Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => The Good, The Bad and The Ugly => Topic started by: mattfighter on February 19, 2005, 09:04:43 PM

Title: The Guns
Post by: mattfighter on February 19, 2005, 09:04:43 PM
(http://www.hege-arms.com/bilder/Cartridge%20rifle/1873%20revolver.jpg)(http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/images/richards_mason_cart_conv.jpg)Does ne one have ne other pics of guns from the trilogys?
These are the two guns used by Clint Eastwood the The Good the Bad and the ugly, Fistfull of Dollars and FFDM. the first one is an 1873 Colt SAA Peacemaker and the other is a 1851 Colt Navy with the Conversion. I want to buy these guns so bad but im barley 16. gotta wait 5 more years
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: mattfighter on February 20, 2005, 05:34:02 PM
i already know were i can buy them and i went to that site and i dont think u can buy any gun there . later [/size]
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: Sgt. Angel eyes on February 22, 2005, 06:46:49 AM
Hope you saved your pennies, I'm pretty sure those are going to be slightly expensive. There are authentic looking replicas that you can buy without waiting. They don't fire, but who wants to try and fire a 152 year old weapon anyway? I'm sure it's possible if it's in perfect working order, but then it goes back to the expensive part again.,,,,SAE

http://www.replicaweaponry.com/index.html
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: Sgt. Angel eyes on February 22, 2005, 07:13:23 AM
I have some black powder replicas? Is that what you were referring to, or originals?,,,,SAE
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: iceman on February 22, 2005, 03:56:14 PM
Quote from: mattfighter on February 19, 2005, 09:04:43 PM
(http://www.hege-arms.com/bilder/Cartridge%20rifle/1873%20revolver.jpg)(http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/images/richards_mason_cart_conv.jpg)Does ne one have ne other pics of guns from the trilogys?
These are the two guns used by Clint Eastwood the The Good the Bad and the ugly, Fistfull of Dollars and FFDM. the first one is an 1873 Colt SAA Peacemaker and the other is a 1851 Colt Navy with the Conversion. I want to buy these guns so bad but im barley 16. gotta wait 5 more years

Always thought he used the same gun in all 3 films, the one with the snake handle...isn't it  the one he had  in Rawhide or something.....CJ where are you when we need you???

ICE
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: cigar joe on February 22, 2005, 04:52:16 PM
Well, the Colt Navy was in GBU the Peacemaker was in FAFDM and AFOD, the coiled snake grips can be swaped out pretty easily there is a screw that holds the two sides of the walnut grips together. The screw is on the opposite side of the one thats showing in the two images. If you draw a level line from the bottom of the trigger guard over the grip the screw is in the middle of the grip at that level. Most pistols I've seen have a nut type of fitting on one side and the screw on the other.
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: mattfighter on February 22, 2005, 08:45:12 PM
the site were u can buy the guns is buffaloarms.com (http://buffaloarms.com) and the prices arent to high. maybe like 4-500 bucks for thee pistols. well there u have it. later
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: mattfighter on February 22, 2005, 08:51:54 PM
OH YA i FOrgot to say that the guns are real, not replicas. They fire real ammunition. and if u go to the site and dont know were to go. go to fire arms and theres a list the ones with the 2 guns are 1851 "Richards-Mason Conversion" and the "Model P SAA" along with a list of others.
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: cigar joe on February 23, 2005, 04:19:19 AM
Yes Clint got the snake grips from the Rawhide gun, there is supposed to be an episode that shows where he gets them.

Its on the Clint Eastwood board, do a search to find the thread.
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: mattfighter on February 23, 2005, 07:07:12 PM
the rattlesnake grips(http://www.dreadnaught-industries.com/snake_grips.JPG)(http://www.spaghettiwesternreplicas.com/images/gripprod.jpg)(http://www.spaghettiwesternreplicas.com/images/snakenewsm.jpg)
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: cigar joe on February 24, 2005, 03:48:05 AM
cool thanks mattfighter
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: mattfighter on February 24, 2005, 11:55:06 AM
No problem
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: Gwalker99 on November 16, 2005, 09:13:37 PM
on the SAA P..  there are like 4 different barrel lengths..  I wonder what was the length clint used in the two films
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: Harmonica on November 16, 2005, 10:22:08 PM
In what two films?

