Sergio Leone Web Board
Films of Sergio Leone => Duck, You Sucker => Topic started by: chris on November 07, 2013, 12:12:54 PM
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English audio would be nice for DYS with a correct score
I wonder what cut of OUATITW it will be?
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yes, and it would be nice if it were region-free. But that's something we won't know until the BRD is actually released....
hopefully, this means a Region A release isn't far behind
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Euro International Films are to release Blu-rays of Giù la testa and C'era una volta il west in Italy on Dec 5, 2013.
http://www.amazon.it/...Giù la testa (http://www.amazon.it/dp/B00G2UUUM0/?tag=bluraycom0c-21)
http://www.amazon.it/...C'era una volta il west (http://www.amazon.it/dp/B00G2UUU7U/?tag=bluraycom0c-21)
Hopefully we'll find out more details in due course.
This is good to know. Apparently, there is also a new edition of BBC being released on that day also (with a listed running time of 168 min). Is the Mondo edition now out of print?
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Apparently, there is also a new edition of BBC being released on that day also (with a listed running time of 168 min).
Here also the new DVD is listed with the same runtime. It surely will be the 175 min again. I doubt that there will be a need to release an other version in Italy
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It seems that the Italian rights for most Leone films have changed.
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I already have all the dollars films on Italian blu-ray (FOD is Mondo; FAFDM and GBU are Ripley's). These are gonna be different?
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According to the distributor's official website, the Blu-ray of DYS/Giù la Testa will have Italian and English audio.
http://www.01distribution.it/areapress/dettagli.php?id=55&sezione=Homevideo (http://www.01distribution.it/areapress/dettagli.php?id=55&sezione=Homevideo)
The same site shows GBU and FAFDM as having Italian audio only.
I guess the next question is whether you can play the English audio without getting Italian subtitles, but if the only titles are for the "non udenti" then maybe they're optional.
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The Ripley's brd's of FAFDM and GBU, which I own, don't either have English audio.... does that mean that this will be a re-release of basically the same brd, or is it just something to do with distribution rights that doesnt allow the brd of GBU or FAFDM to be released in Italy with English audio?
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According to the distributor's official website, the Blu-ray of DYS/Giù la Testa will have Italian and English audio.
That sounds promising!
I guess the next question is whether you can play the English audio without getting Italian subtitles...
That's only often a problem with French releases; I've never come across it with an Italian release.
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when it comes to DYS, questions 1 thru 10 are: will they get the audio right?
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Probably yes, as they used the mono version for their English audio track, and not the fake 5.1. sound of the MGM release.
The runtime will be then 157 min, which means the addional last flashback is included. Even if then it is actually not a Leone approved version from 1971, cause the theatrical cut did not include that scene. But of course DYS is better with that scene.
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The runtime will be then 157 min, which means the addional last flashback is included.
I assume this is the long flashback, not the short one.
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Long one? Short one? Never heard about different ones.
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Probably yes, as they used the mono version for their English audio track, and not the fake 5.1. sound of the MGM release.
The runtime will be then 157 min, which means the addional last flashback is included. Even if then it is actually not a Leone approved version from 1971, cause the theatrical cut did not include that scene. But of course DYS is better with that scene.
when I said "audio," I wasn't referring to mono vs. 5.1; I was actually referring to the music and dialogue, cuz as we've discussed extensively in the "DYS soundtrack comparison" thread, the different dvd's have different music and dialogue in certain spots
RE: the final flashback: if they do include the flashback, that is definitely the Leone-approved version. Leone wanted that flashback in, Frayling says the distributor (I think in Italy?) cut it cuz they believed people wouldn't stay through that whole flashback; they'd think the movie was ending and walk out. (Not sure why they would think that....) But Leone definitely wanted that in
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Further info at:
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=8410562&postcount=32 (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=8410562&postcount=32)
This sounds great!
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did it say anything about region codes?
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when I said "audio," I wasn't referring to mono vs. 5.1; I was actually referring to the music and dialogue, cuz as we've discussed extensively in the "DYS soundtrack comparison" thread, the different dvd's have different music and dialogue in certain spots
Yes, but that's only happening in the 5.1 audio from MGM. I think the Original English mono audio got it right. Apart from altered noises (like gunshots etc) for a 5.1 sound, which should be forbidden, the other changes are minor stuff for me.
RE: the final flashback: if they do include the flashback, that is definitely the Leone-approved version. Leone wanted that flashback in, Frayling says the distributor (I think in Italy?) cut it cuz they believed people wouldn't stay through that whole flashback; they'd think the movie was ending and walk out. (Not sure why they would think that....) But Leone definitely wanted that in
I also think that Leone wanted it in, but he allowed the film to be released without it. And I doubt that it was the distributor's decision.
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Yes, but that's only happening in the 5.1 audio from MGM. I think the Original English mono audio got it right. Apart from altered noises (like gunshots etc) for a 5.1 sound, which should be forbidden, the other changes are minor stuff for me.
the different musical is minor stuff for you????? That's major stuff for me. Especially in the final flashback, where, as we discussed extensively in the soundtrack comparison thread, (in my opinion and the opinion of many others) the interpretation of that scene is very different depending on whether the music stops and then starts again once Nolan starts kissing the girl, or if it flows straight: if the former, Sean is not happy with the situation; if the latter, he is.
There's also some change in dialogue (eg. just before Sean lights the dynamite to save Juan from the firing squad, Sean says either "duck, you sucker" in one version and "short fuse" in another. Also, there's some cursing that is scrubbed in one version.
Also, I don't believe we ever resolved in that thread which version was correct.... so it's not like I can say, "I hope they do Version X and not Version Y," cuz I don't know which is correct. I just hope they use the correct music!
I believe that post on blu-ray.com said they are using a 1971 positive to get the color right.... what about the audio? where are they getting that from?... My guess is that the reason for the differentiation in music of the final flashback is because that final flashback was cut on initial release, so when it was later put back for the dvd, maybe the original soundtrack for that scene didn't survive?.... Also, on initial theatrical release, was the final flashback cut in ALL countries, or did it play in some countries? I'm hoping there is still an original, full print of the movie from 1971 that has all the correct music...
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the different musical is minor stuff for you????? That's major stuff for me. Especially in the final flashback, where, as we discussed extensively in the soundtrack comparison thread, (in my opinion and the opinion of many others) the interpretation of that scene is very different depending on whether the music stops and then starts again once Nolan starts kissing the girl, or if it flows straight: if the former, Sean is not happy with the situation; if the latter, he is.
There's a lot of interpretation necessary to see a difference for this scene. I do not see it, or hear it. I hear slightly different music. And I would never have noticed it without reading about it.
There's also some change in dialogue (eg. just before Sean lights the dynamite to save Juan from the firing squad, Sean says either "duck, you sucker" in one version and "short fuse" in another. Also, there's some cursing that is scrubbed in one version.
For that, I never watched DYS in English, and will probably never do. But it would maybe something I would notice. But still, minor stuff. I also did not care much for the missing seconds (which are now restored) on the FAFDM DVDs.
Also, I don't believe we ever resolved in that thread which version was correct.... so it's not like I can say, "I hope they do Version X and not Version Y," cuz I don't know which is correct. I just hope they use the correct music!
I believe that post on blu-ray.com said they are using a 1971 positive to get the color right.... what about the audio? where are they getting that from?... My guess is that the reason for the differentiation in music of the final flashback is because that final flashback was cut on initial release, so when it was later put back for the dvd, maybe the original soundtrack for that scene didn't survive?.... Also, on initial theatrical release, was the final flashback cut in ALL countries, or did it play in some countries? I'm hoping there is still an original, full print of the movie from 1971 that has all the correct music...
I think it was never shown anywhere until the restoration was done in Italy in the mid-90s. And then later also added to the MGM version.
The correct audio is the one from the Italian version. Wasn't that already clarified which is the correct one and which not? Ain't it only the 5.1 version which has some discrepancies?
