Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => The Good, The Bad and The Ugly => Topic started by: depp91 on September 07, 2013, 02:57:41 AM



Title: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: depp91 on September 07, 2013, 02:57:41 AM
Rumours had already spread and were discussed on the German Cinefacts forums: 20th Century Fox will release a remastered version of TGBU in 2014. They confirmed it yesterday when they replied to a question posed by a user:
(http://s7.postimg.org/v2pczdjej/Unbenannt.jpg)

So, what do you think of this? Will we finally get a decent BluRay of this movie??
I'm thinking about asking via Facebook if it is possible to include fans in this project in order to assist them on some things that had been wrong in previous editions... What do you think?

UPDATE:
Fox wrote at Film-Insider:
"Zu Rocky liegen noch keine weiteren Informationen vor. Bisher ist nur bekannt, dass es einen neuen Transfer geben wird, mehr wissen wir leider noch nicht. Gleiches gilt auch für die Glorreichen Halunken."
("There is no further information regarding Rocky. The only thing that is known by now that there will be a new transfer, we don't know more yet, unfortunately. The same is true for The Good, The Bad And The Ugly.")


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Novecento on September 07, 2013, 04:43:34 AM
Awesome news. Along with a beautiful transfer, I'd definitely recommend some seamless branching options.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Lil Brutto on September 07, 2013, 11:46:02 AM
Great news!

Fingers crossed for a half decent release.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: dave jenkins on September 07, 2013, 04:11:04 PM
This IS good news, but doesn't speak to whether or not there will be a U.S. release for this master. I'm hoping for a Criterion edition.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: stanton on September 08, 2013, 06:47:46 AM
If MGM/Fox masters this film again I see no reason why they shouldn't release it worldwide again.

Question is what they do in that case with the audio options. And with the cave scene.

In a perfect world they would release all versions in one set. Some kind of Special Platinum Extra Gold Titanium Edition


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: drinkanddestroy on September 08, 2013, 07:00:52 AM
is John Jerk gonna be in charge of this? If so, I am not too confident about it


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Lil Brutto on September 08, 2013, 09:16:51 PM
I've been thinking about this and there are so many ways they can mess up this release.

Ultimately, I hope they abandon the extended version. That will increase our chances of getting the original English mono soundtrack.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Cusser on September 09, 2013, 07:09:19 AM
I believe most feel that the already technology exists (for several years now) to offer as (1) original US release, (2) with the additional scenes added in (except the cave scene), and (3) the entire "restored version" with the cave scene, so viewer could simply chose one of those options with the DVD remote control.  And maybe with a choice of original or modified audio.

But the real goal should be to get it right.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Lil Brutto on September 09, 2013, 10:27:19 AM
depp91,

Can you ask 20th Century Fox Deutschland if this remastered release will include the International or extended version? Or both?


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: stanton on September 09, 2013, 01:25:31 PM
So far they have only announced that they are willing to release it again next year if they think there is enough interest. So there is a chance they will take in consideration every point of critic which was uttered constantly in the last years.

It would be clever to make a deal with the Italians and to remaster it together by using all elements which belong in the film. But, are they clever ?


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: emmo26 on September 09, 2013, 02:25:24 PM
...and what about a 3d version


Personally from time to time, I like to watch the old grainy version from my old VHS.



Some people still prefer to listen to vinyl, than mp3´s.  ;D


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: drinkanddestroy on September 09, 2013, 03:14:05 PM
So far they have only announced that they are willing to release it again next year if they think there is enough interest.

Then we should let them know there is significant interest by barraging those message boards with posts, and sending them letters, emails, and phone calls....


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Dirty Rat on September 10, 2013, 04:52:35 AM
Then we should let them know there is significant interest by barraging those message boards with posts, and sending them letters, emails, and phone calls....

....and maybe a horses head?


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Novecento on September 10, 2013, 07:19:55 PM
It sounds like The Gaumont à la demande series.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: hanshotfirst1138 on June 14, 2014, 10:19:14 AM
The lack of the mono is still a major dealbraker for me Sad. Evidently, outside of the old SD DVD theatrical version, there's never been a version of this with the original mono. The downmix is almost more insulting than not including it at all. How foolish does Fox think that fans are? The definitive movie of the whole genre, and no proper release? What a crushing disappointment. It's the Drunken Master II of Spaghetti Westerns. Sigh.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: dave jenkins on June 17, 2014, 03:58:43 PM
4.5/5 for PQ over at Blu-ray.com! http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Man-with-No-Name-Trilogy-Blu-ray/95396/#Review


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Jordan Krug on June 20, 2014, 09:39:08 PM
Anybody interested in the colour debate should look at this: this is a transfer of the actual film cuts done by the italians that they saved on a film reel before the cut went out internationally. We all know these scenes, but what's interesting is that these trims are clearly from an original print, with splice marks, print damage etc - definitely not from any dvd that's been released. Lo and behold, no extreme teal or over saturated yellow colouring. If anybody here is a member of the bluray.com forum, please post this link there, should give you some ammunition in the original colour debate that's raging there.

