Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Other Films => Topic started by: Groggy on August 01, 2005, 03:31:39 PM

Title: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Groggy on August 01, 2005, 03:31:39 PM
I know some of you don't like Peckinpah. . . but you silly sods can just ignore this poll.  :P For the rest of us, feel free to answer the above.

My pick is easily "The Wild Bunch".  A perfect film in almost every way if you ask me.

BTW, the "others" include:
The Deadly Companions
Noon Wine
The Getaway
The Killer Elite
Cross of Iron
Convoy (don't think anyone will vote for that!  :P)

Maybe some I've forgotten?  :-\

Edit: Obviously I'd forgotten "Cross of Iron". . . some Peckinpah fan I am!  :P
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: grandpa_chum on August 01, 2005, 04:25:03 PM
the wild bunch is NOTHING compared to the directors cut of pat garrett and billy the kid... i would say it's not even as good as alfredo, getaway, or ride the high country... i just don't get it... i mean i love it as much as the next guy... but why is it undoubtedly the best peckinpah among most?
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: cigar joe on August 01, 2005, 09:14:43 PM
Well of the List I've only completely seen

Wild Bunch
The Deadly Companions
The Getaway
Pat Garret & Billy The Kid

and just parts of

Ballad of Cable Houge
Alfredo Garcia

So I'll hold off until I can watch RTHC before voting
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Dlanor on August 02, 2005, 02:31:01 AM
My favorite Peckinpah film is CROSS OF IRON. The most horrible war film I have ever seen. Not the film wich is horrible, but it really makes feel what war is in reality: horrible. Every war films since haven't made better in this way.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Banjo on August 02, 2005, 02:45:19 AM
Make that 2 votes for Cross of Iron - the battle of wills between James Coburn and Maximilian Schell is captivating,although do you agree Dlanor that the ending is rather bizarre.Why does Coburn allow Schell to live ?
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Johny_Exhale on August 02, 2005, 03:59:12 AM
Alfredo Garcia

that film has balls you wouldnt beleive, it would make such a great spaghetti western
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: The Smoker on August 02, 2005, 07:26:29 AM
Make that 2 votes for Cross of Iron - the battle of wills between James Coburn and Maximilian Schell is captivating,although do you agree Dlanor that the ending is rather bizarre.Why does Coburn allow Schell to live ?

The rather manic 'laughin' ending supposidly was to do with running out of film and funding. On a certain day Peckinpah was told to stop filming. The last act was filmed as crew and equipment was being taken away.

Put me down for Cross Of Iron.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: jerkface on August 02, 2005, 08:25:46 AM
Make that 2 votes for Cross of Iron - the battle of wills between James Coburn and Maximilian Schell is captivating,although do you agree Dlanor that the ending is rather bizarre.Why does Coburn allow Schell to live ?

Cross Of Iron does have a somewhat anti-climactic ending. This is probably due to the low-budget nature of the production. For instance, Peckinpah was promised thirty tanks, but was only given three. Towards the end of shooting the producers told Peckinpah to pack it in, that it was finished. They had basically ran out of money. Naturally, Peckinpah freaked out and started to weep. Coburn then went and told the producers something to the effect of "fuck off, we're going to shoot it the way we want to." He consoled Sam to get it together, and they shot the end sequence in one day.

Personally, I think the end makes sense. Throughout the film, Steiner (Coburn) makes a point of showing Stransky how much of a coward he is. For instance, the scene where Stransky orders him to execute a Russian boy prisoner. Steiner hands him a pistol and tells him to do it. One of Steiner's men intervenes and says that he'll take care of it, and ushers the boy away. Stransky thinks the boy will be executed, but he is eventually set free only to be killed by his own people.

My point is, Steiner was willing to let Stransky murder the boy just to prove a point to him. At the end he could've killed Stransky, but instead he leads him into battle. He wants Stransky to experience the things that he orders others to do for him, thus exposing his own hypocrisy and cowardice.

If I MUST vote for a favorite Peckinpah film, then I pick The Wild Bunch. That's really a tough one though, I like all of them and love most of them. I decline to comment on Convoy unless pressed.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: jerkface on August 02, 2005, 08:28:16 AM
The rather manic 'laughin' ending supposidly was to do with running out of film and funding. On a certain day Peckinpah was told to stop filming. The last act was filmed as crew and equipment was being taken away.

Put me down for Cross Of Iron.

You could take it from this guy, or my long-winded explanation.

And can I vote for more than one? This is cruel.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Dlanor on August 02, 2005, 11:49:09 AM
Make that 2 votes for Cross of Iron - the battle of wills between James Coburn and Maximilian Schell is captivating,although do you agree Dlanor that the ending is rather bizarre.Why does Coburn allow Schell to live ?

Because he wants to show him how to win an Iron cross, and that's worth than death, that what we understood in all the movie. And The smoker made a very good explanation.
 Concerning the end, I don't think it was bad. For me the end is when the "ticket for Biarritz man"is killed by Steiner, and the climax is when Steiner men are killed. Even if there is one or two events after that, the film is finished.
 Not only the film shows the violence but also its absurdity because Steiner men are killed by their own side. As the Russian boy. And he let us think the boy is saved only to kill him after the absurdest way. Traumatizing.
 It doesn't make things pretty: As for Steiner's men, we fear for such a misunderstanding to happen, but we were so used to Hollywood movie were all was pretty, we couldn't believe it would happen. I don't think today they could make a film like that, with a boy killed, the rapt temptative, and a US war movie with Germans and not American as main charcaters. Today everything is polliticaly correct, they don't want to speak about these things but about comics superheroes.
The slow down and the blood wich wasn't red but sort of purple: this was the more disgusting, purple, blood, purple sky.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Juan Miranda on August 02, 2005, 01:24:47 PM
but why is it undoubtedly the best peckinpah among most?
THE WILD BUNCH is far and away the best film Peckinpah ever made for the following reasons:

He had a brilliant and coherent script.

He was sober and the studio left him alone during the shooting.

He had the best cast he would ever have, and Holden gives a career best performance.

He was experimenting for the first time, with a clear idea of how he was going to combine multi speed cinematography with multi camera set ups, because he now knew how he could edit the material. This subsequent, unique style would be his lasting signature.

He has one of his best musical scores (I think only STRAW DOGS comes close, in any of his other films).

Namely, it was a perfect combination of talents in front of and behind the camera, and he had never had it so good before or after.

All the other films are flawed and compromised. CROSS OF IRON because the production stalled due to lack of money, and every other film because Sam was himself out of controle. PAT GARRETT AND BILLY THE KID has some fine sequences, but as a whole film it never works due partly to Kris Kristofferson, who is appaling in this, and is incapable of supporting a feature film.

Michael Cimino should have watched this before casting him in HEAVEN'S GATE. Kristofferson in good in the British horror film THE SAILOR WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH THE SEA, as his personality is used well (he is no actor) and he is only a supporting character and not asked to carry the thing.

Another fault in PAT GARRETT in the casting and scoring departments is Bob Dylan. In terms of acting, he makes Kristofferson look like Lawrence Olivier in compareson. I've seen more animated performances from well built tables, and what the hell were they thinking with that scene where he reads the lables on bean cans?

I think even drug and drink addled Peckinpah also realised the extreme limitations of Dylan's performance in post production, as his appearence seems cut down to a minimum.

I can not abide the man's music either, and his whining, constipated voice is something I have to block out whenever I watch this movie, although taste in music is a very personal thing, and this can't really be an objective opinion.

Its major fault though is its utter lack of narrative drive, unlike THE WILD BUNCH. It meaders from one would be set piece to another, to little point. And it still feels as though huge chunks are missing.

On a final, subjective note, I can not abide watching chickens have their heads blown off in slow motion in the name of art. People have gone crazy over films like CANNIBAL HOLOCAUST becuase animals are killed in them, but I find Pekinpah's use of them here utterly exploitative. I'm probabaly being a hypocrite, as I'll gladly eat the critters (my Thai red chicken curry is legendary). I just don't to watch that.

I truly believe that THE WILD BUNCH is one of those films you can never say you have "seen" unless you have watched it at a cinema. During the fight sequences, the point of action often cuts from the extreme left of frame to extreme right of frame to extreme left of frame and back again. On a big screen, with a 'scope format this makes these sequences even more powerful and viscreal, and is an effect utterly lost on television.

Just to go back to CROSS OF IRON, yes, its a great war film, but the most traumatic and brutal (fictional feature) war film ever made was the Soviet movie COME AND SEE. Made by Elim Klimov, it makes all other war pictures look like Disney films.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Dlanor on August 02, 2005, 02:35:44 PM
Cross of Iron is the only Peckinpah film I have seen I think...So it's difficult for me to place it in his whole work. :-\
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Juan Miranda on August 02, 2005, 04:39:52 PM
Just to add. After reading and writing about PAT GARRETT AND BILLY THE KID, I just watched it again. It has one sequence in it where Peckinpah almost seems to be trying to shoot a Leone like homage.

The bit where Billy surrenders to Pat at a small bunkhouse is utterly Leone like in its pacing, placing of actors within the frame, use of zooms and angles, right down to the way the actors perform, with big gestures and exaggerated grins all round.

The only thing spoiling it is Dylan's gawdawful music.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: grandpa_chum on August 02, 2005, 05:11:09 PM

first of all about bob dylan, I love the pg+btk music, and i actually didn't mind his performance, again it wasn't that big... also not many have had the oppurtunity to see the director's cut, which is much much different than the long seen version, except on full screen vhs... i happen to have a widescreen bootleg directors cut dvd made from some laserdisc, so i have to admit i've seen a different version than most... actually, when i first saw the cut up version on television(which was before I bought the widescreen directors cut), I HATED IT, the version I love has a whole different feel to it, and a whole different beginning and ending to boot, people who have seen the directors cut vhs know what i'm talking about... so if you've seen anything but the director's cut that is now on vhs and you love peckinpah, i urge you to see it again, the way peckinpah wanted it, not the way he sued to get his name taken out of the credits.

