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Films of Sergio Leone => Other Films => Topic started by: grandpa_chum on December 04, 2004, 01:37:13 PM



Title: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: grandpa_chum on December 04, 2004, 01:37:13 PM
Just saw it... and wanted to know if anyone else can confirm my suspicion that i swear the fort was the same set as the jailbreak scenes at the begining of FAFDM... also the use of the sweetwater ranch... and the one i'm least sure about... Is some of the score straight out of Above The Law... the Van Cleef spaghetti.

anyone else notice any of these when seeing it.


Title: Re: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: cigar joe on December 04, 2004, 03:26:14 PM
Was it any good?


Title: Re: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: grandpa_chum on December 04, 2004, 03:54:08 PM
it was pretty good... I love Coburn and he was great... and it was a great story... i would definitly recomend it to anyone who likes leone... it is a little slow, and not in a good leone way... but it's not that bad


Title: Re: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: DJIMBO on December 04, 2004, 06:50:53 PM
i see there's quite a few familiar names in there:

Coburn, Savalas, Stefanelli, Hill, Spencer

any decent performances or is it your typically spaghetti hammy overacting?


Title: Re: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: grandpa_chum on December 06, 2004, 12:53:00 AM
well i've never seen a bud spencer movie... but he and coburn were great. No hammy stuff from those two... the rest of the gang was a little like that though... savalas was definitly great as well


Title: Re: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: grandpa_chum on December 06, 2004, 12:48:07 PM
excuse me... music from BEYOND THE LAW not above the law.


Title: Re: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: DJIMBO on December 06, 2004, 05:52:17 PM
mmmm....could it be that this film is actually quite good?

im not a huge spencer fan ive seen ace high probably the worst film ive ever seen apart from maybe El Condor.


Title: Re: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: grandpa_chum on December 08, 2004, 02:35:23 PM
it's definitly of higher visual quality than i expected... and this was pan and scan so i'm sure the widescreen looks even better... seems like it had a decent budget at least... not your average shitty looking/sounding spaghetti.


Title: Re: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: JoeH on April 17, 2005, 02:41:18 AM
Yesterday, I saw this Spaghetti Western with Bud Spencer and James Coburn and I was a bit disappointed. OK, the characters are not bad and the topic (The guys can decide between the death of hanging and a very dangerous job) is interesting, but finally these things are too superficially treated, so that they didn't really convince me. The humor is average, the score is trash and a lot of scenes are too slow and boring. Some scenes are even nearly useless. The atmosphere was also missing rather in the whole movie.
Nevertheless it was not bad entertainment, but nothing compared to many other westerns.


Title: Re: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: Belkin on April 17, 2005, 08:28:27 AM
Yup, not the worse I've ever seen but light years from the best. Caught this on it's first release many moons ago as part of a double-bill that included KUNG FU - THE HEADCRUSHER!


Title: Re: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: The Smoker on April 17, 2005, 09:32:26 AM
Kung-Fu -The Headcrusher, blast from the past. Highly amusing cockney over dubs for the bad guy renamed Slasher Pete.† ;D†


Title: Re: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: titoli on February 28, 2006, 05:22:20 PM
I don't remember seeing it at the movies, except for the last scene when

Spoiler  Spoiler Spoiler

Coburn kills Savalas (his facial expression is memorable).


Coburn is his usual good, as Savalas (that goes without saying) but the surprise is Spencer, who is really the lead of the movie. That is about all there is to know about a movie that I've found  childish in his plot, without a single spark of originality and of very slow pace. I can't say whether the fort was the same of other movies, but it was very good to see: the designer knew his trade. One of the best edifices I have seen in any movie, not only SW. A pity the screenplayers could find a better way to make use of it.
Also, can't tell whether the music was the same of Beyond the Law. Might possibly be, as I wasn't impressed by either: one expects more from the author of More.


 



Title: Re: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: Banjo on March 01, 2006, 02:52:02 AM
I think my pan and scan version maybe be cut but this is still an enjoyably above average sw.However i found Savalas's performance a bit limp and restrained by his standards† and i don't think it suits Coburn to be almost bullied around by his associates and if i remember correctly is rescued from a beating by Bud Spencer(yes Bud is great in this movie as he is also in the excellent Five Man Army).
From memory i'm sure the music is taken† Day of Anger(Valerii's earlier western).Its a shame from what is obviously a reasonable budgetted sw that there couldn't have been some newly composed music and i think it takes away the enjoyment slightly because it makes you think of the earlier movie.


Title: Re: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: titoli on March 01, 2006, 05:10:33 AM
Quote
and i don't think it suits Coburn to be almost bullied around by his associates

 I think it suits his character and also, as he explains to Spencer, he doesn't want the rumour of the shots to attract southern troops to them.