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The correct audio is the one from the Italian version. Wasn't that already clarified which is the correct one and which not? Ain't it only the 5.1 version which has some discrepancies?
maybe.
but there was major debate over which music was correct - and IMO, getting the music correct is more important than the gunshots or minor bits of dialogue
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Yes, but that depends on how much was changed. The ending of the Paramount OUTW, that's a big change, but I remember that when I compared some of the different music parts for Giu la testa (the pup scene) that it sounded not that different. Of course it should be the way it was originally made.
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I wish it was all available exactly as Leone wanted it.
Once you said you'd rather have dialogue correct than audio, I'm just responding that (in this particular situation - nothing to do with OUATITW or any other movie), if I could only have one thing corrected, it would be the final music. But again, I wish everything was correct.
Now, here is a question I have - which I am sure is discussed in the "soundtrack comparison" thread but I am too lazy to check through all 7 pages, so I hope someone has an easy answer: if only the MGM dvd has the final flashback, then where does the other version of the flashback and music come from? The European dvd (which had the other dialogue, the curses, etc.) did that have the final flashback?
Also, were there any musical discrepancies between the two versions other than the last scene?
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A whole bunch of Leone movies are being released in Italy on Blu-ray on Dec 5, 2013, including Colossus of Rhodes.
http://www.amazon.it/Il-colosso-di-Rodi... (http://www.amazon.it/Il-colosso-di-Rodi/dp/B00G2UUUQG/ref=pd_rhf_dp_s_cp_3_9B3X?ie=UTF8&refRID=19PJ0AKZGPEA66BW5DEB)
http://www.amazon.it/Per-qualche-dollaro-in-pi... (http://www.amazon.it/Per-qualche-dollaro-in-pi%C3%B9/dp/B00G2UUU6Q/ref=pd_sim_dvd_2)
http://www.amazon.it/Il-buono-brutto-cattivo... (http://www.amazon.it/Il-buono-brutto-cattivo/dp/B00G2UUURK/ref=pd_sim_dvd_3)
http://www.amazon.it/Cera-una-volta-il-west... (http://www.amazon.it/Cera-una-volta-il-west/dp/B00G2UUU7U/ref=pd_sim_dvd_4)
http://www.amazon.it/Giu-la-testa... (http://www.amazon.it/Gi%C3%B9-la-testa/dp/B00G2UUUM0/ref=pd_sim_dvd_1)
Chris, how about you make a separate thread for each of the above movies, in that movie's board; that way, we can discuss each individual brd separately, rather than discussing them all in this thread in the DYS board. Thanks :)
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okay, I made a separate thread in each movie's board.
Once the brd's are released and more info comes out, there's probably going to be some discussion on each one, and IMO it's better to have a separate thread where each can be discussed :)
Let the countdown begin – 14 days to go!
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I've just ordered this from an Ebay seller. Initially, I wanted to wait until the first reviews appear, but I just couldn't resist :o
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Further info at:
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=8410562&postcount=32 (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=8410562&postcount=32)
If that "further info" is correct, then I'm getting excited, especially about this part:
""The restoration of GIU' LA TESTA was made from the original negative and magnetic soundtrack From Sergio Leone Foundation .
This copy corresponds to the full version that Sergio Leone approved in 1971.
The Techniscope negative was scanned at a resolution of 2K and digitally restored, the color correction was performed taking as reference a positive print of 1971.
The English version sound was restored from the original magnetic materials used for mixing in mono.
The film was restored by the Cinematheque of Bologna at L'Immagine Ritrovata laboratory in 2009, with the approval of the Sergio Leone Foundation .""
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Amazon Italy does not mention anything about an English language soundtrack at all, but the above review clearly confirms it is there!
Just to double-check before I order my copy, are you indeed sure the English language option in the menu is available? Thanks
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I am not sure. As you say, the amazon.it page for the title says nothing about an English audio track. Amazon info is often unreliable, however. Just how reliable the other source is remains to be seen. To be safe, you could wait and watch for comments from people who actually get the disc.
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yeah, I never trust a word Amazon says. Wait till you hear what people who bought it say.
if these discs will play in American blu-ray players, I'll definitely buy them all.
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Someone at bluray.com posted the following:
"Easily one of the discs of the year. Colours are very warm, detail is rich and sharpness is excellent (but it's not over-sharpened). There are very few instances of debris/minor damages during the film. I confirm the English track, which is clearly the better option - especially regarding explosions, noises and so on. Like "Once Upon a Time in the West", the disc is B-locked."
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=229638&page=4
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Hot damn! Ordered!
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Oops, bad news from hometheaterforum: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/topic/328643-a-sneak-peek-at-leone-and-polanski/
Now, the usual suspects on another board are calling Duck, You Sucker the Blu-ray of the year. I don't know what year they're actually talking about, perhaps 2004 before Blu-ray existed? Because not only is it not the disc of the year, it's a complete and utter fail in terms of color - well, unless you like brown (what the wags on that site call "warm" - apparently they've never seen an actual Sergio Leone film or they would know that a drab, brown film could not be what he intended. And make no mistake, this is as drab a transfer as this film has had. The contrast is milky, the color is brown, and the detail is okay. The MGM/UA DVD has slightly better color and at least has a little blue and green in it. This thing made me want to vomit on the ground - anyone who's seen what this film should really look like will want to do the same - and I just saw a gorgeous IB Technicolor print of it literally four weeks ago. Disc of the year, my butt cheek. Mr. Leone and his cameraman would be turning over in their graves - and shame on Andrea Leone for allowing this or thinking that it's right in any way.
Order cancelled!
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you are a fickle man, Mr. Jenkins ;D
Has anyone said anything about the dialogue and music? No matter how good, bad, or ugly the image is, I'd be interested to know what they did about those differences in the dialogue and music that we've discussed so much.
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Has anyone said anything about the dialogue and music? No matter how good, bad, or ugly the image is, I'd be interested to know what they did about those differences in the dialogue and music that we've discussed so much.
Read further down on the blu-ray forum thread linked to above
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thanks, I read down till the end of page 1 of that thread; IMO here is the important post on that page http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=8567963&postcount=77
it says "this is the original Italian edit with the final flashback at the end" -- I would just like to know what music they use for that final flashback; is it the song where the music stops and then starts again when Sean stops kissing the girl and hands her off to Nolan, or is it the continuous music? To me, - while I don't know which song is the correct one, that's the most important change in the film, because the meaning of the scene depends on which song is used, as we've discussed in the DYS Soundtrach Comparison thread
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Someone at bluray.com posted the following:
"Easily one of the discs of the year. Colours are very warm, detail is rich and sharpness is excellent (but it's not over-sharpened). There are very few instances of debris/minor damages during the film. I confirm the English track, which is clearly the better option - especially regarding explosions, noises and so on. Like "Once Upon a Time in the West", the disc is B-locked."
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=229638&page=4
Like Dave Jenkins I thought ''Hot damn. Ordered.' And did.
THEN I read the BAD NEWS posting. Too late to cancel.
Unfortunately I can confirm the BAD NEWS.
I wanna punch the person who posted the above in the blu-ray forum. He or she was probably bribed.
Usually I'm lucky checking out discs in the net before I order them, this time I wasn't.
What an IDIOT. ''Colors, rich, warm'' ??? BLINDMAN comes to mind.
There ARE no colors! I know people at the Cineteca and a lot of their work, great people.
So I can't imagine what happened. Maybe it's the one out of 100 that was fucked up.
Or they had no funds to deal with the colors. Looks to me that these are the colors
that they got after the HD transfer! After 40 years or so negatives look like that (incl.
some minor color correction). AWFUL. I'm really sad, I love this film.
I read they used a 1971 positive print as reference. What the fu..???
The prints already looked faded when I first saw it in cinemas in 1980.
Will there be an US BD release ?????????? The colors on the DVD are fine.
Besides the colors the image quality is quite good, but what good does that do now??
Don't ask me about the sound (english, yes), I didn't check the ending yet.
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Mike, did you also order some of the other new Leone Blus?
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It's funny how the reception on the Internet has changed from "BluRay of the year" to a more critical view.
I haven't received the disc yet (the ebay seller I bought it from hasn't even shipped it yet, I think :-\).