http://cinecensura.com/violenza/il-buono-il-brutto-il-cattivo/


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Lil Brutto on June 20, 2014, 10:04:32 PM
Anybody interested in the colour debate should look at this: this is a transfer of the actual film cuts done by the italians that they saved on a film reel before the cut went out internationally. We all know these scenes, but what's interesting is that these trims are clearly from an original print, with splice marks, print damage etc - definitely not from any dvd that's been released. Lo and behold, no extreme teal or over saturated yellow colouring. If anybody here is a member of the bluray.com forum, please post this link there, should give you some ammunition in the original colour debate that's raging there.

http://cinecensura.com/violenza/il-buono-il-brutto-il-cattivo/

Holy $hit, Jordan. You're on a roll with these clips!


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Jordan Krug on June 20, 2014, 10:11:02 PM
Holy $hit, Jordan. You're on a roll with these clips!

Haha, well I like to think I'm a bit of a slueth at heart.  O0


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Lil Brutto on June 20, 2014, 10:19:58 PM
I just posted the link in the bluray.com thread.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Lil Brutto on June 21, 2014, 01:41:17 AM
Jordan, is there a way to download the video clip from cinesura.com?


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Jordan Krug on June 21, 2014, 07:11:50 AM
If you use Firefox browser with the download plugin. If you can't grab it send me a pm I already downloaded it and can try to send you a link to download it..would love to know if there's any interesting information in the large italian language PDFs attached to that page...it's correspondence with the producer Grimaldi and the censor over the film.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Sundance on June 21, 2014, 07:51:40 AM
So Blondie's name is Joe?  :D Wasn't that the name in AFOD as well?

(First time I saw it, maybe the rest of the world already knows)


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Jordan Krug on June 21, 2014, 08:43:15 AM
So Blondie's name is Joe?  :D Wasn't that the name in AFOD as well?

(First time I saw it, maybe the rest of the world already knows)

You're right, that's what it says in the "treatment" included in those documents. Good catch.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Novecento on June 22, 2014, 08:03:42 AM
Anybody interested in the colour debate should look at this: this is a transfer of the actual film cuts done by the italians that they saved on a film reel before the cut went out internationally. We all know these scenes, but what's interesting is that these trims are clearly from an original print, with splice marks, print damage etc - definitely not from any dvd that's been released. Lo and behold, no extreme teal or over saturated yellow colouring. If anybody here is a member of the bluray.com forum, please post this link there, should give you some ammunition in the original colour debate that's raging there.

http://cinecensura.com/violenza/il-buono-il-brutto-il-cattivo/

Thanks so much for sharing this. Good to know that whole yellow thing was not the original intent!


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: noodles_leone on June 22, 2014, 08:48:37 AM
Still looks quite yellow to me but it seems to me that the reason for the color debate is that 1960's prints don't keep "true" colors that long, so there can technically be no record of the original coloring. Did I miss something? My knowledge of film preservation is very very limited.

That being say, the "original coloring" of any film is something you've probably never seen, and this is true for Nosferatu as well as for the Avengers.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Lil Brutto on June 22, 2014, 02:17:47 PM
IB Tech prints are considered the best representation of the original colour timing because they're apparently fade proof.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Lil Brutto on June 22, 2014, 07:44:08 PM
If you use Firefox browser with the download plugin. If you can't grab it send me a pm I already downloaded it and can try to send you a link to download it..would love to know if there's any interesting information in the large italian language PDFs attached to that page...it's correspondence with the producer Grimaldi and the censor over the film.

Jordan, I just wanted to confirm you received my reply (with download link) to your PM. Did you receive it?


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Jordan Krug on June 22, 2014, 11:10:47 PM
Got it, thanks so much Brutto!


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Lil Brutto on June 23, 2014, 06:33:40 AM
 O0


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: mike siegel on July 07, 2014, 10:57:12 AM
I bought the BD and can live with it. That is: only after adjusting my Samsung flat screen. For instance I usually watch BD's with 'warm 2' because many BD's have less warm colors than DVD's. With GBU it is the other way around. But with the setting  'cold' or 'natural' it looks OK. Tomorrow I'll play with the colors as well, maybe I can enhance it furthermore.
It doesn't look my 35mm IB Tech stuff from 1967, but I'm quite happy I finally have the last film of my Top 15 on BD. (except for the damn re-dubbed shots that still take me out of the film for a second here and there..).


