also, he doesn't want to mess with his "good thing", ie; the village.  Calvera honestly believes the 7 won't come back to help this village which has betrayed them.  Why would they?  Looking at this from afar, I'd also add Calvera giving the guns back allows for that great scene where Britt says," Nobody throws me my guns and tells me to run."   


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Tuco the ugly on August 28, 2006, 08:38:45 AM
but does calvera really look like a man who can think of something like that?
or better is calvera capable of thinking at all?

-he didn't even recognize that chico wasn't a member of his gang(and he has been living with them for a few years now,alone in the mountains)...don't tell me that you wouldn't get to know them all better if you were living with them alone in the mountains for a couple of years...come on


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Tim on August 28, 2006, 08:43:58 AM
Quote
-he didn't even recognize that chico wasn't a member of his gang

  I completely agree with you there, tuco.  That's a major leap of faith to believe that Calvera wouldn't realize that Chico was one of the Seven and not his gang.  Sure it's dark and he's wearing a sombrero, but still, that was pretty nuts.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: titoli on August 28, 2006, 10:15:46 AM
So in the first confrontation Calvera was lucky none of the 7 got killed? Why didn't he think of possible reprisals then?
And really were there any people across the border willing to risk their life against a mexican wild bunch just to avenge people who had been killed because they had taken the parts of mexican peasants?
 It's already hard to believe that 7 gunslingers could care about taking the job at all for a pittance (in this respect the one who goes because he thinks there's an hidden treasure is the more believable of the group) but that a mexican gang leader could set free the group AND give them back their guns because they might have friend s willing to risk their live for free  is to stretch veridicity beyond tolerable limits. Sure it is a good chance for Coburn to vent that memeorable line, but that is just the kind of action a man like Calvera could expect from the Coburns once he gives them back their guns.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Tuco the ugly on August 28, 2006, 10:29:05 AM
So in the first confrontation Calvera was lucky none of the 7 got killed? Why didn't he think of possible reprisals then?
And really were there any people across the border willing to risk their life against a mexican wild bunch just to avenge people who had been killed because they had taken the parts of mexican peasants?
 It's already hard to believe that 7 gunslingers could care about taking the job at all for a pittance (in this respect the one who goes because he thinks there's an hidden treasure is the more believable of the group) but that a mexican gang leader could set free the group AND give them back their guns because they might have friend s willing to risk their live for free  is to stretch veridicity beyond tolerable limits. Sure it is a good chance for Coburn to vent that memeorable line, but that is just the kind of action a man like Calvera could expect from the Coburns once he gives them back their guns.



i agree
and coburn looks meaner even than calvera when he kills the poor fella in the beginning,only because he had a big mouth,and after what mcqueen and brynner contentedly agree that he is the wright man for the job(of defending the poor farmers) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Cusser on August 28, 2006, 12:28:10 PM
Maybe Calvera did not "call" Chico out as an outsider because Calvera was past date on doing his annual performance reviews for his men.....and was embarassed that he didn't know his subordinate's name...


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: dave jenkins on August 28, 2006, 03:46:02 PM
Reading this thread I can't help thinking: time for a remake! :D


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Groggy on August 28, 2006, 04:16:32 PM
Bruce Willis as Chris.  That's all I've got. . .

It seems to me more like the seven came back to the village for reasons of pride rather than "the goodness of their heart".  Would you go back after being betrayed by the village?  I know I wouldn't.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: titoli on August 28, 2006, 04:24:26 PM
Quote
Reading this thread I can't help thinking: time for a remake!


This is one I'd welcome. Why don't we write a screenplay? Will sure make a better job than those people 45 years ago.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Tuco the ugly on August 28, 2006, 05:09:10 PM
Robert Vaughn can play Lee again,
and Eli Wallach can play the old man


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Leone Admirer on August 29, 2006, 05:07:30 AM
The Magnificent Seven... hmm, I've seen it many times but it's a film I'm not overly keen on for some reason  :o


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: dave jenkins on August 29, 2006, 10:45:34 AM

This is one I'd welcome. Why don't we write a screenplay? Will sure make a better job than those people 45 years ago.
I want the villagers to turn out to be really evil in the end. Maybe they are concealing a terrible secret and they are willing to kill to protect it. Or maybe they just want to take over the bandits' loot (without paying off the mercenaries). Anyway, after taking out the bandits, the heroes have only done half the job: they still have to fight their way out of a town where every gun is turned against them.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Tim on August 29, 2006, 12:50:49 PM
Quote
I want the villagers to turn out to be really evil in the end. Maybe they are concealing a terrible secret and they are willing to kill to protect it.

  That sounds a little like Kurosawa's 7 Samurai, although somewhat more harsh.  I haven't seen it in awhile, but don't the samurai find old samurai armor in the village?  It just proves that the villagers have a darker past than you'd think.

