Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => The Good, The Bad and The Ugly => Topic started by: Lil Brutto on August 20, 2014, 11:29:17 PM



Title: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 20, 2014, 11:29:17 PM
For the life of me I can't find it anywhere. I know it's the desert scene. Please help.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/trailerparkboy/BBC-desert-frame_zps54544540.jpg)


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 21, 2014, 03:05:52 AM
I checked through the whole desert scene, and it doesn't appear there. must be a deleted scene. Where'd ya find this frame?


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Cusser on August 21, 2014, 07:14:10 AM
Looks like the bones of the last guy who double-crossed Tuco !!!!


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 21, 2014, 09:32:23 AM
I checked through the whole desert scene, and it doesn't appear there. must be a deleted scene. Where'd ya find this frame?

It's included in an Italian 35MM print at the end of reel 3 and immediately precedes this scene:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/trailerparkboy/BBCdesert2_zps64d3698b.jpg)


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: stanton on August 21, 2014, 12:11:43 PM
If it is only one frame, then maybe the cutter made a mistake, and it is a leftover from an unused shot.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 21, 2014, 12:21:50 PM
If it is only one frame, then maybe the cutter made a mistake, and it is a leftover from an unused shot.

There are several frames in the pic I received:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/trailerparkboy/BBCdesertframes_zpsba95bd09.jpg)


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: noodles_leone on August 21, 2014, 01:29:47 PM
Who sent you these pics?


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 21, 2014, 03:20:27 PM
Who sent you these pics?

There's a group of us over at originaltrilogy.com who are in the process of acquiring a 1971 IB tech print of Il Buono Il Brutto Il Cattivo from a seller in Italy. IB tech prints are known to be fade proof and therefore reflects the actual timing during the film's original theatrical release. Once acquired, this print will be scanned at 4K and used to regrade the colours of the highly controversial MGM 4K BD that has a (piss) yellow/teal push that's a popular trend nowadays.

There's a small yet highly passionate and devoted group of us that strongly believe this film has been done a disservice by MGM for over a decade. We've decided to take matters into our own hands and invest our time and money into producing a PROPER home release that this film strongly deserves. If you wish to contribute to this endeavour I will be starting a new thread there very soon. We could use all the help we can get.

Here's a link to the current thread if you'd like to bring yourself up to speed:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/The-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-4k-nightmare/topic/16690/


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Jordan Krug on August 22, 2014, 05:12:33 PM
Wow, if this print has shots not in the current known versions of the film....wouldn't that be the find of the year


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 22, 2014, 09:13:43 PM
Wow, if this print has shots not in the current known versions of the film....wouldn't that be the find of the year

Absolutely!


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 23, 2014, 10:19:00 PM
so you obviously don't like any of the three BRD's out there now (the MGM US, the Mondo, or the new yellow one).
But of the three, which do you like the best? Can you describe a little of what is best/worst about each?

also, what about the various DVD's? the original MGM DVD from 1997 (the 161-min. version) looks like it had no real restoration, plenty of damage - but if you think the restorers screwed up, then maybe the restoration is not a good thing, maybe you like that disc? Or the MGM Special Edition DVD, which had a restoration but definitely has lots more grain than the BRD? (I don't know anything about any of the European DVD's ... I currently own both MGM American DVD's, the MGM BRD, the Mondo BRD, and I'll buy the new piss-yellow BRD once it's released in solo version in October)


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: noodles_leone on August 24, 2014, 04:37:21 AM
There's a group of us over at originaltrilogy.com who are in the process of acquiring a 1971 IB tech print of Il Buono Il Brutto Il Cattivo from a seller in Italy. IB tech prints are known to be fade proof and therefore reflects the actual timing during the film's original theatrical release. Once acquired, this print will be scanned at 4K and used to regrade the colours of the highly controversial MGM 4K BD that has a (piss) yellow/teal push that's a popular trend nowadays.

There's a small yet highly passionate and devoted group of us that strongly believe this film has been done a disservice by MGM for over a decade. We've decided to take matters into our own hands and invest our time and money into producing a PROPER home release that this film strongly deserves. If you wish to contribute to this endeavour I will be starting a new thread there very soon. We could use all the help we can get.

Here's a link to the current thread if you'd like to bring yourself up to speed:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/The-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-4k-nightmare/topic/16690/

Great project my friend!  O0
What kind of help are you looking for?


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 24, 2014, 12:02:42 PM
Financial.

A member @ OT will scan it for free, which is a HUGE (on the order of thousands of dollars) savings.  This project would never happen otherwise. I will pay for the print ($1600) but we don't have the funds to cover the cost of shipping ($300) and 16-20TB of HDD space ($600?).

There are several members who are willing to donate money to this project but we still need more funds.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: stanton on August 24, 2014, 01:10:37 PM
Why not wait for the next Italian Blu? Which surely will be a 4K remaster, and surely will appear in about 1 - 3  years.
What's wrong with the recent Italian Blu, apart from being taken from a 2K scan? Most people who are critical with the new MGM Blu are praising the Italian colors.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Jordan Krug on August 24, 2014, 06:29:02 PM
Financial.

poita @ OT will scan the print for free, which is a HUGE (on the order of thousands of dollars) savings.  This project would never happen without access to his scanner. I will pay for the print ($1600) but we don't have the funds to cover the cost of shipping ($300) and 16-20TB of HDD space ($600?).

There are several members who are willing to donate money to this project but we still need more funds.

I'm still willing to contribute...if it's possible that this has alternate shots we can't let it get away!


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 25, 2014, 05:05:19 AM
You doing this as a fan thing, or trying for an official release - you'd have to get di$stribuution right$ for that, no?

Did you contact any of the organizations that may be interested (e.g. The Film Foundation, Andrea Leone Films .... )?




Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 25, 2014, 10:02:59 AM
so you obviously don't like any of the three BRD's out there now (the MGM US, the Mondo, or the new yellow one).
But of the three, which do you like the best? Can you describe a little of what is best/worst about each?

The 2009 MGM BD is absolutely horrible for obvious reasons. The 2014 MGM BD colors are screwed up but that can largely be fixed (and has been to some extent by an OT member) with editing software. What cannot be fixed are the overly dark and high contrast scenes. The information lost in the excessively black areas cannot be recovered. I really like the Mondo BD and it is my "go to" source for the Italian cut. The PQ is good and the color timing is pleasing. I suspect the colors are consistent with the original theatrical release; the IB tech print will verify this. However, the Mondo transfer has its flaws. There's the issue with the "jumping frames" and ultimately it's a dated transfer.

also, what about the various DVD's? the original MGM DVD from 1997 (the 161-min. version) looks like it had no real restoration, plenty of damage - but if you think the restorers screwed up, then maybe the restoration is not a good thing, maybe you like that disc?