Let's collect all the negative stuf that has been said about the release so far:
- bad quality English language track
- "What about me?" is actually in Italian on the English language track
- colors look faded / brownish
- around the 39/40 mark a few frames from somewhere else in the movie are randomly spliced in
- the English language track is out of sync in places
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so the American MGM dvd is better than this new blu-ray?
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Well I upgraded this year to a 46inch Samsung, and the DVD is not good enough for that. A lot of my DVD's are very well excecuted regarding master / authoring and stil look very good. Unfortunately not this one :( . Just not enough details, sharpness, resolution.
I'm getting more and more sad. Leone is one of THE all time film makers, his films (just so few anyway!) are top sellers when
it comes to classic cinema - still nothing but trouble. No experts at work. What a shame.
So far the only really great one is FOD!. The low-budget one! The German BD is just great. (And the 50 year Italian BD next
year should be great as well).
FDM - not a good HD master at all! VERY grainy, night scenes are always difficult but here almost EVERYTHING is grainy.
GBU I don't even have yet. Nightmare. Should be a KILLER Blu-ray. Where is it??
OUATITW - is OK, but not great either.
GIU LA TESTA - what a downer today. Sharp, HD and it still sucks.
OUATIA - I just read some postings here and I'm already frustrated.
I know BD label people who have a lot of problems with Italian HD masters. Yes, IT IS difficult to make a (almost) perfect HD master,
but it is not impossible!
I just watched CORRUPTION from 1967 (Grindhouse), with Peter Cushing, not his best known film, yet the master is FANTASTIC.
Looks like the film was shot last year. What's this trouble with our beloved Sergio ? Do we have to do for them ?
The FOD BD shows that it is possible to give justice to these pieces of art.
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The German FAFDM Blu is indeed too grainy. I bought it for the second German dub, which has some changed parts in the score and one of these parts is brilliant, only that it wasn't Leone who made it. And I bought it because it contains the minor parts which were still cut.
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Well I upgraded this year to a 46inch Samsung, and the DVD is not good enough for that. A lot of my DVD's are very well excecuted regarding master / authoring and stil look very good. Unfortunately not this one :( . Just not enough details, sharpness, resolution.
I'm getting more and more sad. Leone is one of THE all time film makers, his films (just so few anyway!) are top sellers when
it comes to classic cinema - still nothing but trouble. No experts at work. What
I know BD label people who have a lot of problems with Italian HD masters. Yes, IT IS difficult to make a (almost) perfect HD master,
but it is not impossible!
I just watched CORRUPTION from 1967 (Grindhouse), with Peter Cushing, not his best known film, yet the master is FANTASTIC.
Looks like the film was shot last year. What's this trouble with our beloved Sergio ? Do we have to do for them ?
The FOD BD shows that it is possible to give justice to these pieces of art.
Sometimes it seems the more popular a film is, the poorer the quality of the original elements...which sort of makes sense if you think of all the prints, re-issues, foreign cuts, restorations etc over the years. Add to that different cuts for Italy and North America...plus the fact Leone shot in a rarer format like technicscope...there's just a lot of things that can go wrong with each release when they haven't done the proper research.
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Like Dave Jenkins I thought ''Hot damn. Ordered.' And did.
THEN I read the BAD NEWS posting. Too late to cancel.
Unfortunately I can confirm the BAD NEWS.
I wanna punch the person who posted the above in the blu-ray forum. He or she was probably bribed.
Usually I'm lucky checking out discs in the net before I order them, this time I wasn't.
What an IDIOT. ''Colors, rich, warm'' ??? BLINDMAN comes to mind.
There ARE no colors! I know people at the Cineteca and a lot of their work, great people.
So I can't imagine what happened. Maybe it's the one out of 100 that was fucked up.
Or they had no funds to deal with the colors. Looks to me that these are the colors
that they got after the HD transfer! After 40 years or so negatives look like that (incl.
some minor color correction). AWFUL. I'm really sad, I love this film.
I read they used a 1971 positive print as reference. What the fu..???
The prints already looked faded when I first saw it in cinemas in 1980.
Will there be an US BD release ?????????? The colors on the DVD are fine.
Besides the colors the image quality is quite good, but what good does that do now??
Don't ask me about the sound (english, yes), I didn't check the ending yet.
Oops, sorry that happened to you. However, thank you for the confirmation, even though the news is all bad. I guess I'll have to seek solace for the time being with the Eric Rohmer l'integrale set.
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So far the only really great one is FOD!. The low-budget one! The German BD is just great. (And the 50 year Italian BD next
year should be great as well).
the Italian Ripley's BRD that's out now is beautiful http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/dvdreviews42/fistful_of_dollars_blu-ray.htm
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the Italian Ripley's BRD that's out now is beautiful http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/dvdreviews42/fistful_of_dollars_blu-ray.htm
Attualmente non disponibile.
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Attualmente non disponibile.
It is available on Amazon's American website
http://www.amazon.com/Per-Un-Pugno-Dollari-Italian/dp/B00416RQLA/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1388466844&sr=1-1&keywords=per+un+pugno+di+dollari
(btw, the rambling Amazon review by Tino is mine)
The Italian guy selling the new one, VECOSELL, is the seller I've ordered all my Italian BRD's of the Dollars trilogy from. It takes a while to cross the seas, but I've gotten 'em all eventually. I see there is also an American seller selling a used one, for a dollar more, which you can obviously receive much more quickly
you can order the more expensive one in the red case http://www.amazon.com/Pugno-Dollari-Versione-Restaurata-Italian/dp/B0041KW6E8/ref=sr_1_2?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1388466440&sr=1-2&keywords=per+un+pugno+di+dollari
as I say in my review, my understanding is that no matter which one you order, the discs are identical, it's just that the one in the red case has the physical lobby cards and replica posters, etc. (which are probably in Italian). Beaver discusses the bonus features here http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/dvdreviews42/fistful_of_dollars_blu-ray.htm
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It's funny how the reception on the Internet has changed from "BluRay of the year" to a more critical view.
I haven't received the disc yet (the ebay seller I bought it from hasn't even shipped it yet, I think :-\).
Let's collect all the negative stuf that has been said about the release so far:
- bad quality English language track
- "What about me?" is actually in Italian on the English language track
- colors look faded / brownish
- around the 39/40 mark a few frames from somewhere else in the movie are randomly spliced in
- the English language track is out of sync in places
Blu-ray of the year, yes, sure.. Well I gained a lot from the internet feedback over the years, so I'm not that sad. But IT IS strange, those Blindmen (& Deaf Smith) writing such misleading money-stealing CRAP about Blu-rays..
So I finally watched it. It was wonderful to see the film that detailed again, last time I saw it in a cinema was 32 years ago. I just love that film. Does anybody know whether it was shot (more or less) chronologically? Because Steiger gets so much better as the film is unfolding (from MESA VERDE on, and especially after DEAD SONS he is quite great. That's why Leone needed him, for the sad close ups. Excellent. And much better on the big screen now :).
That said, the quality of the film out-weighted the BD's flaws, but I was distracted all the time nevertheless.
I still can't overcome the fact that this is such a sloppy BAD job. Why ? WHY ?
Yes, negatives of 'successful' films are often worn down etc. etc. But most of the classics had numerous re-releases etc. And 99% manage to get a decent restoration in the end. Why not GLT? Maybe they should have used a dub-negative or what have you. EASY RIDER for instance, here one reel of the negative was missing altogether! Watch the BD, I always forget which 4 reels are from the original negative, and which reel is from a later generation. They did such a good job with it.. GIU LA TESTA, well if I had been at a restrospective watching an old archive print, I'd say 'very nice print indeed, it survived 40 years..'. But not with CINETECA / ANDREA LEONE / RESTAURATION etc. attached to a brand new print!
