Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => The Good, The Bad and The Ugly => Topic started by: Big Boss 1971 on December 24, 2016, 05:18:37 PM



Title: 50
Post by: Big Boss 1971 on December 24, 2016, 05:18:37 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keIbNcYCYNA

Happy 50th anniversary this x-mas  O0


Title: Re: 50
Post by: Dust Devil on December 26, 2016, 03:43:48 AM
 8)


Title: Re: 50
Post by: cigar joe on December 26, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
 8)


Title: Re: 50
Post by: titoli on December 30, 2016, 10:09:50 AM
This is the GBU thread, not Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo one, where the birthday wishes belong.  >:( Of course Dumb Jinx floats away from here, doesn't he?


Title: Re: 50
Post by: dave jenkins on December 30, 2016, 12:50:27 PM
I hate to keep harping on the same issues all the time. I don't want to come off as a scold. But titoli is right: Eastwood and company didn't even loop their English dialog until the fall of '67. GBU proper didn't hit US theaters until 1968.


Title: Re: 50
Post by: cigar joe on December 30, 2016, 02:17:27 PM
 8)


Title: Re: 50
Post by: titoli on December 30, 2016, 03:00:53 PM
I hate to keep harping on the same issues all the time.
There are newbies all the time who are not aware of your "theories".


Title: Re: 50
Post by: Cusser on December 31, 2016, 07:17:49 AM
I hate to keep harping on the same issues all the time. I don't want to come off as a scold. But titoli is right: Eastwood and company didn't even loop their English dialog until the fall of '67. GBU proper didn't hit US theaters until 1968.

June 1968 for me in Arizona.  Never saw a trailer or TV commercial for it.  We heard Montenegro version on radio, and knew Eastwood from Rawhide.  We didn't know Eli Wallach was in it, knew him from Magnificent Seven.  When GBU titles started, not only was that real different, but my brothers and my friend and I couldn't figure out why almost all the names were Italian.  I was 15, but into film music from films such as Magnificent Seven and Time Machine, so was blown away like 2.25 hours later with Ecstasy of Gold through the end.

Fistful and FDM didn't hit Arizona until months or year later, as a double feature.


Title: Re: 50
Post by: drinkanddestroy on December 31, 2016, 04:06:04 PM
June 1968 for me in Arizona.  Never saw a trailer or TV commercial for it.  We heard Montenegro version on radio, and knew Eastwood from Rawhide.  We didn't know Eli Wallach was in it, knew him from Magnificent Seven.  When GBU titles started, not only was that real different, but my brothers and my friend and I couldn't figure out why almost all the names were Italian.  I was 15, but into film music from films such as Magnificent Seven and Time Machine, so was blown away like 2.25 hours later with Ecstasy of Gold through the end.

Fistful and FDM didn't hit Arizona until months or year later, as a double feature.

 O0 O0 O0


Title: Re: 50
Post by: titoli on December 31, 2016, 06:35:15 PM

Fistful and FDM didn't hit Arizona until months or year later, as a double feature.

Could it be you missed a first run?


Title: Re: 50
Post by: Dust Devil on January 01, 2017, 02:32:12 AM
There are newbies all the time who are not aware of your "theories".

Hehehe, to remind them at least at the start of each new year! O0


Title: Re: 50
Post by: Cusser on January 01, 2017, 08:37:36 AM
Could it be you missed a first run?

That's possible, but not real likely.  My dad was a big fan of westerns, and we did get a daily newspaper and we all read that.  But it is possible.


Title: Re: 50
Post by: titoli on January 01, 2017, 11:07:45 AM
Hehehe, to remind them at least at the start of each new year! O0

Yeah, for example a teutsche friend here recently shewed he wasn't aware.


Title: Re: 50
Post by: Lil Brutto on January 03, 2017, 01:15:19 AM
I have it stuck in my head that GBU premiered in December 1967. IMDB reports a US release date of Friday, December 29, 1967. I know that IMDB info can be erroneous but Roger Ebert's initial review came to mind and that was published on January 2, 1968. I'm sure there are more reviews from the late 60's that should be able to verify this. One of which is New York Times reviewer Renata Adler's scathing review that was published in January 1968. So a late 67/early 68 release seems about right.


Title: Re: 50
Post by: stanton on January 03, 2017, 02:58:25 AM
I assume most reviews very pretty negative?

In Germany Leone's films, and the Spagies in principle, were viewed as cinematic trash. With OUTW the point of view began to change slightly, but it was Corbucci in 1969 who got some recognition with his political westerns and his bold breaking up of conventions.


Title: Re: 50
Post by: Cusser on January 03, 2017, 07:16:11 AM
June 1968 for me in Arizona.  Never saw a trailer or TV commercial for it.  We heard Montenegro version on radio, and knew Eastwood from Rawhide.  We didn't know Eli Wallach was in it, knew him from Magnificent Seven.  When GBU titles started, not only was that real different, but my brothers and my friend and I couldn't figure out why almost all the names were Italian.  I was 15, but into film music from films such as Magnificent Seven and Time Machine, so was blown away like 2.25 hours later with Ecstasy of Gold through the end.

