Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => For a Few Dollars More => Topic started by: titoli on September 02, 2005, 04:50:17 PM



Title: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: titoli on September 02, 2005, 04:50:17 PM
You can write whatever comes to your mind, apparently:

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19670515/REVIEWS/705150301/1023


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: The Peacemaker on September 02, 2005, 06:00:41 PM
Thanks for the link. I used to like him but I've lost repect for him because of what he said about Once Upon a Time in the West.

" There is also, unfortunately, Leone's inability to call it quits. The movie stretches on for nearly three hours, with intermission, and provides two false alarms before it finally ends. In between, we're given a plot complex enough for Antonioni, involving killers, land rights, railroads, long-delayed revenge, mistaken identity, love triangles, double-crosses and shoot-outs. "

I can't believe he said all that about such a brilliant movie! He also gave it only 2 1/2 stars while he gives that stupid " The 40 year Old Virgin " 3 1/2 stars!!!! Oh well. Everyone has they're own opinions. It's just very sad that crappy movies like that are popular and beautiful movies like Once Upon a Time in the West are overlooked just because they have slow pacing.  :'(


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: Alan Shearer 9 on September 02, 2005, 06:15:27 PM
he doesn't look real


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: cigar joe on September 03, 2005, 05:07:06 AM
Ebert was a relatively novice critic in the late 60's-70's he's since recanted his original review of GBU, it was in our SE edition were he himself mentions that fact.

I'd venture that may be the same for OUTITW, also remember that it was a butchered version that first premiered here.


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: Groggy on September 03, 2005, 06:56:54 AM
I believe he referred to OUATITW as a "masterpiece" in his GBU Great Movies article.  And he's been a huge defender of the uncut version of OUATIA since it originally came out.  I'd be interested if he wrote a "Great Movies" article on either one of those (I'd suspect the latter before the former though).


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: titoli on September 03, 2005, 07:26:30 AM
But does he still practice the same "anything-goes" kind of prose? Because what struck me is not the negative or ironic (and extremely superficial) slant of the "review" (how on earth can he say there's no plot? probably he went repeatedly to buy himself popcorn), but the fact that in the end you don't know what to make of it.

 
Quote
I believe he referred to OUATITW as a "masterpiece" in his GBU Great Movies article.

Then I would like to see how he managed to rhyme this:
 
Quote
THE REST of the film is one great old Western cliché after another.

as referred to that movie. Because it is apparent he doesn't like western movies and, probably, genre movies (which are structurally based on clichés). Which is pat. But then you don't have to be a newspaper reviewer. I presume (as that is the only thing i read by him), that as many of his peers did, he decided at one point to ride the wave of genre movies when they were made to look respectable, though not being persuaded.
Then I prefer the pathetic reviews of poor Bosley Crowther (I wonder how he could keep the chair at NYT for so long) which didn't understand the movie, didn't like it (for ridiculous reasons) and said so:

http://movies2.nytimes.com/mem/movies/review.html?title1=&title2=For%20a%20Few%20Dollars%20More%20%28Movie%29&reviewer=BOSLEY%20CROWTHER&v_id=18148&partner=Rotten%20Tomatoes&oref=login


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: Alan Shearer 9 on September 03, 2005, 09:19:53 AM
I just think he's either an alien or a robot and should be executed for being a prat and doing rubbish reviews of great films


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: cigar joe on September 03, 2005, 01:03:45 PM
Back in the 1960's nobody among the professional critics liked Leone's westerns. The general public made these films immortal the critics caught up later, the omly good review I remember seeing was in the Film Society Review.


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: grandpa_chum on September 03, 2005, 01:18:47 PM
I don't know i don't think his for a few dollars more review was that bad, specially for a mainstream critic reviewing a spaghetti, i thought it was actually pretty generous considering.

The thing that I like about ebert is that I've personally never seen a move that he recomended that I hated, but then again there are plenty of films I love that he just totally bashes... so if it's looking for a decent movie in theatres, he's a great read, if it's about seeing if he agrees with me on the classics, forget about him!


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: Groggy on September 03, 2005, 03:47:10 PM
Actually titoli, the "cliches" remark was referring to FAFDM.

And people's opinions can change over time.  Leonard Maltin, for instance, has raised his rating of this film from two stars to three and a half over the last two decades, IIRC.


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: titoli on September 03, 2005, 04:30:47 PM
Quote
Actually titoli, the "cliches" remark was referring to FAFDM.

