Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Other Films => Topic started by: Lewis Hawk on September 15, 2004, 02:29:31 PM



Title: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Lewis Hawk on September 15, 2004, 02:29:31 PM
anybody seen clint's "josey wales" ???
i just have seen it today and i've some sorrows!
good shots, nice pictures, wonderful costum but no rythm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and too many dialogs!!
what do you think about it???


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: cigar joe on September 15, 2004, 06:41:29 PM
Its the type of post SW western that is a bastard between American Westerns and the SW's.

Jose Wales, more violent but also more melodrama, no memorable score that I can remember. Its good Clint Eastwood western better than some of his others.

Definitely not Leone.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: grandpa_chum on September 15, 2004, 09:11:59 PM
agree with everything said but it's still a damn good movie... has the only indian character i've ever liked in a western.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: cigar joe on September 16, 2004, 04:12:04 PM
Quote
agree with everything said but it's still a damn good movie... has the only indian character i've ever liked in a western.


You know grandpa_chum, I read the book before I saw the movie, and the book read almost like it was two different authors.

In the book Lone Watte was a savy companion to Jose Wales while he was on the run. I vividly remember a great little section where while they were being chased  by a posse or troops, Lone showed Jose how to drop his horse to the ground quickly so they wouldn't be seen by grabbing the horse by the nostrils and flipping him down. It was a cool bit of writting.

Then as soon as the Sondra Locke character shows up it was a completely different book.

Check it out sometime in you can and you'll see what I mean.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Walter on September 21, 2004, 07:44:21 AM


The movie is not without flaws, but I have always liked it and just recently revisited on SE dvd. Some lines are true classics, like my signature. I really like the way Josey just leaves when Lone starts up about the cheating white men. Two points comes across, both the injustice against indians and the fact that Josey Wales doesn't care. And the tobacco spitting is fascinatingly gross, but a cool statement of arrogance.

Sondra Locke doesn't even ruin the movie, as she ruined so many others. I think the end, where Josey Wales suddenly and reluctantly has gotten a family, is great. It shows that even with all his anger and vengefulness, he is - at heart - a family man and is really not cut out to be a loner.

There's hope in this picture, hope for everybody, even for a hardended guerilla fighter and gunfighter like Josey wales.  


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Nobody on September 21, 2004, 08:34:46 AM
It would have been the best non-Leone Eastwood western had it not been for Unforgiven. And perhaps High Plains Drifter.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: General Sibley on September 21, 2004, 12:52:44 PM
The movie is not without flaws, but I have always liked it and just recently revisited on SE dvd. Some lines are true classics, like my signature.

I'm with you Walter.  If anyone on this board hasn't seen it you have to rent it immediately.  Some great oneliners in this movie, one of my favorites is when John Vernon (aka "Dean Wormer" of Animal House) objects to a massacre and bleats, "But you said they'd be decently treated!"  And get's the colonel's stern reply, "They were decently fed....and they were decently shot!"

And of course the immortal, "Ten Bears likes his women fresh"


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Walter on September 21, 2004, 03:51:04 PM
Forgot to mention that the new dvd is one of the truly great clean-up jobs. The picture looks like it is brand new, and the remixed 5.1 surround sound is amazingly well done.

Cool extras, too, Eastwood himself has contributed a lot. Even a small, but funny piece on chewing tobacco.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: General Sibley on September 22, 2004, 07:19:50 AM
Looked up this movie on imdb and saw that a "Philip Kaufman" is the screenwriter.  Chicago boy, also wrote Raiders of the Lost Ark amongst a few other notable films.  Very talented, I think he's doin' alright for himself.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Nobody on September 22, 2004, 07:41:57 AM
Philip Kaufman was supposed to direct it as well, but got fired a few days after shooting had started. Clint took over.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: titoli on September 11, 2005, 06:43:22 PM
I know somebody will cringe at my statement, but the only thing I liked of the movie, reseen today, is Sondra Locke (only when not talking, though).


