Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Duck, You Sucker => Topic started by: Leonardo on October 25, 2005, 08:18:28 AM



Title: Villega's torture scene
Post by: Leonardo on October 25, 2005, 08:18:28 AM
A rare still of Villega's torture scene, which as you know has been cut.
(http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/7733/album20carlo20simi2000502013ho.th.jpg) (http://img486.imageshack.us/my.php?image=album20carlo20simi2000502013ho.jpg)

By the way, thanks to Cigar Joe for teaching me how to upload images: I owe you a beer!!!


Title: Re: Villega's torture scene
Post by: Juan Miranda on October 25, 2005, 03:32:49 PM
Twisted nipples. Ouch!


Title: Re: Villega's torture scene
Post by: DJIMBO on October 26, 2005, 06:03:34 PM
man, that would have been a long film in its uncut version with the final flashback and such scenes as these!! ive always thought its the one leone film that drags a bit, sacrreligious as that may be.


Title: Re: Villega's torture scene
Post by: SeanSeanSean on October 28, 2005, 04:50:16 PM
WoW!
Had this scene been included, it would have given us a better understanding. Too bad it was cut. I always thought him as weak, despite his speech about torture in the train with Mallory. Just seeing this pic makes me rethink my opinion of him. A Leone film of this calibre can never be too long for me.


Title: Re: Villega's torture scene
Post by: Juan Miranda on October 29, 2005, 04:37:19 PM
Its a shame it was deleted, in some ways. At the same time, I can see why Leone removed it, and not just for reasons of length. If we saw Villega's torture, then we would have seen him from a privilaged position denied to us with the Warbeck character, therefor judging him in a different way. He would instantly be more sympathetic than John's old Irish friend, who's trauma we can only imagine.

As it is, since most of the film's action is seen through the eyes of Coburn (once he appears in the movie), we should see Romolo Valli and David Warbeck in roughly the same way, and with similar ambiguities.

As it is, Coburn says to Valli that he judged a man just once before. If we saw Valli being tortured and not Warbeck, that line would have become reversed in the audience's point of view, where as we have to see the drama through Coburn's perspective to make his motivations ring true.


Title: Re: Villega's torture scene
Post by: dave jenkins on October 30, 2005, 08:03:18 PM
I take your point, but wouldn't Villega's torture scene also have made us appreciate Warbeck's position more? As you indicate, SL suggests a parallel between Warbeck and Villega; the audience, seeing the torture of one, can infer the torture of the other. True, Mallory witnesses neither, but he is more than just the audience's surrogate. He's had years to think about Warbeck's betrayal and his motivations for it (and to imagine Warbeck being tortured), and when he encounters Villega and *his* betrayal he has days to ponder IT. The audience has scant minutes to take everything in, and it would have therefore been appropriate for SL to use cinematic shorthand to, in effect, bring everybody up to Mallory's level of understanding. SL chose not to do this, of course, but I don't think the film would have suffered had he chosen this option.


Title: Re: Villega's torture scene
Post by: Tim on October 31, 2005, 07:35:12 PM
  I think it would have helped the movie to add this scene although I see what you're saying dave.  I've heard some people complain that DYS is hard to follow so maybe the added scene of Villega's torture would have helped clear things up.

  Maybe this scene/still will be included in the Duck You Sucker special edition when it is released in the US.  I'd love to see it in a photo gallery or something of the sort.


Title: Re: Villega's torture scene
Post by: SeanSeanSean on November 01, 2005, 06:56:28 PM
  ....
  Maybe this scene/still will be included in the Duck You Sucker special edition when it is released in the US.  I'd love to see it in a photo gallery or something of the sort.
Is the DVD coming to America? I'm waiting.


Title: Re: Villega's torture scene
Post by: Juan Miranda on November 01, 2005, 08:49:40 PM
Dunno about the Region 1 release, but there is a stills gallery including a few shots of the this scene on the UK region 2 "restored version" set, and some info about it from Chris Frayling on one of the doccos.

There is also another deleted scene similar to Tuco forcing Blondie to march through the desert in GBU, but with Steiger and his family forcing Coburn to do the same thing. This helps explain Coburn's rather "distressed" condition, when we suddenly see him at night, waiting to blow up a church.

If I had the DVD here I'd post the pictures on the board, but I don't.


Title: Re: Villega's torture scene
Post by: Blueberry on November 03, 2005, 06:29:49 AM
Just watched it yesterday (s.e.) I bought it for the equivalent of 7$ in a supermarket that ran a campaign, a long side the new SE of FFDM. No digipack, though.

Yes there is extensive info on the torture scene - a heavy use of shadows in this scene makes you think of the chinese play in OUATIA. I could live without the scene - and I am having problems seeing the meaning of another desert scene. As is explained on the DVD, one of Juan's boys pisses in some pond John finally finds to drink from. This cruelty would seem kind of out of place after the bonding and initial "understanding" between the two men.

The cutting of these scenes are more of an archeological loss than a dramatic loss, if u know what I mean. We know that Villega has been tortured and broken down when we see him in the car.

The DVD also suggests that it is really John who has betrayed his old time friend (Sean) back in Ireland - partly because he is the one taking over the girl in the final flashback - therefore John is guilt ridden and melancholic - he was the one with blood on his hands - and he will not judge Villega for making the same mistake as he himself did.

That's why the final flashback in its full lenght and the passing of the girl is so important.


Title: Re: Villega's torture scene
Post by: Blueberry on November 03, 2005, 07:12:20 AM

The DVD also suggests that it is really John who has betrayed his old time friend (Sean) back in Ireland - partly because he is the one taking over the girl in the final flashback - therefore John is guilt ridden and melancholic - he was the one with blood on his hands - and he will not judge Villega for making the same mistake as he himself did.

That's why the final flashback in its full lenght and the passing of the girl is so important.

That's an ongoing discussion elsewehere, sorry 'bout that... :-\


Title: Re: Villega's torture scene
Post by: Novecento on July 14, 2012, 06:44:14 AM
A rare still of Villega's torture scene, which as you know has been cut.

Here's another pic:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-p62RbA6Zhho/T6kjDLYvmVI/AAAAAAAAGlA/Vm3e5bwF_6U/s1600/4.jpg


Title: Re: Villega's torture scene
Post by: stanton on July 14, 2012, 11:58:07 AM
I still think that the film needs this scene, at least parts of it, not necessarily the whole painful torture thing.

Instead Leone should have probably skipped half of Giu la testa's first hour.


Title: Re: Villega's torture scene
Post by: Dust Devil on July 15, 2012, 04:59:03 AM

Something smells funky in this topic, Cal.



Why is it requesting passwords and usernames? Some sort of scam?


Title: Re: Villega's torture scene
Post by: Senza on February 24, 2013, 10:44:47 PM
Maybe Mario Brega would've made a cameo here.