Title: Re: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: Banjo on March 02, 2006, 05:43:55 AM
*However* in some English-speaking markets, its score was replaced by pieces of the DOA and BTL score, and Howard Hughes mistakenly claims in "Once Upon a Time in the Italian West" that this was the way it was originally.
Yeau thats the version i've got.I'm don't think Hughes is claiming that this was the way it was originally because i've just looked up that paragraph and all Hughes says is"even the extensive reuse of Ortolani's scores from DOA and BTL couldn't spoil the film"  so maybe thats the only version he's seen and in any case he was making a brief reference to Valerii's earlier movies in a chapter devoted to My Name Is Nobody.



Title: Re: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: Banjo on May 26, 2007, 04:14:55 PM
Arizona Colts review:-

A REASON TO LIVE, A REASON TO DIE 1972-Fitfully boring Tonino Valerii western that obviously had a sizeable budget. James Coburn plays a disgraced Colonel who recruits some criminals to infiltrate an impenetrable fortress run by Confederate madman Telly Savalas. Although itís shot well, the film is not as good as it sounds. Literally nothing happens until the final 20 minutes which is where the bulk of the budget appears to have been spent showcasing the spectacular destruction of the fortress. Savalas is wasted in his role as the bad guy. You never see him until the film is nearly over and he never does anything to make you really despise him. A final revelation from Coburn reveals Savalasís villainous past. Bud Spencer seems lost with Terence Hill at his side. A preponderance of dirty language is used throughout. An unseen prologue is added to this version which does nothing to improve things only ruining the ending for the viewer as it gives away who lives. Anyway, the finale nearly makes it all worthwhile. Not a bad film in the slightest just a missed opportunity. A memorable and bombastic score by Morricone.


Title: Re: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: Arizona Colt on May 26, 2007, 04:19:41 PM
The recent WE DVD which I'm sure is simply the recent Italian DVD synced with an english track, doesn't improve the film at all. An added prologue hinders the film even further as it begins with the Fort destroyed and reveals to the audience who exactly will make it out alive. It's an okay movie, just not much happens during its 2 hour running time until the final 20 minutes. No Savalas until then either and he does nothing. The subplot involving Coburn and Savalas would have been great and the final bit between the two had more punch had this angle been explored a bit more. Still a missed opportunity.


Title: Re: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: The Firecracker on May 26, 2007, 04:22:26 PM
I like this better than Varelii's other weak western TASTE OF KILLING.


Have the "Massacre at fort Holman" copy.


Title: Re: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: Banjo on May 26, 2007, 05:13:55 PM
Yes i have that same cut version! :(

I love these Dirty Dozen type sw's O0


Title: Re: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: Arizona Colt on May 27, 2007, 12:21:30 PM
The two times I've watched it, I can't stop laughing when I hear the fat guy at the end immediately after manning a gatling gun and tells Bud Spencer to "go f*ck yourself!"


Title: Re: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: Banjo on October 09, 2007, 05:59:02 AM
Review from Arizona Colt:-

A REASON TO LIVE, A REASON TO DIE 1972- aka UNA RAGIONE PER VIVERE E UNA PER MORIRE aka MASSACRE AT FORT HOLMAN

James Coburn, Telly Savalas, Bud Spencer

Directed by Tonino Valerii

James Coburn plays a disgraced Colonel who recruits some criminals minutes from the Hangman's noose to infiltrate an impenetrable fortress run by a Confederate madman played by Telly Savalas.

*REVIEW FOR BAD BOOTLEG VERSION*

Fitfully boring Tonino Valerii western that obviously had a sizeable budget. Although itís shot well, the film is not as good as it sounds. Literally nothing happens until the final 20 minutes which is where the bulk of the budget appears to have been spent showcasing the spectacular destruction of the fortress. Savalas is wasted in his role as the bad guy. You never see him until the film is nearly over and he never does anything to make you really despise him.

A final revelation from Coburn reveals Savalasís villainous past. Bud Spencer seems lost without Terence Hill at his side. A preponderance of dirty language is used throughout. An unseen prologue is added to this version which does nothing to improve things only ruining the ending for the viewer as it gives away who survives. Anyway, the finale nearly makes it all worthwhile. Not a bad film in the slightest just a missed opportunity. A memorable and bombastic score by Morricone.

*SECOND REVIEW FOR NEW WILD EAST RELEASE*

The recent WE DVD which I'm sure is simply the recent Italian DVD synced with an english track, doesn't improve the film at all. An added prologue hinders the film even further as it begins with the Fort destroyed and reveals to the audience who exactly will make it out alive. It's an okay movie, just not much happens during its 2 hour running time until the final 20 minutes. No Savalas until then either and he does nothing for the length of his brief screen time. The subplot involving Coburn and Savalas would have been great and the final bit between the two had more punch had this angle been explored a bit more. Still a missed opportunity.

Released to American theaters in a compromised release removing the dirty language as MASSACRE AT FORT HOLMAN.

