Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => The Good, The Bad and The Ugly => Topic started by: mike siegel on March 09, 2017, 09:43:26 AM



Title: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: mike siegel on March 09, 2017, 09:43:26 AM
Announced by Kino Lorber:

Coming this Summer on DVD and Blu-ray!

The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (1967) (50th Anniversary Edition)
Includes both Original U.S. Theatrical Cut, available for the first time in HD and the extended cut.
Disc 1:
• 4K transfer of the Original U.S. Theatrical Cut
• New Audio Commentary by Film Historian Tim Lucas
• “Trailers From Hell” with Ernest Dickerson
• Newly Restored 2.0 Mono Audio
• M.O.S. Deleted Scene of Blondie in the desert finding skeletons
• Trailers for Sergio Leone Westerns
• Italian Dolby Digital 2.0 Mono
• English DTS-HD MA 5.1 Audio
• AND MORE – to be announced

Disc 2:
• 4K transfer of the Extended Cut
• Newly Restored 2.0 Mono Audio
• Audio Commentary By Acclaimed Film Historian Richard Schickel
• Audio Commentary By Noted Cultural Historian Christopher Frayling
• Leone's West: Making Of Documentary
• The Leone Style: On Sergio Leone Featurette
• The Man Who Lost The Civil War: Civil War Documentary
• Reconstruction The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
• II Maestro: Ennio Morricone and The Good, The Bad And The Ugly Featurette
• Deleted Scenes
• Original U.S. Theatrical Trailer
• Original French Theatrical Trailer
• English DTS-HD MA 5.1 Audio
• Italian Dolby Digital 2.0 Mono


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on March 09, 2017, 09:50:06 AM
Hoo-lee-sh*t!!!


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: stanton on March 09, 2017, 01:22:15 PM
Fuck the hen ...


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on March 09, 2017, 02:10:41 PM
Be nice if they'd go back to the original colors, but that's probably too much to hope for.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Lil Brutto on March 09, 2017, 02:44:14 PM
What a pleasant surprise. Curious which source they used for the "skeleton shot' footage.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: stanton on March 09, 2017, 03:08:53 PM
What a pleasant surprise. Curious which source they used for the "skeleton shot' footage.

Not from you?

I'm surprised that MGM gives GBU away. But the 2nd disc seems to be the MGM version, with all the MGM bonus, and with the cave scene.

Now what I really want is a 2 disc Blu from OUTW. Theatrical version and this long Italian version. (and with a Norwegian dub with Greek subs)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: uncknown on March 09, 2017, 03:48:21 PM
Announced by Kino Lorber:

Coming this Summer on DVD and Blu-ray!

The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (1967) (50th Anniversary Edition)

• 4K transfer of the Original U.S. Theatrical Cut
• New Audio Commentary by Film Historian Tim Lucas
• “Trailers From Hell” with Ernest Dickerson
• M.O.S. Deleted Scene of Blondie in the desert finding skeletons
• Trailers for Sergio Leone Westerns
• Italian Dolby Digital 2.0 Mono

Disc 2:
• Italian Dolby Digital 2.0 Mono

these seem to be the only 'new' things on this set and they are nice to have.
Too bad I wasn't asked to do a commentary on the score but what the hell do i know!
bruce marshall


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: cigar joe on March 09, 2017, 04:05:24 PM
Looks nice O0


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on March 09, 2017, 05:08:07 PM
Uh oh.

This is posted over at criterionforum by someone who sounds like he knows what he's talking about:
Quote
Kino is using a cutdown of the Extended Cut master to recreate the U.S. Theatrical cut. I have no idea if they're doing anything to the color timing.
http://criterionforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=576467#p576467h

If true then its likely the U.S. cut will look just like the Extended Cut, only shorter. Same crappy colors.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Lil Brutto on March 09, 2017, 05:14:56 PM
Not from you?

I'm surprised that MGM gives GBU away. But the 2nd disc seems to be the MGM version, with all the MGM bonus, and with the cave scene.

Now what I really want is a 2 disc Blu from OUTW. Theatrical version and this long Italian version. (and with a Norwegian dub with Greek subs)

Not from us. Unless they swiped the 720p video on Jordan Krug's blog without asking. We'll know the answer when this is released.

I heard as early as Dec 2015 that KL had the rights for GBU. I didn't believe it at the time but this proves it.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on March 10, 2017, 01:40:16 PM
Not from us. Unless they swiped the 720p video on Jordan Krug's blog without asking. We'll know the answer when this is released.

I'm assuming you don't have any rights to it per se, just that if they did swipe it from there that they should acknowledge that?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on March 10, 2017, 07:57:50 PM
Uh oh.

This is posted over at criterionforum by someone who sounds like he knows what he's talking about:http://criterionforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=576467#p576467h

If true then its likely the U.S. cut will look just like the Extended Cut, only shorter. Same crappy colors.

So can someone please remind me....

Apart from not having to endure the grotto scene, which if I remember correctly Leone cut himself after the premiere, why would I want to watch the US theatrical cut?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: stanton on March 11, 2017, 02:05:46 AM
So can someone please remind me....

Apart from not having to endure the grotto scene, which if I remember correctly Leone cut himself after the premiere, why would I want to watch the US theatrical cut?

Some think that the 161 min version is the better one, and some don't like the different sounding voices of the other scenes. Some only want the legendary yet unreleased Stanton cut.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: noodles_leone on March 11, 2017, 04:38:40 AM
Some think that the 161 min version is the better one, and some don't like the different sounding voices of the other scenes. Some only want the legendary yet unreleased Stanton cut.

with a Norwegian dub with Greek subs.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on March 11, 2017, 06:02:16 AM
... and some don't like the different sounding voices of the other scenes...

On the single disc MGM blu-ray mono-track they fixed that well enough for me - in particular lowering the pitch of Wallach's new dubbing.

Some only want the legendary yet unreleased Stanton cut.

Ah... this one:

The perfect version that I would release, of course. Italian version minus 2 scenes (Eastwood and LvC in their night camp, Wallach asking for the way to the monastery) and with the shorter torture Scene and (why not?) with that short scene at the end with Eastwood mounting his horse. And of course without the cave scene.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on March 11, 2017, 03:17:08 PM
Here's the final word:
You want the US Theatrical cut so you can hear the 3 principals speaking English in the dub they laid down in the fall of 1967.

You want the Italian dub so you can watch the "extended cut" in the only way it was meant to be seen by Leone.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on March 11, 2017, 04:22:51 PM
You want the Italian dub so you can watch the "extended cut" in the only way it was meant to be seen by Leone.

Which is everything in the extended cut minus the grotto scene? It would be nice if they could provide a seamless branching release so we could pick and choose...


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on March 11, 2017, 06:55:16 PM
Any word on region coding?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on March 11, 2017, 07:37:48 PM
Which is everything in the extended cut minus the grotto scene? It would be nice if they could provide a seamless branching release so we could pick and choose...
Leone 66 wanted the grotto scene in, or it would never have appeared in the Roman premiere. Leone 67 wanted it out. We should be able to honor the intentions of both creative geniuses. I agree that seamless branching would have provided us with the definitive release.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on March 11, 2017, 07:41:13 PM
Any word on region coding?
WTFH are you talking about?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on March 11, 2017, 07:52:21 PM
WTFH are you talking about?

This new release will have what region code?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Le Bon on March 12, 2017, 06:54:21 AM
I think Kino Lorber's releases are region free.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on March 12, 2017, 10:47:13 AM
Leone 66 wanted the grotto scene in, or it would never have appeared in the Roman premiere. Leone 67 wanted it out. We should be able to honor the intentions of both creative geniuses. I agree that seamless branching would have provided us with the definitive release.

That's a far more balanced opinion than the one you had regarding the reinstatement of the scenes Visconti removed after the Cannes premiere of "The Leopard":

Those scenes are not only weak, they actually detract from the work as a whole. The director was wise to excise them. Restoring them is actually a betrayal of Visconti's art. Of course, there is always money to be made on idiots who can be lured by the idea that "bigger is better," so longer cuts will continue to appear.




Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on March 12, 2017, 11:01:41 AM
That's a far more balanced opinion than the one you had regarding the reinstatement of the scenes Visconti removed after the Cannes premiere of "The Leopard":
Uh, do I really have to point out the difference between a work by Leone and one by Visconti? On this board? Really?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on March 12, 2017, 11:16:12 AM
This new release will have what region code?
Were you actually wondering if a release from a US publisher was going to be compatible with US machines? Really?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on March 12, 2017, 12:14:31 PM
Uh, do I really have to point out the difference between a work by Leone and one by Visconti? On this board? Really?

Well in the context of the above, I am curious. Otherwise, I'm good  :)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on March 12, 2017, 12:21:09 PM
Were you actually wondering if a release from a US publisher was going to be compatible with US machines? Really?

I do not know where Kino Lorber is based :o


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on March 12, 2017, 09:53:31 PM
I have do not know where Kino Lorber is based :o

Given that "Kino" means "cinema" in German and several East European languages makes your assumption (at least I assume that was the case) that they aren't US-based not unreasonable.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on March 12, 2017, 11:13:33 PM
Given that "Kino" means "cinema" in German and several East European languages makes your assumption (at least I assume that was the case) that they aren't US-based not unreasonable.


I'm not very familiar with that company. I had previously heard "Kino Lorber" discussed once or twice in regard to DVD/BRD, but I don't really know much about them. Add to that the fact that mike siegel, a German, brought the news about this release, and yeah, I was unsure if it was a European or USA release.

Hearing that it is a USA release is good news for me.  And if the disc is region-free, that's good news for all you Europeans as well  :)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Dust Devil on March 12, 2017, 11:40:22 PM
Ja, genau.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on March 13, 2017, 01:04:23 PM
Hearing that it is a USA release is good news for me.  And if the disc is region-free, that's good news for all you Europeans as well  :)

Drink, you must be the only person on this forum who cares about region coding. We've been telling you for years, you have to go region free or you end up missing out on some great releases.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: mike siegel on March 13, 2017, 04:37:13 PM
KINO LORBER is quite big in the US, I thought everybody (actually buying films on disc) knows them...

I co-produced the US CONVOY Blu-ray for them a year ago, nice company, some really good titles.
I am not sure that they have no region code. On the sleeves it states "A". But I belong to those freaks
who always have multiform players, I wouldn't really know or care :).


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on March 13, 2017, 06:47:20 PM
Drink, you must be the only person on this forum who cares about region coding. We've been telling you for years, you have to go region free or you end up missing out on some great releases.


Kindly give me a link to a good region-free BRD player that is reasonably priced. Thanks  :)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Lil Brutto on March 13, 2017, 08:48:45 PM
I co-produced the US CONVOY Blu-ray for them a year ago, nice company, some really good titles.

With your connections, can you got some insider info on their GBU release?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Paulo on March 21, 2017, 09:58:23 AM
According to a post on Kino Lorber Studio Classics Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/KinoLorberStudioClassics/):

"The disc will have the full version of the "skeleton scene" (without audio) which L'Immagine Ritrovata found when working on their 4K restoration"

I'm trying to find out about the pi$$ yellow situation.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Paulo on March 21, 2017, 11:06:07 AM
OK; so i messaged Kino Lorber Studio Classics via Facebook regarding all things yellow, and here is how it went:


Me: Can you tell us if the new GBU Blu-ray will be yellow tinted like the last MGM effort? Thank you
Kino Lorber:   we're working on this issue.

Me: Thank you very much, that is indeed good news. I see only blue skies ahead! The life of this film is in your hands - we need no yellow, and the original mono soundtrack. You have a *real* chance here to make this release beyond definitive. Its life is in your hands...

So... it could be good news, lets hope so   ;D

(the bold / underscore is my emphasis)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: mike siegel on March 21, 2017, 11:14:18 AM
With your connections, can you got some insider info on their GBU release?

I just (hopefully) started another project with them.
But I see GBU fans are much faster than me regarding getting information...
We all hope the best.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on March 21, 2017, 01:40:04 PM
This gives me hope.

But one of the questions about this release has been, How did Kino outbid Criterion for this package? (We know CC was interested at one point). Speculation on my part: Criterion calculated what it would cost to re-do the colors and deducted the cost from their bid. Kino then won the bid handily, not anticipating any additional expenses. Now that the issue has been aired, they're trying to find a cheap way to tweak the colors, to be able to say they tried to do something. But there's no way to do a proper job without laying out some serious cash, and the projected earnings on this project will never justify them spending any more money. End of the day: same bad colors. I hope, hope, hope I'm wrong.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Le Bon on March 21, 2017, 02:13:41 PM
According to a post on Kino Lorber Studio Classics Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/KinoLorberStudioClassics/):

"The disc will have the full version of the "skeleton scene" (without audio) which L'Immagine Ritrovata found when working on their 4K restoration"

I'm trying to find out about the pi$$ yellow situation.

If L'Immagine Ritrovata found the skeleton scene when working on their restoration wouldn't we have heard about it before now?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on March 21, 2017, 04:18:42 PM
If L'Immagine Ritrovata found the skeleton scene when working on their restoration wouldn't we have heard about it before now?
Not if they found it on your site.  ;)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Lil Brutto on March 21, 2017, 08:32:06 PM
Here's the KL representative's response to my questions in another forum:

Quote
MisterLime,

Many folks have been asking this very question on several forums over the past few days. Will the KL release of the US theatrical cut be sourced from the 2014 4K master (used for the 2014 MGM BD) or a new 4K master? If the 2014 4K master will be used for the US theatrical cut will the image be altered in any way in terms of color, saturation, contrast?

Also, what is the source of the "M.O.S. Deleted Scene of Blondie in the desert finding skeletons"? Did you find this previously unseen footage in the archives or elsewhere?

Quote from: MisterLime
The 4K master will be the same master, we're looking into the yellowishness of the master and see if we can make some improvements. We'll make further announcements later.

