Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Once Upon A Time In America => Topic started by: dave jenkins on June 26, 2021, 04:25:56 PM

Title: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: dave jenkins on June 26, 2021, 04:25:56 PM
In a recent podcast, Quentin Tarantino took issue with Leone's final film:
Quote
I talked myself into thinking it was a masterpiece when it came out and walked around for twenty years talking about it like a masterpiece. Now I don't feel that it is that.
He cited "weird casting choices that don't quite work, and some dramatic stuff that doesn't work" as the principal reasons for his reassessment of the film. However, he was careful to state he thought Robert De Niro was "fantastic" in it.

Tarantino also said he saw the film multiple times when it was first released, both in the truncated studio version, and in Leone's preferred cut. He claims to be able to defend both versions of the film.
Quote
There are things about the studio cut that I actually like more than the Leone cut, and things in the Leone cut I like more than in the studio cut.

QT's remarks came at the tail end of a podcast he did for the New Beverly Cinema, the Hollywood cinema he owns and programs for. The theme of the podcast was favorite final films by directors with substantial careers. The hosts, knowing QTs tastes, were surprised when Once Upon a Time in America, the final film of the great Italian director Sergio Leone, wasn't one of the titles chosen. When asked about it, QT made the responses given above.

The podcast was posted on June 1, 2021. To hear the podcast in full go to https://purecinemapodcast.libsyn.com/ The Leone comments begin at about the three-hour-and-six-minute mark.
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: noodles_leone on June 30, 2021, 02:49:41 AM
He must have changed his opinion in the past few years, because he seemed pretty admirative in the little doc that's on the different video editions.
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: dave jenkins on June 30, 2021, 10:29:00 AM
The only QT opinion that's permanent is the one about his own self-regard.
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: T.H. on July 03, 2021, 01:02:21 PM
I don't know what I found more surprising, the OUATIA diss or that he hasn't seen Terror in a Texas Town.

OUATIA is not a perfect movie the way that GBU and OUATITW are, but it is one of the greatest cinematic achievements -- flaws be damned.
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: dave jenkins on July 03, 2021, 05:39:47 PM
OUATIA is not a perfect movie the way that GBU and OUATITW are, but it is one of the greatest cinematic achievements -- flaws be damned.
Well, YEAH. QT is just being petulant. He junks OUATIA in favor of 5 other vastly inferior films just so he can parade his knowledge of lesser-known flicks. What an ass.
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: drinkanddestroy on September 30, 2021, 07:16:12 PM
I wouldn?t bash anyone?s opinion of this movie. Whether you think it?s the greatest movie ever or extremely overrated or anywhere in between, I can understand any opinion of it.
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: uncknown on September 30, 2021, 07:41:04 PM
It's a seriously flawed film.
Even the score is a disappointment.
I prefer the studio cut also!

If the director was Sergio Provolone nobody would even discuss it.
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: drinkanddestroy on September 30, 2021, 11:41:25 PM
It's a seriously flawed film.
Even the score is a disappointment.
I prefer the studio cut also!

If the director was Sergio Provolone nobody would even discuss it.

Wooooooooah

I can agree that it?s flawed

I can?t agree with the criticism of the score

As to the studio cut, I?ve thankfully never seen it so I can?t comment on it
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: groggysghost on October 01, 2021, 09:31:29 AM
Tarantino seems to be going out of his way to be a petulant ass in recent years. I guess I'd rather him dissing Leone than slurring Bruce Lee or expounding on the glory of shooting women's feet.
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: uncknown on October 01, 2021, 02:27:50 PM
The media has decided that QT is the arbiter of what's cool; what's good.
Previously, it was Scorcese.

I don't need or want either of them to be set up as the dictator of fashion.
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: uncknown on October 01, 2021, 02:28:31 PM
Wooooooooah

I can agree that it?s flawed

I can?t agree with the criticism of the score

As to the studio cut, I?ve thankfully never seen it so I can?t comment on it

In your heart you know I'm right. 😎
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: uncknown on October 01, 2021, 02:31:30 PM
The only good part of the film is.the Lower East side segment.
In the studio.cut, it's the first part of the film.
The whole flashback structure is.discarded
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: noodles_leone on October 02, 2021, 05:18:40 AM
I cannot believe I?m wasting my time defending Mank in another thread while some philistine is attacking the holy grail of cinema here.
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: dave jenkins on October 02, 2021, 10:04:57 AM
Yeah, who started this worthless thread?
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: uncknown on October 02, 2021, 02:32:45 PM
I cannot believe I?m wasting my time defending Mank in another thread while some philistine is attacking the holy grail of cinema here.

YOU can't believe it?!!
😅
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: uncknown on October 02, 2021, 02:40:09 PM
Have you ever noticed how circumspect Frayling is about this film?
.
His opinions are carefully given as not to offend the family or fans..
He has criticized the violence and treatment of women. But, that's a safe opinion to hold.
( Ithink he also said the score was too similar to OUTIW.)

If he ever really let.his views be known, I suspect they would closely mirror my own.
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: Novecento on October 02, 2021, 07:09:19 PM
I cannot believe I?m wasting my time defending Mank in another thread while some philistine is attacking the holy grail of cinema here.

I couldn?t get through Mank. On an entirely separate note, your man Edgar Wright apparently has a new movie coming out!

As for Once Upon a Time in America, it?s no ?? West? but boy is it up there in the realm of untouchable masterpieces. And it?s certainly above ?? Hollywood?. Having said that, ?? Hollywood? was still damn good apart from the ending (and def my fave Tarantino).

But then again, ?the legend of the pianist on the ocean? and ?cross of iron? are also masterpieces in my book. I don?t expect many people in these parts to back me up in that regard. Each to their own I guess?

