Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Once Upon A Time In The West => Topic started by: Herry Grail on July 02, 2016, 07:40:07 PM



Title: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: Herry Grail on July 02, 2016, 07:40:07 PM
I was looking to pick up one of the Frayling books to read more in depth about OUATITW. One I found online that really caught my eye was "OUATITW: Shot by Shot." The problem is, I can't figure out if it is an old book, an upcoming book, or what.

Some of the book-ordering sites say it's coming sometime in the future, but a bunch of sketchy PDF download sites say you can download a copy now for free if you sign up.

It really sounds like something I would love, but I can't find any credible information about it. Does anyone know? Thanks!


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 02, 2016, 11:02:34 PM
I never heard of this book.

I am aware of 3 books Frayling wrote on Leone: Something to Do With Death, Spaghetti Westerns, and Once Upon a Time in Italy.

If you have not yet read any of Frayling's books, here's the deal IMO: "Something to Do With Death" is the biography, that's IMO the Bible of Leone. That's the most essential one. Has a chapter on each Leone film, with full discussion of production history and discussion of themes. (In addition to discussion of Leone's life, like any other biography.) If I have one book to grab before my house burns down, that's the one.

"Spaghetti Westerns" is a study of Spaghetti Western films, (written almost  two deacdes before the biography) most prominent are Leone's films but also others spags.That book has a special chapter on Once Upon a Time in the West - the only single movie to have its own chapter in that book (there is a separate chapter on the Dollars Trilogy). This book has more technical discussion, written in somewhat of a more nerdy-academic way, the "film study" style. This book is not the easiest read.

"Once Upon a Time in Italy" is the official book that came along a Leone exhibit they had in a California museum around a decade ago. It's a big coffee-table-sized book with full color photos mostly of movie posters of Leone's films in various languages; also of the cover of soundtrack albums. Also, there are interviews in there that Frayling did with many of the important players in Leone movies. Many if not all of these interviews were already incorporated into the discussions in "Something to Do With Death," but in "Once Upon a Time in Italy" the interviews are presented in full, Q&A form.


So, there you have it. IMO, for a serious Leone fan, you should eventually get all three books. If you want to start with one, or only have money to spend on one now, I'd say "STDWD" is most important.

As Roger Ebert used to say to someone who was about to watch a great movie for the first time, "I envy the experience you are about to have."

Enjoy!  :)


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: chris on July 03, 2016, 02:06:18 AM
Once Upon a Time in the West: Shot by Shot is a new book by Sir Christopher Frayling which is due for release on May 23 2017.

According to Amazon:

It has 336 pages and is the definitive book on Sergio Leone's landmark Western, Once Upon A Time In The West (1968).

An in-depth analysis and shot by shot look at this iconic film by the world's leading authority on Sergio Leone, Sir Christopher Frayling, who coined the phrase "Spaghetti Western."

Set photographer Angelo Novi was given complete access on the film and was present every day. This book features his stunning in-depth photography of every aspect of the shoot, including never-before-seen outtakes, off-screen shots and deleted scenes.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Once-Upon-Time-West-Shot/dp/1909526339 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Once-Upon-Time-West-Shot/dp/1909526339)

 


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 03, 2016, 02:15:23 AM
Once Upon a Time in the West: Shot by Shot is a new book by Sir Christopher Frayling which is due for release on May 23 2017.

According to Amazon:

It has 336 pages and is the definitive book on Sergio Leone's landmark Western, Once Upon A Time In The West (1968).

An in-depth analysis and shot by shot look at this iconic film by the world's leading authority on Sergio Leone, Sir Christopher Frayling, who coined the phrase "Spaghetti Western."

Set photographer Angelo Novi was given complete access on the film and was present every day. This book features his stunning in-depth photography of every aspect of the shoot, including never-before-seen outtakes, off-screen shots and deleted scenes.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Once-Upon-Time-West-Shot/dp/1909526339 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Once-Upon-Time-West-Shot/dp/1909526339)

  

whoo hooo!

