Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Other Films => Topic started by: cigar joe on January 31, 2003, 03:17:31 PM



Title: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on January 31, 2003, 03:17:31 PM
What ever happened to this film, is it available on DVD? I never see it listed, at least in the few spots I've looked. What do you guys know about it?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on February 08, 2003, 11:39:15 AM
This was a very good Lee Van Cleef, SW, film, music by Ennio Morrecone, it may have had other titles in different contries, any body out there know? This is one I'd get for my collection. Thomas Milian was the other main actor.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: nighteagle on February 22, 2003, 07:31:26 AM
Big Gundown, director Sergio Sollima, judged best SW ever made besides the Leone artworks.
If you go to the Video Search of Miami - Cult movie website
(www.vsom.com) you can find most SW as VHS copies
of a master tape. Big Gundown is offered as an hybrid
mix of italian and english language (why so?)
I have a full uncut version in widescreen, however recorded from an
italian TV channel broadcast. I don´t know of any other editions.
 :-[


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on February 22, 2003, 11:02:24 AM
Thats too bad it would be nice to see a DVD of it.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: visitor on February 22, 2003, 10:05:54 PM
LA RESA DEI CONTI aka THE BIG GUNDOWN
15 mins cut when released in English by Columbia Pictures.(thus the hybrid/compilation bootlegs)
Never officially released on video in the US in any format
Currently available as dvd-r from Luminous(widescreen in Spanish with English subs-missing some footage)


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Cusser on September 16, 2003, 10:50:53 AM
Caught Big Gundown (again) last week on cable Encore Westerns (it's Spaghetti month, with Adios Sabata, Death Rides a Horse, Silver LAke, Sledge, etc.), at least it was no commercials but wasn't widescreen.  Anyway, Jonathan corbett (van Cleef) is supposed to be the best tracker, bounty hunter, etc. (like Angel Eyes) but Cuchillo repeatedly outsmarts him, so this doesn't make sense.  Anybody also have trouble with this?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on September 16, 2003, 06:57:59 PM
You know I haven't seen this one in an awful long time, so I can't really recall all the details. I just remember that I considered it one of my favorites after Leone's westerns. I'll have to pick up a DVD of it someday.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: intothepaulymonium on March 27, 2004, 09:53:20 AM
Any reviews good or bad?

I tried to get it a looooong time ago, but it was out of stock.   Does "Lee Van Cleef" give an exceptional performance, as I would expect him to?

Also, is the Morricone score "hypnotizing" as well?

Cheers.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: El Bon on March 27, 2004, 12:27:21 PM
I have seen the cut British  and the Full version with the cut scenes in Italian on VHS which were unfortunately 2nd or 3rd generation copies. So i am waiting to see a top quality DVD release (please soon) before i can give a proper verdict. Van Cleef is very good though as is Milian and the score is great


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Tucster on March 27, 2004, 01:00:26 PM
This is a must see...Van Cleef and Milian are outstanding!


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on March 27, 2004, 07:58:37 PM
Out of the non Leone Spaghetti Westerns that I saw on the big screen in the late 1960's (not that I saw many) it was the best LVC performance, and Millian was outstanding.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: The Smoker on March 28, 2004, 03:15:27 AM
And still missing a DVD release.
Maybe all this GB&U treatment this springtime will change things.

P.S. I think UA/Columbia own the rights.
Not sure who they fall under these days with mergers and takeover with film companies.  ???


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: rddesq on June 11, 2004, 04:01:18 PM
Does anyone know where I can get The Big Gundown on DVD?  I have just about completed my collection of the Top 20 Non-Leone spag. westerns but can't seem to find The Big Gundown which is listed as Number 1.  It's driving me crazy.  Actually bought a music CD called the Big Gundown which is a experimental jazz album by John Zorn.  He plays a bunch of Ennio Morricone  movie music.  Unless you are into experimental type music I do not reccommend it.  Very weird in my opinion.  I like straight Morriconne.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: mortimer on June 12, 2004, 07:46:24 AM
It pops up on ebay pretty regularly. Not something you can get thru normal channels I dont think. Someone needs to pull their head out and give us a widescreen r1 dvd


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on July 07, 2004, 04:35:46 PM
In true anti-hero tradition......

If you check the "Spaghetti Westerns in America" web link in the links section of this site and go back to the posts of June 29th you'll find a way to get a DVD of TBG in both NTSC and PAL. Sounds like it was a labor of love from a devout SW fan who couldn't wait for an official release its gotten rave reviews from SW fans and is the longest version of this film available. Longer that the cut version shown on the Western Channel.

Some details:

The movie runs a total of 1 hour 45 min., 29 seconds, as opposed to 1 hour 29 min, 10 seconds with the current Cinemax verson that airs on TV.
It is a widescreen presentation of the film. The source was originally in PAL format. I've created both a PAL and an NTSC version of the final DVD-r. The original video has been compressed approx. %15 to fit onto the DVD-r disc.
The disc has selectable 'original Italian soundtrack' or 'newly created English soundtrack with subtitled parts.' You select the audio on the menu before the movie starts.

The disc has the original trailer for the film.

There's a chapter selection spot as well as an 'About The Reconstruction' section that gives a brief history of the different versions released in North America (based on the different versions used)




Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on July 07, 2004, 10:08:04 PM
PAL I'm not sure myself, think its for other than North America. lol, I'm no expert.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Blueberry on July 08, 2004, 02:47:54 AM
So how do we get a hold of it? Are you the man for that Cigar Joe? Being american and all?  :D


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on July 08, 2004, 05:01:04 PM
Blueberry, not me, lol,  go to:

 http://www.sartana.homestead.com/index.html

Then surf back to June 29th and you will find the threads you are looking for.

I Think it was based on the recent Spanish DVD release, and was put together from bits and pieces of english diologue supplied from various VHS recordindgs of SW fans around the world. It is quite an accomplishment if you think about it.

Its a shame that it is not officially released, but you Blueberry being in Europe, would have a better acccess to the Spanish DVD, no?



 

 


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: mortimer on July 10, 2004, 09:30:53 AM
Here's a direct link to the details. Sounds good !!

http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?disc=160642;article=78321;title=Spaghetti%20Western%20Web%20Board;pagemark=100


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on July 13, 2004, 09:16:57 PM
Ok, I just got done watching my pristine copy of "La Resa Di Conti" (The Big Gundown) what a gorgeous film and what a great Morricone score.

I haven't seen this movie for over 30 years and now to actually own a restoration of it is beyond my wildest dreams. Its the longest version that is available and if I had to mention any downside to it it is the lack of english sountrack for a couple of sequences. It is a little reminder that it is a Spaghetti Western after all (english subtitles provide a bridge between the english audio sections) .

A bigger restoration budget and a voice actor for Van Cleef and some of the other characters would be all it would take to make this complete. But its well worth the money and I suggest you all get yourselves this essential Van Cleef western. The cinnematography of Carlo Carlini is wonderful and you will be reminded of Leone and Tonnio Delli Colli.

The interaction between Cuchillo and Corbet will make you think of Blondie and Tuco.

All in all its a top notch restoration job that was long in comming by Franco Cleef Productions and all I can say is a big heartfelt  thanks.

Get it guys & gals we may never get as complete as restoration as this.



Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Thosefalsenotes on July 14, 2004, 01:09:48 AM
I'm afraid I'm still too dense to figure out how to purchase it. Do I simply email "Franco"?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on July 14, 2004, 04:19:14 AM
yes


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: The Smoker on July 14, 2004, 03:38:23 PM
Franco put mine in the post on monday.
If its anywhere near his Sartana stuff in quality, very slick.
Which its suppose to surpass. . a real labour of love.
Its been filled out in comparison to the channel 4 version i already own.

(http://www.syu-wa.co.jp/fukusyuganmanpht.jpg)

Only been hearing good stuff from Forum bods & mate about this,
Hes is havin a viewing on Saturday night..
Might dodge it until mine arrives thou.  ;D


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on July 14, 2004, 04:41:39 PM
You know I'm still basking in the afterglow of this DVD.  Its really right up there very close to Leone as far as SW's go.

I forgotbafter 30 years how good it was, I remember it was a good movie but now through the lenz of time and all the crap that followed it is really a top shelf effort and it will not diassapoint you.

It has it all, a funny cat and mouse theme with Corbet and Cuchillo that sort of turns the tables on the Tuco/Blondie relationship, in Gundown the Peon has the upper hand.

Just get it for collector purposes even if an official release comes out some where down the road this is a gem. The Morricone score ranks up there with his best, the cinematography is beautiful, I can't stress this enough that you won't be disapointed.

I'm now on a quest for the rest of Sergio Sollimas westerns, lol.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: General Sibley on July 14, 2004, 06:23:52 PM
CJ, are you drinking the koolaid again?  This better not be another Great Silence  :-X


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on July 15, 2004, 04:24:44 AM
No seriously its good, the chase through the canefields and into the desert at the end play like Tucos Ecstacy of Gold run in the cemetary and the two standoff's at the end are good.

Sollima in this film is much more like Leone than Corbuchi. Make it a part of your collection this one is worthy and needs the full SE treatment.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: DJIMBO on July 15, 2004, 12:22:00 PM
Run Man Run is available on R1 and R2 DVD i think its on Blue Underground, Face to Face is more difficult to find. Im really looking forward 2 seeing the big gundown wonder why its so neglected by DVD, VHS and TV showings? ???


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: mortimer on July 15, 2004, 01:38:36 PM
Wow , must be to each his own as I enjoyed The Great Silence as much as The Big Gundown. These are the best 2 non Leones I have come across.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on July 16, 2004, 04:28:57 AM
You know on the IMDb I checked for LVC and for Morricone and it lists The Big Gundown as comming before GBU this is interesting in a lot of respects, since I've read reviews that TBG was like a copy (credits style and music style) to GBU. Yhis would put a different slant on things.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: mortimer on July 16, 2004, 08:29:44 AM
I just noticed that myself. I always thought gbu was first.  This film deserves a much higher rating on imdb, it would definitely rise with a mainstream widescreen r1 dvd release. Milian and LVC were both great in their roles and morricone was never better. Some of Sollimas images from the film (I wont spoil them for those who havent seen it) are classic and would make for awesome screen captures!


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: DJIMBO on July 16, 2004, 11:33:35 AM
sollima surely owed something to leone because leone began spaghetti westerns, but as big gundown and GBU were shot simultaneously they were probably thinking independently.

Leone actually slated big gundown saying the story (originally set in Sicily i think and written by a certain Franco Solinas) was great but that Sollima's 'stupid film' ruined it.

Have yet 2 see it so i cant make my own judgement i personally think Great Silence has its flaws but is generally worthwile cos its so unique and its far better than most Spaghetti crap.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: General Sibley on July 16, 2004, 12:36:01 PM
What a coincidence - I got home at midnight from the airport and was too wired to go right to sleep and decided to watch a little tv first and Voila!, Big Gundown was on the Western channel.  Saw like the first half hour of it, and it was surprisingly good.  Not quite up to the Master's standards, but a lot better than any of the other spag's I've seen.   Dubbing is pretty bad, and I'm not to crazy about the Cuchillo character - but I like the horny woman ranchowner, loved it where she bangs him and then has him horsewhipped afterwards  ;D

Nice score by Morricone, a lot of that flamenco guitar similar to the Tuco/Brother Ramirez scenes.  Netflix doesn't have this, will have to keep my eye peeled for next time it's on cable.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: mortimer on July 16, 2004, 01:49:55 PM
The western channels version is better than nothing but widescreen does as much for this movie as Leones!


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on July 16, 2004, 02:43:50 PM
Spring with the $20 for the uncut widescreen version, you will not be sorry, it actually has a different look (locations) from Leone some very beautiful bg's in the Cuchillo chase sequence at the end. The DVD is immaculate in this respect.

LVC as Corbett almost reprises his Mortimer character, he is a bit more compassionate and less cold blooded and  for most of the film he dresses in black, hat & frock coat,  wears his black boots texican style, smokes a pipe and has some good lines, not as many as in FFDM or GBU but a few.

 



Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on July 18, 2004, 11:55:19 AM
Quote
Leone actually slated big gundown saying the story (originally set in Sicily i think and written by a certain Franco Solinas) was great but that Sollima's 'stupid film' ruined it.

 

The original story (Franco Solinas' ) reversed the characters ages and the hunter ended up killing his quarry before he found out the truth. Perhaps this is what Leone ment.

Even so, if you want something very close to a Leone film this is the Spaghetti to get.  


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: The Smoker on July 27, 2004, 01:42:34 PM
Came through the post on Friday. Waiting for me after work.

Watched it Saturday night

Well well, what can i say which hasn't already been said?

Bloody fantastic show!
Really can't believe as a finished uncut print, how lush it looks and sounds. Anamorphic Widescreen too boot.
Saw alot more of dialogue sequences which really pull out what a great story teller Solima was. And more the films manifesto so to speak.
Brother Smith And Western? Pure class.  
Previous english prints ive seen are more cut to the chase, action driven.
And makes my old VHS copy look quite redundent.

