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Films of Sergio Leone => Other Films => Topic started by: cigar joe on February 07, 2004, 10:02:48 PM



Title: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on February 07, 2004, 10:02:48 PM
Got it in the mail today and watched it. It definitely wasn't Leone, but it was ok.

I enjoyed seeing Klaus Kinsky Frank Wolf and Luigi Pistilli and some of the rest of Leone's character stable. The shots in the snow were great and it reminded me of McCabe & Mrs. Miller, but where it lacked was in its budget. It looked cheap and would have improved with better sets. The town of Snow Hill didn't have any reason to exist. The action shots were good and also the stage in the snow.

The other weak area was in the gang of horseless outlaws that were running around out in the snow they didn't seem to have much of anything not even snowshoes and not much of an explanation of why they were there. There was not a believeable story line on the process of the bounty hunting and why would there seem to be more wanted men than townspeople, lol.

Though I haven't seen The Big Gundown in 30 years Itill seem to remember it being much better.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on February 08, 2004, 06:43:57 AM
Continuing and expanding.....

Ok here again is an example of buyer beware. I plunked down about $20 for the Great Silence, mostly through researching different boards and accumulating opinions, and for the most part I picked this film based on that.

Now my tastes in westerns run to stories that are believeable and plausible. Basically, is it a storyline that could have happened? Once you throw in weird stuff and add jugglers and acrobats and hidden guns in banjos (Sabata for example) you loose me. If I want to see that I'd watch re-runs of the Wild Wild West, lol.

The Great Silence was a dark and brooding story it had what at that time was some pretty graffic violence and the juxtaposition of blood and snow was good, it had a good flash back sequence a shocking (for that time ending) and music by Morricone. As a Spaghetti Western at face value it delivered, which at the time was what it was created for.

The back story line of Silence and his motives was good.  And the portrayal  of  the character of Loco was done well by Klaus Kinsky.

But the rest was very far fetched. Like I posted before you have a gang of outlaws some with sickles (looking like medieval grim reapers with their hoods and great coats) with no reason to be there, walking easily over the top of deep snow unaided by snow shoes, while at the same time horses are breaking through and struggling.  Its as if it was filmed at a ski resort with packed powder, which it come to think of it probably was, lol.

The town of Snow Hill was way too small and the gang of outlaws and the gand of bounty killers seemed to out number the town.

This like I said was ok, also, must add that except for Klaus Kinsky the dubbing wasn't up to snuff and it was noticeable, but it was very low budget, so get it if you want to see violence more graffic than Leone and very nice western winter snow shots, but check reality at the door.



Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Cusser on February 08, 2004, 02:27:54 PM
I rate the Big Gundown better, saw the last 20 minutes on Encore Westerns Friday night.  In Silence, remember how Frrank Wolfe's gun wouldn't shoot because it was "too cold"?  The snow didn't stop Loco's gun hidden in the snowbank from working.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on February 08, 2004, 02:51:03 PM
Quote
I rate the Big Gundown better, saw the last 20 minutes on Encore Westerns Friday night.  In Silence, remember how Frrank Wolfe's gun wouldn't shoot because it was "too cold"?  The snow didn't stop Loco's gun hidden in the snowbank from working.  

If you think about it the Spaghetti craze was preceded by the Sword & Sandal craze, and look at those movies, the majority of the Hercules and Machiste were crap too, but the audiences they were made for eat them up.

So its really even more special what Leone achieved, and even sadder that his total output was work was shortened by circumstances beyond his control.

You know I'm starting to wonder now if the Spag movies
that actually played in the theaters on Broadway in NYC were the best of the whole lot.

Fistful of Dollars
For a Few Dollars More
The Good The Bad and The Ugly
Death Rides A Horse
The Big Gundown
Once Upon A Time In The West

I might give "A Bullet For the General" and "Django" a shot. I expect a little more from ABFTG, and Django I'll get just for a hoot. I'm really hope that "The Big Gundown" gets some decent DVD release.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Austin on February 09, 2004, 06:47:35 AM
I have yet to see The Great Silence, but I am intrigued to do so. Is it on sale in the UK anyone?

'A Bullet for the General' is one of my favourite Spaghetti Westerns, Leone included. That and 'The Big Gundown' are fantastically serious studies of Western politics, with a bit for the genre fans thrown in (Volonte in 'Bullet', Van Cleef and a delightfully evil Austrian gunslinger in 'Gundown'). Django I found very very weird - but a great watch.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on February 09, 2004, 05:10:52 PM
Hi Austin,
Tell me how "A Bullet For The General" compares to Leone, mostly is it realistic and believeable, and how is the movies attention to detail? This information would help a lot, thanks.
cj


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Austin on February 10, 2004, 02:39:37 AM
Franco Solinas's script is full of Marxist undertones, but 'A Bullet for the General' can also be enjoyed on a purely plot-based level. Volonte is magnificent as a gold-hungry bandido, and Klaus Kinski is his usual exuberant self (this time hurling grenades in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost - oh, and the Revolution).

If you, like me, are interested in the Mexican Revolution, this film is the one for you. It's full of thoughtful studies of the realities of coups d'etat, like the difficulty of forming post-revolutionary governments in a largely illiterate society, and the essentially mercenary nature of many people's 'principles'.

It also has some truly great scenes - the hold up of the train by Cuncho's gang right at the start draws you straight in, and shows you some brutal realities of the Revolution right from the off. Also, the narrative subtly shows revolutionary convictions awaken in Volonte's bandit as the film progresses.

I'd say it is believable (if you look closely enough you can spot some pertinent CIA references), but I'm not going to spoil the plot, because it's worth watching. The attention to historical detail strikes me as being similar to Leone's now you mention it - the larger picture may not narrate exactly what 'happened', but the little details place you firmly in the Mexican Revolution (anti Diaz graffiti, peon village pageants).

Anyway I'm rambling now - not everyone's cup of tea, but for me up there with Leone.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Cusser on February 10, 2004, 09:18:31 PM
OK, speaking of the "Great Silence", I tried to purchase this DVD about four months ago and found it to be out of stock everywhere I looked on Internet, and phone calls to distributor Fantoma in San Francisco were not answered, not even an answering machine so I'd say it will be out of print for quite a while or forever.  Since I hadn't ever seen it, wife bought it for me on Ebay, and it arrived, U.S. Version, widescreen, alternate ending, etc.   So tonight, by chance, I took my daughter to the mall 2 miles from the house, and wandered into Suncoast Motion Picture company, and they had two brand new copies in stock for $24.99 each (U.S. Region 1).  So maybe their website http://www.mediaplay.com/ also has it available.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on February 11, 2004, 05:01:49 AM
Cusser, ok as a Leone afficianado, what besides "The Big Gundown" have you found to be close to Leone's level?

When I purchased TGS on Amazon I also got Pocket Essential's "Spaghetti Westerns" to get free shipping. They list 31 SW's that are worthy of listing.

The top rating in the book is 5/5 and they gave Silence a 5/5 but it seams to give it for the novelty of the snow setting, and the daring of the non trational happy ending. To me it did pre date McCabe & Mrs. Miller's use of a winter setting, and Klaus Kinsky was good in his role, and he seemed to have the same dubber as in FAFDM.

Other than that the story wasn't very believable, but then most SW's in general are not believable, so as a representative of the genre it probably makes sense to get a 5/5.

What I need is a "A Leone Lovers Guide to Spaghettti Westerns" or maybe on this board we can make our own. Whats important to me is the whole package:

Is the story within the realm of possibility.
Is the cinnematography outstanding.
Is the acting good.
Is the dubbing done well.

A big budget helps but if the above are all outstanding a low budget done with style is good.








Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Smoker on February 12, 2004, 12:36:41 PM
Though I haven't seen The Big Gundown in 30 years Itill seem to remember it being much better.

If you like The Big Gundown, Cigar Joe
you should checkout Sollima's other spaghetti westerns Face To Face. Is his other great one
Volonte, Tomas Milan & William Berger

Avoid Run Man Run its just a Big Gundown reworking with No Lee Van Cleef just Thomas Milan.

Im sorry but i love The Great Silence. It was hyped to death for me. I had a friend bang on about it for a year.

But still it delivered something unqiue from Leone's world.
Jean Lous Trintignant is fantastic. And what a sucker punch ending.  ;) I was reeling for 2 days after a first viewing.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: El Bon on February 12, 2004, 12:58:07 PM
The closest i have found to Leone in style is Corbucci's The Mercenary. 3 protagonists, double crossing, cool hero (even lights cigars on people's back) and gundown in circle with Morricone score.
Other than Great Silence and Big Gundown i like Django ,Django Kill, Companeros and Face to Face.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on February 12, 2004, 03:20:08 PM
Don't get me wrong I'm not looking a carbon copy of Leone's story lines maybe its that I'm looking for just good production values.

I was thinking today about how the story may have been made a little more believable. Lets say the "gang of outlaws" who live up in the mountians walk over the top of the snow and feed on dead horses are instead a gang of cannibals who feed on dead travelers (or even kill and eat travelers) who have tried and failed to make it over the passes into Snow Hill.

That would make Klaus Kinsky and his band of bounty killers more believable, and it would make the reward offer understandable. The way its portrayed now the outlaws are just pathetic.

TGS also has the love scene between Silent and Penelope (that here name?) which was also daring at the time.

It would be nice if someone could could take a little time do some serious redubbing.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Smoker on February 13, 2004, 01:08:22 PM
Ravenous (1999) is worth a look if your into Cannibal Westerns.
A Antonia Bird film starring Guy Pearce (LA Confidential, Momento) Robert Carlyle. Its set in the Sierra Nevadas Mountains 1874.
Same bleak winter settings.
They nit in some interesting Native Indian Mystism about "Wendigo", a spirit who feeds on others with insatiable hunger.
but the second half is pure vampire movie.

(http://www.pacinfo.be/beelden/film/r/ravenous.jpg)

Its spoiled only by great but sometimes dodgy soundtrack.

But not bad rental movie.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on February 13, 2004, 05:11:14 PM
No, lol, I'm not into cannibal westerns I thought it would make the Great Silence a bit more believable with the cannibal angle.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Nobody on February 14, 2004, 05:12:50 AM
The film has been out of print for a while, but was recently re-released. I bought it, saw it, and loved it. Although i knew how the film would end, it didn't ruin the experience of watching it. Two questions though:

1 - In the interview on the dvd, Alex Cox claims that most people consider this to be the best spaghetti ever, better than Leone's. I've never seen it on any critics lists or anything like that, who is Alex talking about?

2 - I often have a hard time recognising Mario Brega without the beard. Who was he in this film? The guy who burnt Trintignant's hand? And by the way, who was Brega in "Once Upon A Time In America"?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Cusser on February 14, 2004, 09:29:12 AM
In Once/America Brega played Mandy (never called by name though) in a bit part at the very beginning, as one of the hoods trying to track down Noodles.  He has no beard there either, and is quite a bit thinner than in the Leone westerns.  You may need to stop-action freeze-frame.  A while back, someone posted a still on the board of this.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on February 14, 2004, 08:24:13 PM
I've watched it twice more now and it does grow on you, its a different and a more graffic style for sure, and if you take the raggedy outlaw scenario with a grain of salt, its a good spaghetti. Morricone's music also lingers in your mind.

It is a great Klaus Kinsky part, and if you liked his bit part in FADM you'll get a kick out of him here.

Quote
1 - In the interview on the dvd, Alex Cox claims that most people consider this to be the best spaghetti ever, better than Leone's. I've never seen it on any critics lists or anything like that, who is Alex talking about?

2 - I often have a hard time recognising Mario Brega without the beard. Who was he in this film? The guy who burnt Trintignant's hand? And by the way, who was Brega in "Once Upon A Time In America"?
 

Cusser's right Brega's at the beginning of OUTIA and he's Pollycut's assitant in TGS who burns Silent's hand.

As for Alex Cox, I think he's he's speaking to or for afficianado's of Spaghetti Westerns. A lot of people consider Leone a notch above your average Spag. For Example even Pocket Essentials "Spaghetti Westerns" considers Leone's OUTITW a "classic western", and not a Spag, lol.

TGS was a very shocking and different take on the genre for its time.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Nobody on February 15, 2004, 03:58:03 AM
I knew Brega's name was Mandy in OUATIA, and figured he probably was one of the hoods in the beginning. Now I know for sure. Thanks.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: DJIMBO on February 15, 2004, 12:53:38 PM
Brega looks completely different from his roles in the dollars trilogy. he plays the big fat one who says 'stay here with this barrel of shit' (regarding fat moe). He obviously learnt to speak his english lines unlike in dollars films.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Smoker on February 16, 2004, 01:56:21 PM
Posted on: February 12, 2004, 07:36:41 PM
Quote
Im sorry but i love The Great Silence. It was hyped to death for me. I had a friend bang on about it for a year.

But still it delivered something unqiue from Leone's world.
Jean Lous Trintignant is fantastic. And what a sucker punch ending.   I was reeling for 2 days after a first viewing.

OK ok i like Mauser Bolo pistols as well.    ;D


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: DJIMBO on April 17, 2004, 05:26:20 PM
got great silence imported from canada (im in bedford, uk) and i wasnt expecting a lot given the unjustified hype of django.

But it was brilliant. Though there were a few django-esque moments of appalling dialogue, the cinematography, the acting, the political unertones and the direction were all inspired.

before the great silence my theory was:

spaghetti western

minus sergio leone

equals so many lives wasted so badly


but it has to be rewritten: the Great Silence was fantastic.

PS Mario Brega played Martin, one of Policutt's hoods who burns Silence's hands.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: rddesq on April 23, 2004, 02:27:41 PM
I have recently ordered about 10 non-leone spag. westerns using the the "top 20 non-leone" spag. westerns as a guide.  I have seen Django, Django Kill, A Bullet for the General, Campanerios, Death Rides A Horse, Mannaja, Run Man Run and The Great Silence so far.  I have enjoyed all except Django and Django Kill which are far overated.  The DVD for Death Rides a Horse is horrible and detracted from the movie.  It looks like it is a DVD of the movie being shown on TV.  The Great Silence was my favorite so far.  The cinematography is fantastic and the opening sequence was great.  It reminded me of the lust for the gold sequence at the end of GBU with Tuco running through the graveyard.   I still have Texas Adios, Keoma and one other to watch.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: rddesq on April 23, 2004, 02:51:23 PM
I also watched Four of the Apocolypse which is simply horrible.  Non-sensical, meandering and pointless.  Don't waste your time.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on April 23, 2004, 07:37:47 PM
rddesq,
Thanks for the heads up on what to avoid, I'm thinking of getting a few more non-Leone spags myself. Let me know how Keoma is, I've seen 180 degree opposite calls on it. A lot of folks were turned off by the music, though some comapred it to Leonard Cohen in "McCabe & Mrs. Miller" which was ok in my book.
I got a copy of "Death Rides a Horse" on video grabed from cable its passable, not great. I wish they would put "The Big Gundown" on a R1 DVD.

Let us know what Texas Adios is like too, thanks.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: General Sibley on April 24, 2004, 03:22:39 AM
CJ, have any of you guys tried Netflix?  If a movie's been put on DVD, they have it in stock.  Your local video store is definitely not going to carry esoteric stuff like the spag's.

I rented "Bullet for the General" through them...well, let me just say that I'm glad I didn't buy it.  The madman Indio is the lead, and he looks really dissolute - you can tell he had some issues fighting with the bottle, he kind of mailed in this performance.  The movie had some pretty high production values though, it's beautifully shot.  I've got a few other spag's in the queue.  I think Django, some Trinity's & Great Silence are available.  My wife can't wait to watch these  ::)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: General Sibley on April 24, 2004, 03:24:22 AM
Oh - forgot to mention.  Netflix also has "Terror in a Texas Town"...be still my heart!


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Blueberry on April 29, 2004, 08:30:52 AM
I recently saw Keoma in a cult cinema club and .. sorry.. jeeez.. I don't know what to say other than .. that it's cult doesn't mean it's good - and this one sucks big time. A few good effects and that's it. Stay away from it would be my advice.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: DJIMBO on April 30, 2004, 04:31:05 AM
must warn u general sibley

Django's really not that great

i agree with blueberry just cos its cult it doesnt mean its any good

ok, there's some stylish cool touches like the gun in the coffin and django's whole persona

but, theres no plot, the dubbings atrocious, the dialogue is at times laughable, the violence is comic-book, and the best bits are stolen from fistful...im guessing most spaghettis r like this.

The Great Silence is much much better...Corbucci seems to have learnt a lot since Django and hes got better actors (Trintignant, Kinski and Pistilli) at his disposal.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: General Sibley on April 30, 2004, 07:57:16 AM
must warn u general sibley

Django's really not that great


Oh no, now what  :-\  The other spag's are pretty far down in my queue, after Bullet for the General I'm not in a big rush to go for the full marinara sauce immersion.  It was a struggle to sit through that movie, I might have to sedate myself with painkillers before I watch the next one.

After watching a couple of these non-Leone spag's you begin to understand why it took so long for Leone to get his proper critical respect.  Some of these movies are so unbelievably bad that the entire genre got a well-deserved reputation as rubbish.   Took quite a while for the stench to wear off.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: DJIMBO on April 30, 2004, 01:43:14 PM
put it this way...if u count my name is nobody as a leone western, ive only seen one non-leone spaghetti western that i would class as a good film. and that is great silence. but i have yet to see sergio sollima's 'chase trilogy' (big gundown, face to face, run man run) which are supposed to be pretty good.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on May 01, 2004, 09:49:38 AM
"The Big Gundown" was great, mind you I haven't seen it for over 30 years, but I ranked it high, better than "Death Rides A Horse." Lee Van Cleef played a roll that was very similar to Colonel Mortimer, that may have had something to do with it.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Nobody on May 02, 2004, 04:17:14 AM
I have seen several spaghettis that aren't great films, but I have yet to see one that I haven't enjoyed. But how can anyone call "Keoma" crap? I thought it was fantastic! It was so stylistic, and extremely entertaining, with a wonderful Franco Nero performance. I also loved "Four Of The Apocalypse", and although I can understand why people don't like this one (it's extremely dark), it includes one of the best Thomas Milian performances. He scared the living daylights out of me, and his character is one of the meanest and scariest characters I've ever seen on film, up there with Dennis Hopper in "Blue Velvet" and BOB in "Twin Peaks".

I have yet to see "The Big Gundown" and "Face To Face" though. Why will no one release them on dvd? I have heard so much great about them, and I loved Sollina's "Run, Man, Run".


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Smoker on May 02, 2004, 04:49:14 AM
Face to Face (Faccia a Faccia) is available in Japan from SPO (Macaroni Western Bible)
R2 NTSC Italian (You can hear Volonte's voice acting)/ Great vicious Morricone soundtrack, arguably one of his best.

The film is a wonderful quality, and the personality swap between Solomon, Tomas Milan (Bandit) & Brad, Gian Maria Volonte (Professor) is fantastic. Fascist allegory* runs wild, when the ambition lacking Professor realises the power he can wheeled in his hand & mind.

(http://www.strangeher.net/bennetts_raiders/gunshot.jpg)

I think Sollima had one up on Leone in 1967 (pre-OUATITW). In the depth of the charactors.* or maybe its just Volonte's El Indio has little of the depth that Brad Fletcher does, and nothing more...

Sony Pictures hold the rights to Big Gundown... well most of columbia pictures (UA/Grimbaldi Productions) which it was made by.

*Sollima denied alot the the political undercurrents in his work,  a Veteran of WWII. 'Faccia was purely 2 extreme personalities swapping'.