This is amazing news!

So should I lock it in now on the UK Amazon for the price guarantee? or should I wait till it probably goes to the US Amazon, then I won't have to pay shipping? (or play the game one way or the other with currency exchange rates)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Once-Upon-Time-West-Shot/dp/1909526339

just want to know if I should do the pre-order now or if there is any advantage I'd have to waiting, whether with currency exchanges or any other reason?


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: stanton on July 03, 2016, 02:30:30 AM
whoo hooo!

This is amazing news!

So should I lock it in now on the UK Amazon for the price guarantee? or should I wait till it probably goes to the US Amazon, then I won't have to pay shipping? (or play the game one way or the other with currency exchange rates)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Once-Upon-Time-West-Shot/dp/1909526339

just want to know if I should do the pre-order now or if there is any advantage I'd have to waiting, whether with currency exchanges or any other reason?

Why not steal it from a library?


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: Novecento on July 03, 2016, 04:30:05 AM
Once Upon a Time in the West: Shot by Shot is a new book by Sir Christopher Frayling which is due for release on May 23 2017.

According to Amazon:

It has 336 pages and is the definitive book on Sergio Leone's landmark Western, Once Upon A Time In The West (1968).

An in-depth analysis and shot by shot look at this iconic film by the world's leading authority on Sergio Leone, Sir Christopher Frayling, who coined the phrase "Spaghetti Western."

Set photographer Angelo Novi was given complete access on the film and was present every day. This book features his stunning in-depth photography of every aspect of the shoot, including never-before-seen outtakes, off-screen shots and deleted scenes.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Once-Upon-Time-West-Shot/dp/1909526339 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Once-Upon-Time-West-Shot/dp/1909526339)

 
Wow - sounds great.


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: cigar joe on July 03, 2016, 07:16:37 AM
Good news!


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: Herry Grail on July 03, 2016, 09:20:47 AM
Once Upon a Time in the West: Shot by Shot is a new book by Sir Christopher Frayling which is due for release on May 23 2017.

According to Amazon:

It has 336 pages and is the definitive book on Sergio Leone's landmark Western, Once Upon A Time In The West (1968).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Once-Upon-Time-West-Shot/dp/1909526339 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Once-Upon-Time-West-Shot/dp/1909526339)
 

Thank you...I guess that's definitive, then. The U.S. versions of Amazon and similar sites do not have it up for pre-order, nor is is teased anywhere I could find. At some point I must have seen that entry but lost track of it, as I remember some conflicting release dates. The May '17 one was farther out than others.

As for the "Download the PDF now" sites, I knew they were sketchy, but they made me think it was an old book that maybe had an upcoming re-release.


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: Herry Grail on July 03, 2016, 09:31:57 AM
I never heard of this book.

I am aware of 3 books Frayling wrote on Leone: Something to Do With Death, Spaghetti Westerns, and Once Upon a Time in Italy.

If you have not yet read any of Frayling's books, here's the deal IMO: "Something to Do With Death" is the biography, that's IMO the Bible of Leone. That's the most essential one. Has a chapter on each Leone film, with full discussion of production history and discussion of themes. (In addition to discussion of Leone's life, like any other biography.) If I have one book to grab before my house burns down, that's the one.

"Spaghetti Westerns" is a study of Spaghetti Western films, (written almost  two deacdes before the biography) most prominent are Leone's films but also others spags.That book has a special chapter on Once Upon a Time in the West - the only single movie to have its own chapter in that book (there is a separate chapter on the Dollars Trilogy). This book has more technical discussion, written in somewhat of a more nerdy-academic way, the "film study" style. This book is not the easiest read.