In fact I meant how that sentence referred to FAFDM was in rhyme with his appreciation of OUATIW, which spins cliché after cliché at the speed of light.

And, sure, one's opinions may change: but it's easier change them if you don't express them clearly. As I've said, I respect more poor Crowther who had the courage of his own absurdities, than this bionic zombie, who has nothing to say and would like to make it pass for irony or smartedness.


Quote
so if it's looking for a decent movie in theatres, he's a great read 


then let us know about the 40 Year-Old Virgin. It should be a masterpiece


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: The Smoker on September 05, 2005, 09:59:07 AM
Nothing more terrorfing than a movie critic with his own website.
With added quite punchable smuge face in the top left corner. Hair or cotton wool?  Discuss:

Critics don't even like films. They use to.. before it became a 9 to 5.  ::)


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: boardwalk_angel on October 20, 2005, 09:12:27 PM
These are two of my favorite negative FAFDM reviews:

Eastwood Western Is Indigestible
By Toni Mastroianni
Cleveland Press May 25, 1967


http://www.clevelandmemory.org/mastroianni/tm295.shtml



Bosley Crowther's 1967 New York Times review is also a little less than complimentary:

Eastwood Film
2 Rivals in Murder Are Presented as Heroes

By BOSLEY CROWTHER
Published: July 4, 1967


 THE cool-cat image of a Western gun-slinger that was studiously fabricated by Clint Eastwood in "A Fistfull of Dollars," under the direction of Sergio Leone, is repeated by Mr. Eastwood in the aptly titled "For a Few Dollars More," which broke loose with some Fourth of July fireworks at the Trans-Lux West and other theaters yesterday. Everyone susceptible to the illusion that shooting and killing with fancy flourishes are fun can indulge his bloodlust to the fullest at this synthetic Italian-Spanish-made Western film.

Once again Mr. Leone has filled his plushly colored screen and his deliberately calculated sound-track with conglomerate stimuli that agitate moods of dread and danger, of morbid menace and suspense, and then erupt in cascades of vivid violence, fistfights, shootings and death.

The perils of a professional bounty killer, which Mr. Eastwood portrays, are multiplied in this instance not only by the wariness and tricks of the gang of Mexican banditti he pursues for the prices on their heads, but by the deceits of another bounty killer who is going after the same gang. The menace of this rival, played by Lee Van Cleef, is more dangerous and unpredictable than the known quantity of the murderous gang.

Thus it is the presence of this rival, as cool of manner and as deadly with the guns as the crafty, cheroot-chewing Mr. Eastwood, that furnishes Mr. Leone with what there is of interesting conflict between characters of modest scope.

The gunman of Mr. Eastwood is a fierce and fearless killing machine. So is the older, more experienced and righteously motivated gunman of Mr. Van Cleef. If anything, he is more clever and more sophisticated with the guns. Both are equally ruthless. Thus their rivalry, their dubious partnership and their frequent temptations to betrayal are the stuff of suspense in the film.

But, of course, the dynamics of it are in the freedom and ferocity with which Mr. Leone piles violence upon violence and charges the screen with the hideous fantasies of sudden death. In the close-up faces of his ugly ruffians, highlighted and shadowed in burnished hues, and in the ominous thump of drums and wail of trumpets that preface his menace scenes, he prepares us for the violent explosions that mark the deadly circuit of pursuit. In the bark of guns, the whine of bullets and the spinning bodies of men mortally hit, he provides the aural and visual stimulation for an excitement of morbid lust.

One may think that this is sheer fabrication, that the fantasies of killing contrived are devices for emotional escapism, that the foulness of the bandit leader, played with a hint of degeneration by Gian Maria Volonte, is a moral reason and justification for his being run down and slaughtered with his gang.

But the fact that this film is constructed to endorse the exercise of murderers, to emphasize killer bravado and generate glee in frantic manifestations of death is, to my mind, a sharp indictment of it as so-called entertainment in this day. There is nothing wholesome about killing men for bounty, nothing funny about seeing them die, no matter how much the audience may sit there and burble and laugh.

 







Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: cigar joe on October 21, 2005, 04:31:23 AM
I wonder what his favorite film of 1967 was?


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: HEX on October 21, 2005, 12:46:11 PM
i didnt take the time to read all the post(one can read only so much on ebert) but id like to say that most of his reviews for leones westerns were negative in the 60"s. and he has gone back and looked at these films and called them masterpieces. not that iam defending the fat bastard.