  I do like your idea though, dave.  Definitely a more modern take on the story, with a good twist, a la The Usual Suspects.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: titoli on August 29, 2006, 01:32:03 PM
I'll watch me the Kurosawa again (already re-saw Yojimbo).
But of course the mexicans must be evil: otherwise why have them at all? The starting point can't be with the 7 going there for a pittance: they must be allured with something worthwhile, otherwise they could well find jobs as bodyguards or similar trades instead of going south of the border. For example they could convince them that Calvera's army owns a treasure made up of all the booties from the raids. 


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: dave jenkins on August 29, 2006, 05:52:41 PM
I'll watch me the Kurosawa again (already re-saw Yojimbo).
But of course the mexicans must be evil: otherwise why have them at all? The starting point can't be with the 7 going there for a pittance: they must be allured with something worthwhile, otherwise they could well find jobs as bodyguards or similar trades instead of going south of the border. For example they could convince them that Calvera's army owns a treasure made up of all the booties from the raids. 
Whatever. The beauty is they can promise anything as they don't intend to pay off.

Think about how sweet this concept is. The peons don't have weapons or they'd take on the outlaws themselves. They can't buy guns, they have no money. Again, just as in the original, it is easier to buy men than guns (you only have to promise to pay). After all the outlaws are dead, the villagers pick their bodies clean (scarfing up guns and ammo). Chris and the gang are taking a siesta after cleaning out the baddies, and don't notice that suddenly the town has gotten real quiet...


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: The Firecracker on August 29, 2006, 06:05:04 PM


Think about how sweet this concept is. The peons don't have weapons or they'd take on the outlaws themselves. They can't buy guns, they have no money. Again, just as in the original, it is easier to buy men than guns (you only have to promise to pay). After all the outlaws are dead, the villagers pick their bodies clean (scarfing up guns and ammo). Chris and the gang are taking a siesta after cleaning out the baddies, and don't notice that suddenly the town has gotten real quiet...

Yeah but should they make it out alive?
Or perhaps have a downer ending?


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Tuco the ugly on August 30, 2006, 08:10:39 AM
Yeah but should they make it out alive?
Or perhaps have a downer ending?

no,they must all die...we gotta give them at least a bit of dignity and honor


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Tuco the ugly on August 30, 2006, 08:17:10 AM
 + they realize that bernardo o'reilly is a 
    betrayer,because of his mexican blood he chooses to
    stand on the side of the farmers...and the money


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Jill on May 08, 2007, 07:27:32 AM
I love this film. It's not so artistic like The Seven Samurai, but a really good western.

My favourites are Bernardo (of course) and Britt (of coure too. He is James Coburn, and I love him). And naturally Calvera, Eli is ever great!  ;)

Remake? No, no, NO. Plaese.
If remake, ok...

But Bruce Willis could be a good Chris. He's not hair  ;D and he's a cool guy, see Pulp Fiction.

Others?

Hm. I'll like Benicio Del Toro as Calvera.

Vin: I don't know... there's no McQueen-like guys, they are all dead.  :'(

Chico: Ben Whislaw. He was a good psychopat, I think he's a talented young actor.

Britt: no idea. Nobody can be Coburn  :'( :'( :'(

Bernardo: Liam Neeson

Harry: Michael Madsen

Lee: I will like Tim Roth.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Ben Tyreen on March 12, 2008, 12:51:23 AM
 Browsing through videos at Youtube and came across this one.  Everyone seems to have done a cover of Elmer Bernstein's score from Mag7, but I thought this one was the best and the most unique.  Gotta love the bagpipes! ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-C-_YmdQhw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-C-_YmdQhw)


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: dave jenkins on May 25, 2009, 07:19:10 AM
I attended this: http://www.cinemaretro.com/index.php?/archives/3287-ROBERT-VAUGHN-AT-LINCOLN-CENTER-STEVE-MCQUEEN-TRIBUTE;-REFLECTS-ON-THE-MAGNIFICENT-SEVEN.html#extended

I found the print disappointing, it's got the same colors as the DVD, which must mean this film is long overdue for restoration. In his intro Vaughn said that after Casablanca, Mag7 is the film most shown of American TV. If so, that would make it (by one measure) the second-most popular film of all time for American audiences. Why then hasn't a restoration been done? It seems to me the movie could look a whole lot better.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Cusser on May 25, 2009, 09:52:52 AM
My take on Magnificent Seven.

