Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Other Films => Topic started by: Banjo on October 30, 2005, 05:05:26 AM



Title: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on October 30, 2005, 05:05:26 AM
GOOD(very good or exceptional!)

WILD BUNCH*
HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER
TWO MULES FOR SISTER SARAH
GUNS FOR SAN SEBASTIAN*
LONG RIDERS*
WELCOME TO HARD TIMES
PALE RIDER
RED SUN*
100 RIFLES*
HANG EM HIGH

BAD(but entertaining?)

CHATO'S LAND*
SHALAKO*
EL CONDOR
JOE KIDD

UGLY(little, if any redeeming features!)

TOWN CALLED HELL*
PANCHO VILLA

* indicates where movie is discussed on a  thread elsewhere

Thought it would be fun to start this as an offshoot to Cigar Joes excellent SW guide.
When American westerns were flagging in the early 1960's with few being produced,and TV westerns coming to the fore,Sergio Leone's Fistful of Dollars together with Morricones groundbreaking score rewrote the western rulebook.Along with Leones later films and westerns by his Italian director contempories the whole genre was turned on its head resulting in a major knock-on effect on many future American and (non-Italian)Euro westerns.This new breed of western was coming out with a greater emphasis on (violent) action,a whittling down of dialogue and boring romance and very often the inclusion of an ANTI-hero.
I have included above the movies i feel are spaghetti flavoured in someway whether it is in style eg HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER or WILD BUNCH,filmed in Almeria,Spain eg CHATO'S LAND or TOWN CALLED HELL,contains a Morricone soundtrack eg GUNS FOR SAN SEBASTIAN or TWO MULES FOR SISTER SARAH or maybe just because it  includes a SW megastar eg EL CONDOR or RED SUN.Grey areas don't exist here i'm afraid!
 Where i've placed each individual title doesn't necessarily reflect my opinions and i have refered to any available threads on this site where certain movies have been discussed and i have marked such movie with a star.I haven't yet seen 100 RIFLES or RED SUN but have instead relied on Cigar Joe's write-ups here.
   By no means are each placement set in stone and i'm quite happy to promote/relegate a movie up/down a notch due to any major disagreements.I'm not going to get too hot under the collar for what i consider as secondary to SW's.
I am aware that there must be many ommisions such as HUNTING PARTY or BARQUERO and i will be grateful for as much help as is provided!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on October 30, 2005, 05:30:27 AM
Before anyone says anything,El Condor and (i think) Red Sun were also both filmed in Almeria,but i think you know where i was coming from!!!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on October 30, 2005, 03:14:30 PM
How would you classify "A Man Called Sledge" it should be in this catagory rather than as in Hughes' book as a Spaghetti?


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on October 31, 2005, 02:02:11 AM
I sincerely hope this is a SW otherwise the count of my collection will have to go down by one,hehe.
Seeing that you have included it on your "B" list on the Leone Lovers SW Guide,from which i've tried to make this guide an offshoot,to avoid any confusion i think i'll leave this off here!!
Cigar Joe,i guess you may have seen a few more post-FOD American westerns than myself,and perhaps you could suggest any spaghetti influenced titles i could add  here?


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on October 31, 2005, 04:13:52 AM
Well Vic Morrow director of "A Man Called Sledge" was an actor/director best known for his lead in the TV show Combat, and I guess also for dying in a helicopter accident on the set of the "Twilight Zone" movie.

That why its sort of an odd ball SW it must have been Italian financed.

The only two films not on your list that pop into my head is "Valdez is Comming" with Burt Lancaster, (he's tied to a cross in one sequence) and El Topo a SW influenced buddist mish-mash of a film.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on October 31, 2005, 05:24:51 AM
Cigar Joe,could you suggest where i could place these 2 movies here,because i'm quite happy to make this guide a collective effort?


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on October 31, 2005, 05:52:35 PM
Valdez is Comming would be under Good.

El Topo is an oddball

Parts of El Topo if you could separate them would be Good Bad and Ugly. As a whole probably Bad.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on November 01, 2005, 05:00:18 AM
Thanks for that CJ and i notice you did start an El Topo thread where opinion seems to be divided,but i might just slot it in provisionally as a bad film.I'll update the guide shortly while i'm considering whether i should include any more Eastwood directed westerns or The Professionals from 1966.What do you think?


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on November 01, 2005, 05:16:37 AM
definitely the Professionals , I though it was already on the list  ;D, I always link it with The Wild Bunch.

I think you have all the obvious of Clints, The Outlaw Joesy Wales is more AW of the post SW influenced period. We gradually got back to these PC type films with "authentic" dialoge and "romantic melodrama".

Thankly we have "Deadwood" to keep it real.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on November 01, 2005, 05:28:52 AM
OK CJ, i was thinking the same about Josey Wales but i reckon i'm right to include Pale Rider which bares similarities to his Leone roles.
Haven't seen Deadwood!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on November 05, 2005, 07:25:14 PM
Add Villa Rides to the GOOD, and see it if you can.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on November 06, 2005, 03:16:14 AM
GOOD(very good or exceptional!)

WILD BUNCH*
HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER
TWO MULES FOR SISTER SARAH
GUNS FOR SAN SEBASTIAN*
LONG RIDERS*
WELCOME TO HARD TIMES
PALE RIDER
RED SUN*
100 RIFLES*
HANG EM HIGH
VALDEZ IS COMING
THE PROFESSIONALS
VILLA RIDES*

BAD(but entertaining?)

CHATO'S LAND*
SHALAKO*
EL CONDOR
JOE KIDD
EL TOPO*

UGLY(little, if any redeeming features!)

TOWN CALLED HELL*
PANCHO VILLA

* indicates where movie is discussed on a  thread elsewhere

Thanks Cigar Joe for keeping this new guide up on its legs and i've added on your suggestions.I'm hoping British tv will screen the titles i haven't seen sooner or later but in view of the pending SW season starting tonight i'm not going to complain,yet!
My next door neighbour has just lent to me ITALIAN WESTERN:The Opera of Violence which i've just started reading,great pictures btw,and so far it references the following spaghetti-influenced Amercian westerns:-Will Penny,Big Jake,More Dead Than Alive and Five Savage Men.I'm sure i've seen the first two but can't remember them to rate them but never heard of the other two?
    I'm going to have another look at my video recording of Peckinpahs Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid which was pretty violent i think if a little slow.I watched Major Dundee fairly recently on TV but i think it was pretty American in style.Haven't see any other of Peckinpahs post-FOD westerns  though.
    If anyone else can suggest anymore titles i'll be very happy to add them on to the guide!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on November 14, 2005, 06:50:06 AM
GOOD(very good or exceptional!)