"Once Upon a Time in Italy" is the official book that came along a Leone exhibit they had in a California museum around a decade ago. It's a big coffee-table-sized book with full color photos mostly of movie posters of Leone's films in various languages; also of the cover of soundtrack albums. Also, there are interviews in there that Frayling did with many of the important players in Leone movies. Many if not all of these interviews were already incorporated into the discussions in "Something to Do With Death," but in "Once Upon a Time in Italy" the interviews are presented in full, Q&A form.


So, there you have it. IMO, for a serious Leone fan, you should eventually get all three books. If you want to start with one, or only have money to spend on one now, I'd say "STDWD" is most important.

As Roger Ebert used to say to someone who was about to watch a great movie for the first time, "I envy the experience you are about to have."

Enjoy!  :)


Thank you so much for taking all that time and effort! I'd been hunting around for clues about which to get first, especially regarding detail about OUATITW, and you've done a great job for me.

I did pick up "Once Upon A Time In Italy" at the library, and it did seem like an extended version of a commemorative magazine, since it had so many short articles, so after what you've said its unusual presentation makes sense now.

After listening to his commentaries, which are the type I like best (enthusiastic, constant, and both descriptive and informative), and his very interesting on-screen contributions, I really look forward to reading Frayling's books. I would imagine he did an entire OUATITW commentary, but a decision was made to edit it into an all-stars one. The new book will no doubt improve on the missed opportunity to include his whole commentary as a separate track.


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: dave jenkins on July 03, 2016, 10:18:07 AM
So should I lock it in now on the UK Amazon for the price guarantee? or should I wait till it probably goes to the US Amazon, then I won't have to pay shipping? (or play the game one way or the other with currency exchange rates)

Do the pre-order now (it costs nothing). If and when amazon.com offers the book, do a price comparison. If the amazon.com offer is the better of the two, cancel the UK order.

Great news about the book, though. It will help me live a little bit longer.


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: dave jenkins on July 03, 2016, 10:44:30 AM
PS: Why isn't this thread in the OUATITW section?


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: Herry Grail on July 03, 2016, 10:50:33 AM
Here's the link to the Amazon.com listing, which is unreachable through its own search function (I guess until it becomes available for pre-order). There is no price listed, but Google Books shows a $75 price at Amazon, which it may have shown at one time. Both the American and UK Amazons show it releasing on the 23rd of May, but I bet that's a very fluid date this early out:
https://www.amazon.com/Once-Upon-Time-West-Photographs/dp/1909526339?ie=UTF8&

Books a Million online does quote $75, and says it's releasing May 1st (maybe all May release dates say May 1st):
http://www.booksamillion.com/product/9781909526334

Indie Bound says $75 but has the May 23rd date:
http://www.indiebound.org/book/9781909526334

The Google Books page has it showing as a June 30, 2016 release!
https://books.google.com/books/about/Once_Upon_a_Time_in_the_West.html?id=D8SMrgEACAAJ

The Reel Art Press site has nothing, but they have a "don't hesitate" contact page!
http://www.reelartpress.com/home/contact-us

I hope Frayling reads these boards...can't wait.


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: Herry Grail on July 03, 2016, 10:54:28 AM
PS: Why isn't this thread in the OUATITW section?

I thought it was an old book, and most of those, being non-specific, were discussed in the General Discussion section. It was kind of a Frayling question, really.

I do agree that it should be under News or OUATITW. Mods please move to the proper place  :)


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 03, 2016, 12:01:03 PM
Do the pre-order now (it costs nothing). If and when amazon.com offers the book, do a price comparison. If the amazon.com offer is the better of the two, cancel the UK order.

Great news about the book, though. It will help me live a little bit longer.

weird that the pre-sale is ten months before the book goes on sale! My credit card won't even last that long - my credit card expires at the end of 2016, my bank will send me a new one then


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: noodles_leone on July 05, 2016, 07:44:10 AM
It's a bit magical how we keep getting Sergio Leone "NEWS" in 2016. The book definitely sounds magical too.