Its Spaghetti Heaven is what it is. Ive already thanked Franco a thousand times. But again thanks for the blood sweat and tears.  ;)

P.S. Also holds my all time favourite Rotoscope[size=0]TM[/size] opening sequence, with the Morricone title & the Christy sung theme, makes your hair stand on end..



Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: redyred on July 27, 2004, 03:36:27 PM
I'm soon to be recieving Gundown on VHS in its original language - as far as I know the only way it can be bought - from this site (http://www.freeuniverse.it/film). They also do it on DVD, as well as a good selection of other Spaghettis and other Italian films, at fair prices too - mostly under 10 Euros (around £7, $11). Of course, its all Italian language stuff, so its no good if you don't speak the language, although I suppose its possible the DVDs have English subtitles.

When it arrives I'll let everyone know how it looks, how cut it seems to be etc. I'm also getting from the same site the Italian version of DYS, apparently the only totally uncut version (with the final flashback).


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on July 28, 2004, 05:03:33 AM
Enjoy!
Let us know redyred what you think of it.

If you are looking for another "Leone Western", this so far, is the closest to his vision that I've found.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: DJIMBO on October 11, 2004, 01:23:27 PM
guys, im looking to buy Franco Cleef's version of Big Gundown as its had rave reviews on here.

Tried thru links here and on spag western web board to get hold of him but no joy as links dont work.

Anyone know his e-mail address?  :)


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Ramon on October 11, 2004, 03:15:16 PM

Franco did a great job, you should be able to email him on kingriek@shaw.ca



Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: DJIMBO on October 12, 2004, 03:07:37 AM
cheers ramon, ill give it a whirl, so to speak  ;D


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Nobody on October 12, 2004, 03:51:05 AM
For some reason, I have not noticed this thread until now. Had to send that guy an e-mail. I've wanted to see this film for so long...


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: redyred on October 12, 2004, 04:58:23 PM
I will have a subtitled version to mail out to people hopefully in the near future. I've got all the subtitles written, I just need to do the technical side of things, but its in the pipeline.

The film's excellent by the way. Having spent a pretty intense week translating it all, I've got to know it pretty well. Not as well directed as a Leone, but pisses all over must other SWs. The final gundown is the only one I've seen that is the equal of a Leone finale. And of course, Lee Van Cleef and Tomas Millian in one film is pretty sweet (and by sweet I mean totally awesome). Overall I'd say its probably the equal of FAFDM.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on October 13, 2004, 04:33:01 AM
And don't forget the Morricone score, lol.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: redyred on October 13, 2004, 07:35:42 AM
Yep. Perhaps his best non-Leone SW score. Well, the final gunbattle theme is, although I think the main theme plays second fiddle to the one from Companeros.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on October 13, 2004, 04:47:36 PM
Well, you got me there I haven't seen Companeros yet.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: The Smoker on October 14, 2004, 05:33:23 AM
I had known the Big Gundown soundtrack way before seeing the movie. There are copies of the UA Records LP everywhere in secondhand record shops in the UK.
But when you see and hear the chrissi sung morricone open title with the technoscope visuals, it makes the hairs stand on end, work of art.
It rivals the dollars movies intros.

Franco's Big Gundown is proberly best things ive seen on DVD this year. Beats alot of official releases to top 5. I thought bootlegs like this were just pipedreams. its suspended disbelief still after 5 months.  


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: mortimer on October 17, 2004, 11:44:06 PM
My favorite sw score !! And a top notch movie.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on October 18, 2004, 05:00:19 AM
Its a shame it has no official release.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Nobody on October 18, 2004, 10:06:10 AM
Got it from Franco today...I'll get back to you once I've seen it. Nice artwork.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Nobody on October 18, 2004, 12:38:49 PM
I've seen it now. Finally. It was terrific. In the end you got not one, but two showdowns, both up there among the best ever put on film. The final gunbattle theme is actually a reworking of a piece called Für Elise. I played it when I took piano lessons as a kid.

One thing I'm wondering about though: Twenty minutes into the film, Van Cleef is with a blond prostitute, and it sounds like she was dubbed by the same woman who dubbed Claudia Cardinale in Once Upon a Time In The West. I've forgotten her name now, but can anyone tell me if this is correct, or is my mind playing tricks with me again?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on October 18, 2004, 04:32:25 PM
Quote
One thing I'm wondering about though: Twenty minutes into the film, Van Cleef is with a blond prostitute, and it sounds like she was dubbed by the same woman who dubbed Claudia Cardinale in Once Upon a Time In The West. I've forgotten her name now, but can anyone tell me if this is correct, or is my mind playing tricks with me again?


You may be right, don't know her name though.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Nobody on October 19, 2004, 04:01:47 AM


You may be right, don't know her name though.

Her name is Joyce Gordon. I found the old thread were we discussed this: http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=960


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on October 22, 2004, 01:29:45 AM
Given the amount of adulation Gundown has been receiving on this thread, I was more than a little interested when I saw that there was a new Japanese Lee Van Cleef boxed set that included it (the other 2 titles in the box are Death Rides a Horse and The Grand Duel (Gundown and DRAH are in English with J subtitles, TGD is in Italian with J-subtitles (all three are widescreen 16x9))).

The set was about $100, but I decided to take the plunge(I live in Japan and bought it locally). Gundown is only the 90 minute version and it does look very good. I must say that I was disappointed with the film (maybe that extra quarter of an hour really makes a difference). I grant that it has a good score and that some of the location photography is impressive, but Tomas Milian really annoys me, and I think the plot is weak. It is better than a lot of other non-Leone SWs, though.

After Gundown, I watched DRAH, also for the first time, and, oddly, enjoyed it more. The revenge plot works really well, and I enjoyed the relationship between the young avenger and the Lee Van Cleef character. The ending is also quite strong. For my money, it is superior to Gundown.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on October 22, 2004, 05:25:32 AM
The cut version removes a lot of Lee Van Cleef and Walter Barnes at the wedding and also the three bullets gunfight at the very beginning and the next whole sherrif's office sequence, It also trims bits and pieces of scenes. Especially after the part where Cuchillo steals VC's horse after the barber sequence, LVC rides into town with what looks like Cuchillo over a saddle when he finds out its not him a section at the end of his conversation with the sheriff is cut, its probably LVC's most regret-filled and human line as he whistfully stares into the screen.

I too when I first saw this 30 years ago did not like the fact that Cuchillo could put things over on <a href="van%20cleef" onmouseover="window.status='Van Cleef'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">Van Cleef</a>, but after all the crap that has been made since I really am enjoying these other Euro westerns.

DRAH suffers from a lousy transfer on the US DVD, if its as good as you say it would be nice to see that Japanese DVD.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: DJIMBO on October 22, 2004, 09:13:53 AM
yeah, ive ordered big gundown too from Franco, its a 107-min version so should be pretty complete


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on October 22, 2004, 06:34:46 PM

DRAH suffers from a lousy transfer on the US DVD, if its as good as you say it would be nice to see that Japanese DVD.

I thought the transfer was quite good. It isn't up to the quality of Gundown, though.

BTW, DRAH carries an MGM logo at the beginning, and Gundown wears Columbia's brand. Is it perhaps conceivable that we'll someday get standard US studio releases of these films on DVD?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on October 22, 2004, 09:48:59 PM
The Japanese transfer is supposed to be better than the crappy current US R1 DVD that looks like it went straight from video to DVD.

The made in Canada DVD of DRAH is 112 minutes can you tell us the running time of the Japanese DVD Dave?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on October 22, 2004, 11:55:09 PM

The made in Canada DVD of DRAH is 112 minutes can you tell us the running time of the Japanese DVD Dave?

The box says 115.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on October 23, 2004, 05:23:03 AM
So its either got three more minutes or the transfer runs slower.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Cusser on October 23, 2004, 08:58:03 AM
Has to be better than Western Channel's version (digital though, but not widescreen) which was on last night at 95 minutes listed.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: redyred on October 23, 2004, 12:42:55 PM
My Italian DVD is 110


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on October 25, 2004, 10:01:56 PM
As I said earlier, the time on the box for the Japanese disc reads 115. I played the disc again last night to see what  the counter on my player would read out at as, and it was indeed 115 minutes at the end (plus 10 or 20 seconds). This includes the time for both  the MGM and the UA logos that play at the film's beginning.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: DJIMBO on October 27, 2004, 10:10:04 AM
well, ive seen it at long last and im pretty impressed at first viewing. i dont think its quite there with Leone right now but i might change my mind when ive seen it again sometime. Much better than the much-lauded Django and probably as good as The Great Silence, though its not as distinctive, as i thought Sollima was copying Leone a bit.

LVC and Milian were great, Walter Barnes was pretty good too. Loved the bit with the fit widow, great fun!

Overall, 7/10, Franco did a great job.  ;D


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: DJIMBO on October 27, 2004, 06:34:46 PM
just elaborating and following on...not enough for you, huh  ;D

Morricone's music, wonderful and accompanies the action very well, wonder what it would be like without it

Milian, fantastic performance, if TBG was made b4 GBU then i reckon Wallachs was an extension of Milian's performance but i doubt if Eli saw the film. There is similarity parallel between LVC and TM and Clint and Eli's relationship.

I was very impressed with the sets, alot better than the shitty sets Corbucci has, a lot more of a Mexican feel like in The Wild Bunch.

Lot more depth in the story as well, lot more feasible.

On the basis of this id like to see Face to Face and Run Man Run, for Milian's performances and Sollima's direction alone.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on October 27, 2004, 10:36:45 PM
Face to Face is more serious and less Leone, but pretty good with Volonte, and Run Man Run is an extention of TBG basically more humorous adventures of Cuchillo.  They are worth getting a hold of.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: The 4th Gunfighter on November 01, 2004, 12:18:43 PM
Saw this movie recently (got it from FrancoCleef and is really the only version you should ever see) and I love it! Quickly became my favorite spaghetti after the Eastwood trilogy & Once...West, and well deserving of one of the top non-Leone westerns (IMO #1). Even more significant as it came out just prior to GBU.

This movie has a lot of things going for it: excellent Cleef performance (think of Col. Mortimer perhaps 10 years earlier, before he became a bounty hunter), as well as an excellent Tomas Milian performance - one of the few where his (over)acting tendencies match his character perfectly. The scenery is great, especially since the story moves locations from US to Mexico, as well as a story that forces the characters (Cleef & Milian) to adapt/change to events instead of being the same character throughout the movie. It has an Excellent Morricone soundtrack, one of his best ever, just a notch below GBU & West. Plus it has its' share of excellent action moments: in the beginning w/ Cleef lining up the bullets and the famous "Hunt In The Cane Field" and subsequent showdowns.

Definitely a must see for Spaghetti fans, and made me track down Sollima's other two Spaghetti's (Run Man Run & Face To Face - I think it's referred to as the "Chase trlogy). I will say this though: I think the Hunt portion, under a different cinemetographer/director, could have been done even better.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: DJIMBO on November 24, 2004, 06:31:26 PM
Right, ive seen The Big Gundown for a second time now, time for a more thorough analysis:

Good points:

Van Cleef - thoroughly convincing
Milian - plays the part to a T
Morricone - not one of my favourite scores of his but still perfect for the mood
Cinematography - very impressive, more the interiors than the exteriors

Bad points:

Barnes - i just thought his accent was annoying
the ranch bit - it just gets boring after a while even though the widow is quite fit
Tries to parody Leone too much

Overall, i think Great Silence is better - its more distinctive than this, though its an extremely solid and entertaining film. 7/10 i guess my opinion hasnt changed, lol


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Fortean on March 05, 2005, 08:10:57 PM
I just got the Spaghetti Western Double Shot from deepdiscountdvd.com  a few days ago (includes Run, Man, Run and Manaja) - and the Franco Cleef Big Gundown just came in the mail today.

I see a BG/RMR double feature in the near future!

Seriously though, BG has been a favorite of mine since I caught it on a free trial on the Western Channel. I'm glad to see I'm not alone in my feelings for it.





Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Marco Leone on March 06, 2005, 03:46:26 PM
All I can say on this issue is that I got hold of a copy of Franco's version, and it is truly a spectacular thing (both the movie, and the work that he has done in compiling this "full" version.

He has carried out similar reconstruction works on other SW's, and will certainly be thinking about buying some of these.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on March 06, 2005, 09:40:05 PM
Quote
He has carried out similar reconstruction works on other SW's, and will certainly be thinking about buying some of these.


Yea he's got a restoration of one of the Sartana's (they are thought of highly in some circles) with Klaus Kinsky that I'm definitely going to pick up, and some others soon.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Sentenza on March 09, 2005, 12:58:17 PM
Didn't know where exactly to post this, but after looking at the conversation in this thread here might be the best place for it.

German distributor Koch Media will release a 4 dvd Sergio Sollima Western box set at the end of the month.

It'll feature La Resa dei Conti, Faccia a Faccia, and Corri, Uomo, Corri. The movies will be in director's cut versions, supervised by Sergio Sollima and slightly longer than the currently available italian dvds.