THE WILD BUNCH is far and away the best film Peckinpah ever made for the following reasons:

He had a brilliant and coherent script.

He was sober and the studio left him alone during the shooting.


about the quote, alfredo garcia, which is better than wild bunch in my opinion, was, according to peckinpahhimself, the only film he had complete freedom of from beginning to end, and personally i like him less when he's sober, probably why i love pat garret and btk so much.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Juan Miranda on August 02, 2005, 05:31:19 PM
I have only ever seen Peckinpah's directors cut of PAT GARRETT, and never any butchered version.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: grandpa_chum on August 02, 2005, 06:07:36 PM
I have only ever seen Peckinpah's directors cut of PAT GARRETT, and never any butchered version.

and you don't love it? or just don't think it's as good as wild bunch?

personally it rivals ouatitw as my favorite western.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Juan Miranda on August 02, 2005, 06:32:14 PM
I do love it, despite of Bob Dylan!  ; :)

I just don't think its as magnificent as THE WILD BUNCH.

As for Sam being drunk, drugged or sober, at least when he was reasonably with it, he could judge what his actors and performers were doing, and if they were doing it well.

My main gripe with PAT GARRETT is he seems to have lost sight of what his newbies, Kristofferson and Dylan were up to. All the old guys (and gals) give all they can (Coburn is superb and was Slim Pickens ever better??!) because they know what they are capable of. But Kristofferson and Dylan?

Next time you watch this film, tell me if I'm wrong. At the end of almost every scene he's in Kris smiles the same "Aw shucks" grin and Bob never looks anybody in the eye, with the same downcast twitch. Its as though they think this is great acting, and boozed up Sam lets the sonovabitches off with this lazy bull. Its almost the same difference as the gang Robert Ryan is stuck with chasing the "Men" in the Holden's Wild Bunch, except in this case Ryan/Peckinpah doesn't realise what he's up against.

Most tellingly, in the one or two sequences Kris and Bob are together, neither guy dares look each other in the eye. This seems like some kind of outside pop star ego crap which has nothing to do with the characters, and just seems lazy. If you are not in awe of these pop stars persona's, they just seem utterly bland, or in Dylan's case, annoying.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: grandpa_chum on August 03, 2005, 12:18:51 AM
I see what you mean, and i agree... it just doesn't bother me as much, the rest of the cast well makes up for it, elam, coburn, pickens, jurado, and armstrong... and if you think the stuff between dylan and kristofferson is bad, just be glad james taylor didn't end up playing billy as was originally intended.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Juan Miranda on August 03, 2005, 04:32:48 AM
James Taylor! :'(

That reminds me of pop stars in the movies in general. They nearly always stink a picture up.

As I said before, Kristofferson is actually quite good in THE SAILOR WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH THE SEA, as the director knows how to use him, limitations and all. He even contributes a nice bit of (vocalless) romatic music for the film. Beyond that, his best ever role was in TAXI DRIVER, where he appears as a picture on an album cover.

David Lynch cast David Bowie in a small role in TWIN PEAKS: FIRE WALK WITH ME, and was even thinking of casting him in his next project, which would end up as LOST HIGHWAY. However, Bowie was so awful Lynch cut down his appearence to a bare minimum and deleted all his dialogue. He has not appeared in another Lynch film since.

Bowie is a serial offender when it comes to dreadful acting. I think he fooled too many into thinking he could act by his good inpersonation of himself in THE MAN WHO FELL TO EARTH. Beyond that he has churned out a steady and thankfully deminishing series of plank like, school play style guff.

This is partly Nic Roeg's fault, who directed him so well in THE MAN WHO FELL TO EARTH. He has a theory about "actors" and "performers", where people like Bowie or Mick Jagger, since they are amatures "perform" rather than "act", and as a film maker you have to be aware of their strengths and limitations. He handles this brilliantly in BAD TIMING, where Art Garfunkle (of all people!) gives a superb performance as a nasty sexual obsessive.

Another pop star who whent through an "I can act, me" period was Sting, but I can't even bare to think about that. My all time number one stinkeroo pop abonination on screen of all time though, goes to Harry Nilsson, in Ringo Starr's vanity project SON OF DRACULA. Words fail to express how inert he is in this. He is so whoful he even manages to beat Ringo himself into second place for pop star ego atrocity in the name of cinema. Who ever told Ringo he was "the funny one" should be forced to watch this trash for an eternity.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Film-Junkie Zach on August 03, 2005, 08:24:28 AM
I'm a huge fan of THE WILD BUNCH and BRING ME THE HEAD OF ALFREDO GARCIA. I have seen Straw Dogs which is good. Just not an action packed film like WB.

I need to see Ride The High Country, The Getaway, Junior Bonner, Ballad Of Cable Hogue, Cross Of Iron, The Killer Elite, The Osterman Weekend, Convoy, Major Dundee and Pat Garrett and Billy The Kid
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Dlanor on August 03, 2005, 09:15:36 AM
Ah, yes I have seen the convoy !;D
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Juan Miranda on August 03, 2005, 10:15:43 AM
After my moan about pop singers trying to act, I feel its only fair to balance the argument by mentioning Clint Eastwood's atrocious attempt at "singing" in PAINT YOUR WAGON.

Its also fair to say that at least one pop singer made a great actor. Frank Sinatra gave some amazing dramatic performances in SUDDENLY, THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN ARM, FROM HERE TO ETERNITY, SOME CAME RUNNING and, especially, THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Groggy on August 04, 2005, 06:57:40 AM
I see what you mean, and i agree... it just doesn't bother me as much, the rest of the cast well makes up for it, elam, coburn, pickens, jurado, and armstrong... and if you think the stuff between dylan and kristofferson is bad, just be glad james taylor didn't end up playing billy as was originally intended.

Peckinpah's #1 choice for Billy the Kid was. . .

Bo Hopkins.

That would've been frickin' AWESOME if you ask me, especially after seeing him as Crazy Lee in "The Wild Bunch".  Better than Kristofferson, at any rate.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Larzz on August 06, 2005, 02:43:08 PM
I'm a huge fan of THE WILD BUNCH and BRING ME THE HEAD OF ALFREDO GARCIA. I have seen Straw Dogs which is good. Just not an action packed film like WB.

I need to see Ride The High Country, The Getaway, Junior Bonner, Ballad Of Cable Hogue, Cross Of Iron, The Killer Elite, The Osterman Weekend, Convoy, Major Dundee and Pat Garrett and Billy The Kid
Great to see here al those Peckinpah enthusiastics. I'm a Peckinpah fan for over 25 years now from Holland. Got all his films on VHS and DVD.  So if you like: The Getaway, Junior Bonner, Cross Of Iron, Killer Elite, Convoy, Osterman Weekend and recently Major Dundee are all easy available on DVD right now. In early 2006 Warner Home Video will release a Peckinpah box set with 5 films:Wild Bunch (S.E.), Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid (S.E.), Ballad of Cable Hogue, Ride the High Country and The Getaway. Can't wait!
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Belkin on August 06, 2005, 02:50:59 PM
RIDE THE HIGH COUNTRY every time!
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Groggy on August 06, 2005, 03:29:01 PM
Well. . . it's interesting that the votes are well-spread out, and indeed that I got so many votes for this post . . . if I had remembered "Cross of Iron" I definitely would've put it on the main list, but whatever.  Things are working out alright anyway.

Good to see that "The Wild Bunch" is still out front though.  :P
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: KERMIT on August 07, 2005, 08:54:22 PM
as usual , i'm useless. i just love the hell outta of sam AND  sergio because they were men who made something w/ style and passion. i simply can't vote.

screw it, sam was great.  his rifleman t.v. series ?  a-1  ;)because nobody came close to exhibiting extreme violence w/out showing the consequences it brings.

the one movie sam made that would be his magnum opus, to me would be "THE WILD BUNCH".  but then again warren oats in "bring me the head" was so sam.
strawdogs drove me nuts. but, then again, there you go.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: jerkface on August 09, 2005, 06:02:29 AM
Some promising news about the long-awaited Peckinpah boxed set. No release date is set, but February/March of 2006 seems likely. The boxed set will contain: Ride The High Country, The Wild Bunch, The Ballad of Cable Hogue, The Getaway, and Pat Garrett & Billy The Kid. All with commentary by the usual gang of Peckinpah scholars (David Weddle, Garner Simmons, Paul Seydor, and Nick Redman). The Wild Bunch is getting the special edition treatment, including a new documentary by Nick Redman.

The boxed set will contain a new cut of Pat Garrett and Billy The Kid. For me, PG&BTK has always left me feeling conflicted. Both the original cut and the so-called director's cut have their own merits. Ah, I don't want to get into that now, it's complex. If you're interested, I highly suggest you check out Paul Seydor's book, Peckinpah: The Western Films. He has a great understanding of Peckinpah's work, and includes a great chapter on PG&BTK. It's a messy situation that seems like it's being rectified with this new cut.

And about that new cut. It's been supervised by Nick Redman and Paul Seydor. If you read Seydor's book, you'll know that's very good news. According to Nick Redman, on the commentary track they explain why the "director's cut" wasn't the director's cut at all. The new cut contains additional scenes, including a scene between Pat Garrett and his wife, the Ruthie Lee scene, an extended sequence with the prostitutes, and Bob Dylan's song has been reinstated into Slim Pickens very memorable death scene.