In The Good the Bad and the Ugly he uses an 1851 Navy Colt Conversion 7 1/2 inch barrel.

And in Fistful of Dollars and For a Few Dollars More he uses an 1873 Colt SAA 5 1/2 barrel…

Both with the same handles with silver inlet of the Rattlesnake I might add…
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: HEX on November 17, 2005, 09:26:36 AM
BEEBS if u are gonna buy authentic guns of that era get ready to pay well over 900 dollars.

i was recently in new orleans(before KATRINA) and i went into a antique gun shop. i saw an original derringer from the period for 600 dollars! i am not even going to get into pistol and rifle prices.



youre best luck is to go for a replica.
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: Gwalker99 on November 17, 2005, 10:49:22 AM
you can get nice remakes that are even better quality than the originals for around 200-500 dollars .. if you try and get a  original pistol from the time itll cost you around 1500 all the way up to 10,000  dollars
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: iceman on November 17, 2005, 11:55:33 AM
Quote from: HEX on November 17, 2005, 09:26:36 AM
BEEBS if u are gonna buy authentic guns of that era get ready to pay well over 900 dollars.

i was recently in new orleans(before KATRINA) and i went into a antique gun shop. i saw an original derringer from the period for 600 dollars! i am not even going to get into pistol and rifle prices.



youre best luck is to go for a replica.

Yeh!!!  real guns are bad they can kill people or even yourself if you stick em' in your ear and pull the trigger, so stay away from real ones. Get a nice replica and pretend..no one will know.

ICE
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: HEX on November 17, 2005, 11:58:13 AM
Quote from: iceman on November 17, 2005, 11:55:33 AM
Yeh!!!  real guns are bad they can kill people or even yourself if you stick em' in your ear and pull the trigger, so stay away from real ones. Get a nice replica and pretend..no one will know.

ICE


well ICE i dont know to take that sarcastic remark as an insult or a joke.

can u clarify?
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: iceman on November 17, 2005, 01:51:01 PM
Quote from: HEX on November 17, 2005, 11:58:13 AM

well ICE i dont know to take that sarcastic remark as an insult or a joke.

can u clarify?

It was a joke, but meant to get across that guns are dangerous things. We in the UK will not tolerate them, that is why no one is allowed to carry them and why we have less gun related incidents than most other countries. Following some gun related massacres they are virtually banned unless used for sport etc. I know in the USA you feel differently on the subject but I just wanted to make a point. Maybe I shouldn't have joked in another topic that I had Clints real Snake handled gun, but I was going to get round to also making a similar point. I like to talk about them and look at pictures but would never own one. Sorry for affending you. :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X


ICE
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: HEX on November 17, 2005, 03:02:05 PM
Quote from: iceman on November 17, 2005, 01:51:01 PM
It was a joke, but meant to get across that guns are dangerous things. We in the UK will not tolerate them, that is why no one is allowed to carry them and why we have less gun related incidents than most other countries. Following some gun related massacres they are virtually banned unless used for sport etc. I know in the USA you feel differently on the subject but I just wanted to make a point. Maybe I shouldn't have joked in another topic that I had Clints real Snake handled gun, but I was going to get round to also making a similar point. I like to talk about them and look at pictures but would never own one. Sorry for affending you. :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X


ICE

yeah we have a real nasty problem over here with guns.
but then again guns dont kill people, people with guns kill people.

and i am sure america is the butt of many jokes in plenty of parts in the world. do we deserve it?
i dont know? i would have to here the joke.


so how about it? anyone here got a america joke.
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: Juan Miranda on November 24, 2005, 07:12:26 PM
Talking about the guns (not something I know much/anything about) what's going on with Clint's fire-arm?