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: dave jenkins on July 07, 2014, 11:31:53 AM
This week, until July 12, the new Man With No Name trilogy (including the new GBU mastering) is only $18.49 at amazon. Drink, are you paying attention? http://www.amazon.com/With-Trilogy-Remastered-Edition-Blu-ray/dp/B00HZN8TBC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1404754078&sr=8-1&keywords=the+man+with+no+name+trilogy+4k


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 07, 2014, 11:34:54 AM
If they hadn't redubbed those shots, they have had to use the Italian audio with English subtitles - that would be less jarring for you? IMO, it was a good idea that they re-dubbed it, especially cuz Wallach and Eastwood were able to do it.
My only big problem with the dubbing is the sequences with Aldo Guiffre. (i may have mentioned this elsewhere; if i did i apologize for the repeat.) He is only in one extended sequence, and part of it was cut on initial release and therefore re-dubbed in 2003 with a different voice actor, and that voice actor sounds very different than the one who dubbed Guiffre's scenes in 1967. So one second you hear him speak in one voice, and the next second in another, very different voice.
I know this may sound blasphemous to some, but I think that maybe they should have re-duubbed all of Guiffre's scenes in 2003 with a single voice actor. The reason I don't think this is so blasphemous is that the Iitalian Guiffre's 1967 English "voice" is of course dubbed by a voice actor anyway; so it's not really an "auuthentic" Guiffre anyway - unless Leone himself chose and supervised the duubbing of all supporting actors. But since Leone didn't speak much English and Guiffre wasn't one of the main characters, I wonder if maybe he just let some assistant choose the American voice actor and supervise the dubbing. If that is the case, would it be that wrong to re-dub all Guiffre's dialogue with one voice actor? Of course, the original should always be available as an option; i am always in favor of giving options :)


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: stanton on July 07, 2014, 12:29:00 PM
(except for the damn re-dubbed shots that still take me out of the film for a second here and there..).

Why not watch/hear the German version?

I never watched it in English.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: stanton on July 07, 2014, 12:33:25 PM
If they hadn't redubbed those shots, they have had to use the Italian audio with English subtitles - that would be less jarring for you?

That's ok for me. I watch many films that way. I prefer it to a dub which does not fit with the original version. And Eastwood's and Wallach's voices sound in the English version more different from their 67-voices than the guy who spoke Lee van.

And I watch Italian westerns often in Italian with German subs anyway (if these are translated from Italian).


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: emmo26 on July 07, 2014, 07:05:48 PM
the italian version with english subtitles is slightly different from the dubbed version.

In the LVC Fort scene the captain is dubbed saying 'drifters' whereas the subtitles says 'draft dodgers'

Also the word 'sod' appears in the subtitles but not in the dub.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Lil Brutto on July 07, 2014, 09:12:52 PM
It doesn't look my 35mm IB Tech stuff from 1967...

What is this "stuff" you speak of?


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Jordan Krug on July 08, 2014, 05:34:36 PM
http://youtu.be/qMrZBXMGDbU

This brand new italian trailer for the re-release of gbu from the Leone film group looks nothing like the new mgm bluray...in fact I think it looks different from the mondo disc too.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: mike siegel on July 09, 2014, 03:54:06 AM
Why not watch/hear the German version?

I never watched it in English.

Really? I never watched in German again since my first US VHS from the mid-80s. No, I'm lying, I forgot the 35mm screenings.
Tuco & Sentenza's voice are great but Gert Günther Hoffmann (for Connery & Rock Hudson he was perfect) as Eastwood
is not that perfect I feel.  Besides I like up-mixed sound, I play those kind of films veeery loud. Sounds so much better than
those old 40-60 years old mono-tracks.
But changing sound effects is a no-go. (why would they have to use the Italian soundtrack ?? Of course one could use the old
Italian gun effects. They sound less perfect for a re-mix and less modern, but so much cooler. Anyway, I started my birthday
yesterday with a screening of the new 4k BD and had a great time. After adjusting my Samsung of course. Not many buyers / viewers
will do this and I feel sorry for them regarding the terrible 'yellow - look'. So far I have 200 BD's and only TWO need a serious
change in color setting before screening. The other one is the Italian GIU LA TESTA.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 09, 2014, 07:51:55 AM
Haha the same guy dubbed Rock Hudson and Sean Connery? Is that a misprint? Or did you actually say Rock Hudson and Sean Connery?


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Jordan Krug on July 09, 2014, 09:51:21 AM
http://youtu.be/qMrZBXMGDbU

This brand new italian trailer for the re-release of gbu from the Leone film group looks nothing like the new mgm bluray...in fact I think it looks different from the mondo disc too.

Here is a quick and dirty comparison between the mgm 2014 blu, the italian mondo blu, and the new trailer released by the Leone film group. The footage from the Leone film Group trailer looks slightly different from the mondo release. Of course the MGM just looks terrible every time you compare a shot with blue sky!

https://imageshack.com/i/nflnpwdj


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: stanton on July 09, 2014, 01:56:18 PM
Haha the same guy dubbed Rock Hudson and Sean Connery? Is that a misprint? Or did you actually say Rock Hudson and Sean Connery?


That's not a problem. At least not for me. He sounds different if the actors are that different.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Lil Brutto on July 09, 2014, 03:08:30 PM
Here is a quick and dirty comparison between the mgm 2014 blu, the italian mondo blu, and the new trailer released by the Leone film group. The footage from the Leone film Group trailer looks slightly different from the mondo release. Of course the MGM just looks terrible every time you compare a shot with blue sky!

https://imageshack.com/i/nflnpwdj

KrugJ strikes again! Thanks for the youtube link. Those colours are way different than the MGM 4K. In fact, based on your comparison pics, the colours are similar to the Mondo BD.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Jordan Krug on July 09, 2014, 04:17:39 PM
KrugJ strikes again! Thanks for the youtube link. Those colours are way different than the MGM 4K. In fact, based on your comparison pics, the colours are similar to the Mondo BD.