WILD BUNCH(1969,Sam Peckinpah/William Holden)*
HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER(1973,Clint Eastwood/Eastwood)
TWO MULES FOR SISTER SARAH(1970,Siegel/Eastwood)
GUNS FOR SAN SEBASTIAN(1968,H.Verneuil/A.Quinn)*
LONG RIDERS(1980,Walter Hill/David Carradine)*
WELCOME TO HARD TIMES(1967,B.Kennedy/H. Fonda)
PALE RIDER(1985,Clint Eastwood/Eastwood)
RED SUN(1971,Terence Young/Charles Bronson)*
100 RIFLES(1969,Tom Gries/Jim Brown/Burt Reynolds)*
HANG EM HIGH(1968,Ted Post/Clint Eastwood)
VALDEZ IS COMING(1971,E.Sherin/Burt Lancaster)
THE PROFESSIONALS(1966,Richard Brooks/Lee Marvin)
VILLA RIDES(1968,Buzz Kulik/Yul Brynner)*
PAT GARRETT & BILLY THE KID(1973,Peckinpah/Coburn)

BAD(but entertaining?)

CHATO'S LAND(1972 Michael Winner/Charles Bronson)*
SHALAKO(1968,Edward Dymytryk/Sean Connery)*
EL CONDOR(1970,John Guillermin/Jim Brown/Van Cleef)
JOE KIDD(1972,John Sturges/Clint Eastwood)
EL TOPO(1970,A.Jodorowsky/Jodorowsky)*

UGLY(little, if any redeeming features!)

TOWN CALLED HELL(1971,Robert Parrish/Robert Shaw) *
PANCHO VILLA(1972,Eugenio Martin/Telly Savales)

In brackets are original release year,director and star(s).

* indicates where movie is discussed on a  thread elsewhere

In this guide update which now includes original release year of each western,movie director and main star(s),i have added on Sam Peckinpahs Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid on the same grounds as Wild Bunch regarding the violence and new realism of this much hackneyed tale.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on November 21, 2005, 06:16:43 AM
GOOD(very good or exceptional!)

WILD BUNCH(1969,Sam Peckinpah/William Holden)*
HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER(1973,Clint Eastwood/Eastwood)
TWO MULES FOR SISTER SARAH(1970,Siegel/Eastwood)
GUNS FOR SAN SEBASTIAN(1968,H.Verneuil/A.Quinn)*
LONG RIDERS(1980,Walter Hill/David Carradine)*
WELCOME TO HARD TIMES(1967,B.Kennedy/H. Fonda)
PALE RIDER(1985,Clint Eastwood/Eastwood)
RED SUN(1971,Terence Young/Charles Bronson)*
100 RIFLES(1969,Tom Gries/Jim Brown/Burt Reynolds)*
HANG EM HIGH(1968,Ted Post/Clint Eastwood)
VALDEZ IS COMING(1971,E.Sherin/Burt Lancaster)
THE PROFESSIONALS(1966,Richard Brooks/Lee Marvin)*
VILLA RIDES(1968,Buzz Kulik/Yul Brynner)*
PAT GARRETT & BILLY THE KID(1973,Peckinpah/Coburn)
THE DESERTER(1971,Burt Kennedy/Chuck Connors)
WILL PENNY(1968,Tom Gries/Charlton Heston)*

BAD(but entertaining?)

CHATO'S LAND(1972 Michael Winner/Charles Bronson)*
SHALAKO(1968,Edward Dymytryk/Sean Connery)*
EL CONDOR(1970,John Guillermin/Jim Brown/Van Cleef)
JOE KIDD(1972,John Sturges/Clint Eastwood)
EL TOPO(1970,A.Jodorowsky/Jodorowsky)*

UGLY(little, if any redeeming features!)

TOWN CALLED HELL(1971,Robert Parrish/Robert Shaw) *
PANCHO VILLA(1972,Eugenio Martin/Telly Savalas)

UNRATED WESTERNS(help needed-please!!)

BIG JAKE(1971,George Sherman/John Wayne)
MORE DEAD THAN ALIVE(1968,R.Sparr/Clint Waker)
FIVE SAVAGE MEN(1970,Ron Joy/Henry Silva)

In brackets are original release year,director and star(s).

* indicates where movie is discussed on a  thread elsewhere

On Tims suggestion i have today added The Deserter to the "goods" as among other things it was filmed in Almeria.I have been reading Italian Western:An Opera of Violence by Laurence Staig and Tony Williams which cite Will Penny as spaghetti influenced so i've also added this.They also  cite Big Jake(on the strength of Richard Boone wearing a poncho,a villain similar to Bud Spencer and increased use of violence in the opening scene),More Dead Than Alive and Five Savage Men as USA films influenced by SW's.I haven't seen any of these so i have listed them as unrated and anyones assistance here would be greatly appreciated!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Leone Admirer on November 21, 2005, 09:52:36 AM
More of a modern day film but how about P Cosmatos' Tombstone with Kurt Russel, Val Kilmer, Robert Mitchum, Dana Delaney, Charlton Heston, Powers Booth, Micheal Beihn and Bill Paxton. In the R1 Vista series DVD there is a nod to European (presumably spaghetti) films and its (in my opinion) a darn good western. Not amazing but it pushes most of the right buttons.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on November 22, 2005, 01:46:53 AM
So far i've been tending to look at westerns from a certain era but i don't see any reason why i shouldn't include Tombstone(which i haven't seen) if it has an Italian influence.Leone admirer, i also haven't seen The Quick And The Dead,again a more recent western with a purported SW influence-have you and is it any good?


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: HEX on November 22, 2005, 03:53:22 PM
So far i've been tending to look at westerns from a certain era but i don't see any reason why i shouldn't include Tombstone(which i haven't seen) if it has an Italian influence.Leone admirer, i also haven't seen The Quick And The Dead,again a more recent western with a purported SW influence-have you and is it any good?