I think it's a Henry repeating rifle, which appeared in 1860 (?) and later won the battle of the Little Big Horn, but my question is, what's that tube mounted on the side of the rifled barrel for?

(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Tarkyhitch/rifle1.jpg)

It's not there on the first two times Clint uses the same weapon to shoot Tuco free:

(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Tarkyhitch/rifle.jpg)

It can't be a sight, as Clint has his eye shut on that side of the weapon, so, what's all that about?

Cigar Joe? Harmonica?
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: dave jenkins on November 24, 2005, 08:51:37 PM
CJ or Harmonica are the guys to ask, definitely. While we wait for the experts to weigh in, I'll take a non-expert stab at the question. Could that tube contain the cleaning rod or other materials necessary for keeping the barrel clean?
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: Juan Miranda on November 25, 2005, 10:36:45 AM
Done a little bit of research on this since I posted last, and may be able to answer my own question. This rapid action weapon could fire off fifteen bullits at a time. These were housed in the barrell under the rifled barrell on the gun ( I always wondered what that was for...). With no wood stock to cover it, apparently it could get very hot, and was a minor design flaw.

Perhaps the tube is some kind of fast action loader, with a fresh round of 15 bullits in it? Haven't been able to confirm it, it's just my guess. All that weight of shot added to just one side of the top barrell would surely make accuracy a little harder though?
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: cigar joe on November 25, 2005, 11:26:21 AM
To tell you the truth I always thought it was a sight but you may be right about your quick loader idea or it may be just a seperate magazine for storage, also the wooden fore stock is removed on this rifle for some reason and that reason may be to balance the gun since it does have that extra magazine so the removal of the stock may accomplish that .

There was a rifle that had a cartrige box that contained tubes with cartriges and it was loaded  through the rear stock,  you just opened the hatch and tipped the contents of the tube into the magazine, the only draw back was that this rifle was a gravity feed loader so you had to lift up the barrel so the cartridge would slide down into the chamber, it wasn't a lever action gun, but I can't remember the name of it right off hand.

Just a quick note the Henry rifle basically evolved into the Winchester, it wasn't as if they were two seperate compeating companies that produced the rifles at the same time.
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: Juan Miranda on November 25, 2005, 12:24:51 PM
Quote from: cigar joe on November 25, 2005, 11:26:21 AM
There was a rifle that had a cartrige box that contained tubes with cartriges and it was loaded  through the rear stock

Was it the Spencer carbine Joe? (I'm a' learnin' (http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Tarkyhitch/untitled.jpg).)
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: iceman on November 25, 2005, 01:04:07 PM
Quote from: Juan Miranda on November 24, 2005, 07:12:26 PM
Talking about the guns (not something I know much/anything about) what's going on with Clint's fire-arm?

I think it's a Henry repeating rifle, which appeared in 1860 (?) and later won the battle of the Little Big Horn, but my question is, what's that tube mounted on the side of the rifled barrel for?

(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Tarkyhitch/rifle1.jpg)

It's not there on the first two times Clint uses the same weapon to shoot Tuco free:

(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Tarkyhitch/rifle.jpg)

It can't be a sight, as Clint has his eye shut on that side of the weapon, so, what's all that about?

Cigar Joe? Harmonica?

Looks like a sight to me...obviously shorty was a lot further away than TUCO and would probably be better with a sight,  and also I would shut my left eye if the sight was on the left side of the rifle,...I think ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

ICE
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: Juan Miranda on November 25, 2005, 04:40:13 PM
As usual, one of my sweeping statements is incorrect. I went and had another look, and Blondie does have the mystery object on his rifle the second time we see him shoot down Tuco.

(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Tarkyhitch/r2.jpg)
He takes aim though the barrell site.

(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Tarkyhitch/r1.jpg)
We can't see the clipped on object yet, but he clearly isn't using it to aim.

(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Tarkyhitch/r3.jpg)
Blondie carries on shooting off hats, using the gun's own site.