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: cigar joe on July 05, 2016, 12:35:16 PM
It's a bit magical how we keep getting Sergio Leone "NEWS" in 2016. The book definitely sounds magical too.

Sure does.


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: dave jenkins on July 05, 2016, 12:44:27 PM
Chatting with Drink last night, he suggested something that hadn't occurred to me. I assumed the title referred to the fact that Frayling is going through the film, in sequence, analyzing each separate camera set-up as he comes to it. That may in fact be what the book does, but Drink's idea is that there is a play on words going on. Given the fact that Angeli Novi's on-set photographs are being featured, each of the "shots" referred to could be those. And of course, being a film with a lot of gun-play, the title could even be referencing the discharge of firearms. It will be interesting to see what it is that finally gets published.


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 05, 2016, 04:24:09 PM
Chatting with Drink last night, he suggested something that hadn't occurred to me. I assumed the title referred to the fact that Frayling is going through the film, in sequence, analyzing each separate camera set-up as he comes to it. That may in fact be what the book does, but Drink's idea is that there is a play on words going on. Given the fact that Angeli Novi's on-set photographs are being featured, each of the "shots" referred to could be those. And of course, being a film with a lot of gun-play, the title could even be referencing the discharge of firearms. It will be interesting to see what it is that finally gets published.

I actually thought that's what YOU were saying, when you mentioned "shots" and Angelo Novi, I thought you were saying that "shot" refers to "photos."  ;)

anyway, what the hell, could be many double entendres. Triple entendres?  ;)



Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 05, 2016, 04:25:05 PM
CJ, can you move this thread to the OUATITW board? i think that's where it belongs


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: Herry Grail on July 05, 2016, 04:52:08 PM
CJ, can you move this thread to the OUATITW board? i think that's where it belongs

I agree. Again, sorry...I'm doing penance through my new signature line.


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: Novecento on July 06, 2016, 12:54:08 PM
I assumed the title referred to the fact that Frayling is going through the film, in sequence, analyzing each separate camera set-up as he comes to it. That may in fact be what the book does, but Drink's idea is that there is a play on words going on. Given the fact that Angeli Novi's on-set photographs are being featured, each of the "shots" referred to could be those.

Probably a combination of both.


And of course, being a film with a lot of gun-play, the title could even be referencing the discharge of firearms. It will be interesting to see what it is that finally gets published.

Clever title.


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: Herry Grail on July 06, 2016, 01:26:15 PM
I watched OUATITW again last night...there are so few films I can watch multiple times over just a few weeks. I realize "shot by shot" is a pun, but I do hope Frayling gets into the profoundly complex character motivations and actions, which a scene-by-scene analysis could really explore:

1. Why does Harmonica make an appointment with Frank rather than just seek him out?

2. What is Jill really doing when she ransacks the bedroom? Is she that craven to just be looking for money? She settles down when she finds the mementos from her wedding, but surely she wasn't that frantic just to find her dress and bouquet?

3. Why does Cheyenne question Jill about Harmonica as though they had not seen him together at the posado?

4. Why does Jill tell Cheyenne he can keep any money he finds, and then act like she's giving it all up to go "back to civilization," when just the day before she seemed so dedicated to building a life out of her new circumstances?

5. Is Harmonica's quoting of Cheyenne to Jill ("one more killing") supposed to suggest that Harmonica is slightly supernatural? Of all his actions, that's the only one (eavesdropping on that one line) that seems completely unrealistic. If not, doesn't it make him seem kind of creepy? What is the actual point of his lurking around the night before?

6. Does Harmonica rip the frills off Jill's dress to reduce her to her true nature as he knows it, so that she can be "real"? (He's been researching things, even if only an afternoon has passed, and Frank knows her history.) Or is he trying to make her look sexy to attract the bad guys outside? Or does he know she will become the water-bearing Queen Bee of a new city, and he's just getting her dressed for it?

7. Does he send her out for water to bait Frank's men, or to get her used to fetching water because he knows the purpose for Sweetwater?