Dolby Digital 2.0 German/Italian (w/ German or English subtitles)
2,35:1 - R2 Pal

Extras include:
- "Sergio Sollima - Face to Face" (56 minute exclusive documentary)
- "Von Angesicht zu Angesicht" [De Faccia a Faccia] (8mm-version/35 minutes)
- German, American and Italian movie trailers
- Gallery w/ promotional artwork, comics, set pictures
- location comparison (then/today)
- alternative opening sequences or opening credits [I'm not 100% sure which is meant]
- 32 page booklet
- book: Ulrich Bruckner: "Leichen pflastern ihren Weg", a 250 page spaghetti western encyclopedia w/ about 350 colour & b/w pictures

I think I'll have to start putting those pennies aside... ;)


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on March 09, 2005, 10:03:00 PM
sounds great give us a full report when you can.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: The Smoker on March 10, 2005, 12:49:04 PM
Like to know the running time of the new Faccia a Faccia, how it shapes up to the Japanese SPO one.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Sentenza on March 10, 2005, 03:43:49 PM
Like to know the running time of the new Faccia a Faccia, how it shapes up to the Japanese SPO one.

According to the press release the running times are:

La Resa dei Conti 110 min.
Faccia a Faccia 111 min.
Corri, Uomo, Corri 119 min.

How long is the Japanese version from SPO?

edit
I've found conflicting information regarding the running times. An individual (from a German dvd board) who supposedly worked partly on the releases claims the running times are the following:

La Resa dei Conti 105 min. 59 sec.
Faccia a Faccia 106 min. 50 sec.
Corri, Uomo, Corri 120 min. 40 sec.

Bottom line is: I don't know. :-\


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on March 10, 2005, 08:16:30 PM
The big question is, has Faccia a Faccia been given an anamorphic transfer? The SPO version is letterboxed only....


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Sentenza on March 10, 2005, 10:25:43 PM
Runtime update:

It appears the times from the press release (110, 111 & 119 min.) are the supposed theatrical running times. The slightly shorter times are the actual running times of the dvds and include 4% PAL speedup:

La Resa dei Conti 105 min. 59 sec.
Faccia a Faccia 106 min. 50 sec.
Corri, Uomo, Corri 120 min. 40 sec.

(Note that this would make CUC actually longer than the theatrical release. ???)

Anamorphic vs. letterbox: don't know, yet.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Sentenza on March 11, 2005, 01:15:38 PM
Here we go:

the running times above are all correct! Corri, Uomo, Corri will not be longer than the theatrical release. Koch Media reportedly took a master from Blue Underground and converted it directly without PAL speedup.

Supposedly all three will have anamorphic transfers.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Sentenza on March 17, 2005, 08:54:48 AM
Enjoy, amigos! ;)

(http://www.wildeast.net/box_2_scr.jpg)
(http://www.wildeast.net/box_3_scr.jpg)
(http://www.wildeast.net/dvd_1_scr.jpg)
(http://www.wildeast.net/dvd_4_scr.jpg)


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: The Smoker on March 17, 2005, 01:11:28 PM
er. . . . .  :o


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on March 18, 2005, 05:15:49 PM
Now we need to know subtitling details: do all the movies have English subs, and what about the extras?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on March 22, 2005, 03:00:04 PM
Quote
except for the hideously unpleasant theme song, performed by what sounds like the worst opera-style soprano in all of Italy

Lol, I kinda liked her (Kristy) I think she was signing it phonetically, at least it sounds that way, the title sequence and the song set me right in the mood. ;)

What was the lapse in plot logic, I'm on the edge of my seat as I type?  8)


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: DJIMBO on March 22, 2005, 04:09:31 PM
yeah i didnt think Big Gundown was perfect by any means but its a hugely enjoyable film with some strong performances. it has far better cinematography and settings than ur average, but i still dont think its as good as The Great Silence (which is also quite flawed), and certainly not as distinctive.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Christopher on May 27, 2005, 09:05:50 PM
We've got a few threads on this so I wasn't sure which one to post in. But anyhow, The Big Gundown is on the Encore Westerns channel tomorrow (saturday) at 12:10 U.S. Eastern time. It seems like they show movies in cycles so you might keep a watch out for it. I haven't seen it yet, but I'm planning on watching it though, especially since I've seen Run, Man, Run.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Christopher on June 01, 2005, 12:17:06 PM
I did get to watch this movie on Saturday. I liked it a lot. But it probably would have been nicer if I hadn't seen Run, Man, Run beforehand, since that let me know that Cuchillo was probably innocent of what he was running from in Big Gundown. But nevertheless a very fun movie. Lee Van Cleef was good in it, as usual.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Marco Leone on June 01, 2005, 01:44:27 PM
I'm sure its probably been mentioned via a different thread before, but the Franco Cleef reconstruction of this film is fantastic, restoring all the deleted scenes etc.

By the way, being based in the UK where SW's on TV is a very rare thing, I'm extremely jealous of the amount of them that seem to get shown over there in the USA.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: redyred on June 01, 2005, 01:59:39 PM
Going back to Cusser's original post, Corbett does fall for some fairly weak tricks - especially that one where Cuchillo makes him think he's been bitten by a snake.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Cusser on June 03, 2005, 08:39:11 AM
Hey, derringdo, you llama you: How about Corbett's "ride into the sunst" at the end - he seemed to being quite well with that gunshot location !!!


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on June 03, 2005, 05:51:47 PM
I'll have to check it more closely in a zoom but it could be a single shot shotgun with birdshot , or a smoothbore rifle filled with birdshot, it would be more believable then guys.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Leone Admirer on September 04, 2005, 06:37:30 AM
After being alerted to the existance of this DVD (it can be bought here at http://www.xploitedcinema.com/dvds/dvds.asp?title=5250 )I was tempted by the release and was wondering does anyone here have it? Is the A/V of good quality?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: The Smoker on September 04, 2005, 07:49:28 AM
Get it.
One of the best things i watched on 2004. The only real english copy of Big Gundown worth owning.
Wonderful picture for a grey copy. Its anamorphic widescreen.

Only snapshot image ive got to hand. Taken form the rotoscope opening titles.
(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1388/corbett1ju.jpg)

Removable Subs. Its sourced from a italian print. English soundtrack has been sync over it. (Some small sections are only in italian like Anchorbay's Companeros)
Sections of the Morricone soundtrack have been replaced with a remastered CD to give it more punch.

   


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: indio on September 04, 2005, 08:34:56 AM
a great film. one of my fav. non leone westerns. i got the full 120min version with the extra italian scenes.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on September 05, 2005, 05:00:48 AM
Get its great.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Leone Admirer on September 05, 2005, 09:57:28 AM
Man you guys are costing me a fortune  ;D. No matter if its for a film cause then any amount of money can be spent. Today I just picked up the MGM UK R2's of Sabata and the Return of Sabata. Surprisingly the tranfers were good and so was the audio. Menu's were ridiculously bad though.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: The Firecracker on April 15, 2006, 11:15:09 PM
Franco put mine in the post on monday.
If its anywhere near his Sartana stuff in quality, very slick.
Which its suppose to surpass. . a real labour of love.
Its been filled out in comparison to the channel 4 version i already own.

(http://www.syu-wa.co.jp/fukusyuganmanpht.jpg)

Only been hearing good stuff from Forum bods & mate about this,
Hes is havin a viewing on Saturday night..
Might dodge it until mine arrives thou.  ;D


is it just me...or does Van Cleef look rather hispanic in this poster? In fact it doesnt look like Van cleef at all! Is it a painting?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on April 15, 2006, 11:53:37 PM
Well on the shoulder wound to Corbett, it looks like the gun Sarah shoots is just a single shot shot gun filled with bird shot, which would be reasonable and plausable.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Banjo on April 16, 2006, 09:09:59 AM
Does anyone know if Franco Cleefs BG reconstruction is still the longest available version(1 hour 46 minutes approx) with the English audio as i've seen one or two dvd's (pirates possibly?) on Ebay that claim to be longer?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: indio on April 16, 2006, 02:39:11 PM
as far as i was aware Franco's was the full version. i have it and your right about the time.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: The Firecracker on April 23, 2006, 10:59:56 PM
Today I just picked up the MGM UK R2's of Sabata and the Return of Sabata.


well we all know how you digested those two Leone admirer LOl ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Arizona Colt on April 23, 2006, 11:51:26 PM
If you're in the US you can purchase the box set with all three films for $25 dollars at Best Buy or Walmart.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: The Firecracker on April 24, 2006, 12:02:49 AM
If you're in the US you can purchase the box set with all three films for $25 dollars at Best Buy or Walmart.

got em. worse mistake I made of all my sw purchases.
The first is a fine film but the last two... :-\

I should have waited for it to go down in price.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Arizona Colt on April 24, 2006, 12:24:27 AM
I enjoyed all three of them. The first is inarguably the best but all three delivered on the blueprint the first film laid out-nice stunts, action, witty one liners and good performances(as usual) from Cleef and Brynner.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: The Firecracker on April 24, 2006, 12:27:16 AM
the better one of the last two was "Return". Van Cleef's hammy performance  lifts that piece of crap from the ground.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Leone Admirer on April 24, 2006, 05:27:17 AM

well we all know how you digested those two Leone admirer LOl ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Looking back at my naive enthusiasm, almost heartbreaking isn't it  ;D


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: JamesK on July 21, 2006, 08:01:24 AM
Is the print shown on the Encore Westerns (fairly regularly) the cut-down version?  If so, what was lost?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Banjo on July 21, 2006, 08:40:43 AM
You need the Franco Cleef reconstruction for the fullest English version.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Sundance on July 21, 2006, 10:58:28 AM
Is the print shown on the Encore Westerns (fairly regularly) the cut-down version?  If so, what was lost?

The longest english language version is about 15minutes shorter than the italian one, I think. I remember there would have been lots of small cuts "everywhere" (based on how the language changes between italian and english on the Franco Cleef disc) but I can't remember any exact details.

It was also claimed at SWWB that the Koch Media disc of the film would be couple of seconds longer than the Franco Cleef disc (which uses the italian disc as source), but no details were provided and I have been too lazy to check it for myself.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: boardwalk_angel on July 21, 2006, 02:33:54 PM
Is the print shown on the Encore Westerns (fairly regularly) the cut-down version?  If so, what was lost?

They show the complete film....the cutdown version omits the opening scene featuring Van Cleef & the 3 outlaws...but it might as well be a TV movie...it's approximately "Big Gundown".......kinda sorta the general idea of "Big Gundown"...because it's not shown in the appropriate aspect ratio...rather it's presented in full screen.
They do have the opening scene..but you see only 2 guys approach Corbett in Colorado..
...and later on ..there's a priceless shot of a guy who's apparently talking to a horse...then it pans over a bit and you see somebody's nose sitting on the horse......it's unwatchable.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on July 21, 2006, 04:55:38 PM
yes you'll have to track down the FrancoCleef restoration to get the full film.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: The Peacemaker on December 28, 2006, 03:17:23 PM
Like Arizona Colt said, this movie should've been called The Big Letdown.

I watched this the other night and I was very disappointed. There's alot of talk saying this is such a great SW, one of the best. I didn't think it was bad, I just thought it was okay. I enjoyed it though.

I was just expecting a hell of alot more since so many people said it was great.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: The Peacemaker on December 28, 2006, 03:41:18 PM
These are the things I liked about the movie:

1) Interesting variety of characters
2) Excellent Morricone score
3) Good action sequences

Here are some negatives:

1) There were parts that seemed to drag
2) Lack of a threatening villain ( the senator was a jerk but in a western if the villain isn't a gunfighter I lose interest. The German would've made an excellent bad guy if they had given him more screen time )
3) The reputation of the film will make first time viewers expect much more.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on December 28, 2006, 04:36:04 PM
I couldn't disagree more, nor care less what AC or FC says  8), this is a great SW, I love the episodic nature of the chase, the excellent Morricone score, LVC is perfect as Corbet and Tomas Milian superb as the wiley peon Cuchillo. Sollima making a peon the hero was a stroke of genius.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Silenzio on December 28, 2006, 04:42:19 PM
I couldn't disagree more, nor care less what AC or FC says  8), this is a great SW, I love the episodic nature of the chase, the excellent Morricone score, LVC is perfect as Corbet and Tomas Milian superb as the wiley peon Cuchillo. Sollima making a peon the hero was a stroke of genius.

Going to go with CJ on this one.

Except, i think that the "episodic" nature of the film was less coherent and not as well executed as it was in Sollima's later "Face to Face" which runs more fluently and is, in my opinion, a superior film (except the Morricone score isn't quite as awesome. It was still darn good, except it's basically just one song)

But still, I would rate them both in a top ten list of Spaghettis.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: The Peacemaker on December 28, 2006, 04:47:54 PM
I liked the episodic nature of the film too, and like I said before it had a very interesting variety of characters. But other than that, it's just average.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on December 28, 2006, 04:49:32 PM
You have to remember that the actual title of this film is "The Settling of Accounts", which really in no way promises a "big gundown". That was sort of false advertizing by the publicity department.

