Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => The Good, The Bad and The Ugly => Topic started by: SirLancelot on April 19, 2005, 11:45:04 AM

Title: Sentenzais quite different from Mortimer... where did he flush his morality?
Post by: SirLancelot on April 19, 2005, 11:45:04 AM
I was shocked when I saw for the first time For a few Dollars More a few days ago.

For one thing buggers me a lot, I have realized that that Douglas Mortimer, brilliantly interpreted by Lee Van Cleef isnt quite the violent and cruel Sentenza from The Good the Bad and the Ugly.

Now, I know that in facts, it's supposed to be the same character, and the fact that Sentenza and Blondie know/fear eachother is quite convincing in that way.
But there is the drastic moral change that Sentenza has deal with in GBU. I mean, sure Mortimer didnt mind killing people, but it was for a right cause in it's way. All he wanted was to avenge his sister, he didnt even took the money in the end.
But Sentenza in the other hand, he's greedy and cruel. He doesnt mind killing anyone in his way or getting a few more bucks. His whole bloody investigation, having Tuco tortured, even having his own gang of hired outlaws...that's soewhat not Mortimer's style I thought.

Anyways, thoughts on this?
Title: Re: Sentenzais quite different from Mortimer... where did he flush his morality?
Post by: Cusser on April 19, 2005, 12:06:25 PM
Lance - it's not the same character.
Title: Re: Sentenzais quite different from Mortimer... where did he flush his morality?
Post by: SirLancelot on April 19, 2005, 07:58:54 PM
Well that would explain a lot, but again, why and how did Sentenza and Blondie knew eachother to begin with?
Title: Re: Sentenzais quite different from Mortimer... where did he flush his morality?
Post by: Poggle on April 19, 2005, 08:14:23 PM
Maybe they're both well known in their profession as con men/murderers? I'm pretty sure if they're as professional as they are at their illegitimate careers that they must be known in the 'underground' world. Remember in For a Few Dollars More how Mortimer finds out about Manco by hearing about him from the man giving him the reward money + the news paper article. That's probably how Leone's world works I'm guessing.

I kind of think that's how it is with the whole Harmonica/Frank thing too. Maybe Harmonica just knows a lot about Frank because he's well known in their world? Harmonica might've even known who Frank was before he was on his tail. "Faking evidence is one of Frank's tricks" he probably caught up to him and found out information from those who had issues with him.

There's quite a few Leone characters that are "well known" because of their reputation. Ramon and Indio being two of them(One of them, even!).

Sorry to have gone a little off-topic, but those two issues are kind of related. The answer to all this talk about "How does so-and-so know so-and-so!?" might be because it's just their reputation and since that might the case it would seem redundant for Leone to constantly repeat how characters are well known to other characters, yet we've kind of had a glimpse at why and how. Ramon by word-of-mouth, Manco by word of mouth and newspaper articles, and maybe that's all we need to know to understand how that system works. I think that shows Leone's genius, introducing the way his characters work and when you understand it he lets it go, so we know how it is but we don't have to be told over and over again 8)
Title: Re: Sentenzais quite different from Mortimer... where did he flush his morality?
Post by: The Smoker on April 20, 2005, 03:21:33 AM
Its playful relative thing.
Like Blondie finding the poncho at the end of GBU its a nod to the preceding films. kinda like bringing Clint's stylized profile full-circle. 'my particular favourite one'
Monco's Leather rist support. is a 'echo' from FOD and nothing more.
These are like style accents. like a Hitchcock cameo maybe. Or a horse in Andrei Tarkovsky's films. The same way people show respect to other filmmakers through tipping of the hat.

Leone's original opening idea for OUATITW of having.. Eastwood, Cleef & Wallach in dusters to meet Harmonica at the train station with the conclusion of all three of them dead on the platform, would have explained this idea alot more clearer I think.
Title: Re: Sentenzais quite different from Mortimer... where did he flush his morality?
Post by: cigar joe on April 20, 2005, 03:23:25 PM
Quote
Leone's original opening idea for OUATITW of having.. Eastwood, Cleef & Wallach in dusters to meet Harmonica at the train station with the conclusion of all three of them dead on the platform, would have explained this idea alot more clearer I think.

Yes and they wouldn't be the same characters most likely either just a "shadow" or echo of what came before but it would have been an ultra cool nod to what came before.
Title: Re: Sentenzais quite different from Mortimer... where did he flush his morality?
Post by: iceman on April 21, 2005, 12:11:52 PM
Maybe they're both well known in their profession as con men/murderers? I'm pretty sure if they're as professional as they are at their illegitimate careers that they must be known in the 'underground' world. Remember in For a Few Dollars More how Mortimer finds out about Manco by hearing about him from the man giving him the reward money + the news paper article. That's probably how Leone's world works I'm guessing.

I kind of think that's how it is with the whole Harmonica/Frank thing too. Maybe Harmonica just knows a lot about Frank because he's well known in their world? Harmonica might've even known who Frank was before he was on his tail. "Faking evidence is one of Frank's tricks" he probably caught up to him and found out information from those who had issues with him.

There's quite a few Leone characters that are "well known" because of their reputation. Ramon and Indio being two of them(One of them, even!).

Sorry to have gone a little off-topic, but those two issues are kind of related. The answer to all this talk about "How does so-and-so know so-and-so!?" might be because it's just their reputation and since that might the case it would seem redundant for Leone to constantly repeat how characters are well known to other characters, yet we've kind of had a glimpse at why and how. Ramon by word-of-mouth, Manco by word of mouth and newspaper articles, and maybe that's all we need to know to understand how that system works. I think that shows Leone's genius, introducing the way his characters work and when you understand it he lets it go, so we know how it is but we don't have to be told over and over again 8)

Was Bounty killing an illegitimate career. Or do you mean illegal career. was it illegal ??? ??? ??? ???

Ice
Title: Re: Sentenzais quite different from Mortimer... where did he flush his morality?
Post by: cigar joe on April 21, 2005, 02:13:34 PM
Legit, except for the part of shooting Tuco's rope,  ;D
Title: Re: Sentenzais quite different from Mortimer... where did he flush his morality?
Post by: redyred on April 28, 2005, 03:53:59 AM
For one thing buggers me a lot, I have realized that that Douglas Mortimer, brilliantly interpreted by Lee Van Cleef isnt quite the violent and cruel Sentenza from The Good the Bad and the Ugly.

Sorry, just noticed this. Do you mean bugs?
Title: Re: Sentenzais quite different from Mortimer... where did he flush his morality?
Post by: DJIMBO on April 28, 2005, 06:07:06 AM
lol, ever the facetious one, redyred
Title: Re: Sentenzais quite different from Mortimer... where did he flush his morality?
Post by: johnkinman on April 28, 2005, 09:34:42 AM
Looking back after all these years my opinion is as follows.
There is no continuity in any of the 3 films.In the first
film FOD it was marketed as the man with no name ,
and both the soundtrack titles were changed to go
along with this .The publicty in the newspapers
enlarged on this with the man with no name angle.
This was never originally meant but was a marketing
ploy. The idea of a connection is a marketing gimmic and
you have to view the films as seperate films.
Title: Re: Sentenzais quite different from Mortimer... where did he flush his morality?
Post by: lavidanovalenada on May 02, 2005, 05:28:31 AM
Think your missing the fact that A) as already mentioned they are three different movies and also B) The GBU is set before the other two