**Sollima also disliked the emotionless statuesque 'Man With No Name' Hero's of Leone's films... . . ..& Leone just didnt like Sollima's political films  ;D  


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Nobody on May 02, 2004, 05:41:20 AM
Thanka for the info. So far I've only found one store that sells this, www.cdjapan.co.jp , but it costs $43.90. Is there ant way I can get it cheaper? I also found an italian and a spanish release. Alas, no english audio. "The Big Gundown" has also been released in Italy.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Smoker on May 03, 2004, 08:12:43 AM
No there not cheap.. SPO are still a specialist DVD company. But DVDs in general are still a slightly expensive thing to be into in Japan..
So are the players.

The way i see it.. Ive never really payed full price for DVDs in general anyway with all the taxless (duty dodge) DVD internet stores around. Can't remember the last time i actually payed the norm... £19.99 for a Disc in HMV anyways... So what the hell, it was a treat.. . and well worth it.

http://global.yesasia.com/en/PrdDept.aspx/pid-1002796300/section-videos/code-j/version-all/did-6976/ (http://global.yesasia.com/en/PrdDept.aspx/pid-1002796300/section-videos/code-j/version-all/did-6976/)

Yesasia.com i went with. Because there postage is fast to UK. (faster than Amazon.JP)



Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: DJIMBO on May 04, 2004, 04:51:11 AM
i just wonder how much we value these non-leone spaghettis based on whether morricone scored them, because Great Silence has a good ennio score and it sounds like Big Gundown and Face to Face do too, so perhaps these mediocre films are enhanced by Morricone.

But then i spose ur going into the realms of how much leone was reliant on morricone...


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: redyred on May 04, 2004, 04:59:57 AM
I saw the Great Silence the other day, and it was pretty amazing. I have to agree with Alex Cox's commentary on the DVD that it's probably the saddest ending of any film. It certainly felt like that for a spaghetti western fan. For that reason I wouldn't say it was my favourite non-Leone SW, although it was a lot more sophisticated than the average spaghetti. The DVD also contained the alternative happy ending, which was pretty bizarre, featuring the apparently dead sheriff (Frank Wolff's character) suddenly returning to save the day.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Smoker on May 04, 2004, 05:16:03 PM
i just wonder how much we value these non-leone spaghettis based on whether morricone scored them, because Great Silence has a good ennio score and it sounds like Big Gundown and Face to Face do too, so perhaps these mediocre films are enhanced by Morricone.

But then i spose ur going into the realms of how much leone was reliant on morricone...

Id totally agree with you DJIMBO about non-Leone Spaghetti's. Hes so ingrained into it.

Morricone on the Companero's DVD interview. Mentioned that he had different stylings for each director Leone, Corbucci, Sollima.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: UNKNOWN GRAVE on May 09, 2004, 05:01:17 PM
Couldn't figure out how to do the quotes right ... but Cigar Joe said
""The Big Gundown" was great, mind you I haven't seen it for over 30 years, but I ranked it high, better than "Death Rides A Horse." Lee Van Cleef played a roll that was very similar to Colonel Mortimer, that may have had something to do with it. "

I just got the western channel for free and The Big Gundown was on.  Too bad it was not widescreen as some shots seemed awkward.  But i enjoyed it a lot.  I haven't seen any  other spaghettis other than Leone so after seeing this post I checked it out and enjoyed it a lot.  Reminded me a little of The Fugitive with Harrison Ford and Tommy Lee Jones. It could have been better but yes I think I did enjoy it because it was like seeing the "system" of Col. Mortimer!!!


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on May 10, 2004, 04:39:34 AM
I don't have "the Western Channel" :-[  I'm waiting to hopefully get a DVD of it.

Thanks for reviving my memories of it.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: DJIMBO on May 10, 2004, 05:34:54 AM
It really annoys me that The Big Gundown and Face to Face (supposedly Sollima's best two spaghettis) have never been released on English DVD. Big Gundown's never even been shown on British TV


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: DJIMBO on June 03, 2004, 05:09:52 AM
i maybe completely off-kilter here, but those of you who have heard The Great Silence theme tune by Morricone, do you think it sounds quite alot like a recent song by Travis (i dont know how big Travis r in the US).

I think the song is Love Will Come Through but im not sure. But there is certainly the guitar part is stolen straight from Morricone and another example of his timeless influence, tho im not sure Travis would admit it. :)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Hippieoddball1 on June 03, 2004, 10:59:01 AM
I was actually watching a programme a few years ago about Travis. And they were looking for a new song to go out on the stage to when they play live because they were sick of the song they were using. Then they were all in their tour bus and Fran Healy, the lead singer, said they had found one and they were playing it on the bus and it was Titoli from AFOD, and they were all doing the sound effects to the whips, etc. So maybe they are fans of Morricone, but i doubt it because their shit. At the time they looked like they had just stumbled upon this CD with the song on it because none of them seemed to know whne the whips and that came in, they were just acting like drunken idiots. But who knows.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Smoker on June 04, 2004, 04:53:02 PM
(http://website.lineone.net/~braithwaitej/mainsite/images/grtsil/grtsil%203e.jpg)

The Great Silence is coming out in the UK in August on Eureka DVD Region 2 PAL. Looks the the same as Coppla's Zoetrope release (Alt ending, Trailer etc..). But includes a Italian Audio track.



Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: DJIMBO on June 05, 2004, 04:58:12 AM
i bought the R1 version anyway. wonder if the recording quality will be better than the shoddy R1 version. i doubt it because it is somewhat of a lost film and fantoma did well to seek it out really.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: General Sibley on June 11, 2004, 08:31:00 AM
Well, finally got through The Great Silence.  Took me 4 days of watching it in bits and pieces, it was incredibly dull and I couldn't sit through more than half an hour of it at a time.  I found myself nodding off each time it was on, and had to switch over to baseball to wake up - and if a movie is duller than baseball that's not a good thing.  But once I pay, I always see the job through.

Jeez, how many times does Corbucci have to have a  5 minute long shot of horses stumbling through the snow?  Horses struggle, but then a stagecoach manages to get through mountain passes on a freshly plowed trail - uh, ok.  One time at the beginning is cool to set the scene, but after that it just begins to look like the director ran out of ideas and he's scrambling for film to stretch the movie out to 90 minutes.  

And the outlaws in the hills - what the hell was that about  :-\  They stumbled around like zombies from Night of the Living Dead most of the time, not a particularly scary bunch.  And the mute lead character - not charismatic in the least, dull as dishwater.  I wish they would have shot him sooner maybe the movie would have started moving then.  That Vonetta McGee woman was pretty hot though  ;D

It seems like the whole movie was going through the motions just to get to the big surprise ending.   That end was kind of cheating, there was no foreshadowing beforehand - but I guess Silence did deserve to die because he was so damn uninteresting.   Even Morricone seemed to mail it in, just pasting in the identical theme music each time they got into the outdoor snow shots no matter how the circumstances had changed.

But Klaus Kinski was really good as usual - no one does a better psychopath.  The Frank Wolff character was plain silly.  I don't know, I tried to like it but I thought it was a load of shite.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: DJIMBO on June 11, 2004, 11:33:49 AM
General

thinking about it you are right in many things you say
Ok, i dont rate Corbucci particularly highly, i think Django's crap.
But The Great Silence, though trying at times, is incredibly distinctive and i thought at times inspired, though cheap.
Sorry, disagree with u bout Silence - brilliant casting to put a mute in the lead role especially Trintignant who's a great actor.
It's not as good as Leone, but hey, who is?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: General Sibley on June 11, 2004, 12:15:02 PM
Well, like I said I tried to like it - but I did NOT find it inspired, in fact I found it derivative and a cheap Leone ripoff.

- Let's get a stoic lead, but we'll make him the ultimate stoic.  I got it, let's make him a mute!

- Let's get Morricone to do the soundtrack.  But now he wants too much money, so we'll give him a couple of lira to just slightly alter his score for OUTITW.  Then we'll just paste the same score in endlessly through the movie.

- Let's blur the line between the good guys and bad guys.  So our lead will do some senseless maiming right at the start, like shooting off some loser's thumbs.

- Let's copy Leone's longs.  To make them kind of interesting lets show horses and humans struggling through the snow.  And then lets repeat this 8 times during the movie.

I could go on.  But what mainly pissed me off about this movie is he tried to steal Leone's formula but he left out the most important part.  THE PASSION.  Leone loved making movies, he loved his stories, he loved his scenery and he loved his characters - this last is the most important.  You can tell he even loved AngelEyes and Indio and Ramon.  This Corbucci is a total misanthrope - he hates his characters, and he really disliked and disrespected his audience:  "You want spaghetti western, I give you spaghetti western you pigs"  The ending is the ultimate insult.

-



Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: DJIMBO on June 12, 2004, 01:21:34 PM
ha ha lol ;D

When you make a film with an ending so negative you are going to alienate people. i thought it had a wholly different atmosphere from Leone but it does steal certain elements. it is better than standard cheap Spaghetti Western fare.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Smoker on June 12, 2004, 02:56:55 PM
- Let's get Morricone to do the soundtrack.  But now he wants too much money, so we'll give him a couple of lira to just slightly alter his score for OUTITW.  Then we'll just paste the same score in endlessly through the movie.
The Great Silence was made before OUTITW.
I could go on.  But what mainly pissed me off about this movie is he tried to steal Leone's formula but he left out the most important part.  THE PASSION.  Leone loved making movies, he loved his stories, he loved his scenery and he loved his characters - this last is the most important.  You can tell he even loved AngelEyes and Indio and Ramon.  This Corbucci is a total misanthrope - he hates his characters, and he really disliked and disrespected his audience:  "You want spaghetti western, I give you spaghetti western you pigs"  The ending is the ultimate insult.
Just love how that ending pisses people off. every time ;D


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: General Sibley on June 13, 2004, 04:50:52 AM
If director's intent was to provoke a reaction it worked - 50 replies on this thread.  I still think it's shite  ;D  Alex Cox should be ashamed of himself, how much did they pay him to do that commentary?  But he's forgiven, he gave us "Repo Man".


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on June 13, 2004, 04:07:22 PM
General, I think you have to reserve judgement and check out the rest of the genre, there are many many other SW's far, far worse, lower than whale shite if that's possible. lol.

As you view the rest of the crap you may thank the gods that Leone could transend the lot and may think better of The Great Silence and some of the rest of the top twenty.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: DJIMBO on June 14, 2004, 03:03:03 AM
Now i'll tell what is shite - the alternate 'happy ending' included on the disc where the Sheriff (Frank Wolff) remarkably comes back from the dead to save Silence and kill Loco's band.

Of the two endings i know which was better. :)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Nobody on June 14, 2004, 07:24:12 AM
Yep, that other ending was terrible. Glad they didn't use it.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: General Sibley on June 14, 2004, 09:36:30 AM
I think I'm gonna go low carb, no more spags for awhile - not good for the digestion.  Back to Great Silence: if you like this because of the shocker ending (it's only redeeming quality IMO) that still respects the audience you should get the orginal "Get Carter" with Michael Caine (NOT the Stallone version!).  Directed by Mike Hodges - great British gangster flick.  Also has very low opinion of humanity, but director still cares for his characters.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: redyred on June 14, 2004, 10:18:18 AM
One thing about Great Silence - the Mario Brega character getting his face burned off was good fun.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: General Sibley on June 14, 2004, 12:03:07 PM
One thing about Great Silence - the Mario Brega character getting his face burned off was good fun.

That was pretty good - at least he had the sense to stick his head in a snow bank  ;D


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on June 14, 2004, 04:31:01 PM
Hey General, its funny you mentioned Get Carter, I was going to do a post saying how much we lost over the course of time with the demise of the 60's & 70's.

I happend to watch both versions almost back to back and the original is much superior to Stallone's remake.

It must be the ratings systems, striving for a PG-13, what a load of crap. No T&A or naked women in Stallones movie pretty bland stuff. What a difference from the freewheeling 60-70 period.

And of course the ending, all we get today is predictable crap, with clone sequils if they are successful.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: redyred on June 17, 2004, 10:49:01 AM
If director's intent was to provoke a reaction it worked - 50 replies on this thread.  I still think it's shite  ;D  Alex Cox should be ashamed of himself, how much did they pay him to do that commentary?  But he's forgiven, he gave us "Repo Man".

I had a great deal of respect for Alex Cox, until I bought Django Strikes Again (the "official" Django sequal) a few weeks ago. The box featured quotes from him praising the film saying it was "comparable to Unforgiven". In fact it was one of the biggest piles of crap I've ever sat through. It also made me lose respect for Franco Nero. I would say it was my least favourite spaghetti western, but that would really be stretching the term spaghetti western. It was basically a 3rd rate attempt at a bad 80s action film, which happened to occasionally have Franco Nero firing a Gatling gun, bearing as little resemblance to the original Django as possible. Anyone else seen this turd?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Smoker on June 17, 2004, 01:27:33 PM
Its Keoma thats Unforgiven its unkanny by story in places. And yes Django Strikes Again is absolute dribble. Joes right Its 80s Action movie (Commando, Mad Max 2, Rambo you name it)
Great Silence is Eastwood's Joe Kid. both set in snowy settings.. bolo pistols all round.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: rddesq on June 18, 2004, 06:16:29 PM
First Django and Django Kill both are dribble and are only worth watching if you want to be a "student" of Spag. Westerns.  Both are way overated.  As such it's no surprise that Django Strikes Agains is bad.  However, I must comment on Keoma.  I have watched about 15 non-leone Spag. Westerns and I keep coming back to Keoma.  It is really good and I think what keeps drawing me back is the sound track and the vocals.  The singing by the operatic women and the deep bass male vocal is haunting.  It is not a Morricone score but it really sticks in your head.  Next to The Great Silence I think I would put Keome maybe number 2 on my personal non-leone list so far.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: DJIMBO on June 19, 2004, 01:58:30 AM
ive heard that keoma is one to see cheers rddesq


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Tucster on June 19, 2004, 04:22:42 AM
Keoma is a good flick...but the singing is scary!


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on June 19, 2004, 04:34:33 AM
I receieved Keoma about a week ago with A Man Called Sledge and A Bullet for the General.
I couldn't play Keoma the DVD would just say reading and never play it sent it back and awating a replacement looking forward to giving you my critique.

I've heard +& - about the soundtrack. If it's like Leonard Cohen's soundtrack for McCabe & Mrs. Miller it will be ok with me :)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on June 19, 2004, 04:41:48 AM
Quote
Jeez, how many times does Corbucci have to have a  5 minute long shot of horses stumbling through the snow?  Horses struggle, but then a stagecoach manages to get through mountain passes on a freshly plowed trail - uh, ok.  

Well I noticed this also, lol. I do know that they used (at least in the eastern US) to have the county road crews actually put snow on the roads in the wintertime. They'd have horsedrawn plows and a snow packer, but they were doing this for horse drawn sleighs (which most folks used in the winter) which makes sense. Don't know about Utah or the rest of the West but it is plausible that they may have kept some of the roads open with crews.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: DJIMBO on June 26, 2004, 04:47:35 PM
i just think that the root of the problems of all these Spaghetti Westerns is that they are B-movies. Leone manages to transcend the genre whereas Corbucci and Barboni dont. Havent seen Sollima's films so i cant judge on him but the cheap element of Spags does ruin them.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on June 27, 2004, 05:45:10 AM
Latest update, had to send Keoma back twice first to Bestbuy second time back to Anchor Bay, it just wouldn't start on either the JVC or the Sony Viao I'm typing this in on.



Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: mortimer on June 27, 2004, 11:59:45 PM
Had a few problems with a rental bullet for the general  but keoma and 4 of the apocolypse played fine. Hopefully when my copy  of bullett..general and companeros get here from deep discount dvd they work!


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: 833P on December 31, 2004, 01:01:43 PM
 Does anyone know if this was based on a true incident? I downloaded the Italian version of the film and added English subtitles. Oddly at the end of the film some German captions roll up outlining some kind of incident which took place in 1898. From what I can make out they refer to golddiggers, athough gold is not mentioned in the film. Anyone know the history of this?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on December 31, 2004, 01:14:59 PM
I asked the same thing nobody seems to know, it may be just fiction, I guess a check of Utah history may be in order.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: DJIMBO on January 01, 2005, 07:53:08 AM
i think Corbucci would have used some poetic licence there to get his Marxist message across - but you never know it could be based on a real event.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: 833P on January 01, 2005, 09:41:32 AM
I misunderstood the word Kopfgeldjäger. Apparently it translates as bounty hunter. 
Quote
"Die Massaker von 1898, dem Jahr der grossen Schneesturme, führten zu ciner entscheiden öffentlichen Verurteilung der Kopfgeldjäger, die unter dem Mantel der Legalität aus brutalem Mord ein einträgliches Geschäft gemacht hatten.

Viele Jahre lang stand in Snow Hill eine Mahntafel, die folgende Aufschrifte trug :
Die stiefel der männer können 1000 jahre lang den staub dieses ortes aufwirbeln. Aber nichts wird jemals die blutflecken der armen menschen auslöschen, die hier umgekommen sind."
"The massacres of 1898, the year the large snowstorm, led to one decide public condemnation of the head money hunters, that had made a lucrative business under the coat of the legality from brutal murder.  Many years long stood in Snow Hill a reminding board, which carried the following label:  The boots of the men can 1000 years long the dust of this place whirl up.  But nothing will ever extinguish blood marks of poor humans, who died here."


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Sensei on January 01, 2005, 11:46:28 AM
On my DVD (http://www.play.com/play247.asp?page=title&r=R2&title=171526&p=57&g=72) the text is in Italian and the translation is as follows:
The massacre of 1898, the year of the Great Cold, raised the public condemnation of the bounty hunters who, in a climate of false legality, made violence a way of life. An inscription was legible for years in Snow Hill, the area of the massacre: MAN MAY WALK OVER THIS PLACE FOR A THOUSAND YEARS BUT WILL NEVER WIPE OUT THE BLOOD OF THOSE WHO FELL.

There is also an alternate "happy ending" on the DVD where the sheriff comes riding in. Together with Silence he saves all the prisoners held by Kinski and his gang. There''s a note saying:
This "happy ending" was originally created for Asian and North African markets, where the producers felt audiences wouldn''t tolerate such a grim finale. No sound elements were available and there is some question as to whether any audio was ever created.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on January 01, 2005, 01:12:22 PM
There is no town existing now that''s called Snow Hill in Utah, and in the film Frank Wolff was going to take Klaus Kinsky to a jail in Tonopah, now Nevada. Now I think Utah Territory included both states, but there is no Snow Hill in Neveda either.

Actually there were a number of Unionizing Wars and a massacre of striking miners and their families that happened around this time period late 1880''s through 1920 that this may be loosely based on.

Ludlow Massacre 1914

Near Trinidad, in Southern Colorado the Rockerfeller owned Colorado Fuel & Iron Company''s mine workers tried to unionize under the UMWA. The company sent in the Baldwin Felts Dectective Agency (basically hire guns) to break up the organizing activities. They gunned down the union organizer and the mineres went on strike. Since they were striking they were violently evicted from the company homes they were living in. They took to the surrounding hills and set up tent camps. The Baldwin Felts then used an armored car equiped with a Browing Colt (potato digger) machine gun to do a drive by and terrorize the miners, they dug rifle pits inside the tents and continued fighting throught the winter. In the spring Rockerfeller had the Governor send in the state militia. The striking miners at first thought that the militia was there to protect them but the militia took up positions above the tent camps. At the biggest tent camp at Ludlow the militia opened fire with more machine guns an 11 year old boy trying to get water for his family was gun downed.

A freight train that stopped on a siding between the Militia and the tent camp enabled a lot of the women & children to escape abord the train. An attemp by the miners for a truce was attempted but the negotiator was clubbed and shot as he reached the militia. That evening the militia entered the tent city and set fire to the canvas. By morning it was a smouldering ruin. Two women and eleven children were found dead in a pit under a metal cot. It was known as the Ludlow Massacre in all 66 miners were killed.

The news of the massacre put pressure on both Rockerfeller (negative publicity), and  Pres. Wilson to send in the regular army to defuse the situation.