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: cigar joe on October 21, 2005, 03:44:05 PM
Just goes to show waht a pack of weasliy lemmings all the critics were. I remember a very good positive review from a mag called Film Society Review.


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: The Smoker on October 21, 2005, 04:15:33 PM
I wonder what his favorite film of 1967 was?

I'll give it a shot. Docter Dolittle maybe? 'he talks to the animals you know'


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: iceman on October 23, 2005, 02:49:23 PM
I'll give it a shot. Docter Dolittle maybe? 'he talks to the animals you know'

Ebert must be a pillock >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

ICE


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: titoli on November 22, 2005, 01:34:29 PM
Quote
I wonder what his favorite film of 1967 was?

I can easily presume it was a toss-up between Graduate, Zivagoff and Sound of Music. He's a serious critic, ya know...


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: grandpa_chum on November 24, 2005, 09:00:33 PM
i didnt take the time to read all the post(one can read only so much on ebert) but id like to say that most of his reviews for leones westerns were negative in the 60"s. and he has gone back and looked at these films and called them masterpieces. not that iam defending the fat bastard.

That is precisely why I could never be a successful critic... the one thing you have to do to be a successful critic is say exactly what the audience wants to hear, and only reccomend those movies that every idiot will love... which is also the only reason I even read ebert's and, before he died, siskel's reviews now, because they are/were the only two critics big enough to actually write their own opinions and get away with it.


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: Christopher on November 29, 2005, 08:48:33 PM
I've always respected Ebert. The only reason why people take shots at him is because he's the most famous critic around these days. I used to watch the show, going back to when Gene was still alive, and I actually found out about indie movies that I wouldn't have found out about otherwise.

Of course you don't have to agree with everything he says. Check out his Unforgiven review in his Great Movies series. That left me a little puzzled. ???


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: HEX on November 29, 2005, 09:48:04 PM
Check out his Unforgiven review in his Great Movies series. That left me a little puzzled. ???


why is it puzzling. u did not like UNFORGIVEN?


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: Christopher on November 30, 2005, 08:57:57 AM
I love Unforgiven, but Ebert writes as if it's your basic, everyday common western. It's been a while since I've read it, but I remember Ebert talking about the ending, and the "Deserves got nothing to do with it" line, and Ebert says something about deserving does have something to do with it. And I'm like, but the movie says just the opposite, and it means what it says.


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: HEX on November 30, 2005, 09:06:48 AM
I love Unforgiven, but Ebert writes as if it's your basic, everyday common western. It's been a while since I've read it, but I remember Ebert talking about the ending, and the "Deserves got nothing to do with it" line, and Ebert says something about deserving does have something to do with it. And I'm like, but the movie says just the opposite, and it means what it says.


EBERT need to get his eyes checked(some carrots will do him some good as opposed to the pounds of hamburger meat he eats every day) UNFORGIVEN is a very different western from others. it is very original. the hero is pretty much a wathced up gunfighter who cant even get on his horse. it is not until the end that we see him as a badass. also the film has other elements that i personally have not seen in a western or any other film for that matter. and that element is that guns are inaccurate just like humans. they do overheat and misfire. they are not always reliable. and the film focuses on this. it also focuses on the effects of killing another human being.

"itsa helluva thing killing a man"

and EBERT is a helluva of an idiot for thinking this is the same western we have been getting all these years.

i am being harsh on ebert, i do somewhat respect the man, and i think he is the best of the bunch when it comes to critics.


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: Leone Admirer on November 30, 2005, 09:59:46 AM
All reviewers have different opinions, though the ones that say Keira Knightly is a good actress really need to see a psychiatrist  ::)


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: HEX on November 30, 2005, 10:02:40 AM
All reviewers have different opinions, though the ones that say Keira Knightly is a good actress really need to see a psychiatrist  ::)

she is a hottie! :D she is one of the few actresses that i will go see a film just to look at her. didnt get to see DOMINO though. couldnt find the time. i hear i didnt miss much though.


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: Leone Admirer on November 30, 2005, 10:03:36 AM
To be honest I don't find her attractive at all so I don't have any advantages to see her deliver her lines poorly in movies in which she is miscast.