Yes, similar to the mondo but there is a bit of a difference, which makes me think the Italians might be releasing another blu next year? Perhaps as a boxset?

Of course, MGM would have us believe their transfer is "what Leone intended"...but it seems like maybe Leone's own family doesn't agree. Would love to hear what the print looks like in the theatre in Italy...


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Lil Brutto on July 09, 2014, 05:01:54 PM
That would be great. Another opportunity to sync the english audio to the superior Italian video.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Jordan Krug on July 09, 2014, 05:37:05 PM
That would be great. Another opportunity to sync the english audio to the superior Italian video.

I certainly find the colors of the mondo superior, but it has its own inherent problems. Besides the image jumping vertically on nearly every cut as I've mentioned before, the more I watch it the more I notice a lot of strange "warping" in the image, as if they've tried to stabelize it digitally. I think they had a very wrinkled or curled negative and an inferior scanner. Compare the couple of long shots of "shorty Larson" being hanged in the mondo to the new MGM and you'll see the MGM is rock solid stable and the mondo is literally warping and twisting, almost as if there is a heat haze in front of the lens. So really there's no winning with either disc...I would welcome a new transfer and I hope the Italians have taken the 4k image scanned for the MGM (rock solid and beautifully detailed but because its negative no color correction) and applied their own color correction to it - that would be the best of all worlds. (Oh and if they threw in English mono :)


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Lil Brutto on July 10, 2014, 11:48:48 AM
...I would welcome a new transfer and I hope the Italians have taken the 4k image scanned for the MGM (rock solid and beautifully detailed but because its negative no color correction) and applied their own color correction to it - that would be the best of all worlds. (Oh and if they threw in English mono :)

I'm optimistic the Italians, who have a history of doing a better job than MGM, will release a superior transfer with correct colours. If the colours are consistent with your youtube link, that would be awesome.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: mike siegel on July 10, 2014, 01:21:46 PM
This is how the MGM looks on my (adjusted) Samsung:
(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/gbumgm1.jpg) (http://s953.photobucket.com/user/peckinpah69/media/gbumgm1.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: noodles_leone on July 10, 2014, 05:36:56 PM
This is better.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: dave jenkins on July 11, 2014, 07:14:14 AM
Too pink.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: noodles_leone on July 11, 2014, 09:25:44 AM
You're pink.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: mike siegel on July 11, 2014, 10:54:56 AM
You're pink.

Thanks for the laugh :)
(and then there's the smartphone-camera white balance. It looks slightly less red than on the picture I took)


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 11, 2014, 05:51:59 PM
you're all evil homophobes  >:D


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 14, 2014, 11:56:09 PM
here is a review by a guy named Aaron who runs "The Lee van Cleef Blog" http://thebadnet.blogspot.com/2014/06/blu-ray-review-good-bad-and-ugly-4k.html

I've looked through this site occasionally; it has some very cool stuff. I particularly looke dthrough this guy's pics from Los Albaricoques; really awesome.

Anyone visit/post on this blog? Better yet, is this Aaron guy a member of the Leone boards? If not, we should reach out to him and invite him; he hs great shit, great memorabalia, location stuff, etc. etc. I think he'd make a great contribution to the SLWB  :)


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: cigar joe on August 01, 2014, 06:41:10 AM
from IMDb:

by ajvenigalla » 1 day ago (Wed Jul 30 2014 06:27:28) Flag ▼ | Reply | 
IMDb member since September 2013

So I got hold of a pirated 720p copy of the new GBU 4k remaster from the original camera negative.

And I am quite amazed at how much improvement this is over the 2009 MGM transfer.

The picture is sharper, the color tone and the filmic feel is far more authentic, and even the much-criticized yellow teal adds a sort of natural charm to it.

I believe that Blu-ray.com's highly positive review of the new 4K remaster is spot on. It's very authentic, very sharp, and filled with natural film grain. The yellow teal can get a bit annoying, but that doesn't diminsh the great things about this new 4K transfer. Who knows? The yellow teal may have been close to Leone's own intent. And not only that, scanning from the original 35mm camera negative was a great thing. The picture is fuller, wider, and far sharper than the previous video remasters.

So on a scale of 1-10, I would give this transfer a 9/10, not a 10/10 because of the yellow teal.

Eclectic Cinephile


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: dave jenkins on August 01, 2014, 09:33:21 AM
That guy seems to think there is a color called "yellow teal."