It was on Wild West Tech on the History Channel not too long ago.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: indio on January 06, 2005, 12:53:32 AM
i''m thinking of buying this film i here the soundtrack is good but how does it rate as a film?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: DJIMBO on January 06, 2005, 02:36:25 AM
i''''m thinking of buying this film i here the soundtrack is good but how does it rate as a film?

opinion seems to be split here, indio.

Personally i think its the best non-leone spaghetti western, which perhaps isnt saying alot, lol! But i love it. Its better than Big Gundown, Keoma and infinitely better than Django.

It depends what u like really, its very pessimistic, its clearly Marxist, tho it has a funny sheriff. Morricone''s music is great, and the landscapes are wonderful. And the lead actors are great too. The dialogues a bit dodge but overall its far better than ur average spaghetti.

i recommend it, and i think u can now buy it in the UK, tho i got my copy from canadia.  ;D


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: visitor on January 06, 2005, 04:25:31 AM
I love Morricone''s score.
The setting is fantastic.
Good/great photograpy.
Fine to excellent cast.

Highly overrated movie.

It''s most known for its downer ending, but since  the ending makes no sense whatsoever as far as the character of Silence is concerned, it spoils the movie.
It''s the reverse of the "Hollywood" tacked on happy endings of the old days.

"Let''s kill him for shock value!"

"Good. Then I don''t have to worry about a sequel!"

This is proven by the "outtake" happy ending finale with written dialogue spoken by the actors. Though this scene was never dubbed(as all Italian films were recorded silently) it was obviously well thought out, staged and shot. The claim that it was for the North African audience seem hollow to me.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on January 06, 2005, 05:12:35 AM
My only complaint is the "outlaws" are never really explained, it makes no sense in that respect. Why are there bounties on their heads?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: DJIMBO on January 06, 2005, 05:13:38 AM
i dont think its a great film, i just think its a good film. And i think credit to Corbucci for trying something different and not reverting to the cheesy rubbish in Django. Isnt that what cinema is all supposed to be about, trying something different??


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: indio on January 06, 2005, 06:37:30 AM
ok thanks i think i will buy it . it seems to have a lot of the elements that i like. i don''t really like happy endings although i didn''t know the end so thank you!!
my personal favorite non leone is Keoma.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Cusser on January 06, 2005, 07:39:15 AM
I got my Great Silence DVD from Ebay, but later found that my local mall video store had two new DVDs of it for sale (Arizona). 


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on January 06, 2005, 10:13:13 AM
Indio if you like Keoma you''ll like this, also check out McCabe & Mrs. Miller.

It sort runs like this TGS influenced M&MM and later Joe Kidd, then M&MM influenced Keoma. If you get all three (4 if you get JK) you''ll have a nice little triptych.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: indio on January 06, 2005, 11:35:57 AM
Thanks Joe.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: redyred on January 06, 2005, 03:53:36 PM
My only complaint is the "outlaws" are never really explained, it makes no sense in that respect. Why are there bounties on their heads?

I think that''s deliberately not revealed - for example Kinski says something like "... if they were acquitted then everyone would be free to do... er, whatever you call it". The way I see it Corbucci''s point is that they have been labelled "outlaws", and for the purposes of the film they need not be anything else.

In an interview Alex Cox says (in passing, as if it''s obvious) that they''re mormons, although I can''t see any evidence for that.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on January 06, 2005, 04:40:40 PM
Basically this film was made for Italo/ European audience so I don''t think it mattered much to Corbucci to go into a whole explanation of WHY.  To an American audience (like me) that part matters more because we look for some kind of link to something that may have really happened.

The Spaghetti West is another dimension a twilight zone parallel universe, a place where things just are, distances and time are bent, place names are thrown in wierd juxtapositions. Its a tight compact little world where everthing especially the small things are exagerated.

Its almost as if the great lot of SW directors or their audiences had no clue that the whole vastness of American West  approximately 2,000 by 2,000 miles could not posssibly fit in a country the size of Spain or Italy though the films usually don''t express these great distances.

ie., in Corbucci''s "Companeros" Ft. Yuma is in Texas, this wouldn''t  mean anything to a Euro audience.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: indio on January 11, 2005, 01:34:50 AM
i just watched this film... wow much better than i thought it was going to be. i loved the fact it was in the snow, what a great soundtrack.
the ending was a shocker, but i watched ''the happy ending on the dvd'' and thought it so lame, really cheesey, better as it is. top stuff.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on January 11, 2005, 04:05:26 AM
There''s more out there if your game, lots of  good SW''s to choose from that most never heard of.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Smoker on January 11, 2005, 06:10:43 AM
Find myself quite drawn to movies set in snowy sparse surroundings.

The Thing (Carpenter 1982)
Sword of Doom
Fargo
Doctor Zhivago
Fearless Vampire Killers
Empire Strikes Back
Samurai Assassin
The Great Silence


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: indio on January 11, 2005, 08:20:59 AM
great snow fight scene in sword of doom! the film lost its way towards the end.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: dave jenkins on January 12, 2005, 09:01:56 PM
great snow fight scene in sword of doom! the film lost its way towards the end.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. The ending of SoD is perfect.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Blueberry on January 13, 2005, 02:13:40 AM
Find myself quite drawn to movies set in snowy sparse surroundings.

Could I just add "A simple plan" to that list? Snow, noir-like, great acting, good plot.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Smoker on January 13, 2005, 04:30:24 AM
Wrong, wrong, wrong. The ending of SoD is perfect.

I second that.. Its snowing for christsake  ;D


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: spag fan on March 07, 2005, 09:04:22 AM
I finally saw this one this weekend. While the snow shots were quite nice to look at, and the character of the Sherriff was well played, the movie didn't live up to my expectations. Kinski was fine, but the dubbing was quite bad overall. Not bad, but not nearly as good as Corbucci's Companeros IMHO.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Marco Leone on March 07, 2005, 01:53:29 PM
I personally think that The Great Silence is Corbucci's masterpiece.  In my opinion the only Spaghetti Westerns better are Good the Bad & the Ugly and For a Few Dollars More.  Its on a par with Once Upon a Time in the West.

I'm gradually building my collection of SW's up (its about 65 so far, only another 500 or so to go hahaha), and you realise that there are some real hidden gems out there, and some which should have been buried alot deeper!

To me, the Great Silence has the most shocking, grim ending of any film ever made.  And that should be something that is applauded, in a world that craves films like Titanic, Scary Movie and the Last Samuri.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on March 07, 2005, 04:15:00 PM
Ok halfsoldier, give us some hidden gems and why they are so I'd be interested in adding to my small collection.

What I have so far besides Leone, are:
TGS
TBG
DRAH
Day Of Anger
Companero's
The Mercenary
Cemetery without Crosses
A Man Called Sledge
Navajo Joe
Tepepa
A Bullet for The General
Blindman
Mannaja A man Called Blade
Face To Face
A Minute To Pray A Second To Die
Run Man Run


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Fortean on March 08, 2005, 01:24:22 PM
Speaking of movies that take place in different environments, what about The Missing?

That goes through most Western environments. Silverado touches most of them as well.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on March 19, 2005, 06:33:19 AM
Its a good SW, its not Leone, but its different and you'll see Corbucci in an evolving style between Django and The Mercenary/Companero's.

Its, if you want to compare it to something familiar say Leone Films (production value wise) where we go chronologically AFFOD-FAFDM-GBU-OUTITW, The Great Silence would fall comparably still in the AFFOD phase edging towards FAFDM.

(Corbucci's The Mercenary & Companero's would fall in to GBU catagory)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Marco Leone on March 20, 2005, 03:57:17 PM
Well Cigar, I would certainly recommend The Hellbenders.  Its another Corbucci one - not everyone agrees, but I think its a classic.  Johnny Yuma is really good.  I'm struggling to think of which ones you mentioned now, but a few of the more obscure that are def worth checking out are Keoma, Jonathan of the Bears, Payment in Blood, Vengence, Return of Ringo.

I've started up a site (its still in progress) showing all the SWs I've seen and more.  It is quite in its infancy, but is at http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/spaghettiwesterns


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on March 20, 2005, 08:03:05 PM
I'll check it out halfsoldier,  ;)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Marco Leone on March 31, 2005, 11:37:17 AM
Well, I have just got around to adding a review to this film on my site.  Here goes -

"This is Sergio Corbucci's masterpiece. A story of revenge, with an ending so "un-hollywood" it will remain in your memory for ever. And it may be unjust, and leave a very bitter taste. But it is a classic finale to a fantastic film.

The story sets itself in the aptly snow laden town of Snow Hill, and its mountainous surroundings. Bounty Hunters are preying off of the outlaws held up within the mountains - the most notorious of which is Loco, played by Klaus Kinski. The wife of one of the slain outlaws hires the mysterious mute gunslinger Silence (Jean-Louis Trintignant) to exact revenge on Loco. I will spoil the story no more - as you MUST see this one for yourself.

Kinski, always adept in the part of a mad-man, steals the show in probably his most perfect spaghetti western role. There are also fine parts for spaghetti stalwarts Luigi Pistilli, Mario Brega and Frank Wolff. Morricone's score is, as ever, beautiful. Trintignant must have had one of the easiest parts of any actors anywhere - "just look cool, and don't say a thing". That said, he does it well.

The film makes use of its flashbacks with style, explaining the link between Silence and Pollicut (Pistilli) characters. It also deals with the brief and doomed relationship between Silence and the outlaw's widow with great compassion, amidst the bloodbath that we come to expect from Corbucci.

All in all, a classic film - the best non-Leone Spaghetti Western".


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Marco Leone on March 31, 2005, 11:49:09 AM
Cigar Joe - I was having another look through that list of yours, and was going to suggest a few others that I think are particularly good that may be worth your eye. 

The Grand Dual (which is another Lee Van Cleef one, with a great Bacalov score - as used in Kill Bill); 

The Ruthless Four (with Kinski - very slow, but a really decent film);

Any Gun Can Play (worth it for the Nero, Eastwood and Cleef send-up at the beginning);

Django the Bastard (think High Plains Drifter).

If you are looking for more SW's, I'd definately recommend these!



Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on March 31, 2005, 04:24:36 PM
Thanks Marco as soon as I get some extra cash I'll start collecting again.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: spag fan on March 31, 2005, 04:43:19 PM
Cool. I just ordered Any Gun Can Play. I'm looking forward to seeing it. I've heard good things about it in general.

Ditto on Hellbenders. I think Anchor Bay's releasing it this year. All I've got now is the poor Brentwood copy. Great flick!


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Marco Leone on April 01, 2005, 03:00:13 AM
Hellbenders is in my Top Ten favourites.  Any Gun Can Play doesn't make the Top Ten, but is good fun.  Quite different from the other Castellari films.  Nice score too.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: HEX on September 22, 2005, 06:03:31 PM
to cusser



kinski's gun was wraped in deer skins. therefore it was warm enough to fire.
that was explained about 30 minutes into the movie( the whole keep youre gun warnm by doing this)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on September 23, 2005, 04:34:32 AM
Not so much keep it warm as keep the condensation off it. Its the condensation on the metal that freezes that will make it inoperable. If you take a gun directly out of a warm enviroment (say a house) and expose it to cold air immediately water droplets form on the barrel, etc., etc. Its best to let a cased gun sit out and cool gradually to air temp before removing it from its case.

In the film keeping a gun next to your warm body and exposing it to the air would work the same way, so you have to keep it at least dry.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: HEX on September 24, 2005, 09:41:09 AM
thanks again CJ


for youre infinte knowledge in firearms


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: skeleton king on September 24, 2005, 09:10:13 PM
how do u put the picture?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on September 25, 2005, 06:25:47 AM
upload a pic to ImageShack then paste link in this window braketed by image html (second row second box of (add BBC tags) above this window.


http://imageshack.us/index.php



Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Leone Admirer on September 25, 2005, 12:59:51 PM
Booked my ticket to see this at the LFF. Can't wait to see it with the intro by Sir Christopher Frayling (plus I havent seen the movie yet)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Marco Leone on September 25, 2005, 01:06:17 PM
You are in for a treat.  The best non-Leone SW in my opinion.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Christopher on September 26, 2005, 01:13:57 PM
I watched The Great Silence last night. I liked it. Very different from many of the other spaghetti's I've seen.

I was looking it up and I saw the DVD has an alternate ending (R1, at least). I wonder how the movie would play with that.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Tim on September 26, 2005, 09:01:29 PM
  I think the alternate ending is ridiculous.  Out of nowhere, Frank Wolff comes in guns a-blazin!  How ridiculous can you get?  The real downer ending is one of the best and most shocking endings I've ever seen.

  Just imagine seeing the Great Silence for the first time with the alternate ending.  I can imagine walking out of the theater disappointed. 

  I've discovered that recently.  I'm not a big fan of happy endings.  Give me a downer ending any day of the week.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: titoli on December 25, 2005, 05:17:59 PM
I am reading Laurence Staig's and Tony Williams's old work on italian western and mention it is made of a more conventional ending for the french release of Corbucci's movie because the one generally known was  found to be too much of a shock. Can anybody add anything more?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Banjo on December 26, 2005, 03:42:23 AM
Titoli,have you not seen the alternate "happy" ending-without audio-on the Great Silence DVD?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on December 26, 2005, 06:23:46 AM
its included on the extras


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: titoli on December 26, 2005, 07:25:27 AM
no, i don't own that edition. thanx anyway!!


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Banjo on December 26, 2005, 08:05:31 AM
Yeau Titoli in the silent alternate ending the "still alive"sheriff(Frank Wolff) appears on a horse from nowhere just when you think Loco and his mob are about to finish of Silence stooping around in the snow and together they kill Loco and co,the townsfolk are saved, before Silence reveals a piece of glove armour over his injured hand and together with all the cheesy grins they all live happily ever after!!
Although i don't particularly relish the downbeat ending it is still preferable to the alternative.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: titoli on December 26, 2005, 10:12:59 AM
Hmmm...I'm not so sure about it. I like happy endings.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Tim on December 26, 2005, 01:52:20 PM
  I always thought the alternate happy ending was pretty ridiculous.  Just the way Frank Wolff reappears with no explanation as how he survived the fall through the ice makes me cringe.  And it just doesn't seem to fit with the tone of the movie.  Silence smiling with the sheriff and Vonetta McGee seems forced to me.

  I'll stick with the downbeat ending.  I've seen the movie four or five times and that ending still surprises me cause you never see movies end like this.  I give a lot of credit to Corbucci for making an ending like this.

  titoli, check back with us if you see the alternate happy ending so we can hear your thoughts about it.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: titoli on December 26, 2005, 02:57:09 PM
Surely will.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Poggle on December 26, 2005, 03:13:47 PM
That's why I never leave home without some glove armor ;)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 27, 2005, 04:57:47 AM
When I saw the film in its Theatrical Prem in london, they had the alternate ending of the film at the end of the print and it was scored with the marvelous theme.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Banjo on December 28, 2005, 12:18:37 PM
I watched my Great Silence DVD last night and after the ending but before the credits roll a reference is made to an 1898 massacre by bounty killers on Snow Hill so i guess that the movie was loosely based on fact and therefore has a realistically sad ending!


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Christopher on December 28, 2005, 05:31:57 PM
I had heard about a "downbeat ending" before I saw the movie, so the ending didn't surprise me too much, thought it is still very powerful. I bet audiences who hadn't heard about the sad ending were blown away by it. I have this movie on tape from IFC, and I've thought about watching it again. It does seem to be a unique Spaghetti. I'd like to see the alternative ending too. I wonder if the filmmakers had any pressure on them to end it with the happy ending.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on December 28, 2005, 09:26:58 PM
There was a Ludlow Massacre in Colorado during a miners strike in 1913 and other violent labor confrontations, but no Snow Hill and nothing in Utah, that was made up I'm pretty sure by Corbucci.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Banjo on December 29, 2005, 04:10:53 AM
And Woody Guthrie wrote a famous folk song to describe the Ludlow Massacre!!!


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Leone Admirer on January 09, 2006, 10:28:54 AM
My copy of this film has just arrived. The Fantoma edition looks excellent and I can't wait to experience it again after enjoying it so in the theatre.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on January 09, 2006, 04:54:59 PM
Enjoy, then when you get a chance try and watch "TGS" then "McCabe & Mrs. Miller", then "Joe Kid" then "Keoma". Its a fun little exercise.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Leone Admirer on January 10, 2006, 05:53:46 AM
Mr Cox doesn't have a very high opinion of Joe Kid in the liner notes does he.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Tim on April 23, 2006, 11:45:47 AM
  This is a topic that's been covered a ton of times here before, but I felt like I had to bring it up.

  I watched TGS this week, and once again was blown away by the ending, even though I've seen it 10-15 times before.  I think just because we're so used to seeing the typical, happy ending it makes this ending more effective.  Even after Silence gets his hand burned and then his other hand is shot, I still found myself thinking "Eh, he'll be ok, he'll get Loco."  And then there's that long shot on Kinski's face before he pulls out the gun and kills Silence.  God, what a great ending.

  And I put up a topic at imdb, but I felt like posting it here too.  TGS trailer on the dvd is great.  It uses footage of the original unhappy ending and the alternate happy ending, which doesn't bother me, but I thought it was funny.  And right at the end of the trailer, there's a shot of Silence, looks like outside of the saloon, and footage from the happy ending TALKING!   :o Has anyone else noticed this?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on April 23, 2006, 01:33:05 PM
and footage from the happy ending TALKING!   :o Has anyone else noticed this?


it was probably some footage that was shot in between shots.


Tim If you like this film you will Love "Cemetery Without Crosses". This has a very interesting ending.

Also I think a more interesting ending than "Silence" is the end of "Bullet for a General". That ending is worth discussing as well.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Peacemaker on April 23, 2006, 02:07:43 PM
I heard Jean Louis Trintignant's actual voice while he was playing Silence. Now before all of you assume that I'm a madman, let me explain. On the Run Man Run DVD there's an extra documentary made in the 60's about the spaghetti western craze. There is an interview with Jean and he talks in French with an English translator in his Silence outfit. There are also interviews with Enzo Castellari, Sergio Corbucci, Sergio Sollima, even Chuck Connors.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on April 23, 2006, 02:51:16 PM
On the Run Man Run DVD there's an extra documentary made in the 60's about the spaghetti western craze. There is an interview with Jean and he talks in French with an English translator in his Silence outfit. There are also interviews with Enzo Castellari, Sergio Corbucci, Sergio Sollima, even Chuck Connors.

yeah that doc is interesting, including the Corbucci interview. However the John and Wayne duo songs are pretty bad, except for maybe the song "dead or alive".


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Peacemaker on April 23, 2006, 05:04:37 PM
I thought dead or alive was catchy.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Leone Admirer on April 23, 2006, 05:33:28 PM
. On the Run Man Run DVD there's an extra documentary made in the 60's about the spaghetti western craze. There is an interview with Jean and he talks in French with an English translator in his Silence outfit. There are also interviews with Enzo Castellari, Sergio Corbucci, Sergio Sollima, even Chuck Connors.

When I went to the UK premiere of this film, they showed that excerpt of the doco before hand. It's nice to know the BFI buys R1 DVD's also  :)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on April 23, 2006, 07:05:39 PM
I thought dead or alive was catchy.


yeah I know, that was the only one that was a good listen.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Peacemaker on April 23, 2006, 10:15:27 PM

yeah I know, that was the only one that was a good listen.

Now I'm runnin, runnin, runnin!
Must keep a-gunnin'
There's no other way to survive!