The colors change all the time! Sometimes too bright (especially the first 40 minutes or so), sometimes too blueish, a lot of it is too faded, sometimes only yellow and green visible. And then suddenly some very nice-looking takes in-between! At min. 39 there is a 'ghost frame' from a previous scene (??), at min. 61 there is a jumb in a take (missing frame or two), at minute 79 the music has a disturbing knocking sound over it, the last line in Italian. Here and there visible frame line at the top (at least a sign that we see the whole picture, not cropped). What was the story with the cursing ? They curse all the time, so that's great of course. (Out of sync it's just slightly during the first 'stage coach assault' I guess)
IF the bloody negative was in such an awful shape that a better restauration was impossible, they should have included a little 'before and after restauration' featurette for everybody to see what they achieved (or not :)). So either THEY DO NOT HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE (which I can't believe really) or THEY DO NOT CARE or THEY ARE THAT ARROGANT.
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sad to hear.
those "blu ray of the year" posts may have been made by people connected to the studio. fake reviews from interested parties happen all the time
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Drink didn't you have a question about the music in the last flashback?
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yeah
so, Mike, which one is it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOc13iAmXPc
does the music stop then start again when Sean passes the girl off to Nolan, or does it continue seamlessy?
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The right one. Nice vintage soundtrack..
Oh, the other one is terrible. I never realized that, probably never even saw / heard it. Does that wrong soundtrack version have all the cursing?
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Mike, just another question. Which language version is your preferred one?
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I love French :) But not with this film...
No, the one on this BD is my favorite. Guess it's the 1971 original English soundtrack ?
English therefore :) With a lot of cursing, a bit unusual for that time, that 'fuck you's' etc., or am I wrong ?
The first 1/3 Rod Steiger is a bit too much with his not-really-mexican accent, and his German voice
works better there I feel. Coburn tries a bit too hard as well maybe. An Irish guy should
judge that (anybody?), who am I to comment on that :).
But like the film itself, the last 2/3 are just fine. The other day I really had the notion the film
was shot chronologically more or less. Leone stating he had to bring Steigers over-acting
down with numerous takes etc., it shows in the later parts of the film where he is really
really good and so is his voice (less Steigers idea of a Mexican, and more of a real human being.).
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Yes, I think the word fuck wasn't often used in the 70s in US films. Actually I don't remember any film.
I usually watch it in German. Watched the English version for the first time on new year.
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The right one. Nice vintage soundtrack..
Oh, the other one is terrible. I never realized that, probably never even saw / heard it. Does that wrong soundtrack version have all the cursing?
what do you mean "the right one"? we had big debates over which is the "right one." we have a whole thread about the differences in the soundtrack http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=10181.0
which music is in the final soundtrack? is it one continuous melody, or does it start then stop when Coburn stops kissing the girl and passes her off to the other guy?
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I wrote 'the other one is just terrible', that's of course the wrong one... The second one in the youtube clip. Just bad. Wrong music, not enough emotion comes through. I mean the sound mix of the 'right' version tells it all, with the shots from the battle fading in and out at the start & end of the flashback.
I wish I had more time, then I'd read the whole soundtrack thread.. Right now I just find the time to write some lines here and there...
I can only say: I watched the Italian BD and the only time I was distracted was during the first killings, slightly out of sync (shots, breaking glass as I recall). Or maybe sloppy dupping back in 1971?
The rest was just fine. Right music, nice foul language... It felt just right, the way I recalled it from the past.
If something with this 1971 soundtrack version is wrong, I better not read that thread here, or next time I see it will bother me :).
Right now I'm happy with that version. (The out of sync isn't that bad really, not for long and one to three two frames only maybe...)
It just feels like the original 1971 version, and that's how I want to see my classics. I don't want stereo soundtrack from the 33rpm records mixed in years later, or new gun shot sounds...
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well most of that thread is a debate over which version is correct. But the point is that it's not simply a question of correct music, it's deeper than that; the music actually explains the scene - whether the music plays continuously as the girl goes from Sean to Nolan; or whether it stops and then starts again, tells you whether or not there is harmony in this love triangle. If you don't wanna read the whole thread, just read this post http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=10181.msg148207#msg148207
the big question is which version of the music in the final flashback is the correct version that Leone intended. (Was the full final flashback actually shown in any version of the movie in 1971?)
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Received the disc today!
I'm not overly impressed by both picture and audio quality. There are shots which almost look perfect, but too often there blown out whites and rather strange grain with black dots in darker scenes.
The English soundtrack is awful - to the point where it's sometimes hard to understand what the characters say. Too bad there aren't any English subtitles, otherwise I'd watch the movie in Italian with English subs turned on in order to enjoy the music.
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Has anybody here seen any of the just-released BRD's for any film other than DYS?
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I ordered them all and have yet to receive them.
I can't find any info on GBU, which is a bit shocking. Most likely a reissue of the Mondo BD.
FAFDM has been confirmed to be a reissue of the Mondo BD.
OUATITW is the same as the Paramount BD. It might be slightly sharper based on one person's review.
That's all the info I could gather over the last few weeks.
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OUATITW is the same as the Paramount BD. It might be slightly sharper based on one person's review.
But not the main version, the Paramount version. It is the 2nd version on the Paramount Blu, the restored one with some Scorsese involvement.
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Thanks for clarifying.
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http://i39.tinypic.com/23w5ks9.jpg
Watched the movie yesterday and wanted to give you my opinion on the quality and examples that show what I mean.
Often there are blown-out whites (Juan's shirt!), although it doesn't look as drastic on this screencap as it did when I watched it (both on PC and TV). Colours often look to yellowish or washed out, like in this case.
http://i39.tinypic.com/209o70z.jpg
Grain can be overemphasized in dark scenes like this one - although I prefer this too any use of DNR, of course:
http://i43.tinypic.com/2po2vmh.jpg
Detail can be quite good during close ups.
http://i40.tinypic.com/15wgqxw.jpg
Look how strange John's darker side of the face looks... completely grey and harsh contrast.
http://i40.tinypic.com/2uxvc6w.jpg
The flashbacks look totally desaturated (especially the last one), but it's possible that they are supposed to look that way.
http://i44.tinypic.com/x3dfa0.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/2ntzg9y.jpg
Last but not least, here is a comparison of the Italian and English soundtracks. Music is identical, the quality is not.
Italian:
http://www67.zippyshare.com/v/10309203/file.html
English:
http://www67.zippyshare.com/v/42279215/file.html
http://i43.tinypic.com/2narbbm.jpg
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Please forgive my ignorance but has DUCK YOU SUCKER / A FISTFUL OF DYNAMITE been released on Blu-ray yet...?
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Please forgive my ignorance but has DUCK YOU SUCKER / A FISTFUL OF DYNAMITE been released on Blu-ray yet...?
No unfortunately not. :-[
And don't be fooled by the title of this thread nor by the screencaps and short review in the post above yours...
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yo depp 91, you gotta resize the images. This page is waaaaaay stretched out
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yo depp 91, you gotta resize the images. This page is waaaaaay stretched out
You're right, I changed it!
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Some nice caps. Made me think twice whether I have that very same BD!
I do. And those caps unfortunately don't give justice to the BD. It is the overall impression that still
makes me complain. There ARE some fine scenes (see caps :)), but a lot of awful ones too, especially
the early desert scenes are so bright it hurts. I had to adjust my TV set heavily to watch the damn thing.
Actually one should adjust the TV set from scene to scene..
Therefore I still thing it's a very bad job. Since that screening I watched about 20 more BD's from the 60s/70s,
and ALL of them where soo much better. Like ZULU, IT'S A MAD MAD WORLD, THE THING, COOGAN's BLUFF (great)...
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Therefore I still thing it's a very bad job. Since that screening I watched about 20 more BD's from the 60s/70s,
and ALL of them where soo much better. Like ZULU, IT'S A MAD MAD WORLD, THE THING, COOGAN's BLUFF (great)...
That's 4 (what were the other 16?).
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I try to remember...
GOD CREATED WOMEN, EAST OF EDEN, MAGNUM FORCE, THE ENFORCER, Z, SECONDS, MAJOR DUNDEE, CROSS OF IRON,
THAT MAN FROM RIO, QUATERMASS & THE PIT, THE OMEGA MAN, SOYLENT GREEN, LONG HOT SUMMER, NIGHT OF THE HUNTER,
LONELY ARE THE BRAVE. Maybe just 19, I lied.
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...CROSS OF IRON...
Do you still have issues with the color?