Very good news indeed. I'm wondering if it's a different cut of The Getaway. Supposedly they were working on a director's cut. This would reinstate the original score by Jerry Fielding as opposed to the Quincy Jones score. I think there's more Al Lettierri too, which is always good. Well, the speculation and rumors will be flying until we've got it in our hot little hands. Just thought I'd share what's been heard through the grape vine.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: grandpa_chum on August 09, 2005, 12:12:49 PM
i personally don't buy that the directors cut is not the actual directors cut, maybe the scenes with pat's wife, but not the dylan song on the pickens death, that was added much after peckinpah's final cut as far as i've read.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: jerkface on August 09, 2005, 01:16:21 PM
i personally don't buy that the directors cut is not the actual directors cut, maybe the scenes with pat's wife, but not the dylan song on the pickens death, that was added much after peckinpah's final cut as far as i've read.

It's unclear to me who put the Dylan song in the scene, but I think it's more effective in the original cut. Peckinpah never had final cut and basically dropped the ball in post-production of the film. The "director's cut" is more coherent than the original, and is the better film overall. But still, there are some scenes that play out better in the original. To me at least, and that's why I find the film to be a bit of a mixed bag. Though the director's cut is more faithful to Peckinpah's vision, it betrays his craft. It plays like a rough cut, which is what it was. I'm thinking that this new cut will be a big improvement. You should check out Paul Seydor's book if you haven't. The PG&BTK chapter is pretty interesting.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: HEX on September 21, 2005, 07:04:28 PM
STRAW DOGS
HANDS DOWN.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: dave jenkins on March 05, 2006, 11:33:28 PM
The Savant has a review up for the new R1 DVD of Cross of Iron (which is not yet out):
http://dvdtalk.com/dvdsavant/s1894iron.html

I've been happy with my Japanese disc, but I will probably have to get this new one now that I know it contains a Stephen Prince commentary (Prince's commentary on Criterion's Straw Dogs disc was excellent). Like the Savant says, Prince does commentary on films he actually believes in. Makes a change from the Peckinpah Posse, don't it?
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Leone Admirer on March 06, 2006, 04:36:00 AM
The Wild Bunch

Without a doubt.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: cigar joe on March 06, 2006, 06:06:41 AM
Me I think now that I've seen the whole thing BMTHOAG is his best imo.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Banjo on March 06, 2006, 06:09:50 AM
The Savant has a review up for the new R1 DVD of Cross of Iron (which is not yet out):
http://dvdtalk.com/dvdsavant/s1894iron.html

I've been happy with my Japanese disc, but I will probably have to get this new one now that I know it contains a Stephen Prince commentary (Prince's commentary on Criterion's Straw Dogs disc was excellent). Like the Savant says, Prince does commentary on films he actually believes in. Makes a change from the Peckinpah Posse, don't it?
This DVD sounds interesting and in terms of running time i'm not sure how the132 minutes compares to the version(allowing for the PAL speedup) usually shown on British TV every now again?
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: cigar joe on March 06, 2006, 06:19:19 AM
I'll probably pick up Cross of Iron for sure, and I do have BOCH comming in the mail.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: dave jenkins on March 07, 2006, 09:41:49 PM
While we await CoI, it may be helpful to quickly survey what are probably the best DVD versions of the films currently available. I am going to limit my list to the first 10, as, beside CoI, I'm not much interested in the final 4.

The Deadly Companions is out on a beautiful-looking DVD from Japan with the correct aspect ratio (enhanced for 16x9).

Ride the High Country is part of the recent R1 Peckinpah box set. Correct aspect ratio, 16x9 enhancement, commentary, extras.

The extended edtion of Major Dundee was released last year in R1, with two separate scores, correct aspect ratio, 16x9 enhancement, commentary, extras.

The Wild Bunch is part of the recent R1 Peckinpah box set. Correct aspect ratio, 16x9 enhancement, commentary. A second disc contains documentary extras.

The Criterion Collection's SE of Straw Dogs must be seen to be believed. Amazing image. Correct aspect ratio, 16x9 enhancement, commentary. A second disc includes documentary extras, essential for fans of Peckinpah.

The Ballad of Cable Hogue is part of the recent R1 Peckinpah box set. Correct aspect ratio, 16x9 enhancement, commentary, extras.

The Getaway is part of the Essentinal Steve McQueen box set. Correct aspect ratio, 16x9 enhancement, commentary, extras.

Junior Bonner is available from MGM and included in the Steve McQueen Collection box set. Correct aspect ratio, commentary, extras.

Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid is part of the recent R1 Peckinpah box set. Correct aspect ratio, 16x9 enhancement, commentary, extras. Two versions of the film are included: the 1988 Turner Director's Cut and the 2005 cut.

Bring Me the Head of Alfreda Garcia is available from MGM with the correct aspect ratio, 16x9 enhancement, and commentary. The Japanese SE adds a Japanese language dub, a soundtrack CD, a booklet (in Japanese), a digest replica of the original Japanese film program, replica of the original Japanese advertising handbills, all encased in a handsome digi-pack.



Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Leone Admirer on March 08, 2006, 05:11:58 AM
Just to say, I love what Warners have done with the recent Peckinpah boxset but I wish they had fixed the sound for the Turner preview version of Garrett. Reading through different forums there seems to be a lot of people who agree with me. It's not enough to put you off watching the version but it would have been nice that's all.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: boardwalk_angel on March 10, 2006, 08:36:02 PM
Just saw "Ballad Of Cable Hogue"...for the first time...& I'm basking in its glow.  8)
Interesting...that this is Peckinpah's favorite. Lovely, lyrical & poetic.
The entire cast..I mean all of them...were superb. And Jason Robards.....ahhhhhhh.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: cigar joe on March 11, 2006, 01:47:05 PM
I just saw "Ballad of Cable Hogue"  today for the first time all the way through, (just caught bits and pieces before) I agree its a nice little tragic Wild West, love story, of the fling between a determined man building a dream in the desert and a hooker going off to San Francisco follow her dream, nice poetic touches a great cast of character actors well used, beautiful desert sequences gorgeous cinematogaphy, excellent film. The score for a sung one is good, and though it has a duet by Stella and Jason, it sort of half assed works not taking you out of the picture, another example of a trend in the seventies.

Both Stella Stevens and Jason Robards shine.

Sam Peckinpah Lite!

I can see why Sam had an unhappy career, this film should have made money it was embracing the American Dream, wasn't very bloody, had a love interest story that actually appeals to men. And it was a quasi-comedy, not slapstick but more situational comedy. WTF with the general public at the time? Was it not promoted correctly?

Anyway I found a book "Sam Peckinpah, The Western Films" that is an in depth study of his westerns copyright 1980, I'll report back my findings.   

I'd rank what I've seen now this way:

BMTHOAG
WB
BoCH
RTHC
TW
SD
PG&BTK
MD
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: cigar joe on March 13, 2006, 06:12:21 AM
From "Peckinpah, The Western Films" by Paul Seydor.


For the demise of "The Ballad of Cable Hogue" lay the blame squarely on Warner Brothers. They were batteling with Peckinpah over the cuts in "The Wild Bunch", first they withdrew all support for TWB in December for the Academy Awards screenings. Next the studios showed an unfinnished cut of TBoCH to the first round of reviewers without mentioning the version shown was not complete. After the finnish of the release print the studio did almost nothing to promote it. Within a month of its release it was difficult to remember wether there ahd ever been such a film.

footnote:

'
"The picture called for theaters near colleges" Peckinpah friend Max Evans wrote, "where it would open slowly and then let the inevitable word of mouth build it. (Sam Pekinpah The Master of Violence) What happend was this, to take just one region of the country as an example. In central Pennsylvania is a town called State College, the main campus of the  Pennsylvania Syate University where approximately 25,000 students are enrolled each year, the film never played in Stae College. It played, rather, in a small town about asn hour away called Hollidaysburg, with no publicity and consequently little attendance. Imagine this situation replicated around the country."
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Leone Admirer on March 13, 2006, 04:57:21 PM
Thank's for that Joe. I thought I read Warner's didn't like it. I very much enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: roberti on April 03, 2006, 11:08:33 AM
Sorry to get into this lately guys. My favorite is Bring me the head for its crazyness and because it is in margin of existence and usual way of thinking a scenario and shooting a movie as SERGIO LEONE USED TO BE.
 I like another one , not mentioned in this poll: The Getaway, which is my favorite Steve Mcqueen's movie.

http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=3132.msg30397#msg30397.

 
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: dave jenkins on February 10, 2007, 10:05:43 AM
Optimum has just released an R2 edition of Cross of Iron; although it appears to be the same transfer as the recent R1 release, they didn't license the Stephen Prince commentary (big mistake). Anyway, there is a good summary of the film and review of the disc at: http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=64046
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: The Firecracker on February 10, 2007, 01:18:24 PM
I saw the "Cross of Iron" dvd in NYC but decided not to buy it because of it's 40 dollar price tag. :(
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: cigar joe on February 10, 2007, 01:23:36 PM
Is this film full matte or widescreen the version I had (got it for $10) was a Hen's Tooth release and full matte.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: The Firecracker on February 10, 2007, 03:43:05 PM
Is this film full matte or widescreen the version I had (got it for $10) was a Hen's Tooth release and full matte.

Virgin had both versions, each the same amount of cash.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Tucumcari Bound on February 10, 2007, 10:32:39 PM
Wow, how can any film fanatic not love Sam Peckinpah. I will go out on a limb and say he's the most underrated director ever. I think his films are bloody brilliant, and he surely doesn't get the credit he so rightfully deserves. I'm shocked to find that some Sergio Leone fans wouldn't like his films. This surprises me totally. I think Sam has directed many classics, The Wild Bunch probably being my favorite, as I think this is his true masterpiece. You can then go on and on from Bring Me the Head of Alredo Garcia, Ride The High Country, Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid, Straw Dogs, The Getaway, The Ballad of Cable Hogue, Cross of Iron, and Junior Bonner. I think he shows brilliance in his direction in all of these films. Many of these are classics, and if you haven't indulged in Sam Peckinpah's films as of yet, I encourage you to do so. I'm sure you won't be upset you did!
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: The Firecracker on February 10, 2007, 10:37:53 PM
Wow, how can any film fanatic not love Sam Peckinpah.