MGM found the M.O.S. deleted scene and offered it to us as an extra, that's all I know.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on March 21, 2017, 09:00:12 PM
I see only blue skies ahead!  ;D

 ;D

But one of the questions about this release has been, How did Kino outbid Criterion for this package? (We know CC was interested at one point). Speculation on my part: Criterion calculated what it would cost to re-do the colors and deducted the cost from their bid. Kino then won the bid handily, not anticipating any additional expenses. Now that the issue has been aired, they're trying to find a cheap way to tweak the colors, to be able to say they tried to do something. But there's no way to do a proper job without laying out some serious cash, and the projected earnings on this project will never justify them spending any more money. End of the day: same bad colors. I hope, hope, hope I'm wrong.

I hope you are too, but I fear you're probably right  :(


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Le Bon on March 22, 2017, 03:45:15 AM
Not if they found it on your site.  ;)

Alas its not my site but Jordan Krug's.  :)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Le Bon on March 22, 2017, 11:08:42 AM
I contacted Kino on facebook and and had a reply today.  I asked about the yellow issue and the theatrical cut being used.

we're working on the "yellow" issue. And to be accurate, they did not use a tint, the assistant cameraman who oversaw the 4K transfer in Italy thought he was delivering a version closest to the director's vision. Some agree, some don't.

The extended version were scenes added to the original, so we don't know why it would worry you one way or another.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Lil Brutto on March 22, 2017, 04:11:03 PM
Essentially the same answer regarding the color grading.

"We don't know why it would worry you one way or another." What does this mean?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on March 22, 2017, 06:17:46 PM
 It would be nice if they use the colors similar to the Mondo version. Or even the MGM SE DVD is fine.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Lil Brutto on March 22, 2017, 09:33:18 PM
Or the ACTUAL colors. It's really not that hard to figure out.  >:(


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: stanton on March 23, 2017, 04:03:48 AM
It would be nice if they use the colors similar to the Mondo version. Or even the MGM SE DVD is fine.

I turned the colors of the Blu a little bit down, then it looks nice. Better than the SE DVD.

I won't buy this new Blu, as I'm not very interested in the 161 min version. I like most of the additional scenes of the original version very much, and the MGM Blu is good enough for the next years, and in 2 or 3 years the next HD remaster is to be expected anyway.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on March 23, 2017, 07:10:10 AM
I turned the colors of the Blu a little bit down, then it looks nice. Better than the SE DVD.

I won't buy this new Blu, as I'm not very interested in the 161 min version. I like most of the additional scenes of the original version very much, and the MGM Blu is good enough for the next years, and in 2 or 3 years the next HD remaster is to be expected anyway.

Yeh - I'm happy with my MGM one with the original mono. I'm not so interested in the US theatrical release either.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: mike siegel on March 23, 2017, 02:36:34 PM
Or the ACTUAL colors. It's really not that hard to figure out.  >:(

I am so happy I saw a gorgeous 35mm print  few years ago - you nailed down the "actual" colors!


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Lil Brutto on March 23, 2017, 03:29:51 PM
I am so happy I saw a gorgeous 35mm print  few years ago - you nailed down the "actual" colors!


Fans of the film are perpetually optimistic that the NEXT OFFICIAL RELEASE will get it right if not this time. For the past 15 years or so we've been repeatedly disappointed becuase we have been making a rather huge assumption that the those responsible (MGM or the licensee like KL) actually give a shit and will faithfully reproduce the original theatrical presentation for BOTH cuts. History shows they don't give a shit otherwise we would have our desired version by now considering they have all the resources to do so. Even a bunch of hardcore fans have managed to pool their resources and now know how the film originally looked and what comprised the Italian cut and International Cut. Efforts have been made recently to share this info with KL but no response yet. I guess we'll have to see what they come up with.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on March 23, 2017, 04:04:37 PM
Fans of the film are perpetually optimistic that the NEXT OFFICIAL RELEASE will get it right if not this time. For the past 15 years or so we've been repeatedly disappointed becuase we have been making a rather huge assumption that the those responsible (MGM or the licensee like KL) actually give a shit and will faithfully reproduce the original theatrical presentation for BOTH cuts. History shows they don't give a shit otherwise we would have our desired version by now considering they have all the resources to do so.
What burns is the fact that there are so many lesser films with excellent image quality now available on home video releases. How is it that one of the greatest movies of all time gets no respect while a mountain of schlock is treated like the pinnacle of filmic art?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on April 07, 2017, 06:05:05 AM
The Kino-Lorber rep who goes by the handle "Mr. Lime" has posted screen caps of before and after work on the yellow problem. Not sure if these are from actual work, or if this is a mock up. Anyway, there seems to be improvement, but there are still issues. Check these out: https://www.hometheaterforum.com/community/threads/official-kino-insider-announcements-thread-strictly-moderated-read-guidelines.337771/page-245#post-4476637


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Paulo on April 07, 2017, 10:04:58 AM
And here is another post that compares these very screen caps against the Italian Blu Ray....

http://thebadnet.blogspot.co.uk/



Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on April 07, 2017, 05:07:05 PM
The sentiment is right, but I'm not sure why they are bothering to be honest.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on April 07, 2017, 05:42:33 PM
The sentiment is right, but I'm not sure why they are bothering to be honest.
[In the voice of Don Adams] Wouldja believe . . . $$$?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Lil Brutto on April 07, 2017, 06:29:41 PM
Based on those screencaps KL is attempting to reverse the (irreversible) damage - the yellowish-teal color cast - done by L'Immagine Ritrovata to the 4K master rather than use a "raw" source without L'Immagine Ritrovata's meddling. The fact is this has already been done by fans not too long after the 2014 MGM BD release. (It looks like the fans have done a better job although KL may still be planning to tweak their regrade some more. Those caps still show excess green.) The problem with the BD is you can only pull back the yellowish-green cast so far before you start screwing up the other colors. If that's the same case with the master in the hands of KL then they won't be able to do much better.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on April 08, 2017, 07:18:07 AM
KL have bought the rights to the L'Immagine Ritrovata master. They're stuck with it. They're not going to now order another scan. We will have to wait for someone in the future to do this right.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on April 08, 2017, 07:51:48 AM
[In the voice of Don Adams] Wouldja believe . . . $$$?

But that's my point... anyone who cares enough to pay attention to the color grading is probably not going to buy this now - "lipstick on a pig" as they say. Anyone who doesn't care about the color grading won't notice whether they do it or not.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on April 08, 2017, 01:58:10 PM
A lot of people don't read boards like these and won't get the word. They will buy this. And then buy the next one, and the next one . . .


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Lil Brutto on April 09, 2017, 10:42:08 AM
There you have it. KL is not using an IB TECH print any other source as a color reference.

MisterLime says:

"One of the main reasons we acquired THE GOOD, THE BAD & THE UGLY was to FINALLY release the beloved theatrical cut. Many of the older fans who grew up watching the original disliked and even hated the extended cut, not just because it almost ruins the masterpiece, but also because it had completely replaced the original.

We had no idea the 4K restoration had some complaints due to the overall yellowishness of the master. We decided to do our own tests and agreed that it was a bit too yellow, so we did some minor color correction to create a version we feel is closest to the prints we had all seen screened many times and we don't agree with fans who think we should've gone further to create the look of the old releases, which we felt were too blue. What we'll be releasing will be the essential Blu-ray release of the classic, it will include both cuts, include all the previously produced extras and some very cool new ones. Will everyone be 100% happy with the transfer? We hope so, but realistically we doubt it, we think most of the fans will be very happy, some may still have issues with the color, and others will just post negative comments just to get a reaction because that's what they do."


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on April 09, 2017, 06:56:24 PM
There you have it. KL is not using an IB TECH print any other source as a color reference.

MisterLime says:

"One of the main reasons we acquired THE GOOD, THE BAD & THE UGLY was to FINALLY release the beloved theatrical cut. Many of the older fans who grew up watching the original disliked and even hated the extended cut, not just because it almost ruins the masterpiece, but also because it had completely replaced the original.

We had no idea the 4K restoration had some complaints due to the overall yellowishness of the master. We decided to do our own tests and agreed that it was a bit too yellow, so we did some minor color correction to create a version we feel is closest to the prints we had all seen screened many times and we don't agree with fans who think we should've gone further to create the look of the old releases, which we felt were too blue. What we'll be releasing will be the essential Blu-ray release of the classic, it will include both cuts, include all the previously produced extras and some very cool new ones. Will everyone be 100% happy with the transfer? We hope so, but realistically we doubt it, we think most of the fans will be very happy, some may still have issues with the color, and others will just post negative comments just to get a reaction because that's what they do."


Thanks for this.

Did you mention that the 2003 MGM BRD (extended cut); 1997 MGM DVD (theatrical cut); and Mondo BRD all have good color that they can use as a reference?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Lil Brutto on April 09, 2017, 08:59:35 PM
They're going to do their own thing.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on April 10, 2017, 07:16:32 AM
MisterLime says:
.... and others will just post negative comments just to get a reaction because that's what they do."


There shouldn't be any negative comments worth taking seriously if the job is well done. Without wanting to knock Kino which is otherwise a great company, it seems that in this case they didn't quite realize what they were getting themselves into.

Having said that, the color grading on the MGM release really doesn't bother me that much, and aside from the grotto scene, I like the extended cut (i.e. Leone's cut when the grotto is excluded), so I'm not really the target audience for this one.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on April 12, 2017, 08:50:57 AM
Lil brutto and I have made Kino aware that the theatrical cut cannot be fully reconstructed using the MGM 4k extended cut as the only source...we pointed out the differences and even offered help. So far they have given a fairly dismissive reponse. If you want to see Leone's international cut reconstructed properly, please (diplomatically and politely) let Kino know in the  thread below. After 25+ years of mismashed home video releases, this is the chance to finally get it right..and Kino doesn't think enough people care. If you want Leone's cut honored exactly, please voice that now:

https://www.hometheaterforum.com/community/threads/official-kino-insider-announcements-thread-strictly-moderated-read-guidelines.337771/page-248


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on April 12, 2017, 11:52:24 AM
Thanks. I went to the thread (as "Jack Phillips of Kingsby Electronics") and made my feelings known. Maybe if enough people speak out KL will do the right thing.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on April 12, 2017, 01:55:11 PM
From HTF:

MisterLime: Okay, this needs to stop, I said all I will say about this, please take your complaints elsewhere. This thread is actually for announcements, questions and answers. The critical discussion thread is listed below:

https://www.hometheaterforum.com/community/threads/critical-discussion-thread-your-thoughts-on-kino-lorber-blu-rays.337772/


My response (just in case it gets deleted):

Dozens of people excited, asking questions (I wasn't complaining) and talking in depth about a future release of a blu ray from Kino is a bad thing? Wow...so much for word of mouth publicity. I thought this thread was for future releases and the other thread was for discs already released. They're labelled that way. I guess there's nothing left to say anyways...seems an odd business move to avoid answering legitimate questions directly from your market, but you know best. I look forward to the release, and seeing what Kino has done with this amazing film, thank you.





Thanks to everyone who posted. The representative from Kino has essentially told us to "shut up", and he refuses to answer my polite and specific questions about the theatrical cut. So buyer beware I guess...at least we tried. This is only...motivation for the future :)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Lil Brutto on April 12, 2017, 07:18:41 PM
MisterLime: Okay, this needs to stop, I said all I will say about this, please take your complaints elsewhere. This thread is actually for announcements, questions and answers.

Thanks to everyone who posted. The representative from Kino has essentially told us to "shut up", and he refuses to answer my polite and specific questions about the theatrical cut. So buyer beware I guess...at least we tried. This is only...motivation for the future :)

He'd be much better off responding to our queries honestly rather than ignoring/dismissing us as an annoyance.

UPDATE: He did provide some answers so that's good.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on April 12, 2017, 07:32:28 PM
Mr. Lime I guess has seen the potential errors of his ways and has given us a breakdown of their cut!:


Here's some answers to the questions posted by Lil Brutto

We'll do everything possible to release the best version of The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. I'll notify everyone of any further revisions (if any), so please drop this and wait for the release before criticizing an upcoming release no one has seen yet.

1. Original 1967 production company credit is altered
Our release will include the "altered" credit.
2. There is supposed to be a “flip cut” transition/optical wipe from Tuco talking to Blondie (and taking a bite of his cigar) to being hung. The extended version simply cuts instead of doing the flip wipe (most likely because the flip cut was an optical not present in the original negative).
This will most likely be the same as the extended cut
3. There is not supposed to be a fade out on the gun shop owner with the sign in his mouth in the US theatrical cut. It is supposed to cut directly to the shot of the mass exodus of Sibley and his soldiers. Currently the extended cut fades out early to black, meaning it won’t be possible to use the tail end of the gun shop owner shot.
This scene will as it appeared in the original U.S. theatrical cut
4. The MGM 4K fades out earlier when Blondie passes out and Tuco is bringing him water in the desert. The fade out in the desert scene is supposed to happen approximately 2 to 3 seconds later.
This will most likely be the same as the extended cut
5. The MGM 4K has a dissolve from the night mission scene to the scene of the coach arriving to the mission. In the US theatrical cut, this shot is supposed to fade up from black, but now the dissolve is part of the beginning of the shot.
This scene will as it appeared in the original U.S. theatrical cut
6. The shot of the train leaving the station (with Tuco and Wallace on it) is longer in the US theatrical cut, before cutting directly to Tuco in the train and not dissolving out earlier to the early morning camp scene like the 4K.
This will most likely be the same as the extended cut


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on April 13, 2017, 11:31:33 AM
I'm confused. If they have access to the theatrical cut to handle items #1, 3 and 5, then why use the extended cut for #2, 4 and 6 ?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Le Bon on April 13, 2017, 11:44:12 AM
I'm confused. If they have access to the theatrical cut to handle items #1, 3 and 5, then why use the extended cut for #2, 4 and 6 ?