8. Why does Cheyenne (who's shown holding his rifle as if prepared to use it) let Frank's men get so close to Jill rather than doing away with them before they pose such an imminent threat?

9. Does Jill approach Wobbles because she's angry and means what she says, or is she getting him to lead Harmonica to Frank? (The latter option is what I assumed upon first viewing, especially because of their conspiratorial acknowledgement of each other afterward, but only if Jill truly expects to deal with Frank herself does later plot development make sense, as discussed below.)

10. Why does Cheyenne, who has a gang, sneak onto Frank's train by himself, like Harmonica does? Why not just attack it, as they do later?

11. This is the big one for me: what does Harmonica mean when he says "there's another bastard and he's getting further away"? Presumably he wants to go save Jill, yet we find later that he and Harmonica are happy to let her "deal with" Frank without interfering, only lamenting that she'll come back "if she comes back." As Dave suggested in another thread I started, is it because the two heroes are "postmodern" in their motivations rather than traditional, and therefore content to "let Jill be Jill" because she's self-sufficient and independent, almost a peer of theirs (or a mother in Cheyenne's case)? If that's the case, was Harmonica just wanting to get back to Frank to react to the resolution rather than influence it?

12. Why is there an old railroad track buried at Sweetwater (as discovered by Cheyenne)?

13. Does Jill's affectionate behavior toward Frank simply show that she's trying to make him feel confident he has dominated her, or is there more? I'm reminded of the complexity of Capucine's motivations in "Walk on the Wild Side," which can be inferred to suggest that she's a nymphomaniac rather than a traditional 60's-movie unwilling victim of prostitution.

14. Does Harmonica turn in Cheyenne because they have a conspiracy to help Jill? I would say yes, of course, yet the later deleted sequence where Harmonica turns his gun to face Cheyenne at the Sweetwater gate could be interpreted as indicating he feared Cheyenne would be holding a grudge. Normally I wouldn't bring up this point, because their plot seems so obvious, but the gun sequence also makes me wonder why the Judas dialogue seems so unironic.

15. Why does Harmonica call her "a remarkable woman"? Because she just coordinated a "solution" with Frank, including a rape he didn't try to intervene to stop? Do Cheyenne and Harmonica see an earthiness, a "manliness" in her that they admire? Do they not care about her honor because they don't view women and sexuality like traditional Western heroes? (And why does he seem so initially perplexed when she congratulates him? He just won her property in an auction!)

16. Do Cheyenne and his gang confront and kill Morton and his henchmen (newly "acquired" from Frank) to finally avenge Frank's framing of them for the McBain massacre, or to resolutely save Jill from their threat (while Harmonica took care of Frank himself), or both? (I've read that this confrontation was a result of Cheyenne's escape, but surely this was a different train altogether from the one taking Cheyenne to Yuma.)

17. Does the eye contact that Harmonica's brother makes with each one of the members of Frank's gang imply that he was one of them? If so, it suggests a more complicated nature to Harmonica's grudge, that his quoting of names to Frank throughout the film implies that he views Frank as a betrayer of men as well as a killer of them. (Also, how do I get a piece of that arch, LOL.)

18. Actually, this last one is a movie-making question, not a character-motivation one: Does the camera linger on Harmonica at the end (and the music switch to Cheyenne's playful theme) to make us wonder if Harmonica is going to turn around? There is a moment when their path veers to the left...is that a tease, or are they just avoiding something in their way?

I'm putting all this here because they are some of my own "shot by shot" questions and thoughts. They're not criticisms...quite the opposite; they're discussion points, and proof to me that this is a brilliantly complex movie about not only the Old West but about that Ancient Race itself.


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 06, 2016, 03:25:55 PM
RE: #2, she is looking for money. she doesn't find it and decides to leave. she is about to leave when Cheyenne stops her


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: stanton on July 07, 2016, 06:19:15 AM


18. Actually, this last one is a movie-making question, not a character-motivation one: Does the camera linger on Harmonica at the end (and the music switch to Cheyenne's playful theme) to make us wonder if Harmonica is going to turn around? There is a moment when their path veers to the left...is that a tease, or are they just avoiding something in their way?