This is what the blu-ray.com review says:
Color reproduction is also excellent - the greens, brown, reds, blues, grays, and blacks look fresh and healthy (on the old R2 UK SDVD release, which uses a dated Studio Canal transfer, the film's delicate color-scheme is very problematic).
I think it looks fantastic and finally does justice to my favorite Peckinpah movie.
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Well I can understand when younger people see it for the first time (reviewers mostly) and like what they see.
But I know the film for 35 years and I have my own 35mm print which is in excellent shape. So I'm used to the colors
the film used to have :). Strong rich colors. And the blood :). Even the German Super-8 version from 1977 had those strong colors.
But that's fine, I just adjusted my TV set and it was better :). And of course the quality of the
transfer is soo good. Great fun. Soooo much better than GIU LA TESTA :)
I just watched the TEPEPA BD and when I saw the (in comparison to GIU so much better) colors of the Guadix scenes, I took a picture
with my smart phone to post it here. Then I wanted to take a picture of the GIU Guadix scene, AND THE BLOODY BD WON'T
EVEN PLAY ANY MORE! Says 'wrong region code. I tried 10x. What is this ? I switched to Code A, tried 10 US BD's - no problem. Switched back to B, tried 20 BD's from all over Europe - all played - except for GIU.
'I hate that release more and more :)
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Discs are so sensitive sissys nowadays, not as tough as in former times. Mike, try to see the positive things of the disc, make some compliments, I'm sure then it will run again ...
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I'm a much nicer person than it comes across! Take this: be my guest here at the movie house. WE have a similar taste and probably have a great time. Once you are near Stuttgart..
No, honestly. I probably tend to add comments to subjects that bug me :)
I hate talking about nothing or telling the world how great I think certain films are.
Most great work speaks for itself and if somebody doesn't like LA NOTTE he won't
change his mind just I tell him how much it affects me :)
And yes, I WAS BEING VERY NICE to that (bloody) BD! I talked to it, I carefully cleaned it (not that it was dirty),
put it on the sofa next to my Leone memorabilia I'm just restoring. And I played the (fabulous Italian) Soundtrack CD
later on... Then I mentioned how happy I am that the film is released on BD (you can't watch the DVD on big screens, no way).
I EVEN SPOKE ITALIAN. Ma questo disc non funzionare!
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Then this is really an ungrateful disc.
I would love to visit you in Stuttgart, but I doubt I will find the time the next years. Sob ...
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Sounds to me like this disc (to borrow a phrase from Robert Harris used elsewhere) is ... a coaster - With a hole in the center
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I try to remember...
GOD CREATED WOMEN, EAST OF EDEN, MAGNUM FORCE, THE ENFORCER, Z, SECONDS, MAJOR DUNDEE, CROSS OF IRON,
THAT MAN FROM RIO, QUATERMASS & THE PIT, THE OMEGA MAN, SOYLENT GREEN, LONG HOT SUMMER, NIGHT OF THE HUNTER,
LONELY ARE THE BRAVE. Maybe just 19, I lied.
These are all German BDs with good image quality?
Hey, if you get the chance, could you give your evaluation of a couple of new German BDs? (They aren't out yet, but they're coming soon). I'd like to hear what you have to say about the BDs for Monte Walsh and Violent City (Brutale Stadt).
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DUNDEE / ZULU = Twilight USA (Great quality)
Z / Seconds / Mad Mad World = Criterion. MAD MAD is superb, Z is OK (not from the negative); Seconds is a bit too grainy for my taste but a MUST HAVE.
THAT MAN FROM RIO is French (no subtitles)
The remaining titles are German releases - all excellent.
The two you mentioned I don't have yet. But they are being released by my buddy and so far his releases
are superb (Sabata, La Resa Dei Conti, Uomo a Uomo, Bandolero...)
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I don't know who James Finn is, but anyway: https://twitter.com/FinnAtFox/status/439654397744668672
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Sweeeeeeeet. Let's hope they get the audio correct.
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I'd be happy if the picture improves over what we hear of the Italian release.
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Oct. 7: http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Duck-You-Sucker-Blu-ray/83758/
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Oct. 7: http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Duck-You-Sucker-Blu-ray/83758/
Amazon is listing it for $14.99. You may want to lock in the price (you can always cancel later): http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MA151W4/
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My Blu has shipped!
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I placed the order yesterday (Sunday), which means Amazon will probably ship it today and I'll get it in a few days.
I have 3 Leone BRD's on the way and unfortunately, I'm not too excited about any of them: the new OUATIA, which from what I've been hearing is shit; the new GBU, which from what I've been hearing looks like piss; and DYS, which, from what we've heard from the Europeans on this board isn't good either
but yeah, I'm the sucker that'll buy every version of every Leone movie out there
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Blu-ray in da house!
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Get back to us when Blu Ray in da player.
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And please let us know specifically about which soundtrack they used. (if it's an MGM BRD then I assume they'll use the same soundtrack as the MGM DVD. I'm still not sure which audio is the correct one, we had a big debate about that in the "DYS soundtrack comparison" thread
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As expected . . . yellow!
And as far as I can tell, the soundtrack is the same as the one used for the previous DVD.
But the most annoying thing: I cannot access the menu. The disc starts playing the movie immediately, and I can't get to the menu even with the Disc Menu command on my remote. Frayling's commentary can be turned on, of course, because it's one of the separate audio tracks, but all the other extras that are supposed to be on the disc cannot be accessed.
MGM, you are pathetic.
MY OPEN LETTER TO THE MGM HOME VIDEO DIVISION
Dear MGM, I watched your Blu-ray. I do not have the words to adequately convey how I feel about what I saw. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a lifetime of home video viewing. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you give me my money back and apologize now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will make you read every last word of every post D&D has ever written for the Leone board. That is all.
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As expected . . . yellow!
And as far as I can tell, the soundtrack is the same as the one used for the previous DVD.
But the most annoying thing: I cannot access the menu. The disc starts playing the movie immediately, and I can't get to the menu even with the Disc Menu command on my remote. Frayling's commentary can be turned on, of course, because it's one of the separate audio tracks, but all the other extras that are supposed to be on the disc cannot be accessed.
MGM, you are pathetic.
MY OPEN LETTER TO THE MGM HOME VIDEO DIVISION
Dear MGM, I watched your Blu-ray. I do not have the words to adequately convey how I feel about what I saw. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a lifetime of home video viewing. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you give me my money back and apologize now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will make you read every last word of every post D&D has ever written for the Leone board. That is all.
you are complaining about yellow? you were the one who couldn't wait to see the yellow, you were loving the yellow for GBU before you even saw it!
how does it compare with the DVD? which do you prefer?
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So are you saying... Blu-Ray in da trash? :D
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you are complaining about yellow? you were the one who couldn't wait to see the yellow, you were loving the yellow for GBU before you even saw it!
That was then. Now it seems they want to make everything by Leone yellow. I can see doing it for GBU, and maybe for the Dollars films to package as a unit, but everything? I went back and sampled the 2011 Blu of OUATIA, and I really prefer that to the new colors. And the new DYS has Steiger's face so brown he looks truly Mexican, but even with makeup Steiger never looked like that. And the yellowing makes interiors so murky that details are lost. So I recant my previous liking for yellow.
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So are you saying... Blu-Ray in da trash? :D
;D Hmmm, yeah, maybe. . . .
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Does this mean that the maligned Italian BD is actually the best one to get?
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Hopefully this is the right place to ask this, I didn't want to start a whole new thread, and I apologize if I irritate people. I've been doing a bit of research about which Leone releases to buy on Blu-ray, and I'm still hazy on some details. What I've basically gleaned is this: for GBU, Fox have finally fixed the foul-up with the mono on the new single release (While it shouldn't have happened in the first place, kudos to them for doing so!), so outside of the controversy about the color, it sounds like a safe bet since apparently no one thinks to ever restore the theatrical cut. Though the omission of the Italian audio is immensely annoying. For FOD, there was a 4K restoration which premiered at Cannes this year for the 50th anniversary, which may find its way to video at some point (It apparently "depressed" Quentin Tarantino since it wasn't 35mm ::).) In the interim period, it sounds like the US releases are foul-up downmixes and my best bet is either the German or Italian release (Apparently one has lossless audio, the other doesn't.). For AFDM, it sounds like the German release is the best at present, maybe it'll get a restoration someday. The odd man out is DYS. Is the US release a downmix too? I've heard conflicting things. If it is, what's my best bet? Is the Italian release the proper mono, if it even included the English track? I guess I'm fine with the US release of OUATITW, I understand that actually wasn't messed up. I would like all of the extras too, those Frayling commentaries are gold, but could just get the anthology boxed set for those, probably used, for a pittance. Thanks to any answers.