Someone asked this question. Here is misterlime's reply and a later post on the release date.

It all depends on what's available to us and what's not, all the film elements are in Italy and it all depends on which scans are available to us. We've paid a very large sum to acquire this classic and will be spending almost as much to get this released. We'll be releasing a 2-disc special edition of both cuts loaded with extras at our usual SRP, like we dd with the Sicilian Clan, One Million Years BC, The Wanderers and others.

We're not sure about the street date yet. We're hoping July, but it could be August. We're hopeful to add a couple of cool extras.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: stanton on April 13, 2017, 12:40:07 PM
But they will keep the grotto scene?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Lil Brutto on April 13, 2017, 01:20:09 PM
The grotto scene will be removed for their release version (which will be an approximation of the International Cut/US theatrical cut) and he says they have the elements to restore the original transition from the gun shop scene to the following mass exodus of confederate soldiers.

I find it strange that KL doesn't have access to the 35mm elements for the flip cut transition given it was used for the 2009 Sky Cinema restoration used for the Mondo BD.

We didn't get the opportunity to point that, in addition to entire scenes, there are more subtle shots here and there that were not in the IC. For example, the dining scene at Stevens ranch is shorter in the IC.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: stamper on April 15, 2017, 01:42:02 AM
I think the skeleton scene is the one posted online.
The way they word the source, it too obscure. I think La Traviatta ripped it and probably conned Kino by selling it to them. It's pretty obvious.

I'm fine with another variation, however, it would be great if they deleted that crap grotto scene from the extended version.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on April 15, 2017, 07:44:19 AM
I think the skeleton scene is the one posted online.
The way they word the source, it too obscure. I think La Traviatta ripped it and probably conned Kino by selling it to them. It's pretty obvious.

How do they word the source? I can't find the reference.

I'm fine with another variation, however, it would be great if they deleted that crap grotto scene from the extended version.

Seamless branching? That way you can choose whether to watch with or without.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Le Bon on April 15, 2017, 01:37:10 PM
Their skeleton scene  is from the Italian archives I believe. It is 8 seconds longer and has no sound.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: stamper on April 15, 2017, 01:53:25 PM
When asked they say it's from La Traviatta who found it.
La Variatta doesn't say anything about it, so I suspect it might be taken from the fan print.
We'll see if it differs.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Lil Brutto on April 16, 2017, 12:05:36 PM
KL claims their footage of the SS is approximately 8 seconds longer than the fan source.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on April 16, 2017, 01:33:21 PM
When asked they say it's from La Traviatta who found it.
La Variatta doesn't say anything about it, so I suspect it might be taken from the fan print.
We'll see if it differs.

The Leone group has one 1966 print still in their archives. The fan group I'm a part of has 2 (one full/one partial.) having the two prints allows us to make some conclusions about the original 1966 cut. It is entirely possible the skeleton scene was part of the 1966 release prints, if the version on the Kino disc also has the unique optical dissolve, and perhaps some evidence of being pulled from a print (dust/scratches/color correction etc)then we might be able to determine that they pulled it from their own release print and voila, we can surmise it was part of the 1966 cut. If it doesn't have the dissolve, that muddies the waters, although it could have been trimmed from the negative at the same time as the extended beating scene. More on this all here:

http://theeditroomfloor.blogspot.com/2017/04/current-issues-with-good-bad-and-ugly.html

http://theeditroomfloor.blogspot.com/2017/04/current-issues-with-good-bad-and-ugly_15.html

http://theeditroomfloor.blogspot.com/2017/04/current-issues-with-good-bad-and-ugly_19.html







Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Le Bon on April 27, 2017, 03:12:39 PM
The tentative release date is 15th August.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on May 25, 2017, 05:40:57 AM
And now the pre-order is up at amazon: https://www.amazon.com/The-Good-the-Bad-and-the-Ugly-Blu-ray/dp/B0716XZB2B?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on May 25, 2017, 07:39:17 AM
Do I order or wait to see how it looks? .......


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: stanton on May 25, 2017, 08:40:17 AM
I wait until I know how it is, then I don't buy it ...


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Le Bon on May 26, 2017, 03:47:28 AM
Do I order or wait to see how it looks? .......

I'm waiting to see how it looks.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: XhcnoirX on June 12, 2017, 12:56:45 PM
From http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=21492 :
Quote
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly 50th Anniversary Blu-ray Edition Detailed    
Posted June 10, 2017 03:33 PM by Webmaster

      
Pre-order Now
Kino InternationalKino Lorber have dated and detailed their brand new 50th Anniversary Blu-ray edition of director Sergio Leone's classic western The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (1966), starring Eli Wallach, Clint Eastwood, Lee Van Cleef, Aldo Giuffrè, and Luigi Pistilli. The two-disc set will be available for purchase on August 15th.

Synopsis: By far the most ambitious, unflinchingly graphic and stylistically influential western ever mounted, The Good The Bad And The Ugly is an engrossing action shot through with a volatile mix of myth and realism. Clint Eastwood returns as the "Man With No Name," this time teaming with two gunslingers to pursue a cache of $20,000-and letting no one, not even warring factions in a civil war, stand in their way.

From sun-drenched panoramas to bold hard close-ups, exceptional camera work captures the beauty and cruelty of the barren landscape and the hardened characters who stride unwaveringly through it. Forging a vibrant and yet detached style of action that had not been seen before, and has never been matched since, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly shatters the western mold in true Eastwood style.

Special Features and Technical Specs:

DISC ONE

    4K transfer of the Original U.S. Theatrical Cut
    New Audio Commentary by Film Historian Tim Lucas
    "Trailers From Hell" with Ernest Dickerson
    Newly Restored 2.0 Mono Audio
    M.O.S. Deleted Scene of Blondie in the desert finding skeletons
    Trailers for Sergio Leone Westerns
    Italian Dolby Digital 2.0 Mono
    English DTS-HD MA 5.1 Audio
    Animated Image Galleries
    Optional English SDH subtitles

DISC TWO

    4K transfer of the Extended Cut
    Newly Restored 2.0 Mono Audio
    Audio Commentary By Acclaimed Film Historian Richard Schickel
    Audio Commentary By Noted Cultural Historian Christopher Frayling
    Leone's West: Making Of Documentary
    The Leone Style: On Sergio Leone Featurette
    The Man Who Lost The Civil War: Civil War Documentary
    Reconstruction The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
    II Maestro: Ennio Morricone and The Good, The Bad And The Ugly Featurette
    Deleted Scenes
    Original U.S. Theatrical Trailer
    Original French Theatrical Trailer
    English DTS-HD MA 5.1 Audio
    Italian Dolby Digital 2.0 Mono
    Optional English subtitles

ADDITIONAL NOTES FROM THE DISTRIBUTORS

Besides the color correction (removing the yellowishness) we also made the following corrections and adjustments to create our 161 Minute cut of the Theatrical version:

1. The "flip cut" transition/optical wipe from "Tuco talking to Blondie and taking a bite of his cigar to being hung" was restored to its original version

2. The fadeout to black of the "gun shop owner with the sign in his mouth" scene is now a cut to exodus scene.

3. The fadeout of the "Blondie passing out as Tuco is bringing him water" scene happens exactly 1 second later than how it was on old MGM DVD release of the Theatrical Cut.

4. The dissolve from "night" scene to "coach arriving at the mission" scene now fades up from black

5. The shot of the train leaving the station (with Tuco and Wallace on it) was supposedly longer in the US theatrical cut, before cutting directly to Tuco in the train and not dissolving out earlier to the early morning camp scene - Our 4K of the 161 minute cut matches the old MGM DVD of the theatrical cut exactly.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on June 12, 2017, 01:19:05 PM
unfortunately, despite being warned of the potential pitfalls of doing so, Kino SEEMS to be using the 1998 DVD as a reference for their u.s./international cut, instead of all the correct reference they were offered. The 98 DVD is riddled with differences/changes from the original 1967 theatrical cut, it includes many shots it shouldn't from the Italian version, scenes are recut using both, and it is missing some shots as well. I have been very vocal about this being a poor choice of reference so hopefully they have other references that will point them in the right direction.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on June 14, 2017, 05:06:46 AM
I wanted to illustrate further one of the issues with using the MGM 1998 dvd as the reference cut for the new Kino "theatrical version" (which Kino has hinted they are doing, but have not confirmed). In particular this scene, as Tuco's gang approaches, you can see "one of these is not like the others" and it's the MGM 1998 dvd. For some reason, not only does the 98 dvd incorporate some (but not all) of the Italian version shots into the American version - it actually re-orders a few of them. So effectively someone at MGM recut their own version of the scene, and it matches neither the 1966 Italian cut, nor the 1967 International (U.S) cut. Hopefully Kino will match the 1967 International (U.S.) cut as seen here on a 1967 35mm print and a 1990 laserdisc reference, as that is Leone's approved shorter version.

https://vimeo.com/221519241



Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on June 14, 2017, 12:26:53 PM
Holy Leone! I had never before even imagined that shots had been re-ordered. Is this yet another of John Kirk's crimes? Regardless, this cannot stand, and 1998 should be junked as a reference. Thank you, Mr. Krug, for your diligence and effort. You are doing great work.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on June 14, 2017, 03:53:40 PM
Lil brutto and I are certainly trying to get this film released the way Sergio intended...thanks!


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on June 15, 2017, 08:46:23 AM
http://theeditroomfloor.blogspot.ca/2017/04/current-issues-with-good-bad-and-ugly.html?m=1

I have posted an update that summarizes and gathers in one place all my recent back and forth with Kino and in general explains why Kino should not be using the 98 dvd as their guide (and claim that they are releasing a "4K transfer of the Original Theatrical Cut"). If you've already been following these threads on blu ray forum than you've already read all of this..but if you want clarity on the issue you'll find it there.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Lil Brutto on June 15, 2017, 01:15:42 PM
Lil brutto and I are certainly trying to get this film released the way Sergio intended...thanks!

That comparison video of the Tuco gang/hotel scene is fantastic. Excellent job.  O0


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on June 15, 2017, 03:09:37 PM
Thanks for the great work, Jordan. Where is the link to "Part 2" of your post?

Also, on an unrelated matter: In what ways - video-wise, not audio-wise - do the MGM Special Edition DVD (I think it's 2004?) differ from the original 1967 Italian release? Is it only the Grotto scene? What about the Tuco beatig scene? Anything else?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on June 15, 2017, 04:05:53 PM
Thanks for the great work, Jordan. Where is the link to "Part 2" of your post?

Also, on an unrelated matter: In what ways - video-wise, not audio-wise - do the MGM Special Edition DVD (I think it's 2004?) differ from the original 1967 Italian release? Is it only the Grotto scene? What about the Tuco beatig scene? Anything else?


I think the answers you seek are in part 2 here:

http://theeditroomfloor.blogspot.ca/2017/04/current-issues-with-good-bad-and-ugly_15.html?m=1

It's a very long post, apologies in advance :)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on June 16, 2017, 11:47:35 PM
The Leone group has one 1966 print still in their archives. The fan group I'm a part of has 2 (one full/one partial.) having the two prints allows us to make some conclusions about the original 1966 cut.

That shortening of the train scene so the music doesn't fit anymore is just bizarre.

For some reason, not only does the 98 dvd incorporate some (but not all) of the Italian version shots into the American version - it actually re-orders a few of them. So effectively someone at MGM recut their own version of the scene, and it matches neither the 1966 Italian cut, nor the 1967 International (U.S) cut. Hopefully Kino will match the 1967 International (U.S.) cut as seen here on a 1967 35mm print and a 1990 laserdisc reference, as that is Leone's approved shorter version.

There are a couple of great transitions in the Mondo and 4k ones absent from the others:

- at the 0:17 mark the dust coming out from the gun cleaning leads into the dust kicked up by the horses
- at the 0:27-0:28 mark there is a nice glide of the cart off screen replaced by the head of the gang member gliding on screen.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on June 17, 2017, 08:08:25 PM
I think the answers you seek are in part 2 here:

http://theeditroomfloor.blogspot.ca/2017/04/current-issues-with-good-bad-and-ugly_15.html?m=1

It's a very long post, apologies in advance :)


Just read through it, thanks  O0 O0 O0

The 2014 version is identical to the MGM SE DVD?

Again, I can't click the link to Part 3. Can you provide it for me? Thanks  O0


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Le Bon on June 20, 2017, 11:53:24 AM
Some new extras are added

Disc 1:
- 4K transfer of the Original U.S. Theatrical Cut Available for the first time in HD
- New Audio Commentary by Film Historian Tim Lucas
- Trailers From Hell with Ernest Dickerson
- Newly Restored 2.0 Mono Audio
- Alternate Scene: The Optical Flip
- Deleted Scene 1: Skeletons in the Desert
- Deleted Scene 2: Extended Torture Scene
- GBU on the: animated behind-the-scenes image gallery
- Promoting GBU: Posters & Lobby Cards animated image gallery
- Sergio Leone Westerns: Original Theatrical Trailers
- Italian Dolby Digital 2.0 Mono
- English DTS-HD MA 5.1 Audio
- Reversible Art

Disc 2:
- 4K transfer of the Extended Cut
- Newly Restored 2.0 Mono Audio
- Audio Commentary by Film Historian Richard Schickel
- Audio Commentary By Noted Cultural Historian Sir Christopher Frayling
- Leone's West: Making Of Documentary (19:55)
- Il Maestro: Ennio Morricone and GBU Featurette Part 1 (7:48)
- Il Maestro: Ennio Morricone and GBU Featurette Part 2 (12:26)
- The Leone Style: On Sergio Leone Featurette (23:48)
- The Man Who Lost The Civil War: Civil War Documentary (14:24)
- Reconstruction GBU (11:09)
- Deleted Scene 1: Extended Tuco Torture scene (7:15)
- Deleted Scene 2: The Socorro Sequence - A Reconstruction (3:02)
- Vignette 1: Uno, Due, Tre (0:40)
- Vignette 2: Italian Lunch (0:43)
- Vignette 3: New York Accent (0:09)
- Vignette 4: Gun in Holster (0:58)
- Original U.S. Theatrical Trailer
- Original French Theatrical Trailer
- English DTS-HD MA 5.1 Audio
- Italian Dolby Digital 2.0 Mono

 They have listed the flip cut as an extra.  They gave the impression it would be in the theatrical cut before as it should be. We'll just have to wait and see now.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: mike siegel on June 20, 2017, 04:18:10 PM
I made two short (images only) featurettes :).