But does settle the two accounts between Corbet & Senator Brockston and his bodyguard Von Schulenberg, and Cuchillo and his accuser Chet Miller. 

This story was actually originally a Sicilian tale adopted to a western by Sollima with some changes, and Leone always thought that it was ruined by the changes.

Originally the Corbet character kills the innocent Cuchillo character before finding out that the Brockston  character was protecting his interests by shielding his son in law by accusing Cuchillo. It would have been a much darker SW. I think another change was the ages with the Cuchillo Character being the older one & vice versa for Corbet.


Cisco/Kermit posted this a while ago but here is how they break down the non Leone SW's on the Spaghetti Westerns in America Board, me personally I would take out #'s 7, 8, and Price of Power,  I haven't seen 9, 14, 15, 18, or The Hellbenders :

http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=4690.0

1. The Big Gundown 183


2. The Great Silence 162


3. Django 139


4. Death Rides a Horse 127


5. Face to face 99


6. A Bullet for the General 88


7. Sabata 82


8. Navajo joe 71


9. Django Kill.. 70


10. Companeros 67


11. Day of Anger 63


12  Keoma/The Mercenary 62


14. Return of Ringo 61


15. If You Meet Sartana....Pray for Your Death 55


16. Run, Man, Run 44


17. Cemetary Without Crosses 41


18. Any Gun Can Play 40


19= The Price of Power/The Hellbenders 37


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Arizona Colt on December 29, 2006, 05:11:57 AM
I couldn't disagree more, nor care less what AC or FC says  8), this is a great SW, I love the episodic nature of the chase, the excellent Morricone score, LVC is perfect as Corbet and Tomas Milian superb as the wiley peon Cuchillo. Sollima making a peon the hero was a stroke of genius.

And I could care less that you could care less 8) 8) 8) by any other name the film still has a lacking conclusion. I still liked quite a bit. It's quite possibly Van Cleefs best character portrayal. The ending is the only problem I have with the film but FACE TO FACE definitely is the best of the three Solima's.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Silenzio on December 29, 2006, 03:19:34 PM
The ending is the only problem I have with the film but FACE TO FACE definitely is the best of the three Solima's.

I quite like the ending actually, I don't think it disappoints (unlike the ending of The Mercenary which I can't stand. I just turn it off after the three-way shootout). I particularly enjoy the scene where Cuchillo is running through the cane fields. Goes perfectly with the music. Sollima seemed to direct scenes of one man being chased by a posse of people quite well. There's a similar situation with Beauregard Bennet in his later Face to Face (which, as anybody who has read the thread up until this points knows, is my favorite Sollima as well) which has similar cinematography and coreography I've noticed. The duels at the end of the film do not disappoint, if you ask me. I like them very much (mainly Morricone's music). **SLIGHT SPOILER** Having Cuchillo and Corbett ride off into the distance at the end of the film was typical, but effective. One of my favorite SW's. Just my two cents.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: The Peacemaker on December 29, 2006, 04:34:05 PM
I don't think it disappoints (unlike the ending of The Mercenary which I can't stand. I just turn it off after the three-way shootout).

I completely agree with you there.

The Mercenary would've been ten times better if that was the climax of the movie.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Silenzio on December 29, 2006, 08:50:04 PM
I completely agree with you there.

The Mercenary would've been ten times better if that was the climax of the movie.

I know. I just stop it there and think to myself, "Heh! What a great spaghetti!" 'cause i know if i watch after the three-way shootout I think "that thing is damn overrated." The ending of a movie needs to be good. Damn good. Because it's the last thing you've seen once you're done with the movie, and it needs to leave a good taste in your mouth, not a terrible one.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: The Peacemaker on December 29, 2006, 09:49:10 PM
I know. I just stop it there and think to myself, "Heh! What a great spaghetti!" 'cause i know if i watch after the three-way shootout I think "that thing is damn overrated." The ending of a movie needs to be good. Damn good. Because it's the last thing you've seen once you're done with the movie, and it needs to leave a good taste in your mouth, not a terrible one.

The two most important sections of a film are the beginning and the end. The beginning braces you for the events ahead, and the end leaves the final impression.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: The Firecracker on December 30, 2006, 12:38:54 AM
"unlike the ending of The Mercenary which I can't stand. I just turn it off after the three-way shootout"

Turning off the movie after the three way shoot out is a little extreme. The Eduardo Fajardo character needed dealing with. And without the final few minutes you wouldn't get Nero's great last line.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on December 30, 2006, 04:26:43 AM
"Its ok to dream but dream with your eyes open!" ;)


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Banjo on December 30, 2006, 04:33:59 AM
You have to remember that the actual title of this film is "The Settling of Accounts", which really in no way promises a "big gundown". That was sort of false advertizing by the publicity department.

But does settle the two accounts between Corbet & Senator Brockston and his bodyguard Von Schulenberg, and Cuchillo and his accuser Chet Miller. 

This story was actually originally a Sicilian tale adopted to a western by Sollima with some changes, and Leone always thought that it was ruined by the changes.

Originally the Corbet character kills the innocent Cuchillo character before finding out that the Brockston  character was protecting his interests by shielding his son in law by accusing Cuchillo. It would have been a much darker SW. I think another change was the ages with the Cuchillo Character being the older one & vice versa for Corbet.


Cisco/Kermit posted this a while ago but here is how they break down the non Leone SW's on the Spaghetti Westerns in America Board, me personally I would take out #'s 7, 8, and Price of Power,  I haven't seen 9, 14, 15, 18, or The Hellbenders :

http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=4690.0

1. The Big Gundown 183


2. The Great Silence 162


3. Django 139


4. Death Rides a Horse 127


5. Face to face 99


6. A Bullet for the General 88


7. Sabata 82


8. Navajo joe 71


9. Django Kill.. 70


10. Companeros 67


11. Day of Anger 63


12  Keoma/The Mercenary 62


14. Return of Ringo 61


15. If You Meet Sartana....Pray for Your Death 55


16. Run, Man, Run 44


17. Cemetary Without Crosses 41


18. Any Gun Can Play 40


19= The Price of Power/The Hellbenders 37

I guess there maybe a few oddities because of the relative lack of availabilty of sw's when this (now)  old poll was conducted.Maybe its about time the SWWB repeated the exercise? ::)
 


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on December 30, 2006, 04:56:02 AM
Quote
Maybe its about time the SWWB repeated the exercise?

Good Idea


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: The Peacemaker on December 30, 2006, 07:41:25 AM

Turning off the movie after the three way shoot out is a little extreme. The Eduardo Fajardo character needed dealing with.

Yeah, but he should've been finished off before the duel.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Silenzio on December 30, 2006, 09:35:24 AM
"unlike the ending of The Mercenary which I can't stand. I just turn it off after the three-way shootout"

Turning off the movie after the three way shoot out is a little extreme. The Eduardo Fajardo character needed dealing with. And without the final few minutes you wouldn't get Nero's great last line.

I watch the ending occasionally. Next time i watch the Mercenary, I'll watch the end. But last time I didn't watch after the Three-Way-Shootout. Mainly because I have a bum-copy. There are parts that work terribly, it skips, freezes often, and there are green marks across the screen, like pixels. And it does that for the WHOLE last fifteen minutes of the film, go figure, at least it's during the part I don't like. Now that i have my new dvd player, I hope it works perfectly on that.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: The Firecracker on January 02, 2007, 01:34:28 AM
Yeah, but he should've been finished off before the duel.


Perhaps. The way I saw it was finish him off three minutes afterwards. There was no need for another 15 minutes.

I would say Companeros is a much smoother production but It lacks something Mercenary has.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Banjo on May 25, 2007, 04:25:39 AM
Leone Admirer's review from  his SW Virgins Guide:-

The Big Gundown

This film has been "Rated the best non-Leone western by visitors to the web forum at www.sartana.homestead.com" I personally don't agree with that, but i still felt The Big Gundown was a solid Spaghetti Western.
    After a brief introduction in which we are introduced to bountry hunter Jonathan Corbett (Lee Van Cleef), we find him at a wedding party which is intertrupted when three men inform the host and guests that a 11 year old girl has been raped and murdered by a bandit called Cuchillo (Thomas Milian). Corbett jumps at the chance to hunt the man down and so begins a chase across the south west of the US into Mexico with both sides meeting strange and sometimes violent characters.
     The plot of the film is interesting, and is obviously the blue print that the sequel Run Man Run would follow. The film contains many interesting characters that the two main protagonists encounter such as Mexican Chief of police, Cuchillo's wife and an Austrian count who wants to have a duel with Corbett due to his reputations.
     The film contains alot less comic situations then Sollima's sequel Run Man Run and I think that with the inclusion of Van Cleef's character this works in favour of this film. This also coupled with the rather adult situation that sent Corbett on his quest to find Cuchillo, which I must admit caught me a little off guard, and it adds to the whole mood of the film. However I must admit, Cuchillo, whilst a quite comedic fellow does act through the begining of the movie as if he did it and this contrast with the comedic side of the film doesn't sit that well, especially in a scene with the Mormans and a little girl.
      The acting in the film is of a high standard. Van Cleef is excellent as usual as the gruff gunfighter who takes all hell to find the lowely Cuchillo. Cleef is able to play his characters with a human side and you genuinely feel, and along with the direction see, how out of place he is in the Mexican Town, very reminiscant of Hackman in The French Connection II.
     Milian is effective as Cuchillo. He manages to seem to be an untrustworthy toe rag, but also amusing. However I would admit that the character isn't as developed as it is in Run Man Run and therefore some of his less tangible qualities can leave you will little sympathy at times. Milian's almost animalistic moves add to the rat like qualities of Cuchillo.
     The film is directed with gusto by Sollima. We have fast horse rides, great gun battles, a humerous bull fight, spiderous femme fatales and large panaramic vistas. The frames often have a dry, dirty look on them, especially in the Mexico regions and it really emphasises the non-glamerous aspects of Corbett's job.
     The Morriconne score is great also. I have to admit it took me a while to like it and I prefer the orchestral version of the main theme, not the one that plays over the main credits but it is effective, whilst not being one of his most memorable scores, and certainly not as good as the one in Run Man Run. The best bits of the score are first, when he uses some what I belive is Beethoven as part of the Austrian count's theme which I thought was nice dark humorous touch, an aspect that this film has a lot of, and when the sound becomes almost like Jungle animal noises during a scene where Cuchillo runs in some tall grass whilst being hunted like an animal. This is a similar effect to the dingo call in the begining of TGTBTU.
    This DVD has been created by major Spaghetti Fan, Franco Cleef. He has used a transfer from an italian print for the best a/v as well as because it contains all the scenes that have been removed from the US Theatrical release. The 2.2:35 cinematogrpahy translates well on this disc with little print damage and high sharpness levels. The only negative point being that the picture is perhaps a little washed out. The disc also includes the longest English soundtrack version avaliable. Cleef has sourced English elements from TV Broadcast's, VHS's and other sources for the best elements and also to find English dialogue for the scenes that had been removed on the US cut. For the scenes that never were dubbed into English, Franco has kept the Italian soundtrack and included subtitles. For a person who has never seen the US theatrical cut, I was able to see how much had been cut out and how little sense the US version must make! Some of the music has been taken from a digital source to dramatically increase the quality. All the information about the reconstruction can be found in the extensive production notes Franco has written for this disc. The film also has the original Italian soundtrack. Both English and Italian tracks are in PCM Mono.
   The disc also contains the original US Theatrical trailer along with the reconstruction notes.
    This is a damn fine western, mature themes mixed with gritty humour and violence. A definate recomendation for Spaghetti fans both new and old.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Banjo on May 26, 2007, 04:01:27 PM
Arizona Colts review:-

BIG GUNDOWN, THE- 1966-Sergio Sollima’s classic political western about an honorable sheriff recruited to track down a Mexican peasant believed to have raped a young girl. The Big Gundown promised in the films title becomes the ‘big letdown’ although it’s still a highly recommended affair as Van Cleef chases his quarry Cuchillo played by Tomas Milian throughout the picture learning later that all is not as it seems. LVC plays probably his most complex western character of all his Italian entries and Tomas Milian is great to watch as always. He would reprise the Cuchillo role in the sequel RUN MAN, RUN also directed by Sollima. TBG was severely truncated for its US release some 20 minutes being removed. A fan made DVD has the cut footage reinstated.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: O'Cangaceiro on June 27, 2008, 11:24:05 PM
I saw the Franco Cleef version, wow, what a treat!!! I hope some day MGM will do justice to this film and release the full uncut version. Van Cleef is superb and Milian plays one of his best spaghetti western roles ever. And what can I say about Morricone's score that has not already been said?  O0


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Banjo on June 28, 2008, 01:26:17 PM
I hope some day MGM will do justice to this film and release the full uncut version.
Well hopefully they'll bring in the LVC impersonator from the GBU SE DVD because all those tiny inserted snippets of Italian overdubbing(with subtitles) ruin the flow of Franco's disc,as brilliant a job as he's done with the reconstruction. :)


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on June 28, 2008, 05:02:01 PM
Agree with you there Banjo, I thought he did a great job with GBU.  O0


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on January 14, 2009, 08:37:40 AM
Gundown is only the 90 minute version and it does look very good. I must say that I was disappointed with the film (maybe that extra quarter of an hour really makes a difference).
I've now seen the Franco Cleef restoration (thanks, CJ!), and yes, the 14 missing minutes make a big difference. The restoration isn't as sharp as the J-transfer, but the longer cut is essential. DRAH is still my fave non-Leone spaghetti, but this is next in line.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: uncknown on January 16, 2009, 02:28:49 PM
I've now seen the Franco Cleef restoration (thanks, CJ!), and yes, the 14 missing minutes make a big difference. The restoration isn't as sharp as the J-transfer, but the longer cut is essential. DRAH is still my fave non-Leone spaghetti, but this is next in line.