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From what I've read the Italian DYS has the correct mono which includes the correct soundtrack, however it is not perfect quality and is slightly out of sync in places with the last line in Italian for some reason. However, I don't own the disc as I was waiting to hear about the MGM release first and also like to bundle any orders to save on shipping when not domestic for me.
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so I finally watched the DYS BRD from MGM. As I assumed, the music on the final flashback is the same as the SE DVD - the music stops then starts again when Sean passes the girl off to Nolan.
RE: the image quality: It really didn't seem that yellow to me. A moment before watching this, I had watched the Fox 2014 BRD of GBU, and that is awfully insanely yellow; maybe I was expecting DYS to be the same thing and when it wasn;t that bad, it didn't seem yellow to me at all. I don't know. But to me, I didn't have a problem with the look of the BRD. Whether it's an improvement or a downgrade as compared to the DVD, I'm not sure. I can't compare them side -by-side, all I could do is watch one after the other, and neither one jumped out at me as being clearly better than the other, I don't think. (Again, I have a 32" TV; maybe on a bigger screen there would be a bigger distinction.) Not that either one is amazing, but both look decent to me.
Am I totally missing the yellow here just because this isn't nearly as yellow as the GBU disc? If you compare the BRD to the DVD, is the BRD really much more yellow? Didn't seem like it to my naked eye.
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I believe you're confusing the MGM BD with the Italian (01 Distribution) BD, which is...
http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/multi_comparison.php?disc1=4957&disc2=3713&cap1=46173&cap2=34368&art=full&image=1&hd_multiID=1542&action=1&lossless=1#vergleich
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I believe you're confusing the MGM BD with the Italian (01 Distribution) BD, which is...
http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/multi_comparison.php?disc1=4957&disc2=3713&cap1=46173&cap2=34368&art=full&image=1&hd_multiID=1542&action=1&lossless=1#vergleich
I was under the impression that the MGM BRD (the only BRD of DYS ever released in America) was yellow, from this post by DJ:
As expected . . . yellow!
And as far as I can tell, the soundtrack is the same as the one used for the previous DVD.
But the most annoying thing: I cannot access the menu. The disc starts playing the movie immediately, and I can't get to the menu even with the Disc Menu command on my remote. Frayling's commentary can be turned on, of course, because it's one of the separate audio tracks, but all the other extras that are supposed to be on the disc cannot be accessed.
MGM, you are pathetic.
MY OPEN LETTER TO THE MGM HOME VIDEO DIVISION
Dear MGM, I watched your Blu-ray. I do not have the words to adequately convey how I feel about what I saw. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a lifetime of home video viewing. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you give me my money back and apologize now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will make you read every last word of every post D&D has ever written for the Leone board. That is all.
but when I just watched it, it didn't seem yellow to me. At least nothing compared to the yellowness of the new GBU BRD.
btw, in regard to DJ's point about the disc menu not coming up: It is true that when you stick the disc into the player, the main feature immediately begins playing. But you can access the menu by pressing the "Title Menu - Pop-Up" button your remote. There are two menu buttons on the remote of my SAMSUNG blu-ray player. There is a "Disc Menu" button and a "Title Menu – Pop-Up" button. When I press the former, nothing happens; but when I press the latter, the menu indeed pops up.
As a general matter, RE: those two buttons: sometimes they do the same thing, sometimes they are different. Generally, the "Disc Menu" button brings you to the "home page," the main menu; whereas the "Title Menu – Pop-up" button brings a pop-up menu onto the screen while you are watching the movie – point is, you can access the menu while you are watching the movie, rather than interrupting the movie to go back to the home screen and choose from the main menu. All the menu options are available, but rather than having to choose from a main menu home page, those menu options pop up on the screeen as you are watching the movie. IMO this is a positive, not a negative: As soon as you stick the disc into the player, the movie starts playing. No previews, no annoying nonsense. The movie starts playing immediately. And if you do want the menu (e.g. to access the bonus features) you can access them on the pop-up menu while the movie is playing.
DJ, I think you have to write MGM an apology letter.
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OK, thanks Drink, I'll try what you suggest to access the menu. But I'm not apologizing. The BD is still too yellow.
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you really think the DYS BRD looks that yellow?
The GBU looks awfully yellow. The film of FOD that we saw at MoMA looked very yellow. To me, the DYS BRD didn't look anything close to that. It really didn't jump out at me as being yellow. Maybe if I watched the DVD and BRD side-by-side, one would look more yellow to me than the other, but just watching the BRD on its own, it really didn't jump out at me as being yellow.
Just to confirm: You got the American MGM BRD, right?
Anyway, so whenever you want to watch DYS, you're gonna watch the DVD? Do you like the DVD? I think the DVD is fine (as is the BRD), in regard to the image quality. (Audio is a whole other issue, of course.)
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The DVD is fine. I'm not sure if I'm going to be watching the BD much, but now that I know I can access the menu, I might. I have yet to do a DVD/BD comparison, but I'm pretty sure the BD is yellower than the DVD. But I'll have to check to make sure.
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WTH is this? Just a straight re-release? https://www.amazon.com/Duck-You-Sucker-Blu-ray/dp/B0791Z1SYV?
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Kino:
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=301344
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I guess it's just a clean up job of the region A MGM transfer. Bad news.
The bluray format has been around for a decade now and only Leone's first western has a worthy transfer (I haven't checked out Kino's GBU disc yet).
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I guess it's just a clean up job of the region A MGM transfer. Bad news.
The bluray format has been around for a decade now and only Leone's first western has a worthy transfer (I haven't checked out Kino's GBU disc yet).
If only they could get the audio right...
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It looks like they are going to give it "A Fistful of Dynamite" as the main name. As a US distributor, I wonder why they went with the name used in all other English speaking areas instead?
Of course, as we have discussed multiple times before, both names are terrible and can't have helped its box-office receipts.
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http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews23/a_fistful_of_dynamite_blu-ray.htm
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Hmmmmm:
Special Features and Technical Specs:
•Two versions of the film presented in 1080p across two Blu-ray disc, including a transfer from the 2K restoration completed by Cineteca di Bologna in 2009.
•Optional English subtitles for the deaf and hard-of-hearing
•Original Mono Audio available on both versions
•Audio Commentary by filmmaker Alex Cox
•Audio Commentary by film historian Sir. Christopher Frayling
•A brand new and exclusive interview with film critic and writer Kim Newman
•A brand new and exclusive interview with Austin Fisher, author of Radical Frontiers in the Spaghetti Western: Politics, Violence and Popular Italian Cinema
•The Myth of Revolution: Sir Christopher Frayling on Duck, You Sucker! [22 mins]
•Sergio Donati Remembers Duck, You Sucker! [7 mins]
•Sorting Out The Versions: An Analysis of Duck, You Sucker! [12 mins]
•Once Upon A Time... in Italy [6 mins] featurette
•Restoration, Italian Style [6 mins]
•Location Comparisons [9 mins]
•Radio Spots
•Trailer
•Hardbound Slipcase
•PLUS: A LIMITED EDITION 60-PAGE Perfect Bound Collector s book featuring new and archival writing on the film
STREET DATE: NOVEMBER 25.
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Good to have the original mono, but apparently it's cut by 6 seconds to eliminate horse falls.
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Do you have the Amazon link? Thanks
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Ah great, the old out-of-date MGM transfer plus the messed up Cineteca restoration.
Stop torturing me.
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Do you have the Amazon link? Thanks
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07X37TG6R/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1
But I guess Mike is intimating that it isn't worth getting . . .