A lot of his films are overblown and can do with some trimming.

The closest he got for a "perfect picture" title was "Straw Dogs"...but he screws himself over in the climax.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Tucumcari Bound on February 11, 2007, 01:11:54 AM

A lot of his films are overblown and can do with some trimming.

The closest he got for a "perfect picture" title was "Straw Dogs"...but he screws himself over in the climax.

What didn't you like about the climax of Straw Dogs Firecracker?
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: The Firecracker on February 11, 2007, 01:17:26 AM
What didn't you like about the climax of Straw Dogs Firecracker?


It has a lot to do with the time I was born.

When I saw it I kept thinking of the climax to "Home Alone".
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Banjo on February 11, 2007, 06:45:28 AM
The closest he got for a "perfect picture" title was "Straw Dogs"...but he screws himself over in the climax.
Yes its the only one that doesn't seem to drag particularly and i liked the ending.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Leone Admirer on February 11, 2007, 06:46:41 AM
Peckinpah, drag an oxymoron if ever there was one.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Banjo on February 11, 2007, 06:56:27 AM
Wow, how can any film fanatic not love Sam Peckinpah. I will go out on a limb and say he's the most underrated director ever. I think his films are bloody brilliant, and he surely doesn't get the credit he so rightfully deserves.
Extremely over-rated(i could list dozens of  Italian western directors that never get a sniff on UK television and most probably the USA too)more like and  shockingly in the UK we see a helluva lot more Peckinpah films(and documentarys) on television than we do Leones.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Leone Admirer on February 11, 2007, 07:01:05 AM
I know you know I disagree with you about Peckinpah banjo (and you are wrong  ;) ) but I think Peckinpah's films are not the whole story when it comes to the Peckinpah myth and popularity, you have his troubled productions, his personality, the people around him and it adds to the great mythos that is the Peckinpah story.

I remember Christopher Lee once talking about the Wicker Man saying that if the film had come out in the 70's free from manipulation it would have been a modest sucess and most likely forgotten today. It was the story behind it that has given it this mythical cult appeal.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Banjo on February 11, 2007, 07:24:05 AM
I dunno,only last week on ITV4 there was a Peckinpah documentary accompanying Wild Bunch plus i also remember alot being said about him on a "making of Straw Dogs" docu on Channel 4.When i used to regularly buy monthy music/film magazines he always got good coverage in reviews/articles etc.An interesting figure yes but i know an awful lot more about him than several household name directors from all film genres.For example i didn't know anything about the British director Peter Collinson (another rougeish figure if i ever saw one)until i picked up the Italian Job dvd and now i'm intrigued to search out his other stuff-but i doubt there'll ever be a documentary about Collinson on tv.
    I've always loved Wicker Man and to a large extent understood its cult appeal (mainly to do i guess with its trendy pagan subject matter and hauntingly brilliant folk soundrack)several years before becoming aware of its troublesome history
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Tucumcari Bound on February 11, 2007, 09:21:26 AM
What I've found about Peckinpah with people is that you either love him or hate him. There is no gray area, it's just black and white. I'm kind of shocked by that. I love his work for one, and I'm always trying to turn people on to him, and of course the man, Sergio!
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Groggy on February 11, 2007, 03:29:20 PM
I don't necessarily love Peckinpah - I think, based on the few films of his that I've seen, that he was a schizophrenic genius.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Jon1 on February 11, 2007, 08:03:14 PM
I've only seen Wild Bunch and Straw Dogs.  Liked Wild Bunch a lot more.  Would love to watch Straw Dogs with a feminist friend of mine and watch her reactions, however.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: dave jenkins on February 12, 2007, 09:25:49 AM

It has a lot to do with the time I was born.

When I saw it I kept thinking of the climax to "Home Alone".
That pretty much says it all, really. The film goes wrong the moment the heavies kill the law enforcement officer; what the hell were they thinking? Oh, right, they weren't thinking at all, because they were puppets in the director's hand. And all the action inside the house at the end screams Thriller Movie Climax. Sam saves the worst for last, though, with the concluding exchange between Warner and Hoffman. Absolute crap.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: The Firecracker on February 12, 2007, 09:32:22 AM
The film goes wrong the moment the heavies kill the law enforcement officer; what the hell were they thinking? Oh, right, they weren't thinking at all, because they were puppets in the director's hand.


Well that was the doing of one of the gang members and not the whole gang. And that one hooligan was totally pissed as a coot and pulled the trigger by accident. When the cop is blown away the gang stands around in shock realizing "this is it, theres no turning back now". Similar to the "battle of bloody porch" in TWB.

The murder of the cop wasn't done intentionally.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: dave jenkins on February 12, 2007, 09:34:43 AM
What I've found about Peckinpah with people is that you either love him or hate him. There is no gray area, it's just black and white.
Colour me grey, amigo. I like The Deadly Companions, Major Dundee, The Wild Bunch, the first half of The Getaway, Alfredo Garcia, and Cross of Iron; I hate Ride the High Country, Straw Dogs, the second half of The Getaway, and the Osterman Weekend. I'm profoundly indifferent to Cable Hogue, Junior Bonner, and PG & BtK. I've never seen Convoy and don't intend to. In short, I find Peckinpah's work variable.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: The Firecracker on February 12, 2007, 09:38:50 AM
Anybody up for Peckinpah's "The Killer Elite"?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073240/

 ;D
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: dave jenkins on February 12, 2007, 09:42:07 AM

Well that was the doing of one of the gang members and not the whole gang. And that one hooligan was totally pissed as a coot and pulled the trigger by accident. When the cop is blown away the gang stands around in shock realizing "this is it, theres no turning back now". Similar to the "battle of bloody porch" in TWB.

The murder of the cop wasn't done intentionally.
Good point. I guess my real problem is with what the gang decides to do next. They can turn back at that point and cop to a manslaughter charge, but decide instead to throw there lives off a cliff. Even if they are successful in killing this guy they don't like much, what are they going to do after that? There won't be any consequences for them after the event? This apparently doesn't trouble them as they are just typical unthinking movie villains.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: The Firecracker on February 12, 2007, 09:50:39 AM
Good point. I guess my real problem is with what the gang decides to do next. They can turn back at that point and cop to a manslaughter charge, but decide instead to throw there lives off a cliff.


They could do that, but their out for blood. Their drunk, their angry and their fueled by hatred.
They figure their fucked any which way. If they turn themselves in, they go to jail. If they extract vengeance on the dimwit that killed the girl they still go to jail but at least they go knowing he's dead.

If you knew you would be dead tomorrow would you just stand there waiting for it to happen?

I'm almost sure you would take care of whatever it is you need to take care of before death comes a knockin.


I don't have a problem with the gang's motive. I just have a problem with the execution of Hoffman's booby trapped household.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: The Firecracker on February 12, 2007, 09:59:19 AM
Wasn't this Julian Lennon music video the last thing Peckinpah direct?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL6Uo8DAZKg
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Tim on February 12, 2007, 07:03:42 PM
Quote
Anybody up for Peckinpah's "The Killer Elite"?

  I've never seen TKE, but I usually give the benefit of the doubt to Peckinpah movies.  And a movie with James Caan and Robert Duvall, along with Bo Hopkins and Gig Young, deserves a watch in my book.  I did find a pretty cool trailer for The Killer Elite at youtube. 

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6iZDN23x5Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6iZDN23x5Y)

  Give the video a second, it's gray for about 4 seconds before the trailer actually starts.

  And for Straw Dogs, I thought the best part of that final house battle was when Dustin Hoffman puts the bagpipe music on.  That scene goes from creepy to surreal reeeeeeeeeeeeeal quick with the music added.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Tucumcari Bound on February 12, 2007, 09:05:17 PM
I still haven't seen The Killer Elite myself and I'm a huge Peckinpah fan. I gotta pick it up, I mean look at the actors in it. It can't be that bad. Anyway, my favorite Peckinpah film is The Wild Bunch. I mean the movie is downright masterful. My follow up is Bring the Head of Alredo Garcia. This movie is an underrated masterpiece in my opinion.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Tucumcari Bound on February 12, 2007, 10:32:42 PM
...and another thing, I just watched that trailer, it is awesome. I gotta see this.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Banjo on February 13, 2007, 01:26:18 AM
I've never seen Convoy and don't intend to. In short, I find Peckinpah's work variable.
Well at least there isn't a dull moment in Convoy plus the musics kinda fun ;D
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: dave jenkins on February 13, 2007, 04:31:06 PM

They could do that, but their out for blood. Their drunk, their angry and their fueled by hatred.
They figure their fucked any which way. If they turn themselves in, they go to jail. If they extract vengeance on the dimwit that killed the girl they still go to jail but at least they go knowing he's dead.

If you knew you would be dead tomorrow would you just stand there waiting for it to happen?

I'm almost sure you would take care of whatever it is you need to take care of before death comes a knockin.
You're arguing that they all have identical thoughts, which means they're movie zombies. I could see the guy who shot the cop thinking the way you suggest, but everybody else? If you aren't the one who pulled the trigger, you've got a lot of options, including 1) running away; and 2) dropping dime on the others for a plea deal.

No, motivations are a problem for this film. Another one comes after Susan George is raped. I can believe she might not tell her husband about it (if she blames him for it anyway), but why would she just hang around? She would be in a place full of men she absolutely hates and fears. She would have split!

If I were in on the story conferences on this one I think I might have argued that the wife would stay around to exact a measure of revenge. She would have manipulated the situation so that hubby would have to bump off her rapist, then maybe she could take care of her husband herself. Something like that.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: The Firecracker on February 13, 2007, 07:03:22 PM
You're arguing that they all have identical thoughts, which means they're movie zombies. I could see the guy who shot the cop thinking the way you suggest, but everybody else? If you aren't the one who pulled the trigger, you've got a lot of options, including 1) running away; and 2) dropping dime on the others for a plea deal.