He he, that's easy. It is simply the wrong score. Originally the America theme plays on, or better the piece which is a variation of this, and which is called Finale. Paramount made a stupid mistake there and never bothered to change it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y4Ml1qRGHk

The Cheyenne theme comes only later as exit music over the closing credits or over a black image.


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 07, 2016, 08:09:05 AM
@Herry Grail: regarding the end music, which stanton mentioned, see the article here
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=10564.0


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: dave jenkins on November 17, 2016, 02:18:41 PM
amazon.co.uk is showing a release date now of 26 Sept. 2017.


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: mike siegel on December 03, 2016, 03:06:48 PM
It's gonna be great. I have about 100 behind the scenes NOVI stills from WEST and they are just great...


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: drinkanddestroy on December 03, 2016, 05:32:41 PM
I watched OUATITW again last night...there are so few films I can watch multiple times over just a few weeks. I realize "shot by shot" is a pun, but I do hope Frayling gets into the profoundly complex character motivations and actions, which a scene-by-scene analysis could really explore:

1. Why does Harmonica make an appointment with Frank rather than just seek him out?

2. What is Jill really doing when she ransacks the bedroom? Is she that craven to just be looking for money? She settles down when she finds the mementos from her wedding, but surely she wasn't that frantic just to find her dress and bouquet?

3. Why does Cheyenne question Jill about Harmonica as though they had not seen him together at the posado?

4. Why does Jill tell Cheyenne he can keep any money he finds, and then act like she's giving it all up to go "back to civilization," when just the day before she seemed so dedicated to building a life out of her new circumstances?

5. Is Harmonica's quoting of Cheyenne to Jill ("one more killing") supposed to suggest that Harmonica is slightly supernatural? Of all his actions, that's the only one (eavesdropping on that one line) that seems completely unrealistic. If not, doesn't it make him seem kind of creepy? What is the actual point of his lurking around the night before?



I'll try to answer some of your questions

IMO:

RE: #1: This is just movie stuff; no need to think too deeply into it. The movie works better, having the men waiting at the station, waiting endlessly ... because an appointment was made. Works better than Harmonica walking up to Frank and pulling a gun on him. Don't worry too much about it from a plot perspective.


RE: #2 and #4: My assumption always was that, after the funeral, when Sam advised her to leave Sweetwater and she insisted on staying, it's because she thought there was gold. She stays, and then I believe you immediately see her looking for the gold. The next morning, she realizes there is no gold there, and decides to leave. (Whether or not she would have left anyway even if she had found the gold, we can only guess.) But IMO, she stayed to look for the gold, and finding no gold, decided to leave. And that's why she told Cheyenne, if you find it it's yours, meaning, there's nothing there to find.

RE: # 3: The exact opposite is true. He is not questioning her as if he didn't meet Harmonica; He questions her because he has seen Harmonica! He sees this strange guy who is playing a Harmonica, quick on the draw, claims to have killed three men who wear Cheyenne's dusters ... he wants to know who this guy is. In a Western, anytime a strange man with a gun comes to town, all the gunslingers get suspicious. It's like in FAFDM as in numerous other Westerns  when The Man With No Name arrives in El Paso, he tells the little kid Ferndando: I want you to tell me if any new people come into town.

RE: #5: Harmonica's character is indeed supposed to be sort of supernatural-like. "Something to do with death." This is discussed extensively here http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=5032.0


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: drinkanddestroy on December 03, 2016, 05:51:29 PM


6. Does Harmonica rip the frills off Jill's dress to reduce her to her true nature as he knows it, so that she can be "real"? (He's been researching things, even if only an afternoon has passed, and Frank knows her history.) Or is he trying to make her look sexy to attract the bad guys outside? Or does he know she will become the water-bearing Queen Bee of a new city, and he's just getting her dressed for it?