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What doesn't work for me might work for others...
I just want an as-good-as-possible restoration
of the film, which I love.
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I'm sure that's true for all of us. But if the best possible release isn't yet available, I want to own the next-best possible release. It seems to me that the MGM with original mono might meet that definition.
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UK Blu-Ray release 25th November 2019
https://www.seenit.co.uk/sergio-leones-a-fistful-of-dynamite-to-make-uk-blu-ray-debut/
Order From Amazon
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fistful-Dynamite-Masters-Limited-Blu-ray/dp/B07X37TG6R/ref=as_li_ss_tl?keywords=A+Fistful+Of+Dynamite&qid=1568372585&sr=8-1&linkCode=sl1&tag=mayor-21&linkId=7a5ab2d593348ae16ee2ac120e872b6f&language=en_GB
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I produced 4 animated galleries for the new release, incl. 320 images...
(like the ones I did for Kino Lorber)
(https://up.picr.de/36913882ks.jpg)
(https://up.picr.de/36913883jo.jpg)
(https://up.picr.de/36913885bc.jpg)
(https://up.picr.de/36913916an.jpg)
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Nice Mike!
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Leone could have played Juan.
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Leone could have played Juan.
Yea he could have.
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Leone could have played Juan.
titoli made me laugh!
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http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews23/a_fistful_of_dynamite_blu-ray.htm
Money quote:
Masters of Cinema have topped last year's Kino BD and fans will be keen to see the Giù la testa version and the Kim Newman and Austin Fisher extras as well as the 60-page booklet. Brilliant package from Masters of Cinema!
Ordered!
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Looks good.
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Good news: they enhanced the terrible pale colors of the otherwise great Cineteca restoration. Still not perfect, the negative obviousely being in bad shape, but a vast improvement. This is the release to own...
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Is the Italian version also cut by these 6 horsefall seconds? Or only the English one?
The good thing is that the Italian version comes with subs translated form the Italian version. (and with dub subs while the English version has only the latter ones)
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Is the Italian version also cut by these 6 horsefall seconds? Or only the English one?
The good thing is that the Italian version comes with subs translated form the Italian version. (and with dub subs while the English version has only the latter ones)
need a time code... I don't really care for falling horses ::)
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need a time code... I don't really care for falling horses ::)
So far I never bought a disc which was cut for censorship reasons, unless I did not know about the censoring. Similar to a wrong aspect ratio.
But I did not care for the few parts missing from the earlier FAFDM discs, but did not buy the first German GBU DVD.
The cuts should be in the bridge ambush scene, at least I remember that I read that somewhere. All UK discs are cut by these 6 sec so far, except for the first DVD, the one with the mono audio and without the final flashback.
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So the image transfer of this disc, as well as the last one, are the same as the original MGM BRD?
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The set has 2 discs with 2 versions, one based on the MGM master, and the other one taken from the Italian master. When the look of the Italian master, according to Mike, has been changed, then they probably also worked on the colors of the MGM master. Maybe a bit less yellow?
It also seems that there are some more differences between the Italian version and the MGM one. Maybe some alternative shots, or some slightly different edited scenes, or a different scoring in some scenes. At least the runtimes are different, but I think overall it is nothing of importance.
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What about the music/dialogue? Same as the MGM? Or the earlier version?
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Well, I can only guess, but they use only the original mono audio, so everything should be allright.
But actually, I long lost track what was were and why wrong ...
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Well, I can only guess, but they use only the original mono audio, so everything should be allright.
But actually, I long lost track what was were and why wrong ...
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=10181.0
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Helpful: https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=48926
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In da house!
Haven't had a chance to check the discs, but the 60-page booklet is quite a treat. Three articles (one by Simon Ward, two by Howard Hughes) and one interview with the guy who made the original"A Fistful of Dynamite" poster (Robert McGinnis, still alive at 93). All the pieces are new (2019), published for the booklet. There are a number of photos, some in b&w, some in color, some well-known, some seen by me for the first time. Some poster art/ lobby cards are included, also the illustration for the "novelisation." The front cover features the McGinnis artwork without any words.
The disc case has reversible cover art: you can either use the "A Fistful of Dynamite" side (McGinnis art) or the "Giu' la Testa" side (Italian poster art).
Wow, the booklet alone is worth the price of admission (to coin a phrase).
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As everybody on this board knows, there are two different English-language versions of the Juan-against-the-wall scene. That's the scene where Mallory rescues him from the firing squad by blowing up the wall and then swooping in to pick him up on his motorcycle. Just before blowing the wall Mallory gives Juan a heads up, by first whistling his theme, and then speaking a warning. In one version the warning is "Short fuse" but in others it is "Duck, you sucker."
Years ago when I had the MGM laserdisc I had audio that provided the "Short fuse" warning. On subsequent home video versions I think we've been getting the "Duck, you sucker" comment. I just checked, and that is what's on the audio of both the MGM blu and the Kino blu. The new UK import from Masters of Cinema, with the original English mono, has "short fuse."
Interestingly, the disc with the Italian language version also uses "short fuse" (or words to that effect . . . something something cord.) Is there any alternative Italian language versions? If not, I'm going to assume SL wanted "short fuse" and that the use of "Duck, you sucker" was a later John Kirk substitution.
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Watched the supplements last night. Props are due Mike Siegel, whose copies of production prints were used in 3 featurettes, with an additional segment dedicated to the posters and lobby cards in his collection. The images are truly beautiful, a real treat to view. Thanks so much, Mike!
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Thanks Dave! Originally I had planned to produce these 4 featurettes for the US KINO Blu-ray (I had produced similar featurettes for all three KINO Dollar Blu-ray's), but they forgot to tell me about a release date so it was too late... I'm glad they saw the light of day now anyway, thanks to EUREKA!
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As everybody on this board knows, there are two different English-language versions of the Juan-against-the-wall scene. That's the scene where Mallory rescues him from the firing squad by blowing up the wall and then swooping in to pick him up on his motorcycle. Just before blowing the wall Mallory gives Juan a heads up, by first whistling his theme, and then speaking a warning. In one version the warning is "Short fuse" but in others it is "Duck, you sucker."
Years ago when I had the MGM laserdisc I had audio that provided the "Short fuse" warning. On subsequent home video versions I think we've been getting the "Duck, you sucker" comment. I just checked, and that is what's on the audio of both the MGM blu and the Kino blu. The new UK import from Masters of Cinema, with the original English mono, has "short fuse."
Interestingly, the disc with the Italian language version also uses "short fuse" (or words to that effect . . . something something cord.) Is there any alternative Italian language versions? If not, I'm going to assume SL wanted "short fuse" and that the use of "Duck, you sucker" was a later John Kirk substitution.
For the record, the French version, supervised by Leone, says "short fuse" (m?che courte). But I don't think it tells us anything, as "DYS" wouldn't make any sense in French.
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It's hardly idiomatic in English either.
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Yeah but it isn't even the title in the French version.
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I know, the French title is definitely the best. And was, at least, what Leone wanted (whether it was original intent or not, as we've discussed elsewhere)
Surely, however, there is a somewhat idiomatic way to say "keep your head down" in French? I suppose "baisse la t?te" would mean more like "hang the head low" though?
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Baisse la t?te would work great in a literal way (it is actual french) and would also (somewhat) work in metaphorical way, but it doesn't sound great.
"Baisse la t?te, ducon/cr?tin/connard" would sound a bit better but I wouldn't know how to direct an actor to say it and make it sound good. It's probably doable with talented voice actors though.
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Apparently, KL is bringing this out on 4KUHD. Not sure when.
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Three years without a comment!
Guess this film has fallen from favor.
Even I don't love it as much as I used to- except for the music.
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Three years without a comment!
Guess this film has fallen from favor.
Even I don't love it as much as I used to- except for the music.
It way better than most of what they are making nowadays, lol.
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It's a unique film for sure.
I guess the pacing issues seem more obvious to me in my maturity.
Also, I didn't get that Leone was satirising the leftist filmmakers of the era. Now, this element detracts from the film a bit.