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: dave jenkins on August 01, 2014, 10:15:08 AM
Oct. 7, single disc edition ($13.99): http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Good-the-Bad-and-the-Ugly-Blu-ray/92052/


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 01, 2014, 03:27:41 PM
Oct. 7, single disc edition ($13.99): http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Good-the-Bad-and-the-Ugly-Blu-ray/92052/

good. happily, I never got the recent boxset, so I'll wait another couple of months and get the single disc


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 01, 2014, 10:56:20 PM
After reading that post every time I take a piss from now on should I revel on how charming the yellow of my urine is in the toilet bowl?

Ridiculous.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: mike siegel on August 02, 2014, 02:20:34 AM
Just drink more water, the yellow will fade away more and more, works for me...


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: stanton on August 02, 2014, 01:23:19 PM
I bought the Blu meanwhile too.

The German mono audio is great.

The Yellow is good for all the landscape in the background, but for my taste there is too much color in the film, so it is the first DVD/Blu for years (at least since I have this amazing Plasma TV) for which I turned down the colors a bit. I don't mind the yellowish color palette per se, but somehow the film looks strange on this Blu. Not like it used to be.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: dave jenkins on August 03, 2014, 12:36:35 PM
I bought the Blu meanwhile too.

The German mono audio is great.

Is this what you bought? http://www.amazon.de/Zwei-glorreiche-Halunken-Blu-ray-Cleef/dp/B00IDS9M50/ref=sr_1_2?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1407090675&sr=1-2&keywords=the+good+the+bad+and+the+ugly

Is the German mono audio what went out in 1966/7? What did they do for the audio in the grotto scene?


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Novecento on August 03, 2014, 12:51:46 PM
That guy seems to think there is a color called "yellow teal."

 ;D

Basically opposite ends of the spectrum! They've probably got their terminology all muddled up due to the whole orange+teal thing:

http://www.wired.com/2013/01/orange-teal-infographics/


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: stanton on August 03, 2014, 01:21:00 PM
Is this what you bought? http://www.amazon.de/Zwei-glorreiche-Halunken-Blu-ray-Cleef/dp/B00IDS9M50/ref=sr_1_2?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1407090675&sr=1-2&keywords=the+good+the+bad+and+the+ugly

Is the German mono audio what went out in 1966/7? What did they do for the audio in the grotto scene?

Yes, that's the one. The same as in whole Europe.

It's the original German mono audio, and not the fake 5.1. audio which they packed on the 2004 DVD and on the 2009 Blu.

The originally not dubbed scenes were taken from a 1996 TV mono dub for these scenes. They used the same speakers, but just like on the English dub the problem is that the voices did sound different after so many years. but at least better than on the much new criticised dub MGM made for the 2004 DVD.

The Grotto scene was then taken from the 2004 version, and also a few lines of the torture scene. cause the 1996 dub was done for the differently cut Italian version of that scene.

So it's still a mish-mash, but at the moment more then one could hope for. That MGM skipped their own 5.1. sound completely (and followed therefor an internet petition of fans) is not taken for granted.

The first DVD from 1998 contained also the mono version, but the sound was pretty bad, half of it marred by some hum in the background.

So at least we Germans have the original gun sounds back.

Well, the next remastered HD version (most likely less yellowish) will surely follow around 2019, then let's see if we get rid of the grotto scene. But in the meantime there surely will appear a newly Italian Blu, now remastered in 4K .


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 03, 2014, 03:51:34 PM
So the new European BRD has the original mono; but the original English mono is not on the new American BRD?
And the new European BRD has the longer cut of the torture scene?
Btw, does anyone know if the torture scene was cut by Leone following the Rome premiere (like the Cave scene) or was it cut by the American distributor like the rest of the "missing" 16 minutes? (we probably covered this point somewhere in the "GBU Restored Scene Breakdown" thread but I forgot ... )


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: dave jenkins on November 07, 2014, 10:06:47 AM
A poster at CriterionForum reports:
Quote
FYI: The new single-disc release of THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY 4K restoration contains the correct restored mono audio and NOT the infamous 5.1 mixdown. If anyone is skeptical, compare the 5.1 against the mono for the Extended Version scenes and you'll see they're clearly different.
I'm not quite getting what he's saying. There never was any mono audio for the Extended Version scenes in English, was there?


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Lil Brutto on November 07, 2014, 12:15:26 PM
No there wasn't. Confusing post. Can he confirm it's not merely a downmix of the 5.1 track?


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Novecento on November 07, 2014, 09:53:28 PM
DVD Savant just wrote some comments on the new BD (http://www.dvdtalk.com/dvdsavant/archives/2014_11.html). Most notably:

Quote
When the single disc edition of GBU appeared in October we assumed it would be identical to the disc in the Trilogy box set. NOPE -- two trustworthy and knowledgeable Savant readers have written in to report that a restored original mono choice has been added. The single-disc release is the first time that the original monaural has been available since the 1998 DVD of the short U.S. theatrical version. Fans of the original mix can finally enjoy all those original wheezy Leone gunshot sound effects again.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: cigar joe on November 07, 2014, 10:52:23 PM
cool  O0


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Lil Brutto on November 08, 2014, 11:13:36 AM
So where's the recall for the MWNN Trilogy BD set? They obviously fucked up.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Lil Brutto on November 08, 2014, 01:06:35 PM
I dashed out to the store right after reading Savant's post. I picked up the BD for only $10 CDN.