I consider Il Buono Il Brutto Il Cattivo (BBC) and The Good The Bad & The Ugly (GBU) as 2 separate films given the nature of their original theatrical release. Although I appreciate the effort I believe the extended English language version is inferior to the US International cut available on the 1998 MGM DVD and 1990/1993/1998 MGM LD. The studio seems hell bent on treating the US cut as if it doesn't exist, which I feel is wrong. So my answer is I prefer watching GBU on LD with all the print damage (adds charm!) and ORIGINAL lossless PCM mono audio. The 1998 DVD is fine too. Keep in mind I'm talking official releases not fan/hybrid cuts etc.

You doing this as a fan thing, or trying for an official release - you'd have to get di$stribuution right$ for that, no?

This will be a fan preservation.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 25, 2014, 10:13:08 AM
Why not wait for the next Italian Blu? Which surely will be a 4K remaster, and surely will appear in about 1 - 3  years.
What's wrong with the recent Italian Blu, apart from being taken from a 2K scan? Most people who are critical with the new MGM Blu are praising the Italian colors.

If you've read all the bickering in the thread at bluray.com then you probably picked up on those who praise the new MGM blu believe the colors of the 4K transfer are more faithful to SL's intent because Sergio Salvati said so. I think that's pure nonsense but opinions don't hold any weight in such heated debates. However, evidence does. That evidence will come in the form of an unfaded IB tech print of BBC from the original theatrical run.

The cool thing is we've already identified one scene that's unique to this print and hasn't been seen in any home release (VHS, LD, DVD, BD) in the last 30 years.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 25, 2014, 10:14:12 AM
I'm still willing to contribute...if it's possible that this has alternate shots we can't let it get away!

I already let the seller know we'll take it. Just need to iron out the details. Hoping to hear back from him soon.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 25, 2014, 12:33:05 PM

I consider Il Buono Il Brutto Il Cattivo (BBC) and The Good The Bad & The Ugly (GBU) as 2 separate films given the nature of their original theatrical release. Although I appreciate the effort I believe the extended English language version is inferior to the US International cut available on the 1998 MGM DVD and 1990/1993/1998 MGM LD. The studio seems hell bent on treating the US cut as if it doesn't exist, which I feel is wrong. So my answer is I prefer watching GBU on LD with all the print damage (adds charm!) and ORIGINAL lossless PCM mono audio. The 1998 DVD is fine too. Keep in mind I'm talking official releases not fan/hybrid cuts etc.



the whole "print damage adds charm" is a bunch of hooey. sounds like people simply liking something cuz it's "old" and "what I am used to" - if we're wanna follow Leone's intent, when the movie was first released, well it wasn't released with print damage and he wasn't intending it be viewed that way. what I mean to say is, the changes MGM made to the BRD's may have been undesirable, but all the damage marks on early dvd's are undesirable as well. and btw, talking about Leone's intent, I wouldn't disregard the 177-min. version. He surely didn't prefer the 161-min. version. Again, this is something that people get usd to over the decades so they feel it is more authentic, despite the fact that if Leone had his way, it obviously would have been released in 177 min. version in the US.
you can debate whether the re-dubbed voices are a good idea, or whether they should have just Italian dialogue with subtitles for those scenes, but of you wanna get at Leone's intent, the movie is 177 min. long, not 161 (or 148 for the Brits).

Anyway, I don't mean to get off-topic, debating the various cuts, all I'm saying is that if we wanna get at Leone's intent, we should do so for real, what we think he wanted in 1967, and not add in the mistakes we have been used to for 35 years ...  ;)


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: stanton on August 25, 2014, 01:12:18 PM
the whole "print damage adds charm" is a bunch of hooey. sounds like people simply liking something cuz it's "old" and "what I am used to" - if we're wanna follow Leone's intent, when the movie was first released, well it wasn't released with print damage and he wasn't intending it be viewed that way. what I mean to say is, the changes MGM made to the BRD's may have been undesirable, but all the damage marks on early dvd's are undesirable as well. and btw, talking about Leone's intent, I wouldn't disregard the 177-min. version. He surely didn't prefer the 161-min. version. Again, this is something that people get usd to over the decades so they feel it is more authentic, despite the fact that if Leone had his way, it obviously would have been released in 177 min. version in the US.


Well, 174 min. The cave scene does not belong in the film. But yes, that's Sergio's version .


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: stanton on August 25, 2014, 01:14:45 PM
That evidence will come in the form of an unfaded IB tech print of BBC from the original theatrical run.


Hmm, ok, but doesn't it look faded, or are the pics on page 1 not representative??


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 25, 2014, 01:24:16 PM
If a print exists that still has the colors looking exactly as they did when the movie was released, why didn't MGM and/or Mondo use it to get accrate colors for the BRD, instead of relying on a vague statement from a camera assistant's memory that Leone wanted the movie to look like piss? Was the existence of this print a secret until now? Did MGM/Mondo not know or give a damn about this?


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 25, 2014, 01:27:27 PM
Stanton, yes you are correct, I should have said the 177-min. version minus the Cave scene. (although do we really whether or not Leone wanted the full beating scene in there? If it's missinng even from Italian versions of the movie, does that necessarily mean he didn't want it in there? Did he have full authority over the final Italian cut or did he have to capitulate to distributors' desires to cut the film even in Italy?)


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 25, 2014, 01:37:09 PM
the whole "print damage adds charm" is a bunch of hooey. sounds like people simply liking something cuz it's "old" and "what I am used to" - if we're wanna follow Leone's intent, when the movie was first released, well it wasn't released with print damage and he wasn't intending it be viewed that way. what I mean to say is, the changes MGM made to the BRD's may have been undesirable, but all the damage marks on early dvd's are undesirable as well. and btw, talking about Leone's intent, I wouldn't disregard the 177-min. version. He surely didn't prefer the 161-min. version. Again, this is something that people get usd to over the decades so they feel it is more authentic, despite the fact that if Leone had his way, it obviously would have been released in 177 min. version in the US.
you can debate whether the re-dubbed voices are a good idea, or whether they should have just Italian dialogue with subtitles for those scenes, but of you wanna get at Leone's intent, the movie is 177 min. long, not 161 (or 148 for the Brits).

Anyway, I don't mean to get off-topic, debating the various cuts, all I'm saying is that if we wanna get at Leone's intent, we should do so for real, what we think he wanted in 1967, and not add in the mistakes we have been used to for 35 years ...  ;)

It's a 50 year old movie and I first watched it 30 years ago with all it's print damage glory. If you think my preference is "hooey" so be it. I like having both the beat up version and a pristinely restored version.

Bottom line is there are 2 cuts of this film. A decade ago MGM failed at preserving an English version of the Italian cut, partly due to circumstance (actors being dead or 40 years older) and partly due to poor judgment (foley effects, cave scene, etc). It would have worked if they had a complete English language track from the 60's but it doesn't exist.