I likely saw this as a kid with my dad, who loved westerns, when it came out (1960).  I definitely saw it on TV (B&W).  So as a kid M7 music, and music from "The Time Machine" (1960).  After Return of the Saven was released, a soundtrack record for that was made, extremely similar music.  Well, jump to late 1990s or early 2000s, both Magnificent Seven and Time Machine were (fianlly) released as soundtracks in U.S., on CDs, got them both.  So Return of the Seven was my First record ever in 1968, and GBU soundtrack was second.  I was extremely pissed that GBU soundtrack didn't include as much music as in the film, and that the stand-off music was different, so i was really grateful that the GDM CD with double tracks was released about 2001.  I have the M7 DVD, extras are pretty good.  Amazing how many of that cast went on to become BIG stars, and many repeated for director in Great Escape (another Bernstein score, and I have that record as well).  I like the film a lot, but think that I might have dumped the Seven in the desert WITHOUT their guns, and would've liked the Seven to jump some of Calverra's guys to obtain THEIR weapons, then stage their battle.  I know, it would've been slightly different, but I would've liked it that way.

See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45KAjt7v4t4&feature=related for Magnificent Seven sound, but it's a little different than the CD and I believe the fim, but a good offering.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: dave jenkins on May 25, 2009, 01:30:30 PM
I like the film a lot, but think that I might have dumped the Seven in the desert WITHOUT their guns, and would've liked the Seven to jump some of Calverra's guys to obtain THEIR weapons, then stage their battle.  I know, it would've been slightly different, but I would've liked it that way.
How about this: Calvera, no fool, gives the 7 back their weapons, but NOT their ammo (duh!). Chris tells the others they're going back anyway. "Without bullets, Chris, are you nuts?" Chris: "I have a cunning plan." The 7 go back to the village, commando-style. Using their empty weapons, they bluff a sentry--he's a bit dim and forgets they don't have ammo, or figures they found a way to get some, whatever. And of course Coburn has his knife, maybe they take him out that way. The sentry has enough ammo on him to give everyone at least one round. They force a showdown. Calvera swaggers out, "Very brave, for men without bullets." Chris shoots Calvera through the left eye, simultaneously, each of the seven take out a target they have selected. All the men then have to proceed hand-to-hand with the rest of the gang or until they can get more weapons and ammo. The extended killing sequence takes hours, the chick and the cute kids all get it.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Dust Devil on August 11, 2010, 10:51:44 AM
Re-watched it after a couple of years... As it's been said already: fun, but far from great. It's one of those movies that are very entertaining if you don't start analyzing them (ehm, which one isn't?). The characters (all of them) are a joke, albeit entertaining. When the rhythm slows down after the first hour or so it gets mediocre, coincidentally, it's when they start 'thinking' and 'reflecting' more than necessary. The ending (and what proceeds) less than satisfactory.

It's still a classic, but yeah, a remake wouldn't hurt at all.


For the good old times: between 7 and 7.5 out of 10


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: T.H. on May 12, 2011, 10:53:38 AM
I somewhat reluctantly bought the Mag 7 bluray recently because it was dirt cheap, and I'm glad I did because I definitely have a newfound appreciation for this movie. While there are some logic issues (Wallach's character makes some inexplicably dumb decisions) and some hammy acting  (bad acting doesn't bother me in the least), everything else works. The landscapes are beautiful, as is the town. The pace is dead on perfect. There are obviously a lot of great scenes as well.

I do have to say that Robert Vaughn just bothers me to no end. His costume was so ridiculous. It felt like he was in another movie.

As for the bluray, the picture is great, but the sound is a little disappointing. It's well worth the 8 bucks I paid for it though.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: dave jenkins on May 12, 2011, 12:26:11 PM
As for the bluray, the picture is great, but the sound is a little disappointing. It's well worth the 8 bucks I paid for it though.
Glad to hear the PQ is up to snuff.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: T.H. on May 12, 2011, 01:37:28 PM
An excerpt from blu-ray.com's review:

If you're like me, you're probably most concerned with The Magnificent Seven. Fans will be glad to see that the print used here is relatively clean, with only a few scattered white flecks throughout the duration. Clarity is as strong as could be expected, and though there are definitely some soft shots—a product of the original film elements, not this transfer—most of the time you'll notice a fairly impressive level of fine detail. Horses' coats have a discernable texture, and so does suede, the cloth weft of the village elder's poncho, and the weathered, sun-beaten faces of our heroes. There are some minor color fluctuations, but the film's dusty palette has been reproduced nicely, with rich neutrals, creamy sky blues, and vivid reds. Black levels are perfectly tuned, and strong contrast carves out an image with a palpable dimensional presence. The film's grain structure is intact, and you will see some spikes in analog noisiness during longer establishing shots and lap dissolves between scenes. Compression artifacts and other issues are almost entirely absent, and the only oddity I noticed was some occasional telecine wobble—when the film shakes subtly back and forth as it runs through the telecine machine. This is most apparent near the beginning of the film, but it lets up quickly.