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on April 23, 2006, 10:26:58 PM
Now I'm runnin, runnin, runnin!
Must keep a-gunnin'
There's no other way to survive!


dead or alive


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: indio on April 24, 2006, 01:40:05 AM
when i saw the alt. ending of this i cried with laughter. its brilliant the way it is, it did shock me the first time i saw it though.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Poggle on April 24, 2006, 07:24:30 PM
I like Corbucci a lot even though I think his style could've been a little more polished and well-rounded, but the shot of Silence's face being illuminated by the light after he gets shot is one of the most breathtaking visuals from a death scene I've ever seen, I truly think that it is one of the rare moments in cinema that another director comes to the height of Leone. The same feeling I get when I see that shot is the same feeling I get when I see things like the final flashback from OUATITW, the final shot of OUATIA and the last shot from Godfather II.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: bardo on June 01, 2006, 10:17:38 AM
what do you all think of this film ?.never seen it but i think i will buy it.good reviews on imdb


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Peacemaker on June 01, 2006, 10:25:02 AM
what do you all think of this film ?.never seen it but i think i will buy it.good reviews on imdb

Great film. Don't read the reviews on imdb!!! Trust me. I read the reviews there before I saw TGS and they gave away the ending.

If you're considering to buy the film I recommend it. You won't be disappointed. Surprised, yes but not disappointed.  ;)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Leone Admirer on June 02, 2006, 04:50:46 PM
Brilliant film, my fave non - Leone spaghetti. Here's the link to a thread that discusses the film quite a bit http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1757.0 + you can check out my review of it in the SW Virign thread in the Other Films section.  :)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on August 15, 2006, 05:34:33 PM
  I always thought the alternate happy ending was pretty ridiculous.  Just the way Frank Wolff reappears with no explanation as how he survived the fall through the ice makes me cringe.  And it just doesn't seem to fit with the tone of the movie.  Silence smiling with the sheriff and Vonetta McGee seems forced to me.




well I'm sure with audio Frank Wolff explains just how he survived his icy watered plunge. He does speak to Silence in the alternate ending.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Banjo on August 15, 2006, 05:39:30 PM
Wasn't this subject covered on an earlier thread? ;D

http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1757.0


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on August 15, 2006, 05:48:39 PM
yea it was, so the question is should we for the sake of not being repetitious ask our Moderator to try and move the subject to the proper thread.

Chris I don't know how much time you want to spend rooting out old subjects  ;D


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Banjo on August 15, 2006, 05:59:47 PM
Searching to see if theres a previous thread isn't all that straightforward as pages can quite often run into dozens-and lifes too short...


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on August 15, 2006, 06:08:34 PM
Quote
Searching to see if theres a previous thread isn't all that straightforward as pages can quite often run into dozens-and lifes too short...


I know, but there are a lot of good disscussions hashed over and decided upon and its a pain at times to go over it all again, such is the nature of newbies.  8)

They seen to pounce on similar subjects like vultures on the Clint board and tidy things up pronto, its almost fascistic over there, lol


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on August 15, 2006, 06:10:35 PM



They seen to pounce on similar subjects like vultures on the Clint board and tidy things up pronto, its almost fascistic over there, lol

yeah why is it so better marshalled over there?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Banjo on August 15, 2006, 06:16:38 PM


I know, but there are a lot of good disscussions hashed over and decided upon and its a pain at times to go over it all again, such is the nature of newbies.  8)
Well at least with the non-Leone sw's there only seems to be a handful of us that starts these threads and duplication doesn't happen very often. 


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on August 16, 2006, 04:56:25 AM
Quote
Well at least with the non-Leone sw's there only seems to be a handful of us that starts these threads and duplication doesn't happen very often. 


That's true.

But with the Leone related threads those of us that have been here a long time have long memories  ;)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Banjo on August 31, 2006, 04:06:52 AM
Hey anybody in the UK who hasn't got the dvd but receives the free-to-air Film4 channel on Sky Digital,Freeview this Sergio Corbucci(arguably his best) sw classic is showing on Sunday  night 3rd September 12.45-3.00 am and hopefully like the other films on this channel will be repeated a handful of times over the next month.To the uninitiated-make sure you tape it! ;)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Sucker on August 31, 2006, 05:33:15 AM
Agree Banjo - great SW. Great Morricone score too.
Pity about Film4. It used to be the No.1 movie channel in these parts. For 9 Euro a month it was superb value.   Now it's gone all popcorn with ads.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Banjo on August 31, 2006, 07:41:59 AM
Yes but before you had to pay £8 to not have the adverts.I've got a dvd recorder(with hard disc drive) and can edit these out without any trace ;)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Leone Admirer on August 31, 2006, 03:48:19 PM
Good news, will alert friends to this.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on December 01, 2006, 12:12:24 AM
  I always thought the alternate happy ending was pretty ridiculous. 


Well Corbucci was pretty much forced to make the alternate happy ending for South African markets (among others) and as such he didn't put much thought or care into it. Understandable.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Tim on December 01, 2006, 08:10:56 AM
Quote
Well Corbucci was pretty much forced to make the alternate happy ending for South African markets (among others) and as such he didn't put much thought or care into it. Understandable.

  Yeah, I knew that, firecracker, I was just stating my thoughts on the alternate ending.  So I guess Corbucci succeeded in making a really stupid ending.  I still don't understand how Silence is able to talk.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on December 01, 2006, 01:14:21 PM
  Yeah, I knew that, firecracker, I was just stating my thoughts on the alternate ending.  So I guess Corbucci succeeded in making a really stupid ending.  I still don't understand how Silence is able to talk.

It would be nice to have an audio of it but I doubt it ever existed.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: mike siegel on December 01, 2006, 01:59:42 PM
Amigos,
this ending was never supposed to be used by Corbucci. His whole goal was to make a film condemning
violence in dedicating it to Guevara, King, Kennedy...
For him Silenzio was a Christ-like character and hence
he HAD to die. I do have On-Camera interviews with him explainig this for the record.
I suppose the money-men asked him to shoot an alternative ending. But Ol' Serge was no foul and knew about the old masters like Wyler or Ford who did that kind of stuff too: shoot it in such a miserable way, that nobody (with a bit sense left) could ever use it.
That's why Silenzio is talking. And with a bit of sense for drama and knowledge of film making, it's easy to see that that stuff is just not even close to the stuff otherwise shot by Corbucci for that film. It's merely a joke. Made for the age of DVD's 30 years before it started.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Tim on December 01, 2006, 11:12:00 PM
Quote
For him Silenzio was a Christ-like character and hence
he HAD to die.

  Agreed.  Right from the start, you could tell Silence was doomed.  But I never thought he'd meet his demise that way.  Just about any other western would have Loco killed too to go with Silence.  God, what a great ending!


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Aguirre on December 01, 2006, 11:20:09 PM
That ending is amazingly funny, one of the best laughs I had. I laughed even harder when they showed the hand armor. Doesn't Silence talk as well?

Shows how good a sense of humor Corbucci has.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Peacemaker on December 02, 2006, 01:33:06 PM
The alternate ending was so pathetic and completely contradicted the mood of the film.

The shot of Frank Wolff coming out of nowhere made me laugh very hard.  ;D


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Aguirre on December 02, 2006, 05:19:44 PM
I love how Silence gains his strength back, jumps through the window and kills all the baddies.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Tim on December 03, 2006, 11:30:44 AM
Quote
I love how Silence gains his strength back, jumps through the window and kills all the baddies.

  Didn't you realize he was just pretending the whole time, Aguirre?  Getting your hands scorched in an open fire doesn't really hurt, Silence was just playing a huge practical joke on the viewers.  Clever, Silence, very clever.   ;D


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Peacemaker on December 03, 2006, 12:43:12 PM
  Getting your hands scorched in an open fire doesn't really hurt,

Neither does getting your thumbs shot off.


Silence is invincible!  ::)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: pixelated on December 03, 2006, 12:45:17 PM
Amigos,
this ending was never supposed to be used by Corbucci. His whole goal was to make a film condemning
violence in dedicating it to Guevara, King, Kennedy...
For him Silenzio was a Christ-like character and hence
he HAD to die. I do have On-Camera interviews with him explainig this for the record.
I suppose the money-men asked him to shoot an alternative ending. But Ol' Serge was no foul and knew about the old masters like Wyler or Ford who did that kind of stuff too: shoot it in such a miserable way, that nobody (with a bit sense left) could ever use it.
That's why Silenzio is talking. And with a bit of sense for drama and knowledge of film making, it's easy to see that that stuff is just not even close to the stuff otherwise shot by Corbucci for that film. It's merely a joke. Made for the age of DVD's 30 years before it started.

where can one find these interviews?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: mike siegel on December 03, 2006, 12:56:06 PM
In my archive...

It's Italian - partly with German VO.
I also have lots of contemporary mags with
interviews...



Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Cusser on January 15, 2007, 10:36:56 AM
The Great Silence is scheduled for this afternoon (Monday) on IFC cable (US), the first time I've ever seen it scheduled on TV.  It most likely will NOT be widescreen which I believe my DVD copy is, but it won't have commercials and should be uncut (timeframe is 110 minutes).


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Peacemaker on January 15, 2007, 10:39:27 AM
The Great Silence is scheduled for this afternoon (Monday) on IFC cable (US), the first time I've ever seen it scheduled on TV.  It most likely will NOT be widescreen which I believe my DVD copy is, but it won't have commercials and should be uncut (timeframe is 110 minutes).

It doesn't really need widescreen. It's almost the exact ratio of your television set.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 07, 2007, 05:47:51 PM
Is it safe to say that the character of Silence was the bad guy? What's your take on this? We are led to believe that Loco is the bad guy throughout the whole film, but is he really doing anything bad? He kills outlaws and collects their bounties. The character of Silence goes around and kills bounty hunters, so does this make him the bad guy? That's why this movie is brilliant, there is so much to debate.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on February 07, 2007, 07:37:09 PM
Quote
Is it safe to say that the character of Silence was the bad guy?

well, Loco is a bounty hunter & Silence is actually more of a hired gun, but Loco works for a corupt JP Polycutt, so its a pretty murky scenario all the way around.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 07, 2007, 07:41:53 PM
Yeah, I was rooting for Silence though at the end, but having him killed like that was utterly shocking and bloody brilliant. I don't think anybody expected that the first time they watched it. I know I didn't.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Leone Admirer on February 07, 2007, 08:32:25 PM
Silence is a true anti-hero. He has many similarites with Loco both in the jobs they do and the way they do it. I guess the only thing that helps discern the hero part is his troubled past and his romantic liason.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 08, 2007, 12:28:46 PM
Yeah, but is Silence a bad person, that's the question?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Leone Admirer on February 08, 2007, 01:37:57 PM
Do you think Joe, Manco or Blondie are bad in the Dollar trilogy?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on February 08, 2007, 03:21:48 PM
Perhaps you should have named this thread something else to avoid confusion.


you could have continued the discussion of this movie on the other (and much older) thread of the same name.

same goes for your "bullet for a general" thread.

It's alright though, just don't make a habit of it.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Poggle on February 08, 2007, 03:44:17 PM
Or Jon1 will go after you for days.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on February 08, 2007, 03:48:02 PM
Or Jon1 will go after you for days.


and if your me, he'll go after you for months.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 08, 2007, 04:31:14 PM
Perhaps you should have named this thread something else to avoid confusion.


you could have continued the discussion of this movie on the other (and much older) thread of the same name.

same goes for your "bullet for a general" thread.

It's alright though, just don't make a habit of it.

Oh give me a frickin break Firecracker. I'm just talking about the movie The Great Silence. I did nothing wrong starting this thread. Get over it. You don't want to get in on the discussion, than shut up. Not trying to be mean, but that's how it is. You got it? >:(


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Arizona Colt on February 08, 2007, 05:07:12 PM
Oh give me a frickin break Firecracker. I'm just talking about the movie The Great Silence. I did nothing wrong starting this thread. Get over it. You don't want to get in on the discussion, than shut up. Not trying to be mean, but that's how it is. You got it? >:(

I don't think FC meant any harm just that instead of having a half dozen or more threads related to the same thing it would make more sense to contain all related topics of said discussion in as few threads as possible. I try to do this myself. It isn't a big deal otherwise. An instance of miscommunication.

But, for your initial questions, for me, Loco was the villain plain and simple. His tactics are evidence enough of that. He kills many innocent people using lies to lure them into the open, he murders the towns sheriff and conspires with Polycutt who has his own dirty, murderous past. He also twists the "rules" of the time to his own advantage. The violent bloodthirsty massacre of the homeless people at the finale is further proof. Does he simply escort these supposed "criminals" to the authorities? No, he derives pleasure from using the "law" to his own murderous ends.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 08, 2007, 06:40:24 PM
I don't think FC meant any harm just that instead of having a half dozen or more threads related to the same thing it would make more sense to contain all related topics of said discussion in as few threads as possible. I try to do this myself. It isn't a big deal otherwise. An instance of miscommunication.

But, for your initial questions, for me, Loco was the villain plain and simple. His tactics are evidence enough of that. He kills many innocent people using lies to lure them into the open, he murders the towns sheriff and conspires with Polycutt who has his own dirty, murderous past. He also twists the "rules" of the time to his own advantage. The violent bloodthirsty massacre of the homeless people at the finale is further proof. Does he simply escort these supposed "criminals" to the authorities? No, he derives pleasure from using the "law" to his own murderous ends.

Well put Arizona Colt.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on February 09, 2007, 09:06:41 AM
Oh give me a frickin break Firecracker. I'm just talking about the movie The Great Silence. I did nothing wrong starting this thread. Get over it. You don't want to get in on the discussion, than shut up. Not trying to be mean, but that's how it is. You got it? >:(


Don't get your panties in a bunch madame.


My post was for the concern of the board, not to harass you.

I thought that was made clear with this sentence...

"It's alright though, just don't make a habit out of it"
(perhaps you thought it was sarcastic but it wasn't)


I'm just tired of seeing the same discussions being brought up on newly created threads (I have made the same mistake myself but I learned from it). Keep it all in one if possible.


As for your anger managment problem...keep it at IMDB.




P.S. Silence is most obviously the anti-hero. He plays the same role Harmonica and Mortimer do in their movies (Mysterious gunslinger with a troubled past).
 


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on February 09, 2007, 09:23:50 AM
I'm just talking about the movie The Great Silence.


Oh really? And what did you think I was talking about son?


Ear Muffs?


We have over 5 threads about the film all with the same thread title.




Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: dave jenkins on February 09, 2007, 09:45:59 AM
Oh give me a frickin break Firecracker. I'm just talking about the movie The Great Silence. I did nothing wrong starting this thread. Get over it. You don't want to get in on the discussion, than shut up. Not trying to be mean, but that's how it is. You got it? >:(
The point is, since there are already threads dedicated to this topic, starting another is needlessly confusing for those who come after us. Newcomers aren't always aware of what went on before on this board; even those of us who have been here awhile have a hard time chasing down dimly remembered posts to check comments or reacquaint ourselves with a subject. So we aren't talking about what is right or wrong to do, but what is most helpful to this community. It is easier for readers to use the board if we keep posts consolidated on each topic. That's just a fact. But if one feels the need to start a new thread in spite of the fact one or more already exist on a subject, courtesy dictates that you should at least link to the old threads in the new one. It comes down to a simple a question: are you posting only for yourself, or for others as well?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 09, 2007, 09:55:42 AM
>>>>>>As for your anger managment problem...keep it at IMDB.<<<<<<<

Firecracker, there is no anger managment problem here. I didn't get upset, I was just saying if you had a problem with my post, than don't comment, that's all. I'm not like a troll on IMDB, never was if you would go back and go through my history. I'm just having a convo with you, nothing more. I understand what you're saying, sorry if I made another topic on the movie. I just hate it when people act like they're the boss on a board and like to give orders. I don't think you're like that but it sounded like it.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Kurug3n on March 04, 2007, 11:35:20 AM
Found the alternate ending for whoever wants to watch it..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRwLDQTgZ1k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRwLDQTgZ1k)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Arizona Colt on March 04, 2007, 02:35:38 PM
This ending is on the Fantoma dvd as a special feature.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on March 05, 2007, 09:33:34 AM
Found the alternate ending for whoever wants to watch it..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRwLDQTgZ1k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRwLDQTgZ1k)


for a second I thought you had found the scene with audio (the alternate ending was never dubbed) but then I realized it was just sound effects that were being used from other films.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Leone Admirer on March 05, 2007, 10:47:37 AM
When I saw this at the LFF they had it at the end of the Credits with the main theme playing over it. It was wonderful. It's a shame the music isn't on the Fantoma version as it's good to listen to the Cox commentary on these Alternate Ending atleast once but the other version has no music behind it at all.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: mike siegel on March 06, 2007, 01:15:08 PM
One of my Top 5 Italo-Westerns.
Too bad Eastwood withold the film at its initial release from the US/UK,
so no nice English promo-material does exist..

The alternate ending was never meant to be used (by Corbucci),
that's why he shot it so out of style. Funny anyway (Silenzio talks :))


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on March 06, 2007, 05:03:05 PM
Quote
Too bad Eastwood withold the film at its initial release from the US/UK,
so no nice English promo-material does exist..

Never heard about that before whats to scoop on that story?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: mike siegel on March 07, 2007, 05:43:39 AM
While preparring WHERE EAGLES DARE Eastwood saw the film in Europe. He was so impressed that he bought the English/US-Rights. But unfortunately not to distribute the film but to remake it. The result was JOE KIDD. Yes, no KIDDING :). You still see Silenzio's MAUSER C96 gun. Even their hats look alike. Duvall is the Bounty hunter leader (Kinskis part), Saxon represents the 'outlaws' in the mountains...

I think it's a perfect example of what the Italians were capable of doing in the 60's. SILENZIO became an inspired classic while JOE KIDD is another example of the mediocre (not: bad) US-westerns of the 70's. The secret was to do something really special and not fool around with good ideas (although a silent Eastwood would never have worked. So that 'Special' was totally lost. AND they withhold the film from so many people for ages. Back in the 80's I constantly bugged people in the UK and the US because they never heard of the film and talked big of really 2nd rate Spaghettis which had a bigger release in the US and therefore were known (but not really representative for the good ones).

Or maybe it's just that different taste. Over here nobody would question the fact that IL MERCENARIO is superior (by far)
to COMPANEROS, while the later film even appears on Top-lists in the US. Also the fact that outside of GERMANY/FRANCE/SPAIN & ITALY nobody seems to get the quality of the COLIZZI Westerns tells me that 'style' isn't half as important in the US than story or action. Not for me. I can only quote Robert Ryan (on WILD BUNCH/Peckinpah:
'All westerns have been made. numerous times. The only difference now is style. And Peckinpah's style is extraordinary..'


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on March 07, 2007, 10:47:52 AM
Thanks for that information Mike, tell us more about COLIZZI's Westerns which one's to look for, its hard to get a good handle on these films since everyone's tastes seem to range so widely that its hard to judge.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: mike siegel on March 07, 2007, 11:30:19 AM
Well my taste what kind of films to watch shifts all the time. Depends on the mood.
Sometimes I long for Ingmar Bergman, sometimes for good old 50's Sci-Fi. But an overall
quality on can pin down, at least I believe that. So for ex. I never liked Anthony Steffen westerns,
to me he is not even (believable) cool after 5 beers. Or let's say about 80% of those couple of
hundred Italian Western :). Gee, they produced a lot of crap. Bad directing, bad photography,
bad acting, stories so bad one can hardly watch them.
Yet I think about 30-50 of those films belong to the best work produced in those two decades.
And a couple even are among the best films ever.

The three COLIZZI-westerns have their own treads here I thought?
(GOD FORGIVEs, I DON'T / ACE HIGH / BOOT HILL)

GOD is a first-director effort, a bid rough, yet better than most westerns by 'experienced'
film makers. Nice strange score.
ACE HIGH is long but entertaining. Well directed And photographed. Unusual score and
attractive ideas. Great wardrobe too, as in all his films.
BOOT HILL is cool. The first 20 minutes the lead (Hill) seems to speak not one word.
Great soundtrack (weird again of course) and again a great look in general. And I love the
whole atmosphere and themes (not your usual 'Gringo kisses girl and clears the saloon').
Circus, Roulette, fountains, fishing, Jazz... unusual stuff. AND with those films he also teamed up
HILL & SPENCER, the biggest European Starduo in the 70's & 80's (although everybody
tends to think of Barboni's TRINITA only by now..). By the mid-70's the two decided to make
films more and more for children only - they both hated violence in films. So (if) you love them,
you get everything in the Colizzis: Fun, adventure, humor & violence. And well-done too :).