THE QUICK AND THE DEAD is not for everyone. in the very same way that raimi's EVIL DEAD is not for everyone. it is a very campy film. personally i like some cheese in movies myself. which is why i enjoyed the quick and the dead. there is  a few times the film takes itself seriously for example a scene that is a flashback very much the same as HARMONICA'S flashback in WEST, but other wise it is more of a satire to spag westerns rather than paying tribute to them. but u will have a good time watching it though. is it worth a buy? it depends on youre taste. check out on television first. or rent.


u should see how GENE HACKMAN dies at the end it is so hilarious. he gets shot in the eye and he gets propelled back about ten feet causing him to flip in the air once or twice( ;Dclassic ;D)


which reminds me GENE HACKMEN seems keen on playing a bad guy whenever he is in a western. UNFORGIVEN, THE QUICK AND THE DEAD, there is one more i have heard of that he plays a baddie but i forgot the title.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: HEX on November 22, 2005, 07:50:56 PM
If you mean Eugenio Martin's Pancho Villa, that's Spanish-directed, and Spanish-co-produced, so as "Spaghetti" in pedigree as his Bounty Killer or his other westerns, though not necessarily in feel.

Barquero is considered a very spagh-influenced AW, I haven't seen it, the couple here who have don't like it, but there are SW fans who do (ones with enough taste to not care for Captain Apache, so it's not like they're part of the "Anything with Lee!" bloc).


i did not care much for BARQUERO myself. they play it constantly(or used to) on the ENCORE WESTERNS channel. but thank u for saying that it was an american western, i had always thought it was a spag.
the shining moment of the film is in the very beginning there is a town massacre, and the main villian is sleeping with a wife of a farmer(in the midst of the carnage), the husband comes in and sees what is going on and is immediatly shot by the main baddie. when they have finished with there love making the wife(now widow) asks the baddie if she will be seeing him again, he replies with a "never" and shoots her.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on November 22, 2005, 09:16:51 PM
 :D :D :D  ;D :D :D :D (crazy Spaghetti Western laughter)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on November 22, 2005, 09:29:43 PM
Oh and add "El Condor" to the BAD list.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on November 23, 2005, 05:08:17 AM
Thanks Hex,i'll stick Quick and the Dead under bad for now(when i next update) until i've seen it or if we get some disagreement!
Cigar Joe-El Condors already there!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on November 23, 2005, 08:21:03 AM
Yes but i'm only taking notice from members of this board so the verdicts still fairly open on The Quick and the Dead!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Christopher on November 26, 2005, 04:33:45 PM
Today I watched Day of the Evil Gun starring Glenn Ford, from 1968, and was obviously inspired by SWs. It was on Turner Classic Movies and said before the movie started that it was originally going to be a TV movie but ended up being shown in theaters. It's not a real good movie, but it has its moments I guess.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on November 27, 2005, 01:38:19 AM
Thanks Christopher,i'm kicking myself for not watching this myself but i'll add it on next time i update.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on November 30, 2005, 07:46:47 AM
GOOD(very good or exceptional!)

WILD BUNCH(1969,Sam Peckinpah/William Holden)*
HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER(1973,Clint Eastwood/Eastwood)
TWO MULES FOR SISTER SARAH(1970,Siegel/Eastwood)
GUNS FOR SAN SEBASTIAN(1968,H.Verneuil/A.Quinn)*
LONG RIDERS(1980,Walter Hill/David Carradine)*
WELCOME TO HARD TIMES(1967,B.Kennedy/H. Fonda)
PALE RIDER(1985,Clint Eastwood/Eastwood)
RED SUN(1971,Terence Young/Charles Bronson)*
100 RIFLES(1969,Tom Gries/Jim Brown/Burt Reynolds)*
HANG EM HIGH(1968,Ted Post/Clint Eastwood)
VALDEZ IS COMING(1971,E.Sherin/Burt Lancaster)
THE PROFESSIONALS(1966,Richard Brooks/Lee Marvin)*
VILLA RIDES(1968,Buzz Kulik/Yul Brynner)*
PAT GARRETT & BILLY THE KID(1973,Peckinpah/Coburn)
THE DESERTER(1971,Burt Kennedy/Chuck Connors)
WILL PENNY(1968,Tom Gries/Charlton Heston)*
DAY OF THE EVIL GUN(1968,Jerry Thorpe/Glen Thorpe)
TOMBSTONE(1993,George P.Costmatos,Kurt Russell)

BAD(but entertaining?)

CHATO'S LAND(1972 Michael Winner/Charles Bronson)*
SHALAKO(1968,Edward Dymytryk/Sean Connery)*
EL CONDOR(1970,John Guillermin/Jim Brown/Van Cleef)
JOE KIDD(1972,John Sturges/Clint Eastwood)
EL TOPO(1970,A.Jodorowsky/Jodorowsky)*
QUICK AND THE DEAD(1995,Sam Raimi/Sharon Stone)

UGLY(little, if any redeeming features!)

TOWN CALLED HELL(1971,Robert Parrish/Robert Shaw) *
PANCHO VILLA(1972,Eugenio Martin/Telly Savalas)

UNRATED WESTERNS(help needed-please!!)

BIG JAKE(1971,George Sherman/John Wayne)
MORE DEAD THAN ALIVE(1968,R.Sparr/Clint Waker)
FIVE SAVAGE MEN(1970,Ron Joy/Henry Silva)

In brackets are original release year,director and star(s).

* indicates where movie is discussed on a  thread elsewhere

Many thanks everone for keeping this thing going!!!
I've now added Day Of The Evil Gun and Tombstone to the "goods".The Quick and the Dead seems to have divided views at present so it's "bad-but entertaining".
Think i'll scour through the "other film" archives next for more possibilities!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: HEX on November 30, 2005, 07:58:21 AM
GOOD(very good or exceptional!)

