Sergio Leone Web Board
Other/Miscellaneous => Off-Topic Discussion => Topic started by: Bill Carson on September 21, 2005, 12:29:28 PM
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hola amigos - so, before I begin, just want to make it clear that this is in NO way an attack on anyone's taste or choice of film-maker. here are some Directors whose work I think is... well OVERRATED!
Stanley Kubrick
Alfred Hitchcock
The Coen Brothers
Cameron Crowe
Kevin Smith
Quentin Tarantino (he's good but he ain't THAT good)
George Lucas
Francis Ford Coppola
Sofia Coppola
Woody Allen
.... to name a few. any additions? disagreements? 8)
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wow, thats a pretty impressive list
quite frankly, i consider you mentally insane for calling Stanley Kubrick, Alfred Hitchcock & Quentin Tarantino overrated, but maybe that's just me
i agree on Woody Allen
others: James Cameron (Aliens & T2 were great but the rest is utter shite), Kevin Costner (simply overrated, the guy stole the best director award from goddamn martin scorsese! can you beleive that shit?) and ofcourse: Michael Bay (if you're a filmgeek .. you hate Michael Bay, it's one of the base rules, hes just an annoying little kid who makes annoying little kid films, i want him to die)
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hola Johny - I like your feedback. there was a time when I didn't mind Michael Bay but not anymore. I hope he doesn't completely screw up TRANSFORMERS....
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Robert Rodriguez...
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SERGIO LEONE
Kidding.
Spielberg is overrated in my book. Today he is considered one of the greatest filmmakers of all time. He's made some great films, several good, quite a few mediocre, and some crap. He surely isn't one of the all time greats in my book.
Also, Ron Howard has never made a particularly good film IMO. Way overrated.
I agree on Sofia Coppola, but I still think her father deserves all the credit he can get, eventhough he made Jack.
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I agree with your comment on Tarantino. He's good but his movies are a combination of several different genres, so not necessarily original.
On the other hand, I'm going to disagree with you on several on your list. FF Copolla isn't overrated. How about Godfather I and II? Because they were so good, I'll give him a pass on III. Kubrick too. How about Spartacus, Paths of Glory, Full Metal Jacket, and Dr. Strangelove? Not one of my favorite directors, but the man has made some great movies.
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Can't say I agree with all of the above, but a few of my own:
M. Night Shymalan - What the frick is so great about this guy? His movies wouldn't make good "X-Files" episodes.
James Cameron - A few good movies, but not any great ones.
Coen Bros.: - His movies are mildly amusing, nothing more. "O Brother, Where Art Thou?" is the exception; it completely, utterly SUCKED!
George Lucas - Except "The Empire Strikes Back" (not directed by Lucas), none of the "Star Wars" films IMO deserve their place as American classics.
Quentin Tarantino and Robert Rodriguez - Semi-talented guys who made careers off of ripping off other directors.
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I believe Humphrey Bogart said he didn't believe in the Oscars because to be fair, "everyone would have to play Hamlet". I understand his point. Are you actually selecting the best acting job, or selecting your favorite movie of the year?
Perhaps it should be the same with Directors. All should direct the same movie, then we could judge who was the best.
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Actually, by the very nature of entertainment promotion and its attendant hype, aren't ALL directors overrated? That's just the nature of the business.
More interesting (and much shorter) lists would be those of directors who are NOT overrated. I wonder how many names a majority of posters could agree on....
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WOW CARSON U GOT BOLAS OF STEEL
OR AS ALEC BALDWIN WOULD SAY IN GLENN GERRY-
A PAIR OF BRASS BALLS.
TOO SAY DIRECTORS LIKE THAT ARE OVERATED(THOUGH I AGREE ON ALLEN AND LUCAS AINT WHAT HE USED TO BE)
PERSONALLY I THINK U PUT SOME NAMES IN JUST TO CAUSE A STIR AND DIDNT REALLY MEAN IT(COUGH*KUBRICK*COUGH).
AND HITCHCOCK! COME ON I DONT BY U.
SO WHO DO U THINK IS NOT OVER RATED? ED WOOD PERHAPS? ::)
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Robert Rodriguez...