I just watched Valerii's films again and I think the two Gemma-Films are dated, slow and
almost boring. Colizzi was a better student of Leone.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on March 07, 2007, 04:19:29 PM
Thanks again Mike.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: tucumcari bound on March 07, 2007, 05:01:54 PM
This film is outstanding. I love it more and more every time I watch it. It's definitley one of the best westerns ever made.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Kurug3n on March 07, 2007, 06:53:21 PM

for a second I thought you had found the scene with audio (the alternate ending was never dubbed) but then I realized it was just sound effects that were being used from other films.

Imagine what Frank Wolffs character would be sayin..."Ice never stops Justice!"  ;D


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: tucumcari bound on March 07, 2007, 07:12:14 PM
Imagine what Frank Wolffs character would be sayin..."Ice never stops Justice!"  ;D

Poor Frank Wolff. Seems like every character he plays never survives the whole movie.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: mike siegel on March 08, 2007, 03:55:39 AM
And he didn't survive the genre too (he commited suicide in 1971. Depressions and an ended love affair).
He did shine with Corbucci (SILENZIO), Leone (OUTITW) and Colizzi (GOD FORGIVES).


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: tucumcari bound on March 08, 2007, 08:59:48 AM
And he didn't survive the genre too (he commited suicide in 1971. Depressions and an ended love affair).
He did shine with Corbucci (SILENZIO), Leone (OUTITW) and Colizzi (GOD FORGIVES).

Yeah I knew he commited suicide. It's such a shame. I have yet to see SILENZIO and GOD FORGIVES. Do you recommend them mike siegel?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Tim on March 08, 2007, 03:28:43 PM
Quote
I have yet to see SILENZIO

  WWWWWWWhat?!  Buy it now, Tucumcari.  It's a safe blind buy for sure. :)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: tucumcari bound on March 08, 2007, 05:59:07 PM
  WWWWWWWhat?!  Buy it now, Tucumcari.  It's a safe blind buy for sure. :)

HAHAHAHA I will Tim. You were right about Major Dundee, so I trust your judgment my friend! O0


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: tucumcari bound on March 08, 2007, 06:02:41 PM
lol, actually Tim, nevermind, Silenzio is "The Great Silence". Wow, I was just thinking of something else. Of course I've seen The Great Silence. Classic movie!


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: mike siegel on March 08, 2007, 06:28:43 PM
sorry... I tend to use the Italian titles. otherwise one gets so mixed up with the often completely different German titles and the US or UK titles...

SILENZIO is the only Italian western that brought tears in my eyes when I first saw it (and the DEAD SONS scene in GIU LA TESTA).

As for recommendations: I never do that. Had soo many strange experiences, after all it's an art form - taste and so on...
Years ago I tended to give 'new' friends my favorite 10 or 20 films and was so devasted when they said that they switched off THE WILD BUNCH or MIDNIGHT COWBOY, or thought that M*A*S*H wasn't THAT funny...
I guess I take films (or the art form) much too seriousely. If it isn't for Al Adamson or Jess Franco :)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: tucumcari bound on March 08, 2007, 06:56:56 PM
I know we all look at movies differently, but how can anybody not LOVE The Wild Bunch!!! I mean it pisses me off that someone who's a huge fan of movies, westerns in preticular, would rip that great film. I can see somebody not liking Midnight Cowboy, which I think is fantastic, but The Wild Bunch! Nope, you're lost your mind in my book if you rip it. lol


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Arizona Colt on March 09, 2007, 07:31:47 PM
The info inside the Fantoma keepcase confirms from Alex Cox that a remake was planned apparently why the film never got a US release although it is doubtful that a film that bombed in its native land would get a wide release in America anyways, particularly with a seriously downer ending. The bit in the alternate ending where Silence "talks", may have just been him moving his lips for the others to read, or an attempt to speak.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on March 10, 2007, 12:35:13 AM
. The bit in the alternate ending where Silence "talks", may have just been him moving his lips for the others to read, or an attempt to speak.


Are you sure that is on the alternate ending and not the trailer?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Arizona Colt on March 10, 2007, 12:37:01 AM
Yes I believe it is the trailer now that you mention it. Haven't watched it in a while.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: mike siegel on March 10, 2007, 02:29:39 PM
sorry to disappoint you, but it's not in the trailer.
the guys who financed SILENZIO were worried that Corbucci might get carried away with his vision of condemming violence and that the film wouldn't work at all with such a tragic ending. Corbucci offered to shot an ending in which SILENZIO survives. But as a student of Ford he was no dummy and shot it in such a way it wasn't usuable at all. I mean come on, watch it, if someone watches it with any understanding of FILM, he'll notice it right away: it is a different mood, completely.. like a bad cliffhanger thing: suddenly the dead sheriff pops up, all the baddies get killed, Silenzio fooled everybody with his muteness and they all smile like saying: 'sergio, sergio, are you satiesfied with our prentended bad acting ?'  Imagine Cheyenne waking up again and saying:' let's check out wether Frank is just hurt'... they go back and find him nursed by Jill who says: 'he knows he was wrong, he'll help building up Sweetwater. Maybe he'll get to be a mayor..' (just like in real life, ha guys?).
SILENZIO was a very serious attempt on everybody's side, so Corbucci made sure that alternate ending was unusuable. Looks like he shot it in 2 hours ...

In the end it's a rare and funny opportunity to see a director fighting for his vision (and the film was no 'bomb' in Europe. And I'm also not sure that the film wouldn't have received some recognition in the US/UK. After all it was the start of New Hollywood where happy endings were dreaded. Clyde Barrow, Pike Bishop, Captain America & Billy, seems that every protagonist in that first wave of NH died..)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Tim on March 10, 2007, 02:46:37 PM
  I'm gonna disagree with you, mike.  My dvd clearly has the scene of Silence talking at the end of the trailer, could be the last shot if I remember right.  I posted about this about a year ago.

  http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=3269.0 (http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=3269.0)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Arizona Colt on March 10, 2007, 02:53:58 PM
sorry to disappoint you, but it's not in the trailer.
the guys who financed SILENZIO were worried that Corbucci might get carried away with his vision of condemming violence and that the film wouldn't work at all with such a tragic ending. Corbucci offered to shot an ending in which SILENZIO survives. But as a student of Ford he was no dummy and shot it in such a way it wasn't usuable at all. I mean come on, watch it, if someone watches it with any understanding of FILM, he'll notice it right away: it is a different mood, completely.. like a bad cliffhanger thing: suddenly the dead sheriff pops up, all the baddies get killed, Silenzio fooled everybody with his muteness and they all smile like saying: 'sergio, sergio, are you satiesfied with our prentended bad acting ?'  Imagine Cheyenne waking up again and saying:' let's check out wether Frank is just hurt'... they go back and find him nursed by Jill who says: 'he knows he was wrong, he'll help building up Sweetwater. Maybe he'll get to be a mayor..' (just like in real life, ha guys?).
SILENZIO was a very serious attempt on everybody's side, so Corbucci made sure that alternate ending was unusuable. Looks like he shot it in 2 hours ...

In the end it's a rare and funny opportunity to see a director fighting for his vision (and the film was no 'bomb' in Europe. And I'm also not sure that the film wouldn't have received some recognition in the US/UK. After all it was the start of New Hollywood where happy endings were dreaded. Clyde Barrow, Pike Bishop, Captain America & Billy, seems that every protagonist in that first wave of NH died..)

According to Alex Cox the "happy" ending was only for Asian and African territories and your explaination of the films US remake/distribution pick up by Mr. Eastwood is not mentioned there nor is this mentioned in the fine book ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE ITALIAN WEST where the author does hint that possibly Eastwood had seen the film as certain elements turn up in HANG'EM HIGH (revealing his neck scar) and JOE KIDD (the gun) but the JK and GS connection stops there. I'm sure if Eastwood had bought the rights to the film, it would have been mentioned by one of these authors who have obviously labored much time and effort into the Italian Western genre.

And since when do movies have to explain anything? Just because Frank Wolff is seen falling through the ice, then shows up at the end of the unused ending doesn't mean that said footage is unusable (Or a BAD CLIFFHANGER THING). Yes the footage appears rushed but that ending, as said elsewhere was never meant for the original film. And according to Hough, the film was not a success in Europe and it is common practice  for a foreign films US theatrical future laying in its profitability in its homeland. Why would a major studio invest in a film that its country of origin did not care for?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Arizona Colt on March 10, 2007, 02:56:32 PM
Sorry to disappoint you BAD CLIFFHANGER GUY but I'm looking at the trailer now on the Fantoma DVD and there is Jean Loius Trintignant moving his lips in the trailer. Maybe this is more Corbucci propaganda footage shot for another market?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: mike siegel on March 10, 2007, 04:10:13 PM
I just watched the alternate ending again and one thing I mixed up: he's not talking after all (and I don't know which trailer has that bid, I know only the German one, there's no SILENCE talking..). I mixed that up with the WESTERN ITALIAN STYLE doc where Trinignant was interviewed. Stayed in my mind vividly it seems (love that doc).

As for Eastwood, I'm not the only one who knows that. I thought some input here would be welcome, but it seems I better back off before it becomes hostile. But as a film maker and film historian I try not to talk about things unless I researched on my own. In this business it's almost impossible to be sure about ANYTHING, yet I know people who worked for Corbucci and I also have (italian) Interview with him. I never said the ending wasn't shot for Japan, Texas or what have you. I said it was shot because the producers wanted to use it (Japan? Texas?). But Corbucci shot it in such a way that it didn't work. Everybody who knows anything about SILENZIO & CORBUCCI knows that he did the film because Silenzio dies at the end (like Christ, King, Guevara & Kennedy). That's why he wanted to make the film.

I even found an Eastwood biography mentioning the other episode:

(http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1612/7186524/13731420/236788816.jpg)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Leone Admirer on March 11, 2007, 08:15:47 PM
Sorry to disappoint you BAD CLIFFHANGER GUY but I'm looking at the trailer now on the Fantoma DVD and there is Jean Loius Trintignant moving his lips in the trailer. Maybe this is more Corbucci propaganda footage shot for another market?

Might be JLT talking between takes and for some reason they used the shot to fill up the trailer. Must add that for me, the sheer depressing ending, which was a shock to me when I first saw this in the movie theater is what really makes this movie great. Gonna spoil it here so those who haven't seen it don't read on, but the use of slow motion as Silence slumps forward after being shot and the great music cue, a bit of cinematic perfection there.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Arizona Colt on March 12, 2007, 01:13:06 PM
I just watched the alternate ending again and one thing I mixed up: he's not talking after all (and I don't know which trailer has that bid, I know only the German one, there's no SILENCE talking..). I mixed that up with the WESTERN ITALIAN STYLE doc where Trinignant was interviewed. Stayed in my mind vividly it seems (love that doc).

As for Eastwood, I'm not the only one who knows that. I thought some input here would be welcome, but it seems I better back off before it becomes hostile. But as a film maker and film historian I try not to talk about things unless I researched on my own. In this business it's almost impossible to be sure about ANYTHING, yet I know people who worked for Corbucci and I also have (italian) Interview with him. I never said the ending wasn't shot for Japan, Texas or what have you. I said it was shot because the producers wanted to use it (Japan? Texas?). But Corbucci shot it in such a way that it didn't work. Everybody who knows anything about SILENZIO & CORBUCCI knows that he did the film because Silenzio dies at the end (like Christ, King, Guevara & Kennedy). That's why he wanted to make the film.

I even found an Eastwood biography mentioning the other episode:

(http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1612/7186524/13731420/236788816.jpg)


What is this book and what was the year of its publication? I'm not completely doubting that this did not happen but I've not seen it mentioned by another author who know's the genre inside and out. I can list half a dozen reference books I have on various subjects that have erroneous information in them. If Eastwood were so enchanted with this film, than why buy the rights and not release it theatrically (discounting the fact this film was no blockbuster in its native land) since these films were so popular around this time?

Exactly what elements were used to make "an exciting Eastwood" vehicle? JOE KIDD? Apart from the gun, the comparisons end there. As many times as I've seen that movie (it's on at least once a week it seems) Corbucci's GREAT SILENCE has never come to mind.

AGAIN......the general consensus is that the alternate ending was shot because the Italian producers were mortified by the relentlessly bleak film as apparently the theater patrons were. Killing the hero was simply not done (or widely done) except in HK where Chang Cheh made a career out of it in 67 with his famous THE ASSASSIN.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Arizona Colt on March 12, 2007, 01:47:19 PM
And BTW, no hostilities were intended but your somewhat condescending comments such as these classics--

"Sorry to disappoint you",

and this little ditty--

"if anyone watching has an understanding of film",

can be perceived as a tad inflammatory.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: mike siegel on March 12, 2007, 02:31:55 PM
I'm sorry regarding the 'somewhat condescending comments', some of us bloody Germans do have problems in being more diplomatic instead of being so straight. I know it's nor very popular in many countries as for us here it's mostly the other way around..

As for the rest, I could only repeat myself. Eastwood didn't distribute because he didn't aquire the rights to distribute (after all he's not a distributor), but to remake the thing. Not an uncommon practice in the business, buy the thing so nobody will see it while we make it all over again... JOE KIDD has elements, again, it was mentioned before by me.. Sure it's a different film. But Tarantino's remakes look different too, don't they.

As for 'dying heroes' I disagree. I'm sure we could list dozens and dozens here. Film Noir, WAGES OF FEAR, SANDS OF IWO JIMA, GODARD's Films, BONNIE & CLYDE, HELL IS FOR HEROES, EASY RIDER, NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD..

To close this issue: I never questioned the facts why this footage was shot, I just said that Corbucci was a Ford-fan and used the old trick of shooting it in such a way it was unusuable and vision was therefore protected. Silenzio's Death was essential for Corbucci making the film. And I find that it is very obvious in terms of that footage being bad and inappropriate for the mood of the (whole) rest of the film. Even the producers got that...

attached the nice German set (First release, 18 Cards, includes images from the unused footage)

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1612/7186524/13731420/236788827.jpg (ftp://http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1612/7186524/13731420/236788827.jpg)
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1612/7186524/13731420/236788821.jpg (ftp://http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1612/7186524/13731420/236788821.jpg)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Arizona Colt on March 12, 2007, 03:02:36 PM
I never doubted that the alternate ending was purposely shot as to be unusuable merely that the "happy" ending was shot at the behest of the producers for other markets. Corbucci having as much pull as I'm sure he had at this time, had final say over the version of his film that would see release. The other ending being more for markets where such a thing would be intolerable and also I suppose to cover themselves should the film not perform (which it did not) as hoped.

Your list of dying heroes contains a few that are not in fact heroes at all. NOTLD is a horror film and should not be included as the very nature of "horror" is to be horrible and arouse certain feelings in the spectator. I can list dozens of horror films where the protagonists are killed off in shock endings. when I use the term "hero", I'm using it to refer to an individual who is a staunch believer in truth, honesty, honor towards country and fight till the last where 'dying' is not an option. I simply used Cheh as an example as he perfected this heroic symbolism to the extreme during his 1966-1976 output even utilizing filmic techniques before certain well known American filmmakers.

Also, Tarantino has yet to make an 'official' remake of anything; at least a film acknowledged as such by Mr. T himself.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on March 12, 2007, 03:19:01 PM


 JOE KIDD has elements


Where?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on March 12, 2007, 03:55:35 PM
Quote
Where?

Not many, just the gun, the costume of scarf over the head with the hat on top of that, and the basic premise of the Outlaws up in the hills and the bounty hunters after them.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on March 12, 2007, 03:57:54 PM
Not many, just the gun, the costume of scarf over the head with the hat on top of that, and the basic premise of the Outlaws up in the hills and the bounty hunters after them.


I've seen the film (always seem to fall asleep before the much talked about "trian through a saloon" climax) but I hardly think the gun counts as an element lifted from TGS.



Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Arizona Colt on March 13, 2007, 11:51:57 AM
I was hoping to find out where that book excerpt was from possibly Weisser's erronious tome. I'm curious as to when Eastwood did see this as he should have been in pre-production on HANG'EM HIGH around this time. Plus he had his Malpaso Productions Co. Should he have wanted to do a remake, could he have not financed it through his own production company? Since he was so big at this time I'm sure he could have cojoled a major to at least finance a portion of THE GREAT GAMBLE.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: mike siegel on March 13, 2007, 01:40:16 PM
most of it I mentioned. But again: He saw it while being busy with WHERE EAGLES DARE in Europe. That one was shot in winter/spring of 68 in Austria. As well as SILENZIO in the Italian mountains some 100 miles away. I was only 8 months back then, don't know what he did on Sundays back then... Maybe he visited old grounds, Cinecitta in Rome, around that time and saw an early screening. A journalist told me 20 years ago Eastwood saw it in London while doing post on WHERE EAGLES and the Italians brought new IW's to town hoping to find distributors/buyers for the UK/US market.

Anyway, HANG'EM HIGH was shot BEFORE Il Grande Silenzio even went before the cameras, so there can't be any influence there.
Next in line was COOGAN for Eastwood. He worked like hell (as always), made KELLY, SISTER SARA, THE BEGUILED, his own directing debuts with the Beguild-Don Siegel documentary HEY, HAS ANYBODY THAT THING?? I'M LOOKING FOR IT FOR LOONG TIME - !! REWARDS!! and PLAY MISTY. Then HARRY and JOE KIDD. And as all his films from 1970 on iJOE KIDD WAS co-produced by his MALPASO Company... But let's not get into any creative discussions why he or other people decided to make the film as it stands now. And of course the MAUSER is one of those elements they took from SILENZIO..

I know people who know him, a couple of more entries and I'm motivated enough to go through the trouble of finding out the whole story... Oh, the book is called CLINT EASTWOOD-HOLLYWOODS LONER by a british film historian, don't know his name right now and the books are in another building... But as I said before, that story isn't unknown at all. My best buddy worked for Corbucci in his later years and although he never saw JOE KIDD he knew that story too.

I hope you guys don't think too bad of me because of tone in some of my postings. It's just a bit unusual to me to find so much resentment in this discussion here. The first time I saw JOE KIDD I thought 'he looks like a speaking SILENZIO...'. Not that I immediately thought of the facts I know by now, but when I learned about it, everything became crystal clear...


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Jill on May 03, 2007, 01:53:54 PM
I've seen it a few weeks ago. It's a masterpiece, for me, one of the best westerns, not only in the spaghetti sub-genre.

I love tragic-ending films  :'( Like the early Jean Gabin movies and Giu la testa. But this is much, much more tragic, and so COLD...

Poor Silenzio... poor Frank Wolff... poor Pauline...  :'(

But Tigrero is sooo great villain. Who said Frank's wrong? He's an angel...  ;D

Alternate ending? No, thanks.


What's the reason, that so many spaghetti western actors committed suicide?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on May 03, 2007, 02:06:52 PM



What's the reason, that so many spaghetti western actors committed suicide?

Just coincidence. Their career's had no barring on their suicides. It was mostly over a woman.

Just a quick friendly note: We have over 7 threads (and quite possibly more) dedicated to this film and perhaps it would be wise in the future to use our search engine more often.

Newbies make mistake. It's alright.