CInema Retro mag has a great interview in the current issue with Franco Cleef about the restoration.
So far its only available in the UK but the site says it will soon be shipping to the USA!


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on January 16, 2009, 02:36:47 PM
I'm aware of the article, although I haven't seen it yet. My understanding is that single issues are unavailable--you have to take out a subscription to the magazine before you can get that particular issue. I don't mind doing that, only I can't afford to this side of payday. But I fully intend to run that article down as soon as is feasible . . .


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: uncknown on January 16, 2009, 03:01:05 PM
i HAVE JUST LEARNED THAT THE CURRENT ISSUE JUST SHIPPED!

There is supposed to be a teaser preview on their site but it isn't up yet.
Ill give the link when they have it.
Sorry you cant afford it, I know about lack of funds :( but its only three issues so  36 dollars American.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: uncknown on January 16, 2009, 03:09:33 PM
I saw the Franco Cleef version, wow, what a treat!!! I hope some day MGM will do justice to this film and release the full uncut version. Van Cleef is superb and Milian plays one of his best spaghetti western roles ever. And what can I say about Morricone's score that has not already been said?  O0

Unforunately, Columbia owns the rights and doesn't give a damn!


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on January 16, 2009, 04:16:44 PM
i HAVE JUST LEARNED THAT THE CURRENT ISSUE JUST SHIPPED!

There is supposed to be a teaser preview on their site but it isn't up yet.
Ill give the link when they have it.
Sorry you cant afford it, I know about lack of funds :( but its only three issues so  36 dollars American.
Yeah, Christmas did me in, but I'll be healthy again come payday. Come to think of it, that's next week! I guess I'll be getting that subscription pretty soon after all . . .


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on January 16, 2009, 04:20:48 PM
Unforunately, Columbia owns the rights and doesn't give a damn!
Not only that, but what are they gonna do with the bits that were never dubbed into English? Ain't no way they're ever gonna pay for new dubbing a la the GBU restoration. Which means that even if they DID release the film, they would only ever give us the shortened version.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: O'Cangaceiro on January 16, 2009, 07:05:13 PM
Not only that, but what are they gonna do with the bits that were never dubbed into English? Ain't no way they're ever gonna pay for new dubbing a la the GBU restoration. Which means that even if they DID release the film, they would only ever give us the shortened version.

I guess it all depends on how much money they (Columbia) figure they can make if they fully restore the movie to its original length. But whatever they decide, I can (and will) live with the Franco Cleef version with the Italian subbed parts, even if some of the English subs do not reflect what they are saying in Italian. For example, just after Corbett kills Brockston, his Mexican host says (in the subs): "There's been enough blood shed, Mr. Corbett. His adventure is over"; but I believe he is actually saying something like "You've made me lose a good business deal, Mr Corbett...but I don't regret it as much as you may think".   Perhaps our friend Titoli or anyone whose mother tongue is Italian could provide the exact translation.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: stanton on January 17, 2009, 02:09:21 AM
Why don't you try to get the german DVD?

You can watch the film in italian with english subs. But I'm afraid the subs are the same as mentioned above.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: O'Cangaceiro on January 17, 2009, 08:31:20 AM
Why don't you try to get the german DVD?

You can watch the film in italian with english subs. But I'm afraid the subs are the same as mentioned above.

No need. I also have the Spanish version, which I just checked and the translation of the sequence I mentioned above is virtually the same I provided. I also undertand Italian fairly well.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on January 20, 2009, 08:50:18 AM
This article is sounding better and better. Here's Cinema Retro's announcement:

Quote
Cinema Retro issue #13 is now shipping to all subscribers. Among the other great features in the latest issue is entertainment journalist Bruce R. Marshall's fascinating story behind Lee Van Cleef's 1960s cult western The Big Gundown. At this point in his career, Van Cleef was relishing the fact that Sergio Leone's two Dollar westerns had rescued him from financial catastrophe when he could not longer find suitable work in Hollywood. Unlike Clint Eastwood, however, Van Cleef was happy to continue on in the Spaghetti Western genre, making films of varyiing degrees of quality, but always maintaining his position as one of Europe's top movie stars. His 1968 western The Big Gundown teamed him with another popular star of the genre, Tomas Milian under the direction of Sergio Sollima. The film stood out as being a cut above the rest of the pack, but what most fans don't realize is that the movie they've seen is probably not the original, far superior version. In his article for Cinema Retro, Bruce R. Marshall takes a comprehensive and fascinating look at a grass roots effort to restore this movie to its original glory. Marshall interviews a fan who goes under the name of Franco Cleef whose interest in the film has lead him to approach Columbia/Sony about investing in an official restoration of crucial scenes that were cut. However, the film's cachet is not commercial enough to interest Hollywood. Thus, Cleef has taken it upon himself to painstakingly piece together the most complete English -language version of the film possible, using disparate sources to find the relevant footage. (An official restored version of the film has been released in Germany by Kochmedia-dvd.com, but it does not have an English soundtrack.) In Marshall's interview with Cleef, every nuance and aspect of the film is discussed, including specific missing scenes which greatly alter the motivations of the characters. The article also features exclusive comments from the film's director Sergio Sollima as well as a sidebar by Retro's German correspondent Mike Siegel on the history of the German restoration. The article also presents an abundance of extremely rare stills, movie posters and soundtracks from the film.

Glad to hear our old friend Mike Siegel gets a look in as well.  O0


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: mike siegel on January 20, 2009, 09:00:37 AM
The great Austrian-German label Koch - Media hired me to make four documentaries on Sergio Sollima.
So after editing hours of interview footage for two months, Sollima feels like a grandpa to me. I really
like the man & his movies. He's smart and very funny too. I wish to 60 min. doc on his three westerns
would be available in english... insightful and often hilarious.

As for RETRO:
you can buy single issues at eBay from the shop: spyguise entertainment.
But a subscription is more than worthwhile. It would be a bit expensive, if it was
a monthly magazine. But every other few months $12,00.- should be possible.
I think. That's one pizza.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: uncknown on January 21, 2009, 01:21:44 PM
Mike,

the CR article has a lobby card that depicts Cuchillo retrieving his knife after  he kills Shep.
is this the extra footage in the German dvd?
I have never seen that shot in any version.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on January 26, 2009, 05:32:04 PM
My copy of the CR issue with the article on The Big Gundown restoration arrived today. Something in the sidebar caught my eye: "With a 'Pal length' of 105 minutes and 58 seconds (which equals 110 minutes theatrical running time) Koch - Media's version of The Big Gundown is the longest in the world: it contains some footage playing at the aftermath of the showdown which wasn't even included on the Italian DVD master."

C'mon, Mike, you can do better than that. What exactly aren't we seeing on the Franco Cleef version?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: uncknown on January 27, 2009, 01:59:09 PM
My copy of the CR issue with the article on The Big Gundown restoration arrived today. Something in the sidebar caught my eye: "With a 'Pal length' of 105 minutes and 58 seconds (which equals 110 minutes theatrical running time) Koch - Media's version of The Big Gundown is the longest in the world: it contains some footage playing at the aftermath of the showdown which wasn't even included on the Italian DVD master."

C'mon, Mike, you can do better than that. What exactly aren't we seeing on the Franco Cleef version?


Mike isn't too good at math. LOL! :)

there is app. 2 seconds more in the German version>

btw did you like the article Dave?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on January 27, 2009, 02:23:44 PM
I liked the layout and all the cool pictures. Content-wise, I didn't learn much that I didn't already know. The one bit of exciting news in it you've just squashed.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: uncknown on January 29, 2009, 02:01:11 PM
.... Content-wise, I didn't learn much that I didn't already know.....

really! I was amazed to learn about all the different English language versions around the world.
I suspect I am not the only one
 :)


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Dust Devil on August 04, 2009, 03:47:12 PM
La resa dei conti is a timeless classic. Strangely wrought characters, good performances, solid direction, interesting and throughout most of the movie well balanced story, and great music. I know there are flaws, as said by many here, I agree, but it's still a great and above all entertaining SW. Even the political part of the plot was carried on correctly without pathetic and exaggeration. What I didn't understand is how the last part turned to be the weakest, cause that's when the great music kicks in... I only didn't like the part when Corbett steals the horse from the family in the desert, it just didn't fit in the character's description.


8/10



P.S. Sheriff Jellycole was great.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Novecento on August 05, 2009, 07:30:24 AM
I absolutely adore the cane fields scene at the end. It is brilliant.

However, excluding this incredible ending, I actually prefer "Run Man Run" to this one with "Face to Face" being my least favorite of the three.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Jill on August 06, 2009, 08:06:39 AM
For me the ending is a little strange: it seems Lee was seriously wounded, and he's all like "It's but a scratch."


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Groggy on September 08, 2009, 06:24:12 PM
Sayeth Groggy:

Quote
Amidst the general flotsam and jetsam of Spaghetti Westerns (over 400 in all) that followed the colossal success of Sergio Leone's Dollars trilogy, there were a handful of films that, despite the limitations of budget and the subgenre, are actually pretty good. In 1966, director Sergio Sollima took a highly-politicized story by left-wing screenwriter Franco Solinas (The Battle of Algiers), transposed it to a Western setting, toned down the politics and created The Big Gundown, creating an entertaining, stylishly-directed oater in the process. Despite the usual Spaghetti faults, the result is easily the best Spaghetti I've seen to date, a truly entertaining and creative film that fires on most cylinders.

Jonathan Corbett (Lee Van Cleef) is a ruthlessly efficient lawman with political ambitions who singlehandedly clears a West Texas territory of outlaws. Before he can set his sights on elective office, however, Corbett is hired by unscrupulous businessman Brokston (Walter Barnes) to track down a wily Mexican, Cuchillo (Tomas Milan) accused of killing and raping a twelve year old girl. Corbett immediately sets off in pursuit, but finds Cuchillo a most elusive prey; he outwits, outfoxes and frustrates the lawman at every turn - ultimately leading Corbett into a Mexican jail. At some point along the way, Corbett realizes that Cuchillo has been set-up by Brokston, and the two criminals band together against Brokston, his Austrian bodyguard (Gerard Herter), and a huge posse of bloodthirsty gunmen.

The Big Gundown doesn't do a lot that's overly original, but it does it so well that one is loathe to criticize it. The political overtones are mostly toned-down and work as part of the story rather than an obnoxious writer's message (see the atrocious Bullet For the General); fortunately, aside from Cuchillio's expert knife-throwing the film is also lacking the over-the-top weapon-fetishizing of the genre's weaker entries - even the body count is fairly subdued by Spaghetti standards, and there's no intrusive cartoonishness to mar the procedings either. There are some weaknesses in story structure which hurt, but do not seriously, namely the cop-out happy ending - which, if Christopher Frayling is to believe, was much darker in Solinas' original story. One might also criticize the typically poor dubbing and awkward English-translated dialogue, but all Spaghetti fans will be accustomed to this.

Sollima's direction is perfect; he handles the action and showdowns with an aplomb Leone would envy, captures the stark yet beautiful Almerian outback with striking clarity. The movie has some truly inspired set pieces, most notably the lengthy scene where Brokston's posse hunts Cuchillo through a cane field (an arresting sequence Solinas would later recycle for Pontecorvo's Burn!). The film moves at a brisk pace, never stopping long enough to get boring (though some of the scenes run a bit long in the restored Franco Cleef version) but keeping things interesting without a bloody gunfight every five mintues. Ennio Morricone contributes a typically strong, vibrant and catchy score (sans a fairly obnoxious title song); the interesting duel music, in which a guitar theme is interspersed with snatches of Fur Elise, was recently coopted by Tarantino in Inglourious Basterds.

Lee Van Cleef is his usual badass self; Corbett is just a bit more complex than most Spaghetti heroes, and Cleef affectively makes him an intimidating screen presence and a conflicted protagonist. Cuban-born Tomas Milan would soon become a big name in Spaghetti circles, but rarely would he better his turn here; he makes Cuchillo a fascinating, vibrant and loveable trickster almost on a par with Eli Wallach's Tuco in The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. The supporting cast includes the usual array of Spaghetti faces: Walter Barnes, Antonio Casas, Fernando Sancho, Benito Stefanelli, Roberto Camardiel.