MGM somehow didn't screw this one up.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 02, 2012, 05:48:27 PM
so I just bought The Collector's Edition 2-disc set http://www.amazon.com/Magnificent-Seven-Two-Disc-Collectors-Edition/dp/B000BX0VRI/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1341270761&sr=8-4&keywords=the+magnificent+seven It's available dirt cheap on Amazon; I bought it for one reason: the Frayling commentary, which is only available on that edition of the movie. I just saw it with the commentary; this review will discuss the commentary, not the movie itself.

 The commentary is terrific. (Even if you completely forget the fact that I love Frayling because of his Leone work),he is an amazing commentator in and of itself. Full of information, hardly ever stops talking through the more than two hours, virtually no narration, it's all great analysis and discussion. Frayling may not have been as thoroughly knowledgeable with every detail regarding the making of this movie as he was with the Leone films, but he still knows a hell of a lot; he is as good at analyzing a movie as anyone, and analyzing and Sturges's direction methods, spends a lot of time comparing scene-by-scene to Seven Samurai, and of course as you can expect with a Frayling commentary, his encyclopedic knowledge of Western movie history (and movie history in general) is very useful, as he spends a good deal of time placing this movie in the context of the history of the Western.

Frayling seems to think that Sturges was very underrated as a Western director. While he acknowledges that Sturges may have made some turkeys in other genres, he wonders why Sturges has not gotten the credit he deserves as a great Western director. Frayling considers BAD DAY AT BLACK ROCK a Western; either way, I don't think it was a very good movie. I've seen GUNFIGHT AT THE OK CORRAL and HOUR OF THE GUN once each, a few years  ago; I remember liking the latter very much, the former not as much, but I'd have to see it again before having a definite feel for those. Also, Frayling mentions LAST TRAIN FROM GUN HILL, and says it was similar to HIGH NOON; IMO it was a much closer reference to 3:10 TO YUMA than it was to HIGH NOON. (Personally, I thought the story of LTFGH was dumb, but I liked two things about the movie: a) Kirk Douglas delivers a terrific performance; and b) I just loved the production design, they used the Old Tucson set which was used in many AW's, and is probably my favorite American set for a Western town. (btw, the American town set for THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN is also terrific.

If I have one possible criticism of Frayling's commentary, it's that perhaps he spends a bit too much time on the comparison's with Seven Samurai. he basically goes scene-by-scene saying things like eg. "The equivalent scene in Seven Samurai was where Toshiro Mifune goes and.... but the difference there is that....." or "this scene was different than Seven Samurai in this way...." Sure, it is important to state what parts of the story are the same and what parts are different, but I think it should have been done in a more general sense. Ie. at moments where a big piece of the story or character is different, or where a scene is totally added, then it is appropriate to make the comparison; but when every 5 minutes (or more) he says, by each new thing that happens, "the equivalent in Seven Samurai is..." it gets a bit grating after a while. In FOD, Frayling makes occasional comparisons with Yojimbo, but they are much less frequent and on major plot points, so that was done very well.
I should mention that I have not yet seen Seven Samurai; perhaps if I had seen it, I'd appreciate the constant comparisons more. So I'll re-evaluate this point once I've seen Seven Samurai. Anyway, that is the one small criticism I have of his commentary.

Otherwise, this commentary is nothing short of awesome. Frayling has a great voice and a terrific cadence that keeps you interested. Unfortunately, so many commentators, while being knowledgeable on the particular movie and on movie history, sound like the nerdy professors that they are, and they are often very obviously reading prepared, written commentary off a paper. Frayling, as I'm sure you all know from listening to his commentary on Leone films -- never sounds like he is reading off a paper. 

Beaver http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/dvdreviews20/magnificent_seven_dvd_review.htm discusses two other versions of the movie, one  a dvd and the blu ray, but the other 2 do not have the Frayling commentary; they only have a commentary by Wallach, Coburn, the producer, and the assistant director. The Collector's Edition has both commentaries. So I recommend that you buy it for the Frayling commentary; it's available dirt cheap on Amazon. As for the other commentary, I've only listened to a few minutes of it so far, it sounds good. Thankfully, all 4 of them are sitting in a room together, which is much better than those commentary tracks that are pieced together from various separate conversations. (btw, Beaver refers to the "... two decent commentary tracks..." no you idiot, the Frayling commentary is nothing short of awesome. Also, Beaver still has not updated his description of the Blu ray package from two years ago, when you were forced to buy the blu ray in a 4-movie combo package along with all the sequels. Now, the blu ray for just The Magnificent Seven is available as a single disc. It's about time Mr. know it all updated the blu ray description from two years ago, so that readers who use him as a Bible (cough, cough) won't think they have to purchase the 4-movie pack if they want the Blu Ray. Finally, Tooze says in his comments on the SE that while he hasn't seen the original, it "wouldn't surprise me if this was only marginally superior..." How about he either looks at it and tells us for sure, or keeps his mouth shut. Guessing helps nobody  ::))