EDIT: Whoops! I made an error. I thought you had made yet another thread on this same subject. Sorry buddy :-[


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Leone Admirer on May 03, 2007, 02:12:42 PM
It's also been pointed to the Stranger in the strange city. Certain places can be excedingly intimidating if you don't know the customs or the language (Ask James Cameron)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Banjo on May 04, 2007, 09:23:11 AM
Just a quick friendly note: We have over 7 threads (and quite possibly more) dedicated to this film and perhaps it would be wise in the future to use our search engine more often.
There's only one now and we're on it! ;D


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Banjo on May 25, 2007, 04:54:20 AM
Leone Admirer's review from his SW Virgins Guide:-

The Great Silence: Reflections

I'm just going to keep this review short and sweet as I have already given my views on this wonderful film. I have recently just finished watching the film for the first time on DVD, and for me, its just as wonderful on the small screen as it was on the big screen. The music was just as excellent as I remembered it to be, the acting was fabulous with Klaus Kinski and Trintignant being wonderful in their roles and moraly opposites,and yet still the same in their roles.
     The direction and cinematography, whilst being a little bit sloppy, suit the film perfectly and snow always lends itself to be one of the best cinematic weathers we have.  The film is definatly worth being re-explored by fans of the genre and newcomers should definatly check out this wonderful film.
     The R1 DVD I watched the film on this time round was by Fantoma. They present the film uncut, in non-anamorphic 1.66:1 and in its original English Mono taken from the original negative. The presentation seemed very similar to the one I saw at the UK cinematic premiere. Picture does contain some damage and the audio does hiss and have limitations but it doesn't detract from the overall enjoyment.
      Included on the disc as extras is an introduction by Alex Cox. The disc says do not watch before the movie and I agree as Mr Cox dispenses the spoilers out thick and fast.  Also included is the alternate ending which should be seen to be believed and this can be watched silent or with commentary by Mr Cox. Finally there are liner notes included on the DVD by Alex Cox.
     For people who wish to own a version of this great film (and what has become my favourite non-leone spaghetti) then this seems to be the best version.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Banjo on May 26, 2007, 12:55:27 PM
Arizona Colts review:-

GREAT SILENCE, THE- 1968-Sergio Corbucci’s best, IMO about a mysterious gunfighter named Silence who is after a gang of ruthless bounty hunters using the law as a means to masquerade their murder sprees. One of the most downbeat and depressing cinematic experiences you’re ever likely to see. Even knowing how the film ends still does not prepare you for its power to shock you into a numbing state of doubt at what you have seen. Frank Wolff plays the law abiding sheriff and the only character outside of Silence who could be a foil for the bad guys. Klaus Kinski in his greatest western performance as the lead heavy shows what he can do as the psychotic killer Loco or El Tigrero in the Italian version. He dominates the film and nearly succeeds in making it HIS film. A ferocious and callous film that goes against the grain refusing to allow good to triumph over evil. A bonafide gothic horror western similar in look to Mario Bava’s ‘Wurdulak’ segment in his THREE FACES OF FEAR. At the behest of nervous producers, Corbucci was asked to shoot an alternate ending for other markets that would not tolerate such a brutal finish. According to Howard Hughes exhaustive book ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE ITALIAN WEST, there was a rumor that Clint Eastwood was going to remake the film but nothing ever came of it. The film failed in Italy but was successful in Germany and France but could not secure US distribution. Simply the highest recommendation.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: tucumcari bound on September 15, 2007, 04:51:52 PM
This film is brilliant.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Jill on September 16, 2007, 02:13:23 PM
Of course it is!  O0

It would be a nice movie if Tigrero met Tomas Milian in his Chaco form... the two most sadistic villains united. Everyone would have died...  ;D


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: tucumcari bound on September 16, 2007, 04:18:15 PM
Of course it is!  O0

It would be a nice movie if Tigrero met Tomas Milian in his Chaco form... the two most sadistic villains united. Everyone would have died...  ;D

I say it's brilliant because I caught it on TV late last night. rr made me aware that it was on the IFC channell. I think they're playing it again tonight if I'm not mistaken.

The atmosphere to this western is brilliantly captured by Sergio Corbucci. It gets better everytime!


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Jill on September 17, 2007, 10:10:12 AM
Yes, that athmosphere... the snow and the coldness... you can feel there will nothing good happen.  :'( Very sad, and great.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: tucumcari bound on September 17, 2007, 03:14:05 PM
Yes, that athmosphere... the snow and the coldness... you can feel there will nothing good happen.  :'( Very sad, and great.

Well, the first time I watched this, I was one of the one's who was shocked by the ending. I'm still shocked till this day. I was not expecting that outcome!


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Jill on September 18, 2007, 03:30:43 AM
I knew it, but it was really shocking.  :'(


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: tucumcari bound on September 18, 2007, 08:51:17 AM
I knew it, but it was really shocking.  :'(

You guessed Silence was going to be blown away before it happened?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Jill on September 18, 2007, 11:58:43 AM
A damned movie encyclopedia wrote the spoiler that the Bad wins.

But it was so heartbreaking. Poor Silenzio.  :'(


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: tucumcari bound on September 18, 2007, 12:31:42 PM
A damned movie encyclopedia wrote the spoiler that the Bad wins.

But it was so heartbreaking. Poor Silenzio.  :'(

That sucks. I absolutely hate when I read a review and it contains a spoiler in it before I watch it. At least you still enjoy the film even though it makes you sad.  :'(


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Groggy on October 30, 2007, 05:50:48 PM
What's wrong with the alternate ending? How's it any worse or implausible than the ending to any number of other Spaghettis (Django or Fistful come to mind)?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Ben Tyreen on October 30, 2007, 06:15:14 PM
Quote
What's wrong with the alternate ending? How's it any worse or implausible than the ending to any number of other Spaghettis (Django or Fistful come to mind)?

  Maybe the Frank Wolff reappearance qualifies here, but not the other stuff.  Silence talking and then that metal guard of some sort on his hand?  That's just too much.  Damn funny though. ;D


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Jill on October 31, 2007, 04:38:18 AM
I always knew he's not a mute! He was just simulating!  >:D


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Groggy on October 31, 2007, 09:23:07 AM
  Maybe the Frank Wolff reappearance qualifies here, but not the other stuff.  Silence talking and then that metal guard of some sort on his hand?  That's just too much.  Damn funny though. ;D

Silence talked? I must have missed that part. I agree that the metal glove was stupid however.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Ben Tyreen on October 31, 2007, 10:38:28 AM
Quote
Silence talked? I must have missed that part. I agree that the metal glove was stupid however.

  I might be combining the alternate ending with the trailer from the DVD.  Watch the trailer, at the end, it might be the last shot, it shows Silence talking.  I still am caught off-guard when I see it.  Hey, wait a minute, isn't he supposed to be mute......? ;D


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on October 31, 2007, 11:30:30 AM
  I might be combining the alternate ending with the trailer from the DVD. 


That's exactly right.

Silence doesn't talk in the alternate ending.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: mike siegel on November 29, 2007, 06:46:04 PM
I remember there was always talk about the format SILENZIO was shot. Some claimed 4:3 with  MATTE in the theaters (1:1,66 or US Widescreen 1:1,85). I recently purchased a 35mm print, for the record: it was shot in 1:1,85.
The DVD ratio is not that bad but it is not perfect either:

 (http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1612/7186524/13731420/290794396.jpg)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: dave jenkins on November 29, 2007, 07:05:18 PM
Thanks, Mike. Once again, we're all in your debt.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on November 29, 2007, 09:42:41 PM
Thanks for the info Mike


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Tuco the ugly on November 30, 2007, 09:48:22 AM
Yeah, Mike shines every now and then.  O0


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: silvanski on January 13, 2009, 11:11:15 PM
I need to get the DVD. It's my favorite after the Leone westerns. Jean-Louis Trintignant was a rather weird choice for the part of the mysterious gunman, but he pulled it off


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on January 13, 2009, 11:40:21 PM
I need to get the DVD. It's my favorite after the Leone westerns. Jean-Louis Trintignant was a rather weird choice for the part of the mysterious gunman, but he pulled it off

Franco Nero told me he was offered the part but he had to leave for America to make Camelot (And we all know how that turned out). Corbucci was furious.

All this makes sense since Trintignant is made up to look like Nero in Django.
At least that was the impression I always got.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on June 24, 2009, 04:25:53 PM
In his new book, "10,000 Ways to Die", Alex Cox says that the US R1 release is a "better looking, more complete version" than the UK R2 release. I was under the impression that both releases were complete and of the same image quality, with the R2 release being preferable due to it having the Italian audio track as well as the English one.

I am also aware that an extra with Alex Cox discussing the film is included on the US R1 release but not the UK R2 release which is rather ironic seeing as he is English. This perhaps explains why he favors the R1 release; perhaps NTSC and PAL differences misled him concerning running times.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on June 25, 2009, 10:02:36 PM


I am also aware that an extra with Alex Cox discussing the film is included on the US R1 release

Yeah, it looks like he filmed himself with a camcorder in his laundry room or something.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on June 26, 2009, 06:03:04 AM
Just found this over at DVD Times (http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=12471) (bolded the relevant section):

Quote
The Great Silence has been released in Region 1 on a superb disc which contained a good transfer and some valuable extras. The Eureka Region 2 release is equally impressive on the transfer front but omits a couple of bonus features. Given that these were sourced in the UK and provided by our own Alex Cox, the omission is a little irksome.

The film was, unusually for a Spaghetti, shot in a ratio of approximately 1.66:1 and this is respected on the disc. The transfer is non-anamorphic but this is the only major criticism. I was knocked off my seat by the clarity and richness of this image. Colours , often deliberately muted, come across strongly and the level of detail is immaculate. There is some print damage evident in places but this is relatively minor and considerably less of a problem than I would have expected for a film which, for all its qualities, is reasonably obscure. The print used looks identical to the Region 1 release from Fantomas and the transfer may even be a little more impressive.

There are two soundtracks included. The Region 1 Fantomas release contains an English 2.0 Mono mix which sounds a little crackly and suffers from hiss but is otherwise reasonably good. The Region 2 contains both this English track – identical to the Region 1 in quality – and also an Italian 2.0 Mono track which sounds a good deal cleaner. However, the downside of this is that it sounds a little too artificial and lacks atmosphere. Music comes across strongly on both tracks and dialogue – which would have been post-dubbed in any case – is eminently clear on the English track. English subtitles are offered for those who prefer the Italian track and it’s very nice to have the choice of which to listen to. I tended to prefer the English for its more natural sound but it’s a close-run thing.

The only extras are an Italian theatrical trailer, in poor condition, and the extraordinary alternative ending which exists only in a soundless version. Shot for the North African market, where it was considered the downbeat ending would be disastrous, it’s a complete mess which is very funny but also rather frightening when you consider that it was made by allegedly intelligent people. I won’t reveal what it contains but be prepared for the most unlikely ‘arrival of the cavalry’ scenes you’ve ever seen.

The extras from the Region 1 which are omitted are the Alex Cox introduction to the film – which is like one of his Moviedrome pieces; enjoyable and informed but not essential – and a brief commentary on the alternative ending. I can live without these pieces but it’s hard to believe that they would have been very difficult for Eureka to include. Possibly the cost of submitting them to the BBFC was prohibitive in the circumstances.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on June 26, 2009, 06:15:44 AM
I remember there was always talk about the format SILENZIO was shot. Some claimed 4:3 with  MATTE in the theaters (1:1,66 or US Widescreen 1:1,85). I recently purchased a 35mm print, for the record: it was shot in 1:1,85.
The DVD ratio is not that bad but it is not perfect either

DVD Compare (http://www.dvdcompare.net/comparisons/film.php?fid=2749) says the following:
Quote
The French release is the only edition with an anamorphic transfer, and it has some nice extra material too. However, its aspect ratio is 1.85:1, so it must be slightly cropped, since the OAR is 1.66:1.

Mike are you saying that the 1.85:1 version is not cropped because it reflects the OAR and that we are actually getting more image with it? Do you have a copy of the 1.66:1 version to make a comparison?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on June 26, 2009, 06:38:05 AM
Over at DVD Classik (http://www.dvdclassik.com/Critiques/dvd_grandsilence.htm) on the 1.85:1 French release:

Quote
Image : Nouvelle copie tirée d’un interpositif italien (tirée directement du négatif original), le DVD propose une image lumineuse, écrasant sans problème l’image de l’édition Fantoma parue en Zone 1. Les blancs sont respectés (encore heureux pour ce film !), très peu de granulation et surtout, la version qui vous est présentée ici est la version longue de 102 mn (durée vidéo, 106 mn durée cinéma) et non la version 98 mn de la VHS sortie dans les années 80.


New copy sourced from an Italian negative (sourced directly from an original negative), the DVD offers a bright image, easily surpassing the image of the Fantoma Edition which appeared in Zone 1. The whites are respected (particularly welcome for this film !), very little grain and above all, the version that is presented for you here is the long version of 102 min (video, 106 theatrical) and not the 98 min version from the VHS which came out in the 80s


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: mike siegel on June 26, 2009, 09:17:06 AM
Well, we don't know from where DVDcompare has its information. I doubt that they have a 35mm print...

All I can say that mine is a first release print from 1969.  1:1,85 is the OAR, not 1:1,66.
(on the right and left there is more picture information than on the DVD's (I know of).


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on June 26, 2009, 09:31:11 AM
Thanks for the info Mike. Here's a French DVD shot courtesy of Scherpschutter over at SWDB vs my UK DVD screenshot. The French one is much wider (count the trees and note the black fleck which is yet to appear on the UK version), but also appears to be slightly cropped vertically (look at the respective mountain heights and the couple of rocks in the foreground):

French R2:(http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/7696/legrandsilence0191.jpg) (http://img389.imageshack.us/i/legrandsilence0191.jpg/)

UK R2:(http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/8268/vlcsnap86798.png) (http://img36.imageshack.us/i/vlcsnap86798.png/)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on June 26, 2009, 12:39:27 PM
In his new book, "10,000 Ways to Die", Alex Cox says that the US R1 release is a "better looking, more complete version" than the UK R2 release. I was under the impression that both releases were complete and of the same image quality, with the R2 release being preferable due to it having the Italian audio track as well as the English one.

I am also aware that an extra with Alex Cox discussing the film is included on the US R1 release but not the UK R2 release which is rather ironic seeing as he is English. This perhaps explains why he favors the R1 release; perhaps NTSC and PAL differences misled him concerning running times.

Ooops, looks like I misread Alex Cox and have done him a bit of an injustice. He is referring to the Imagica R2 DVD which is the Japanese release, not the UK Eureka release. I got confused with Japan and the UK both being R2.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: stanton on June 26, 2009, 01:59:23 PM
I'm still not sure.

You can get widescreen on a 35 mm film (which has a 1,33:1 aspect ratio) by using an anamorphic lens which compresses a 2,35:1 picture to the 1,33:1 of the camera negative. In the cinema they depress it with another special lens back to 2,35:1. Without these lens it is squeezed, just like faulty DVDs, on which the anamorphic flag does not work.
It's mostly 2,35:1 but there are also other formats possible. Vistavision for example could go even down to 1,85:1 (like for The Searchers)
But Mike Siegel's print is obviously not anamorphic.

Or you just use the complete 1,33:1 picture when filming, but you don't show the top and bottom of the picture in cinema by simply masking them. Of course if the are shooting it for a widescreen presentation the picture composition of the filmmakers has to consider that these parts won't be seen in a cinema. But they are visible on a open matte presentation either on TV or DVD.
But either if you are masking them with 1,66:1 or 1,78:1 or 1,85:1 or you show them without any masking, the sides should always be the same.

And so many people can't be at fault by stating that TGS was originally intended for 1,66:1. An aspect ratio Corbucci has often used in his westerns (Django, Johnny Oro, What do We do ...). It's called Panoramico in Bruckner's book, but Minnesota Clay and Massacro are on DVD in 1,85:1, while Django and TGS are in 1,66:1. In all versions worldwide so far.

But Mike knows probably more about Widescreen techniques.

I still don't know what Panoramico means. In contrast to the anamorphic formats, which are named in the credits (mostly Techniscope for SWs), Panoramico isn't. But Bruckner names it for many SWs.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on June 26, 2009, 03:13:20 PM
Wow this technical stuff is getting a little out of my depth now but I think I follow what you are saying. Your point regarding Django being at 1.66:1 is also a good one.

Hopefully Mike can shed some more light here but, with his print being non-anamorphic 1.85:1 and showing significantly more information on either side, surely 1.85:1 is the original ratio? Actually Mike I'd be interested to hear if your print retains the little bit of extra height not on the French DVD.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: mike siegel on June 27, 2009, 03:48:08 AM
Aspect ratios - once you become a movie nut, it seems to be as important as the creative powers behind the art of filmmaking...
I started out at the age of ten, and for 30 years now OAR is a running theme...
I have to admit sometimes I don't see it that serious - although I'm a perfectionist I guess (unnerving to many :).
Because I'm really happy the way the handling of OAR's by HomeVideo & TV enhanced over the years.  The beginnings were rather
hard to take - with the many PAN/SCAN videos and so on...

With the occasional loser, like the old 1:2,2 DVD of DIRTY DOZEN and certain Hitchcocks, OAR a handled pretty good these days.
Which is great.

But once you love a film, you want to see as much of it as possible :)  Me too.
I never was a friend of to much overscan anyway. I hate cut-off titles watching widescreen films.

The world of formats is a big world: I'd say you can 'name' some 200! Often same technique with a different licence..

PANORAMICA for instance is TECHNISCOPE  handled by a lab not attached with TECHNICOLOR LABs. (CROMOSCOPE too).

1:1,85 / 1:1,66: There are two ways too achieve that effect. Either you mask it while filming in the camera gate, or you mask your 1:1,33 35mm print
while projecting it. The best proof still is the check an actual 35mm print. My experience tells me that 1:1,85 films were mostly masked in the camera, 1:1,66 films are mostly OPEN MATTE.     Films composed for 1:1,85 should never printed as OPEN MATTE: we all know embarrassing microphones and stuff...


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on June 27, 2009, 10:53:27 AM
1:1,85 / 1:1,66: There are two ways too achieve that effect. Either you mask it while filming in the camera gate, or you mask your 1:1,33 35mm print
while projecting it. The best proof still is the check an actual 35mm print. My experience tells me that 1:1,85 films were mostly masked in the camera, 1:1,66 films are mostly OPEN MATTE.     Films composed for 1:1,85 should never printed as OPEN MATTE: we all know embarrassing microphones and stuff...

So if TGS was 1.85:1 via masking in the camera, does this mean that the 1.66:1 version basically involves masking the left and right of the image at a later date?

The very little bit of vertical cropping on the top/bottom of the French release appears similar to other cases when you get very slight, but mostly relatively insignificant, variations depending on the company releasing it. Out of curiosity, why does this happen so often?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: mike siegel on June 27, 2009, 01:44:41 PM
Left and right information gets lost, when you zoom into the frame. (PAN / SCAN the worst example.)

And to avoid problems with the frame line (You saw it in cinemas, you see a bit of the bottom of the picture
at the top of the screen), one usually masks always a little bit at the top / bottom of the frame. They
just sometimes overdo it! I hate that. Homevideo gives the opportunity to present the film in its complete
format. So thanks for the guys who do it!

But it is the same with cinemas! Once you really look out for that stuff, you suddenly notice the chopped
heads, film information on the curtains or the black screen masks...

Most multiplex cinemas nowadays have only to formats! Scope and 1:1,85!  Though luck when
you go and see a nice arthouse film composed & printed 1:1,66 ...


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on June 28, 2009, 01:34:55 PM
French R2 - courtesy of Scherpschutter at SWDB:
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7503/legrandsilence0181.jpg)

UK R2:
(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/7619/vlcsnap186292.png)

Japanese R2 (trailer) -courtesy of Ennioo at SWDB:
(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4817/pdvd000oli.jpg)

UK R2 (trailer):
(http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/6702/vlcsnap211190.png)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Dust Devil on August 05, 2009, 03:27:49 PM
Il grande silenzio is a beautiful and thoughtful movie, great (S)W, and Sergio Corbucci's best directorial achievement. I watch it a couple of times a year and it never gets old or boring.