The Big Gundown may well be the best Spaghetti not directed by a man named Leone. It's certainly among the most entertaining, lacking the genre's usual excess and cartoonishness in favor of a taut, entertaining and stylish story.

http://nothingiswrittenfilm.blogspot.com/2009/09/big-gundown.html (http://nothingiswrittenfilm.blogspot.com/2009/09/big-gundown.html)

Rating would be somewhere between a 7 and 8.

I hope this doesn't seem dismissive, I just didn't have the energy to write a super-analytical review. I may try and track down some of Sollima's other work, or perhaps even embark on a broader Spaghetti quest in the near-future if I get the opportunity.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on September 08, 2009, 06:59:24 PM
Quote
At some point along the way, Corbett realizes that Cuchillo has been set-up by Brokston, and the two criminals band together against Brokston, his Austrian bodyguard (Gerard Herter), and a huge posse of bloodthirsty gunmen.
Uh . . . kind of a spoiler, ain't it?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Groggy on September 08, 2009, 07:04:27 PM
Sure.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: El Gorila on July 09, 2011, 04:53:44 PM
I just watched The Big Gundown for the first time and found it to be absolutely fantastic !
The DVD  was the Franco Cleef restored version , and the print was nearly flawless.
The acting of the main characters is first rate and Lee Van Cleef is outstanding as the absolutely bad ass yet painfully conflicted Corbett.
There are hiccups in the pacing of the film but I found it to be every bit as entertaining as the Dollars movies.

My favite line is when Corbett says to Cucillo ; " You must have come out of your mother running." ;D

Great flik !

Here's a link to the DVD.

http://cultcine.com/products-page?category=1&product_id=82


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on July 10, 2011, 04:41:05 PM
Agreed I like it.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: emmo26 on April 24, 2012, 06:16:03 AM
Someone mentions on YT comments that this is the Franco Cleef version on youtube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJIUmVB4LlY&feature=related

Anyone seen this?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on April 24, 2012, 03:22:47 PM
Yea it looks like it may be the Franco Cleef restoration, except the Franco Cleef version has subtitles in the cut sequences.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: emmo26 on April 27, 2012, 04:06:18 AM
Just seen this film....reminded a bit of a Spagetti Western version of Midnight Run.

One question,  I always thought that the Ennio´s Musical cues for characters was introduced in OUTITW, but I´d noticed the beautiful score that the Baron had when dueling with Corbett....

Is there any earlier examples of this or is this the first movie to do this?



Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on April 27, 2012, 04:56:17 AM
It may be, but "Guns For San Sebastion" may have had these leitmotifs also, but I haven't seen it for a while, I think GBU has the wah, wah, wha, wah, wahaaaaaa, using different instruments to designate Blondie & Tuco.

There are at least two other Morricone scored Westerns where there are prominent leitmotif's for the characters Run Man Run, and The Mercenary.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: emmo26 on May 21, 2012, 05:38:16 AM
Mr Ugly comes to town.... is in reference to GBU...where the american promotions misidentified Lee Van Cleef´s character?


(http://i50.tinypic.com/14azdjs.jpg)


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on May 21, 2012, 12:03:33 PM
Mr Ugly comes to town.... is in reference to GBU...where the american promotions misidentified Lee Van Cleef´s character?


(http://i50.tinypic.com/14azdjs.jpg)

Yes, I just saw the GBu commentary with Frayling and he mentioned this poster: they confuse who is Bad and who is Ugly, and therefore Van Cleef was erroneously billed as "Mr Ugly Comes to Town" in other SW's!

As you can see here, the trailer confuses who is Bad and who is Ugly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13EUXqIwDkQ

I guess that The Big Gundown was released before GBU was, perhaps the distributors were basing "Mr. Ugly" on the erroneous identifications in the trailer? I am not certain if it is the trailer or something else that made them think Van Cleef was the Ugly, but it is definitely a mistake.

(In Italy, the movie was called Il Buono It Bruto Il Cativo (ie. the Good, the Ugly, and the Bad); but for the English version of the movie they changed the order in the title, cuz "the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" sounds a lot better. But there is no doubt that in every version of the movie, Van Cleef is the Bad and Tuco is the Ugly. (Hence the words on the screen identifying each character)


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: El Gorila on May 27, 2012, 11:19:59 PM
I noticed something interesting while watching Big Gun Down for wbout the 60th time.
In the part where Cuchillo is being chased through the cane field by riders on horseback,
the music score uses animal sounds, including what sounds like monkeys or apes.
The sequence is a damned close match for the cornfield chase in Planet of the Apes.
The music on POTA also uses monkey sounds, and the way the scene is shot even matches some of the camera angles from TBGD.
Do you think the POTA scene may have been inspired by TBGD ?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Novecento on September 04, 2012, 06:21:58 PM
New Blu-ray - with English audio apparently:

http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B009229EQI/ref=s9_simh_gw_p74_d1_i1?pf_rd_m=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0NZ56E6FHMCJ0P8XZ93N&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=463375173&pf_rd_i=301128

Sprache: Deutsch (Dolby Digital 2.0), Deutsch (Dolby Digital 2.0 Mono), Englisch (Dolby Digital 2.0 Mono), Italienisch (Dolby Digital 2.0 Mono)
Untertitel: Deutsch, Englisch



Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Cusser on September 04, 2012, 08:55:32 PM
Is this the full-length version like Franco Cleef made?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: stanton on September 05, 2012, 01:54:21 AM
Of course


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on September 05, 2012, 03:19:47 AM
cool O0


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Groggy on September 06, 2012, 04:30:29 AM
Mr Ugly comes to town.... is in reference to GBU...where the american promotions misidentified Lee Van Cleef´s character?


(http://i50.tinypic.com/14azdjs.jpg)

I'm sure Lee loved being dubbed Mr. Ugly. :D


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Novecento on September 08, 2012, 07:41:29 AM
Quote
Sony Pictures’ restoration of Sergio Solima’s THE BIG GUNDOWN will receive its international premiere in a new 4K restoration featuring the original Italian soundtrack. The screening will take place on 20th October.

http://www.cinemaretro.com/index.php?/archives/7000-PARK-CIRCUS-ANNOUNCES-CLASSIC-FILM-RESTORATIONS-AT-THE-LONDON-FILM-FESTIVAL.html

BFI link here:

https://whatson.bfi.org.uk/lff/Online/default.asp?doWork::WScontent::loadArticle=Load&BOparam::WScontent::loadArticle::article_id=B5D6674B-1C6B-4614-BF95-DE3B3A58F38D&BOparam::WScontent::loadArticle::context_id=DA5E0E55-8FBE-4753-962E-7A1AB95922E5


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on September 08, 2012, 10:02:05 AM
It already played the Film Forum in N.Y. in June. It looks really good.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Novecento on September 08, 2012, 12:50:19 PM
Seems you are right. I guess "international premiere" is a misnomer then!


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on September 08, 2012, 09:31:49 PM
It already played the Film Forum in N.Y. in June. It looks really good.

was it the full "Franco Cleef restoration" version, identical to the dvd you gave me?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on September 08, 2012, 09:56:22 PM
Yes. I don't know for a fact it was in 4K, though. Is it possible that that they sent out a 2K version, and held back the 4K one for this event?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: O'Cangaceiro on September 11, 2012, 03:12:24 AM
Franco Cleef will always have my respect for the restoration he made of The Big Gundown. Thanks to his efforts, many of us did enjoy the uncut version in English for many years before Sony decided to put its $#it together.

Kudos to Franco Cleef!!  O0 O0 O0 O0 O0


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on September 11, 2012, 03:47:58 AM
Franco Cleef will always have my respect for the restoration he made of The Big Gundown. Thanks to his efforts, many of us did enjoy the uncut version in English for many years before Sony decided to put its $#it together.

Kudos to Franco Cleef!!  O0 O0 O0 O0 O0

Agreed!


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on September 12, 2012, 08:51:05 AM
Die blau-ray: http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=203946


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on November 14, 2012, 08:24:59 AM
Savant reviews the German blu: http://www.dvdtalk.com/dvdsavant/s4033resa.html


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Novecento on November 14, 2012, 09:14:14 PM
For Region A-locked people, rumor has it that a US release may be on its way...


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on November 15, 2012, 06:53:24 AM
It would make sense, given that the new DCP restoration played at Film Forum last summer.


Title: EN
Post by: uncknown on December 01, 2012, 02:54:54 PM
Why are folks here praising Sony for their "restoration"?
A true restoration would have all the restored scenes dubbed in ENGLISH like was done with GBU.
The guy who dubbed LVC could do the same here.

Stick with Franco Cleef's version which also has a far superior, stereo music mix

screw SONY >:(
BRUCE MARSHALL


Title: Re: EN
Post by: O'Cangaceiro on December 05, 2012, 09:05:52 AM
Why are folks here praising Sony for their "restoration"?
A true restoration would have all the restored scenes dubbed in ENGLISH like was done with GBU.
The guy who dubbed LVC could do the same here.

Stick with Franco Cleef's version which also has a far superior, stereo music mix

screw SONY >:(
BRUCE MARSHALL

Are you saying that the Sony restored version still contains a few scenes in Italian in the English audio track?  :o ???


Title: Re: EN
Post by: cigar joe on December 05, 2012, 03:50:03 PM
Are you saying that the Sony restored version still contains a few scenes in Italian in the English audio track?  :o ???

FrancoCleef's version still contains a few scenes in Italian in the English audio track.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: emmo26 on December 05, 2012, 04:17:11 PM
I dont like the replacement voice of LVC in GBU.  A bit too gravely for my liking.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on December 05, 2012, 06:43:24 PM
I dont like the replacement voice of LVC in GBU.  A bit too gravely for my liking.

but he's better than both Wallach and Eastwood 40 years later.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Groggy on December 05, 2012, 06:48:16 PM
but he's better than both Wallach and Eastwood 40 years later.

Seconded.


Title: Re: EN
Post by: O'Cangaceiro on December 05, 2012, 07:18:41 PM
FrancoCleef's version still contains a few scenes in Italian in the English audio track.

Sure it does, CG, but unlike Sony I don't think that Franco Cleef has a professional studio with actors to make the English dubbing of the Italian audio scenes. I aso doubt he would have the ability of reproducing the background sounds.

Franco Cleef did a remarcable job, presumably with a portion of the equipment available to studios like Sony. I would not expect him to dub the Italian scenes into English, so I can live with a few subtitled scenes with Italian audio. However, I would expect Sony to dub into English those scenes if they are going to "restore" the movie to what would have been an uncut English version.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Novecento on December 05, 2012, 07:42:27 PM
Sure it does, CG, but unlike Sony I don't think that Franco Cleef has a professional studio with actors to make the English dubbing of the Italian audio scenes. I aso doubt he would have the ability of reproducing the background sounds.

Franco Cleef did a remarcable job, presumably with a portion of the equipment available to studios like Sony. I would not expect him to dub the Italian scenes into English, so I can live with a few subtitled scenes with Italian audio. However, I would expect Sony to dub into English those scenes if they are going to "restore" the movie to what would have been an uncut English version.

GBU is a hugely popular, famous film. MGM knew they were going to make their money back and more with the SE.

TBG is by no means a hugely popular famous film. Sony is not going to make much money from it at all.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: O'Cangaceiro on December 06, 2012, 12:40:08 AM
GBU is a hugely popular, famous film. MGM knew they were going to make their money back and more with the SE.

TBG is by no means a hugely popular famous film. Sony is not going to make much money from it at all.

I don't think it would take a gazillion $$$ to dub a few scenes into English. Besides, Sony also made a "restored" version of Major Dundee, and I am not sure they made a lot of money from it either.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: stanton on December 06, 2012, 02:19:20 AM
But surely more than with TBG.
Peckinpah is cult, Sollima is a pretty unknown director for the English speaking market. In fact only the fans of the Italian genre cinema know him well.

Anyway I prefer to have the restored scenes with subs then with a new dub. For GBU also.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on December 06, 2012, 06:36:08 AM
I don't think it would take a gazillion $$$ to dub a few scenes into English. Besides, Sony also made a "restored" version of Major Dundee, and I am not sure they made a lot of money from it either.

It would be nice to have it both ways.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: uncknown on December 06, 2012, 01:12:34 PM
For the whole story on the butchery of TBG  and the efforts of Franco Cleef et. al to restore it , please check out my article in CINEMA RETRO.
You can click on the link below for a preview.

thanks!
Bruce Marshall


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Novecento on December 06, 2012, 04:22:15 PM
Besides, Sony also made a "restored" version of Major Dundee, and I am not sure they made a lot of money from it either.

FYI - Twilight time are releasing Major Dundee on BD in February (presumably with their usual limit of 3000 copies at $30 each). Should have been released already but was delayed for "further restoration". Can't wait...

But surely more than with TBG.
Peckinpah is cult, Sollima is a pretty unknown director for the English speaking market. In fact only the fans of the Italian genre cinema know him well.