The last part of the film, from the arrival in Mesa Verde, is Leone at his peak!
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Hmm, but the directing of the train assault is mediocre. No match for the brilliant mass shoot-outs in Corbucci's The Mercenary and Companeros.
And The Mercenary too can be viewed as a parodic comment on political westerns (and films)
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That shouldn?t distract you from the fact this is one the most powerful movies ever made, though.
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It is one of the reasons that DYS is not a powerful film. There are others.
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It is one of the reasons that DYS is not a powerful film. There are others.
It is incredibly powerful though so you're wrong, again.
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That shouldn?t distract you from the fact this is one the most powerful movies ever made, though.
I agree one hundred percent! It's the one Leone film that is genuinely moving. Its really Morricone' s music that makes the film so effective.
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I agree one hundred percent! It's the one Leone film that is genuinely moving. Its really Morricone' s music that makes the film so effective.
It also has some scenes specifically designed to move you, like the trucks scene under the rain.
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For me Leone films were never really moving, and that's quite a problem for OuTA. But not for DYS, not for his other westerns. The problems for DYS are that I don't think that Leone really was interested in making it, and that shows. DYS shows how much he had developed his style since Fod (or that Pompeji film), but it lacks the brilliance of its 2 predecessors. A brilliance I can find at least in several scene of his early westerns, as a result I prefer the first 2 Dollar films to DYS. Not to mention MNIN ...
With DYS Leone was not longer ahead of the other SWs, for the first time he made something others had already successfully made before him.
Ohh, I forgot, Cheyenne's death, that was moving to a certain degree. Apart from that I always hope that LvC and Fonda win their final duels in GBU and OuTW, but it is not exactly moving that they don't do.
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For me Leone films were never really moving, and that's quite a problem for OuTA. But not for DYS, not for his other westerns.
Somebody please ban this communazi.
I strongly disagree: FFDM, OUATITW, DYS and OUATIA are deeply moving but only if you aren't a psycho or a robot. Even GBU has its moments (as well as MNIN of course).
The problems for DYS are that I don't think that Leone really was interested in making it, and that shows. DYS shows how much he had developed his style since Fod (or that Pompeji film), but it lacks the brilliance of its 2 predecessors. A brilliance I can find at least in several scene of his early westerns, as a result I prefer the first 2 Dollar films to DYS.
I am convinced you wouldn't think that had Tonino Delli Colli been in charge of the cinematography of DYS.
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I am convinced you wouldn't think that had Tonino Delli Colli been in charge of the cinematography of DYS.
No, surely not.
I have no problems with the photography of DYS, and the DoPs are unlike the directors barely responsible for a films greatness, unless they did the director's job. What sometimes happens.
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No, surely not.
I have no problems with the photography of DYS, and the DoPs are unlike the directors barely responsible for a films greatness, unless they did the director's job. What sometimes happens.
I know that's what you believe but you're seriously mistaken on this one. The history of cinema proves you wrong. More precisely, here, DYS is greatly hurt by this (especially given the way it was produced, as we know)
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It is incredibly powerful though so you're wrong, again.
Yeah!
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Are folks here REALLY judging the quality of DYS by who the DOP was?
Gimme an effing break! >:(
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Are folks here REALLY judging the quality of DYS by who the DOP was?
Gimme an effing break! >:(
It goes the other way around. Most people, including very knowledgable movie people, unerestimate how the technical stuff impacts their viewing experience. I'm convinced many people including Stanton are buggued by something in DYS that they cannot put their finger on and it turns out it's the cinematography. More precisely the lighting.
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No, it surely has not much to do with what DoP can improve or not. For me DYS and Nobody look as good as GBU and OuTW, which looks better than GBU, and all look better than FoD and FaFDM.
What's wrong is that the film has some storytelling problems in the first half, DYS has a length problem, and the 2 big action scenes (bridge and train) are mediocre, and the characters are not that interesting. The overdone western stuff works here less well than in his "real" westerns.
DyS was underrated for some decades, and becomes now an overrated film for the pure fact that the name of the director is Leone. It would be a footnote in film history if the exact same film would have been credited to Santi.
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No, it surely has not much to do with what DoP can improve or not. For me DYS and nobody look as good as GBU and OuTW, which looks better than GBU, and all look better than FoD and FaFDM.
What's wrong is that the film has some storytelling problems in the first half, DYS has a length problem, and the 2 big action scenes (bridge and train) are mediocre, and the characters are not that that interesting. The overdone western stuff works here less well thanin his "real" westerns.
DyS was underrated for some decades, and becomes now an overrated film for the pure fact that the name of the director is Leone. It would be a footnote in film history if the exact same film would have been credited to Santi.
I think it has more to do with the various factors involved before production. Leone originally wanted Wallach as Juan, when that didn't happen didn't he try to have Valeri direct it then when the investors balked about that had to step in? I don't over rate it. My Leone Line up goes GBU, OUTITW and FAFDM, then the rest OUTIA, DYS, AFFOD, COR.
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It goes the other way around. Most people, including very knowledgable movie people, unerestimate how the technical stuff impacts their viewing experience. I'm convinced many people including Stanton are buggued by something in DYS that they cannot put their finger on and it turns out it's the cinematography. More precisely the lighting.
I agree with the first statement here. I think you?re being a tad harsh on Giuseppe Ruzzolini here though.
I was watching an interesting interview with Roger Deakins the other day where he said it was a shame Alex Cox stopped making big budget stuff. There?s still time for him to pair up with Deakins again though. Unfortunately not with Robby M?ller anymore though.
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He wanted his assistant Giancarlo Santi as director, but who then should direct DYS like Leone wanted the film to be directed. He wanted to be the producer who controls a film, like Selznick did with Gone with the Wind. He then was forced after protests by the actors, especially by Steiger, to direct the film officially. Some think that this was what he intended from the beginning on.
He then tried this producer-as-the-real-creative-force thing again with MNIN.
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That whole troubled prep work is responsible for most of the flaws of the movie (the other flaw being Leone not being as smart as he thought he was politically speaking). But those flaws are greatly increased, not by a bad cinematography, but by the lack of the greatest daylight cinematographer of that time. Delli Colli would have soften the rough edges and immensely decreased the feeling of "overal mess" that comes with that movie.
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(the other flaw being Leone not being as smart as he thought he was politically speaking)
i.e., not sufficiently Left for our comrade n_l
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i.e., not sufficiently Left for our comrade n_l
Haha no he could be very rightwing for that matter, I read and watch everything! I just don't want him to be dumb. The movie isn't dumb but it does clearly punch above Leone's political weight. It thinks it's saying something very deep with Juan's monologue and it's actually pretty basic. So basic and that I'd be surprised if Bakunin had not adressed that question, it's anarchism 101.
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It's really only the opening scene - from the quotation of Marx thru the crash of the coach - that Leone is blatantly poking fun at the leftist directors then working in Italy. They probably deserved to have their pretensions deflated a bit, but Leone didn't handle the matter with much subtlety or wit. I grew up with the American version so much of this subtext was missing until the original version was released.
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Hey its the first ever depiction of Western trailer trash.
(https://i.imgur.com/G6W9AEb.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/HDd2FXe.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/MYPVs52.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/1wscKEF.png)
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It's really only the opening scene - from the quotation of Marx thru the crash of the coach - that Leone is blatantly poking fun at the leftist directors then working in Italy. They probably deserved to have their pretensions deflated a bit, but Leone didn't handle the matter with much subtlety or wit. I grew up with the American version so much of this subtext was missing until the original version was released.
What was missing in the beginning from the American version?
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Re: politics: Leone can probably best be described as a left-libertarian.
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What was missing in the beginning from the American version?
The quotation by Mao was not included.
Also the rape scene was truncated. Iirc it deleted the part where the women indicates her enjoyment at being ravaged ( and excitement at Juan' s appendage).
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Re: politics: Leone can probably best be described as a left-libertarian.
Leone explicitly or implicitly criticized war, organized religion and capitalism in his Western films.
But, in DYS he seems skeptical of the left /Marxist/ communists , class based struggle to solve these problems.
" I just want the money".
- Juan ( Rod Steiger)
😆