Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => The Good, The Bad and The Ugly => Topic started by: grandpa_chum on September 11, 2004, 09:46:26 AM

Title: Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: grandpa_chum on September 11, 2004, 09:46:26 AM
I was wondering what scenes they restored? I have the old regular dvd... can anyone tell me which "deleted Scenes" from this dvd were restored into the new special edition... specifically want to know if the angel eyes arriving at the nearly deserted confederate fort scene and the setenza's gang 3 is the perfect number scene were restored... or even on the dvd at all... i'm disapointed they decided to redubbed only certain scenes, would have loved them to just stick all of em in there with subtitles.
Title: Re:Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: El Bon on September 11, 2004, 02:26:45 PM
All the deleted scenes on the regular DVD have been put back in the movie on the Special Edition plus the Grotto scene.
Title: Re:Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: grandpa_chum on September 11, 2004, 03:40:38 PM
Great! thanks for clearing that up for me.
Title: Re: Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: dave jenkins on May 15, 2005, 08:47:56 PM
I'm reviving this thread to take up a matter that hasn't been discussed yet. It seems that some people welcome the inclusion of the restored material, while others would prefer to leave a classic the way it was. I can see arguments for both views. But this is kind of an all-or-nothing approach, and it seems to me that it is also possible to want to restore *some* of the missing footage without necessarily putting all of it back in.  Which of the restored footage, then, is essential, and which is less important?

I'll go first. I think the Grotto scene is unnecessary (although enjoyable). It adds some info helpful to the plot, but wasn't strictly needed, since we could all figure out that Tuco picked these guys up from somewhere and whether he knew them before or not isn't all that important.

The scene of Angel Eyes at the Confederate fort, however, seems to add a lot to the picture. We get not only plot info (why it is that AE later shows up at the Yankee fort), but several themes are touched on that will recur throughout the movie (and by "themes" I'm including one that's musical). We get another look at the results of the war, we see another dog, etc. We also get some more great camera work.

So, I'd say if I had to choose between 'em, I'd take the fort scene over the grotto scene.
Title: Re: Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: titoli on May 16, 2005, 04:27:04 AM
Could anybody please tell me what this "grotto" scene is?
Title: Re: Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: Cusser on May 16, 2005, 07:07:51 AM
The grotto scene is where Tuco meets up with his three old accomplices, and gets them to join him to ambush Blondie; where he states "if you need to work for a living, why kill yourself working?".  I could o without that scene, as all us moviewatchers KNOW that bad guys can always pick up fellow bandits somewhwere.  I'd definitely leave in the scenes with Angel Eyes at the fort, as well as the scenes just before and just after Mission San Antonio (the latter especially adds a lot, shows lots of young dead soldiers), and the restored scene in the desert with the boot.  I also would've cut out the end of the restored scene after Blondie kills one of Angel Eyes' approaching men: I never did really "get" three or six being a perfect number....
Title: Re: Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: General Sibley on May 16, 2005, 07:46:28 AM
The scene of Angel Eyes at the Confederate fort, however, seems to add a lot to the picture. We get not only plot info (why it is that AE later shows up at the Yankee fort), but several themes are touched on that will recur throughout the movie (and by "themes" I'm including one that's musical). We get another look at the results of the war, we see another dog, etc. We also get some more great camera work.

I think AngelEyes at the fort is great film, BUT I can see why they cut it.  This scene makes AE sympathetic, you see a human side to him.  Every other scene he's this unholy avenger from hell, like a Terminator - I prefer him being one-dimensional, unadulterated, unconscionable badass.   AngelEyes is one the all-time great movie villains, any genre.  "I'll ask the questions!" 8)

Title: Re: Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: redyred on May 16, 2005, 09:06:19 AM
I actually liked the Angeleyes field hospital scene because it showed a more humane side to his character. Just like Blondie isn't perfectly good, his opposite number isn't 100% bad either. Another good thing about this scene is it keeps Angeleyes' story going. On the old version I always thought the hour long gap between Angeleyes interrogating Bill Carson's girlfriend and his reappearance at Betterville was a stupidly long time for a main character to be absent from the film.