Fistful and FDM didn't hit Arizona until months or year later, as a double feature.

The GBU print I saw then already had at least one splice in it.  Specifically the few seconds where the gunshots were when Blondie "rescues" Tuco from the three bounty killers.  Of course, I thought it was just the best editing and scene I ever saw, with Blondie getting ready to draw his pistol, then just his pistol out, waa-waa-waa, and the three dead on the ground.  Only upon seeing a re-release a couple of years later, did we figure out we saw a spliced print initially.  But it - maybe by happenstance - was really good; maybe someone can try to make a short YouTube experimenting to match same...


Title: Re: 50
Post by: Novecento on January 03, 2017, 08:19:14 AM
In Germany Leone's films, and the Spagies in principle, were viewed as cinematic trash. With OUTW the point of view began to change slightly, but it was Corbucci in 1969 who got some recognition with his political westerns and his bold breaking up of conventions.

That's interesting that it was Corbucci rather than Leone who caused the change in tides.

The GBU print I saw then already had at least one splice in it.  Specifically the few seconds where the gunshots were when Blondie "rescues" Tuco from the three bounty killers.  Of course, I thought it was just the best editing and scene I ever saw, with Blondie getting ready to draw his pistol, then just his pistol out, waa-waa-waa, and the three dead on the ground.  Only upon seeing a re-release a couple of years later, did we figure out we saw a spliced print initially.  But it - maybe by happenstance - was really good; maybe someone can try to make a short YouTube experimenting to match same...

I'd be very interested to see that.


Title: Re: 50
Post by: drinkanddestroy on January 03, 2017, 09:04:48 AM
I assume most reviews very pretty negative?

In Germany Leone's films, and the Spagies in principle, were viewed as cinematic trash. With OUTW the point of view began to change slightly, but it was Corbucci in 1969 who got some recognition with his political westerns and his bold breaking up of conventions.

Even Ebert only gave the film 3 out of 4 stars; later he said that it was a mistake - that perhaps he was influenced by the fact that spags were considered trash - and he said that it is a great movie. I believe his review is included in the booklet on the MGM Special Edition disc set.


Title: Re: 50
Post by: dave jenkins on January 03, 2017, 12:54:41 PM
Even Ebert only gave the film 3 out of 4 stars; later he said that it was a mistake - that perhaps he was influenced by the fact that spags were considered trash - and he said that it is a great movie. I believe his review is included in the booklet on the MGM Special Edition disc set.
One of Ebert's tricks was to see what other people thought of a movie and then adopt that view as his own. GBU meant nothing to him when it came out--but later, after a lot of other people had weighed in, he touted Leone's genius. Ebert used to have special showings of movies where audience members could stop the film at any time to make comments. The people who participated probably were very flattered that a famous "critic" was listening to their ideas. In fact, Ebert was simply getting ideas and observations from others without having to pay for them. A good writer, though--as most frauds are.


Title: Re: 50
Post by: Jordan Krug on January 03, 2017, 05:34:10 PM
The GBU print I saw then already had at least one splice in it.  Specifically the few seconds where the gunshots were when Blondie "rescues" Tuco from the three bounty killers.  Of course, I thought it was just the best editing and scene I ever saw, with Blondie getting ready to draw his pistol, then just his pistol out, waa-waa-waa, and the three dead on the ground.  Only upon seeing a re-release a couple of years later, did we figure out we saw a spliced print initially.  But it - maybe by happenstance - was really good; maybe someone can try to make a short YouTube experimenting to match same...

That's right at the reel change, the kills are at the very end of reel 1. This often happens to the end of reels, they take the most abuse. Even the 98 DVD is missing a holstering shot in that exact section even though it was originally a part of the u.s cut.


Title: Re: 50
Post by: Lil Brutto on January 03, 2017, 06:07:18 PM
That's right at the reel change, the kills are at the very end of reel 1. This often happens to the end of reels, they take the most abuse. Even the 98 DVD is missing a holstering shot in that exact section even though it was originally a part of the u.s cut.

This man has your answer.


Title: Re: 50
Post by: drinkanddestroy on January 03, 2017, 06:21:48 PM
One of Ebert's tricks was to see what other people thought of a movie and then adopt that view as his own. GBU meant nothing to him when it came out--but later, after a lot of other people had weighed in, he touted Leone's genius. Ebert used to have special showings of movies where audience members could stop the film at any time to make comments. The people who participated probably were very flattered that a famous "critic" was listening to their ideas. In fact, Ebert was simply getting ideas and observations from others without having to pay for them. A good writer, though--as most frauds are.

 :D :D ;D Every once in a while, when I want a cranky comment out of DJ, I mention Ebert.

I believe that those "shot at a time" viewing sessions - in which it would take several days to watch a single film - were for classic movies that had been released decades earlier, not for new releases.

Ebert became a better writer as the years went on. His later stuff was longer and better than his earlier stuff. And I think he was much more generous with his ratings in his later years.