THANK YOU!
yeah obviously kubrick and hitchcock are overrated, they are still some of the best, but they are not worship material... I don't agree with woody allen or cameron crowe, i always thought crowe was underrated, most people don't even know who he is or what he's directed and woody allen is fantastic, maybe if i was around in the 70's i'd have a different opinion on his possible overrated status.... couldn't agree more with kevin smith, other than clerks(which is amazing) the guy sucks ass... and coppola is worshipped for no good reason and tarantino is in the same boat as hitchcock and kubrick, it's hard to call him overrated but his superfans are just too crazy.
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How 'bout Brian De Palma?
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Personally, I love de Palma, so I'd say no. I can't really see how you can call him overrated. At least in America, critics hate pretty much every non-mafia film he has ever made. Only in France is he considered a genius. Look through his filmography on imdb, quite a few of his films are rated lower than 6.
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Well, I like De Palma, I just don't think he's a great director.
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De Palma is great, hes a legend, i dont care how people rate his films on imdb, carlito's way is classic, carrie is classic, blowout is classic, the untouchables is classic
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Brian DePalma is a very talented director. My favourites are SCARFACE, CARLITO'S WAY and MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE.
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I've only seen Scarface, Carlito's Way and Untouchables and those are enough for me to see how great a director he is.
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Quentin Tarantino is the most over-rated director. I am at a loss as to why people still expect anything from him after that rotten shit fest, KILL BILL. He's beyond self indulgent. Did anyone see the season finale he did for CSI? Pure garbage. Just awful. His style of "clever" dialogue, pathetic references (or rip-offs), and hipper than thou posturing has done incredible damage to film as a whole. I hope his next shit-fest bombs, but we'll probably have to wait ten years for him to be done jerking off all over his script.
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I actually really liked his CSI episode last year that wrapped up the season. Good tension, good acting, and some nice QT touches. That scene where Nick(George Eads) imagines he's dead and sees the doctor doing the autopsy on him. When the doc hands Nick's father(Andrew Prine) his heart, I was cracking up.
On the other hand, I do think QT is overrated. I didn't like either Kill Bill movie, but I do enjoy Reservoir Dogs which is a great movie overall.
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Early DePalma Is a bad ass!
Sisters, Carrie, Blow Out, and The Fury were some of his best.
Overrated.
Spielberg
Both Scott Bros. ( Except: Blade Runner and Alien )
Lucas
Kevin Smith
Opie Taylor
David Fincher ( Am I the only one who hated **** Club )
Mel Gibson
Kevin Costner
Tim Burton ( Except Pee Wee and Ed Wood )
Rodriguez
Non Director
Anthony Hopkins! ( I think he is the most overrated POS. )
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Overrated.
Spielberg
Both Scott Bros. ( Except: Blade Runner and Alien )
Lucas
Kevin Smith
Opie Taylor
David Fincher ( Am I the only one who hated **** Club )
Mel Gibson
Kevin Costner
Tim Burton ( Except Pee Wee and Ed Wood )
Rodriguez
Non Director
Anthony Hopkins! ( I think he is the most overrated POS. )
Man, I am down with this list! Right-on, brother! (That last one cracked me up as well; but I would make an exception for his performance in A Bridge Too Far),
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I'm surprised at how many of my favorite directors are on many of the lists. I happen to be a fan or Stanley Kubrick, Alfred Hitchcock, Quentin Tarrentino, Joel Coen, and Woody Allen.
I'm especially confused by Stanley Kubrick. He directed some of the greatest films of all time in several different genres including horror (The Shinning), sci fi (A Clockwork Orange, 2001), comdedy (Dr. Strangelove), historical epic (Barry Lyndon), and war (Paths of Glory, Full Metal Jacket).
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You could pretty much put any director you wanted in a list like this. I'm not a fan of the word "overrated." It's all pretty subjective.
Hitchcock is one of the most studied filmmakers in cinema, so I guess if you wanted to call him overrated, you could. But he was still one of the best any way you look at it (in my own subjective opinion, naturally ;))
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David Fincher's a good pick. "Fight Club" (if you'll allow me to use this immature phrasology) sucked monkey balls.
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I agree. The ending was especially stupid. I'm not sure what it is about that movie that people think is so great.