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: cigar joe on September 11, 2005, 07:15:38 PM
It went seriously downhill when SL and family showed up IMOP.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: titoli on September 12, 2005, 08:39:03 AM
Probably, even though I felt it started to slide already with the barge episode.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: cigar joe on September 12, 2005, 02:55:51 PM
Its the same with the book, its really great up until SL & family arrive on the scene after that its like somebody else wrote the rest of the story it is that much different.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Groggy on September 12, 2005, 04:17:31 PM
I've only sat through this movie the whole way once, though I've watched bits-'n'-pieces many times.  Clint was a total badass here, but I don't think it was on the level of GBU or "Unforgiven".  John Vernon and Chief Dan George were good, but as others have said, the movie suffered badly from the lack of a strong villain to play off of Clint.  Not that Bill McKinney did a bad job, but he was given a one-dimensional character with little to do.  And the less said about Sondra Locke and Co., the better.  Still, a must-see for Clint and Spaghetti Western fans.  8/10


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Sackett on September 12, 2005, 08:35:40 PM
Yep, one of my favorites.  Read the book, and saw the movie when it came out.  Hollywood said it would be years before other westerns could approach its standard.  They were right.  Few westerns were made immediately after it.
Favorite line  "dyin ain't much of a livin boy"


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: titoli on September 13, 2005, 02:54:35 PM
I think the villain was right, as Groggy remarked. Only the movie prefers to follow Clint's adventures instead of concentrating on the theme of revenge which was the good, though traditional, start of the movie. I think the screenplay lost focus by not keeping to the basic theme, so much so that, in the end, when the 2 are face to face, we have almost forgotten where it's at. 


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Bill Carson on September 14, 2005, 03:35:25 PM
I remember when I was a kid and I was first introduced to GBU by my Mother, I was 'hungry' for more 'Clint the Cowboy' movies - as chance had it, that Summer Holiday, there was a season of Westerns starring the main man on ITV - THE OUTLAW JOSEY WALES, HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER and JOE KIDD were among them and as I recall, the year was 1985; the cinemas were playing an Eastwood movie called PALE RIDER....  8)


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Bill Carson on September 14, 2005, 03:37:04 PM
actually, I gotta get off my backside and get all my 'Non-Leone' Eastwood movies on dvd!  only problem is, other than UNFORGIVEN, none of them have any decent extras.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Tucumcari Bound on July 22, 2007, 11:07:15 AM
Is it just me, or is this western classic an underappreciated film? I think it's filled with great scenes. Also, I think it's some of the best diologue written for any western film ever. You can really see Clint's directing talents early on in his career behind the camera.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: The Peacemaker on July 22, 2007, 11:37:18 AM
This was a fun movie.

Underrated? I don't think so.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Tucumcari Bound on July 22, 2007, 11:51:55 AM
This was a fun movie.

Underrated? I don't think so.

Do you mean it's appreciated already Peacemaker? Or do you mean it doesn't deserve the credit I'm giving it?


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: The Firecracker on July 23, 2007, 06:04:49 AM
Do you mean it's appreciated already Peacemaker? Or do you mean it doesn't deserve the credit I'm giving it?


It's appreciated enough. People give this movie more credit than it deserves.

Starts off very well but by the end of the second act it's slack.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Groggy on July 23, 2007, 07:22:05 AM
I liked it the first time I watched it, but subsequent viewings have reduced it for me. Kind of like "Unforgiven", come to think of it. . .  :P


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Albus Dingleberry on July 23, 2007, 07:27:02 AM
 i've always liked EASTWOODS westerns, especially the one's he directed.
so naturally i would love this one. i don't think it's better than UNFORGIVEN though.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on August 15, 2007, 11:26:23 PM
I really really really really really want to see this film.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Tucumcari Bound on June 19, 2008, 02:18:43 PM

I just watched it yet again. I stand by my opinion that it's one of the greatest westerns ever made. It can be argued that it's Clint Eastwood's greatest performance. I love the ending as well. Great sequence with Clint and John Vernon as Fletcher.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Silenzio on June 20, 2008, 02:06:12 PM
Excellent commercial for this film that never aired:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFfdfYN4lsw&feature=related


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Groggy on June 20, 2008, 04:10:56 PM
I just watched it yet again. I stand by my opinion that it's one of the greatest westerns ever made. It can be argued that it's Clint Eastwood's greatest performance. I love the ending as well. Great sequence with Clint and John Vernon as Fletcher.

I watched about an hour or so of it on the History Channel last weekend. I stand by my opinion. Although it starts out really well it starts to go South pretty soon after Sam Bottoms gets killed. The pacing is ridiculously slow, although Clint's performance and some of the action scenes are really strong.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Tucumcari Bound on June 20, 2008, 09:50:45 PM
Excellent commercial for this film that never aired:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFfdfYN4lsw&feature=related


ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS! ;D


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Silenzio on June 20, 2008, 09:56:23 PM
Yeah, FC showed it to me.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Tucumcari Bound on June 30, 2008, 09:29:44 PM
"I guess we all died a little in that d**n war."

