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Films of Sergio Leone => Other Films => Topic started by: HEX on October 17, 2005, 12:06:11 PM



Title: Joe Kidd (1972)
Post by: HEX on October 17, 2005, 12:06:11 PM

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068768/


when i purchased the GREAT SILENCE some time ago it came with a little booklet highlighting some facts about the film(the booklet only comes with the fantoma edition). the booklets passage was written by ALEX COX. in the passage he mentions that the unfamous EASTWOOD western JOE KIDD was a remake of SILENCE. ??? what the hell ???



i saw JOE KIDD for the first time a couple of nights ago on ENCORE WESTERNS. this movie doesnt have the foggiest resemblance to THE GREAT SILENCE in the least bit. the only simarlarity i can think of is one of the villians's guns in the film(later acquired by JOE) is the same firearm SILENCE has in his films. but that alone cant qualify for a sequel. what gives? anyone know?

iam led to believe COX was misinformed and made a mistake

or that he was taken some form of hallucinogen when writing the passage
(personally id like to go with the latter, cuz it sounds so damn funny ;D)

but if anyone can shed some light on this mystery i would very much thank u.


Title: Re: Joe Kidd (1972)
Post by: Christopher on October 17, 2005, 01:05:41 PM
I'm with you, HEX, this is first time I've ever heard the idea. They don't seem to have much in common.


Title: Re: Joe Kidd (1972)
Post by: Cat Stevens on October 17, 2005, 02:23:49 PM
I don't see the similarities either.  When Eastwood wants to remake a Western - he does it to a 'T' (Shane --> Pale Rider)


Title: Re: Joe Kidd (1972)
Post by: cigar joe on October 17, 2005, 03:57:51 PM
The story 's plot points are loosely based on GS, outlaws up in the hills, bounty hunters from town after them, friendly bounty hunter (Eastwood) etc. The big thing missing was the snow. Of course you have the Mauser Bolo machine pistol & Mingo's outfit is very similar to Loco's (scarf over the head hat on top) look.


Title: Re: Joe Kidd (1972)
Post by: HEX on October 17, 2005, 04:18:08 PM
very true CIGAR JOE i noticed this also but its still not enough things to qualify it as a remake.

besides u can find simarlarities in all movies.

try comparing 2001 SPACE ODDYSEY to say...
.....
...... PLAN NINE FROM OUTER SPACE ;D
iam sure youll find simarlarities there too.




as for comparing both JOE KIDD and SILENCE there is another thing i just remembered.... the closest u get to snow in  KIDD is in the mountain tops in the background.

so COX'S little passage makes me even more confused. why did he say JOE KIDD was a "snow bound" western?
the only snow u see is almost unnoticiable in the background.



Title: Re: Joe Kidd (1972)
Post by: Le Bon on October 17, 2005, 04:52:44 PM
When The Great Silence was first shown on British TV on the Moviedrome series which Alex Cox introduced he mentioned that Eastwood wanted to do a remake but it fell through and he used elements from it in Joe Kidd such as the Mauser and maybe the gloves... although they are not exactly the same. He also cast Vonetta Mcgee in The Eiger Sanction.


Title: Re: Joe Kidd (1972)
Post by: HEX on October 18, 2005, 09:42:47 AM
allright thanks for clearing that up.


Title: Re: Joe Kidd (1972)
Post by: The Smoker on October 20, 2005, 02:35:42 PM
I'm sure a Hollywood studio was sitting on the distribution rights. Which is why it was never released in the states. Stating they wouldn't release it, because a remake was in the pipeline.
Fox i think.

Actually i think it messed its distribution everywhere. Its 80's re-release in the german cinemas was held as quite an event.


Title: Re: Joe Kidd (1972)
Post by: Tucumcari Bound on June 30, 2008, 07:46:44 PM

For those of you who own "Joe Kid" on DVD...

Should I pick it up? I've heard that there is some scenes cut on the DVD version. Is this true?


Title: Re: Joe Kidd (1972)
Post by: The Firecracker on July 01, 2008, 10:49:48 AM
For those of you who own "Joe Kid" on DVD...

Should I pick it up? I've heard that there is some scenes cut on the DVD version. Is this true?


I don't know if it is cut but the movie isn't up to par with some of the better Eastwood westerns.
I wouldn't waste cash on it.


Title: Re: Joe Kidd (1972)
Post by: mike siegel on July 02, 2008, 02:24:22 AM
LE BON is right, and so is Alex Cox.