The original theatrical release in English is the US/International cut. Nothing to debate there. It's fact. Fans demand this cut but MGM isn't listening and therefore we will preserve it ourselves.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: stanton on August 25, 2014, 01:39:44 PM
Stanton, yes you are correct, I should have said the 177-min. version minus the Cave scene. (although do we really whether or not Leone wanted the full beating scene in there? If it's missinng even from Italian versions of the movie, does that necessarily mean he didn't want it in there? Did he have full authority over the final Italian cut or did he have to capitulate to distributors' desires to cut the film even in Italy?)

We don't know, but he never tried to restore that scene. Actually it is too long imo anyway. The shorter one, is the better one.

According to De Fonari in the early 80s Il buono was restored to its full length, cause it seems that after its initial release, or at least in the 70s it was distributed in shorter versions. I think if Sergio wanted stuff like the cave scene to be officially part of the film, that was the chance.

One question to Lil brutto: Is the short scene towards the end in your print, the one in which Eastwood says Sorry Tuco before he leaves him, cause that short scene is so far missing in all Italian DVD versions.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 25, 2014, 01:46:01 PM
Hmm, ok, but doesn't it look faded, or are the pics on page 1 not representative??

They're not representative. The print is good overall condition and the colors are intact and unfaded. There are scratches etc but that doesn't affect it's primary function as a color source for accurately regrading BDs.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 25, 2014, 02:09:56 PM
One question to Lil brutto: Is the short scene towards the end in your print, the one in which Eastwood says Sorry Tuco before he leaves him, cause that short scene is so far missing in all Italian DVD versions.

That's a great question. Unfortunately, I won't find out until we receive the print.

Interestingly, that scene is in the original Italian mono track included on the MGM DVD.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 25, 2014, 02:11:50 PM
@ Lil Brutto: The 161MV IS available, on the DVD released by MGM in 1997 or 1998. No, it is not available on BRD, but it is available on that DVD - which is all beat up, per your preferences, and which also has as a bonus feature the extra scenes, not including the Cave Scene, with Italian audio and English subtitles. For someone who prefers the 161MV, beat up, with the extra scenes in original Italian audio as a bonus feature and not part of the film itself, this should be the ideal cut.
And it is available for literally pennies used on Amazon.



Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 25, 2014, 02:20:39 PM
If a print exists that still has the colors looking exactly as they did when the movie was released, why didn't MGM and/or Mondo use it to get accrate colors for the BRD, instead of relying on a vague statement from a camera assistant's memory that Leone wanted the movie to look like piss? Was the existence of this print a secret until now? Did MGM/Mondo not know or give a damn about this?


MGM 2009, MGM 2014 and Mondo 2009 BDs are all struck from different masters. Apparently MGM 2014 used prints as a colour reference but somehow  the BD turned out looking like a modern film with all it's piss/teal glory. The restoration effort found on the Mondo BD also used prints as a reference point. Both restorations claim to have used IB tech prints as a colour reference yet the outcome is extremely different. I put my money on the Mondo restoration as being more faithful to the original presentation.

IB tech prints exist but they're extremely hard to come by. This is a rare opportunity.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 25, 2014, 02:26:25 PM
@ Lil Brutto: The 161MV IS available, on the DVD released by MGM in 1997 or 1998. No, it is not available on BRD, but it is available on that DVD - which is all beat up, per your preferences, and which also has as a bonus feature the extra scenes, not including the Cave Scene, with Italian audio and English subtitles. For someone who prefers the 161MV, beat up, with the extra scenes in original Italian audio as a bonus feature and not part of the film itself, this should be the ideal cut.
And it is available for literally pennies used on Amazon.

Yup, I got it.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 25, 2014, 02:58:16 PM
All 3 BRD's used IB prints, yet the outcomes were different? Wouldn't that mean that the various prints looked different, meaning they do fade eventually? Or did they even look different in 1967? Or did MGM/Mondo change the look significantly from the prints the got?
I am not doubting your work/beliefs, I think it is awesome if you can restore it; the point I am trying to get at it is that if these prints are the holy grail and look just like the movie is supposed to look - and surely MGM/Mondo have the money connections to get their hands on one of the rare prints - why didn't they get one of these prints and KEEP THE COLOR AS THEY FOUND IT, instead of screwing around with the color? Is it an immuutable fact that these colors stay the same since 1967? If so, shouldn't MGM/Mondo have simply cleaned up the dirt/scratches etc. but not screwed with the color? Do you know something they don't about the colors being accurate, or is it disputed whether or not these colors are accurate? (again, this question only starts if all 1967 prints, pre-fading, looked the same, of course ;) )


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 25, 2014, 03:17:58 PM
All 3 BRD's used IB prints, yet the outcomes were different? Wouldn't that mean that the various prints looked different, meaning they do fade eventually? Or did they even look different in 1967? Or did MGM/Mondo change the look significantly from the prints the got?
I am not doubting your work/beliefs, I think it is awesome if you can restore it; the point I am trying to get at it is that if these prints are the holy grail and look just like the movie is supposed to look - and surely MGM/Mondo have the money connections to get their hands on one of the rare prints - why didn't they get one of these prints and KEEP THE COLOR AS THEY FOUND IT, instead of screwing around with the color? Is it an immuutable fact that these colors stay the same since 1967? If so, shouldn't MGM/Mondo have simply cleaned up the dirt/scratches etc. but not screwed with the color? Do you know something they don't about the colors being accurate, or is it disputed whether or not these colors are accurate? (again, this question only starts if all 1967 prints, pre-fading, looked the same, of course ;) )

Based on my research the dye transfer process - or "imbibition" - used for I.B. Tech prints is low- or no-fade because the dyes are very stable and do not degrade (or degrade very little) over time. You're right, they should have left the colour as they found it.

Undoubtedly there's going to be some variation from print to print but nothing that would explain the huge difference between the Mondo and MGM 4K BDs. It's inevitable that the Italians will release their own 4K BD. Based on the Leone Film Group trailer and screenshots posted last month in promotion of the Italian theatrical re-release it's likely the same master as the 4K MGM BD (not surprising since both parties were involved in the latest restoration effort) yet the colours are much better. So what the heck is going on? I suspect there's some tinkering of colors going on at MGM after the fact. Perhaps even after getting Sergio Salvati's stamp of approval.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 25, 2014, 04:10:40 PM
Which colors do you prefer: the original MGM DVD from 1997, or the Mondo BRD?


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 25, 2014, 04:56:37 PM
Which colors do you prefer: the original MGM DVD from 1997, or the Mondo BRD?