If you like Frayling commentaries, buy this disc. Just make sure it is the 2-disc Collector's Edition dvd, which I provided a link to at the top of this post; that's the only one which has the Frayling commentary


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 02, 2012, 05:59:34 PM
no,they must all die...we gotta give them at least a bit of dignity and honor

but if they all die, then there can't be another sequel  ;)


------


On that note: is it worth watching any of the sequels? So far, I've only seen the original, and I don't plan on seeing any of the sequels unless someone specifically tells me that it's worthwhile. (When they initially released the blu ray disc, it was a 4-disc combo package of the original and all 3 sequels; you couldn't buy the original as a separate blu ray disc. Now, the original is available separately, but the point is that if they originally packaged them all together, that makes me wonder if the others could stand on their own. There's a reason why Paramount would never force you to buy The Godfather and The Godfather II together  ;))


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: stanton on July 03, 2012, 11:58:31 AM
They are all more or less mediocre. The Kennedy directed Return is the worst.

But I'm not a great fan of Mag 7 either. One of the "great" westerns which are not that good.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: dave jenkins on July 03, 2012, 03:27:34 PM
But I'm not a great fan of Mag 7 either. One of the "great" westerns which are not that good.
Seconded.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Cusser on July 03, 2012, 08:53:25 PM
Don't bother with the sequels.   I saw them all in theaters, but remember we liked westerns.

In fact, Return of the Seven and GBU were my very first records, don't remember what order (there was not a soundtrack album issued for "Magnificent Seven" until decades later, but Return of the Seven has quite a few tracks in common.

I have the single-disc DVD, that's enough for me.  I've also read "The Good, the Bad, and Me" by Eli Wallach who discusses that film a lot.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: cigar joe on July 04, 2012, 05:52:27 AM
Seconded.
Thirded


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on June 06, 2014, 07:25:54 AM
Rumor has it that Denzel Washington may be in a remake of The Magnificent Seven
https://www.yahoo.com/movies/denzel-washington-antoine-fuqua-eye-magnificent-87905685597.html

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2404435/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_1


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Cusser on February 13, 2016, 03:53:32 PM
OK, let's revisit The Magnificent Seven.

I always wondered if the film would be better or worse with the following scenario.  I'd be interested in Leone board members responses, with your reasons behind your decisions, thanks.

Alternate Scenario:
Calvera kicks the Seven out of town like in the film, but WITHOUT their guns.  After Calvera's men return back to town after escorting them out, the Seven are miffed (like in the film) and decide to return to town without any guns.  So they sneak back and find Calvera's sentries, and knife/hit them over the head with rocks, then take the sentries guns, and re-arm themselves to then attack Calvera and his men, etc. then proceed to the current ending.  Thoughts, please.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: titoli on February 13, 2016, 05:47:15 PM
You keep wanting Calvera to act like an idiot.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Novecento on February 14, 2016, 05:26:15 AM
If I remember correctly, this scenario does not happen in Seven Samurai as the bandits never take control of the village. I wonder why they deviated from the original here?


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Cusser on February 14, 2016, 06:53:42 AM
You keep wanting Calvera to act like an idiot.

want Calvera to NOT act like an idiot, I would never have returned their guns to them !!


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: titoli on February 14, 2016, 07:11:00 AM
want Calvera to NOT act like an idiot, I would never have returned their guns to them !!

want calvera not to act like an idiot he must try to get rid of them, not simply bring them to the door unarmed. scroll some pages back.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: stanton on February 15, 2016, 03:29:41 AM
If I remember correctly, this scenario does not happen in Seven Samurai as the bandits never take control of the village. I wonder why they deviated from the original here?

The one thing that Mag 7 does better than 7 Samurai is that Calvera becomes a human being and therefore becomes a kind of a tragic character, I feel a bit sad for him, while I don't care for any of Kurosawa's bandits. They are all plain ugly and plain bad.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Novecento on February 15, 2016, 05:02:25 AM
I don't think Kurosawa wanted to focus on the bandits at all. The focus was just on the villagers and the samurai with the bandits just being the "other". It's interesting how Sturges modified this. As much as I love Wallach as an actor, I don't know if I agree with shifting the focus in this way.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on February 15, 2016, 07:06:10 PM
I love watching Wallach and enjoy watching him as much as or more as the good guys - as is the case in many movies with a bad guy that I like watching. In WHITE HEAT, do you enjoy watching Cagney or Edmond O'Brien more? But I disagree that Calvera becomes a sympathetic character. The character is pure evil. But great fun to watch, so of course I hope he stays alive as long as possible and has as many scenes as possible so that I can watch him as long as possible.