(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Tarkyhitch/r4.jpg)
We see that the mystery object seems to be plugged both ends.
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: dave jenkins on November 25, 2005, 04:55:18 PM
Yeah, I don't know what it is, but it is definitely NOT a sight.
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: cigar joe on November 25, 2005, 10:35:09 PM
yea it would be kind of tricky having a sight along side the barrel rather than on top.

I saw the gun with the quick tube loader on Wild West Tech I don't thnk it was a Spencer it was a name I did not recognize. A problem was the tube storage would accidently either fire off in the tube, or the bullets would work loose and the powder would spill out of the cartriges. It was discontinued by the army because of this problem.
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: Hanley on November 26, 2005, 08:50:13 AM
Quote from: Juan Miranda on November 24, 2005, 07:12:26 PM
Talking about the guns (not something I know much/anything about) what's going on with Clint's fire-arm?

I think it's a Henry repeating rifle, which appeared in 1860 (?) and later won the battle of the Little Big Horn, but my question is, what's that tube mounted on the side of the rifled barrel for?

(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Tarkyhitch/rifle1.jpg)

It's not there on the first two times Clint uses the same weapon to shoot Tuco free:

(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Tarkyhitch/rifle.jpg)

It can't be a sight, as Clint has his eye shut on that side of the weapon, so, what's all that about?

Cigar Joe? Harmonica?

It should have been a Henry rifle but, in fact, Blondie uses a Model 1866 (post Civil War) Winchester (also called the "Yellow Boy" carbine). note that Winchester took over the manufacture of the Henry. In 1860, the Henry was modified by an improved loading system (King's March 1866 Patent) - distinguished by the loading port on the right side plate, as seen on Blondie's rifle! The tube on the side is, in my opinion, a telescopic sight. There were such sights used during the Civil War and they were sometimes (perhaps usually) on the side.
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: Harmonica on November 26, 2005, 09:51:00 AM
Looks like Hanley beat me to the punch but I totally concur with what Hanley says above.  Concord, feel free to jump in here at any time… ;)

Leone has taken an 1866 Winchester Yellowboy and “cut it down” to look like an 1860 Henry Goldenboy.  The Henry is loaded from a slit located towards the muzzle end of the tubular magazine under the barrel.  The Winchester is loaded by a slit located on the right side of the receiver which Clint does a pretty good job of hiding during the shooting scenes but is still visible several times while shooting.  The Winchester has a “ring” that holds the wooden fore stock or handle to the magazine and barrel.  As you can see were the prop masters have removed the wooden fore stock the top half of the ring still remains on Blondie’s weapon and it does indeed look to me as if a scope has been added to the left side of the gun to make it look like the remainder of the ring has a use for securing the scope to the gun.  The Winchester also had a ring that attaches the magazine to the barrel at the muzzle of the gun.  The Henry has no such ring.  Also, the Henry's, as far as I know, had an octagonal barrel not a round one.

(http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/1499/1591618pe.jpg)

The top two guns are '60 Henry's and the bottom gun is a '66 Winchester.  I have circled the loading gate on the Winchester which you can clearly see in a few of the scenes below.  I also circled the strap the attaches the wooden fore stock to the barrel and the strap that attaches the barrel to the magazine on the Henry.

(http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/9021/ndvd1645jy.png)

The loading gate on the "cut down" Winchester.

(http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/1089/ndvd1758rj.png)

The "cut down" strap that at one time attached the wooden fore stock to the barrel.

(http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/4955/ndvd1737ll.png)

The front stap that attaches the barrel to the magazine on the Winchester.  No such strap on the Henry.

(http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/4281/ndvd1701gq.png)

A clear shot of "the thing" on the left side of the gun...

(http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/2783/ep00087xl.jpg)

Not exactly the same but here is an image of a scope of the time period that looks very similar.  Although Blondies scope looks to be copper this one is brass.

(http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/3023/ndvd1655vx.png)

Another good shot of "the thing".

(http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/2365/ndvd1667fr.png)

Clearly you can see the sunlight reflecting off glass in these two shots which leads me to belive that it is indeed a scope of some sort...