No, motivations are a problem for this film. Another one comes after Susan George is raped. I can believe she might not tell her husband about it (if she blames him for it anyway), but why would she just hang around? She would be in a place full of men she absolutely hates and fears. She would have split!




Good point. I jumped the gun a bit there in thinking they would all be in the same situation as the hooligan who pulled the trigger. Your right. No excuse. However they still are drunk and want to get this guy that Hoffman is hiding. I tend to think that's motivation enough.

Why wouldn't Susan George split? Because her husband was determined to stay there. Where he lives, she lives. And women are rather complicated (okay a weak excuse).
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Jon1 on February 13, 2007, 07:09:33 PM
I hope I'm not going to get attacked as over the top PC.  But Straw Dogs felt very sexist to me.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: The Firecracker on February 13, 2007, 07:13:56 PM
I hope I'm not going to get attacked as over the top PC.  But Straw Dogs felt very sexist to me.


I would say most (if not all) of his films were. Peckinpah didn't think too highly of women.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Jon1 on February 13, 2007, 07:24:53 PM
Well I don't remember it being as overt in Wild Bunch.  The whole plot of women getting repeatedly rapes, needs her husband to come to the rescue....I don't know.  Didn't like the movie for some reason, can't describe it.  The rape scenes were pretty painful to watch.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Tim on February 13, 2007, 07:54:28 PM
Quote
Well I don't remember it being as overt in Wild Bunch.  The whole plot of women getting repeatedly rapes, needs her husband to come to the rescue....I don't know.  Didn't like the movie for some reason, can't describe it.  The rape scenes were pretty painful to watch.

  There are a couple things you could say about women in The Wild Bunch.  I can't think of any woman in the movie who is not a Judas or a prostitute.  The biggest one that comes to mind is Angel's woman who leaves him, hooks up with Mapache and his group, and then is shot by Angel.  But you're right, Jon, its not as in-your-face as Straw Dogs.  And Firecracker's right too, Peckinpah movies rarely showed women in a positive light.  Think Ali McGraw in The Getaway and how McQueen just pops Sally Struthers in the face.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Tucumcari Bound on February 15, 2007, 08:16:56 PM
Angels old woman deserved what she got. She could see on Angel's face how he felt about her and she goes and hooks up with Mapache right in front of him! That wasn't right at all, how can you blame him going nuts?!
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: dave jenkins on February 16, 2007, 08:18:07 AM
I feel sorry for your future ex's. ;D
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Tucumcari Bound on February 16, 2007, 09:02:14 AM
I feel sorry for your future ex's. ;D

HAHAHAHAA I didn't mean it like that dave jenkins. lol. I would never treat a woman like Angel did in The Wild Bunch. I was just saying, I don't think it's right what she did, that's all. I was making a point. hahahaa I hope you don't think I would do such a thing?!? Your post was hilarious.  ;D
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: CISCO on February 17, 2007, 09:03:22 AM
 

They could do that, but their out for blood. Their drunk, their angry and their fueled by hatred.
They figure their fucked any which way. If they turn themselves in, they go to jail. If they extract vengeance on the dimwit that killed the girl they still go to jail but at least they go knowing he's dead.

If you knew you would be dead tomorrow would you just stand there waiting for it to happen?

I'm almost sure you would take care of whatever it is you need to take care of before death comes a knockin.


I don't have a problem with the gang's motive. I just have a problem with the execution of Hoffman's booby trapped household.

"sometimes things lias happen ln bidness"- frank
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: mike siegel on March 02, 2007, 06:34:04 AM
For those of you who appreciate Peckinpah:

Right now I'm producing the German 2-Disc SE DVD
for STRAW DOGS. As in the UK it was banned over here for 24 years.
We fought and won...
The Edition will be worthwhile for aficionados outside of Germany too:
There's my new documentary PASSION & POETRY - SAM PECKINPAH's STRAW DOGS (approx 40 minutes),
various short featurettes, the usual supects like Trailers, TV-Spots, Radio Spots, the Super-8 version of the film...
The Booklet and Audio-Commentary will be in German, everything else in English.

back to work..
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Leone Admirer on March 02, 2007, 07:29:06 AM
Sounds very interesting and must be great to work on a DVD release on one of Sam's films. Please keep us posted.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Tim on March 02, 2007, 01:09:00 PM
Quote
It's been banned?  Jesus christ.  Brits always try to seem so high an mighty because they're more progressive than us yankees.

  Well it is pretty controversial in terms of violence, especially the rape scene.  Maybe the ban has something to do with it appearing that Susan George is enjoying herself at first?  And it doesn't put the English people in the best light.  I don't know if that had anything to do with it, but it could be part of the decision to ban Straw Dogs.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: dave jenkins on March 02, 2007, 04:03:42 PM
For those of you who appreciate Peckinpah:

Right now I'm producing the German 2-Disc SE DVD
for STRAW DOGS. As in the UK it was banned over here for 24 years.
We fought and won...
The Edition will be worthwhile for aficionados outside of Germany too:
There's my new documentary PASSION & POETRY - SAM PECKINPAH's STRAW DOGS (approx 40 minutes),
various short featurettes, the usual supects like Trailers, TV-Spots, Radio Spots, the Super-8 version of the film...
The Booklet and Audio-Commentary will be in German, everything else in English.

back to work..
Wow, I don't envy you. Besting the Criterion edition is gonna be hard to do, but more power to ya.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: mike siegel on March 05, 2007, 07:12:06 AM
yes the rape scene was basically the reason. (And it was slightly cut in the initial US-release as well, so much for the Yanks..). But in the UK the film was, thanks to its content, always a problem for certain critics and board members.

The main problem here in Germany was that in the early 80's there wasn't a rating for HomeVideos. So everybody and his little brother could rent anything he wanted. To avoid that dilemma, certain titles were banned.

I don't compare our project here with Criterion. They had a bigger budget and could license very valuable stuff (as the ON LOCATION: DUSTIN HFFMAN doc, which I adore..). BUT we have a film maker at work here, so I'm producing new original stuff which no edition world-wide ever offered..
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: dave jenkins on March 06, 2007, 04:48:51 PM
That's interesting, but I'm more concerned with image quality. Criterion's picture is just stunning. Will yours be as good (or even better)?
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: mike siegel on March 07, 2007, 05:54:26 AM
It will be close. Not better, that's for sure. But I don't do this for the main feature quality but to feed the fans 'Bonus' appetite. Why else should anybody (outside of Germany that is) care for this release? And we don't have a budget for a 007 Ultimate Edition re-mastering job (which would ask for the negative too, which we obviousely don't have).

So we put the budget in a nice collector's edition I'm sure Peckinpah aficionados will enjoy. The documentary (approx. 40 min.) is twice as long as the one I did for MAJOR DUNDEE and those of you who have my book, I think got the fact that I rather include more (much more) than less :) ... (whereever possible). On DUNDEE I couldn't do much, because the studio wouldn't want galleries, additional featurettes etc. from me (after all it was only one DVD)...
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: mike siegel on March 24, 2007, 03:30:27 PM
here's something to look at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRvRqBaHdSg
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Leone Admirer on March 24, 2007, 03:37:41 PM
Thanks for posting that Mike. That looks excellent, looks like you got together an excellent list of interviewees and some fantastic archive Sam footage. I'd love to see it. Are you thinking of doing a theatrical distrib as well?
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: mike siegel on March 25, 2007, 08:58:21 AM
well, so far I did festivals and small art houses. Italy, England, Israel, Germany. In the US we found no interest!
Strange, with such an American content :), seems like contributions from ol' Europe aren't very welcome.

If you live in New Mexico, you could see it this summer.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Leone Admirer on March 25, 2007, 09:45:43 AM
Damn I missed the UK showings. Which theater was it?
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Sonny on March 25, 2007, 10:05:34 AM


i'm surprised Straw Dogs didn't get a higher vote onthe polls. I haven't seen it, but i haven't heard anything negative about it, on the contrary, i've heard of it being one of Peckinpah's best.  :-\

 Bring Me The Head... certainly got good votes, no surprise there  O0

Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Tim on March 25, 2007, 02:50:58 PM
Quote
here's something to look at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRvRqBaHdSg

  Thanks for posting that Mike!  Keep us posted on any updates, hopefully you can get it released in the US, good luck!
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Franco Ringo on April 07, 2007, 03:03:31 AM
Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid is extraordinary and its great to see Jack Elam in both a Peckinpah film and a Leone film.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Silenzio on April 22, 2007, 04:40:14 PM
Just found out that Bob Dylan's favorite Peckinpah film was Ride the High Country... but, I found that out on Wikipedia.  Might not be true, but it probably is.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Banjo on April 23, 2007, 03:32:10 PM
Just found out that Bob Dylan's favorite Peckinpah film was Ride the High Country... but, I found that out on Wikipedia.  Might not be true, but it probably is.
Zimmy's a wise old dude,and i too consider it much better than what followed.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Leone Admirer on April 23, 2007, 04:03:51 PM
Please give The Wild Bunch another shot Banjo, please. It's painful to hear you say you don't like it.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Banjo on April 24, 2007, 05:01:07 AM
Please give The Wild Bunch another shot Banjo, please. It's painful to hear you say you don't like it.
OK i don't like to see a grown man cry. :'(  O0

 
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Silenzio on April 24, 2007, 02:01:41 PM
Zimmy's a wise old dude,and i too consider it much better than what followed.

Ol' Rob Zimmerman....


Ride the High Country is an amazing flick, and my second fave Peckinpah, but honestly....