7. Does he send her out for water to bait Frank's men, or to get her used to fetching water because he knows the purpose for Sweetwater?

8. Why does Cheyenne (who's shown holding his rifle as if prepared to use it) let Frank's men get so close to Jill rather than doing away with them before they pose such an imminent threat?

9. Does Jill approach Wobbles because she's angry and means what she says, or is she getting him to lead Harmonica to Frank? (The latter option is what I assumed upon first viewing, especially because of their conspiratorial acknowledgement of each other afterward, but only if Jill truly expects to deal with Frank herself does later plot development make sense, as discussed below.)

10. Why does Cheyenne, who has a gang, sneak onto Frank's train by himself, like Harmonica does? Why not just attack it, as they do later?



#6 - On the DVD commentary, Frayling says that tearing the white frills off the dress is both to make her less visible to the men lurking outside and it is more practical for work out on the West; the frills are to look pretty, for a woman wearing a dress in the city. Harmonica is preparing Jill for her job as earth mother to the railroad workers.

#7 (As with many other issues,) I don't know if there is one answer to that. It can be whatever you want it to be. I certainly think it was to bait Frank's men, but consistent with the answer to #6, you can definitely say that he is also preparing her for her new role. So it definitely makes sense to say there was a dual purpose.

#8 - Again, that's a cinematic thing; don't expect people in movies to always act as they would in real life. It's more dramatic to have Harmonica kill Frank's men at the last second ... and then we find out Cheyenne has been lurking there, too, right?
For that matter, you can also ask what Cheyenne was doing there in the first place. Has he already fallen for Jill and want to stand guard to protect her from Frank's men, whom he knows will be back to get her? Or has Cheyenne simply decided to watch for Frank's men because he wants to take revenge on Frank for setting up the evidence to implicate Cheyenne? Or is it because he thinks Harmonica may be there and he wants to find out who the hell this Harmonica guy is? Or all three?  ;)

#9 - Jill and Harmonica are definitely conspiring to get Frank. You see Harmonica following Wobbles after Jill speaks with him. It's possible that Jill also would indeed like to talk to Frank directly, but at least the main purpose of Jill's conversation with Wobbles is that she knows Wobbles will thne go speak to Frank, and Harmonica can follow him.

#10 - Perhaps at this point, Cheyenne is just trying to eavesdrop, to find out what is going on, why Frank set him up, etc. He's not necessarily interested in a major shootout of his gang vs. Frank's. And again, the movie works better this way, of Cheyenne alone here, saving the shootout for later in the movie  :)


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: Cusser on December 04, 2016, 07:37:41 AM
12. Why is there an old railroad track buried at Sweetwater (as discovered by Cheyenne)?

I think he finds a marking stake, put down by McBain.


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: cigar joe on December 04, 2016, 06:36:20 PM
Quote
12. Why is there an old railroad track buried at Sweetwater (as discovered by Cheyenne)?

McBain was a railroad man, (that's how he knew the trains would need water and why he picked Sweetwater for his "ranch") the route was laid out way in advance of actual construction why not get a wagon and haul a few rails and ties out and lay them in place so the station can be built around the tracks, remember he already ordered the wood, sign, etc, etc for the station, when the construction arrives they just have to connect it to what he's got laid out.


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: Dust Devil on December 06, 2016, 12:45:16 PM
McBain was a railroad man, (that's how he knew the trains would need water and why he picked Sweetwater for his "ranch") the route was laid out way in advance of actual construction why not get a wagon and haul a few rails and ties out and lay them in place so the station can be built around the tracks, remember he already ordered the wood, sign, etc, etc for the station, when the construction arrives they just have to connect it to what he's got laid out.

Yep. O0


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: drinkanddestroy on January 09, 2017, 09:42:49 PM
The release date on all the websites now is September 26, 2017.