WILD BUNCH(1969,Sam Peckinpah/William Holden)*
HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER(1973,Clint Eastwood/Eastwood)
TWO MULES FOR SISTER SARAH(1970,Siegel/Eastwood)
GUNS FOR SAN SEBASTIAN(1968,H.Verneuil/A.Quinn)*
LONG RIDERS(1980,Walter Hill/David Carradine)*
WELCOME TO HARD TIMES(1967,B.Kennedy/H. Fonda)
PALE RIDER(1985,Clint Eastwood/Eastwood)
RED SUN(1971,Terence Young/Charles Bronson)*
100 RIFLES(1969,Tom Gries/Jim Brown/Burt Reynolds)*
HANG EM HIGH(1968,Ted Post/Clint Eastwood)
VALDEZ IS COMING(1971,E.Sherin/Burt Lancaster)
THE PROFESSIONALS(1966,Richard Brooks/Lee Marvin)*
VILLA RIDES(1968,Buzz Kulik/Yul Brynner)*
PAT GARRETT & BILLY THE KID(1973,Peckinpah/Coburn)
THE DESERTER(1971,Burt Kennedy/Chuck Connors)
WILL PENNY(1968,Tom Gries/Charlton Heston)*
DAY OF THE EVIL GUN(1968,Jerry Thorpe/Glen Thorpe)
TOMBSTONE(1993,George P.Costmatos,Kurt Russell)

BAD(but entertaining?)

CHATO'S LAND(1972 Michael Winner/Charles Bronson)*
SHALAKO(1968,Edward Dymytryk/Sean Connery)*
EL CONDOR(1970,John Guillermin/Jim Brown/Van Cleef)
JOE KIDD(1972,John Sturges/Clint Eastwood)
EL TOPO(1970,A.Jodorowsky/Jodorowsky)*
QUICK AND THE DEAD(1995,Sam Raimi/Sharon Stone)

UGLY(little, if any redeeming features!)

TOWN CALLED HELL(1971,Robert Parrish/Robert Shaw) *
PANCHO VILLA(1972,Eugenio Martin/Telly Savalas)

UNRATED WESTERNS(help needed-please!!)

BIG JAKE(1971,George Sherman/John Wayne)
MORE DEAD THAN ALIVE(1968,R.Sparr/Clint Waker)
FIVE SAVAGE MEN(1970,Ron Joy/Henry Silva)

In brackets are original release year,director and star(s).

* indicates where movie is discussed on a  thread elsewhere

Many thanks everone for keeping this thing going!!!
I've now added Day Of The Evil Gun and Tombstone to the "goods".The Quick and the Dead seems to have divided views at present so it's "bad-but entertaining".
Think i'll scour through the "other film" archives next for more possibilities!


have u seen PALE RIDER? i have always heard it was pure crap so never bothered watching it. but i guess that is no way to say something about a film u have not seen. it comes to my attention that it is pretty much HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER only that EASYWOOD isnt a complete prick.

as for THE QUICK AND THE DEAD i saw it for 9.99 at BEST BUY i think ill pick it up soon. i enjoyed it. i cant speak for any one else.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Christopher on November 30, 2005, 08:26:06 AM
I've always found The Quick and the Dead to be somewhat painful to watch. When I watched God's Gun earlier this year, I realized The Quick and the Dead seems to be mimicking those type of camera moves, rather than someone like Leone. Sam Raimi is paying a homage to bad westerns, I guess. ;D

And speaking of God's Gun, is that really considered a Spaghetti Western? I noticed the director's first name is Frank. ??? Doesn't sound very Italian to me.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: HEX on November 30, 2005, 08:30:42 AM
I've always found The Quick and the Dead to be somewhat painful to watch. When I watched God's Gun earlier this year, I realized The Quick and the Dead seems to be mimicking those type of camera moves, rather than someone like Leone. Sam Raimi is paying a homage to bad westerns, I guess. ;D

And speaking of God's Gun, is that really considered a Spaghetti Western? I noticed the director's first name is Frank. ??? Doesn't sound very Italian to me.

FRANK KRAMER is a pen name. it was an attempt to make the film seem more american(something itailians were keen on the first few years of the spag. frank kramer is the same director for SABATA. i forgot his real name now. i would check on my dvd but the damn thing says FRANK KRAMER on it!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: boardwalk_angel on November 30, 2005, 08:31:08 AM
And speaking of God's Gun, is that really considered a Spaghetti Western? I noticed the director's first name is Frank. ??? Doesn't sound very Italian to me.


God's Gun (Diamante Lobo) was directed by
Gianfranco Parolini.....who had a LOT of aliases  :o

Robert F. Atkinson
John Eastwood
Cehett Grooper
F. Kramer
Frank Kramer
Frank Littleword
Frank Littlewords
J. Francis Littlewords
John Francis Littlewords
G.F. Parolini
John Francis Scott 

My favorite is Cehett Grooper..great name  ;D


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Christopher on November 30, 2005, 08:35:05 AM
John Eastwood? That's hysterical! ;D

I knew that names were changed to make it seem more American to Italian audiences, but I figured most of those would have been changed back. But of course, since this guy made a lot of movies under aliases. From the look of the movie, I had assumed that an American was trying to do the work of an Italian. :D


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: HEX on November 30, 2005, 08:36:32 AM
John Eastwood? That's hysterical! ;D

I knew that names were changed to make it seem more American to Italian audiences, but I figured most of those would have been changed back. But of course, since this guy made a lot of movies under aliases. From the look of the movie, I had assumed that an American was trying to do the work of an Italian. :D


what i dont understand is this film was made in the late seventies. by then itailians have come to grips about the whole lie about youre name thing. why did this guy keep using a fake name? something to do with a contract thing maybe?


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on November 30, 2005, 08:42:12 AM
Hex,i love both High Plains Drifter and Pale Rider.Eastwood maybe less likeable in the former but for most of his actions in the former i think he was completely justified,and what he did with the dwarf character was just brilliant!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: HEX on November 30, 2005, 08:45:52 AM
Hex,i love both High Plains Drifter and Pale Rider.Eastwood maybe less likeable in the former but for most of his actions in the former i think he was completely justified,and what he did with the dwarf character was just brilliant!


yes i agree with u. those town folk got what they deserved. he gave them "hell"( ;D).


but i hear that PALE RIDER is just a (for like of a better word) pale( ;D) sloppy version of DRIFTER.

is this true? and which is better?