I like The Wild Bunch a little more.  >:D
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: dave jenkins on April 24, 2007, 03:54:07 PM
You guys should really watch The Deadly Companions sometime. Although I don't expect anyone to agree with me, I find it more interesting than Ride the High Country.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Jill on May 03, 2007, 11:12:23 AM
I voted Pat Garett, but I can't decide between this, the Wild Bunch and Alfredo Garcia. They are by me 100%.

The Wild Bunch is for me as great as OUATITW or Il Grande Silenzio. I love every minutes in the film. But the best is:
- Let's go.
- Why not?
And they're goin' and then KILL KILL KILL, like a Manowar song...  O0

Pat Garrett is an absolutely beutiful art-western. James Coburn should have won an Oscar fir this. And Kris is so lovely and he's not the idealized-romantic bandit. He's a killer, but he's cool. ("How's Jesus looking for you...")
All the supporting actors are great, and the movie has a wonderful athmosphere. And, of course, the music.

Alfredo Garcia is an absurd and morbid masterpiece. It's very, very Sam-ish.  ;)

But I like also Cable Hogue. Jason Robards is always excellent.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Tucumcari Bound on May 03, 2007, 11:43:25 AM
Great post Jill! O0
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Tuco the ugly on May 03, 2007, 01:27:47 PM

And Kris is so lovely and he's not the idealized-romantic bandit. He's a killer, but he's cool. ("How's Jesus looking for you...")



I've always thought that he vas really bad in the movie,don't get me wrong,the movie is excellent but Kris is out of place...
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Tuco the ugly on May 03, 2007, 01:40:12 PM
I'm gonna watch Straw Dogs now,what a coincidence.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: dave jenkins on May 03, 2007, 02:19:25 PM
btw, there's a new biography of Billy the Kid that looks pretty good: http://www.amazon.com/Billy-Kid-Endless-Michael-Wallis/dp/0393060683/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-1512335-1543158?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178226278&sr=1-1
Lots of books have been written on him, of course, but this one seems particularly interesting. Saw the author on a chat show and he sounded like he knew what he was talking about.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Leone Admirer on May 03, 2007, 02:28:22 PM
Thanks for the link Dave always looking for something to read on the Daily Commute.
Title: German STRAW DOGS SE
Post by: mike siegel on May 11, 2007, 01:20:07 AM
 Folks,
for those who are interested in new Peckinpah-stuff. The German SE DVD I produced
will be out in a couple of weeks.
here's what you get (in case nothing bad happens at the very last minute):


STRAW DOGS German 2-Disc SE

Disk 1
- Feature / uncut / 1:1,78
Audio German / English
Audio-Kommentar von Mike Siegel

Disk 2 Bonus Features
- Passion & Poetry - Sam Peckinpahs Straw Dogs
  Dokumentary by Mike Siegel, 38 min., Deutschland/UK/USA 2007
- Featurette Dan Melnick - Stories about Peckinpah 9 min.
- Featurette David Warner - Billing Story 3 min.
- Featurette Dan Melnick - Straw Dogs Cameramen 4 min.
- Featurette Dan Melnick - Dustin Hoffman’s Method 3 min.
- Featurette Impressionen vom Set 8 min.
- Original trailer USA 2 min.
- TV-Spots USA 10 sek./30 sek./60 sek.
- Radio-Spots USA 30 sek./60 sek.
- Trailer Passion & Poetry - The Ballad Of Sam Peckinpah 3 min.
- Super-8 version USA ca. 75 min
- Super-8 Trailer USA 2 min.

- 16-page Booklet with 60 rare photos und artwork Reproductions


except for the writing in the booklet (which is 80% of Photos anyway) and
the Commentary, everything is in english with optional German subtitles.
And of course it's Amazon.de  not  Amazon.com as I might have mentioned
earlier.
Mike
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: cigar joe on May 11, 2007, 04:21:08 AM
thanks mike
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: dave jenkins on May 11, 2007, 04:03:13 PM
Bit rate?
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: mike siegel on May 12, 2007, 12:47:57 AM
I don't know about these things...
But don't buy it because of the main feature - it can't be better than the CRITERION. Same quality I'd say.
The Bonus Disc & the whole package is the reason for it to have, isn't it..

(http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1612/7186524/13731420/251991061.jpg)
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: cigar joe on May 13, 2007, 04:15:37 PM
don't know
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Man with no dame on May 13, 2007, 04:43:15 PM
The Wild Bunch. I can't even mention runner-ups by him , because he was never this good before or after. Just saw Major Dundee few months ago, very disappointed, even though it had virtually the same cast. It looked like he hadn't gotten TV work out of his system yet. Closest runner up, Pat Garret & Billy the Kid/maybe Cable Hogue.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Banjo on May 14, 2007, 07:09:43 AM
The Wild Bunch. Just saw Major Dundee few months ago, very disappointed, even though it had virtually the same cast.
Other than Warren Oates i'm struggling to think of another actor who appeared in both films. :-[
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: mike siegel on May 14, 2007, 07:15:17 AM
you mean BUNCH & DUNDEE?

there's also Ben Johnson, L.Q.Jones, Dub Taylor and Aurora Clavell.

Mario Adorf told me Peckinpah wanted him as Mapache. But he refused since he played Mexicans all the time in 'Euro Western'. He looked at me and said 'I shouldn't have turn him down, no?' I didn't answer..
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Banjo on May 14, 2007, 07:47:33 AM
I'm probably showing my lack of Peckinpah knowlegde here but i'm guessing those guys were further down the bill than the main players like Holden,Borgnine,Heston and Harris. :-\
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Man with no dame on May 14, 2007, 08:10:20 AM
you mean BUNCH & DUNDEE?

there's also Ben Johnson, L.Q.Jones, Dub Taylor and Aurora Clavell.

Mario Adorf told me Peckinpah wanted him as Mapache. But he refused since he played Mexicans all the time in 'Euro Western'. He looked at me and said 'I shouldn't have turn him down, no?' I didn't answer..
I believe your thinking of Strother Martin ,not Dub Taylor.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Man with no dame on May 14, 2007, 08:16:54 AM
By the by, did you know that Strother Martin and I believe Bud Spencer used to be big in swimming competitions. I think Martin used to be an instructor in Hollywood. These two just don't strike me as the Greg Loughanis types.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: mike siegel on May 14, 2007, 09:40:54 AM
yeah, I know. Cool, isn't it? Strother was more a diver and springboard guy. I have to search my archive...
But this one might help your imagination regarding Carlo Pedersoli:


(http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1612/7186524/16445514/252551137.jpg)(http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1612/7186524/16445514/252552416.jpg)
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Man with no dame on May 14, 2007, 09:51:07 AM
Funny, when I was younger, I always thought Mario Brega and Bud Spencer were the same guy. Thanks for the pic.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: mike siegel on May 14, 2007, 10:29:51 AM
And I had problems keeping Mario Brega from Aldo Sanbrell apart   :D
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: The Firecracker on May 14, 2007, 11:07:37 AM
And I had problems keeping Mario Brega from Aldo Sanbrell apart   :D

really? They look nothing alike.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: mike siegel on May 14, 2007, 01:14:52 PM
at the age of 12 maybe all bearded heavies looked alike..

what did you mean with 'Those Dirty Asses'? Didn't get that...
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Tuco the ugly on May 14, 2007, 01:31:03 PM
Hey Mike why do you have pictures of naked Bud on your computer?
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Man with no dame on May 14, 2007, 01:48:42 PM
Uh, I'm afraid we all have pictures of naked Bud on our computer now!
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: mike siegel on May 14, 2007, 02:46:41 PM



@naked Bud:

I was researching for a book on nudity in Italian Westerns, hoping to find those rare shots of Cardinale taken without her clothes on after the bathtub scene, they're veery nice. Anybody cares for those?
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Groggy on May 14, 2007, 03:30:30 PM
I believe your thinking of Strother Martin ,not Dub Taylor.

No, Strother was not in "Dundee". Dub was in both though.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Man with no dame on May 14, 2007, 03:51:05 PM
You are correct, sir. Coulda swore I saw Strother lurking around in Dundee. I always got them confused, they look so much alike.(OOPS, Don't start that crap again. I don't wanta see nude pics of Dub Taylor)
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Banjo on May 14, 2007, 03:58:20 PM
yeah, I know. Cool, isn't it? Strother was more a diver and springboard guy. I have to search my archive...
But this one might help your imagination regarding Carlo Pedersoli:
Definately unrecognisable.I heard Spencer actually competed at one of the Olympics Games but i couldn't find out which one or even if we won a medal. :-\
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: dave jenkins on May 14, 2007, 04:37:12 PM
No, Strother was not in "Dundee". Dub was in both though.
Strother IS in The Deadly Companions, however. Also Chill Wills. And still there are those who steadfastly refuse to watch this picture.......
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: The Firecracker on May 14, 2007, 04:50:53 PM
And still there are those who steadfastly refuse to watch this picture.......


why?
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: dave jenkins on May 14, 2007, 05:20:11 PM
I have no idea. But note, if you will, that it is not one of the choices listed above.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Tuco the ugly on May 14, 2007, 06:02:06 PM

@naked Bud:

I was researching for a book on nudity in Italian Westerns, hoping to find those rare shots of Cardinale taken without her clothes on after the bathtub scene, they're veery nice. Anybody cares for those?


Good one,HOO HA!















































Yeah!!!!!
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: The Firecracker on May 14, 2007, 06:08:35 PM
I have no idea. But note, if you will, that it is not one of the choices listed above.


I wouldn't mind watching it.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Banjo on May 15, 2007, 01:42:48 AM
FC you appear to be slowly but surely becoming a Peckinpah convert!! :o
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: mike siegel on May 15, 2007, 05:01:29 AM
Bud Spencer is indeed a very colorful character. He was the unbeaten Italian champion (100m Freestyle) and competed in Helsinki 1952 & Melbourne 1956 where he ended 11th. He also was European Champion with Italy's Waterball team. He was a big Idol in Italy in the 1950's.
But he felt the spotlight wasn't everything in life and left all his fame and fortune for a soul-search building roads in South American  Amazonas Areas!