I've had it in my player for less than 10 min and I can confirm it's the original mono mix during the International cut scenes. Unfortunately, it's lossy Dolby Digital 1.0 192kbps.

I've yet to listen carefully to the extended scenes but I did immediately notice during the outpost scene that the voice has changed for the soldier saying, "Sergeant, listen to this Corporal for a moment."



Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: dave jenkins on November 09, 2014, 11:40:25 AM
I'm still not getting this. What does the audio do when it gets to the portions that were "restored" in 2002? Does it suddenly shift from the original mono to the 5.1 mixdown?


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Lil Brutto on November 09, 2014, 01:06:20 PM
I'm still not getting this. What does the audio do when it gets to the portions that were "restored" in 2002? Does it suddenly shift from the original mono to the 5.1 mixdown?

The quote from criterion is misleading. The entire track is mono. They correctly used the original mono for most of the film (i.e. the International cut) and spliced in "downmix" mono for the extended scenes. I quoted downmix because it's not identical to the mono mixdown track on previous releases. In fact, it's better. Especially for the grotto scene. Previously the lip sync was terrible. Chace Audio improved it significantly by rearranging the words of Tuco's monologue and dialogue with the 3 bandidos. It sounds like they made Tuco's voice deeper too. There's also some tweaking of the other extended scenes as well. All for the better. Chace Audio did a good job with what they had to work with.

WHY COULDN'T MGM INCLUDE A LOSSLESS MONO TRACK???


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: dave jenkins on November 09, 2014, 02:57:42 PM
Got it. Thanks heaps.  O0


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Novecento on November 10, 2014, 07:46:51 PM
It sounds like they made Tuco's voice deeper too.

That sounds like a wise choice. I know it was Eli Wallach's own voice (albeit after several decades had passed) but it was too high relative to his voice elsewhere.

This release sounds tempting in spite of the colors now.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: drinkanddestroy on November 10, 2014, 08:21:38 PM
so for this recent release, if I have the single-disc version, I definitely shouldn't get the trilogy version, right? The single-disc version has everything the trilogy-version has PLUS the original mono audio option?


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Lil Brutto on November 12, 2014, 04:47:45 PM
so for this recent release, if I have the single-disc version, I definitely shouldn't get the trilogy version, right? The single-disc version has everything the trilogy-version has PLUS the original mono audio option?

That's correct.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: drinkanddestroy on November 12, 2014, 08:38:08 PM
That's correct.

Thanks  O0

I guess that sometimes, spending less can get me more  ;)


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: dave jenkins on November 13, 2014, 10:43:43 AM
A poster, apparently some kind of insider, put this up over at CriterionForum:
Quote
On other boards, I've seen some people note that on the restored mono, Eli Wallach's voice sounds deeper in the Extended Version scenes, and there is speculation that Chace lowered the pitch. That's actually not the case. When the 5.1 mix was made, the low and high ends were cut off the Extended Version scenes, thinking that this would make the new material blend better with the old. For the new mono restoration, the Extended Version scenes were totally rebuilt from scratch, with the original ADR mixed with the mono music and effects track for those scenes. During the 2014 mono restoration, it was decided not to degrade the audio as severely as the 2003 mix, so what viewers are hearing now in the Extended Versions scenes is Wallach's natural voice as it was recorded with significantly LESS processing than before.
Interesting. This guy also speculates that the "mono restoration" GBU disc went out in follow-up pressings of the 2014 trilogy set.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Cusser on November 13, 2014, 11:29:38 AM
Anybody have a part number for this new single-disc version?  There's so many versions out there, very confusing !


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: drinkanddestroy on November 13, 2014, 06:04:06 PM
Anybody have a part number for this new single-disc version?  There's so many versions out there, very confusing !

This is the new single-disc GBU BRD http://goo.gl/2CujCn

on back of the case, by the proof of purchase, it says "Blu Ray Cat. # M130981"


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: stanton on November 14, 2014, 05:11:28 AM
The covers for GBU are always very, very inventive.

If it's the same as the European one on the backside is an image from FAFDM, also in the menu. These Blus were really designed by film lovers.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Novecento on November 15, 2014, 06:46:24 AM
The covers for GBU are always very, very inventive.

If it's the same as the European one on the backside is an image from FAFDM, also in the menu. These Blus were really designed by film lovers.

 ;D



So in terms of the best BDs with English audio of the Dollars Trilogy available now, is the following correct:

FOD: Italian Ripleys (2009, 2010)
FAFDM: German Universum (2013)
GBU: US MGM (2014)


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: cigar joe on November 22, 2014, 04:17:16 AM
I could almost swear that when I saw the film back in 1967 on Times Square that it was slightly gold-ish overall, in fact I could swear that one review I read even mentioned its golden Mediterranean sunlight. That's not to say the BD didn't overdo it.  ;)


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Lil Brutto on November 22, 2014, 05:08:06 PM
...in fact I could swear that one review I read even mentioned its golden Mediterranean sunlight.