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: HEX on November 30, 2005, 10:05:49 AM
To be honest I don't find her attractive at all so I don't have any advantages to see her deliver her lines poorly in movies in which she is miscast.


one man's junk is another man's treasure i suppose.


i am very interested in hearing youre opinion on why she is a bad actress(not that i am disagreeing with u)


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: Leone Admirer on November 30, 2005, 10:11:30 AM
I just hate her delivery of her lines. Its like she doesn't put any effort into them. Often her manerisms in films, such as Domino, look very uncomfortable. However, I havent seen Pride and Prejudice yet and she seems to be good I have to admit at playing prim English roses, which is actually a role I hate, so if she gets nominated for an Oscar for that, which seems to be the rumour I have read and have been told about, then I suppose she could deserve it.


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: HEX on November 30, 2005, 10:19:07 AM
I just hate her delivery of her lines. Its like she doesn't put any effort into them. Often her manerisms in films, such as Domino, look very uncomfortable. However, I havent seen Pride and Prejudice yet and she seems to be good I have to admit at playing prim English roses, which is actually a role I hate, so if she gets nominated for an Oscar for that, which seems to be the rumour I have read and have been told about, then I suppose she could deserve it.


yes i do agree with u that she sometimes gives out some cringe worthy lines...

if u like pain! trying wearing a corset...(ouch i am still shivering from that one.)


however i think she does a well enough job in the roles that they give her to justify her exitance and not just as a beautiful english tart. i guess my opinion on her does not surprise u much since the subject matter we were discussing yesterday.
she has become something of a household name in the states now. if it wasnt for PIRATES OF THE CARRIBEAN i dont think anybody here would know of her.
as for PRIDE AND PREJUDICE i hated the book(not my thing) and i will undoubtly despise the film, however i will go see it for an obvious reason.


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: Leone Admirer on November 30, 2005, 10:23:06 AM
For English beauties, I love Kate Winslet and Rachel Weisz. Im ny opinion much better acomplished actress' and, for me, much more attractive. Then again what do I know, my ideal women are all Hollywood starlets, Ingrid Bergman, Bette Davis, Priscilla Lane etc etc


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: HEX on November 30, 2005, 10:34:25 AM
For English beauties, I love Kate Winslet and Rachel Weisz. Im ny opinion much better acomplished actress' and, for me, much more attractive. Then again what do I know, my ideal women are all Hollywood starlets, Ingrid Bergman, Bette Davis, Priscilla Lane etc etc


i cant say much for WINSLET. she was a big crush of mine when TITANIC was out but i grew up and lost attraction for her. WEISZ is a gorgious women. i have had eyes for since THE MUMMY in sixth grade. she is currently going to star in DARREN ARONOFSKY(sorry if mispelled) next film (which i think i mentioned on the board already).


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: Leone Admirer on November 30, 2005, 10:36:04 AM
I wanted to meet her at the Openign Night Gala of the London Film Festival but sadly couldn't. But hey I got to dance with Patricia Clarkson at the Closing Night Gala after party of the fest  ;D


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: HEX on November 30, 2005, 10:38:41 AM
I wanted to meet her at the Openign Night Gala of the London Film Festival but sadly couldn't. But hey I got to dance with Patricia Clarkson at the Closing Night Gala after party of the fest  ;D


hey! CLARKSON lucky u.
damn luck u didnt get to see WEISZ though. my god that face! :o dont get me started. ;D


HELENA BONHAM CARTER is another english women who is a cutey ;) honestly u englishmen get all the luck.


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: Leone Admirer on November 30, 2005, 10:41:35 AM
Yep, At first I didn't recognise it was her, then I recognised the green/blue dress she was wearing and I kinda gasped, she realised and laughed and then we carried on dancing. I also got to dance with Lady Victoria Harvey (but I didn't realise it was her at the time) What too much Champagne does to you  ;D


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: HEX on November 30, 2005, 10:42:44 AM
sorry ADMRIRER i added a little something to my last post when u had added youres.


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: Leone Admirer on November 30, 2005, 10:43:54 AM
Thats cool, I just saw it. Not too keen on Carter myself but a good actress. I would say the same about American men, but I would also include how great the country, cities, people are etc etc.


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: HEX on November 30, 2005, 10:47:04 AM
Thats cool, I just saw it. Not too keen on Carter myself but a good actress. I would say the same about American men, but I would also include how great the country, cities, people are etc etc.


no she is not beautiful, CARTER has her bad days as far as looks go, but she is very cute. and a good actress like u say.

i am a bit confused with the american men comment u gave. could u clarify?