I prefer Mondo.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: noodles_leone on August 25, 2014, 05:30:12 PM
All 3 BRD's used IB prints, yet the outcomes were different? Wouldn't that mean that the various prints looked different, meaning they do fade eventually? Or did they even look different in 1967? Or did MGM/Mondo change the look significantly from the prints the got?
I am not doubting your work/beliefs, I think it is awesome if you can restore it; the point I am trying to get at it is that if these prints are the holy grail and look just like the movie is supposed to look - and surely MGM/Mondo have the money connections to get their hands on one of the rare prints - why didn't they get one of these prints and KEEP THE COLOR AS THEY FOUND IT, instead of screwing around with the color? Is it an immuutable fact that these colors stay the same since 1967? If so, shouldn't MGM/Mondo have simply cleaned up the dirt/scratches etc. but not screwed with the color? Do you know something they don't about the colors being accurate, or is it disputed whether or not these colors are accurate? (again, this question only starts if all 1967 prints, pre-fading, looked the same, of course ;) )

There is no such thing as "accurate colors" when you transfer analog to digital (or digital to analog). It is by nature an interpretation of colors and human choices have to be made. Sure, that doesn't explain the huge changes between mondo and MGM BDs but different transfers lead to different colors.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 25, 2014, 06:32:35 PM
I have the Mondo BRD's of GBU and FAFDM, but unfortunately they don't have English audio. (The Ripley's BRD of FOD does.) I remember something a while ago about somebody making a fan mix of English audio with the Mondo BRD .... Unfortunately I still haven't been able to get my hand$ on a copy of that fan edit. If $omeone can help me out with that, I $ure would me mo$t appreciative of their $ervice ;)









Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 30, 2014, 04:08:04 PM
I'm still willing to contribute...if it's possible that this has alternate shots we can't let it get away!

Folks, we're ready to move forward with the purchase of the IB tech print from Italy.

I started a new thread on this project. For more information please click on the link below. :

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/The-Good-The-Bad-The-Ugly-35MM-IB-Tech-Preservation/topic/17006/

I've been told acquiring this print is probably a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. If you're willing/able to contribute funds, please send to: eurospec19@gmailDOTcom

Thanks!


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: stanton on August 31, 2014, 04:54:49 AM
Wait, you say this is an Italian IB print with the English 161 min version. Not the Italian theatrical version?

Or it is the Italain version, but you want to create a Tijuana Edition of this with the English mono audio and the runtime of the International version?


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 31, 2014, 09:34:52 AM
This is an IB Tech of the Italian cut. It's primary purpose is to serve as a colour reference for regrading the 4K bluray.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: drinkanddestroy on September 01, 2014, 02:13:30 PM
So you could mae dvd/brd's of this film and put the English audio from the MGM dvd/brd on it?


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on September 01, 2014, 02:49:20 PM
So you could mae dvd/brd's of this film and put the English audio from the MGM dvd/brd on it?

Correct. We'll be using the English audio from the 1998 MGM laserdisc, which is the same as the 1998 DVD audio track. It sounds fuller/better because it's lossless.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Clinton on September 03, 2014, 05:41:27 AM
Wow, this is an amazing shot!! This shot is described in the original Italian script! Below is the relevant part of the script:

"The heat has worn Blondie down. Nevertheless, he seems to have noticed that Tuco has fallen into a light sleep under his sunshade . . . Blondie looks around as if he is searching for something. About 10 meters in front of him is a white, gnawed animal skeleton. Blondie’s eyes appear to be hypnotized by this sight. He encroaches towards the skeleton. Close-up: Blondie’s hand appears in the frame and he grasps a club-like bone. The camera zooms on to Tuco, who suddenly turns, grabs his revolver and fires a shot. The bone flies out of Blondie’s hand and Tuco threatens him saying, “Don’t try that again. Now, get going!” Blondie sets off again."

The GBU book is complete! End of next week, I have an appointment to make the last changes, then I will have the first complete digital draft.

Best,
Peter


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Clinton on September 03, 2014, 05:55:44 AM
In relation to my last post, here is more from the original Italian script so that you can see where the "skeleton shot" fits in:

Desert. The sun is glowing in the sky. Two forms unprotected from the sun are seen wandering in a scorching valley. Tuco is on horseback, and Blondie is walking ahead. [The musical cue for this scene, as described by Charles Leinberger41, “begins with a long and suspenseful introduction featuring a tonally ambiguous and disjunct piano melody accompanied by sustained string tremolos . . . [followed by] a beautiful English horn melody.”] The first part of the desert scene is similar to the film, except the script explicitly states that Tuco fires five shots in rapid succession into Blondie’s water canteen, and then he fires a sixth shot (characteristic 5:1 pattern) which sends Blondie’s hat flying. A little later the revengeful Tuco informs Blondie that the end of the desert is 140 miles away (in the film, Tuco says, “100 miles, that’s a nice walk . . .”). After his short speech, Tuco takes out a parasol from under the saddle, opens it and points it in the direction of the sun. A cut is described in the script: Tuco’s head is dangling and his eyes are heavy from tiredness. He rides past the camera . . . Blondie is now seen in the distance. His steps are heavy and sluggish. The heat has worn Blondie down. Nevertheless, he seems to have noticed that Tuco has fallen into a light sleep under his sunshade . . . Blondie looks around as if he is searching for something. About 10 meters in front of him is a white, gnawed animal skeleton. Blondie’s eyes appear to be hypnotized by this sight. He encroaches towards the skeleton. Close-up: Blondie’s hand appears in the frame and he grasps a club-like bone. The camera zooms on to Tuco, who suddenly turns, grabs his revolver and fires a shot. The bone flies out of Blondie’s hand and Tuco threatens him saying, “Don’t try that again. Now, get going!” Blondie sets off again. Tuco waits until he has gone past, and then he drinks out of his canteen. He also moistens his head and neck.
Blondie struggles as he walks on and on through the desert, and at some point he falls to his knees. Tuco rides around him as he tries to get back onto his feet. Blondie’s lips are one continuous wound, and his eyes are swollen and closed. Through the slits of his eyelids Blondie sees the slope of a dune which appears like an insurmountable wall. He struggles to his feet and tiresomely continues. Tuco rides past him and says tauntingly, “It’s just another 115 miles to the end of the desert, and eight hours until sundown. That’s nothing (he laughs).” Cut or cross dissolve (simultaneously fading out one image as another fades in): Tuco with his parasol opened is seen on horseback observing . . . From below, Blondie is seen approaching on all fours. As Blondie gets to within a few meters of Tuco, he is at the end of his strength and falls face down. Tuco gets down from his horse and cautiously approaches Blondie. Close-up: Blondie is motionless but the clanging of Tuco’s spurs indicates that he is coming closer. Blondie opens his eyes . . . Within a few centimeters of Blondie’s face, Tuco’s boot comes into the frame. In a state of desperation, Blondie plunges towards the boot and grabs it with both hands . . . but the boot is empty. Tuco, a little further away, laughs and slaps his hands on his belly . . . He lies on his back, shakes with laughter and kicks his feet in the air. Blondie is at his limit and lets his face fall again into the sand.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: cigar joe on September 03, 2014, 07:16:11 AM
thanks  O0 O0 O0


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: noodles_leone on September 03, 2014, 07:36:31 AM
Wow, this is an amazing shot!! This shot is described in the original Italian script! Below is the relevant part of the script:

"The heat has worn Blondie down. Nevertheless, he seems to have noticed that Tuco has fallen into a light sleep under his sunshade . . . Blondie looks around as if he is searching for something. About 10 meters in front of him is a white, gnawed animal skeleton. Blondie’s eyes appear to be hypnotized by this sight. He encroaches towards the skeleton. Close-up: Blondie’s hand appears in the frame and he grasps a club-like bone. The camera zooms on to Tuco, who suddenly turns, grabs his revolver and fires a shot. The bone flies out of Blondie’s hand and Tuco threatens him saying, “Don’t try that again. Now, get going!” Blondie sets off again."