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on June 20, 2017, 04:23:44 PM
Posters and Lobby Cards?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: mike siegel on June 20, 2017, 04:47:02 PM
Yes. And "GBU on the set". The word  "set" is missing.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on June 20, 2017, 04:58:07 PM
How many posters and lobby cards are we talking about? Is this gonna be one of those worth-the-price-of-admission-alone kinda featurettes?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: mike siegel on June 20, 2017, 05:19:16 PM
Nothing sensational, I just thought it would add some color, after all the posters & cards are so nice. (about 125 from my archive + a handful I don't own.)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on June 20, 2017, 06:29:46 PM
Nothing sensational, I just thought it would add some color, after all the posters & cards are so nice. (about 125 from my archive + a handful I don't own.)

Awesome Mike. Looking forward to seeing the full sets!


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on June 20, 2017, 07:42:36 PM
So I guess this has to be purhased even if the feature is screwed up  ;)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on June 20, 2017, 07:44:59 PM
Yeah. Damn you, Siegel! >:(


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on June 20, 2017, 07:57:30 PM
I just did the pre-order. It's $29.95.

This will be the SIXTH disc I have of GBU:

Original MGM DVD of (supposed) US theatrical cut (unrestored)
MGM SE DVD (no original mono)
MGM BRD (red faces, and I believe no original mono, right?)
Mondo BRD (no English audio, serious grading issues)
2014 BRD (piss)
2017 KL (?)

Plus I also have the digital file, purchased from iTunes, on my computer. (i believe that's the same as the SE DVD).

something tells me that, barring a miracle, this STILL will not be the definitive version of the movie. This is probably their evil plan all along. There is no other movie that I own six copies of!


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Le Bon on June 21, 2017, 02:39:38 AM
I wonder what these are? Perhaps some footage of Eastwood or Leone in Italy or press conference, that kind of thing.

- Vignette 1: Uno, Due, Tre (0:40)
- Vignette 2: Italian Lunch (0:43)
- Vignette 3: New York Accent (0:09)
- Vignette 4: Gun in Holster (0:58)



Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on June 21, 2017, 04:34:15 AM
I wonder what these are? Perhaps some footage of Eastwood or Leone in Italy or press conference, that kind of thing.

- Vignette 1: Uno, Due, Tre (0:40)
- Vignette 2: Italian Lunch (0:43)
- Vignette 3: New York Accent (0:09)
- Vignette 4: Gun in Holster (0:58)



These might be the "Easter eggs" on the old 2003 DVD?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on June 21, 2017, 04:38:36 AM

Just read through it, thanks  O0 O0 O0

The 2014 version is identical to the MGM SE DVD?

Again, I can't click the link to Part 3. Can you provide it for me? Thanks  O0

Gotta fix those links :)

http://theeditroomfloor.blogspot.ca/2017/04/current-issues-with-good-bad-and-ugly_59.html?m=1

If I understand your question, yes, the "extended English versions" are generally all the same. The 2014 extended was recreated from new scans off the negative, (and they based their cut off of the previous extended version) however as we all know they botched the color correction.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on June 21, 2017, 04:45:46 AM
I just did the pre-order. It's $29.95.

This will be the SIXTH disc I have of GBU:

Original MGM DVD of (supposed) US theatrical cut (unrestored)
MGM SE DVD (no original mono)
MGM BRD (red faces, and I believe no original mono, right?)
Mondo BRD (no English audio, serious grading issues)
2014 BRD (piss)
2017 KL (?)

Plus I also have the digital file, purchased from iTunes, on my computer. (i believe that's the same as the SE DVD).

something tells me that, barring a miracle, this STILL will not be the definitive version of the movie. This is probably their evil plan all along. There is no other movie that I own six copies of!

Lil brutto and I have worked really hard to try and convince them to live up to their packaging/marketing which states "original U.S. theatrical cut". Unfortunately it looks like despite us advising them not to (while the new master was still being worked on months ago) they used the 98 DVD as reference. The 98 DVD has many differences when compared to the original u.s. Theatrical version. We won't know for sure until it comes out but irregardless, they were not able to fix the scene transitions that are unique to the original international/u.s. Cut. It won't be definitive but at least it's got some new extras, and you can have the 98 DVD in hd :)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on June 21, 2017, 09:03:17 AM
Lil brutto and I have worked really hard to try and convince them to live up to their packaging/marketing which states "original U.S. theatrical cut". Unfortunately it looks like despite us advising them not to (while the new master was still being worked on months ago) they used the 98 DVD as reference. The 98 DVD has many differences when compared to the original u.s. Theatrical version. We won't know for sure until it comes out but irregardless, they were not able to fix the scene transitions that are unique to the original international/u.s. Cut. It won't be definitive but at least it's got some new extras, and you can have the 98 DVD in hd :)

I prefer the longer cut. I am excited about having the Italian version in original mono


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on July 07, 2017, 08:08:43 AM
Anyone here have an amazon prime subscription in the U.S.? Apparently kino's new "yellow reduced" version of the extended cut is available now on the prime video service. Would love to get an opinion and maybe even some screencaps? Not available in Canada unfortunately, damn geoblocking.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: T.H. on July 08, 2017, 05:55:10 PM
I'm embarrassed to admit that I didn't learn of this release until this week. I need to check the individual movie forums every now and again.

I'm absolutely thrilled that we will get a 4K scan of the Original Theatrical cut. I don't care for any of the scenes added in the Extended cut outside of Angel Eyes visiting the infirmary/whatever the official word may be.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 08, 2017, 08:30:20 PM
I don't care for any of the scenes added in the Extended cut outside of Angel Eyes visiting the infirmary/whatever the official word may be.

Usually referred to as a fort. It's not just for the injured. Though mostly injured are there now, because the uninjured have probably moved out toward the fighting front. It's usually called the fort scene. And virtually everyone agrees that it is the most important of the scenes that were removed from the US theatrical cut  :)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: stanton on July 09, 2017, 02:42:43 AM


I'm absolutely thrilled that we will get a 4K scan of the Original Theatrical cut.

Unfortunately you won't get what you hope to get. Only a try to reconstruct the theatrical cut out of the MGM 4K scan, you know the authentic looking one with the yellow teeth. But they will try to prune down the yellowness, so that the authentic look will also become history.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on July 09, 2017, 05:42:06 AM
Unfortunately you won't get what you hope to get. Only a try to reconstruct the theatrical cut out of the MGM 4K scan, you know the authentic looking one with the yellow teeth. But they will try to prune down the yellowness, so that the authentic look will also become history.

Also, in terms of editing, you're only gonna get an "approximation" of the shorter international theatrical cut, not the actual international cut Leone put his name on. Kino couldn't be bothered to do any proper research, even when the research materials were freely offered to them. It remains to be seen how far off they are but it doesn't look promising.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on July 09, 2017, 05:43:13 AM
Anyone here have an amazon prime subscription in the U.S.? Apparently kino's new "yellow reduced" version of the extended cut is available now on the prime video service. Would love to get an opinion and maybe even some screencaps? Not available in Canada unfortunately, damn geoblocking.

Someone on the blu ray forum is claiming that the amazon prime version is the 2009 version...will have to look into it...


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 09, 2017, 06:20:13 AM
Someone on the blu ray forum is claiming that the amazon prime version is the 2009 version...will have to look into it...

Which version is that? The original MGM blu-ray, which does not have the piss?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on July 09, 2017, 07:26:17 AM
Which version is that? The original MGM blu-ray, which does not have the piss?

Yeah, the one that is dnr'd to death.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: T.H. on July 10, 2017, 12:02:45 AM
Usually referred to as a fort. It's not just for the injured. Though mostly injured are there now, because the uninjured have probably moved out toward the fighting front. It's usually called the fort scene. And virtually everyone agrees that it is the most important of the scenes that were removed from the US theatrical cut  :)

Yeah, it is commonly referred to as the "fort scene", I just blanked on it. While I love that scene, I could sacrifice that for the other ~16 minutes that I really don't care for all that much.

Unfortunately you won't get what you hope to get. Only a try to reconstruct the theatrical cut out of the MGM 4K scan, you know the authentic looking one with the yellow teeth. But they will try to prune down the yellowness, so that the authentic look will also become history.

I realize with Leone films that nothing will ever truly be ideal, but I'm just glad that the original US theatrical version isn't going to continue to be ignored/buried. I'm very happy about this news.



This is a question to those with the tech knowledge...was the film stock used for the $ Trilogy kind of cheap? It feels that way, especially when you compare it to the Hollywood westerns of the 50s/60s. Am I wrong to say that this movie will never have a chance of looking nearly as good as stuff like Bad Day at Bad Rock (even though that's a modern western)?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on July 10, 2017, 09:49:17 AM
Yeah, it is commonly referred to as the "fort scene", I just blanked on it. While I love that scene, I could sacrifice that for the other ~16 minutes that I really don't care for all that much.

I realize with Leone films that nothing will ever truly be ideal, but I'm just glad that the original US theatrical version isn't going to continue to be ignored/buried. I'm very happy about this news.



This is a question to those with the tech knowledge...was the film stock used for the $ Trilogy kind of cheap? It feels that way, especially when you compare it to the Hollywood westerns of the 50s/60s. Am I wrong to say that this movie will never have a chance of looking nearly as good as stuff like Bad Day at Bad Rock (even though that's a modern western)?


The dollars trilogy were shot on 2p techniscope, which gave you two anamorphicly squeezed frames in the same area you'd only get one frame on traditional 35mm. Essentially you'd get twice the length of footage per roll of film that way...a lot of spaghetti westerns used it because it was cheaper. The reduction in image quality is very small - you can still get a very robust image out of the neg, especially with modern technology. Check out the Italian disc for FOD, fantastic restoration


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 10, 2017, 10:22:14 AM

The dollars trilogy were shot on 2p techniscope, which gave you two anamorphicly squeezed frames in the same area you'd only get one frame on traditional 35mm. Essentially you'd get twice the length of footage per roll of film that way...a lot of spaghetti westerns used it because it was cheaper. The reduction in image quality is very small - you can still get a very robust image out of the neg, especially with modern technology. Check out the Italian disc for FOD, fantastic restoration

Yes the Mondo FOD is best, I just wonder if it really looks as it did when the movie was released. Is it really "restored," or is it in fact "improved"?  ;)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on July 10, 2017, 11:00:25 AM
Most films on blu don't look like what they did in the theatre, because they're sourced from the negative. Prints are usually at least 2 generations away from the negative, they usually have more contrast, more grain etc, like a photocopy of a photocopy. The one advantage of the degradation is that it hides flaws, a classic example is the wires on the alien spaceships in war of the world's, they were hidden by the generation loss...once the film was scanned from the negative for home video the wires were way too apparent. Same with some of the effects in the Star Wars trilogy etc. for the dollars films some of the cheapness of sets, makeup etc shows through more on home video.

For fod they specifically fixed some flicker issues, film stock flashing issues, some hairs in the gate etc. I'm fine with that because those werent creative decisions, they were flaws from using cheap stock or mistakes made during filming.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: stanton on July 10, 2017, 12:12:22 PM

The dollars trilogy were shot on 2p techniscope, which gave you two anamorphicly squeezed frames in the same area you'd only get one frame on traditional 35mm. Essentially you'd get twice the length of footage per roll of film that way...a lot of spaghetti westerns used it because it was cheaper. The reduction in image quality is very small - you can still get a very robust image out of the neg, especially with modern technology. Check out the Italian disc for FOD, fantastic restoration

Leone shot all his westerns on Techniscope. Except Nobody.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Cusser on July 11, 2017, 08:42:49 AM
I did read somewhere that one of the reasons "FistFul" got made was because the film stock was soon to be expired, and needed to be used.

I think the Techniscope framing helped "push" Leone to his unique style.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Rblondie on July 16, 2017, 06:06:00 AM
Does anyone know if the P.E.A. credit under Grimaldi's name will be restored?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: stanton on July 16, 2017, 07:59:11 AM

I think the Techniscope framing helped "push" Leone to his unique style.

But the framing is more or less the same in every 2,35:1 film format.

Techniscope had some special characteristics, which I think every kind of film stock has, but I doubt that that was very important for the creation of Leone's style. But may have influenced some creative choices though.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on July 16, 2017, 09:46:18 AM
Looking at the Techniscope entry at Wikipedia, I see:
Quote
Techniscope's advantages over anamorphic CinemaScope are:

More economical: half the film stock used in 4-perforation frame cinematography; half the stock, same running time, less negative to develop.

Cinematography requires simpler, but technically superior, spherical lenses.

Film stock loads last twice as long; 2-perf stock shoots at 45 feet per minute (@24fps), while 4-perf stock shoots at 90 feet per minute.
Perhaps the slower film speed encouraged Leone to do longer takes?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: cigar joe on July 16, 2017, 10:37:11 AM
Looking at the Techniscope entry at Wikipedia, I see:Perhaps the slower film speed encouraged Leone to do longer takes?

And do a lot of angle experiments?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Le Bon on July 16, 2017, 11:20:18 AM
Does anyone know if the P.E.A. credit under Grimaldi's name will be restored?

No its not restored.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: mike siegel on July 16, 2017, 01:32:14 PM
Of course.
The major artistic difference to CinemaScope (or any other anamorphic process) is the depth of focus possible when filming with TechniScope. The image compositions Leone did together with his cinematographers would NOT have been possible with anamorphic lenses!