By the way, has anyone seen Dick Tracy recently. How did I miss that before in Vittorio Storraro?s oeuvre. Those colors just took it to another level.
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: dave jenkins on October 03, 2021, 02:18:37 AM
I couldn?t get through Mank.
But then again, ?the legend of the pianist on the ocean? and ?cross of iron? are also masterpieces in my book. I don?t expect many people in these parts to back me up in that regard. Each to their own I guess?

By the way, has anyone seen Dick Tracy recently. How did I miss that before in Vittorio Storraro?s oeuvre. Those colors just took it to another level.
I haven't seen the one with the pianist, but in all other regards your opinions accord with my own. Mank stank.
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: noodles_leone on October 03, 2021, 04:15:40 AM
I couldn?t get through Mank. On an entirely separate note, your man Edgar Wright apparently has a new movie coming out!

As for Once Upon a Time in America, it?s no ?? West? but boy is it up there in the realm of untouchable masterpieces. And it?s certainly above ?? Hollywood?. Having said that, ?? Hollywood? was still damn good apart from the ending (and def my fave Tarantino).

But then again, ?the legend of the pianist on the ocean? and ?cross of iron? are also masterpieces in my book. I don?t expect many people in these parts to back me up in that regard. Each to their own I guess?

By the way, has anyone seen Dick Tracy recently. How did I miss that before in Vittorio Storraro?s oeuvre. Those colors just took it to another level.

Is this flood of movie titles another trap for me to fall in and not spend that time defending OUATIA? You?re all against me.

(I love cross of iron but the film about novecento is too sentimental for me despite its huge qualities. More precisely, it?s ?only? sentimental, I need other notes in a music or a film)

(DJ: sure, Mank cannot compete with any of your post-2010 10/10)
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: dave jenkins on October 03, 2021, 09:07:05 AM
Is this flood of movie titles another trap for me to fall in and not spend that time defending OUATIA?
OUATIA does not need your defense. It is itself its own justification of its genius. One need only watch/listen to the film to be convinced. Mank, on the other hand, requires hours, possibly years of creative argumentation to make its worthiness apparent.
Quote
(DJ: sure, Mank cannot compete with any of your post-2010 10/10)
Your sarcasm is appreciated. Much better than what groggysghost is capable of.
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: Novecento on October 05, 2021, 04:45:44 AM
I haven't seen the one with the pianist

Well if it hadn?t been for two things, we?d all still be talking about it:

1. Another movie about a big ship that crosses the Atlantic hadn?t been released at the same time and broken all box office records
2. The English language release hadn?t been butchered as egregiously as OUATIA
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: uncknown on October 06, 2021, 03:36:17 PM
QT inexplicably praised the mediocre tv- movie STRANGER ON THE RUN.
??????
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: noodles_leone on October 07, 2021, 02:50:57 AM
Well if it hadn?t been for 4 things, we?d all still be talking about it:

1. Another movie about a big ship that crosses the Atlantic hadn?t been released at the same time and broken all box office records
2. The English language release hadn?t been butchered as egregiously as OUATIA

3. The movie was one note (the set design was sometimes inspired by Caro & Jeunet. They should have taken a few hints on the tone too)
4. The CGI aged terribly


By the way, Novecento, have you ever noticed the guy who plays the main character has a small part in Mississipi Burning? His eyes are put to great use. I'm sure Leone would have casted him as a dispensable baddie just to do a close up.
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: Novecento on October 09, 2021, 03:46:07 AM
3. The movie was one note (the set design was sometimes inspired by Caro & Jeunet. They should have taken a few hints on the tone too)
4. The CGI aged terribly


By the way, Novecento, have you ever noticed the guy who plays the main character has a small part in Mississipi Burning? His eyes are put to great use. I'm sure Leone would have casted him as a dispensable baddie just to do a close up.

How do you mean it was inspired by Caro and Jeunet? Can give specific examples?

Re. Closeups, yes, Tornatore is Leone?s successor. No wonder Morricone enjoyed working with him so much. Most of his best scores are divided between the two of them.
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: vanvogt on October 12, 2021, 03:41:50 AM
I was at the Boston preview that killed it off. De Niro underacts, Woods overacts (SURPRISE !), McGovern doesn't act at all. They're outdone by their kid counterparts. Only film where SL miscalculated his effect. Answer the phone already..... The rapes another matter.

I think De Niro had too much influence on him.
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: drinkanddestroy on October 12, 2021, 07:27:48 AM
I was at the Boston preview that killed it off. De Niro underacts, Woods overacts (SURPRISE !), McGovern doesn't act at all. They're outdone by their kid counterparts. Only film where SL miscalculated his effect. Answer the phone already..... The rapes another matter.

I think De Niro had too much influence on him.

I recall Frayling mentioned something about a disastrous preview where the projector broke. The audience had not been made aware that the film was nearly 4 hours, then they announced it would be 4 hours and people groaned? and then the projector broke, so people had to wait even longer. Was that the one?
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: vanvogt on October 12, 2021, 07:56:05 AM
No. Everything went fine technically. But the crowd - mostly college age - was very vocal. I don't think they even bothered  with cards to fill out. Made the local paper. Supposedly De Niro and Alan Ladd Jr were there.
Title: Re: QT disses OUATIA
Post by: drinkanddestroy on October 12, 2021, 03:10:51 PM
No. Everything went fine technically. But the crowd - mostly college age - was very vocal. I don't think they even bothered  with cards to fill out. Made the local paper. Supposedly De Niro and Alan Ladd Jr were there.
cool info

this was the long version?