What an ending! One of the greatest in my opinion. I love the goodbye scene between Josie Wales and Fletcher. It's powerful, poingnant, and beautiful. It kind of reminds me of "Shane" and "Once Upon a Time in the West's" goodbye ending scenes.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: dave jenkins on March 30, 2011, 05:20:24 PM
Blu-ray on June 7 will include:
Quote
32-page Blu-ray book with photos and production notes

NEW! Documentary Clint Eastwood’s West, featuring Eastwood, Morgan Freeman, Oliver Stone, and James Mangold

NEW! Commentary by Richard Schickel

Introduction from Clint Eastwood

Hell Hath No Fury: The Making of The Outlaw Josey Wales

Eastwood in Action Vintage Featurette

Trailer


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on April 21, 2011, 10:15:35 AM
just saw the movie on TCM (first time). I give it a 7.5/10

The ending "we all died a little in that damn war" was a really good line.  ("never seen so many men wasted so bad")

at the end, when Josey is bleeding and riding away, I wonder if it is meant to be ambiguous as to whether or not he lived? (I know there is a big argument about the similar ending with "Shane," whether or not he lives at the end, though I never thought he dies).

the reason I don't think Josey dies is cuz you see he rides into the sun, as if a new day is dawning in his life, a new future, etc.... but if it is meant to be clear that he lived, then what is the significance of the blood dripping from him at the end...?

Anyway, enjoyable movie, definitely worth a watch


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Cusser on April 22, 2011, 07:18:49 AM
Yep, Josey is a really good film, and I say Josey lives.  I saw this first time in theater in 1976, girlfriend had to sit on a board where back seat of my VW had been, as all but the driver seat were out getting upholstered.  I watched the first 15 minutes the other day.  TCM is having Civil War type films Mondays this month, maybe will have GBU.  GBU was even listed recently in local newspaper as one of the 10 best Civil War related films.

Unforgiven and Josey are (my opinion) Clint's two best US westerns.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Groggy on April 22, 2011, 09:48:33 AM
TCM doesn't have GBU listed on their website for this month, I'm afraid.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on April 22, 2011, 11:22:14 AM
Yeah, I noticed lots of Civil War films on TCM lately; I really love how TCM often groups films together like that eg. 160th anniversary of Civil War so showing lots of Civil War films now; around a particular actor's birthday they may show a bunch of his films etc...; they recently had a whole Marlon Brando thing so I saw "A Streetcar Named Desire" and "On the Waterfront" for the first time (btw.... Vivien Leigh irritates the hell outta me).

on that note, TCM has been showing lots of films from the great Sidney Lumet lately, cuz he recently passed away. (Just saw 12 Angry Men for the first time last night.... Fonda is awesome as usual. I think his voice/accent/dialogue is probably my second-favorite of all-time; my favorite dialogue actor of all-time is James Mason; IMO his accent is easily the greatest in Hollywood history  :))


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: stanton on April 22, 2011, 12:15:05 PM

Unforgiven and Josey are (my opinion) Clint's two best US westerns.

Without any doubt. And all the others are far behind.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on April 22, 2011, 12:36:01 PM
I only saw "Unforgiven" once, but I did not like it. I never connected with the story.... I liked the Western town set and the Gene Hackman character, but I really did not love the movie. I know I am in the (very small) minority on this one; perhaps I'll watch it again sometime soon and reassess it


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Groggy on April 22, 2011, 01:21:07 PM
Sad to say I haven't been able to take advantage of TCM's Civil War marathon, way too much school work lately. At least they're having Gettysburg on next Monday (providing of course I can stay up for all of it).


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on April 22, 2011, 01:39:14 PM
Sad to say I haven't been able to take advantage of TCM's Civil War marathon, way too much school work lately. At least they're having Gettysburg on next Monday (providing of course I can stay up for all of it).

DVR...?  ;)


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Groggy on April 22, 2011, 02:19:26 PM
Not here I'm afraid.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on April 22, 2011, 02:24:23 PM
I just got it in September.... quite steep at $10/month (from Optimum, in New York)... but the best invention since the steadicam


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Cusser on April 22, 2011, 08:22:16 PM
I don't have DVR - but I do have a DVD recorder.  It works on Cinemax and TCM, seems to shut off on the Encore tier of films, something about digiatl protection.  So films on Encore (including Encore Westerns) tier go onto VHS tapes.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: dave jenkins on June 03, 2011, 12:15:10 PM
Soundin' good: http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film3/blu-ray_reviews54/outlaw_josey_wales_blu-ray.htm


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: T.H. on June 04, 2011, 01:01:34 PM
I agree with FC and groggy on this one - it starts off promising but tries a little too hard to be revisionist, killing the momentum. There are nice moments throughout. I don't know if I'll own this at some point.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Groggy on June 04, 2011, 01:54:13 PM
On that note: Was there a law passed around 1970 mandating Westerns be episodic and virtually plotless?