We tried to discuss this before in the SILENCE thread,

http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1757.180 (http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1757.180)

Check my postings 192 & 213 on this.

Of course it's not exactly a remake, some of us use that term a bit loose...
I never cared much for that fact except that that arrogance involved (altough I LOVE Eastwood)
prevented US / UK audiences to see SILENZIO back then! 
And for me and other serious collectors it now means: no US / UK memorabilia :(


Title: Re: Joe Kidd (1972)
Post by: moviesceleton on July 20, 2008, 03:30:40 AM
I don't know if it is cut but the movie isn't up to par with some of the better Eastwood westerns.
I wouldn't waste cash on it.
Yeah, it was on the telly last night; nothing special. There's no real drama and there's no real action. The ending shootout was lame. Besides I think it's rather annoying to notice how hard they were trying, at that time, to push Eastwood into that Man with no Name -mold in every western he was in (or then it was Clint himself). What annoys me most is the thing he's got with women. He meets an attractive woman, approaches her but then nothing happens and we see her maybe once more in the movie. She has no other purpose than to be there for that one little scene. Isn't this almost like the "unnecessary romance" -cliche in the old Hollywood westerns? 


Title: Re: Joe Kidd (1972)
Post by: Novecento on July 28, 2009, 05:41:35 PM
Too bad Eastwood withold the film at its initial release from the US/UK,
so no nice English promo-material does exist..

While preparring WHERE EAGLES DARE Eastwood saw the film in Europe. He was so impressed that he bought the English/US-Rights. But unfortunately not to distribute the film but to remake it. The result was JOE KIDD. Yes, no KIDDING :). You still see Silenzio's MAUSER C96 gun. Even their hats look alike. Duvall is the Bounty hunter leader (Kinskis part), Saxon represents the 'outlaws' in the mountains...

I think it's a perfect example of what the Italians were capable of doing in the 60's. SILENZIO became an inspired classic while JOE KIDD is another example of the mediocre (not: bad) US-westerns of the 70's. The secret was to do something really special and not fool around with good ideas (although a silent Eastwood would never have worked. So that 'Special' was totally lost. AND they withhold the film from so many people for ages. Back in the 80's I constantly bugged people in the UK and the US because they never heard of the film and talked big of really 2nd rate Spaghettis which had a bigger release in the US and therefore were known (but not really representative for the good ones).

As for Eastwood, I'm not the only one who knows that. I thought some input here would be welcome, but it seems I better back off before it becomes hostile.

(http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1612/7186524/13731420/236788816.jpg)

He saw it while being busy with WHERE EAGLES DARE in Europe. That one was shot in winter/spring of 68 in Austria. As well as SILENZIO in the Italian mountains some 100 miles away. I was only 8 months back then, don't know what he did on Sundays back then... Maybe he visited old grounds, Cinecitta in Rome, around that time and saw an early screening. A journalist told me 20 years ago Eastwood saw it in London while doing post on WHERE EAGLES and the Italians brought new IW's to town hoping to find distributors/buyers for the UK/US market.

I know people who know him, a couple of more entries and I'm motivated enough to go through the trouble of finding out the whole story... Oh, the book is called CLINT EASTWOOD-HOLLYWOODS LONER by a british film historian, don't know his name right now and the books are in another building... But as I said before, that story isn't unknown at all. My best buddy worked for Corbucci in his later years and although he never saw JOE KIDD he knew that story too.

As for the rest, I could only repeat myself. Eastwood didn't distribute because he didn't aquire the rights to distribute (after all he's not a distributor), but to remake the thing. Not an uncommon practice in the business, buy the thing so nobody will see it while we make it all over again... JOE KIDD has elements, again, it was mentioned before by me.. Sure it's a different film. But Tarantino's remakes look different too, don't they.

Mike, I copied your postings from "The Great Silence" thread cos they were more relevant here.

If you haven't read it already, Alex Cox talks about this issue again in his new book "10,000 Ways to Die." I had never actually heard about this before reading it there.


Title: Re: Joe Kidd (1972)
Post by: Groggy on March 13, 2011, 11:09:05 AM
I saw this a few weeks back. Pretty bland and forgettable, with a few standout bits - I liked the sniper duel late in the film and Clint gets a few nice one-liners.

As for The Great Silence similarities, I don't see it. Maybe the Mauser was included as a homage but there's no similarity in plot or characters.


Title: Re: Joe Kidd (1972)
Post by: tintin on March 17, 2011, 10:29:28 PM
I liked the twisted plot--sort of like the end to "the Professionals"--Kidd  didn't want to simply be a  hired killer.