I'll do the pre-order with price guarantee. It can't hurt.


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: Cusser on January 10, 2017, 06:39:40 AM
McBain was a railroad man, (that's how he knew the trains would need water and why he picked Sweetwater for his "ranch") the route was laid out way in advance of actual construction why not get a wagon and haul a few rails and ties out and lay them in place so the station can be built around the tracks, remember he already ordered the wood, sign, etc, etc for the station, when the construction arrives they just have to connect it to what he's got laid out.

Surely some folks would've have noticed that McBain's supplies included some train track rails, and then there would have been no mystery what McBain was up to out there...


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: cigar joe on January 10, 2017, 03:40:48 PM
Surely some folks would've have noticed that McBain's supplies included some train track rails, and then there would have been no mystery what McBain was up to out there...

What you have to remember is that the route would have been laid out five or more years in advance.  McBain knowing of this had plenty of time purchase the Sweetwater location and to get the supplies and haul them out there well before the boomtown of Flagstone was even on the map. Rails were available at bigger towns especially in mining district areas at hardware stores for miners.

The railroad and it's route engineers knew what was going on since they gave him the contract for the station. The clueless locals probably had no idea what was going on, hence thinking he was crazy.


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: dave jenkins on January 10, 2017, 04:42:18 PM
The release date on all the websites now is September 26, 2017.
Thanks, I'll cancel my UK order and get it in the US. That means I'll have it in hand all the quicker.

Hey, Drink, did you notice this?
https://www.amazon.com/ALLHA-Womens-Low-Waist-Thongs-Panties-r-nBriefs/dp/B01ER4K95U/ref=sr_1_cc_2?

A woman can wear these and have three--er, four--men on her ass. Charming thought, no?


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: drinkanddestroy on January 10, 2017, 05:36:13 PM
Thanks, I'll cancel my UK order and get it in the US. That means I'll have it in hand all the quicker.

Hey, Drink, did you notice this?
https://www.amazon.com/ALLHA-Womens-Low-Waist-Thongs-Panties-r-nBriefs/dp/B01ER4K95U/ref=sr_1_cc_2?

A woman can wear these and have three--er, four--men on her ass. Charming thought, no?

Haha! But they are grandma undies! And If my chick wears this, it means I am having a fivesome. In bed with With Al Mulloch :-[



Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: drinkanddestroy on March 30, 2017, 01:17:19 AM
The price on Amazon.com is now $46.39, plus the pre-sale price guarantee

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1909526339/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: dave jenkins on March 30, 2017, 09:46:21 AM
The price on Amazon.com is now $46.39, plus the pre-sale price guarantee

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1909526339/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
With the price so low, you should order one for a friend.  ;)


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: mike siegel on March 30, 2017, 03:10:06 PM
You bet. Three.


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: Le Bon on June 23, 2017, 12:15:46 PM
Release date is now May 2018  :(


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: drinkanddestroy on June 23, 2017, 04:48:36 PM
Release date is now May 2018  :(

As Herry Grail noted on page 1 of this thread, where he shared various links where one can pre-order the book http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=12605.msg183802#msg183802 , you can't even search for the book on Amazon - nothing comes up. It only works if  you have the link.
It says the book is not available - you can't even pre-order it now. (I already did, a while ago.)

And the OUATITW grandma undies are no longer available https://www.amazon.com/ALLHA-Womens-Low-Waist-Thongs-Panties-r-nBriefs/dp/B01ER4K95U/ref=sr_1_cc_2?


Title: Re: "OUATITW: Shot by Shot" by Frayling?
Post by: dave jenkins on June 24, 2017, 07:32:55 AM
And the OUATITW grandma undies are no longer available https://www.amazon.com/ALLHA-Womens-Low-Waist-Thongs-Panties-r-nBriefs/dp/B01ER4K95U/ref=sr_1_cc_2?
There goes your love life, what?