The GBU book is complete! End of next week, I have an appointment to make the last changes, then I will have the first complete digital draft.

Best,
Peter

Great news! Will you also be selling digital copies?


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: dave jenkins on September 03, 2014, 10:58:48 AM

The GBU book is complete! End of next week, I have an appointment to make the last changes, then I will have the first complete digital draft.

Best,
Peter
I'm very excited to hear this. Let us know when we can download/purchase the book. I'd very much like to have a copy. O0


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Clinton on September 03, 2014, 11:11:39 AM
The book will be printed - offset printing and with a glossy hardcover.

I will post sample pages (including cover, table of contents . . .)  as soon as possible.

Best,
Peter



Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on September 03, 2014, 11:28:46 AM
Great news! Will you also be selling digital copies?

Great news indeed!  O0

Peter, thanks so much for responding with an excerpt from the original script. I was not aware of the skeleton shot. Any insight into this Italian print we're acquiring? Given that it includes the skeleton shot, could it be a theatrical release print or something else?


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Jordan Krug on September 03, 2014, 12:30:12 PM
The book will be printed - offset printing and with a glossy hardcover.

I will post sample pages (including cover, table of contents . . .)  as soon as possible.

Best,
Peter



I'm so excited to hear this book is still happening! Thanks for the update and the info on the skeleton shot!


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Le Bon on September 03, 2014, 03:16:20 PM
That's great news about the book. Do you have a date roughly when it will be published?
Thanks for the script excerpts. Curiouser and curiouser!


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Clinton on September 04, 2014, 12:59:09 AM
Great news indeed!  O0

Peter, thanks so much for responding with an excerpt from the original script. I was not aware of the skeleton shot. Any insight into this Italian print we're acquiring? Given that it includes the skeleton shot, could it be a theatrical release print or something else?

The material is some sort of projection print. Is it possible to get more information from the seller? Is the overall quality good? As far as I am aware, the projection prints were 4-perforations and needed to be projected via an anamorphic lens in theaters to restore the 2-perforation (widescreen) format. Maybe the skeleton shot frames are "waste frames", as described in the article (from the internet) shown below.

Below is a quote from "TECHNISCOPE -What It Is And How It Works" by F R E D E R I C K   F O S T E R:
Film editor Frank Keller, who edited the Sinatra-United Artists' release, "For Those Who Think Young," writing in a recent edition of The Cinemeditor, official organ of the American Cinema Editors, Inc., said: "From the film editor's viewpoint there are a few complications which must be kept in mind as the eventual cut picture negative is set up in a particular manner. Because of extremely narrow frame lines, which would cause negative splices to be visible in the projected picture, each scene of negative is cut alternately on A-and-B rolls and the splices made on overlapping frames. This means that the editor must allow for a few "waste frames" at the beginning and end of every cut in the picture. An allowance of four waste frames is requested by Technicolor, although in a tight editing problem two or three extra frames will suffice."


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Jordan Krug on September 04, 2014, 07:14:21 AM
The material is some sort of projection print. Is it possible to get more information from the seller? Is the overall quality good? As far as I am aware, the projection prints were 4-perforations and needed to be projected via an anamorphic lens in theaters to restore the 2-perforation (widescreen) format. Maybe the skeleton shot frames are "waste frames", as described in the article (from the internet) shown below.

Below is a quote from "TECHNISCOPE -What It Is And How It Works" by F R E D E R I C K   F O S T E R:
Film editor Frank Keller, who edited the Sinatra-United Artists' release, "For Those Who Think Young," writing in a recent edition of The Cinemeditor, official organ of the American Cinema Editors, Inc., said: "From the film editor's viewpoint there are a few complications which must be kept in mind as the eventual cut picture negative is set up in a particular manner. Because of extremely narrow frame lines, which would cause negative splices to be visible in the projected picture, each scene of negative is cut alternately on A-and-B rolls and the splices made on overlapping frames. This means that the editor must allow for a few "waste frames" at the beginning and end of every cut in the picture. An allowance of four waste frames is requested by Technicolor, although in a tight editing problem two or three extra frames will suffice."

I think they mean extra frames on the head and tail of each shot, I don't think they mean pulling trims from the floor and attaching those frames?


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on September 04, 2014, 01:35:18 PM
The material is some sort of projection print. Is it possible to get more information from the seller? Is the overall quality good? As far as I am aware, the projection prints were 4-perforations and needed to be projected via an anamorphic lens in theaters to restore the 2-perforation (widescreen) format.

Correct, this is a 4-perf print that needs to be projected through an anamorphic lens to restore the widescreen format. The overall quality is good. There are scratches etc here and there but most importantly the colours are unfaded.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: mike siegel on September 04, 2014, 04:48:38 PM
I finally found some time to scan some frames from my 35mm elements (the 'cannon' shots are from my trailer). Just as another reference regarding this endless color-debatte probably of some interest for some of you. My prints are slightly more reddish, I reduced the red during scanning. Otherwise the colors are just the way I saw them on the big screen (just 3 years ago I screened a German 35mm at our local cinema.)

(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/gbu10xxx-kl.jpg) (http://s953.photobucket.com/user/peckinpah69/media/gbu10xxx-kl.jpg.html)
(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/gbu6xx-kl.jpg) (http://s953.photobucket.com/user/peckinpah69/media/gbu6xx-kl.jpg.html)
(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/gbu13xx-kl.jpg) (http://s953.photobucket.com/user/peckinpah69/media/gbu13xx-kl.jpg.html)
(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/gbu3x-kl.jpg) (http://s953.photobucket.com/user/peckinpah69/media/gbu3x-kl.jpg.html)
(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/gbu7axx-kl.jpg) (http://s953.photobucket.com/user/peckinpah69/media/gbu7axx-kl.jpg.html)
(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/gbu7dxx-kl.jpg) (http://s953.photobucket.com/user/peckinpah69/media/gbu7dxx-kl.jpg.html)





Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: drinkanddestroy on September 04, 2014, 05:41:49 PM
mike, to my unsophisticated eyes, your pictures look very faded, or extremey bright or overexposed, not sure exactly what the right term is ... or is my opinion of the movie corrupted by years of seeing inaccurately colored MGM versions?