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 16, 2017, 01:35:56 PM
I hate CinemaScope, because whenever you pan across the landscapes, the image looks curved. This does not occur with Techniscope.
Also, with CinemaScope, faces look shorter and fatter than on other formats. I don't believe this occurs with Techiscope.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: mike siegel on July 16, 2017, 02:21:28 PM
With TechniScope one could use regular wide angle lenses which was the base for the now iconic Leone-style-photography. It is technically just not possible to get those kind of shots with anamorphic lenses, who distort and offer only a limited amount of depth of focus. I just dealt with the subject for the German TWO-LANE BLACKTOP Blu-ray release, Monte actually had shot the film in TechniScope for those reasons (the get as many different in-focus shots inside / outside the cars).  


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on July 18, 2017, 10:21:48 AM
You guys need to read my article on "My Name is Nobody" in Cinema Retro. I'm going to shamelessly quote myself here:

Quote
Two peculiarities of the Italian film industry, post-synchronisation of sound and the Techniscope film format, also contributed to the emergence of Leone’s style. The former allowed a mobile camera during shooting and the playing of music on set to keep actors in rhythm, while in post-production sounds could be manipulated and exaggerated as a commentary on, or integral part of, the action. The latter allowed for large widescreen compositions without the distortion of close-ups associated with American CinemaScope.

By the way, the most recent issue of Cinema Retro apparently (I haven't seen a copy myself yet) corrects a few errors the editors made when writing their own captions to the accompanying photos in the article.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: stanton on July 18, 2017, 12:31:25 PM
But Nobody at least wasn't shot in Techniscope, instead with the usual anamorphic lenses.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on July 18, 2017, 02:58:34 PM
Sure, but we're talking about the development of Leone's style in general. Plus with "Nobody" we have the curious situation of one person being the director and another being the auteur.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: mike siegel on July 19, 2017, 04:17:59 AM
NOBODY: Your article in RETRO sums it all up very well.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on July 19, 2017, 08:21:16 PM
No its not restored.

Kino's representative basically shrugged off this request when it was pointed out it was changed from the original release. They have a really defensive attitude towards anything detail related. Don't expect accuracy unfortunately, we won't be getting Leone's cut.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on July 19, 2017, 08:22:21 PM
Of course.
The major artistic difference to CinemaScope (or any other anamorphic process) is the depth of focus possible when filming with TechniScope. The image compositions Leone did together with his cinematographers would NOT have been possible with anamorphic lenses!

Great info Mike - thanks!


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on July 20, 2017, 07:23:07 AM
NOBODY: Your article in RETRO sums it all up very well.

Thanks Mike  O0

By the way, has anyone read Sidney Lumet's book "Making Movies"? I came across a copy at the local library the other day. I haven't finished it yet, but have read a nice chapter in it where he talks about specific lens choices for certain scenes in his films.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: mike siegel on July 20, 2017, 07:33:14 AM
When I decided to make films 20 years ago, out of my 1200 books on film about five volumes became my "bibles". His book was included of course :).

Making films & the choice of lenses are always tied together of course. Funny, starting with my work on the German TWO-LANE BLACKTOP Blu-ray,
I come across the "TechniScope-theme" every week now. For instance I just watched (my usual) dose of HAMMER-films and had almost forgotten that
some had been filmed in TechniScope as well (the process was linked to Technicolor Europe). Of course they had VERY limited budgets and possibilities,
and you also find some shots that could not have been filmed with anamorphic lenses, but one really has to look out for TechniScope there while
Leone's films are really a powerful demonstration of what was possible when using the process...


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 20, 2017, 11:10:43 AM
Leone may have shot in TechniScope on FOD because of the small budget, but even once he had larger budgets, he stuck with TechniScope. All 5 of his Westerns are in TechniScope, right? That means he was doing it for reasons other than saving money.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: mike siegel on July 20, 2017, 11:22:37 AM
TechniScope was not as bad as the Americans thought it was. On the screen you couldn't really see the difference (regarding grain & detail) to regular Scope films. The prints they made at Technicolor in Rome were very good, they had the experience, also thanks to the superior dye-transfer process (which ended in the 1970s).


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on July 20, 2017, 12:31:41 PM
TechniScope was not as bad as the Americans thought it was. On the screen you couldn't really see the difference (regarding grain & detail) to regular Scope films. The prints they made at Technicolor in Rome were very good, they had the experience, also thanks to the superior dye-transfer process (which ended in the 1970s).
Add to this the fact that you didn't get the distortion (the so called "mumps") of Cinemascope, and you could even say Techniscope was the superior process.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: stanton on July 20, 2017, 01:00:03 PM
Leone may have shot in TechniScope on FOD because of the small budget, but even once he had larger budgets, he stuck with TechniScope. All 5 of his Westerns are in TechniScope, right? That means he was doing it for reasons other than saving money.

The majority of the Spags which were shot in a 2,35:1 aspect ratio used Techniscope. It was the usual thing back then in Italy.

But I've read that the picture quality was less good. I think otherwise everybody should have used it the 60s and 70s.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on July 20, 2017, 01:07:27 PM
Add to this the fact that you didn't get the distortion (the so called "mumps") of Cinemascope, and you could even say Techniscope was the superior process.

You can use anamorphic distortion very creatively. Most recently, Scorcese did this great shot of the steps in Silence at the 0:42 mark here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuTjBL28l0U#t=0m42s


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on July 20, 2017, 01:32:50 PM
Another creative use of very wide-angle lenses is to make things seem further apart than they are. The into to "My Name is Nobody" is a good example of this since the gunslingers appear to be very far away but then appear in front of the camera very quickly as if they have covered a huge amount of ground.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: mike siegel on July 20, 2017, 02:14:28 PM
Again, TechniScope wasn't bad at all.
The major reason why it was used mostly in Italy (and France) was the fact that
it was an invention by Technicolor/Rome and only Technicolor Rome could
work with it! Got it?

I saw OUATITW on the biggest screens in Germany many times and
it looked GREAT, SUPERIOR, AWESOME.
The major reason for lesser picture quality is the loss of generations.
Some LA productions were 5 generations away from the negative
once they hit your screen in Amsterdam. While the TechniScope prints
from Rome had often one or two generations less (and DYE-TRANSFER!).
That more than made up for the smaller negative image.
I rest my case...


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: uncknown on July 27, 2017, 08:54:00 PM
When UA was preparing the cut-down version of the film Leone reportedly was involved in editing decisions.
According to SL, he preferred that whole scenes be excised rather than a lot of short bits.

If this is the case, one can't but wish that the LVC scene at the fort had been retained and the entertaining but not plot advancing EW gun shop scene had been excised.

IT's not that I don't like that scene but If I had to cut down the film to 2 hrs. and forty minutes it would seem to be the logical choice . I believe the British distributors cut it ou to make the film even shorter!
Bruce Marshall


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: uncknown on July 27, 2017, 08:58:38 PM
When I decided to make films 20 years ago, out of my 1200 books on film about five volumes became my "bibles". His book was included of course :).

Making films & the choice of lenses are always tied together of course. Funny, starting with my work on the German TWO-LANE BLACKTOP Blu-ray,
I come across the "TechniScope-theme" every week now. For instance I just watched (my usual) dose of HAMMER-films and had almost forgotten that
some had been filmed in TechniScope as well (the process was linked to Technicolor Europe). Of course they had VERY limited budgets and possibilities,
and you also find some shots that could not have been filmed with anamorphic lenses, but one really has to look out for TechniScope there while
Leone's films are really a powerful demonstration of what was possible when using the process...

Well, Super 35 replaced it and is superior because it has a larger negative capture and is ten percent wider.
I hate it and Techniscope. Very few directors know how to frame in this "narrow screen" format.
Shoot either spherical or anamorphic, dammitt!

bruce marshall


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: uncknown on July 27, 2017, 09:00:08 PM
The majority of the Spags which were shot in a 2,35:1 aspect ratio used Techniscope. It was the usual thing back then in Italy.

But I've read that the picture quality was less good. I think otherwise everybody should have used it the 60s and 70s.

IIRC AMERICAN GRAFITTI wa the last to us this process, in the US at least



Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 28, 2017, 12:03:31 AM
I just received an email from Amazon: the estimated arrival date for my pre-ordered KL GBU is August 21 - August 25


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: stanton on July 28, 2017, 05:59:36 AM
Well, Super 35 replaced it and is superior because it has a larger negative capture and is ten percent wider.
I hate it and Techniscope. Very few directors know how to frame in this "narrow screen" format.
Shoot either spherical or anamorphic, dammitt!



But the framing is the same when the aspect ratio is the same. What do you mean with that?

The differences lie in that what Mike described.



Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: uncknown on August 05, 2017, 02:37:03 PM
TECHNISCOPE frame is locked in.
Super 35 allows flexibility. When you shoot S35 you are exposing the ENTIRE film frame (Techniscope uses 1/2).
SO, theoreticall the aspect ration can be 1;33, 1;85, 2:35.
When these films were originally released on dvd or shown on tv they usually went out full-frame; so, you actually see considerably MORE in that version than in the theatrical one.

Techniscope films , on the other hand, have to be panned and scanned when transferred to home video. This is one reason people like Scorcese started using Super 35;  he hated seeing his Panavision framing cropped.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: stanton on August 06, 2017, 02:47:22 AM
TECHNISCOPE frame is locked in.
Super 35 allows flexibility. When you shoot S35 you are exposing the ENTIRE film frame (Techniscope uses 1/2).
SO, theoreticall the aspect ration can be 1;33, 1;85, 2:35.


I know, but the framing for Super 35 is still done for the theatrical 2,35:1 aspect ratio.
And then, there was no Super 35 available in the times of the SW, it is a newer format. The usual alternatives to Techniscope for Leone were then Cinemascope or Panavision, as long as he wanted to stay with 2,35:1.

And Leone did not think about the home video use when he made his westerns, because there was no home video then, and TV was mainly a competitor.
But he thought later about full frame home video releases when he chose the format for OUTA.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: mike siegel on August 06, 2017, 02:57:38 AM
Reminds me of the opening scene in RESERVOIR DOGS:  When I first saw it in 1992 I was puzzled be a shot that cut off a head (Keitel's?) - although speaking dialogue - in the restaurant scene. I am not sure whether this was deliberate, maybe an homage to PIERROT LE FOU (TechniScope) where such a shot appears in the first 10 minutes, or whether it was due to SUPER 35 (bad framing).


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: mike siegel on August 07, 2017, 03:18:24 PM
I love the old UA logo. Never saw that one before I guess... As for the color:
(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170807/kqpjj5rb.jpg) (http://www.directupload.net)
(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170807/azw678pt.jpg) (http://www.directupload.net)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Le Bon on August 07, 2017, 04:03:21 PM
First review here...

http://www.mondo-digital.com/goodbad.html


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on August 07, 2017, 05:00:44 PM
WTH? I expected the yellow in outdoor scenes, but why is the interior with Angel Eyes at the farm so blue?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on August 07, 2017, 05:09:17 PM
First review here...

http://www.mondo-digital.com/goodbad.html
Quote
Also included are a few brief "vignette" outtakes -- "Uno Due Tre" (40s) with Wallace, "Italian Lunch" (43s) with Eastwood, "New York Accent' (10s) with Wallace, and "Gun in Holster" (59s) with Wallace.
Who the hell is "Wallace"?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Paulo on August 08, 2017, 03:33:29 AM
Who the hell is "Wallace"?

Persumably Mario Brega's character, Cpl Wallace?

Looking at the review from Mondo, looks washed out to bejaysus to me... still yellow


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 08, 2017, 08:30:12 AM
"Wallace" probably means "Wallach," no?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 08, 2017, 08:53:24 AM
To conpare the colors, just look at the shot of Tuco in the new disc vs. the original MGM one. Original has a blue sky. New one looks like PISS   >:(

Yet another GBU disc failure   >:(


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on August 08, 2017, 09:45:28 PM
"Wallace" probably means "Wallach," no?
Of course. But I'm going to go with Paulo's suggestion so I can be disappointed when Mario Brega turns out to not be involved. ;)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Le Bon on August 09, 2017, 06:56:07 AM
It doesn't look good.  Hearing there are framing problems with the extras ported over from the extended edition  :(


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on August 09, 2017, 08:25:11 AM
Just so everyone knows, it's been confirmed that Kino used the 98 DVD as a cutting reference, instead of an actual 1967 international cut. That means their shorter version is not the cut Leone approved in 1967, its a "hybrid" cut that includes many shots from the Italian version, cuts some shots meant to be there, and completely (and needlessly) reorders the entire scene of the gunmen approaching Blondie's hotel room (something a home video editor decided to do in 1998, this reshuffling of the scene is now only on the 98 DVD and the kino disc). We repeatedly told them that the 98 DVD is NOT the 1967 international cut but they ignored us and are still falsely advertising the shorter version as "the original u.s. Theatrical cut". Quite simply, it is not. Disappointing that the home video market doesn't care about actually having a cut of GBU out there that is actually Leone's.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 09, 2017, 01:18:47 PM
Just so everyone knows, it's been confirmed that Kino used the 98 DVD as a cutting reference, instead of an actual 1967 international cut. That means their shorter version is not the cut Leone approved in 1967, its a "hybrid" cut that includes many shots from the Italian version, cuts some shots meant to be there, and completely (and needlessly) reorders the entire scene of the gunmen approaching Blondie's hotel room (something a home video editor decided to do in 1998, this reshuffling of the scene is now only on the 98 DVD and the kino disc). We repeatedly told them that the 98 DVD is NOT the 1967 international cut but they ignored us and are still falsely advertising the shorter version as "the original u.s. Theatrical cut". Quite simply, it is not. Disappointing that the home video market doesn't care about actually having a cut of GBU out there that is actually Leone's.

should I cancel my pre-order just as  a protest?