The two times I've watched it, I can't stop laughing when I hear the fat guy at the end utter, immediately after manning a gatling gun tells Bud Spencer to "go f*ck yourself!"


Title: Re: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: Banjo on October 09, 2007, 06:11:42 AM
I don't think the movie lives up to its promise but neither myself or Mrs Banjo thought it was boring and with both of us being Bud Spencer fans it was great to have all that extra footage at the start of the film which nicely tied up some loose ends about how the condemned men came to the gallows and of course Coburns crucifix.I think that Spencer proves here (as he also does FIVE MAN ARMY and TODAY ITS ME TOMORROW YOU )that he's easily charismatic enough to shine without Terence Hill and for me Spencer totally steals this movies from the likes of Coburn and Savalas.Especially memorable is when he cleverly manipulates the town by fooling them into a joyous frenzy ,making them believe the war had ended in order to allow his comrades to beat a retreat with their supplies.I also thought he was very funny and convincing getting himself into Fort Holman  by means of complaining of a "sore butt" and later conning Savalas and co that he was a government agent.

Yes there could've been some more action but i found the slow build up prior to the last 20 minute gun battle with Spencer clearing the way for the assault while Coburns men work their way into the fort suspenseful and enjoyable.But I agree that the final confrontation between Coburn and Savalas was an anti-climax.

All in all apart from the missing Coburn dubbing i much prefered the longer uncut version in widescreen.Unlike the cut version i'm glad that the scores from both DAY OF ANGER and BEYOND THE LAW weren't used (both a bit too jazzy for my tastes anyway) and instead (i assume) an original Riz Ortolani score was provided .I'm surprised at the laziness of regurgitating old musical scores unneccessarily making one think of those other two movies as well as giving a lower budget feel to an obviously high budget sw.

My rating 7 out of 10.  O0 
 


Title: Re: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: stanton on November 13, 2008, 06:51:51 PM
A surprisingly lousy movie.

Carelessly written and mostly idealessly directed. The worst western by routine director Valerii and a major step back after Day of Anger and The Price of Power.

After seeing this film I was absolutely sure that Valerii wasn't the man responsible for all these great scenes in My Name Is Nobody.


Title: Re: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: dave jenkins on March 16, 2015, 11:42:53 AM
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=16282


Title: Re: A Reason to Live, a Reason to Die (1972)
Post by: Spikeopath on February 08, 2017, 08:04:32 PM
The Dirty Seven.

Una ragione per vivere e una per morire (AKA: A Reason to Live, A Reason to Die & Massacre at Fort Holman) is directed by Tonino Valerii, who also co-writes with Rafael Azcona and Ernesto Gastaldi. It stars James Coburn, Telly Savalas & Bud Spencer. Cinematographer is Alejandro Ulloa and the music is scored by Riz Ortolani. Plot sees Coburn as Union Colonel Pembroke, who during the Civil War is given a rag-tag group of criminals to go win back the fort he lost to Confederate Major Frank Ward (Savalas). For him it's a chance to regain his honour, for them it's a chance to avoid execution for their crimes.

Joplin Gazette, Joplin Missouri, April 10, 1872

---Today I walked through the ruins of what was once Fort Holman. 10 years ago, this Civil War fortress, thought to be impregnable, was destroyed by a wild bunch of marauders. Eli Sampson, a survivor of that massacre, revealed in an interview that the raid was the result of a blood feud between two bitter men: Colonel Pembroke, a Union officer, thought to be a traitor and a coward, led the mission to recapture the fort he had once surrendered. Major Ward, a ruthless "Mad Genius," who joined the Confederacy solely to gain command of Fort Holman, so that he could rule the vast surrounding Santa Fe territory after the war. But what motivates these two men and what caused this incredible blood bath, was explained by Eli Sampson in the story that follows---

It's a written opening that grabs the attention straight away, it has all the promise of a spaghetti western done Peckinpah style. Then early in proceedings a grizzled James Coburn walks along a line of men about to be hanged, being introduced to them and calmly wondering if said scum-bags would like to stave off execution by accompanying him on a suicide mission? OK, it's derivative of The Dirty Dozen five years earlier, but if this is blending Peckinpah with Robert Aldrich at his best then it will be worth every second spent with it. Sadly it doesn't come close to living up to that particular promise. But it does have points of worth within.

If you are willing to invest some patience with the slow narrative and get to the carnage finale unscathed? Then it's actually worth the wait as regards action. There's also some fine photography from Ulloa around Almeria in Spain, while Ortolani's soundtrack score blends well in context to the story. However, away from Coburn the acting is sub-standard, especially from Savalas who is miscast, while some suspension of disbelief is needed once the group reach the fort. But all in all it's a safe recommend to fans of Westerns, spaghetti or otherwise. And certainly a must for Coburn fans. 6.5/10

Footnote: The full cut of the film now runs at just shy of two hours in length, film buyers should ensure that they buy home format discs that run at around the 113/114 minute mark.