Exactly.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Senza on February 26, 2013, 05:20:25 PM
I loved the scene in the desert where Milian's character convinces LVC he has a snake bite, I could just imagine something like that playing out between Tuco and Blondie.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Franks Harmonica on May 15, 2013, 03:00:33 PM
I had the honor of watching the 4K print back in December and was blown away by the presentation!! The only major difference between the Franco Cleef version, that I noticed at least, was the opening scene with the 3 outlaws. There is more interaction between Corbett and the men and the young guy begs for his life and then tries to shoot Corbett in the back. I cannot wait for the blu-ray version!!
I believe there were a few other scenes restored, but nothing that overtly stood out to me.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on May 16, 2013, 04:58:17 AM
I had the honor of watching the 4K print back in December and was blown away by the presentation!! The only major difference between the Franco Cleef version, that I noticed at least, was the opening scene with the 3 outlaws. There is more interaction between Corbett and the men and the young guy begs for his life and then tries to shoot Corbett in the back. I cannot wait for the blu-ray version!!
I believe there were a few other scenes restored, but nothing that overtly stood out to me.

In which one? Franco Cleef's or the 4K.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Franks Harmonica on May 16, 2013, 10:07:12 AM
The restored version that was touring the country has the extra scenes intact.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on May 16, 2013, 10:33:10 AM
There is more interaction between Corbett and the men and the young guy begs for his life and then tries to shoot Corbett in the back.
That was in the DCP I saw last summer.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on June 01, 2013, 08:54:38 AM
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/topic/323974-spaghetti-western-classic-the-big-gundown-in-october-from-grindhouse-releasing/


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on June 02, 2013, 03:43:59 AM
is this gonna be the full Franco Cleef version (spliced with Italian subtitles)?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on June 02, 2013, 04:09:35 AM
is this gonna be the full Franco Cleef version (spliced with Italian subtitles)?
yea good question.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Novecento on June 02, 2013, 04:29:08 AM
That's what they released in Germany so it seems highly likely it will be


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on August 13, 2013, 11:48:20 AM
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Big-Gundown-Blu-ray/54101/#Review


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 13, 2013, 12:57:28 PM
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Big-Gundown-Blu-ray/54101/#Review

is this identical to the one you gave me? Not talking about quality, I mean, it has all the same scenes?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on August 15, 2013, 05:23:34 PM
Well, I don't know, but I'm guessing it is.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 15, 2013, 08:18:39 PM
is this BRD Swiss or German? I see this page you just linked to says it's being released from Switzerland's Explosive Media, though that link you provided a few months ago to HTF says that Germany's Explosive Media is releasing it. Are these actually separate releases or are they the same thing?

Also, I know that the BRD is region-free, but has there been any chatter about whether this is gonna (finally!) get an official US release?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: stanton on August 16, 2013, 01:48:15 AM
Only one release. It is a German Blu Ray.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 26, 2013, 12:16:29 AM
I just watched the movie again – the Franco Cleef restoration with English dialogue in most parts, and other scenes with English subtitles – courtesy of DJ.

It's nice to have the full version (or as full as you can get), though the video quality is pretty bad.
The English dubbing on this movie is so bad, it's laughable. (The new brd may fix the image quality, but I don't imagine it can do anything about the terrible dubbing).

Some of the episodes, especially in the beginning, are simply spag-outrageous, like the isolated farm with the woman and all her boy toys, and the scene with the Mormons, and the scene with the priests. Just the sort of insane outrageousness you might expect from spags, and I was rolling eyes throughout. Van Cleef was great as always, and I liked Thomas Milian (as bad as his dubbing job is), though the crazy spag episodes are annoying.

However, the movie starts to get better from when Corbett first visits the bordello. And then, at the end, the entire "hunt" scene is simply incredible - from the moment Cucillio is first scene running through the cane fields, until the end of the movie (not sure exactly how long that is, maybe 20 minutes or so?) The camerawork is great, the music, everything. What an amazing, amazing scene. So, even though I did not enjoy the first 2/3 of it, ending on such a terrific note left me with good feelings about the movie.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 26, 2013, 12:53:19 AM
I've been reading up a bit on this Geramn blu-ray release of The Big Gundown/Der Gehetzte der Sierra Madre , and I have three questions, I'd appreciate if anyone can answer any of 'em:

I) Is it absolutely certain that this BRD/DVD package is region-free?
I know the previous links DJ provided say it is region-free, bu I was just reading the DVD Savant's page http://www.dvdtalk.com/dvdsavant/s4033resa.html and he says it is Region 2. What's the deal with that? I need to know for certain before I purchase it, cuz my blu ray player only plays Region A/1 discs.


II) Can anyone tell me how I can purchase that blu-ray disc in America? I can't use the German Amazon site. (Only one person is selling it on the American Amazon site, so he's trying to charge a ridiculous $60 US for it). Is there another site that I can order it from for a reasonable market value?

III) Finally (I don't remember if I have asked this already), but is there any word at all on whether there will be a US release of this BRD anytime in the future? I really don't mind waiting, and I'm only gonna consider buying this German blu ray if there's no word about it's potential release in America.

Thanks!


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on August 26, 2013, 05:23:08 PM
Why can't you use amazon.de? It works for me.

I don't know for a fact that The Big Gundown blu will get a U.S. release, but I'm guessing it will. Several other spags have come out here already. A My Name is Nobody blu is due in either October or November, I don't recall which.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 26, 2013, 07:10:47 PM
Why can't you use amazon.de? It works for me.


because I don't speak German


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: stanton on August 27, 2013, 02:17:35 AM
If you want to order it from Amazon.de I can help you.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 27, 2013, 01:04:09 PM
If you want to order it from Amazon.de I can help you.

Thanks, I appreciate that. DJ says he thinks it'll come out in USA, so I'll wait a little. Eventually, if I decide to order it from there, I'll take you up on it  O0


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on August 27, 2013, 01:30:19 PM
There's an English page at amazon.de, anyway.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on October 05, 2013, 07:40:35 PM
Dec. 10: http://www.amazon.com/Big-Gundown-Blu-ray-DVD-Combo/dp/B00FMDL4UK/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1381023319&sr=1-1&keywords=the+big+gundown+grindhouse

This is apparently the press release:

Quote
This is going to be a 4 disc special [i.e. EXPENSIVE] edition:

 
◾Grindhouse Releasing is proud to present the first-ever U.S. home video release of the greatest Spaghetti Western you've never seen - Sergio Sollima's widescreen epic THE BIG GUNDOWN. The legendary Lee Van Cleef stars as a relentless bounty hunter on the trail of Cuchillo (Euro-film superstar Tomas Milian), a savage Mexican outlaw accused of the rape and murder of a twelve-year-old girl. Written by ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST screenwriter Sergio Donati, THE BIG GUNDOWN features an incredible soundtrack by Ennio Morricone. This Special Edition contains 15 additional minutes of gunslinging action never before seen in America.

ALL REGION

Special Features:

Four Disc Deluxe Limited Edition Combo Pack - Two Blu-rays, One DVD And One Bonus CD
Individually Numbered And Limited To 3000 Copies

◾Spectacular New 2K Digital Restoration Of The Original Uncensored English Language Version, Newly Expanded With Three Additional Scenes

◾LA RESA DEI CONTI - The Complete, 110 Minute Director's Cut Presented In Italian With Optional English Subtitles And Special Musical Subtitles

◾Bonus CD - THE BIG GUNDOWN - Original Soundtrack By Ennio Morricone

◾Compelling In-Depth Interviews With Director Sergio Sollima, Star Tomas Milian And Screenwriter Sergio Donati (ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST)

◾Audio Commentary By Western Film Experts C. Courtney Joyner And Henry C. Parke

◾Liner Notes By C. Courtney Joyner And Euro-Music Expert Gergely Hubai

◾Extensive Still Galleries, Trailers And TV Spots

◾AND OTHER SURPRISES!


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on October 05, 2013, 10:26:38 PM
so that German distributor is now releasing it in America?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on October 06, 2013, 02:28:48 PM
Huh? It's a different edition. As far as I can make out, the German edition has one Blu-ray disc, and 2 DVD discs (and no CD). It only has one cut of the film, the content of the Blu-ray, which is duplicated on one of the DVDs. The U.S. edition has 2 Blu-rays, one for the English language dub, and one for the Italian (if I'm reading the specs correctly). The DVD is for the extras only. I'm not sure why the two cuts have to be on separate discs. Maybe someone can help us out here.

Hey, on the German release, do they have two different German dubs, an older one and a new one?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on October 06, 2013, 03:42:58 PM
So this is an American company releasing this edition?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on October 06, 2013, 04:45:52 PM
Considering they call themselves "Grindhouse," I'm guessing, Yeah.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on October 06, 2013, 05:59:12 PM
I was just wondering cuz after such a long wait, the German one comes out and then this one so quickly one after the other, I wondered if it was the same company releasing both.

Have you bought the German yet? How's the picture quality compared to the version you gave me?

IMO, the movie is a little overrated; I find parts of it ridiculous (I guess some of the way-over-the-top nonsense you see in some spags), but it starts getting better toward the end, and the final hunt is absolutely incredibly amazingly awesome; the last 20 minutes were so good, it left me with really good feelings about a movie that I didn't enjoy all that much through some early ludicrous episodes (eg. the farm with the male sex slaves; the Mormon camp; the church with the priest who used to be a gunslinger).

Anyway, if the blu ray has the fullest-available footage (in English language and parts in English subtitles, I presume) and has good quality image, I'll definitely buy it, especially if it is not available for rental on Netflix.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on October 06, 2013, 06:24:17 PM
I didn't buy the German, I've been waiting for the US release. I'm pretty sure the image is going to look gorgeous--the DCP of it I saw at Film Forum was. We may get reviews of it before it's released to know for sure, but we may have to wait until after the release date. The sets are limited to 3,000, so Grindhouse may not be sending out screeners to reviewers.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: stanton on October 07, 2013, 12:44:40 PM


Hey, on the German release, do they have two different German dubs, an older one and a new one?

Yes, the old theatrical one for the 86 min version, which is more or less useless for the uncut version as the dub changes a lot to fill the gaps.

And one made by a TV station about 10 years ago which lacks atmosphere and is of mediocre quality for the chosen voices. But is faithful by following the Italian version.
Only van Cleefs explanation why he doesn't want to become a senator is again the cheap cliche version. Here is indeed only the Italian version to be preferred.

I usually watch it in Italian with English subs.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: uncknown on December 07, 2013, 01:29:49 PM
 I just received my copy from Grindhouse!

After having  carefully watched  the film I can report the following about this release:

It is not a completely restored English language version.

As I predicted this is the 'commonwealth version' - the version that played in Australia & Canada.
It restores two full scenes:
- Cuchillo love scene
- Monastery scene.
So, there are appox. 5 minutes of new never before scene English language footage.

The cane field chase  is shortened - it is NOT the full-length version! :(

The Shep/Cuchillo duel is also shortened

The opening scene with Van Cleef and the three outlaws is the poorly edited, misleading, Columbia version.


I think all fans were hoping for a GBU style "restoration" - i.e. dubbing the cut footage with voice actors - but this has not happened.

The new 95 minute version looks great, and is certainly a big improvement . However, I think the most satisfying version is still the fan made Franco Cleef dvd.

enjoy!
bruce  marshall

ps I have not watched the German language version (w/English subs) but  I am sure it is the same 110 cut as the import dvd.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Novecento on December 07, 2013, 08:37:32 PM
The cane field chase appears to be the full-length version!

It would be great if that's the case. I remember being seriously upset by the Columbia version removing the great shot of Cuchillo crouching down in the cane field sequence as the camera then pulls up and over him to reveal the vastness of the cane fields and his pursuers.

ps I have not watched the German language version (w/English subs) but  I am sure it is the same 110 cut as the import dvd.

I believe that to have an English audio option with English subs where only Italian audio is available. However I'm not sure if it includes all the available English audio (as this Grindhouse one claims) or not


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on December 07, 2013, 10:06:45 PM
so does this new BRD have all the footage on the Franco Cleef version?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: uncknown on December 09, 2013, 03:11:17 PM
so does this new BRD have all the footage on the Franco Cleef version?

The Italian version is complete.
The English language version has 10 minutes missing.
The FC version is complete with app. 3 minutes of footage in Italian.
bruce marshall

ps the extras are fantastic! worth getting for the interviews with Solima & Donati!


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: uncknown on December 09, 2013, 03:15:06 PM
I remember being seriously upset by the Columbia version removing the great shot of Cuchillo crouching down in the cane field sequence as the camera then pulls up and over him to reveal the vastness of the cane fields and his pursuers.


It is   NOT there!!!!!!!!! :'(


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on December 09, 2013, 04:16:09 PM
so if I already have the Franco Cleef dvd, then there's no reason (other than image/audio quality) for me to get any of the new brd's?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on December 10, 2013, 07:48:52 AM
U.S. residents should wait until the B&N sale (beginning 17 Dec.) before purchasing. You will save 40%. You may have to special order it for store delivery if your store doesn't normally carry it. Of course, you can get it online, but make sure to purchase it during the sale period.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: uncknown on December 10, 2013, 01:05:31 PM
so if I already have the Franco Cleef dvd, then there's no reason (other than image/audio quality) for me to get any of the new brd's?