As for DEADLY COMPANIONS: almost like COLOSSO for Leone-Fans, eh? nobody really seems to care for the feature debut of our heroes. Very interesting that DEADLY has a fan here, after all it's really only interesting for die-hard Peckies. But if you like it, you should watch THE WESTERNER, Sam's TV-Series which belongs to the very best every done for the little screen. MUCH better than DEADLY, where Sam wasn't allowed to work on the awful script thanks to O'Hara's brother. He even recut the ending: Peckinpah wanted Keith's character to kill Cochran as it was filmed.  Fitzsimons went for the nice American good guy stuff and cut it in such a way it appears that Wills is doing the job.
SEE PICTURE of the cut scene.

But the worst is the music. Peckinpah always claimed that Bill Clothier saved the day by getting good images on that awful Pathe Film stock. Peckinpah also wanted to do add elements Leone introduced later: Sweat, and flies and sounds. After all they're carrying a body through the heat of the desert!  But Mr.Producer wouldn't go for it.

(http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1612/7186524/16445514/252756855.jpg)
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Leone Admirer on May 15, 2007, 05:49:02 AM
FC you appear to be slowly but surely becoming a Peckinpah convert!! :o

I hope so  O0
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: The Firecracker on May 15, 2007, 08:54:45 AM
FC you appear to be slowly but surely becoming a Peckinpah convert!! :o


Hardly, the only thing I remotley like from his camp is PGABTK and Straw Dogs.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Banjo on May 16, 2007, 05:23:19 AM

Hardly, the only thing I remotley like from his camp is PGABTK and Straw Dogs.
I've got a widescreen video of Straw Dogs which i bought because we lived in St.Buryan(the Cornish village where it was filmed) for a short while and despite (due to its subject matter) it being a taboo subject in the village,we were told about it be legendary folk/blues singer singwriter Wizz Jones in a gig he played near Sennen Cove.Its a really good movie in fact ,a Cornish western(they call themselves the Wild West down there)and for me  its much better paced and enjoyable than PSABTK or WB.

St.Buryan definately isn't a very cheerful place but the photography in Straw Dogs does make it look a helluva lot more bleaker than i remember it to be.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: mike siegel on May 16, 2007, 08:35:01 AM
Taboo..
Interesting. I'd guess nobody over there would be overwhelmed with the films content, but it seems to be a no-go there...
I wanted to shoot there for my Peckinpah-film. But then I learned that the Scottish BBC's Kermode was just shooting there, so I left it alone since that location wasn't 'exclusive' any longer in terms of documentary footage (their o.k. doc is called MAN TRAP).

So maybe it was better I didn't go, eh? Not welcome, asking the town folks about 'ol Sam shooting in St:Buryan....

But I went to Mapache's Hacienda and dug out WILD BUNCH ammo, that was fun :)
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Banjo on May 16, 2007, 09:03:15 AM
We were only there for 10 months in 1999 but things didn't work out and we moved back to the SE.

Unfortunately much like the Welsh,they're not terribly friendly in Cornwall to the English(they don't count themselves as English) and in our case it seemed that by buying a house in this part of the country(many London commuters do this,as well as people buying Cornish property as holiday homes)we were contributing in pushing up house prices which was perceived as denying young born and bred Cornish couples from being able to take a step on the property ladder.

I suppose thats  understandable  but we also encountered some Cornish Heritage nutters who were handing out pamplets about the English somehow ethnically cleansing them of their culture and heritage.They would be picketing neolithic sites like Carn Euny village because they are owned by the English Heritage charity but overlooked the fact that the costly maintenance of these sites meant that they were running at a loss so English Heritage was in fact heavily subsidising the upkeep of these places.

St.Buryan just didn't have any atmosphere (try instead St.Just north of Lands End where theres a good night to be had with plenty of pubs including a fiddley-dee night on Mondays),and like in the movie they were very frosty in the one pub of the village.We came back in early 2000 which was just a few months before the dvd so we must've just missed Kermode who did  that documentary.Its quite remarkable on seeing the film just how little the village has changed though you never really see anything apart from the high street,pub and church.We were living in a characterless newly tagged on housing estate built some time after the film.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: mike siegel on May 16, 2007, 01:22:03 PM
Thanks for these insights!!  First hand stories are the best by far.

I love the internet. Earth becomes so small. When I wanted to film the WILD BUNCH hacienda nobody knew its whereabouts. That desert is bigger than the UK. So I asked in a Mexican forum whether anybody knew that place. Nobody did (it was deserted in 1913 after an earthquake dried out the wells) but a 70-year old guy said: 'I live in that area, i'll search for it..' So he drove for two days with a jeep and found it (there are no roads!).He invited me, I flew to Mexico and we went there filming (3 years before the Dog(sic) Brothers for the PECKINPAH WESTERN BOX documentary).
Without the web that never would have happened.

Kermode filmed early in 2003 there. The DVD came out in November 2002, I was in London then celebrating it since I worked on it a bit too...
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Banjo on May 16, 2007, 03:31:13 PM
Kermode filmed early in 2003 there. The DVD came out in November 2002, I was in London then celebrating it since I worked on it a bit too...
As soon as myself and Mrs Banjo got back to Sussex and got a computer we made a big point of trying to get hold of Straw Dogs and was totally amazed when Mrs Banjo spotted the uncut vhs edition in a record shop.

We never heard anything about the taboo within St.Buryan,only outside of it so it did become the Holy Grail for us.

There was a definate clique (we got the same sort of looks that Sgt Howie got from the Summerisle residents in Wicker Man)in the general store,the post office and pub and its not too hard to understand why there was such a big (unspoken) local hang-up about the movie.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: mike siegel on May 17, 2007, 12:29:49 AM
Somehow NOW I really want to go there :)

That tape, yeah. Good one.
In 1992 I was at Westminster film fair buying paper as usual and asked a video guy: 'How about STRAW DOGS'.. And he told me the story of it being banned adter 1984 and that there is an uncut tape from 83 or 84 which is about 50-70 quit. People next to him nodded.. I was sad having seen the film never in English.
Five tables next to him was a guy with Disney & Carry-On videos. AND STRAW DOGS. Presumly uncut since there was no rating. 5 pounds. 'Bought it and showed it too the other dealer. 'Blooody Germans... and lucky too..(he was fun).

In Germany the film had the same history: Uncut in the theatres, banned from HomeVideo in 1983. And we had to fight t0o to get it off that ban last year. I think it's gonna be better than the Freemantle. Although it is a milestone DVD, too many mistakes were made, like the master of the film, which is not sharp enough. It should have been a 2-Disc like we're doing right now. Yet it was soo cool to stand in HMV and see STRAW DOGS making the TOP 3 list next to LORD OF THE RINGS and HARRY POTTER !
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Banjo on May 17, 2007, 01:44:24 AM
Somehow NOW I really want to go there :)
Go for it,the surrounding countryside(and the many coves onthe coastline) in that Penwith peninsular is absolutelty
breathtaking.A great place to spend for a holiday(btw the Cornish like to refer to  holiday makers as "Ents" because they scurry around Penzance and St.Ives like ants!!!) but unfortunately no work available.

Try not to fall down an old tin mine. ;D
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: dave jenkins on May 17, 2007, 09:44:38 AM

As for DEADLY COMPANIONS: almost like COLOSSO for Leone-Fans, eh? nobody really seems to care for the feature debut of our heroes. Very interesting that DEADLY has a fan here, after all it's really only interesting for die-hard Peckies. But if you like it, you should watch THE WESTERNER, Sam's TV-Series which belongs to the very best every done for the little screen. MUCH better than DEADLY, where Sam wasn't allowed to work on the awful script thanks to O'Hara's brother. He even recut the ending: Peckinpah wanted Keith's character to kill Cochran as it was filmed.  Fitzsimons went for the nice American good guy stuff and cut it in such a way it appears that Wills is doing the job.
SEE PICTURE of the cut scene.

But the worst is the music. Peckinpah always claimed that Bill Clothier saved the day by getting good images on that awful Pathe Film stock. Peckinpah also wanted to do add elements Leone introduced later: Sweat, and flies and sounds. After all they're carrying a body through the heat of the desert!  But Mr.Producer wouldn't go for it.
And of course P got his second chance with this when he did Alfredo Garcia. In fact, just as Major Dundee is in some ways an early run-through for The Wild Bunch, TDC is a kind of demo for BMTHOAG. The later films are better than their forerunners, but those early works are interesting too.

I can't imagine why you don't like the music for TDC. There is an awful song that Maureen O'Hara sings over the opening credits, but the score itself is a simple composition for accordion and guitar. At best not unpleasant, at worst unobtrusive, the piece does nothing to harm the film as a whole.

Yes, the ending was not as good as Sam's intention. Not the last time a producer would fiddle with P's work, eh?. Still, the difference isn't all that great: the bad guys end up dead, the hero rides off with the heroine. It was always going to be a fairly conventional ending.

Balance this against all the positives in the film: the "grabber" in the first minute, when Brian Keith walks into a bar and sees Chill Wills, strung up and balancing for dear life on a beer keg; Steve Cochran shooting at his image in a mirror (much better use of the idea than what was done later in PG&BtK); the religious meeting in the saloon (the bit with covering up the paintings is choice); the bank robbery that occurs before our heroes can rob it (and which they prevent, so as to rob it themselves later); the central problem (not unlike the one in BMTHOAG); the encounter with the braves playing Indian & Cowboys with a stolen stage coach; Keith's stealing a horse from a brave, thus initiating their duel to the death; burying the wagon; the final showdown. Then there are some great characters: Chill Wills, with his whining, bullying, and ideas about starting his own republic, is both menacing and comic. Steve Cochran's laid-back snake approach is also fascinating to watch: you keep wondering when he's going to strike (the interaction between Wills and Cochran is also a delight). And even the usually dull Brian Keith is here made interesting (granted, there's no saving Maureen O'Hara).