Also, the anachronism of the aging Kidd--the Mauser Pistol ,etc.  (NOT a "machine pistol"--these were Rare, and had regular magazines). Similar to Wayne's character in "Big Jake", faced with the new Bergman and high-powered, scoped rifle.

Also, the accuracy of the sniper attack on Kidd and Luis Chalma--you see the  muzzle fl;ash, Then a man falls, Then you hear the report. Smokeless powder rifles do this. This is Unlike "Quigley"Down Under", where and old black powder rifle, at 800 yards, would have to be held"off the mark"--it would take 3  seconds for a black powder bullet to reach a target at that distance. Selleck makes it look like no delay at all. Totally bogus.


Title: Re: Joe Kidd (1972)
Post by: Dust Devil on June 04, 2011, 06:05:36 AM
Dull, dull, dull, dull, dull... Just how dull is this movie? No wonder I saw in on TV only once in all these years.

It is mediocre at best, on a good day I'd say. It's thoroughly passionless, though that doesn't come as a surprise I suppose. I really don't understand what were the Americans thinking taking and ruining all those great concepts from various SW like this? It would appear it was okay for them to just fool around with them without a real plan, they must have thought it was enough. Maybe they thought it was... cool?

Eastwood painfully bad here.


4/10


Title: Re: Joe Kidd (1972)
Post by: Dust Devil on June 04, 2011, 06:06:41 AM
And the sad part is that this was actually done in the 70s, not a decade before... What were they thinking?


Title: Re: Joe Kidd (1972)
Post by: Dust Devil on June 04, 2011, 06:11:44 AM
And no: Joe Kidd is a remake of Il Grande Silenzio as much as it is a remake of The Magnificent Seven. It's nonsense, what mike said is probably the truth.

Go home, kid(d).


Title: Re: Joe Kidd (1972)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on May 11, 2012, 11:07:46 AM
Just saw the movie.

I enjoyed the early scenes, and the Western town set (the American town used in the beginning and end, not the Mexican town used in the middle) is absolutely amazing. I read it was done in Old Tuscon; I believe that is where they did LAST TRAIN FROM GUN HILL. It was a great set. So for the beginning and end scenes, this is nice to look at, but that's all. The scenes in the Mexican town were not very interesting.

Nice ending with the train  ;D


Title: Re: Joe Kidd (1972)
Post by: uncknown on September 03, 2014, 03:12:34 PM
I rewatched this having not seen it in years.
Better than I remembered. It is actually quite good up until they reach the Iglesias, then it kinda falls down.

You have to haNd it to Clint: his bad-ass charisma  is so powerful that even a mediocre flick like this holds your attention.
hIS SUIT IS ALSO WAY COOL 8)

fyi Intrada record label has released the soundtrack - finally! It is quite good (sounds like Dirty Harry in places) and contains much music not heard in the film.
bruce marshall


ps i have NEVER, EVER heard the story about THE GREAT SILENCE!!!!


Title: Re: Joe Kidd (1972)
Post by: T.H. on May 18, 2016, 09:23:53 AM
I avoided this for years and years but gave it a shot knowing that any western starring Eastwood written by Elmore Leonard (in whatever capacity) is worth seeing. I would have thrown John Sturges some love as well but his later work isn't up to snuff with the prime stuff.

It definitely exceeded my relatively low expectations. The only fatal flaw is that the movie is way too rushed and the plotting should have been handled more delicately. Usually with movies, it's the adverse, in which 40-60 mins of plot is stretched out into 100+ mins. This could have been much better if they took their time starting from when Eastwood joins up with Duvall and his crew. If I was running a studio, this is the type of movie that I'd remake.

I've known about The Great Silence connections for quite some time, and I honestly didn't see any striking similarities. I think the look of Joe Kidd was probably trying to resemble Silence in some ways but the settings are entirely different, with Kidd obviously lacking snow. On the subject of locations, Lone Pine was used pretty damn well. Sure, not as masterful as the Boetticher movies but it's always nice revisiting that setting.

7/10, probably not worth revisiting but it moves at a breakneck pace and it was entertaining. 


Title: Re: Joe Kidd (1972)
Post by: greenbudgie on April 18, 2017, 07:03:28 AM
I like the photogenic and atmospheric settings in parts of this. My bloodlust was well and truly satisfied as there aren't may left standing by the end of the film. I'm still wondering how Clint Eastwood manoeuvred his way through the lot of them. Good tough guy acting by him and Robert Duvall, John Saxon and Don Stroud.