I do think they should have put the extended Tuco torture scene in (it's amongst the extras on disc 2), even if it is very scratchy. That's always been one of my favourite scenes in the whole film, and the extended version improves on it further.

But what really gets me is not what they did or didn't put in - it's the quality of the new dubbing. With all the money they put in, they could have A) modified Clint Eastwood's and Eli Wallach's voices so they sounded younger and B) done a better job at mixing. The old Italian studios were clearly experts on dubbing - the voices blend in perfectly. The new dubbing just sits on top of the mix and sounds totally fake.
Title: Re: Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: DJIMBO on May 16, 2005, 09:33:19 AM
i agree with general sibley, doesnt really make him The Bad if Leone includes that scene, it is a great scene tho, esp when the camera pans around him.
Title: Re: Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: Poggle on May 16, 2005, 04:15:49 PM
I loved the deleted scenes and I've learned to tolerate the bad dubbing.

The Confederate camp scene is my favorite, because I can't watch the movie without it now 8) I think I know why Leone took it out for two reasons - Mentioning the desert and the camp.

It pretty much tells you what to expect and doesn't seem as much like a "Seat of your pants" kind of adventure, but because I'm already familiar with the film then I don't see what's wrong with it at all, I love it.

I've always liked Angel Eyes' journey before he met up with the boys and this just makes it better. I think it would be fun to do one of those "Chapter program" things on the DVD player to just play all of the scenes with Lee Van Cleef(Including the ones w/the others) just to see how his story holds up alone, because we're really watching two different movies with two different plots before it all comes together in the desert.
Title: Re: Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: Mr.Cho-Cho on May 16, 2005, 04:50:26 PM
I must agree, I think the confederate camp deleted scene is definetly the best addition, it so beautifully directed. Whereas some of the other deleted scenes i don't care for as much, as i don't feel they add that much to the film. Though being an avid fan of the film I had to see them, and glad i own them. Although i've only seen the SE version once and that was a few months ago so my opinion may change.
Title: Re: Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: dave jenkins on May 20, 2005, 04:18:05 PM
Yup, that Confederate fort scene is a keeper. None of the other restored footage seems anywhere near as important. Does that scene actually change the film, though? Some people seem to think so.....
Title: Re: Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: Poggle on May 20, 2005, 05:13:41 PM
It shows how he gets closer to Carson's whereabouts and why he's at the Union camp.
Title: Re: Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: dave jenkins on May 20, 2005, 10:33:42 PM
Right, it fills in plot points. But does it alter our perception of Angel Eyes, or the themes of the movie? Does having the cynical Dixie sargeant talk about the war spoil the later comments made by the Union Captain, or does it provide balance? Is the dog in the scene a Mutt Too Far, or does it rhyme nicely with the dog at Sad Hill? What about the playing of the mournful Soldier's Theme? In the shortened version, we didn't hear it until we arrived at Betterville, but with the inclusion of the Confederate fort scene we now get this cue much earlier. Do these repetitions deepen our enjoyment and understanding of the film, or do they make the film tedious? Is the film better with or without the Confederate fort scene?

And are all the other restored scenes, while interesting, inessential?
Title: Re: Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: Unkernown on May 21, 2005, 01:13:46 PM
I've often wondered how close the gunshop scene came to being cut.  Its only plot function is to tell us where Tuco got his gun from.  Has it ever been cut from any versions or TV broadcasts?
Title: Re: Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: Poggle on May 21, 2005, 02:04:16 PM
Jenkins - I think that really depends on if you're familiar with the movie or haven't seen it yet.
Title: Re: Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: Cusser on May 22, 2005, 05:24:44 AM
To Unkernown: When ABC network televised GBU, it cut out the part of the gunshop targets being Indians visible for the first three gunshots, when the bullets spun the targets around.  ABC showed the targets only in profile and Tuco's last three shots, trying to be politically correct about Indians as targets or "foe", but that would have been day-to-day in the 1860s in the West.. 
Title: Re: Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: Le Bon on May 22, 2005, 03:28:18 PM
I've often wondered how close the gunshop scene came to being cut.† Its only plot function is to tell us where Tuco got his gun from.† Has it ever been cut from any versions or TV broadcasts?