There are indeed movies where they give the bad guy time to tell his side and you can understand his position. One prominent example is SHANE, where the main Riker brother gets time to tell his story and you can understand his position. But not Mag7. Calvera is a plain and simple murderer and thief, I don't see any redeeming value to the character, even though it is played (to perfection) by one of my all-time favorite actors.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: stanton on February 16, 2016, 02:52:33 AM
I don't think Kurosawa wanted to focus on the bandits at all. The focus was just on the villagers and the samurai with the bandits just being the "other". It's interesting how Sturges modified this. As much as I love Wallach as an actor, I don't know if I agree with shifting the focus in this way.

Most of the Seven are not that interesting, play out too much as typically clichéd characters, so it is good for the film that Wallach can give his character more space, can give him more edge. It doesn't turn him in a complex character, but he is still more interesting by that


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Novecento on February 16, 2016, 10:46:48 AM
Definitely prefer "Seven Samurai" myself.

Having said that, I'd take "Fistful of Dollars" over Yojimbo.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: noodles_leone on July 18, 2016, 08:49:12 AM
Is there a thread somewhere for the remake?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shnGH2yi2rc


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: dave jenkins on July 18, 2016, 10:47:46 AM
Is there a thread somewhere for the remake?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shnGH2yi2rc
Yes, indeed: http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=12491.0


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: noodles_leone on July 18, 2016, 11:03:56 AM
Thanks, I thought so but our search engine refused to believe me.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 18, 2016, 01:13:18 PM
Thanks, I thought so but our search engine refused to believe me.

the thread should be placed in the AW index, if it isn't already ...


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Moorman on January 04, 2017, 05:38:34 AM
To be perfectly honest. . . I'm not that big a fan of this movie.  IMO, it's more of a collection to good-to-great scenes than a great movie.  The cast is spectacular, but the only characters I really liked were Vaughn, Coburn, and Wallach. 

I personally think that a much better film of this type is "The Professionals".  Maybe it's because there's no weenie newcomer; just Lee Marvin, Woody Strode, Burt Lancaster, and Robert Ryan, older professionals who don't whine but kick ass and take names.  Those guys are real men's men, working for money and not pretending to work for anything else.  (Plus the gunfights were better and Claudia was in the film. ;D) It's more of a personal preference than anything else, to be sure.  Plus the screenplay was better.  I can name off the top of my head maybe five or six lines from "The Magnificent Seven", and probably twice that from "The Professionals".  Some particular favorites of mine:

"Do I have to kill you to prove I like you?"

"I wouldn't do that!  My friend would die of a terrible headache - and so would you!"

Dullworth: "Hey Chiquita!  How's your love life!"
Chiquita: "Terrific!  You want some?"
Dullworth: "Do you EVER say no?"
Chiquita: "Never!"
Dullworth: "Anybody?"
Chiquita: "EVERYbody!" ;D  :-*

And the classic:
Fardan: "So what's on your mind besides 100-proof women, 90-proof whiskey and 14-karat gold?"
Dullworth: "Amigo. . . you just wrote my epitaph!"

I will not deny the importance or influence of "The Magnificent Seven", and I am in no way saying it's a bad film.  I just can't see it as being one of the greatest Westerns of all time.

Hi folks. My very first post here.  Let me say that Westerns are my favorite movie genre.  At one time,  gangster movies were my favorite, but Westerns having taking over the number 1 spot for me.   Now, my personal opinion about this movie, the magnificent Seven done in 1960.  Like the poster above, i think this is movie is overrated. I saw it for the first time about 6 months ago.  The good things that i liked about the movie were the script,  the cast, and the cinematography was ok.  The major flaw with the movie was the gunfights themselves.  The gunfights were rated E for everyone.  It was like you have this big movie, with this big cast, and for the grand finale, they all come out with  pop guns.

Sam Peckinpah himself said that he made the Wild Bunch's fight scenes brutal in response to the lackluster effort in the Magnificent Seven.  You had this great build up, only to be let down.  In a ironic twist, the 2016 remake was the very opposite. It had what i called a hurried, lackluster buildup,  followed by a over the top gunfight.  I will continue to watch both films because neither were bad, they both just left what could've been masterpiece material, on the cutting room floor...


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on January 04, 2017, 08:29:41 AM
Hi folks. My very first post here.  Let me say that Westerns are my favorite movie genre.  At one time,  gangster movies were my favorite, but Westerns having taking over the number 1 spot for me.   Now, my personal opinion about this movie, the magnificent Seven done in 1960.  Like the poster above, i think this is movie is overrated. I saw it for the first time about 6 months ago.  The good things that i liked about the movie were the script,  the cast, and the cinematography was ok.  The major flaw with the movie was the gunfights themselves.  The gunfights were rated E for everyone.  It was like you have this big movie, with this big cast, and for the grand finale, they all come out with  pop guns.