Honestly, if the SLWB members agree on a strict boycott of this Kino disc - and spread news of the boycott and let Kino know about it - maybe that'll be good for a) revenge purposes ; and b) making it clear to DVD/BRD companies that real fans won't tolerate falsehoods.

Waddaya say? If y'all commit to a boycott, I'll cancel my pre-order.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on August 09, 2017, 03:10:32 PM
I find it hard to advocate boycotting a release to which the great Mike Siegel has contributed. Also, the Tim Lucas commentary on the shorter cut may be interesting.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 09, 2017, 03:20:43 PM
I find it hard to advocate boycotting a release to which the great Mike Siegel has contributed to. Also, the Tim Lucas commentary on the shorter cut may be interesting.

A boycott is always painful. It's a question of priorities  ;)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on August 09, 2017, 03:23:24 PM
The history of GBU on home video suggests there will always be another edition--until the title stops being a cash cow. Better to signal to future producers that the market is still strong.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: mike siegel on August 09, 2017, 04:42:02 PM
I find it hard to advocate boycotting a release to which the great Mike Siegel has contributed. Also, the Tim Lucas commentary on the shorter cut may be interesting.

A funny man :).

But in general I think boycotting is a bit childish because the labels don't care a bit. My experience in 17 years working on DVD's. Even the bigger forums
like this one or Cinefacts in Germany won't make a significant difference at all. If they sell 30 or even 100,200 copies less... they don't care. A successful sale means 2000, 3000, 5000 or 10,000 copies and 99 % + of the regular buyers won't even know what we are talking about.
Most companies don't even (really) try to avoid the worst case scenario, a major mistake forcing them to replace the final product (technical
problems like out of sync, bad authoring or what have you.). Which would be easy if they'd send out 5 copies to dedicated fans who could test
them 100%. Any major fault would surface... instead I experienced a high number of discs where they had to replace thousands of discs...

Anyway :). Regarding this title (and GIU LA TESTA :( ) we have to fall back on privately made Blu-ray's, with right sound and colors... Unfortunately. So far.




Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: mike siegel on August 09, 2017, 04:43:19 PM
A funny man :).

But in general I think boycotting is a bit childish because the labels don't care a bit. My experience in 17 years working on DVD's. Even the bigger forums
like this one or Cinefacts in Germany won't make a significant difference at all. If they sell 30 or even 100,200 copies less... they don't care. A successful sale means 2000, 3000, 5000 or 10,000 copies and 99 % + of the regular buyers won't even know what we are talking about.
Most companies don't even (really) try to avoid the worst case scenario, a major mistake forcing them to replace the final product (technical
problems like out of sync, bad authoring or what have you.). Which would be easy if they'd send out 5 copies to dedicated fans who could test
them 100%. Any major fault would surface... instead I experienced a high number of discs where they had to replace thousands of discs...

Anyway :). Regarding this title (and GIU LA TESTA :( ) we have to fall back on privately made Blu-ray's, with right sound and colors... Unfortunately. So far.

I can't wait to see the final JUNIOR BONNER Blu-ray I co-produced with them. It SHOULD be flawless. Should.





Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 09, 2017, 05:25:11 PM
A funny man :).

But in general I think boycotting is a bit childish because the labels don't care a bit. My experience in 17 years working on DVD's. Even the bigger forums
like this one or Cinefacts in Germany won't make a significant difference at all. If they sell 30 or even 100,200 copies less... they don't care. A successful sale means 2000, 3000, 5000 or 10,000 copies and 99 % + of the regular buyers won't even know what we are talking about.
Most companies don't even (really) try to avoid the worst case scenario, a major mistake forcing them to replace the final product (technical
problems like out of sync, bad authoring or what have you.). Which would be easy if they'd send out 5 copies to dedicated fans who could test
them 100%. Any major fault would surface... instead I experienced a high number of discs where they had to replace thousands of discs...

Anyway :). Regarding this title (and GIU LA TESTA :( ) we have to fall back on privately made Blu-ray's, with right sound and colors... Unfortunately. So far.





If you're like me and prefer the longer version to the US theatrical version, the Special Edition DVD is fine


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on August 09, 2017, 05:55:50 PM
I can't wait to see the final JUNIOR BONNER Blu-ray I co-produced with them. It SHOULD be flawless. Should.

Now that's what I'm looking forward to  O0

If you're like me and prefer the longer version to the US theatrical version, the Special Edition DVD is fine

In my book, the only one really worth watching is the longer version minus the grotto scene, so I was never the target for this new release anyway. I'll stick with the most recent MGM blu-ray with mono audio until someone releases a version without the grotto scene so I don't have to skip it with my remote  ;D


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 09, 2017, 06:50:11 PM
Now that's what I'm looking forward to  O0

In my book, the only one really worth watching is the longer version minus the grotto scene, so I was never the target for this new release anyway. I'll stick with the most recent MGM blu-ray with mono audio until someone releases a version without the grotto scene so I don't have to skip it with my remote  ;D

I agree with you that the best version is longer minus grotto.

But to me, piss is not worth mono.

I'll take the DVD. If I want to hear Frayling's commentary, I'll go with original MGM BRD. Yes, I prefer red faces to piss.

Best BRD color is probably the Mondo, which does not have English audio and has the awful issue with the picture movement (is it called "grading"?) Yeah, we need someone to make a serious fan edit  ;)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 09, 2017, 07:09:17 PM

But in general I think boycotting is a bit childish because the labels don't care a bit. My experience in 17 years working on DVD's. Even the bigger forums
like this one or Cinefacts in Germany won't make a significant difference at all. If they sell 30 or even 100,200 copies less... they don't care. A successful sale means 2000, 3000, 5000 or 10,000 copies and 99 % + of the regular buyers won't even know what we are talking about.
Most companies don't even (really) try to avoid the worst case scenario, a major mistake forcing them to replace the final product (technical
problems like out of sync, bad authoring or what have you.). Which would be easy if they'd send out 5 copies to dedicated fans who could test
them 100%. Any major fault would surface... instead I experienced a high number of discs where they had to replace thousands of discs...


Is the SLWB really "one of the bigger forums"? Do we even have 20 members who post regularly (say, at least once a week)?

 In order to make a significant difference, a boycott would have to join with other forums and other social media groups, to get several several hundred hard-core fans who would have bought the disc to join.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on August 09, 2017, 08:14:05 PM
I agree with you that the best version is longer minus grotto.

But to me, piss is not worth mono.

I'll take the DVD. If I want to hear Frayling's commentary, I'll go with original MGM BRD. Yes, I prefer red faces to piss.

Best BRD color is probably the Mondo, which does not have English audio and has the awful issue with the picture movement) is it called "grading"?) Yeah, we need someone to make a serious fan edit  ;)

It's called "rolling shutter", basically instead of each frame being scanned as one whole piece, strips of the frame are scanned in segments, resulting in a very "digital" look, and the mondo disc has many instances of the "wobbling" effect this causes. Also, each of the glue splices on the negative causes every edit to "jump".


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on August 09, 2017, 08:16:55 PM
should I cancel my pre-order just as  a protest?

Honestly, if the SLWB members agree on a strict boycott of this Kino disc - and spread news of the boycott and let Kino know about it - maybe that'll be good for a) revenge purposes ; and b) making it clear to DVD/BRD companies that real fans won't tolerate falsehoods.

Waddaya say? If y'all commit to a boycott, I'll cancel my pre-order.

I appreciate the sentiment, but I'm not calling for a boycott, just want people to know what they are buying since Kino is lying on amazon about it being the original cut. I'm still gonna buy it for the extras.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 09, 2017, 08:31:58 PM
It's called "rolling shutter", basically instead of each frame being scanned as one whole piece, strips of the frame are scanned in segments, resulting in a very "digital" look, and the mondo disc has many instances of the "wobbling" effect this causes. Also, each of the glue splices on the negative causes every edit to "jump".

Thanks for the explanation.

This was soooooooooo bad as to make the movie unwatchable. I shut it off after three minutes and never watched it again. I am surprised they did not recall it and issue a new version (and give it for free to all who had purchased the old one). Yes, it's that awful.
If they ever get their shit together and issue a new, fixed version, I hope they offer English audio.

For those who want a brown/yellow look, the Mondo provides that, but done in a much better way than the recent "restorations."


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 09, 2017, 08:43:08 PM
Quote from: MisterLime;13947783
We also have the 4K/UHD rights to the trilogy, but decided not to release GBU on 4K/UHD, not because of the cost of producing such discs, but because we didn't want to go through this allover again. If the release ends up doing really well… ?

No thanks!


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 09, 2017, 08:53:03 PM
Yeah, we need someone to make a serious fan edit  ;)

Agreed. At this point only the fans can do this film justice.

Make Sergio proud. ;)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on August 09, 2017, 10:05:35 PM
If someone starts a crowdfunding effort to do a decent fan edit, I will contribute. :)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 09, 2017, 11:21:20 PM
Agreed. At this point only the fans can do this film justice.

Make Sergio proud. ;)

Lil Brutto, can you please either replace your profile pic or delete it?  Right now there is a big fat ugly graphic that says that the picture is unavailable.

Thanks  :)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 09, 2017, 11:28:43 PM
If someone starts a crowdfunding effort to do a decent fan edit, I will contribute. :)

 So would I. I am sure that many people here world. The problem is that this sory thing cannot be public, and crowdfunding efforts by definition have to be public. Needless to say, if the company that owns the rights to the movie wants to, they can bring a copyright-infringement lawsuit against whomever is doing the fan edit, particularly if discs are being sold or traded or whatever.

Of course, if the fan edit is sold/traded only to people who  have purchased an official disc  the company really shouldn't care. But they may. This thing should be done privately through emails and private messages, not publicly.

 I have zero technical expertise, but I am all for contributing to a fan edit if someone wants to undertake the project.
We'd have to work out the details. I assume that it is impossible to get the color of the Mondo the Blu-ray disc without the problems that that image has. So I'd say that for the longer version, we use the image from the MGM DVD, the English mono audio (available on this Kino release and on the piss BRD from 2014. If there is any possible way to add the Frayling commentary (currently available on all BRD's but not the DVD) that would be awesome  O0 O0


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: stanton on August 10, 2017, 02:47:46 AM
I don't know, I turned the colors a bit down when watching the the 2014 disc, and I was satisfied with what I got. Very satisfied, but actually I'm not that much interested in picture quality. It's an aspect, but not the most important one for enjoying a film.

In the end it is only a matter of time and the next GBU HD-Remaster will be released, and another one, and another one. They appear faster than my need to rewatch GBU, and as I said at the moment I don't need more than I have.
And skipping the grotto scene is not the biggest task in the known universe.

And regarding this or that perfect or not so perfect fan version (aka Tijuana version), I'm pretty sure that there are lots of them already circling amongst fans.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on August 10, 2017, 08:07:35 AM
It's called "rolling shutter", basically instead of each frame being scanned as one whole piece, strips of the frame are scanned in segments, resulting in a very "digital" look, and the mondo disc has many instances of the "wobbling" effect this causes. Also, each of the glue splices on the negative causes every edit to "jump".

Thanks for the technical info - very interesting O0


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on August 10, 2017, 10:54:31 AM
And regarding this or that perfect or not so perfect fan version (aka Tijuana version), I'm pretty sure that there are lots of them already circling amongst fans.
But of what quality? I think what we're talking about here is something comparable to HD.

The colors are one concern, but the actual tampering with Leone's editing is a greater worry. As Jordan Krug has shown us, all the video versions of GBU since 98 have had the sequencing of Blondie's gun-assembly scene re-worked. There are other problems as well. I, for one, am not a happy camper.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 10, 2017, 11:45:30 AM
Lil Brutto, can you please either replace your profile pic or delete it?  Right now there is a big fat ugly graphic that says that the picture is unavailable.

Thanks  :)

Fixed. Thanks.

...I assume that it is impossible to get the color of the Mondo the Blu-ray disc without the problems that that image has. So I'd say that for the longer version, we use the image from the MGM DVD, the English mono audio (available on this Kino release and on the piss BRD from 2014. If there is any possible way to add the Frayling commentary (currently available on all BRD's but not the DVD) that would be awesome  O0 O0

A very skilled fan has already created the International Cut using the Mondo BD image as the primary source and original mono track from the MGM LD. It was released in early 2016 and is available online if you know where to look.

Project Info:

The goal of this project is to quickly recreate the International Cut/US Theatrical Cut (IC/TC) of The Good, The Bad and the Ugly in High Definition.

The 4K Blu-ray (BD) was rejected as the video source because even though it had the best detail, the colors, contrast, gamma, shadows, highlights are ruined beyond the ability to successfully fix. So the wonderful Italian Mondo BD was used instead. The movie cut is synced to the 1993 laserdisc which is the last time the IC was on video (not counting VHS). Even the 1998 DVD/LD is a restoration, incorporating shots from the Italian cut never seen in the IC.

Video:
The Italian transfer from the Mondo BD cut down to sync with the 1993 laserdisc of the International/US Theatrical cut. Additional shots from the US 4K and older Extended Edition BD.

Audio:
The PCM mono from the 1993 laserdisc in PCM 2.0 format.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: stanton on August 10, 2017, 12:42:21 PM
I'm sure that a lot of fans have combined the English mono from the 2014 disc with the Mondo Blu.

Also the Mondo here with German audio.

I own several versions of films which are officially not available yet, or which were for a long time not available on disc. And some which were never released anywhere.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on August 10, 2017, 01:15:19 PM
But of what quality? I think what we're talking about here is something comparable to HD.

The colors are one concern, but the actual tampering with Leone's editing is a greater worry. As Jordan Krug has shown us, all the video versions of GBU since 98 have had the sequencing of Blondie's gun-assembly scene re-worked. There are other problems as well. I, for one, am not a happy camper.