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Quentin Tarantino is the most over-rated director. I am at a loss as to why people still expect anything from him after that rotten **** fest, KILL BILL. He's beyond self indulgent. Did anyone see the season finale he did for CSI? Pure garbage. Just awful. His style of "clever" dialogue, pathetic references (or rip-offs), and hipper than thou posturing has done incredible damage to film as a whole. I hope his next ****-fest bombs, but we'll probably have to wait ten years for him to be done jerking off all over his script.
lol, blasphemy man, pure blasphemy
if you think KB2 doesnt show pure talent, you better look up the term
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Here we go again:
http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/bshapiro/2010/01/17/top-10-most-overrated-directors-of-all-time/#idc-cover
There's something for everyone to get steamed about there, but then, I'm sure the article was meant as a provocation. Oddly, the writer makes the point about the auteur theory being a bust, then proceeds to compile a list based on auteur assumptions. The limitations of this approach should be obvious by now. As I've said before, if the auteur theory is bunk (with exceptions), then you have no choice but to argue the merits of individual films. Forget about directors and their "bodies of work" (with exceptions). Anyway, as I stated above, I'm sure this article is mostly about trying to get a rise out of the Fanboy Class. Take the bait, guys.
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He deserves to die for number 8 alone. This list does indeed seem predicated on the assumption that it will piss off 95% of film buffs.
"Tarantino doesn't know how to tell a story." I'm sorry, say that again? QT's primary asset as a film maker is his story-telling ability.
"Hitchcock never made a great film." Okay, he's now officially beneath contempt.
I might agree about Ridley Scott, and his take on The Graduate just about squares with mine, but otherwise, that list is utter shit.
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I like how he says all of Lean's films are half an hour too long. Which thirty minutes would he cut from Brief Encounter, I wonder? (Hopefully the stuff with Stanley Holloway and Joyce Carrey.)
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http://nothingiswrittenfilm.blogspot.com/2010/01/this-post-is-overrated.html
Jenkins, I ought to be crediting you as a source by now! Keep up the great work! O0
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I like how he says all of Lean's films are half an hour too long. Which thirty minutes would he cut from Brief Encounter, I wonder? (Hopefully the stuff with Stanley Holloway and Joyce Carrey.)
Very true, and I like those silly Ford-esque scenes at the station. lol
I do need to see of more of Lean's work. I've had GE dvr'd for over a year and haven't watched it yet.
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Oliver Twist is better. Or so I remember.
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I hope his next shit-fest bombs
Holy shit!
Can you hope for our recession to end soon!?
this guy's is a fuckin' prophet.
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Oliver Twist is better.
Tru dat.
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Jenkins, I ought to be crediting you as a source by now! Keep up the great work! O0
Hey, that was a pretty funny post! Everybody, go to Groggy's website and enjoy a chuckle or two.
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Yeah, I read it, very good stuff. lol
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Numbnuts is back: http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/bshapiro/2010/01/24/the-top-ten-greatest-directors-of-all-time/
When he said "most overrated" before I thought he was limiting himself to Hollywood filmmakers, but this new one apparently encompasses all of world cinema. Not only has this guy never heard of Howard Hawks (as a comments poster noted), he's never even heard of the French!
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He spends more time explaining why x-directors aren't on the list than why y-directors are.
Also his lengthy whining/semi-apologia about the treatment he got for his last piece is pretty obnoxious too.
Not as bad as his previous list, but still, in this economy, this guy should not have a job.
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I'd wager a substantial amount of cash that the dude received the gig by the means of nepotism.
That list is so boring, it's not even worth any serious discussion -- guy needs to see more movies.
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His list of overrated directors is far more impressive than his best directors list.
Still both are lists mainly from the Hollywood point of view. As most top 100 (or whatever) lists of best films in the last decade. And especially in the www.
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I believe Jackson’s Lord of the Rings trilogy to be the finest directorial effort of all time
M is the best foreign language film ever made. Period.
Do I even need to say anything?
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Did anyone else notice that this is the same guy who in his previous article bitched about the auteur theory being "idiotic"? What is this article if not a celebration of the auteur theory?
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http://nothingiswrittenfilm.blogspot.com/2010/01/dumbass-rides-again.html (http://nothingiswrittenfilm.blogspot.com/2010/01/dumbass-rides-again.html)
Alright, Big Hollywood. I want paid for this article, now.
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Numbnuts is back: http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/bshapiro/2010/01/24/the-top-ten-greatest-directors-of-all-time/
Wow, this guy is an insult to journalism.
District 9 was directed by Peter Jackson?
What lousy research on this guys part.