Do you think you can find that review?


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: cigar joe on November 23, 2014, 04:37:33 AM
Do you think you can find that review?

I was living in NYC at the time so I'd guess its (what I used to read) either one of the NY papers, NY Times, Daily News, NY Post, NY Herald Tribune, and The Long Island Star Journal, or Time, Newsweek, Look, Life, magazines.

I saved a few clippings I'll check them.  O0


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Novecento on November 29, 2014, 07:09:20 AM
amazon.com has this for $4.99 right now as part of its Black Friday sales! At that price I couldn't resist.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Novecento on December 21, 2014, 01:35:08 PM
This release sounds tempting in spite of the colors now.

Finally managed to find the time to watch my BD. I really enjoyed it - that goes for both the color and the mono audio.

Fortunately the grotto scene is a self contained chapter so you can easily hit "next chapter" to avoid it if desired.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: uncknown on January 21, 2015, 02:25:07 PM
It seems that no version (or soundtrack) of this film will ever be definitive, but like, say, BLADE RUNNER it will remain a classic in any version!

What's GOOD abou this version:

mono soundtrack option
Chritopher Fraylings superb commentary. He deserves the title "Sir"!
Vibrant colors
restored scenes in mono

If i had the technical skills I would make a dvd that included the expanded version through the restored Sentenza fort scene. In the original mono
Then i would switch to the MGM version until the arrival at the Branston Bridge ( i prefer the original shorter US version)
Then back to the Fox version (or maybe even the MGM stereo one)

releax and enjoy
bruce marshall


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: drinkanddestroy on January 29, 2015, 10:27:45 PM
I just put this disc in my BRD player for the first time and skipped around and watched a few scenes.

This piece of shit (or, more accurately, this piece of piss) will never again contaminate my blu-ray player. It is absolutely atrocious this piss color.

Maybe the original MGM BRD is too red, so maybe I'll use the MGM DVD for future viewings - probably the restored edition. I know it doesn't have the mono, but I am not gonna watch piss just for the mono audio. I'd rather have a good image and live with the bullshit 5.1 audio. I could watch my 1998 DVD, which does have the mono, but then I lose the restored scenes (and I am sure – though I've never watched it more than a minute here or there – that the image quality on that version isn't as good as the 2004 restoration.

As I mentioned in the Goodfellas thread but I'll repeat here: I also own the Mondo Italian BRd but there is somethijng weird about it, looks like the old cellphone videos where there isn't a smooth movement (both when people move and when the camera pans), it's like moving step by step, very weird. So I am never watching that BRD again. And I am never watching this 2014 piss disc again, mono or no mono. Even the red MGM BRD is far better than this. For future viewings, I think I will go with the MGM Special Edition DVD and that's that. If I want to har Frayling's commentary, which is only available on the BRD's, then I'll use the MGM BRD. This Fox BRD is a travesty.



Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: stanton on January 30, 2015, 06:32:24 AM
The 2014 Blu is not that bad. Turn the color down and it mostly should look good. Maybe the colors of your TV are also not correctly adjusted. The standard settings of a new TV are mostly wrong, or at least far from good.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Novecento on January 30, 2015, 07:56:10 PM
Yes - I didn't make any adjustments to my TV and it looked really good. I really like the release and with the original mono audio, it's a no-brainer for those who want English dialogue


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Jordan Krug on January 31, 2015, 07:15:40 AM
Aside from the color, the 4k remaster is flawless in terms of sharpness, grain retention, print damage, flicker, registration. Had they got the color right you couldn't ask for a better transfer. The italian mondo has superb color but suffers from registration problems and digital warping.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: stanton on January 31, 2015, 09:01:11 AM
after taking the colors a bit back there are still some yellowish whites and some turquose skies in some shots, but it is far from distracting, and I can live with this.

Don't forget the next MGM HD mastering will arrive at about 2019/2020


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: dave jenkins on January 31, 2015, 01:10:05 PM
Are you kidding? There's no way MGM are going to pass the 1966-2016 anniversary (the big 5-O) without issuing something for this title. It's not in their corporate DNA.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: drinkanddestroy on January 31, 2015, 07:15:55 PM
The italian mondo has superb color but suffers from registration problems and digital warping.

Yeah,  couple of days ago, I just stuck my Mondo BRD into the blu-ray player for the first time, and as I wrote then, it kinda  looks like the old cellphone videos where there isn't a smooth movement (both when people move and when the camera pans), it's like moving step by step, very weird. Is that what you are talking about?


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: drinkanddestroy on January 31, 2015, 07:28:49 PM
Aside from the color, the 4k remaster is flawless in terms of sharpness, grain retention, print damage, flicker, registration. Had they got the color right you couldn't ask for a better transfer. The italian mondo has superb color but suffers from registration problems and digital warping.

Maybe "aside from color, the 4k master is flawless." But color is a huge factor. And I'm not interested in messing around with the colors on my TV. (As mentioned above, the Italian Mondo, while color looks nice, is absolutely useless.)