Yes this scene was cut from the original British cinema release, 148mins, along with three more. Maria being thrown off the wagon and walking along the corridor. The Betterville commandant looking out of his window and then talking with Angel Eyes after the roll call and when Tuco and Wallace arrive at the station the photgraph scene was cut. All these scenes were put back in when it was shown on British TV which is the same  as the U.S. cinema release 161mins.
Title: Re: Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: Unkernown on May 23, 2005, 12:22:59 PM
I see. Cheers
Title: Re: Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: jerkface on June 10, 2005, 01:16:36 PM
I think GBU works a hell of a lot better without all of the restored scenes. Granted, some of those restored scenes are beautiful. Particularly the one with Angel Eyes and the wounded soldiers. Still though, I think it was necessary that they trim some of the fat. The original cut is like a well-oiled machine.
Title: Re: Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: dave jenkins on June 10, 2005, 09:19:21 PM
Yeah, but if the Confederate fort scene had always been in it, the picture would still have that well-oiled machine quality. I'll bet Italian audiences never thought it was superfulous, or that it could be deleted without harming the film.
Title: Re: Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: Egdor on June 11, 2005, 06:59:51 PM
The scene with Angel Eyes at the Confederate fort is, I think, a necessary key moment in the film. Angel Eyes was always intended to be a malicious killer, but it would be ridiculous to portray him as a man incapable of human feelings. Lee Van Cleef is a very underrated actor; the way he just slightly shakes his head to reveal that he recognizes the pointlessness of the situation is very moving. Even a ruthless bastard like him, whose only interest in life is to get his hands on some sacks of stolen gold, is a human being at heart. The scene is the best  dubbed and has the best direction out of the added scenes.

The other scenes arenít as crucial, but some of them really ought to be left in, I think (such as Blondieís sunbath and the short sequences before and after San Antonio).

The Grotto scene is one Iíve never been able to enjoy, though. The way Tucoís friends just happen to show up out of nowhere precisely at the moment heís talking about them is just . . . silly. And the dubbing is terrible as well.

The Perfect Number Saga I enjoy, though honestly Iíve never got the point.
Title: Re: Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: cigar joe on June 12, 2005, 04:36:00 AM
In the grotto I think Tuco knows they are there and he's taunting them, reather than they just show up coincendentily.

The perfect number to kill them all with one revolver after he kills the seventh, is what he's getting at.
Title: Re: Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: Leone Admirer on June 12, 2005, 09:02:58 AM
I was fascinated by these scenes, and still am. It's wonderful to have them. Yes the dubbing is a little off, but I can look over that. The only thing that bugs me, is I wish included on at least one Region is the US Theatrical (the version we usually see) restored etc and included in the package. I am happy that I have both the R1 re-mastered SE and the R2 standard (non -SE). If I remember correctly most of the scenes re-instated (I believe the grotto scene is a bit of a grey area) were removed from prints without Leone's permission. Therefore, as I said before, it is very good to have these scenes available to us.
Title: Re: Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: Egdor on June 12, 2005, 12:02:53 PM
The perfect number to kill them all with one revolver after he kills the seventh, is what he's getting at.

Yes, I got that, but itís not really funny. What makes three a perfect number? I always laugh out loud, though, just at seeing the amused expression Angel Eyes gives him. The scene is worth keeping because of that and the intimidating bird noises in the background.
Title: Re: Special Edition Restored Scenes
Post by: Blueberry on July 08, 2005, 01:01:56 AM
The grotto scene sucks! I mean, it's SO plainly miserable, it's awful, it stinks. Shoulda been extra material. Eli's overdoing his grunting and little guttural sounds, just like in the extended desert scene. And the sound is disgusting, as is the close-ups of his 3 companions, each, looking and sounding more stupid than the other - especially the last laugh from the 3rd guy - it sounds totally artificial and he's got the facial expression of a sheep.

Now, as I watch GBU with my friends, I feel embarrased as this scene comes along - its standard is way below the rest of the film, and drags down the overall impression, whereas Angel Eyes at Confederate Camp is on level. I wish there was some way one could make a version with all the SE-features, except the grotto scene.

There probably is, but I don't have the software or the DVD-burner...