Sam Peckinpah himself said that he made the Wild Bunch's fight scenes brutal in response to the lackluster effort in the Magnificent Seven.  You had this great build up, only to be let down.  In a ironic twist, the 2016 remake was the very opposite. It had what i called a hurried, lackluster buildup,  followed by a over the top gunfight.  I will continue to watch both films because neither were bad, they both just left what could've been masterpiece material, on the cutting room floor...

Welcome aboard, pal  O0


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: dave jenkins on January 04, 2017, 08:41:26 AM
Yeah, welcome. Good comments!  O0


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Moorman on January 04, 2017, 09:49:47 AM
Thanx for the comments. I wish i knew about this forum years ago. Gonna have a great time discussing movies here... O0


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: noodles_leone on January 04, 2017, 10:26:32 AM
Welcome!  O0 O0


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Novecento on January 04, 2017, 11:45:07 AM
Sam Peckinpah himself said that he made the Wild Bunch's fight scenes brutal in response to the lackluster effort in the Magnificent Seven.

That's interesting - do you know where he is recorded as saying that?


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Moorman on January 04, 2017, 12:29:01 PM
That's interesting - do you know where he is recorded as saying that?

I read it in several places. Not a direct quote from Sam himself, but it was referenced by several sources that Sam felt this way not only about the Magnificent Seven, but all Westerns that were made up until he made the Wild Bunch:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2010/05/11/igns-top-25-westerns-of-all-time?page=5


Look under the production notes in this wiki article:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wild_Bunch


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: noodles_leone on January 04, 2017, 03:04:44 PM
I've also read that he was directly reacting to The Professionals but I have never seen a direct quote on that.

The generic quote I always come across is from his interview by Bertrand Tavernier in Combat (16 october 1969):

Quote
J’ai fait ce film […] parce que j’étais très en colère contre toute une mythologie hollywoodienne, contre une certaine manière de présenter les hors-la-loi, les criminels, contre un romantisme de la violence […] C’est un film sur la mauvaise conscience de l’Amérique

Very literal translation:

"I've done this film [...] because I was very angry against that hollywood mythology, against a certain way to show outlaws and criminals, against romanticising violence [...] It's a film about America's guilty conscience."

As you can see, he doesn't give any title in the quote but he may in the full interview. If someone finds it...


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: stanton on January 05, 2017, 03:46:46 AM
Peckinpah said a lot of things if the days were long ...


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: noodles_leone on January 05, 2017, 04:12:27 AM
Peckinpah said a lot of things if the days were long ...

Did DJ just hack your account?


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: mike siegel on January 05, 2017, 05:17:46 AM
One reason why Peckinpah & Leone were able to put new life into the western genre was the fact that they were anti-glamour. Especially Peckinpah didn't like happy endings very much nor did he care for the way Hollywood dressed up their heroes :). He wanted realism, not in terms of cinema verite but regarding authentic believable characters and situations. He pursued that from the get go: in THE WESTERNER, perhaps the only western series made for an adult audience. In THE DEADLY COMPANIONS he wanted to bring his idea of the west (dirty, stinky, dead flies & corpses) but he wasn't allowed to of course. He did that all before WILD BUNCH nevertheless, especially in MAJOR DUNDEE. He shot very gory scenes for DUNDEE, slow-motion and blood and all. 1964 mind you. 90% was cut of course. He didn't like the clean wardrobe common back then. DUNDEE is wardrobe-wise one of my all-time favorites. Those guys really suffer and their clothes really age during their journey. Gordy Dawson achieved that and Sam new he needed and wanted that man :) (the worked together until GARCIA, which Gordy co-wrote etc. ).
That was before Leone started to care about wardrobe a lot (what a difference from FISTFUL to OUATITW just 4 years later).

I have some nasty comments of Peckinpah regarding certain Hollywood films but he preferred to talk about films he loved, he cared for good drama (OX-BOW INCIDENT was one of his favorites) and "foreign" films.

MAGNIFICENT SEVEN is a great picture just for its energy, coolness, casting, power. I don't understand how a film lover cannot embrace this film. Just to see McQueen, Bronson & Coburn together makes me happy :). But in terms of a certain style and look it is still a 50s movie, don't forget that. But it opened up the 60s in a way. I don't think it really works 100% for "regular" audiences if you see it for the first time these days.
Anyway, what I never liked about it was part of the wardrobe - 50s again. Sturges couldn't dress up the Mexicans the way he wanted it (more dirty for sure) and the clean look was about the only think I really didn't like that much, because when I first saw it in 1980 I also saw WILD BUNCH & OUATITW for the first time :).