8.65/10


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on August 19, 2009, 09:07:42 AM
Apparently there is a new UK R2 release coming: http://www.spaghetti-western.net/forum/index.php/topic,2188.new.html#new

No specs as yet but I hope it will have the English and Italian audio with optional English subtitles of the current UK release with the much better image and correct aspect ratio of the French release.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: uncknown on October 08, 2009, 09:38:20 PM
I rate the Big Gundown better, saw the last 20 minutes on Encore Westerns Friday night.  In Silence, remember how Frrank Wolfe's gun wouldn't shoot because it was "too cold"?  The snow didn't stop Loco's gun hidden in the snowbank from working.

you noticed that, huh?
 8)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: uncknown on October 08, 2009, 09:53:13 PM
.

1:1,85 / 1:1,66: There are two ways too achieve that effect. Either you mask it while filming in the camera gate, or you mask your 1:1,33 35mm print
while projecting it. The best proof still is the check an actual 35mm print. My experience tells me that 1:1,85 films were mostly masked in the camera, 1:1,66 films are mostly OPEN MATTE.     

just the opposite Mike.

Only Japan and USA use 1:85 and it is almost always open matte (except for sfx shots and titles which are usually 1:85 hard matte)
Euro films are more likely to be hard-matte, esp. french and Italian, 1:75 OR 1:66

TGS on Fantoma is not even 1:66 more like 1:55 or less!
btw i KNOW the owners of Fantoma  PERSONALLYand i cant get in touch with them either!  LOL1


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: uncknown on October 08, 2009, 09:56:57 PM
In his new book, "10,000 Ways to Die", Alex Cox says that the US R1 release is a "better looking, more complete version" than the UK R2 release. I was under the impression that both releases were complete and of the same image quality, with the R2 release being preferable due to it having the Italian audio track as well as the English one.


WHAT'S up with the image in the opening shots? looks like it was shot thru a scrim!


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: uncknown on October 08, 2009, 10:04:19 PM
If director's intent was to provoke a reaction it worked - 50 replies on this thread.  I still think it's shite  ;D  Alex Cox should be ashamed of himself, how much did they pay him to do that commentary?  But he's forgiven, he gave us "Repo Man".

In his book Cox denigrates almost every aspect of GBU

nuff said


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: uncknown on October 08, 2009, 10:08:12 PM
Does anyone know if this was based on a true incident? I downloaded the Italian version of the film and added English subtitles. Oddly at the end of the film some German captions roll up outlining some kind of incident which took place in 1898. From what I can make out they refer to golddiggers, athough gold is not mentioned in the film. Anyone know the history of this?

it's Corbucci's version of a "happy ending".


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: uncknown on October 08, 2009, 10:10:37 PM
My only complaint is the "outlaws" are never really explained, it makes no sense in that respect. Why are there bounties on their heads?

why?
because i knew someone like you once and there was no one there to help"


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: uncknown on October 08, 2009, 10:15:01 PM
to cusser



kinski's gun was wraped in deer skins. therefore it was warm enough to fire.
that was explained about 30 minutes into the movie( the whole keep youre gun warnm by doing this)

and i assume the deer skins were wrapped in an electric blanket...


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: uncknown on October 08, 2009, 10:18:45 PM
Yeau Titoli in the silent alternate ending the "still alive"sheriff(Frank Wolff) appears on a horse from nowhere just when you think Loco and his mob are about to finish of Silence stooping around in the snow and together they kill Loco and co,the townsfolk are saved....

actually, that's what i thought was going to happen (i knew from the doc THE SPAGHETTI WEST THAT SILENCE WAS KILLED)
except for that silly smile -check out those caps - it would have been preferable


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: uncknown on October 08, 2009, 10:20:41 PM
 I always thought the alternate happy ending was pretty ridiculous.  Just the way Frank Wolff reappears with no explanation as how he survived the fall through the ice makes me cringe.  

well, its no more unbelievable than the sherrif lettting Loco take a shit in the woods, "Go in your pants dammit"
and TURNING HIS BACK ON HIM!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Dust Devil on October 09, 2009, 10:58:01 AM
Seems like you really have a problem with the movie, unknown one.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Groggy on October 09, 2009, 11:01:48 AM
Yeah, ten straight posts on it is the sign of a problem.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: uncknown on October 09, 2009, 12:03:40 PM
Yeah, ten straight posts on it is the sign of a problem.

ALZHEIMERS?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on October 09, 2009, 08:16:52 PM
Quote
kinski's gun was wraped in deer skins. therefore it was warm enough to fire.
that was explained about 30 minutes into the movie( the whole keep youre gun warnm by doing this)

and i assume the deer skins were wrapped in an electric blanket...

Actually we went over this somewhere its actually not about the warmth of the gun.... its about the condensation. When you take a warm gun from, say inside a house, out in to colder air condensation forms upon the metal, if its below freezing this will ice up the moving parts. We always left our rifles out in the truck over night in Montana when we were going hunting the next day to prevent this. The rifles stayed at the ambient temperature.

So... Loco was keeping his gun dry at the ambient temp.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Dust Devil on October 09, 2009, 09:31:17 PM
Can't fight the oracle, uncknown one.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on October 10, 2009, 08:57:24 AM
Actually we went over this somewhere its actually not about the warmth of the gun.... its about the condensation. When you take a warm gun from, say inside a house, out in to colder air condensation forms upon the metal, if its below freezing this will ice up the moving parts. We always left our rifles out in the truck over night in Montana when we were going hunting the next day to prevent this. The rifles stayed at the ambient temperature.

So... Loco was keeping his gun dry at the ambient temp.

Ahhh, makes sense. Thanks for clarifying that.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: SilenceSWDB on October 10, 2009, 10:10:44 AM
One of the best films I've seen, not much more to say there 8)!


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: dave jenkins on May 19, 2010, 03:36:23 PM
Blu-ray! http://www.amazon.de/dp/B003MDHNQQ/ref=nosim?tag=dvdbeaver0c-21&link_code=as2&creativeASIN=B003MDHNQQ&creative=374929&camp=211189


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on October 02, 2012, 07:37:16 PM
Seems Japan is going to beat Germany on the BD release:

http://www.tc-ent.co.jp/products/detail.php?product_id=1881

Whole bunch of other spaghetti westerns going to be released on BD too:

http://www.tc-ent.co.jp/products/detail.php?product_id=1880
http://www.tc-ent.co.jp/products/detail.php?product_id=1882
http://www.tc-ent.co.jp/products/detail.php?product_id=1883
http://www.tc-ent.co.jp/products/detail.php?product_id=1884


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: dave jenkins on October 03, 2012, 07:29:08 AM
Yeah, the Japs love their "macaroni Westerns."


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on October 13, 2012, 10:35:38 AM
On Amazon.co.jp, Django is listed as 1080p, but The Great Silence as only 1080i  :o


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: dave jenkins on October 13, 2012, 04:27:31 PM
 :o :o :o


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on January 22, 2013, 08:17:14 PM
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz337/cigarjoe/title_zps7e85f26f.jpg)

Neo Noir Western The Great Silence. You just need tone down your overly inquisitive brain, and watch it's images of the barren snow bound wilderness of 1898 Snow Hill play out, and you'll better enjoy the the sightly off kilter stylistic Neo Noir Western world that Corbucci creates. Corbucci utilizes the bleak alpine landscape to the maximum, creating an atmosphere of desolation and despair that cilngs and haunts you long after its over.



(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz337/cigarjoe/bodies_zps5c510662.jpg)

<spoilers below>

Directed by Sergio Corbucci starring Jean-Louis Trintignant, Klaus Kinski, Vonetta McGee and Frank Wolff, with (Sergio Leone staples) Luigi Pistilli and Mario Brega, and also Marisa Merlini. Writing credits Mario Amendola, Bruno Corbucci, Sergio Corbucci, and Vittoriano Petrilli.

Klaus Kinski
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz337/cigarjoe/Loco_zps2bdfd550.jpg)

Trintignant
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz337/cigarjoe/Trintignant_zps649fdbf4.jpg)

Kinsky as Loco the bounty hunter oozes menace, the leader of a bunch of human buzzards, a bizarre grotesque reaper of the minor renegade/cultists/outlaws that inhabit the back country and control the passes into Snow Hill, a stage stop on the road to nowhere. Trintignant is Silence a hired gun who is summoned to Snow Hill by Pauline (Vonnetta McGee) the comely wife of a recently shot outlaw who wants revenge against Loco. She tries to borrow $1000 dollars from general store proprietor/banker/justice of the peace, Pollicut (Pistilli), the defacto town boss. He refuses and she in turn offers herself to Silence as payment. Frank Woff is the well meaning sightly buffonish new county sheriff, Burnett who with town madam Regina (Marisa Merlini) give off a Marshal Dillon-Kitty-Gunsmoke vibe.

Vonetta McGee & Trintignant
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz337/cigarjoe/vonetta_zps755bb1d4.jpg)

(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz337/cigarjoe/TheGreatSilence6_zps71fa6356.jpg)

From IMDb:

Brilliant, almost surreal piece set in the white land of demons, 11 March 2003

Author: Bogey Man from Finland

The late, great Italian film maker Sergio Corbucci (Django, Companeros) directed and co-wrote this incredible western, Il Grande Silenzio (aka The Great Silence) in 1968. It is as visually impressive and powerful in its silence as the greatest work of another Sergio, Leone, but what makes Corbucci's piece stand out is its total pessimism, honesty and possibly the darkest and saddest ending ever filmed. These powerful images are fantastic themselves, but when it all is given the magic touch of Ennio Morricone's music, it becomes clear this is perhaps the greatest of all the spaghetti westerns made in Italy.

Extremely great and also handsome actor Jean-Louis Trintignant is a killer named Silence. He has a dark childhood as his family was slaughtered in front of him and his own throat was slashed as a little boy so that he could never speak again, and he doesn't. He is a killer who kills for those who have been mistreated and abused by sadistic and barbaric bounty hunters and thieves that inhabit the area, Snowhill town, sometimes in the late 1800's. Another killer arrives to Snowhill, Loco (Klaus Kinski in a truly memorable role) and he is the other side of Silence: a totally ruthless killer who betrays his friends for money and the like, but still these two men share at least one thing in common. They won't shoot until their opposite has touched his gun first so that the killing could be told as "self defense". The late US actor Frank Wolff plays the funny Sheriff Burnett who tries to uphold the law in the city. Vonetta McGee in her first feature film performance (and a character in Alex Cox' Repo Man, Cox being a huge admirer of Corbucci's film) plays Pauline, a sad big eyed, dark beauty who has lost her husband to Loco's bullet. Everyone wants revenge and everyone also gets it, but never without realistic consequences. The film won't be any more merciful than the real life it's depicting itself.  CONTINUED...



Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on January 22, 2013, 08:18:07 PM
This belongs to the most powerful experiences I've had for a long time. The magic of silence, proved in its most beautiful and sensitive form in the art of Japanese Takeshi Kitano for example, is totally unique in this tale of the mute killer. He naturally doesn't speak a word during the whole film but still he says much more than many speaking characters here and in much less noteworthy films of any genre. The eyes, the movements, the face expressions in cinema can be much more than any words ever could and this film is a very good example to show it. Especially the love scene between Silence and Pauline is among the most beautiful scenes I've ever seen as the suffered, but still full of (fateful) hate and anger, wife of the dead man falls in love with Silence and sadly doesn't realize to give up the thoughts of revenge before it's too late. The emotions and love in that brief and silent scene are real, they are perhaps even more than some real human beings can ever achieve in their lives.

The darkest and most brutal sides of human nature are here present all the time and the things get almost surreal at times. In Il Grande Silenzio, everyone wants to avenge the wrongs they've suffered, no matter if they're themselves old, weak, strong, young or anything, they just want to answer to violence with violence and of course it never works until there's one man who'd dare to say no to his instincts and feelings of primitive hate and rage. The ending of the film is so harrowingly real (and prolonged) it becomes almost unbearable in its sadness and both mental (especially) and physical violence. Again Kinski's eyes tell everything that is necessary. At this point I'll point out that I'm definitely not talking about the alternative (and very bad) "happy ending" Corbucci was forced to shoot for some foreign audiences like the Far East and North Africa, as the producers thought they would have probably disliked the film too much in its original form and finale, THE original finale I'm talking about. Il Grande Silenzio shows our nature in its ugliest form, in a place in which one has to struggle to survive but still should remember how can we treat each other in any kind of situation. The theme of violence, greediness and overall decadence of man has never been this strong in the Italian western genre and naturally the ending broke all the conventions and rules of the genre, because this film just wants to be and is so much more.

The imagery is stunning in the wintery mountains and white heaven in hell. It is snowing all the time and the coldness of the place comes through the screen. One extremely memorable element in the exteriors is the bunch of outlaws that moves with scythes and other weapons silently around the place trying to find something to eat, like horses of some casual travellers. The silence of the group when it arrives and surrounds the camera is very haunting and as we don't really get to know where they live and stay for night, it becomes almost a surreal element and a very creepy one. Another similar elements can be found for example in British Philip Ridley's disturbing Reflecting Skin (1990) as it has the mysterious black car driving around and other unknown characters haunting the small protagonist (Jeremy Cooper) in his journey towards the (again) sad ending. Surrealism in cinema is among the things that make the art so fascinating and fantastic.

The cinematography is Corbucci's film is nothing short of mind blowing with some great compositions and different angles plus some extreme close ups to make each scene look as powerful as their potential. The white is the dominating color here (in addition to the red that is poured by the characters onto the peaceful white) and it all is captured on screen with huge talent that leaves no space for questions about Corbucci's abilities as a film maker. Also the occasional shaky shots and zooms work greatly as nothing is used too often or without reason. Everything that is there can be explained and have their reason.

Again the music by the masterful Ennio Morricone is something that can make and makes tears come to the viewer eyes when heard over the already wonderful and powerful images. Cinema just could not be any more powerful when imagery, the eyes, the faces like these and music like this give power to each other and show sides of each other that otherwise would be hidden. The music is on the same brilliant level with the music in Leone's films, but it is so sad and without any "heroic" touches in Corbucci's vision of the West.

Il Grande Silenzio is a masterpiece of Italian cinema and easily the greatest achievement of its director. It has important and serious things to tell and depict, things that are (t)here unfortunately today as they were back then, and so the film is as topical and true as it was back then and will remain so until, if ever, its target will change. The cinematic magic could not be any more fantastic than it now is, and there are no any negative sides I would consider forth mentioning in the piece at all. A masterpiece, honest, raw, beautiful, mighty cinema and thoroughly real. 10/10
 
Frank Wolff
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz337/cigarjoe/Wolff_zps36cebe7e.jpg)

The rock, pines, shanties, and blood sharply contrast against the white snow noir-ishly with another Morricone masterpiece of a soudtrack, and one of the bleakest endings of any Western out there.

(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz337/cigarjoe/SnowHill_zps47b2b8b8.jpg)

(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz337/cigarjoe/Trintignant2_zps2841b82c.jpg)

My rating is going up, out Fargo's Fargo. 8/10.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: mike siegel on January 23, 2013, 08:32:19 AM
I'm glad you liked it that much :)

I first saw it when I was 13 I guess, it had the same impact on me as
my other favorite films from 68 / 69, MIDNIGHT COWBOY, EASY RIDER, Z, WILD BUNCH ...
When film makers not only had to say something, but were able to say it ...

I thought of it yesterday, 'bought a nice Argentinian poster last night :)

Some of my SILENZIO memorabilia.
9 Italian photobustas / German first release poster + 18 lobby cards,
Japanese / Argentinian / French / Belgium first release posters,
German re-release posters + lc's, some b/w's, some brochures, soundtrack record.

I also attach the 35mm reference shots again. I cropped the Kinski shot
so maybe someone can compare it with DVD's etc.
(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/silenzio017.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/s-bu2.jpg)
(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/s-bu3.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/s-bu4.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/s-bu5.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/s-bu6.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/s-bu7.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/s-bu8.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/s-bu9.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/silenzio013.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/silenzio011.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/silenzio012.jpg)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: mike siegel on January 23, 2013, 08:34:43 AM
(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/sileniojap.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/silenioarg.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/silenzio014.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/silenzio010.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/silenzio009.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/silenzio015.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/silenzio016.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/s-bw1.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/s-bw2.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/DSC01155.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/silenzioframe3.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/silenzioframe.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/posters%20western%20peplum%20war%20crime/silenzioframe2.jpg)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on January 23, 2013, 03:42:54 PM
nice collection.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on January 23, 2013, 07:59:04 PM
nice collection.

Indeed

I also attach the 35mm reference shots again. I cropped the Kinski shot so maybe someone can compare it with DVD's etc.

Ah yes I remember that whole debate about the correct aspect ratio for this one. I Can't remember what the ultimate conclusion was however.

There were rumors of a German BD a while back, but it never materialized.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Senza on March 02, 2013, 07:47:22 PM
I just watched the happy ending, and even though I'm a big fan/supporter of happy endings, it really ruined the movie. The sad ending where silence is shot down in slow motion is intense!


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Groggy on October 20, 2013, 08:34:25 PM
Liked this more on a rewatch. That seems to be a trend.

Quote
Sergio Corbucci produced one of the best Spaghetti Westerns with The Great Silence (1968). Notorious for its bleak ending (Christopher Frayling claims a contemporary viewer was so incensed he fired a pistol at the theater screen!), its stylishness and creativity elevate it above most Spaghettis.

Bounty killers led by the psychotic Loco (Klaus Kinski) ravage isolated Snowhill, Utah. Their only opposition is Silence (Jean-Louis Trintigant), a mute gunslinger with a Mauser Broomhandle who sides with Loco's victims - a band of starving outlaws holed up in the mountains. One outlaw's widow (Vonetta McGee) hires Silence to kill Loco. The Sheriff Barnett (Frank Wolff) arrives in Snowhill, determined to reestablish law and order. But Silence and the Sheriff find handling Loco a tough proposition.

Corbucci shot most of Silence in Italy's Dolomite Mountains, using some Doctor Zhivago-esque trickery for the town scenes (reportedly shaving cream was employed!). He uses the setting to great effect: the snow storm isolates the town and helps drive the story, as when Barnett's uncovered pistol freezes. You can count the number of snow-covered Westerns on one hand (Day of the Outlaw? Jeremiah Johnson?), and photographer Silvano Ippoliti makes Silence a sight to behold. Helped by Ennio Morricone's somber score, it's a genuinely beautiful film.

Silence matches its unconventional setting with a devastating genre deconstruction. Silence himself pushes the Western hero to near-comic extremes: Clint Eastwood and Franco Nero barely speak, so why not make Silence mute? The character still maintains a kind of chivalry; he goads villains into drawing first, and won't shoot wounded men. Trying that on Loco, he gets roughed up for his trouble. Similarly, Sheriff Barnett is less Wyatt Earp than Old West General Gordon, sent by spineless politicians to "manage" an insolvable situation singlehanded. These conventional protagonists prove thoroughly inadequate to save Snowhill.


Similarly, Corbucci mocks the idea of frontier justice. For one, the outlaws are harmless tramps; the film implies they're persecuted Mormons. Loco receives sanction from crooked Judge Pollicutt (Luigi Pistilli), who runs Snowhill as a personal fiefdom. Utah's Governor (Carlo D'Angelo) is mainly interested in reelection; sounding a noble call for equality, he asks an aide to note it for his next speech! With capital and killers working hand in glove, "justice" becomes frontier feudalism.

In his inimitable fashion, Corbucci saturates Silence with grisly violence. Silence's favorite trick involves shooting the thumbs off bad guys so they can't shoot back. Barnett's welcomed into town when the hill outlaws kill and eat his horse. One villain gets his face scorched by burning coals. But it's all prelude to the finale, where Loco goads Silence into an impossible showdown. It's Silence's chivalry against Loco's monstrous pragmatism, the outcome preordained.