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Christopher on November 30, 2005, 08:49:56 AM
I'd say Pale Rider is a combination between Shane and High Plains Drifter. The basic plot is from Shane. That is, if someone wanting the land of all the people in the small town. Obviously, the idea of a gunslinger (or whoever it may be, within whatever genre) coming into a town to save the day has been with us for a long time.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on November 30, 2005, 08:53:37 AM
There are parellels but the Eastwood character(he's unmistakenly a good guy here) and much more involved storyline are certainly not imitations of High Plains Drifter.I'd say go it a go-Eastwood(initially a preacher?)is pure class here and the villains are alot more convincing.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: HEX on November 30, 2005, 08:58:24 AM
There are parellels but the Eastwood character(he's unmistakenly a good guy here) and much more involved storyline are certainly not imitations of High Plains Drifter.I'd say go it a go-Eastwood(initially a preacher?)is pure class here and the villains are alot more convincing.


yes i will give it a try. but i might as well buy it. i cant stand the lousy pan and scan of television. and i have seen some bits of PALE RIDER myself, only a few minutes however, i quickly shut it off because it was in a night scene and i could not see a thing.

have u noticed that night scenes are not well lit in westerns? u normally cant see anything.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Leone Admirer on November 30, 2005, 09:11:07 AM
I'm glad that Tombstone is in the good section, I do enjoy that western. I love Open Range also. The funny thing is, I'm about to watch Back To The Future Part III and I wonder if that is the first example of a main stream film (apart from Part II) that directly referances Leone's films? I bet there were some previously.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 01, 2005, 01:53:25 AM
I'm glad that Tombstone is in the good section, I do enjoy that western. I love Open Range also. The funny thing is, I'm about to watch Back To The Future Part III and I wonder if that is the first example of a main stream film (apart from Part II) that directly referances Leone's films? I bet there were some previously.
There are other references to the SW showdowns including Terence Hill donning a huge stake in a motorcycle showdown in Watch Out We're Mad and in Kellys Heroes(which i haven't seen)  Eastwood is involved in a tank showdown,apparently.
Can anyone else think of other examples in movies other than westerns?

 


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: HEX on December 01, 2005, 12:38:14 PM
There are other references to the SW showdowns including Terence Hill donning a huge stake in a motorcycle showdown in Watch Out We're Mad and in Kellys Heroes(which i haven't seen)  Eastwood is involved in a tank showdown,apparently.
Can anyone else think of other examples in movies other than westerns?

 


a war film called ENEMY AT THE GATES(with JUDE LAW, ED HARRIS and RACHAEL WEISZ :-*) it is mostly about two WW2 sharpshooters who become rivals. one is a russian(LAW as the hero) and a nazi(HARRIS as..well...the villian....not much else for nazi's in the movie buissness ;D). the two face off in many(what can be called) showdowns. and the climax is more apparent to a showdown then the other confrontations.



the film came out in the WW2 movie craze after SAVING PRIVATE RYAN. i can recommend the film it is very well directed and suspenseful.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 02, 2005, 03:20:58 AM
Hex,i just had a thought from one of your posts about the bean eating in the Trinity type films and also the baby farting in Trinity Is Still My Name.
There is the famous scene in Blazing Saddles with the massed baked bean eating and farting and i wonder if you could say this was influenced by the SW's?


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 02, 2005, 06:08:15 AM
I agree with Hex, Enemy At The Gates is an excellent if flawed movie. Blazing Saddles I love that films "He Rode a Blazing Saddle!"


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: HEX on December 02, 2005, 07:42:59 AM
"He Rode a Blazing Saddle!"


he wore a shining star. ;D




BANJO i cant say if BLAZING SADDLES was influenced by sw's. personal in my opinion i dont think so. i think that the bean eating scene was just a coincidence. and i am sure that beans have been eaten in many american westerns. BROOKS was just trying to show what would really happen if these guys ate nothing but beans all day.

since BLAZING SADDLES has been brought up i will take the time to put my two cents in the film real quick. i think the film is wonderfully funny but vastly overated. it has been called  "THE FUNNIEST FILM OF ALL TIME" and i think there are many comedies much funnier than this.
YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN suffers from the same over hyped reviews(but still is a very entertaining film). personally i think MEL BROOKS best comedy was SPACEBALLS(but that might have something to do with me being a STAR WARS nut ;D). it is a shame BROOKS has not been doing anything latley.
it seems that after DRACULA:DEAD AND LOVING IT, he just died off into oblivion there was talk about SPACBALLS 2 about a year ago but it seems as if that slipped through the cracks.

HOLLYWOOD is remaking his film now THE PRODUCERS. which if it does well(which i doubt) that will bring an unslought of other BROOKS remakes (unfortunatly) but hopefully the remakes of his films will force him to come out with SPACBALLS 2.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 04, 2005, 05:57:39 AM
The thing with Brooks is, I didn't realise Anne Bancroft (Mrs Robinson) was his wife till I saw a news announcement on her death   :-[


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 04, 2005, 08:57:57 AM
Didn't know that either.As suggested i perhaps better not include Blazing Saddles on the strength of the farting scene but i'm still not sure about Back to tht Future 3.I think its probably more of a sci-fi than a western,so perhaps not!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 04, 2005, 11:58:56 AM
I see what you mean about BTTF 3, I think it is leaning more to the Sci Fi side but the Western elements are very enjoyable.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Le Bon on December 04, 2005, 02:18:11 PM
I have just thought of one that has definite SW influences. POSSE. Apologies if it has been mentioned on this thread before. Also one from '67 WATERHOLE 3  directed by Blake Edwards. This has James Coburn fighting a duel by waiting for his opponent to get out of pistol range and shooting him down with a Winchester.
HANNIE CAULDER. This revenge style story has an interesting cast Raquel Welch (in poncho) Robert Culp, Christopher Lee, Diana Dors Stephen Boyd, Aldo Sambrell. It also has J. Elam, Strother Martin and E. Borgnine in OUATITW type dusters. Directed by Burt Kennedy with a nice score by Ken Thorne. It's no classic but i would put it in the good section.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 05, 2005, 01:35:29 AM
Le Bon,Posse definately hasn't been mentioned here before and i'd be intrigued to hear a little bit more about this please.
I've never heard of Waterhole 3 either which does sound very interesting especially with Coburn starring.How would you rate this Le Bon?
I'll definately add(when i next update) Hannie Caulder to the "goods" which i understand was also filmed in Almeria.
Le Bon on another thread you mention Hunting Party which i'd also happily add to the guide if i had some feedback about it.Is it any good?


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Le Bon on December 07, 2005, 03:14:24 PM
Banjo, here's my views on the 3 movies mentioned.