Thanks for the support - just want to clarify one thing, the 98 DVD is the only one (until now) that had the reshuffled and recut version of the scene. The extended cut on blu has always had the longer Italian version of the scene. What kino did was copy the 98 DVD shot for shot, and so they replicated the mistakes of that one version. If they had literally gone one release back to laserdisc (for cutting reference) they would have avoided this issue.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: uncknown on August 10, 2017, 02:16:05 PM
".......scene in RESERVOIR DOGS:  When I first saw it in 1992 I was puzzled be a shot that cut off a head (Keitel's?) - although speaking dialogue - in the restaurant scene. I am not sure whether this was deliberate, maybe an homage to PIERROT LE FOU (TechniScope) where such a shot appears in the first 10 minutes, or whether it was due to SUPER 35 (bad framing)...."

Funny you should mention that scene!!
I was at a video store when that film came out  and I got into a big argument with the owner, also a film buff and aspiring director, about my preference for the full-frame version>
I kept yelling "his head is cut of, his head is cut off'.
He thought the framing was "great"!

go figger


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: uncknown on August 10, 2017, 02:22:12 PM
Thanks for the technical info - very interesting O0

One of the reasons films went from being PROJECTED in 2:35 to 2:39 was to hide the splice marks.
2:39 isn't wider, it's a bit narrower so it hides the splices.
brm


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on August 10, 2017, 06:58:02 PM
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Good-the-Bad-and-the-Ugly-Blu-ray/175359/#Review
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Good-the-Bad-and-the-Ugly-Blu-ray/175359/#Screenshots


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 10, 2017, 07:53:55 PM
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Good-the-Bad-and-the-Ugly-Blu-ray/175359/#Review
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Good-the-Bad-and-the-Ugly-Blu-ray/175359/#Screenshots

 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(


They fucked up the bonus features on the extended disc. I  don't know whether to laugh or cry.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: T.H. on August 13, 2017, 11:48:42 PM
Leone's movies were mishandled in so many different ways that nothing surprises me. I'm sure this release will at least meet my now tempered expectations.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 14, 2017, 06:38:14 PM
Amazon billed me today for the pre-order that I made in June. Price was $19.99. ( The price may be the only good thing about this release  ;) ) it is expected to arrive between August 21 and August 25


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on August 16, 2017, 02:07:37 PM
Anyone looking for the specific differences between Kino's shorter cut and the actual 1967 international cut can find them here:

http://theeditroomfloor.blogspot.ca/2017/08/the-gbu-kino-disc-has-arrived.html


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: uncknown on August 16, 2017, 02:31:31 PM
I think we should start calling it the "English language version' (ELV) instead of "International cut"


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on August 16, 2017, 03:52:03 PM
I think we should start calling it the "English language version' (ELV) instead of "International cut"

I understand that it gets confusing, but the 1967 version was created for all countries outside of Italy, specifically North America/England, France, Germany, and Spain. Leone even supervised the French dubbing himself.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: stanton on August 17, 2017, 02:42:59 AM


Does this mean all the flip cuts are in?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: stanton on August 17, 2017, 02:49:54 AM
I think we should start calling it the "English language version' (ELV) instead of "International cut"

I call it the UA version, cause UA sold it world wide except for Italy. It was not a language specific version.

So there is the Leone version, the Italian one with 178 min (without the grotto scene), and never released on DVD or Blu, and the UA version, the cut one with 162 min (instead of 161 min)

And then we have the 2 home video versions, the MGM version with also 178 min, but still different to the original Italian version, and the Italian one with 175 min.

(What we really need is in fact the Stanton cut, aka as the real deal, aka as the most reasonable one, aka as the most healthy one)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on August 17, 2017, 04:39:40 AM
I call it the UA version, cause UA sold it world wide except for Italy. It was not a language specific version.

So there is the Leone version, the Italian one with 178 min (without the grotto scene), and never released on DVD or Blu, and the UA version, the cut one with 162 min (instead of 161 min)

And then we have the 2 home video versions, the MGM version with also 178 min, but still different to the original Italian version, and the Italian one with 175 min.

(What we really need is in fact the Stanton cut, aka as the real deal, aka as the most reasonable one, aka as the most healthy one)

Well...Leone also created the international cut, so calling the Italian cut "Leone's" makes it seem like he had nothing to do with the shorter version. The 178 minute version is usually called the "extended". As for the "Stanton", yes that sounds ideal :)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: stanton on August 17, 2017, 05:58:33 AM
Even if he really helped to cut the shorter version (which makes more sense than let other people do the butcher's job, if it is inevitable), his version remains the original Italian one. And calling that one an extended cut is absolutely wrong.

Problem is that somehow in that case the shorter version is not a weaker version. But, apart from the few segments, which the Stanton cut (aka the Pope's favourite version) leaves rightly out, I love every of the scenes missing in the 162 min version, and want never again watch the film without these scenes, but they are bought of course with 15 more min of film length, and films should never be longer than necessary. So this is one of the few cases in which both, the longer and the shorter version are equally perfect.

Now, what's with these flip cuts? They are all in?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on August 17, 2017, 07:30:14 AM
Anyone looking for the specific differences between Kino's shorter cut and the actual 1967 international cut can find them here:

http://theeditroomfloor.blogspot.ca/2017/08/the-gbu-kino-disc-has-arrived.html

Thanks Jordan - great work!


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on August 17, 2017, 09:38:16 AM
the Stanton cut (aka the Pope's favourite version)
Anyone else notice there's someone on this board who is just--how should I put it?--just a little bit too full of himself? Just a teeny bit? Anyone else see that?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: stanton on August 18, 2017, 04:23:13 AM
Don't make me responsible for what the Pope thinks and does. I'm not even catholic ...


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: noodles_leone on August 18, 2017, 04:48:48 AM
Anyone else notice there's someone on this board who is just--how should I put it?--just a little bit too full of himself? Just a teeny bit? Anyone else see that?

I thought this feature was explicitly required during the board's registration process.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 19, 2017, 07:15:56 PM
I received the disc today from Amazon.

 For the cover of the disc, they used the re-release white poster "for three men the Civil War wasn't hell it was practice" -  which, by the way, is a much better poster than the original release poster.



Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 20, 2017, 02:34:33 AM
OK, I guess I'm the first one here who has seen (part of) the new disc.

BTW, here's Beaver http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film6/blu-ray_reviews_77/the_good_the_bad_and_the_ugly_blu-ray.htm

I watched the extended cut, until Blondie's title "The Good" comes up, just after he says, "Such ingratitude after all the times I've saved your life," which is just under 30 minutes into the film.

Then I went back and watched (much of) the same part of the movie on the MGM SE DVD, which was the first American release of the extended cut (I believe it was released in 2003 or 2004; the version I have is "The Sergio Leone Anthology" boxset from 2007, with the 3 Dollars films and DYS.)

The reason I watched that DVD was to refresh my memory of what the movie previously looked like, as a comparison to the new disc, as I have not watched the film in quite some time. I don't have two TV's side by side to compare, so I had to watch first one then the other. I chose the MGM DVD because I have long believed it probably is the best version of the movie to watch. As we've discussed extensively, the first MGM BRD had DNR and the skin tones are red; the Mondo has the "rolling shutter" issue; and the 2014 BRD is the infamous piss one. Of course, the DVD image isn't nearly as sharp as a BRD would be – and it's somewhat glaring after watching BRD's – but I guess that I prefer a DVD with good-looking colors to a sharp BRD with phony colors.

Anyway, bottom line is that from the portions of the disc I compared, the MGM SE DVD has more of a brown look, whereas the KL BRD has more of a golden look. (I am not certain whether or not it is as bad as the 2014 piss version – I only watched that version once for about 10 seconds before turning it off in anger.) All I can say for sure is that the KL clearly has more of a golden color than the brown of the 2014 disc. Which is more accurate? I can't be certain – the MGM SE DVD is my personal reference for the movie – it's the first version of the movie I saw (MANY times), and I use that version when watching then movie (unless I want to hear Frayling's commentary, which is only available on the BRD's).

The very beginning, opening credits, there is a white screen, plus some red. In the KL, the "white" is actually a light blue. Very bad.

Another thing I noticed – I particularly paid attention to this in the scene with Angel Eyes at Stevens's farm: The grain dots are flashing. I don't have the technical knowledge/language to describe this properly, but it's very grating. Normally, the grain dots are just THERE, on the screen; but in this movie – particularly in this scene – they are FLASHING.

There is one particular shot that I noticed is nicer on this film: Just after Blondie, in the loft, says, "known as 'The Rat,' " there is a shot from Blondie's eye-view looking down on the town square, with Tuco hanging from the tree surrounded by the townspeople. In that shot, with the golden color and sharpness of the KL BRD, it looks a lot better IMO than the brown/unsharp MGM DVD. But again, there's always the drawback of the DVD being not as sharp as a BRD, and we'll have to deal with that until a proper BRD if made of this film.

Bottom line: We are still waiting for a good BRD of GBU......


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on August 20, 2017, 03:19:55 AM
Drink, thanks.  O0


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: noodles_leone on August 20, 2017, 07:49:38 AM
Thanks !  O0

I'm still not buying this one.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Le Bon on August 24, 2017, 02:22:45 PM
Did the original 1967 theatrical cut have the three characters intertitles (Good, Bad Ugly) that come up on their intro and exit scenes, in English?
When I first saw the film which was on UK TV in 1976, they were in Italian.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Jordan Krug on August 24, 2017, 07:59:52 PM
Did the original 1967 theatrical cut have the three characters intertitles (Good, Bad Ugly) that come up on their intro and exit scenes, in English?
When I first saw the film which was on UK TV in 1976, they were in Italian.

Yes, the English cut had those three titles in English. Each international territory was given virtually the same print with the credit sequence and those titles as separate elements. Interestingly, the length of those titles varies depending on how the distributor decided to splice them in..the Spanish DVD for instance has the longest tuco intro title out of all the cuts, even the Italian. It has about a second more footage at the beginning of the shot resulting in the action of tuco running towards the window being repeated.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 24, 2017, 11:40:08 PM
Yes, the English cut had those three titles in English. Each international territory was given virtually the same print with the credit sequence and those titles as separate elements. Interestingly, the length of those titles varies depending on how the distributor decided to splice them in..the Spanish DVD for instance has the longest tuco intro title out of all the cuts, even the Italian. It has about a second more footage at the beginning of the shot resulting in the action of tuco running towards the window being repeated.


When does Tuco run toward the window? We first see him as he is crashing through the window; the frame freezes with "The Ugly" and then he runs away from the window.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Le Bon on August 25, 2017, 04:32:52 AM
Yes, the English cut had those three titles in English. Each international territory was given virtually the same print with the credit sequence and those titles as separate elements. Interestingly, the length of those titles varies depending on how the distributor decided to splice them in..the Spanish DVD for instance has the longest tuco intro title out of all the cuts, even the Italian. It has about a second more footage at the beginning of the shot resulting in the action of tuco running towards the window being repeated.


How did the UK TV versions come to have them in Italian?
They screened the Int cut not the UK cinema one which had the gunsmith and Van Cleef and the prison camp commandant scenes cut out.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on August 25, 2017, 07:54:38 AM
It has about a second more footage at the beginning of the shot resulting in the action of tuco running towards the window being repeated.

You mean you see it twice - kinda like a replay? Doesn't that look really odd?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 25, 2017, 11:07:51 AM
The Italian RAI TV broadcast presents the Italian home release cut (to be expected) yet English opening credits are used (very unexpected). ???

It appears the TV prints were cobbled together using whatever elements were available/provided. Some of the early home release versions (VHS and LD) were sourced from these elements as well. For example, the 1990 MGM laserdisc had Italian onscreen titles yet it was the International Cut. There is an 80's Warner VHS that had Italian onscreen titles when the 3 characters were introduced but used English titles at the end. The 80s CBS LD used an Italian print that was crudely edited to conform to the International Cut. It has a crude cut where the first few seconds of the "6 is the perfect number" scene is visible before it cuts to Tuco in the boxcar, presumably to allow for the music to play to its entirety as the train leaves the station. These are some examples off the top of my head.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Cusser on August 25, 2017, 11:49:13 AM
Did the original 1967 theatrical cut have the three characters intertitles (Good, Bad Ugly) that come up on their intro and exit scenes, in English?
When I first saw the film which was on UK TV in 1976, they were in Italian.

In USA, yes when I saw it in 1968.

However, I have seen a version that had the "intertitles" in Italian even though it was an English-language version; can't remember if that was at a midnight showing in 1979 or on TV.  When I saw the restored version in the theater for UA's 90th anniversary festival in the 2000s, the intertitles were in English.

"From silent era gems (D.W. Griffith’s Broken Blossoms, Buster Keaton’s The General) to westerns (John Ford’s Stagecoach, Sergio Leone’s The Good, The Bad and the Ugly) to 1970s classics (Woody Allen’s Annie Hall, Hal Ashby’s Coming Home), United Artists has been a major player through Hollywood’s diverse eras. Many believe the studio truly hit its stride in 1951, when lawyers Arthur Krim and Robert Benjamin took over the studio for a 27-year run, producing both venerable franchises (James Bond, The Pink Panther) and beloved classics from Hollywood’s greatest moviemakers, including Billy Wilder (Some Like It Hot, The Apartment), John Huston (The Misfits) and John Frankenheimer (The Manchurian Candidate).

The famed New York Film Forum will host an extensive five-week retrospective this spring in celebration of the studio’s 90th anniversary, offering movie fans the chance to revisit an eclectic selection of classics from United Artists’ deep canon. The 54-film festival will kick off with a New York-themed double bill: Martin Scorsese’s Raging Bull (1980), in a new 35-mm print, followed by Woody Allen’s Manhattan (1979). The retrospective programming encompasses a vast variety: West Side Story, Midnight Cowboy, Last Tango in Paris and Sweet Smell of Success are just a few of the films on the docket. 007 fans should take special note of the festival’s Bond-themed evening, which will not only include a new 35 mm print of Goldfinger but a sing-along with the classic theme song. The retrospective concludes May 1st with a Charlie Chaplin double bill of his classics City Lights and Modern Times."


https://www.moviemaker.com/articles-moviemaking/united-artists-90th-anniversary-with-film-forum-retrospective-20080318/




Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Le Bon on August 27, 2017, 03:44:42 AM
The Italian RAI TV broadcast presents the Italian home release cut (to be expected) yet English opening credits are used (very unexpected). ???