That is up to you pardner.

There are three long interviews as part of the extras (Donati, Milian, Solima) that are fantastic.
The Blu-Ray & dvd versions look fantastic  (bettr than the FC)
there is a soundtrack cd and the Italian version.

An embarassement of riches no matter what you decide!
bruce marshall


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on December 10, 2013, 03:32:43 PM
I went to B&N to see if they'd gotten it in and, as I expected, they hadn't. They were, of course, glad to order it for me. It should arrive by Monday, the day before the sale begins. I'll go in Tuesday and act pleasantly surprised when they knock off 40% before giving me my 10% membership discount.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on December 13, 2013, 11:24:41 AM
Amazon.com is now listing the set for US$ 24.94, almost as cheap as B&N will be selling it next Tuesday.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on December 14, 2013, 02:41:12 PM
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Big-Gundown-Blu-ray/48622/#Review


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: uncknown on December 16, 2013, 02:17:42 PM
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Big-Gundown-Blu-ray/48622/#Review

"course there is nothing about the cuts and restored scenes.
that's what happens when amateurs review films >:D
bruce


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: uncknown on December 16, 2013, 02:19:14 PM
It is there!!!!!!!!!

but the Shep/CUchillo showdown is the same cut down version.
You will have to watch the Italian br to see and hear the whole damn thing :'(
bruce


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on December 17, 2013, 02:02:40 PM
http://worldcinemaparadise.com/2013/12/13/blu-ray-review-the-big-gundown/


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on December 17, 2013, 05:11:14 PM
so the final showdown (the whole chase and shootout sequence) is identical on the Italian BRD and the Franco Cleef dvd?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on December 18, 2013, 12:47:37 PM
The B&N sale doesn't include The Big Gundown! What a bunch of communists! OK, now we know; better to go with Amazon on this.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: uncknown on December 18, 2013, 01:40:20 PM
so the final showdown (the whole chase and shootout sequence) is identical on the Italian BRD and the Franco Cleef dvd?

the video is  the same.
FC remixed the sound in stereo which makes a big difference!
bruce


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: uncknown on December 18, 2013, 01:47:40 PM
http://worldcinemaparadise.com/2013/12/13/blu-ray-review-the-big-gundown/

the review makes a major error: the restored scenes do have English dialog.
to summarize:
Columbia?PEA prepared a 95 minute English language version of the film:
-USA 3 scenes cut
- Canada 1 scene cut (monastery- 2 parts)
- Australia 1 scene cut (rosita)
bruce


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on December 18, 2013, 02:27:19 PM
the review makes a major error: the restored scenes do have English dialog.
that's what happens when professionals review films  >:D


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: uncknown on December 27, 2013, 02:14:45 PM
that's what happens when professionals review films  >:D

even "professionals" make mistakes :-[ :-[ :-[

I have revised my review.
The cane field chase has NOT been restored.

Lo siento, amigos
bruce marshall


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on December 27, 2013, 02:18:10 PM
I have revised my review.
The cane field chase has NOT been restored.
Even in the Italian version?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: uncknown on December 27, 2013, 02:43:51 PM
Even in the Italian version?

The Italian version is complete - no cuts!
bruce


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on December 31, 2013, 12:42:01 PM
The FC version is complete with app. 3 minutes of footage in Italian.
bruce marshall

What about the music?

Regarding the American cut of the film [from a BD booklet essay by Gergely Hubai]:
Quote
Morricone's music is often victimized by [the] cuts, though only one of his cues was removed entirely from the American version: "Dopo la condanna" which is played during the meeting with the three Colorado hoodlums was simply removed because the corresponding scene was shortened by several minutes and the music didn't fit anymore. It's apparent that the editors of the American version had access to the music as well, because there are other changes to be found: the meeting with the unhelpful settler, for instance, was scored with two cues tracked from other parts of the movie--the scene plays without music in the Italian version. If there happened to be music during a tampered scene, the editors either applied some fading to mask their efforts, or simply cut the music at a particularly repetitive passage. The scoring of the finale is noticeably different--the American version uses a more triumphant reprise of the main theme instead of Morricone's original composition.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on June 01, 2014, 02:49:17 PM
Gary FINALLY reviews the Grindhouse release: http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film4/blu-ray_reviews_62_/the_big_gundown_blu-ray.htm


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Jordan Krug on March 23, 2015, 10:12:27 PM
I just competed my full resolution version that combines the two cuts, retaining as much english as possible, and subtitles for the italian dialog where necessary...not an easy task as nearly every scene in the italian cut has extra shots, lines of dialog etc. I know a guy named "franco cleef" did this back a while ago with dvd, but now I can watch the uncut film in hd with Lee van cleefs voice! The audio edits are pretty smooth considering the two tracks are quite different (including different music placement etc - on music I defered to the Italian where possible.  I will probably upload a large mkv file of it up at myspleen (a torrent site for fan edits). The grindhouse blu Ray set is fantastic...I kinda wish they had done this but now I understand why they couldn't, I think the average viewer would be confused by the constant switching between italian and English...but I really don't mind it and I took matters into my own hands :)


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on March 24, 2015, 03:12:13 AM
nice  O0


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on March 24, 2015, 05:53:58 AM
You da man!  O0


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Cusser on March 24, 2015, 07:39:46 AM
I just competed my full resolution version that combines the two cuts, retaining as much english as possible, and subtitles for the italian dialog where necessary.......  I will probably upload a large mkv file of it up at myspleen (a torrent site for fan edits). ...

That sounds great, we all thank you.  If you do upload it, I'd be interested, but would need "simple" instructions.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Novecento on March 24, 2015, 08:20:15 AM
The grindhouse blu Ray set is fantastic...I kinda wish they had done this but now I understand why they couldn't, I think the average viewer would be confused by the constant switching between italian and English...but I really don't mind it and I took matters into my own hands :)

Didn't the German Blu-Ray do this?

http://www.amazon.de/Gehetzte-Sierra-Bonus-Disc-Blu-ray-Limited/dp/B009229EQI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427206686&sr=8-1&keywords=the+big+gundown


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on March 24, 2015, 09:07:29 AM
I just competed my full resolution version that combines the two cuts, retaining as much english as possible, and subtitles for the italian dialog where necessary...not an easy task as nearly every scene in the italian cut has extra shots, lines of dialog etc. I know a guy named "franco cleef" did this back a while ago with dvd, but now I can watch the uncut film in hd with Lee van cleefs voice! The audio edits are pretty smooth considering the two tracks are quite different (including different music placement etc - on music I defered to the Italian where possible.  I will probably upload a large mkv file of it up at myspleen (a torrent site for fan edits). The grindhouse blu Ray set is fantastic...I kinda wish they had done this but now I understand why they couldn't, I think the average viewer would be confused by the constant switching between italian and English...but I really don't mind it and I took matters into my own hands :)

besides for the BRD vs. DVD things, can you explain how your cut differs from Franco Cleef's? I have FC's DVD, and to the best of my recollection, his version also uses LVC's voice for the English, and in scenes only available in Italian, it uses the Italian voice and English subtitles, right? How does your version differ from his?


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Jordan Krug on March 24, 2015, 10:01:05 AM
besides for the BRD vs. DVD things, can you explain how your cut differs from Franco Cleef's? I have FC's DVD, and to the best of my recollection, his version also uses LVC's voice for the English, and in scenes only available in Italian, it uses the Italian voice and English subtitles, right? How does your version differ from his?


My version is in HD, and I think my audio cuts will be smoother.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Jordan Krug on March 24, 2015, 10:03:36 AM
Didn't the German Blu-Ray do this?

http://www.amazon.de/Gehetzte-Sierra-Bonus-Disc-Blu-ray-Limited/dp/B009229EQI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427206686&sr=8-1&keywords=the+big+gundown

I'm not sure, it's possible they did. From what I've read and seen via screencaps I think the grindhouse disc has better picture & audio quality though. The colors are slightly better (in my opinion), it doesn't have any dirt or scratches and the german picture is slightly cropped.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Lil Brutto on March 25, 2015, 02:49:28 PM
Where did you find time to do this?? :o

 ;)



Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: uncknown on February 24, 2017, 10:09:44 PM
Hey all.

I have an extra copy of the CINEMA RETRO issue which contained my article on the film and Mike Siegels's interview with Sergio Solima.
[You can read more about it by clicking on the link below]

I will part with it for a one year 2017 subscription to CINEMA RETRO - Currently $36 iirc.
It is a hard to find magazine and will undoubedtly appreciate in value as it becomes scarcer.

Send me a message if you are interested.
Bruce Marshall


My article on the restoration of the The Big Gundown
http://thekinskifiles.blogspot.com/2009/01/cinemaretro-13-big-gundown.html


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Spikeopath on September 12, 2017, 12:26:25 PM
Adding >

If you don't kill me right now, it'll be the last mistake you make.

La resa dei conti (The Big Gundown) is directed by Sergio Sollima and written by Sollima and Sergio Donati. It stars Lee Van Cleef, Tomas Milian, Walter Barnes and Gerard Herter. Music is by Ennio Morricone and cinematography by Carlo Calini.

Superior Spaghetti Western with shades of Zapata for good measure, The Big Gundown finds Van Cleef as bounty hunter - cum - unofficial lawman Jonathan Corbett, whose reputation for bringing in the criminals, dead or alive, has caught the attention of business baron Brockston (Barnes). With an interest in getting into politics, Corbett is sold on Brockston's offer of political help if he will do a job for him. The job is to hunt down a Mexican rogue by the name of Cuchillo (Milian) who is alleged to have raped and murdered a 12 year old girl. Tracking Cuchillo across the land, the Mexican proves to be a slippery customer, and more importantly, Corbett begins to doubt the veracity of the charges against him.

Adios Amigo.

What do you need for a great Italo Western? A leading man with screen presence supreme? Check! Rogue antagonist able to overact opposite the leading man whilst still exuding charm personified? Check! Scorching vistas? Check! A musical score so in tune with the story it's a character all by itself? Check! And violence? Check! Sollima's movie has it all.

Much of the film is about the manhunt and how the two men involved develop a relationship. Cuchillo claims he's being set up and seems to have friends in every town featured in the play. Corbett is a dandy with a gun, but he's not perfect, he can be outsmarted and get caught cold. There's good thought gone into the screenplay in this respect, not putting the anti-hero up as an infallible superman.

Then there's the side-bar narrative strands that show Sollima's political bent, even though this is hardly a heavily politico piece. From class struggles and racism, to asides on the justice system and the fat cats who operate around the system, Sollima does enjoy dangling such carrots. With zippy set pieces fuelled by brooding machismo that is in turn enhanced by the top work from Carlini and Morricone (it's one of Moricone's best scores, real dynamite), this is grade "A" Spaghetti and well worth feasting on. 9/10


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Moorman on November 18, 2017, 07:01:12 PM
I got to see this film. I love Lee Van Cleef. He is probably my favorite western actor... 


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on November 18, 2017, 09:18:28 PM
I got to see this film. I love Lee Van Cleef. He is probably my favorite western actor... 

This and Death Rides a Horse are his next best two films


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Moorman on November 19, 2017, 04:16:19 AM
This and Death Rides a Horse are his next best two films
I have seen Death Rides a Horse.  I have a bad copy of it that came with a westerns box set I grabbed a few months back.  I want a clear blue ray version.  I believe Amazon has one. I think it's a very underrated western.


Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on November 19, 2017, 04:33:51 AM
I have seen Death Rides a Horse.  I have a bad copy of it that came with a westerns box set I grabbed a few months back.  I want a clear blue ray version.  I believe Amazon has one. I think it's a very underrated western.

I'm dating myself but I actually saw The Big Gundown and Death Rides a Horse and of course all of the Leone films on their first releases on huge Times Square Theater screens.

About 10-12 years ago I got the Japanese widescreen DVD that was in pristine condition and it was quite the improvement. I pretty much got as many of the Japanese releases that I could.



Title: Re: La resa dei conti aka The Big Gundown (1966)
Post by: Cusser on November 19, 2017, 06:13:06 AM
I'm dating myself but I actually saw The Big Gundown and Death Rides a Horse and of course all of the Leone films on their first releases on huge Times Square Theater screens.

I also saw all the spaghetti westerns on first run at the theaters.  First (Arizona) was GBU in June 1968, I was 15.  We had heard the "Montenegro" single on the radio, my family liked westerns, and we knew Clint Eastwood from Rawhide.  So several us us kids (including my brother who could drive) went to see it, couldn't figure out why all the Italian names were in the titles....could not believe the excitement/novelty of The Ecstasy of Gold scene...so only had to wait like 35 years for almost-complete soundtrack music to be released.  A few months later the two previous Leone westerns were released as a double feature here.

By the way, Once Upon a Time in the West got way smaller release in Phoenix than did Death Rides a Horse, Big Gundown, Day of Anger.