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: mike siegel on September 04, 2014, 05:57:23 PM
Corrupted, yes :).
And I don't exclude myself. Years of DVD & now Blu-ray (I just came aboard last year) not
only changed the look of vintage films, but also our point of view.
Sometimes I look at my 35mm prints and it is like a time machine back in the 70s/early 80s.
Cinema had a certain look before celluloid was transferred to tape & micro chips (or whatever).
I have a great BULLITT print from 68 and it doesn't look like the Warner restaurations (although I like those a lot,
when they are not too dark. Certain details you see in my print are GONE on Blu-ray.)

These quotes by certain industry people ''the film now looks even much better than it did at the premiere...''
is a bit tricky. On the one hand one is fascinated when 50 year old movies look that great & new
and everything. The magic of computer post-production. On the other hand many old films lose parts of their identity.
Hence I was so shocked when I saw the new 'yellow' GBU and the messed-up GIU LA TESTA restauration.
Anyway, younger generations may prefer this new dead digital look, I'd prefer GBU
the way I always saw until after the millenium. Which is pretty much the way you see it here.
(Of course an amateur SCAN on a PC SCREEN is not a projection! Regarding brightness, contrast etc..
but the colors and this comparison speak enough I'd say:)
(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/vergleich.jpg) (http://s953.photobucket.com/user/peckinpah69/media/vergleich.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: drinkanddestroy on September 04, 2014, 08:09:48 PM
but these images as they appear here in your post aren't even an accurate representation of how your print looks ... and do we even know if your print now hasn't faded in 45 years?
I don't think memories of how a movie looked decades ago can be relied on when judging if a movie's color as it appears on DVD/BRD is accurate. I don't believe anyone can remember what shade of green the grass looked or what shade the skin tone looked, when they saw the movie in theaters decades ago. Even if you saw it in a theater five times, I don't believe anyone's memory is good enough to still remember precisely what the color looked like decades ago. IMO the only way to really accurately know what they looked like is if there really were fade-proof prints.

BTW, those two frames you posted for comparison, of Eastwood with the cigar in his mouth, are not the same shot ... not that it would make a big difference in the comparison; it's clear that the colors are very different.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on September 04, 2014, 09:11:44 PM
Mike Siegel,

Thanks for posting posting scans of your 35mm elements. Glad to know some enthusiasts have them in their possession and can give us a glimpse of how the FILM actually looked.

There doesn't seem to be any telltale signs of fading of your elements. Are they IB Technicolor? Your trailer looks like it is.

Can you post scans of these cells without any colour adjustment (i.e. no red reduction). High resolution scans are preferred so we can compare them with our IB Tech print once it arrives.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: drinkanddestroy on September 04, 2014, 10:21:48 PM
yeah, that red reduction is another thing: if you had to reduce the red cuz the print looked redder than you think the movie looked upon initial release, then what about the other colors? Are we to believe that the red levels changed but that the rest of the colors didn't change, so that once you merely adjust the red levels, the colors are accurate?  :o


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: mike siegel on September 05, 2014, 02:52:00 AM
Strange how few lines can take away all your motivation here.
Why is there so often a feeling of being 'under attack' as soon as I read certain comments here?

Anyway, I wrote that I saw a fabulous 1967 35mm print 3 years (not just decades) ago.
I may be getting older, just as 100% of the other human beings I met so far in my life, but
my memory is still fine. Be it 3 years or decades ago. When you saw about 5000 films on 35mm
you get a certain eye. Damnit, why am I still talking? I wanted to sign off :). Enough time wasted.

As for LIL: once you have the print scanned, I'd love to stay in contact..


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: drinkanddestroy on September 05, 2014, 03:07:02 AM
Strange how few lines can take away all your motivation here.
Why is there so often a feeling of being 'under attack' as soon as I read certain comments here?

Anyway, I wrote that I saw a fabulous 1967 35mm print 3 years (not just decades) ago.
I may be getting older, just as 100% of the other human beings I met so far in my life, but
my memory is still fine. Be it 3 years or decades ago. When you saw about 5000 films on 35mm
you get a certain eye. Damnit, why am I still talking? I wanted to sign off :). Enough time wasted.

As for LIL: once you have the print scanned, I'd love to stay in contact..

I don't know why you take this as a personal attack. My only interest (and I am sure the only interest of everyone else here, as well) is to ascertain how the movie should actually look, what the proper colors are. Being skeptical that someone can remember accurate colors from seeing a movie in theaters years ago, and being skeptical about the assumption that a print has wrong reds but every other color is accurate, is – perhaps wrong and perhaps right, but certainly intended – not as a personal attack, but as another point in a conversation about ascertaining proper colors.

Then again, you also took it personally when I criticized The Wild Bunch, so I am not surprised.

And opinions coming from me – a person who has never been involved in or knows a damn thing about film restoration –  take away all your motivation? Thank you, I am really flattered.

Damnit, why am I still talking? Enough time wasted.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: moviesceleton on September 05, 2014, 08:00:54 AM
Drinks: As film prints get older, they get a red tint.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on September 05, 2014, 11:15:11 AM
Drinks: As film prints get older, they get a red tint.

Except most, if not all, IB Technicolor prints. Eastman prints of that era were prone to fading.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on September 05, 2014, 11:51:55 AM
I don't know why you take this as a personal attack. My only interest (and I am sure the only interest of everyone else here, as well) is to ascertain how the movie should actually look, what the proper colors are. Being skeptical that someone can remember accurate colors from seeing a movie in theaters years ago, and being skeptical about the assumption that a print has wrong reds but every other color is accurate, is – perhaps wrong and perhaps right, but certainly intended – not as a personal attack, but as another point in a conversation about ascertaining proper colors.

Then again, you also took it personally when I criticized The Wild Bunch, so I am not surprised.

And opinions coming from me – a person who has never been involved in or knows a damn thing about film restoration –  take away all your motivation? Thank you, I am really flattered.

Damnit, why am I still talking? Enough time wasted.

Perhaps a simple "thank you" for having Mike Siegel post scans of his elements would suffice? These elements are extremely rare and we should be appreciative of other enthusiasts sharing them with us.

Nothing wrong with speaking your mind but you do have a tendency of being abrasive in your posts. A little more balance would go a long way, IMHO.

As for LIL: once you have the print scanned, I'd love to stay in contact..

Email sent, Mike.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: drinkanddestroy on September 05, 2014, 12:48:14 PM
Perhaps a simple "thank you" for having Mike Siegel post scans of his elements would suffice? These elements are extremely rare and we should be appreciative of other enthusiasts sharing them with us.

Nothing wrong with speaking your mind but you do have a tendency of being abrasive in your posts. A little more balance would go a long way, IMHO.