It appears the TV prints were cobbled together using whatever elements were available/provided. Some of the early home release versions (VHS and LD) were sourced from these elements as well. For example, the 1990 MGM laserdisc had Italian onscreen titles yet it was the International Cut. There is an 80's Warner VHS that had Italian onscreen titles when the 3 characters were introduced but used English titles at the end. The 80s CBS LD used an Italian print that was crudely edited to conform to the International Cut. It has a crude cut where the first few seconds of the "6 is the perfect number" scene is visible before it cuts to Tuco in the boxcar, presumably to allow for the music to play to its entirety as the train leaves the station. These are some examples off the top of my head.


That's interesting about the CBS LD. In the UK an early VHS by Intervision had the same crude cut you mentioned.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 27, 2017, 09:29:51 AM
In USA, yes when I saw it in 1968.

However, I have seen a version that had the "intertitles" in Italian even though it was an English-language version; can't remember if that was at a midnight showing in 1979 or on TV.  When I saw the restored version in the theater for UA's 90th anniversary festival in the 2000s, the intertitles were in English.

"From silent era gems (D.W. Griffith’s Broken Blossoms, Buster Keaton’s The General) to westerns (John Ford’s Stagecoach, Sergio Leone’s The Good, The Bad and the Ugly) to 1970s classics (Woody Allen’s Annie Hall, Hal Ashby’s Coming Home), United Artists has been a major player through Hollywood’s diverse eras. Many believe the studio truly hit its stride in 1951, when lawyers Arthur Krim and Robert Benjamin took over the studio for a 27-year run, producing both venerable franchises (James Bond, The Pink Panther) and beloved classics from Hollywood’s greatest moviemakers, including Billy Wilder (Some Like It Hot, The Apartment), John Huston (The Misfits) and John Frankenheimer (The Manchurian Candidate).

The famed New York Film Forum will host an extensive five-week retrospective this spring in celebration of the studio’s 90th anniversary, offering movie fans the chance to revisit an eclectic selection of classics from United Artists’ deep canon. The 54-film festival will kick off with a New York-themed double bill: Martin Scorsese’s Raging Bull (1980), in a new 35-mm print, followed by Woody Allen’s Manhattan (1979). The retrospective programming encompasses a vast variety: West Side Story, Midnight Cowboy, Last Tango in Paris and Sweet Smell of Success are just a few of the films on the docket. 007 fans should take special note of the festival’s Bond-themed evening, which will not only include a new 35 mm print of Goldfinger but a sing-along with the classic theme song. The retrospective concludes May 1st with a Charlie Chaplin double bill of his classics City Lights and Modern Times."


https://www.moviemaker.com/articles-moviemaking/united-artists-90th-anniversary-with-film-forum-retrospective-20080318/




That retrospective article is from 2008  :)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on August 28, 2017, 10:57:44 PM
In USA, yes when I saw it in 1968.

However, I have seen a version that had the "intertitles" in Italian even though it was an English-language version; can't remember if that was at a midnight showing in 1979 or on TV. 
I saw it too. It was on TV.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 28, 2017, 11:28:48 PM
That's interesting about the CBS LD. In the UK an early VHS by Intervision had the same crude cut you mentioned.

This one?

http://www.videocollector.co.uk/good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-the/30150


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Le Bon on August 29, 2017, 02:47:13 AM
This one?

http://www.videocollector.co.uk/good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-the/30150

Yes that's the one.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 31, 2017, 01:16:25 AM
I just watched the beginning of the "theatrical cut" (until after the second time Blondie shoots Tuco off the noose; approximately 27 minutes in).

I watched with the commentary by Tim Lucas. His commentary is SHIT.

Lucas violates my first rule of commentaries: You better sound like  you are speaking naturally, rather than reading directly off pre-written notes. His voice is not great. Every time an actor appears onscreen for the first time, Lucas proceeds to recite what seems like the actor's entire filmography. Yeah, he spends lotsa time just naming movies. When Angel Eyes goes to Baker's room, Lucas says that on the chair are Union cap and shirt; it's Confederate!
Lucas says that the opening ghost town set was "a village in Tabernas" - I trust Frayling, who says the ghost town was built by Carlo Simi & Co. in a remote area.


One great thing Lucas does: He  read the full text that the executioner reads aloud for Tuco's hanging in the second town – the audience cannot hear the full text, because part of it is drowned out by Angel Eyes's conversation with the half-soldier and the woman in the stagecoach. (Lucas does credit the person who showed him the full text). It is absolutely hilarious.
Oh - he also astutely notes that Stevens is not to be trusted - because he wears both belt and suspenders ;D

Lucas cites Peter Hanley's book - for instance, in  identifying the location of the Stevens farm and citing an interview Hanley did with Chelo Alonso - but he makes no mention of Frayling in the first 27 minutes. I am sure that lots of his info comes from Frayling. For example, he says that Leone insisted his inspiration in casting Wallach as Tuco did NOT come from his role as Calvera in THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN - that is a tidbit Frayling always mentions. Maybe he credits Frayling later on;  I sure as hell won't listen to the rest of this shitty commentary.

Bottom line: Anytime I want to watch the movie with commentary, it'll be Frayling's.

And, once again, the overall bottom line: We're still waiting for a great BRD version of GBU.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on August 31, 2017, 08:44:17 AM
The 80s CBS LD used an Italian print that was crudely edited to conform to the International Cut. It has a crude cut where the first few seconds of the "6 is the perfect number" scene is visible before it cuts to Tuco in the boxcar, presumably to allow for the music to play to its entirety as the train leaves the station.

If only they hadn't bothered... Such butchering was far more common back then than it is now, but we haven't completely escaped it.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 31, 2017, 09:32:37 AM
Here's a link to a video captured on my phone:

https://vimeo.com/231886345

Password: GBU


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: mike siegel on August 31, 2017, 01:57:17 PM
Thanks!

Oh boy, never saw that one before. Thank heavens.
In fact I saw the right version about 95% when I saw the film over the last 35 years. Usually
I can take it when a guy walks up 5 steps instead of 6, but this is a "moment". And great
films are made of "moments". I remember Sollima speaking for our documentary, about those
kind of people working at the wrong place, messing up art. It was sad but also funny: "...meantime in a cave,
near Neanderthal, some cretin, with limited brains..."


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Lil Brutto on August 31, 2017, 02:03:44 PM
That's interesting about the CBS LD. In the UK an early VHS by Intervision had the same crude cut you mentioned.

Le Bon, do you happen to have a copy of the Intervision VHS?

I've been looking into this a bit over the past few days. The early LD/VHS/beta tapes are a curiosity because of the fact that they sometimes provide important clues about the history of the handling of the film by the companies prior to MGM's "homogenization" in the late 90s/early 00s with their Extended Edition.

According to IMDB the film was released by several companies in the early 80's:

(http://i68.tinypic.com/iqer2h.png)

Lost Media Archive provides some more info on the (small) distributors, which might explain why that crude cut is seen on the UK Intervision VHS (1980) and CBS/Fox LD (1983):

(http://i68.tinypic.com/34qu243.png)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Novecento on August 31, 2017, 02:53:58 PM
Here's a link to a video captured on my phone:

https://vimeo.com/231886345

Password: GBU

Wow - you weren't kidding. That is so weird and amateurish looking :o

Usually I can take it when a guy walks up 5 steps instead of 6, but this is a "moment". And great
films are made of "moments". I remember Sollima speaking for our documentary, about those
kind of people working at the wrong place, messing up art. It was sad but also funny: "...meantime in a cave,
near Neanderthal, some cretin, with limited brains..."

Even taking into account showtimes needing to fit financial requirements or supposed attention spans etc etc, examples like this still make zero sense.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: stanton on September 01, 2017, 02:50:36 AM
Here is a detailed comparison between the Lorber Blu and the US Laserdisc. Only in German, but with images and time differences:

http://www.schnittberichte.com/schnittbericht.php?ID=320546

I had asked about the flip cuts twice, without getting an answer. There were 2 in the international version, right? One is in, the other not?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Le Bon on September 01, 2017, 07:26:05 AM
Le Bon, do you happen to have a copy of the Intervision VHS?


I don't have a copy. A friend I have been emailing has it. I can ask him if there's anything you want to know about it.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Cusser on September 01, 2017, 08:05:51 AM
I am sure that lots of his info comes from Frayling. For example, he says that Leone insisted his inspiration in casting Wallach as Tuco did NOT come from his role as Calvera in THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN - that is a tidbit Frayling always mentions.

Even if Leone really liked the playfulness of Wallach in How the West was Won, there sure was a ton of Calvera from Magnificent Seven in Tuco.  Leone had to have seen Magnificent Seven over a dozen times ....


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Lil Brutto on September 01, 2017, 10:28:44 AM
I don't have a copy. A friend I have been emailing has it. I can ask him if there's anything you want to know about it.
ideally a capture of the VHS would be great. If that's not a possibility then I'd like to confirm that it comes from the same source as the CBS/Fox LD. (Although that crude cut is probably enough verification). I can send you a list of distinguishing features of the CBS/Fox LD that he could look for on the Intervision VHS.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: dave jenkins on September 01, 2017, 10:56:51 AM
One great thing Lucas does: He  read the full text that the executioner reads aloud for Tuco's hanging in the second town – the audience cannot hear the full text, because part of it is drowned out by Angel Eyes's conversation with the half-soldier and the woman in the stagecoach. (Lucas does credit the person who showed him the full text). It is absolutely hilarious.
I wonder if this is a translation of the Italian script, or if Mickey Knox wrote it all off his own bat.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Lil Brutto on September 01, 2017, 11:10:56 AM
That's a good question. Although it won't shed any light on this, we had a couple of people fluent in Italian and French provide a direct translation of the dialogue of the film in their respective languages. (We also had the French language track translated because Leone was fluent in French and oversaw its development.) Surprisingly, at first glance there seems to very little divergence in the details as compared to the English dialogue, which suggests that Mikey Knox did not stray from the original Italian dialogue too much. I'll start another thread about this when I've completed my analysis.

I'm also curious how many takes were required for the actor who read out the list of charges to NOT burst out laughing.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Le Bon on September 01, 2017, 12:30:00 PM
ideally a capture of the VHS would be great. If that's not a possibility then I'd like to confirm that it comes from the same source as the CBS/Fox LD. (Although that crude cut is probably enough verification). I can send you a list of distinguishing features of the CBS/Fox LD that he could look for on the Intervision VHS.

I'll see if he can get a capture of the crude cut and if you send the list to me I will ask him to compare it.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Lil Brutto on September 01, 2017, 01:14:01 PM
Great. I'll get back to you with the list in the next few days. Thanks.  O0


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Le Bon on September 18, 2017, 12:51:38 PM
Picture quality wise, how does the Laserdisc compare to the Mondo.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on October 03, 2017, 08:12:21 PM
Has anyone other than me bought the new Kino Lorber BRD of GBU that is the subject of this thread?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: mike siegel on October 04, 2017, 02:24:05 AM
Well I didn't buy it, but I have it of course
since I worked on it. Right now I'm working
on the new FISTFUL release (supplements,
I have nothing to do with the presentation
of the films...)


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: drinkanddestroy on October 04, 2017, 03:08:42 AM
Well I didn't buy it, but I have it of course
since I worked on it. Right now I'm working
on the new FISTFUL release (supplements,
I have nothing to do with the presentation
of the films...)


Did you watch the GBU?

I just wanted to know if anyone else had it, so that the board members weren’t only relying on my review in deciding whether (not to) purchase it.

Main question is this: the 2017 BRD definitely looks yellower than the original MGM DVD and BRD, but is it AS yellow as the 2014 version? I don’t know, because I only watched the 2014 version once for a few seconds and turned it off in anger and never watched it again.
One thing that really irritates me about the yellow in this 2017 release is that the sky doesn’t look blue. In previous versions of the movie, the sky looks a realistic blue.

My guess - and this is TOTALLY a guess - is that the 2017 disc retains some but not all of the piss; it’s crappy yellow but not AS yellow as the 2014 version. Can anyone confirm this?


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: cigar joe on October 04, 2017, 04:35:17 AM
I've said this before and I've tried back then (on this board) to find which review I read it in (I cut clippings and saved the ones that I had bought, out of newspapers, magazines, etc., etc.), and remember, I saw these film upon initial release myself, and yes the skies were always blue.  However one reviewer did mention that the film had a more "golden" mediterranean sun than American Westerns. So there must have been some element of gold in the original presentation. This piss yellow you mention sounds too excessive. Watching these films in a Times Square theater on a huge screen I can assure you they weren't "piss" yellow, but they weren't a perfect match to the looks of a typical American Western either.



Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Le Bon on October 04, 2017, 12:39:30 PM
I don't have the Kino but a friend who does tells me of a music track mistake in the desert scene when Blondie Collapses and Tuco dismounts. The long chord in the Italian print is in the Kino Theatrical cut which it shouldn't be.

I have compared a few versions and found that the chord starts when Tuco dismounts in my Italian TV version and in the 2004 Extended cut it starts on the first close up of Blondie's face. It sounds different as well. The Italian version is more of a drone sound and the 2004 has a higher 'tension' pitch.


Title: Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017
Post by: Cusser on October 05, 2017, 08:15:12 AM
I saw these film upon initial release myself, and yes the skies were always blue. 

I also saw these all on initial US release as teenager; none of us noticed anything off on the color.  In fact, we had no idea at the time that these were actually filmed in Spain, but we did wonder why there were so many Italian actors in them !