WATERHOLE 3. Coburn is the leader of 3 outlaws who rob the Union army of a fortune in gold in this comedy western. Carroll O'Connor, Bruce Dern are also in it. I would have to see this again as my memory is a bit hazy on it.

THE HUNTING PARTY. This has to go in BAD. Violent revenge story about Gene Hackman who goes after the men (led by Oliver Reed) who kidnap and rape his wife (Candice Bergen). The only original thing in this is the Brothel on a train!! Good cast wasted.

POSSE. Mario Van Peebles directed and starred in this one about a group of black infantryman who desert after the US Spanish war. I found this to be too flashy... lots of slow motion and posing, but a lot of people seem to like it. What do other members here think?

I remembered another British western the other day. I think it was called THE BRAVADOS It was made in 1969 and starred Jack Palance. Brits in it were Kate O'Mara and Slyvia Sims.  I will have to check on it.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 08, 2005, 03:45:35 AM
Cheers LeBon i'll add your suggestions on very shortly!!!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 08, 2005, 06:28:28 AM

I remembered another British western the other day. I think it was called THE BRAVADOS It was made in 1969 and starred Jack Palance. Brits in it were Kate O'Mara and Slyvia Sims.  I will have to check on it.

Fox Studio Classics have just released The Bravados on DVD in the UK. I didn't realise it was a Brit Western


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Le Bon on December 08, 2005, 11:37:46 AM
Just checked on IMDB for the movie i mentioned and it is called THE DESPERADOS and is actually a US production. And another brit actor in it is Kenneth Cope hmmm!!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 09, 2005, 01:15:02 AM
I'm interested in any western with Jack Palance in it.I take it he's a bad guy LeBon?


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Le Bon on December 09, 2005, 12:24:52 PM
Well yes he is depicted as the baddy. He plays the leader of a band of confederates out for revenge. His three sons eventually have enough of this and turn against the obsessed Palance.
banjo have you seen MONTE WALSH with Palance and Lee Marvin.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 10, 2005, 01:33:49 AM
The only westerns i've seen with Palance are the Mercenary,Companeros,Chato's Land,Can Be Done Amigo and Gods Gun.The last two of these are decidedly less than good, but i would love to see Shane again which i can hardly remember!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 10, 2005, 05:08:53 AM
I have just re-read the ten page chapter on They Call Me Trinity in Howard Hughes "Once Upon A Time In The Italian West"-my SW bible-and it includes the following excerpt about the sequel Trinity Is Still My Name:-
"the action includes gunrunning monks,farting babies,comic card games,Trinity and Bambino's appalling
table manners in a fancy French eating house and a grandstand finale that descends into a riotous game of American football.This irreverent humour reappeared to great success in Mel Brooks BLAZING SADDLES"
I haven't seen Blazing Saddles for a while but apart from the farting scene i remember a totally mad OTT ending and based on Hughes assessment i have decided to include Blazing Saddles afterall when i next update!!!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: titoli on December 10, 2005, 05:17:12 AM
Apart from the farting scene didn't like the movie. but, true, I saw it dubbed, which means I didn't see it at all. Still I wonder how this wasn't impressed in mind:


http://www.imdb.com/gallery/mptv/1258/Mptv/1258/3306_0318.jpg?path=gallery&path_key=0071230


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 10, 2005, 06:44:51 AM
GOOD(very good or exceptional!)

WILD BUNCH(1969,Sam Peckinpah/William Holden)*
HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER(1973,Clint Eastwood/Eastwood)
TWO MULES FOR SISTER SARAH(1970,Siegel/Eastwood)
GUNS FOR SAN SEBASTIAN(1968,H.Verneuil/A.Quinn)*
LONG RIDERS(1980,Walter Hill/David Carradine)*
WELCOME TO HARD TIMES(1967,B.Kennedy/H. Fonda)
PALE RIDER(1985,Clint Eastwood/Eastwood)
RED SUN(1971,Terence Young/Charles Bronson)*
100 RIFLES(1969,Tom Gries/Jim Brown/Burt Reynolds)*
HANG EM HIGH(1968,Ted Post/Clint Eastwood)
VALDEZ IS COMING(1971,E.Sherin/Burt Lancaster)
THE PROFESSIONALS(1966,Richard Brooks/Lee Marvin)*
VILLA RIDES(1968,Buzz Kulik/Yul Brynner)*
PAT GARRETT & BILLY THE KID(1973,Peckinpah/Coburn)
THE DESERTER(1971,Burt Kennedy/Chuck Connors)
WILL PENNY(1968,Tom Gries/Charlton Heston)*
DAY OF THE EVIL GUN(1968,Jerry Thorpe/Glen Thorpe)
TOMBSTONE(1993,George P.Costmatos,Kurt Russell)
POSSE(1993,Mario Van Peebles/Mario Van Peebles)
WATERHOLE 3(1967,William A.Graham/James Coburn)
HANNIE CAULDER(1971,Burt Kennedy/Raquel Welch)
BLAZING SADDLES(1974,Mel Brooks/Cleavon Little)

BAD(but entertaining?)

CHATO'S LAND(1972 Michael Winner/Charles Bronson)*
SHALAKO(1968,Edward Dymytryk/Sean Connery)*
EL CONDOR(1970,John Guillermin/Jim Brown/Van Cleef)
JOE KIDD(1972,John Sturges/Clint Eastwood)
EL TOPO(1970,A.Jodorowsky/Jodorowsky)*
QUICK AND THE DEAD(1995,Sam Raimi/Sharon Stone)*
HUNTING PARTY(1971,Don Medford/Oliver Reed)

UGLY(little, if any redeeming features!)

TOWN CALLED HELL(1971,Robert Parrish/Robert Shaw) *
PANCHO VILLA(1972,Eugenio Martin/Telly Savalas)

UNRATED WESTERNS(help needed-please!!)

BIG JAKE(1971,George Sherman/John Wayne)
MORE DEAD THAN ALIVE(1968,R.Sparr/Clint Waker)
FIVE SAVAGE MEN(1970,Ron Joy/Henry Silva)

In brackets are original release year,director and star(s).