(http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/8923/ndvd1633ms.png)


As far as Clint’s shooting is concerned he is ambidextrous.  In several movies he shoots a rifle left handed and in others right.  In real life he is more prone to use his left.  As you can see in some of the scenes if you watch real closely he is not being real careful as to taking the shot, almost shooting from the hip so to speak.  In fact a lot of the times he actually closes his eyes right before he pulls the trigger which is a big no no for sharp shooters.  Maybe Blondie is just that good with a gun… ;D
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: Juan Miranda on November 26, 2005, 10:34:33 AM
Well that seems pretty conclusive then, and all interesting stuff. I accidently deleted two of my photobucket captures, but never mind.

Was Blondie any where near the grassy knoll on that cold November day...
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: Harmonica on November 26, 2005, 11:02:21 AM
Quote from: Juan Miranda on November 26, 2005, 10:34:33 AM

Was Blondie any where near the grassy knoll on that cold November day...

(http://users.erols.com/kcoblenz/Lol.GIF)
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: cigar joe on November 27, 2005, 11:43:39 AM
cool shots thanks for clearing it up, my irst hunch was right.  8)
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: Juan Miranda on November 27, 2005, 03:04:23 PM
Yes, well done all. I guess it makes sense in retrospect that any kind of scope would have to be on the side of this weapon. If it was on the top, the user would have a series of red hot spent cartriges flying up their noses, as they were ejected from the top of the firing section.

Clint is so cool though, he just doesn't bother using it.
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: Beebs on November 27, 2005, 03:56:19 PM
I had always thought the thing was the forearm of the stock moved to the top for either sighting or better  "storage" in the saddle sheath
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: mnorg on January 06, 2006, 03:46:52 PM
Anyone know what calibre the 1851 Colt was?
Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: cigar joe on January 06, 2006, 08:28:17 PM
Quote
Anyone know what calibre the 1851 Colt was?


From the Handbook of Texas online  8)

Although Colt's Paterson enterprise failed in 1842 because of inadequate sales, his early revolvers had won the devotion of frontier Texans, particularly those of the ranger force. Appropriately, it was a former Texas Ranger, Samuel H. Walker,qv who in conjunction with the demands of the Mexican War,qv put Colt back in business to stay. In November 1846 Captain Walker, then of the United States Mounted Riflemen, opened negotiations with Colt for the production of 1,000 improved revolvers. Familiar with the shortcomings of the Paterson arm, Walker specified a substantial new design incorporating a fixed trigger with guard and a loading lever beneath the nine-inch barrel. The massive revolver mounted a six-shot cylinder chambered for a .44 caliber conical bullet; the revolver weighed an unprecedented four pounds, nine ounces. Texas Ranger John S. (Rip) Fordqv claimed the new Walker Colt pistol was as powerful as the United States Model 1841 "Mississippi" rifle.

The Walker Colt inaugurated the era of perfected revolver design and manufacture. Colt established a new factory at Hartford, Connecticut, in 1848, and Colt's Patent Fire Arms Manufacturing Company (today the Firearms Division of Colt Industries) began regular production. By the time of Colt's death in 1862, a succession of ten improved revolver models had been introduced, and some 468,000 units manufactured. Before the Civil War the most popular of these in Texas was the .36 caliber 1851 Navy model, about which traveler Frederick Law Olmstedqv observed, "Of the Colt's [Navy] we cannot speak in too high terms. . . . There are probably in Texas about as many revolvers as male adults, and I doubt if there are one hundred in the state of any other make." During the war the few Texas arms manufacturers producing revolvers-Dance Brothers,qv for instance-patterned their limited output on the Colt Dragoon and Navy models.

Title: Re: The Guns
Post by: John Baldwin on January 07, 2006, 05:21:40 AM
I have had an excellent book for Christmas, untitle "Les armes américaines" ("American weapons"), by Dominique Venner. It's an amazing book about the old weapons (guns and winchster). All the story of this weapon are here: who manufactured, what person had etc... Very interesting.