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: dave jenkins on June 07, 2011, 11:51:21 AM
On that note: Was there a law passed around 1970 mandating Westerns be episodic and virtually plotless?
Not a law. But I think a memo went around.

Anyway, another BD review:
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Outlaw-Josey-Wales-Blu-ray/20372/#Review


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: dave jenkins on June 08, 2011, 06:54:51 AM
The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976) - Film: 7/10; Blu-ray: 10/10. The disc's PQ is amazing. I haven't listened to the Schickel commentary, but the new doc Clint Eastwood's West is fairly comprehensive for a 30-minute piece. The doc, which is in HD, focuses largely on Josey Wales and Unforgiven, and that Frayling guy talks a lot. The digi-pack also has some nice production photos and whatnot.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: Dust Devil on June 08, 2011, 07:07:57 AM
Not a law. But I think a memo went around.

 :D


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: uncknown on November 19, 2012, 01:55:43 PM
I can not believe everyone here doesn't recognize  this as a certified classic!
shame on y'all! >:(


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: cigar joe on November 19, 2012, 03:52:50 PM
I can not believe everyone here doesn't recognize  this as a certified classic!
shame on y'all! >:(
I liked The Outlaw Josey Wales up to the point they meet Locke & family. Even the book its based on switches gears at that point it was as if there were two different authors.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on November 19, 2012, 04:46:28 PM
I liked The Outlaw Josey Wales up to the point they meet Locke & family. Even the book its based on switches gears at that point it was as if there were two different authors.

well I believe the directors switched in middle (a fight over the hideously ugly Sondra Locke, I believe). That have anything to do with it?


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: titoli on January 08, 2017, 02:16:50 AM
well I believe the directors switched in middle (a figt over the hideously ugly Sondra Locke, I believe). That have anything to do with it?

This is the only movie where Sandra Locke looks femalish.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: titoli on January 08, 2017, 02:28:24 AM


You know grandpa_chum, I read the book before I saw the movie, and the book read almost like it was two different authors.

In the book Lone Watte was a savy companion to Jose Wales while he was on the run. I vividly remember a great little section where while they were being chased  by a posse or troops, Lone showed Jose how to drop his horse to the ground quickly so they wouldn't be seen by grabbing the horse by the nostrils and flipping him down. It was a cool bit of writting.

Then as soon as the Sondra Locke character shows up it was a completely different book.

Check it out sometime in you can and you'll see what I mean.

Just read the book. It fares better than the movie, it has more thrilling scenes but it suffers from the defects pointed out by CJ. Anyway, CJ's memory failed him about the dropping horse scene: it is not with Josey and Lone but between Josey and his wounded junior partner Jamie (chapter 5). If I remember well this last character wasn't featured in the movie (I'm not able to find my dvd to check). CJ, have you read The Vengeance Trail of Josey Wales?


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: cigar joe on January 08, 2017, 04:16:07 AM
Just read the book. It fares better than the movie, it has more thrilling scenes but it suffers from the defects pointed out by CJ. Anyway, CJ's memory failed him about the dropping horse scene: it is not with Josey and Lone but between Josey and his wounded junior partner Jamie (chapter 5). If I remember well this last character wasn't featured in the movie (I'm not able to find my dvd to check). CJ, have you read The Vengeance Trail of Josey Wales?

No, I haven't.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: titoli on January 08, 2017, 03:37:44 PM
No, I haven't.

I just did. Courtesy of a discarded copy of the paperback with the two novels by the Seattle Public Library, 8016 Greenwood Ave.
(http://prodimage.images-bn.com/pimages/9780826311689_p0_v1_s192x300.jpg)

Maybe it can't compare with the first part of the first book, but thank God, it does without the melodramatic scenes. So, on the whole, it makes for a good pulp action story. Strangely, Eastwood planned to make it too, but the project aborted. It was revived ten years later by Michael Parks with, according to 2 IMDB reviewers, deplorable results due to a shoestring budget. You can watch it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9ana3qLmiE


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: dave jenkins on January 08, 2017, 05:07:46 PM
the Seattle Public Library, 8016 Greenwood Ave.
Just a few blocks from my late grandmother's house. I feel as though titoli has just walked over her grave.


Title: Re: The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)
Post by: titoli on January 08, 2017, 05:53:08 PM
Just a few blocks from my late grandmother's house. I feel as though titoli has just walked over her grave.
Well, at least I wasn't dancing on it.