Title: Re: 50
Post by: dave jenkins on January 03, 2017, 08:15:12 PM
I believe that those "shot at a time" viewing sessions - in which it would take several days to watch a single film - were for classic movies that had been released decades earlier, not for new releases.
Yeah, Ebert was writing his The Great Movies series and needed input. Occasionally he would credit a source--not usually, though.


Title: Re: 50
Post by: drinkanddestroy on January 03, 2017, 08:28:25 PM
Yeah, Ebert was writing his The Great Movies series and needed input. Occasionally he would credit a source--not usually, though.

You often tell me a out one point that you think Ebert took from Frayling on GBU. I never heard a second example.


Title: Re: 50
Post by: Cusser on January 04, 2017, 09:02:36 AM
One of Ebert's tricks was to see what other people thought of a movie and then adopt that view as his own. GBU meant nothing to him when it came out--but later, after a lot of other people had weighed in, he touted Leone's genius.

In 1974, I asked my film class professor his thoughts on Leone's films.  He said they were worthless pieces of trash, but admitted he'd never seen one.


Title: Re: 50
Post by: Big Boss 1971 on January 11, 2017, 10:52:40 PM
I hate to keep harping on the same issues all the time. I don't want to come off as a scold. But titoli is right: Eastwood and company didn't even loop their English dialog until the fall of '67. GBU proper didn't hit US theaters until 1968.

I was referring to the world Italian premiere , which was indeed x-mas '66.

Just like October '71 was world premiere Bruce Lee's Big Boss (then SE Asia in '72 & rest of the world in '73)


Title: Re: 50
Post by: dave jenkins on January 12, 2017, 12:46:52 PM
I was referring to the world Italian premiere , which was indeed x-mas '66.
Yes, but that was the premier of the Italian language film. It's my contention that GBU is a different movie, largely because the vocal talents of Eastwood, Wallach, and LVC go a long way to making it the distinctive film that it is. Have you ever heard the Italian track? Blondie is given the voice of a Roman gigolo!


Title: Re: 50
Post by: titoli on January 12, 2017, 03:32:11 PM
Yes, but that was the premier of the Italian language film. It's my contention that GBU is a different movie, largely because the vocal talents of Eastwood, Wallach, and LVC go a long way to making it the distinctive film that it is. Have you ever heard the Italian track? Blondie is given the voice of a Roman gigolo!

My contention is that you're a jingoistic trumpean buffoon. You don't understand italian (but your english  is debatable too) and still got the nerve to argue about the version on which the filmmaker  had absolute control and which was first thought up with the visual part. "italian gigoḷ"? Whatever you may think of the dubbed voices they were picked up personally by Leone: and that's the law. And though I admit that Eastwood here is finally delivering good lines (which he wasn't able to do in the previous movies), there's just no comparison between Romano's voice and Wallach's. And that alone makes all the difference, as Tuco's lines are the most important of the flick.


Title: Re: 50
Post by: Lil Brutto on January 12, 2017, 08:46:34 PM
What's wrong with Wallach's voice?


Title: Re: 50
Post by: titoli on January 13, 2017, 12:34:31 AM
What's wrong with Wallach's voice?

Nothing. Only that the italian voice is much better.


Title: Re: 50
Post by: noodles_leone on January 13, 2017, 02:19:14 AM
I have absolutely no idea about the Italian version, but I can tell you for sure that the French version is much, much, much, much, much better than the English version, no matter how cool the later is.

OFF TOPIC:

Weirdly, this happens to be true with many pre-1980 films with English speaking actors. A couple of examples:

- most Hitchcock movies
- The Graduate (Hoffman is voiced by the great Patrick Dewaere)
- OUATITW

While the french dubbing industry drastically changed (for the infinitely worse) in the 80's, a few action and adventure flicks throughout the 80's and even way into the 90's still have a french version that is superior to the original one:

- The Princess Bride
- Indiana Jones 1 2 3
- Back to the Future 1 2 3
- Die Hard 1 2 3 (most performances are better in English but Bruce Willis' french voice absolutely steals the show)
- True Lies



Title: Re: 50
Post by: Cusser on January 13, 2017, 06:25:31 AM
I think Wallach did an excellent job.  In an American film, likely would've been Award winning.


Title: Re: 50
Post by: dave jenkins on January 13, 2017, 06:37:56 AM
there's just no comparison between Romano's voice and Wallach's. And that alone makes all the difference, as Tuco's lines are the most important of the flick.
"no comparison," eh? Thank you for undergirding my point. BBC and GBU are two different films. QED.


Title: Re: 50
Post by: titoli on January 13, 2017, 10:15:57 AM
"no comparison," eh? Thank you for undergirding my point. BBC and GBU are two different films. QED.

But the point is that the original is BBC, the rest is derivative and should be evaluated ONLY in comparison with it. (BTW your point about Eastwood's voice is simply ridiculous, as Eastwood, after his first two movies, finally managed to model his voice on Salerno's delivery - that is confirmed also in a Eastwood's bio). You take the dubbing excuse to try to prove that GBU is the real thing. It isn't: verstanden?