And, with the exception of William Wyler, his "best directors" list reads like a generic "top ten directors of all time" list from IMDB.
I see why DJ was opposed to the whole article though, Chaplin made the top ten.
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Not as bad as his previous list, but still, in this economy, this guy should not have a job.
100% agreement.^
We should probably send all our comments here to BIGHollywood in the form of an email.
I'm sure they'll chuck it to one side but it's worth a try.
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1 = not overrated, 10 = very overrated
- Stanley Kubrick = 6
- Alfred Hitchcock = 2
- The Coen Brothers = 3
- Cameron Crowe, haven't seen any of his movies.
- Kevin Smith = 8
- Quentin Tarantino = 7
- George Lucas = 1 [the original trilogy of Star Wars and Indiana jones], but 9 for the star wars prequels and the new Indiana Jones film
- Francis Ford Coppola = 4
- Sofia Coppola, haven't seen any of her movies.
- Woody Allen, haven't seen any of his movies.
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I'll probably add
- Ridley Scott: 8
- David Lean: 6
- Akira Kurosawa: 4
- Kathryn Bigelow: 8
- Martin Scorcese: 4
- Brian De Palma: 5
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I would hope that when y'all are listing "overrated" directors, you mean that in your opinion that director's great films are overrated, and not that the director simply hasn't released anything good recently
if any director sticks around long enough, he will eventually be called "overrated," especially while he is still alive.
And I am not referring to Breitbart's list (which I didn't even read cuz I couldn't access the site). I am referring to y'all's lists. It's no coincidence that so many of them contain almost every active director who at one point was considered great. The bottom line is that nobody can keep up a significant output of stellar films for 40 years, so if eg someone made films you like in the 70's and 80's but not many you like in the last 20 years, boom, he's "overrated," because he hasn't done anything good recently
How many directors can really release a great movie every couple of years over the course of 40 years?
How about using the "Leone-rule": if a director makes 6 great or near-great films, he's a great director ;)
as for the jackass that mentioned Scorcese: He has made at least 9 movies I can think of that I would rate at least an 8/10. Who's That Knocking At My Door, Mean Streets, Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, The Color of Money, Goodfellas, The Aviator. A good number of them get 9's or 10's.
As for DJ's comment that Breitbart must never have heard of Howard Hawks: all I can say is that I'd never call the man who made Rio Bravo and Red River -- 2 of maybe the top 5 AW's of all-time -- overrated
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I think Bringing Out The Dead [1999] is Scorcese's most underrated film.
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as for the jackass that mentioned Scorcese: He has made at least 9 movies I can think of that I would rate at least an 8/10. Who's That Knocking At My Door, Mean Streets, Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, The Color of Money, Goodfellas, The Aviator. A good number of them get 9's or 10's.
Well I think you're missing the definition of 'overrated' there...calling something overrated is extremely opinionated - 'sort of the point of it. If there were a general consensus that someone or something was overrated, then it couldn't even be called overrated.
By you giving all those Scorsese movies high scores, someone could easily say that they feel you are overrating him. And most everyone would disagree with him, because most everyone has a high regard for Scorsese. But that's the point of calling something overrated - one person (or a small group) of people displaying their unusual opinion.
Ingmar Bergman is overrated. I've watched 5 or 6 of his films and they all fucking suck.
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Well I think you're missing the definition of 'overrated' there...calling something overrated is extremely opinionated - 'sort of the point of it. If there were a general consensus that someone or something was overrated, then it couldn't even be called overrated.
By you giving all those Scorsese movies high scores, someone could easily say that they feel you are overrating him. And most everyone would disagree with him, because most everyone has a high regard for Scorsese. But that's the point of calling something overrated - one person (or a small group) of people displaying their unusual opinion.
Ingmar Bergman is overrated. I've watched 5 or 6 of his films and they all fucking suck.
well I was clearly stating my own opinion of Scorsese. Who else's opinion could I be stating?. I my opinion, those movies re all damn fine
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Oh God what's with all of these bumped threads?! lol. I have to delete posts left and right.
I nearly shat my pants in horror when me whatever how many years ago called Anthony Mann overrated. What a horrendous opinion.
Edit - actually it was Michael Mann which is almost as bad
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The only Ingmar Bergman films I like are The Seventh Seal and Wild Strawberries, his other ones are just boring.