* indicates where movie is discussed on a  thread elsewhere

Thanks LeBon i've added on your suggestions but have provisionally inserted Waterhole 3 amongst the "goods" until we have some more feedback-imdb.com rates this 6.1 out of 10 btw.
Have also added Blazing Saddles for reasons stated 2 posts above.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 10, 2005, 07:53:18 AM
Just to ask you banjo, are you a big fan of classic Hollywood westerns by directors such as Ford, Mann, Hawks and Curtiz?


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 10, 2005, 08:19:51 AM
I'm not sure if i've seen or got anything by Curtiz-i'm probably not so observant as you when taking note of the director of every film i watch.Ford did all those John Wayne classics Searchers,Liberty Valance,Stagecoach etc which i've liked since i was a kid.I can only think of the Naked Gun with James Stewart for Anthony Mann which is pretty good.Didn't Howard Hawkes do Rio Bravo and Rio Lobo with John Wayne-both quite enjoyable.I'm afraid that my knowledge of the US western is lacking a bit ,as i tend to put all my interest in the more exciting SW's!   


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 10, 2005, 08:25:17 AM
Your right about Hawks, he did Rio Bravo and he liked the story so much he remade it twice, the second time called El Doraldo with Wayne and Robert Mitchum and then with Rio Lobo. Curtiz did the excellent Dodge City starring Errol Flynn and can be bought on R1 from Warners for a very good price or part of their Flynn boxset. Mann's Stewart Westerns are excelelnt. Check out Winchester '73, The Man From Laramie (my personal face) Bend of the River and The Far Country which I belive Universal have just released on R2 DVD.  Shane is also another excellent western whose ending brings you to tears.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 10, 2005, 09:03:54 AM
I really want to see Shane again soon if only to see Jack Palance as the bad guy,c'mon BBC or ITV!
I reckon if you like Manns psychological westerns then you'd probably like Carlo Lizzani's Hills Run Red(i don't think this is on your SW list) and i've read about comparisons of Lizzani's movie with Manns.I'm pretty sure that Marco did a good write up of Hills Run Red and its in Howard Hughes personal top 10.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 10, 2005, 09:28:02 AM
You've just added it to the list banjo, thanks muchly  ;D


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 10, 2005, 09:48:17 AM
I think there's a Japanese widescreen dvd available with which i intend to replace my crappy quality DVDr taped off USA TCM-the cheek of it!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on December 11, 2005, 09:05:19 AM
Didn't notice this on the list but Bandolero (1968) with James Stewart, Dean Martin, Burt Kennedy, and Raquel Welch was very SW influenced. Check it out it. Probably would be in the Good-Bad range.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 11, 2005, 09:14:11 AM
Great stuff Cigar Joe.Lets have some more!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 11, 2005, 09:16:13 AM
I meant to pick up Bandolero a while back when it was released as part of the Fox Studio Classics, I bought the Wayne boxset instead.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 11, 2005, 09:20:57 AM
What do you think of Peckinpahs movies Leone Admirer?


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 11, 2005, 12:30:08 PM
I'm a big fan of Peckinpah with my fave being The Wild Bunch. I got to see the showing of the extended cut of Major Dundee at the LFF this year, and it apparently was going to be the last time that version was ever going to be shown. I'm really looking forward to the Peckinpah Westerns released by Warners next year.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Le Bon on December 11, 2005, 01:43:02 PM
A couple of US westerns that i would say were SW influenced are Dirty little Billy with Michael J. Pollard as Billy the Kid and Robert Altmans McCabe and Mrs Miller with Warren Beatty & Julie Christie. More in the way of realism... muddy streets and a snowbound location for McCabe, than shootouts. I would put both in the good section.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on December 11, 2005, 04:50:42 PM
I'll agree with McCabe & Mrs Miller & Dirty Little Billy.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 12, 2005, 03:41:26 AM
Good stuff CJ and LeBon.
Leone Admirer,Major Dundee was on ITV recently and although very good i didn't think it had any SW influences like Wild Bunch and Pat Garrett.I hear they changed the music in the new Major Dundee which probably wasn't a bad idea-was it an improvement?
I haven't seen any Peckinpah after Pat Garrett but from the TCM Docu i watched a while ago one or two titles look interesting!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 12, 2005, 04:35:24 AM
The music and the scenes were an improvement. The thing I found quite interesting was at the screening, every one went in really excited and when the head of restoration at Sony (Crispin Glover) arrived to introduce the film there was applause etc. At the end of the film it was like the life had been sucked out of the audience. Everyone just murmed and shuffled out. Completely opposite to The Great Silence when the audience engaged with the film from begining to end. I however really enjoyed Major Dundee.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 12, 2005, 06:27:46 AM
Its funny that because the Great Silence has a very downbeat(though admittedly powerful) ending and as beautiful a movie it is i have to be in the right mood ,therefore it hasn't had that many viewings.However,I just love the opening credits and also the wagon travelling through the blizzard both to the accompaniment of that Morricone masterpiece.
     There has been alot of excitement over the new Major Dundee and perhaps for many people its proved to be a bit of an anti-climax!
      While on the subject of Peckinpah i really like Cross of Iron,again very downbeat but a great anti-war movie and the battle of wits between James Coburn and Maximilian Schell is very gripping.However i think Coburn should have shot Schell at the end instead of compelling him to earn his Iron Cross legitimately.I like to think that Coburn put a bullet in his head once the end credits had stopped rolling!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 12, 2005, 07:09:30 AM
And you say you have to be in the right mood for The Great Silence.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 12, 2005, 08:00:12 AM
Well i don't normally keep too many downbeat movies on tape for long because the missus dislikes them and i only put on Cross of Iron about once a year mainly because of Coburn.
For an actor as great as Coburn its a shame there doesn't seem to be too much on the net about him and i would like to see some more movies that he excells in.From memory i have Ride Lonesome(i think he's in this!),The Great Escape,the Derek Flint movies,DYS,Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid,Cross of Iron,Magnificent 7 and i'm sure the odd cameo in a more recent movie.My favourite
Coburn performance is undoubtably Sean in DYS ,including the Irish accent,and it has been my quest to find him in another role that matches this!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 12, 2005, 08:08:37 AM
An early and quite enjoyable film with Coburn is The Americanisation Of Emily. It also stars Julie Andrews. I thought I would hate it when I first saw it, but in the end I rather enjoyed it.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 12, 2005, 08:27:41 AM
Yeau i do remember that title from a biography program(lots of good stuff like his association with Bruce Lee in the 60's) on Sky before i cancelled with them,but i'm sure this hasn't been on the telly since.Hopefully ITV4 will be showing other genre films from the 60's and 70's apart from SW and the odd horror!!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Tim on December 12, 2005, 09:19:23 PM
  Banjo, if you're looking for an early Coburn role check out Hell is for Heroes.  He plays Cpl. Henshaw, a mechanics wiz who has some good moments.