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: Leone Admirer on November 30, 2005, 10:48:21 AM
sorry, you were syaing how lucky we English Men are and I meant how I feel how lucky American men are for their women, along with living ina great country along with great cities and great people.


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: HEX on November 30, 2005, 10:56:00 AM
sorry, you were syaing how lucky we English Men are and I meant how I feel how lucky American men are for their women, along with living ina great country along with great cities and great people.


oh yes of course sorry for the confusion. no yes i do consider myself lucky i love my country. however where i live it is not the best place to live at in this country. i have traveled all over the states and there are fine better places than MIAMI. for one i am tired latin women(though i have a girlfriend that is NICARAGUIAN, however this does not count ;D) i am tired of latin music. i am tired of all that is latin and is associated with MIAMI(which MIAMI is very latin influenced and i would have to say 97% of the population is latin) i come from a latin family and i am tired of it. i want to leave miami as soon as i can.

i guess it is the people. i am a very different person from all my friends here. everybody likes rap music and such and most want to become DJ'S for whatever reason. i am just not part of that crowd. i have spoken to many people outside the states not just online that share the same common interest as i do. we are at the same level. in miami i am no where near the level that the people around me are at.


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: Leone Admirer on November 30, 2005, 10:57:46 AM
I must admit, Miami doesn't really appeal to me as much as cities like NY, LA and Washington do, I think its more the North of Country that I like, of course as I have said before, its NY I want to live in.


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: Leone Admirer on November 30, 2005, 11:12:18 AM
Apologies everyone for taking this thread off topic. And now back to the question in hand. There are so many reviewers nowa days that were going to have people coming up with all kinds of views. The worst reviewer I can think off is the head reviewer for the Daily Mail who just slags off every film.


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: HEX on November 30, 2005, 11:15:06 AM
Apologies everyone for taking this thread off topic. And now back to the question in hand. There are so many reviewers nowa days that were going to have people coming up with all kinds of views. The worst reviewer I can think off is the head reviewer for the Daily Mail who just slags off every film.


well iam a bit late to say this but sorry to everyone, and sorry HARMONICA. LEONE_ADMRIRER and i went a bit to far with our conversation and we noticed to late. feel free to erase it if u wish.


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: Christopher on November 30, 2005, 01:12:26 PM
Thanks, guys, you saved me the time of reminding you to try to keep this somewhat on topic. ;) Though the conversation was interesting, maybe someone would like to start up an off-topic thread about some of these actresses. I know I'm adding to this off topic-ness (to make up a word), but I think Knightly is very good in what I've seen with her in it. Plus, she resembles Natalie Portman. ;D


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: Groggy on November 30, 2005, 04:39:32 PM

yes i do agree with u that she sometimes gives out some cringe worthy lines...

if u like pain! trying wearing a corset...(ouch i am still shivering from that one.)


however i think she does a well enough job in the roles that they give her to justify her exitance and not just as a beautiful english tart. i guess my opinion on her does not surprise u much since the subject matter we were discussing yesterday.
she has become something of a household name in the states now. if it wasnt for PIRATES OF THE CARRIBEAN i dont think anybody here would know of her.
as for PRIDE AND PREJUDICE i hated the book(not my thing) and i will undoubtly despise the film, however i will go see it for an obvious reason.

Just want to get in my two sense before we get back on track. . .

"Pirates of the Caribbean" was a hit because of Johnny Depp's great performance, and little else.  It was a fun movie and I can see why it's popular, but Knightley wasn't all that impressive IMO.  Neither, really, was anyone besides Depp (whom I ordinarily dislike) and Geoffrey Rush. 

Knightley's not a bad actress but she isn't all that great either.  I certainly don't plan to see "Pride and Prejudice", not my scene.


Title: Re: wish I was a professional movie critic
Post by: HEX on November 30, 2005, 05:43:55 PM

Knightley's not a bad actress but she isn't all that great either.  I certainly don't plan to see "Pride and Prejudice", not my scene.


nor is it mine. however i will just be a seat filler to go see KNIGHTLY. i am sure i will be doing the studio a great service to go see it cuz i think that film is gonna bomb.


as for DEPP notice his popularity has now sky rocketed becuase of PIRATES(which i liked the film). before that u would rarily hear from DEPP. now he has a bunch of bandwagoners as fans, and he is pretty much in every movie now.