I am flabbergasted that my opinion on the colors or human memory of the colors would be considered rude or abrasive. I do understand that thoughts/emotions are often misinterpreted through the words written across cyberspace. If you think there was anything rude about my opinions RE: the colors, I'm here to state for the record that that was the furthest thing from my mind. I'm just trying to contribute my opinion to the discussion of the colors, that's all  ;)


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: noodles_leone on September 07, 2014, 11:44:15 AM
Quote
I have all three Sergio Leone Clint Eastwood movies in I.B. Technicolor. Magnificent-looking. I just saw the DCP restoration of A Fistful of Dollars at Cannes. I introduced it. I felt like I was watching a DVD. I said, "Why didn’t you ask me to bring my fucking print?" They said, ‘Well, there was three extra minutes in this." I said, "I’ve seen that movie a million times and I didn’t notice those extra minutes. I just noticed that it looked like a fucking DVD."

This is from a Quentin Tarantino interview about his cinema (New Beverly, in LA). He'll show his own 35mm prints there from now. Full article:
http://www.laweekly.com/publicspectacle/2014/09/05/quentin-tarantino-on-his-new-role-running-the-shows-at-new-beverly-cinema


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on September 07, 2014, 02:46:35 PM
I love how that's his response to the interviewer's question, "What are the prints your prize most?"  O0


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: dave jenkins on September 07, 2014, 03:04:41 PM
QT just became my favorite living filmmaker. Again.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: drinkanddestroy on September 07, 2014, 06:26:06 PM
I love how that's his response to the interviewer's question, "What are the prints your prize most?"  O0

here is that exchange:

Question: What are the prints you prize most?

Tarantino: I have all three Sergio Leone Clint Eastwood movies in I.B. Technicolor. Magnificent-looking. I just saw the DCP restoration of A Fistful of Dollars at Cannes. I introduced it. I felt like I was watching a DVD. I said, "Why didn’t you ask me to bring my fucking print?" They said, ‘Well, there was three extra minutes in this." I said, "I’ve seen that movie a million times and I didn’t notice those extra minutes. I just noticed that it looked like a fucking DVD."

This interview is about DCP vs. 35mm, so QT is focusing on that issue, but notice that he didn't say anything about the colors, whether he liked the new piss color.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: stanton on September 08, 2014, 02:09:45 AM
Well, he wasn't talking about GBU, but about FoD.

But it seems he too has an IB print of GBU. Maybe of the international version.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: noodles_leone on September 13, 2014, 02:01:57 AM
here is that exchange:

Question: What are the prints you prize most?

Tarantino: I have all three Sergio Leone Clint Eastwood movies in I.B. Technicolor. Magnificent-looking. I just saw the DCP restoration of A Fistful of Dollars at Cannes. I introduced it. I felt like I was watching a DVD. I said, "Why didn’t you ask me to bring my fucking print?" They said, ‘Well, there was three extra minutes in this." I said, "I’ve seen that movie a million times and I didn’t notice those extra minutes. I just noticed that it looked like a fucking DVD."

This interview is about DCP vs. 35mm, so QT is focusing on that issue, but notice that he didn't say anything about the colors, whether he liked the new piss color.

You're such a better quoter than I am.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: drinkanddestroy on September 14, 2014, 10:42:55 AM
You're such a better quoter than I am.

I'm a better lotta things, but it's the quoting I am most proud of. (And it's not because I know that every day in which I quote while you merely paste links, you go home and take it up the ass while I go home and give it somewhere else. No, it has nothing to do with anything other than me being a caring citizen.)

Also, using our official quote color allows me to help everyone visualize what the new BRD's of the Dollars films are gonna look like.

So, no matter how hard I try to imagine, I really have no idea what y'all would do without me.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: stanton on September 14, 2014, 11:26:32 AM


So, no matter how hard I try to imagine, I really have no idea what y'all would do without me.

Try harder, it's not that difficult ...


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: noodles_leone on September 14, 2014, 11:40:39 AM
 ;D

However, Stanton is the better joker. He only needs 6 words to make a joke when you use 10 lines.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Le Bon on September 14, 2014, 11:54:35 AM
PEA Films are suing MGM for breach of contract and to terminate their contract. It should include gross neglicence as well.  ;D

http://www.thewrap.com/mgm-hit-with-5-million-lawsuit-over-classic-clint-eastwood-marlon-brando-films/


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: drinkanddestroy on September 14, 2014, 12:34:48 PM
;D

However, Stanton is the better joker. He only needs 6 words to make a joke when you use 10 lines.

considering that stanton is the one who argued with me when we we were talking about movie techniques and I said that subtlety is a virtue, I am actually acquiescing to his preferred style while he is taking a self-contradictory position. besides, how many times did I tell you I am not a fan of comedy?  :P


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: stanton on September 14, 2014, 12:42:13 PM
and I said that subtlety is a virtue,

Why only talking about subtlety, why not try it? It can be oh so rewarding.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: drinkanddestroy on September 14, 2014, 12:49:32 PM
talking about it and not practicing it worse than talking against it and then practicing it?  ^-^

remember, stanton grew up in the censorship era, I was born in the 80's – we were never forced into subtlety  :P HOW LIBERATING!


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: dave jenkins on September 14, 2014, 01:50:29 PM
PEA Films are suing MGM for breach of contract and to terminate their contract. It should include gross neglicence as well.  ;D

http://www.thewrap.com/mgm-hit-with-5-million-lawsuit-over-classic-clint-eastwood-marlon-brando-films/
This is just the way PEA do business:
Quote
The company had previously sued MGM in 1990, per the current lawsuit, for failure to pay full amounts due after P.E.A. audited MGM's records. That case was resolved via a settlement in 1993. Another similar case was brought forth in 1996, and again settled between the two parties in 1999.
It's just a way to get more money, plain and simple.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: stanton on September 15, 2014, 02:29:35 AM


remember, stanton grew up in the censorship era,

What censorship era?


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: noodles_leone on September 15, 2014, 03:10:38 AM
remember, stanton grew up in the censorship era, I was born in the 80's – we were never forced into subtlety  :P HOW LIBERATING!

That's what I thought: you never grew up.  :D

__________________________________________

Sorry Lil Brutto. Back to topic.
Did you get the money? Do you still need some? How much?


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: drinkanddestroy on September 15, 2014, 11:02:59 AM
What censorship era?

movies. isn't that what we are talking about (at least metaphor-wise)?


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: stanton on September 15, 2014, 12:14:06 PM
Sure movies, but when was this censorship era you might have spotted?


Title: What's the status of the Technicolor IB print?
Post by: Clinton on September 21, 2014, 02:37:30 AM
For the life of me I can't find it anywhere. I know it's the desert scene. Please help.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/trailerparkboy/BBC-desert-frame_zps54544540.jpg)

What's the status of the Technicolor IB print? Have you raised sufficient funds for the acquisition etc? It would be very, very exciting if the print contains more unseen material.