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: Moorman on January 05, 2017, 05:56:33 AM
One reason why Peckinpah & Leone were able to put new life into the western genre was the fact that they were anti-glamour. Especially Peckinpah didn't like happy endings very much nor did he care for the way Hollywood dressed up their heroes :). He wanted realism, not in terms of cinema verite but regarding authentic believable characters and situations. He pursued that from the get go: in THE WESTERNER, perhaps the only western series made for an adult audience. In THE DEADLY COMPANIONS he wanted to bring his idea of the west (dirty, stinky, dead flies & corpses) but he wasn't allowed to of course. He did that all before WILD BUNCH nevertheless, especially in MAJOR DUNDEE. He shot very gory scenes for DUNDEE, slow-motion and blood and all. 1964 mind you. 90% was cut of course. He didn't like the clean wardrobe common back then. DUNDEE is wardrobe-wise one of my all-time favorites. Those guys really suffer and their clothes really age during their journey. Gordy Dawson achieved that and Sam new he needed and wanted that man :) (the worked together until GARCIA, which Gordy co-wrote etc. ).
That was before Leone started to care about wardrobe a lot (what a difference from FISTFUL to OUATITW just 4 years later).

I have some nasty comments of Peckinpah regarding certain Hollywood films but he preferred to talk about films he loved, he cared for good drama (OX-BOW INCIDENT was one of his favorites) and "foreign" films.

MAGNIFICENT SEVEN is a great picture just for its energy, coolness, casting, power. I don't understand how a film lover cannot embrace this film. Just to see McQueen, Bronson & Coburn together makes me happy :). But in terms of a certain style and look it is still a 50s movie, don't forget that. But it opened up the 60s in a way. I don't think it really works 100% for "regular" audiences if you see it for the first time these days.
Anyway, what I never liked about it was part of the wardrobe - 50s again. Sturges couldn't dress up the Mexicans the way he wanted it (more dirty for sure) and the clean look was about the only think I really didn't like that much, because when I first saw it in 1980 I also saw WILD BUNCH & OUATITW for the first time :).

I agree that MOST people today who don't look at the art in movies, would not like most movies back from the 50s, 60s and earlier that weren't over the top, hollywood blockbusters like they make today. Thats not my problem with the gunfights in Magnificent Seven.  The problem i had was they grouped those superstars you named into one movie and built up expectations of something DIFFERENT than the normal gunfights you saw back then.  Peckinpah, a director, felt the same. 

To me,  part of the fun of movies is being able to discuss what you like or don't like about them. I especially like discussing movies that have or had potential to become masterpieces, but fell short. I think the original and remake of Magnificent Seven both fell short of my expectations.  Neither had that perfect balance that i look for in Westerns...


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: stanton on January 05, 2017, 06:06:47 AM
But there were enough dirty westerns made before, already in the 40s actually, already in the silent era already. All this talk about the clean westerns before Leone is total bullshit. Of course there were many clean looking westerns, but the important western directors always had a soft spot for dirty looking heroes and a rough atmosphere.

You can't expect end-60s violence in a film of 1960, especially not in a Hollywood movie from 1960. But there were definitely more violent films made before, and surely also a lot Peckinpah and Leone couln't complain about their depicting of screen violence.
But Mag 7 is generally in many aspects a softened film, softer than any western Sturges made before, and actually all of Sturges earlier westerns are better (includes his debut The Walking Hills), but on the other hand Mag 7 had also some new elements and belongs to the films which were a direct influence for Leone.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: stanton on January 05, 2017, 06:11:15 AM
Did DJ just hack your account?

No, not really, its a well known fact. Sam often enough had contradicted himself and he liked to exaggerate anyway.


(DJ is in fact one of my installed autobot writers, and he/it does his job very well, doesn't he/it?)


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: noodles_leone on January 05, 2017, 06:23:44 AM
No, not really, its a well known fact. Sam often enough had contradicted himself and he liked to exaggerate anyway.

Another trait him and Leone had in common!

(DJ is in fact one of my installed autobot writers, and he/it does his job very well, doesn't he/it?)

He's doing fine, a tad too automated from time to time but that's part of his (amazing) charm, I guess.


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on January 05, 2017, 09:10:17 AM
Another trait him and Leone had in common!

To quote Victor Mature as Doc Holliday, "HE, not HIM"  ;)


Title: Re: The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Post by: uncknown on January 06, 2017, 04:02:46 PM
The Hollywood and television Westerns just presented the actors in their contemporary look - specifically short, slicked back hair.
Men in the 19th century wore long hair and beards - not all , but many!

I think Klaus Kinski in FAFD may have been the first "long-hair" in 60's westerns!
bruce marshall