Jean-Louis Trintignant (The Conformist) is interesting casting, channeling his cerebral intensity into a wordless gunfighter. But Klaus Kinski steals the show; he makes Loco more cocky schemer than cackling lunatic, but no less frightening. Vonetta McGee gives a strong performance: unlike most Spaghetti women, she's a tough cookie whose actions drive the plot. Luigi Pistilli's (For a Few Dollars More) officious Pollicutt contrats with Kinski's amorality. Frank Wolff (Salvatore Giuliano) plays Barnett broadly, undercutting his tragic arc.

The Great Silence isn't a perfect movie. The plot's a little rough around the edges, with the outlaws' role never fully established and some passages unnecessary (the Silence-Pauline romance). But its aesthetic beauty, good acting and grim atmosphere make for an experience that's decidedly different from most Spaghetti Westerns. 8/10

http://nothingiswrittenfilm.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-great-silence.html (http://nothingiswrittenfilm.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-great-silence.html)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on October 21, 2013, 06:12:59 AM
I wrote this way back at the start of this thread:

I was thinking today about how the story may have been made a little more believable. Lets say the "gang of outlaws" who live up in the mountains walk over the top of the snow and feed on dead horses are instead a gang of cannibals who feed on dead travelers (or even kill and eat travelers) who have tried and failed to make it over the passes into Snow Hill.

That would make Klaus Kinsky and his band of bounty killers more believable, and it would make the reward offer understandable. The way its portrayed now the outlaws are just pathetic.

 ;)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: noodles_leone on October 21, 2013, 08:19:23 AM
The alternative ending is one of the most hilarious deleted scenes I have ever seen. Good they didn't use it though.

In the audio commentary, they state that the editing was dictated by how many tourists you could see skiing in the background: they just selected the cleanest shots. Which is amazing since the movie really is beautiful.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: stanton on October 21, 2013, 12:19:01 PM
I wrote this way back at the start of this thread:

I was thinking today about how the story may have been made a little more believable. Lets say the "gang of outlaws" who live up in the mountains walk over the top of the snow and feed on dead horses are instead a gang of cannibals who feed on dead travelers (or even kill and eat travelers) who have tried and failed to make it over the passes into Snow Hill.

That would make Klaus Kinsky and his band of bounty killers more believable, and it would make the reward offer understandable. The way its portrayed now the outlaws are just pathetic.

 ;)

But they are no outlaws, they are just normal farmers turned into outlaws by an unjust law in the hands of corrupt businessman who only want to grab their land with this method.

But I see there is a smiley at the end of your post ...


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Groggy on October 21, 2013, 05:52:35 PM
Stanton's got it right. The whole point is that the outlaws aren't a threat. It's even hinted that the outlaws are victims of political or religious persecution rather than criminals. CJ's way would be more morally ambiguous, but I don't think Corbucci was going for ambiguity.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on October 22, 2013, 05:33:30 AM
Stanton's got it right. The whole point is that the outlaws aren't a threat. It's even hinted that the outlaws are victims of political or religious persecution rather than criminals. CJ's way would be more morally ambiguous, but I don't think Corbucci was going for ambiguity.

My trouble with that is the old Utah Territory, the surrounding environs of Nevada, Northern Arizona, and Southern Idaho are Mormon-ized so it doesn't quite   make much sense to just hint at it when you could have say tied in some actual historical incidents like the Edmunds Anti-Polygamy Act of 1882, passed in a wave of Victorian-era reaction to the perceived immorality of polygamy, or the  Edmunds–Tucker Act on May 19, 1890, that dis-incorporated The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or even the non religious Ludlow Massacre in the snow on April 20, 1914 where workers at Colorado mine went on strike, company guards fired machine guns and killed several men, 2 women and 11 children.

What we get instead from Corbucci is a total out and out fantasy, with a fake epilogue, when it could have been so much more.  


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: mike siegel on February 05, 2016, 04:47:12 AM
You may remember I mentioned the (often doubted) fact that the film was not released in English
language territory because Eastwood secured the rights for a remake?

Even Alex Cox knows about this:
https://vimeo.com/50101903


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on February 05, 2016, 05:55:53 AM
If I remember correctly, Cox suggests this in writing in his book "10,000 Ways to Die".


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Rojo Ramone on May 23, 2016, 02:39:30 PM
I like this film and would buy a BD in a heart beat.
However,  DJANGO is Corcucci's best.

Having said that Corbucci is nothing more than a second rate Leone (maybe even third :))
People who think Corbucci is better than Leone mustn't get Leone are are contrarians who think going against the grain makes them special (there are a lot of those on the internet)

People always wax on about the downbeat ending as though it was a stroke of genius.
I tend to think of this type betrayal of an audiences expectations is rather cheap and obvious.
A vengeance film without a payoff in the end is just dumb.

Still, it's in my top ten of most wanted films on BD
I love the snowy setting.





Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: stanton on May 23, 2016, 03:31:08 PM
Actually it was a stroke of genius. Corbucci was the only Spag director who had the talent and the ideas to rival Leone. And The Great Silence and The Mercenary are superior to most of Leone's films, but can't mess with OUTW and GBU. But then, only a few other films can.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Rojo Ramone on May 23, 2016, 06:26:54 PM
Actually it was a stroke of genius. Corbucci was the only Spag director who had the talent and the ideas to rival Leone. And The Great Silence and The Mercenary are superior to most of Leone's films, but can't mess with OUTW and GBU. But then, only a few other films can.

I respectfully disagree.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on May 23, 2016, 09:46:07 PM
And The Great Silence and The Mercenary are superior to most of Leone's films, but can't mess with OUTW and GBU. But then, only a few other films can.

So you prefer "The Mercenary" to "Once Upon a Time in America" for example?


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: stanton on May 24, 2016, 02:09:25 AM
So you prefer "The Mercenary" to "Once Upon a Time in America" for example?

Actually, yes. OUTA is overlong and never really fascinated me. I re-watched it 2 years ago, and I don't intend to watch it again the next 15 years, or so.

None of Corbucci's films is without flaws, but there is a lot of incredible stuff in The Great Silence and The Mercenary, and also some bold narrative ideas, which never got the worldwide recognition they deserved.

Of course Corbucci wasted his talent, it even seems he later unlearned how to direct films, but in his best films he was very creative. While Corbucci made too many films Leone must be blamed for making too little


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Cusser on May 24, 2016, 09:17:01 AM
1.  I own the DVD of Great Silence
2.  I watched this about 15 years ago.
3.  I watched for a second time just last night, wanted to hear the music and see some of the influences for Hateful Eight.

I personally don't see the genius in this film, but some scenes are very good.  The Mormons/outlaws look like an early Zombie attack.  Kinski is really good, as is Silence, but I sure can't see this film ranking with Leone's.  On the other hand, I'm glad they didn't use the "happy ending", and Alex Cox seems to be in love with this film.  Oh well, it was fun to see Pistilli, Brega too, and the snow.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: mike siegel on May 24, 2016, 09:47:36 AM
I'm with Stanton on this one. Although one can't compare Leone's pre-1970 films with SILENZIO & MERCENARIO, Leone was not into political undertones in the 60s. I will finally scan my 35mm print, as long as the colors are all there... a good reference, especially since it is a 1969 first release print.

(http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx88/eldoradofilm/Preview_Enc_Leichen_1.mov.Standbild002%20Kopie_zpsmkjqziya.jpg) (http://s744.photobucket.com/user/eldoradofilm/media/Preview_Enc_Leichen_1.mov.Standbild002%20Kopie_zpsmkjqziya.jpg.html)
(http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx88/eldoradofilm/Preview_Enc_Leichen_1.mov.Standbild001%20Kopie_zpsp7yxk5gl.jpg) (http://s744.photobucket.com/user/eldoradofilm/media/Preview_Enc_Leichen_1.mov.Standbild001%20Kopie_zpsp7yxk5gl.jpg.html)
(http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx88/eldoradofilm/Preview_Enc_Leichen_1.mov.Standbild006_zps3vdqgese.jpg) (http://s744.photobucket.com/user/eldoradofilm/media/Preview_Enc_Leichen_1.mov.Standbild006_zps3vdqgese.jpg.html)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on May 24, 2016, 01:16:21 PM
I'm with Stanton on this one. Although one can't compare Leone's pre-1970 films with SILENZIO & MERCENARIO, Leone was not into political undertones in the 60s.

If Corbucci's output had been roughly the same as Leone's (i.e. we only had his top handful or so of films to watch), he could have gone down as one of the all-time greats.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on May 24, 2016, 01:18:31 PM
I will finally scan my 35mm print, as long as the colors are all there... a good reference, especially since it is a 1969 first release print.

When can we expect the Blu-ray remastered from original elements  ::)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Rojo Ramone on May 24, 2016, 02:23:26 PM
I hope I didn't come off as a Corbucci hater.
It's just that I think Leone is on the level of a Kubrick or Tarkovsky.
A Master Of Cinema with no "false notes" :)

THE GREAT SILENCE is one of my favorite Non-Leone films most wanted on BD.
Margheriti's ...AND GOD SAID TO CAIN and KILL THE WICKEDS only rate higher for me.

Also, I wouldn't want a happy ending in GS.
It's original and great the way it is.
I just don't think it's that brilliant of a thought.
However, I do give Corbucci props for "sticking to his guns" :) and getting it released that way.
It must have been hard.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on May 24, 2016, 08:22:47 PM
Actually, yes. OUTA is overlong and never really fascinated me. I re-watched it 2 years ago, and I don't intend to watch it again the next 15 years, or so.

 :o :o

I hope I didn't come off as a Corbucci hater.

Not at all. Corbucci did make some good films. However, Leone's stuff was just sublime in my opinion.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Spikeopath on February 24, 2017, 11:44:00 AM
Having my first ever viewing tonight. Excited a touch I be.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on February 24, 2017, 03:46:24 PM
Enjoy, it's remotely/loosely based on the Ludlow Massacre, April 20, 1914. O0


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on March 11, 2017, 07:05:33 AM
Here's some good news from http://www.cinematheque.fr/film/62228.html

Quote
Restauré en 4K par la CSC – Cineteca Nazionale de Rome à partir des négatifs son et image mis à disposition par Movietime. La restauration a permis de récupérer la fin alternative, tournée par Corbucci à la demande des producteurs. Elle sera également montrée. Les travaux ont été réalisés aux Laboratoires Augustus Color et Studio Cine de Rome.

I assume a blu-ray will follow  :)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Spikeopath on March 11, 2017, 11:10:57 AM
For all I know he is the devil.

The Great Silence is directed by Sergio Corbucci and Corbucci co- writes the screenplay with Mario Amendola, Bruno Corbucci and Vittoriano Petrilli. It stars Jean-Louis Trintignant, Klaus Kinski, Frank Wolff, Luigi Pistilli, Vonetta McGee and Mario Brega. Music is by Ennio Morricone and cinematography by Silvano Ippoliti.

Snowhill, Utah - Winter at the turn of the century, and the local villagers have succumbed to thievery purely to survive. But with that comes bounties on their heads, which brings into the area the bounty hunters who are a law unto themselves. Enter the mute gunfighter known as Silence, who has a deep rooted hatred of bounty hunters...

Something of a cult classic and massively popular in Spaghetti Western fan's circles, The Great Silence is as perpetually cold as the snowy landscapes that surround this tale. Death is a financial commodity, greed and corruption stalks the land, while the shades between right and wrong are as blurry as can be. The violence cuts deep, none more so than with the famous finale that closes down the pic with a pneumatic thud. The photography captures the winter scapes perfectly and is in tune with the narrative drive, while maestro Morricone lays a ethereal musical score over proceedings.

There's some daft goofs such as a dead man blinking and manacles that mysteriously disappear, and not all the acting is of the standard that Kinski and Wolff provide, but this is one utterly unforgettable bowl of Spaghetti. Its reputation in the pasta circles well deserved. 8/10


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: stanton on March 12, 2017, 03:17:05 AM
Spike, that's a pretty low rating for this excellent film compared to your other ratings of westerns. I think this is one of the most notable westerns ever, from one of the genre's best directors.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Spikeopath on March 12, 2017, 10:20:16 AM
Spike, that's a pretty low rating for this excellent film compared to your other ratings of westerns. I think this is one of the most notable westerns ever, from one of the genre's best directors.

Hiya Stan.  Well I am happy that you laud it so highly, as for the director I will have to see some more of his work, but would a truly great director leave those goofs in? While some of the acting I found very poor, so I feel an 8/10 is the right grading from me personally.  That said, I now own it and will happily be rewatching it, so it could well go up  on rating during further viewings.

Cheers


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on March 12, 2017, 03:07:47 PM
Nah 8/10 is about right, it's a bit daffy in parts when it didn't have to be.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on March 12, 2017, 09:56:33 PM
Corbucci is always kind of "daffy" which is part of the charm. Then again this is probably one of his less "daffy" ones.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Jill on June 14, 2017, 08:33:20 AM
Sometimes I wonder whether GRRM knows this movie.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on June 16, 2017, 11:42:14 AM
Sometimes I wonder whether GRRM knows this movie.

 ???

Welcome back btw!


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on June 16, 2017, 05:02:58 PM
Sometimes I wonder whether GRRM knows this movie.

Who is GRRM?



Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: stanton on June 18, 2017, 02:26:43 AM
Hiya Stan.  Well I am happy that you laud it so highly, as for the director I will have to see some more of his work, but would a truly great director leave those goofs in? While some of the acting I found very poor,

Corbucci was a comparatively lazy director, and at this point did not have that much of an budget. Actually I never noticed one of these goofs, and also generally I don't care much for goofs or the usual continuity errors and stuff like that. This happens, and it won't drop a film for me.

I don't see there any poor acting. The only thing I don't like is that Corbucci made a caricature out of Wolff's Sheriff. This does not work for me, and is my only real point of criticism.

But even that can't detract from the visual intelligence and conceptual exceptionality with all its bold ideas of this masterpiece, which makes it one of the best westerns ever. In Europe this film has a far better reputation than in the USA, or generally in the English speaking parts of the world.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on June 19, 2017, 07:47:25 AM
Corbucci was a comparatively lazy director...

I've never entirely bought that argument. He certainly said things to that effect as part of his jokey personality, and he certainly wasn't like Leone in his attention to detail, but I put the idea of Corbucci being "lazy" in the same category as Peckinpah having made nothing worth watching after "Garcia" - commonly stated, but a gross generalization.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: mike siegel on June 19, 2017, 12:03:24 PM
Well there is a slight difference :).
With the exception of CROSS OF IRON, Peckinpah's films after GARCIA of course are "lesser Peckinpah's",
but even those have a lot to offer and are still interesting today. While Corbucci (in my opinion  anyway)
wasted his talent after IL MERCENARIO, his last masterpiece. He lost interest in making significant films,
which I think is a shame. But I think as long as there are filmgoers who think COMPANEROS or any of his
later films can compete with his pre-1969 work, who cares :). Meantime I start work on a SILENZIO Blu-ray,
can't wait to see the master later this summer...


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: stanton on June 19, 2017, 02:16:09 PM
I've never entirely bought that argument. He certainly said things to that effect as part of his jokey personality, and he certainly wasn't like Leone in his attention to detail, but I put the idea of Corbucci being "lazy" in the same category as Peckinpah having made nothing worth watching after "Garcia" - commonly stated, but a gross generalization.

I buy it easily.
He had so much talent, and he wasted it so often. After Silence and Mercenary, which are more than Django his masterpieces, the next 2 films he made contain still some excellent scenes, especially Companeros is full of stuff which belongs to the best I have seen in any western, but there are also scenes in Companeros which really bear a big "I don't care" stamp on them.
After Companeros it all went down very quick and later he made some really bad films, which show nothing of his once stylish craftsmanship, which really give me the impression that one can lose his talent completely. They look totally dull.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Jill on June 19, 2017, 02:52:19 PM
Who is GRRM?



George R. R. Martin, famously murderous writer  >:D



Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on June 19, 2017, 08:20:45 PM
Well there is a slight difference :).
With the exception of CROSS OF IRON, Peckinpah's films after GARCIA of course are "lesser Peckinpah's",
but even those have a lot to offer and are still interesting today. While Corbucci (in my opinion  anyway)
wasted his talent after IL MERCENARIO, his last masterpiece. He lost interest in making significant films,
which I think is a shame. But I think as long as there are filmgoers who think COMPANEROS or any of his
later films can compete with his pre-1969 work, who cares :). Meantime I start work on a SILENZIO Blu-ray,
can't wait to see the master later this summer...

I buy it easily.
He had so much talent, and he wasted it so often. After Silence and Mercenary, which are more than Django his masterpieces, the next 2 films he made contain still some excellent scenes, especially Companeros is full of stuff which belongs to the best I have seen in any western, but there are also scenes in Companeros which really bear a big "I don't care" stamp on them.
After Companeros it all went down very quick and later he made some really bad films, which show nothing of his once stylish craftsmanship, which really give me the impression that one can lose his talent completely. They look totally dull.

Well, I suppose I'm playing devil's advocate to a degree  :)

To be honest, I've avoided most of Corbucci's stinkers (which probably represent the larger part of his oeuvre), but I don't think anyone who supposedly didn't care that much could ever have come out with some of the stuff he did - I mean it was hardly accidental.

Regarding "post-Garcia Peckinpah": the first 20-30 minutes of "The Killer Elite" is top-notch Peckinpah - the rest is ruined by all the martial arts nonsense (in a weird way it makes me think of "My Name is Nobody" as something that could have been great being ruined by a separate incompatible agenda); "Cross of Iron" is an absolute masterpiece (as we all agree I think); "The Osterman Weekend" is not his very best but most people aren't evaluating the director's cut which does play much better and is nonetheless a very good flick (hey, not everything can be a masterpiece); "Convoy" isn't really a "Peckinpah film" for a variety of reasons (although it is entertaining nonetheless, but hardly a classic).


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: mike siegel on June 20, 2017, 01:16:41 AM
I'm recording an audio-commentary for THE KILLER ELITE this week, quite a task :).
But again, as a film historian I always try to consider the back story when judging
films. KILLER ELITE is the result of just that, which is a bit unfortunate:
Peckinpah had signed to film the novel, which played in London and Africa - NO martial arts.
That came about when Jimmy Caan was signed. He preferred not to film in Europe again
for a longer period and the new script was written by Bruce Lee student Stirling Siliphant
(who wanted to showcase his wife Tiana, another Lee student). UA wanted straight-forwarded
action, Peckinpah just couldn't take it seriously and wanted satire. It lacks harmony.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on October 10, 2017, 12:30:09 PM
Releases in other countries from the same 4k restoration source are expected:

(https://forum.spaghetti-western.net/uploads/db4315/optimized/2X/0/0d53f733b37a3c37ebe2a07c2689fb98ae31688e_1_299x500.jpg)


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Novecento on October 16, 2017, 07:10:43 AM
Ok - so it seems like this might not be from the recent 4K restoration...

https://forum.spaghetti-western.net/t/blu-ray-latest-and-upcoming-releases/660/1833?u=novecento

Weird... I suppose we'll have to wait a little longer for that  :(


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: Kurug3n on October 22, 2017, 03:26:25 PM
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=22286 (http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=22286)

Next year is what they claim for a release and its being noted as a 2k restoration.


Title: Re: The Great Silence aka Il grande silenzio (1968)
Post by: mike siegel on October 23, 2017, 01:58:30 AM
Releases in other countries from the same 4k restoration source are expected:

(https://forum.spaghetti-western.net/uploads/db4315/optimized/2X/0/0d53f733b37a3c37ebe2a07c2689fb98ae31688e_1_299x500.jpg)

I'm working on that one right now :).