Title: Donation
Post by: Clinton on September 21, 2014, 03:23:04 AM
For the life of me I can't find it anywhere. I know it's the desert scene. Please help.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/trailerparkboy/BBC-desert-frame_zps54544540.jpg)

I found the original "originaltrilogy.com" thread again, and I sent a PayPal donation today - sorry for the delay.


Title: Re: Donation
Post by: Lil Brutto on September 21, 2014, 06:33:32 PM
I found the original "originaltrilogy.com" thread again, and I sent a PayPal donation today - sorry for the delay.

Hi Peter,

Thanks so much for your generous donation!  Very much appreciated...and needed. O0

I expect the print will be shipped sometime this week. The seller said he'd be boxing them up next.

I'm trying to refrain from getting too excited but I too am hoping we find some unseen material.


Title: Re: Donation
Post by: Clinton on September 22, 2014, 02:59:44 AM
Hi Peter,

Thanks so much for your generous donation!  Very much appreciated...and needed. O0

I expect the print will be shipped sometime this week. The seller said he'd be boxing them up next.

I'm trying to refrain from getting too excited but I too am hoping we find some unseen material.

Pleasure  :) Good luck!


Title: Re: Donation
Post by: Clinton on September 24, 2014, 04:45:20 AM
Hi Peter,

Thanks so much for your generous donation!  Very much appreciated...and needed. O0

I expect the print will be shipped sometime this week. The seller said he'd be boxing them up next.

I'm trying to refrain from getting too excited but I too am hoping we find some unseen material.

I checked with Cineteca di Bologna - Andrea M. (involved in the restoration of IL BUONO, IL BRUTTO, IL CATTIVO) wrote:

Quote:
"Dear Peter
no, unfortunately we did not find outtakes and new materials of the film [GBU]
Best regards"

That makes the Technicolor IB print even more interesting. In my opinion, the unearthing of the "Blondie and the skeleton" frames is the most exciting development in the GBU scene for a long, long time! It would be amazing if shots from the Socorro sequence would surface.


Title: Re: Donation
Post by: dave jenkins on September 24, 2014, 07:20:55 AM
It would be amazing if shots from the Socorro sequence would surface.
Indeed.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Le Bon on November 14, 2014, 05:13:36 AM
Any more news. I saw your post on origiinaltrilogy.com about the extra shots from the farm scene in reel 1. Just wondered if any more have been found.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on November 14, 2014, 08:11:02 AM
No further updates at this time.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Le Bon on December 30, 2014, 11:54:14 AM
Any news yet?


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on December 30, 2014, 03:24:10 PM
The print is going to quite a bit of time to repair and clean.

Crude and partial scans have revealed that the print includes the full Tuco torture scene and "sorry, tuco".   :D


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: stanton on December 31, 2014, 02:25:26 AM
Do you know how many meters the copy has?


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Le Bon on December 31, 2014, 04:25:59 AM
Have all the reels been examined? Any more new scenes found like the skeleton one such as Socorro scene or the Blondie and Angel Eyes having a meal.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on December 31, 2014, 10:56:10 AM
There are 9 reels but I don't know the total length of film.

As mentioned before the colours of the print are great but the print is extremely dirty and very fragile with multiple sections requiring repair before scanning. As a result, progress has been slow. It takes a huge amount of time to clean and repair ~3 hours of film. Only after the print is repaired, cleaned and lubricated can it be scanned. At this point less than half of the film has been crudely scanned and I've reviewed these scans for any unique or interesting footage.

The Socorro Sequence is not there. If there, the "bread-knife" scene would be found on a reel that has yet to be scanned. The grotto scene is also not included.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: stanton on January 01, 2015, 04:37:43 AM


The Socorro Sequence is not there. If there, the "bread-knife" scene would be found on a reel that has yet to be scanned. The grotto scene is also not included.

Pheww, that's good news ...


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Le Bon on January 02, 2015, 12:02:04 PM
There are 9 reels but I don't know the total length of film.

As mentioned before the colours of the print are great but the print is extremely dirty and very fragile with multiple sections requiring repair before scanning. As a result, progress has been slow. It takes a huge amount of time to clean and repair ~3 hours of film. Only after the print is repaired, cleaned and lubricated can it be scanned. At this point less than half of the film has been crudely scanned and I've reviewed these scans for any unique or interesting footage.

The Socorro Sequence is not there. If there, the "bread-knife" scene would be found on a reel that has yet to be scanned. The grotto scene is also not included.

I see, so all the reels have not been scanned quickly. So there's still a chance some more new stuff will turn up.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on January 02, 2015, 01:32:09 PM
I see, so all the reels have not been scanned quickly. So there's still a chance some more new stuff will turn up.

Yes, it's possible but I suspect any unique footage will be subtle as opposed to full scenes that are entirely new/lost.


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on January 19, 2015, 02:45:10 PM
I just updated the thread over at originaltrilogy and thought I'd update the folks here as well...  O0

Following up on my previous post (above) I finally have some caps to share. The expert working on the print (i.e. clean/repair/scan) has been doing a FANTASTIC job. It's a slow and tedious process but the results are truly spectacular!

The R1 screencaps I posted before are from a "raw" scan without a LUT applied. Hence, the desaturated look. This time around the scanner sent me a sample video after applying a LUT in order to give a better idea of how the print actually looks. It's R9 footage of "Sorry, Tuco", which - by the way - has been conspicuously absent from all Italian home releases.

Please keep in mind these are downsized, lossy jpegs grabbed from a lossy sample video. Despite this, the characteristic color saturation/depth/range of the "glorious" IB TECH shines through.


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/trailerparkboy/BBC-R9-01_zps84673d7f.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/trailerparkboy/BBC-R9-02_zpsae6d6361.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/trailerparkboy/BBC-R9-03_zps5b9998f3.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/trailerparkboy/BBC-R9-05_zpsdb5e9bf4.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/trailerparkboy/BBC-R9-06_zps4db07b30.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/trailerparkboy/BBC-R9-08_zps15ba0dbe.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/trailerparkboy/BBC-R9-10_zps7c03bb32.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/trailerparkboy/BBC-R9-12_zps95c69993.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/trailerparkboy/BBC-R9-14_zpsb89ba9aa.jpg)


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: noodles_leone on January 19, 2015, 03:49:44 PM
Looks like the colors are both BLUE and YELLOW, in the end!  :D

Thanks for the update  O0


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: cigar joe on January 19, 2015, 03:53:33 PM
Thanks  O0


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Lil Brutto on January 19, 2015, 06:19:21 PM
Looks like the colors are both BLUE and YELLOW, in the end!  :D

Thanks for the update  O0

...but not green.

My pleasure. More to come...


Title: Re: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
Post by: Le Bon on January 21, 2015, 06:40:08 AM
Thank you for updating  :)