For me, the best BRD out there is MGM's first BRD. Yes, it's too red; yes, they used DNR to get rid of the grain; no, they don't have mono. But overall it is the best BRD out there (between that, the 2014 Fox version, and the Mondo version). It's better than the piss of the 2014 version and the Mondo is unwatchable as described above, all movement is in steps there is  no smooth movement, that's unwatchable. I am certainly not going to watch the awful piss of the 2014 version just for the mono audio.

IMO, here is what it comes down to:
If you want the extra scenes and will live with the changed audio, then use the MGM SE DVD (probably what I'll be doing).
If you absolutely can't live without mono and don't mind watching an unrestored version, then use the 1998 MGM DVD.
If you wanna hear Frayling's commentary, which is only available on the MGM BRD or the Fox BRD, use the MGM.

If DJ is correct and MGM does release another BRD soon for the 50th anniversary, I'd hope they'd keep the original mono, and for image, keep the colors similar to the MGM SE DVD. Still hoping for a definitive release of one of the greatest movies of all-time.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: stanton on February 01, 2015, 03:13:15 AM
Are you kidding? There's no way MGM are going to pass the 1966-2016 anniversary (the big 5-O) without issuing something for this title. It's not in their corporate DNA.

They won't release a new version in 2016. It simply too early. But I expect maybe something like a limited Steelcase Special Edition (1.000.000.000 copies only) with a 1034 pages booklet, the screenplay and a collection of 10 - 20 yellow dyed stubbles from Clint's last shave. A must have for any real fan.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: dave jenkins on February 01, 2015, 09:54:59 AM
They won't release a new version in 2016. It simply too early.
No. Not for this title with its fan base. MGM are gonna be ready to go.
Quote
But I expect maybe something like a limited Steelcase Special Edition (1.000.000.000 copies only) with a 1034 pages booklet, the screenplay and a collection of 10 - 20 yellow dyed stubbles from Clint's last shave. A must have for any real fan.
Sign me up! Sign me up!


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Dust Devil on February 01, 2015, 10:45:19 AM
They won't release a new version in 2016. It simply too early. But I expect maybe something like a limited Steelcase Special Edition (1.000.000.000 copies only) with a 1034 pages booklet, the screenplay and a collection of 10 - 20 yellow dyed stubbles from Clint's last shave. A must have for any real fan.

 ;D


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Cusser on February 04, 2015, 09:50:39 AM
I expect maybe something like a limited Steelcase Special Edition (1.000.000.000 copies only).

A billion copies?  Even for GBU that's too many !!!


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: stanton on February 04, 2015, 12:02:48 PM
A billion copies?  Even for GBU that's too many !!!

Well it's only the limited release ...


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: The clint on December 07, 2015, 01:20:31 PM
What's GOOD abou this version:

mono soundtrack option
Chritopher Fraylings superb commentary. He deserves the title "Sir"!
Vibrant colors
restored scenes in mono

I really like the release and with the original mono audio, it's a no-brainer for those who want English dialogue

I'd hope they'd keep the original mono, and for image, keep the colors similar to the MGM SE DVD. Still hoping for a definitive release of one of the greatest movies of all-time.

Guys... Hate to break it to ya, but the new BD doesn't contain the original English mono track. The BD mono track is a mixdown of the surround hack-job that was created for the extended version around the year 2003. To my knowledge, every English mono track on an MGM/20th Century Fox release of a Leone film since 2003 has been a mixdown. I think hell will freeze over before MGM/Fox release a Leone BD with an original soundtrack, because that would expose all the inauthenticity the crept into the surround mixes.

Also, a real English mono mix of the extended version The Good, the Bad and the Ugly doesn't exist. The mono soundtrack with English dubbing was mixed only for the International version and we probably won't see that released again either. I still have the 1998 DVD though, the only version I've watched for years, and the only one I'll ever watch from here on.

Here, blu-ray.com acknowledge that the English mono of GBU is a mixdown:

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Man-with-No-Name-Trilogy-Blu-ray/95396/#Review (http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Man-with-No-Name-Trilogy-Blu-ray/95396/#Review)


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Novecento on December 07, 2015, 06:48:23 PM
I think you are talking about the 3 disc set in which the original mono was not included. However, the most recent US single disc BD release of GBU does contain the original mono track.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: The clint on December 08, 2015, 01:53:51 AM
Really? None of the reviews I saw indicated that MGM had actually reissued the film with the original mix. In any event, it doesn't include the International Version, even though it would have been the easiest thing in the world with seamless branching. Add to this the dodgy color correction and this release doesn't hold much hope of winning me over.


Title: Re: Remastered version by 20th Century Fox coming in 2014
Post by: Novecento on December 08, 2015, 10:59:57 AM
Yes - really  :)

It seems like some of the later 3 disc sets also included the correct mono audio on the GBU disc that was omitted from some of the earlier prints. If you have one of the earlier ones, you could try contacting them for a replacement?