I don't doubt that The Westerner is worth a look, but what opportunity is there to see it? Anyway, how can it possibly compare with color and widescreen, which show off P's Arizona locations to advantage ?(nothing in the film was shot in the studio, even interiors were shot in Old Tucson) No, far from being of interest only to die-hard Peckies, I'd say TDC is essential Peckinpah...
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: mike siegel on July 25, 2007, 08:32:31 AM
In case anybody is interested in my book PASSION & POETRY - SAM PECKINPAH IN PICTURES: At AMAZON.DE they're practically giving away some left-over books!
I'm sure it's just for a very short time, the price is unbelievable: about 8,00 Euro. That's over 70% less! (29,90 is the regular price.). And there won't be a 2nd printing, that's for sure.
The writing is in German but it is basically a photo-book with over 1000 images, 300 in color. It is very heavy, 3 pounds, with 576 pages. The filmography is more exlizit than in any of the other books. And those who want the read about the Man or the Films surely own the great publications by Garner Simmons, David Weddle & Paul Seydor.

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3896024728/qid=1092387857/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/302-6206201-6208832

On my website you can take a look inside the book:
www.eldorado-film.de
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: dave jenkins on July 25, 2007, 08:44:43 AM
Thanks, Mike. I was reading your posts on another board and I saw you mentioned this: http://www.amazon.com/Getaway-Unused-Score-Original-Soundtrack/dp/B000E1NVB0/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-1512335-1543158?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1185377320&sr=1-1

Wow, I didn't know 1) that there was an unused soundtrack to The Getaway; 2) that it is available on CD; 3) that the CD comes with a bonus DVD of a 30 minute Peckinpah doc by Nick Redman. Kinda pricey, but I guess I'm gonna have to get it.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Silenzio on July 25, 2007, 08:47:28 AM
Thanks, Mike. I was reading your posts on another board and I saw you mentioned this: http://www.amazon.com/Getaway-Unused-Score-Original-Soundtrack/dp/B000E1NVB0/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-1512335-1543158?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1185377320&sr=1-1



Wow, would you look at that guy's review.   ::)  He buys something called "The Getaway: THE UNUSED SCORE" and gives it one star because it's not the original soundtrack....
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: noodles_leone on July 25, 2007, 08:49:46 AM
 ;D
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: dave jenkins on July 25, 2007, 08:51:54 AM
Yeah, that guy is about as smart as Christopher Null . . .
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: noodles_leone on July 25, 2007, 08:53:02 AM

;D

(my posts are getting more and more constructive.)
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: dave jenkins on July 26, 2007, 01:44:58 PM
This looks good for UK Peckinpah fans: http://www.dvdmaniacs.net/Reviews/A-D/deadly_companions.htm

R1 viewers are probably better off getting the Japan disc (as it is NTSC) if it's still available.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Leone Admirer on July 26, 2007, 01:51:15 PM
I'm surprised the fight over Peckinpah at thedvdforums hasn't spilled over to here yet...
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: dave jenkins on December 17, 2007, 12:00:40 PM
I don't know about these things...
But don't buy it because of the main feature - it can't be better than the CRITERION. Same quality I'd say.
The Bonus Disc & the whole package is the reason for it to have, isn't it..

(http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1612/7186524/13731420/251991061.jpg)
DVDTimes has finally reviewed this: http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=66545

Oops, sorry Mike, they say the documentary is interesting but "a little passe." They are generally complimentary about the release as a whole (image comparable to Criterion's). The extra that really intrigues me is the Super 8 version of the film, which is 85 minutes long. It must look awful, but I'm curious to see what was cut out.

Reading again about the controversy that surrounded (and still surrounds) this film, I can't help wondering whether its reception would have been different if Straw Dogs had been set in the past. After all, it's really a modern-day Western. I guess genre conventions go a long way toward buffering audiences from radical material, and filmmakers dispense with those conventions at their peril......
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: mike siegel on December 18, 2007, 04:03:29 AM
What does 'a little passe' mean ? Dated ?
Then again, I don't really care about critics. It's all a question of taste. I rather listen to opinions
 of colleagues or aficionados who really do care. For ex. critics wouldn't notice that my doc is the
only one out that was especially produced for a DVD - release. Everything on the
(great) CRITERION is licensed, i.e. 'bought' from others, produced decades ago (dated?).
They wouldn't even realize that my doc has the only soundbites of Peckinpah himself speaking
about the film. So why should I care what 'they' say  ^-^  You do a good job you should know by yourself.

The Super 8 actually is pretty good. One of my best prints. Unfortunately it is always a gamble with
these Super 8 / Digital transfers. Touchy subject. It came out o.k., but not nearly as good as it looks
on the screen - great focus & colors. And of course with 85 min. It is fairly long for a 70's Super - 8
version. On the negative side: the lab (back then) screwed up a bit and reversed side for 15 minutes!
Also I ruined the print pretty good years ago when my projector broke down and scratched it without
me realizing it.
But that supplement was meant as an additional gag anyway. As Super 8 versions on DVD always are.
People who still have Super 8 (and a nice 7 ft screen :)) will agree: what's the point of watching Super 8
on DVD ?  A gag. And good to know what was out there - when home'video' started out decades ago..

With the doc at 38 min. , additional 20 minutes of interviews/featurettes, I think we're not that bad.
Then there's a featurette with some 80 rare b/w behind the scenes stills, and some 60 international
posters & LC's in the 16-page booklet. What else does one need?
The additional trailer, TV-spots and Radio-spots some reviewers describe as 'taken from the Fremantle'.
They can't know of course that Fremantle got them from us (UK collector Jeff Slater & me) in the first place! 

Next year will finally see the DVD release of PASSION & POETRY - THE BALLAD OF SAM PECKINPAH.
I start working on it in January.

Can't wait to read the reviews. I love to read reviews. One guy wrote last year that I filmed Kristofferson
in an old people's home. (it was the Malibu hotel he stays at when in California. he lives in Hawaii).


Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: cigar joe on December 18, 2007, 06:44:41 AM
Quote
Next year will finally see the DVD release of PASSION & POETRY - THE BALLAD OF SAM PECKINPAH.
I start working on it in January.
O0

You will have it in an English Language Version, no?  8)
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: PowerRR on December 18, 2007, 08:18:55 AM
I won't vote, since I've only seen Straw Dogs and just some of The Wild Bunch. Straw Dogs is an excellent movie, though.

Oh, and take a look at this article about the remake and read about how the new director intends to handle the rape scene. Did he even watch the damn movie, or understand it at all?

 http://www.cinemafusion.com/index.php?/weblog/comments/does_rod_lurie_understand_straw_dogs/
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: moviesceleton on December 18, 2007, 10:06:55 AM
 
Next year will finally see the DVD release of PASSION & POETRY - THE BALLAD OF SAM PECKINPAH.
I start working on it in January.
I might be interested in buying it, though, to some extent depending on the price. Are you going to try to sell it to some TV stations? We've got this "art channel", YLE Teema that often shows series of movies and documentaries concentrating on certain director. To my understanding they haven't had Peckinpah series yet... ^-^
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: dave jenkins on December 18, 2007, 10:50:15 AM
The additional trailer, TV-spots and Radio-spots some reviewers describe as 'taken from the Fremantle'.
They can't know of course that Fremantle got them from us (UK collector Jeff Slater & me) in the first place! 
Nope, and I'm sure they don't care. What counts most for consumers and reviewers is who gets things out first. Even so,  your edition of Straw Dogs sounds like a really good package (but doesn't quite tempt me to go beyond the Criterion copy I already own).

Looking forward to the P&P DVD. I take it that the material that appeared on Major Dundee is only part of the complete work?
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: The Firecracker on December 18, 2007, 03:02:38 PM

Oh, and take a look at this article about the remake and read about how the new director intends to handle the rape scene. Did he even watch the damn movie, or understand it at all?




That "director" needs to be shot and the film project canned.

As for Mike's dvd, I might just pick it up to help him out (and for the cut version).
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: mike siegel on December 19, 2007, 09:11:31 AM
Talking about STRAW DOGS... I just had the privilege to watch a surviving rough cut of the siege - sequence. It runs 60 minutes (the final cut some 25 minutes). I already is a good thing, but if you compare it to the final cut, it really shows the genius of Sam Peckinpah. There is some more violence in it too, like the death of Venner (bear trap). I may put a clip on Youtube of that...

PASSION & POETRY: It is all in English. It was shot in English (except for the German actors, they are subtitled)
The narration was done by Monte Hellman.

There's gonna be a load of extras. Additional featurettes (for ex. on the WILD BUNCH locations) & stuff.

As for the already released bits: PASSION & POETRY by now turned into a series. I shot some 30 hours, so there's a lot.
Documentaries on single films (so far MAJOR DUNDEE, 22 min.; STRAW DOGS 38 min.; CROSS OF IRON in progress) contain footage that is in the feature film PASSION & POETRY as well as additonal footage. Makes sense?
For ex. MAJOR DUNDEE is dealt with with about 6 minutes in the feature documentary. For the SONY - doc it was extended by unused interview - footage. Same with STRAW DOGS. JUst think of THE GODFATHER or DAS BOOT - feature version ran some 2-3 hours, TV - version more than twice as long.
But the feature has a whole different impact of course. This can never come through in these shorter sort of 'making of's' of course.
Title: Re: Favorite Peckinpah Film
Post by: Ben Tyreen on December 19, 2007, 11:06:41 PM
Quote
As for the already released bits: PASSION & POETRY by now turned into a series. I shot some 30 hours, so there's a lot.

  Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawesome.

  Keep us updated, amigo!  :)