  Also, look out for Hard Times.  It stars Coburn and Charles Bronson.  Bronson is a tough street fighter and Coburn is great as his manager.

  Not to get off topic, but gotta help fellow movie lovers out when possible.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 13, 2005, 08:43:15 AM
Cheers Tim,don't worry about the topic,i started it!!!
I was flicking through the channels last night to find Bronson,Steiger(i think) and Henry Silva(excellent SW villain in Hills Run Red) all in the same movie,Love and Bullets.I didn't stick with it in the hope that ITV4 may repeat iy soon.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 19, 2005, 07:55:09 AM
GOOD(very good or exceptional!)

WILD BUNCH(1969,Sam Peckinpah/William Holden)*
HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER(1973,Clint Eastwood/Eastwood)
TWO MULES FOR SISTER SARAH(1970,Siegel/Eastwood)
GUNS FOR SAN SEBASTIAN(1968,H.Verneuil/A.Quinn)*
LONG RIDERS(1980,Walter Hill/David Carradine)*
WELCOME TO HARD TIMES(1967,B.Kennedy/H. Fonda)
PALE RIDER(1985,Clint Eastwood/Eastwood)
RED SUN(1971,Terence Young/Charles Bronson)*
100 RIFLES(1969,Tom Gries/Jim Brown/Burt Reynolds)*
HANG EM HIGH(1968,Ted Post/Clint Eastwood)
VALDEZ IS COMING(1971,E.Sherin/Burt Lancaster)
THE PROFESSIONALS(1966,Richard Brooks/Lee Marvin)*
VILLA RIDES(1968,Buzz Kulik/Yul Brynner)*
PAT GARRETT & BILLY THE KID(1973,Peckinpah/Coburn)
THE DESERTER(1971,Burt Kennedy/Chuck Connors)
WILL PENNY(1968,Tom Gries/Charlton Heston)*
DAY OF THE EVIL GUN(1968,Jerry Thorpe/Glen Thorpe)
TOMBSTONE(1993,George P.Costmatos,Kurt Russell)
POSSE(1993,Mario Van Peebles/Mario Van Peebles)
WATERHOLE 3(1967,William A.Graham/James Coburn)
HANNIE CAULDER(1971,Burt Kennedy/Raquel Welch)
BLAZING SADDLES(1974,Mel Brooks/Cleavon Little)
DOLLAR FOR THE DEAD(1998,G.Quintano/Emilio Estevez)
BANDOLERO(1968,Andrew McLaglen/James Stewart)
DIRTY LITTLE BILLY(1972,Stan Dragoti/Michael J.Pollard)
McCABE & MRS MILLER(1971,R. Altman/Warren Beatty)
EL TOPO(1970,A.Jodorowsky/Jodorowsky)*

BAD(but entertaining?)

CHATO'S LAND(1972 Michael Winner/Charles Bronson)*
SHALAKO(1968,Edward Dymytryk/Sean Connery)*
EL CONDOR(1970,John Guillermin/Jim Brown/Van Cleef)
JOE KIDD(1972,John Sturges/Clint Eastwood)

QUICK AND THE DEAD(1995,Sam Raimi/Sharon Stone)*
HUNTING PARTY(1971,Don Medford/Oliver Reed)

UGLY(little, if any redeeming features!)

TOWN CALLED HELL(1971,Robert Parrish/Robert Shaw) *
PANCHO VILLA(1972,Eugenio Martin/Telly Savalas)

UNRATED WESTERNS(help needed-please!!)

BIG JAKE(1971,George Sherman/John Wayne)
MORE DEAD THAN ALIVE(1968,R.Sparr/Clint Waker)
FIVE SAVAGE MEN(1970,Ron Joy/Henry Silva)

In brackets are original release year,director and star(s).

* indicates where movie is discussed on a  thread elsewhere

Thought its about time i updated with your suggestions,thanks guys.The "goods" now include Dollar for the Dead,Bandolero,Dirty Little Billy and McCabe & Mrs Miller.
Has anybody seen Cannon for Cordoba(1970) starring George Peppard and filmed in Almeria,and is it any good?


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: The Smoker on December 19, 2005, 06:01:04 PM
*cough* Still not happy about El Topo in the bad section.  ::) But if you were serving it up as a western, its probably a poor specimen.
Now if this was a 'best location/scenery' list it would kick seven bells out of most the films up there.  ;)

Anyone read Peckinpahs views on it? Theres a little interview in the Criterion Straw Dogs booklet. He brushes on it as an example how not to portray violence in films, in the defence of his own The Wild Bunch and other fortays.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 20, 2005, 05:37:18 AM
Cigar Joe suggested El Topo as probably bad and on looking at the various views on the El Topo thread CJ started  it doesn't appear to be decisively thumbs up or down.I haven't seen this so i'm not overly concerned but at least it's being acknowledged as entertaining.
However if we get any further positive feedback about El Topo i'll be happy to promote it to the goods!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on December 20, 2005, 06:08:46 AM
El Topo is great when it stays somewhat SW once in goes into its Trancendental Meditation?Buddist Monk section it become less.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 20, 2005, 07:24:02 AM
OK Cigar Joe i've now edited the guide to include EL Topo as "good".Whatever its merits i've just got to see this movie!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Le Bon on December 21, 2005, 12:30:56 PM
For everyone in the UK - HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER is on ITV tonight, well thurs morning actually, at 3.15am.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 21, 2005, 12:34:50 PM
thanks for the heads up Le Bon  :)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 21, 2005, 12:52:02 PM
Cheers Le Bon,time once again to set the video and tape over my pan & scan version!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 22, 2005, 04:05:04 PM
Cheers Le Bon,time once again to set the video and tape over my pan & scan version!
I wish i hadn't bothered-checked my new recording earlier on only to find out it was the sign-language version of High Plains Drifter-Bugger!!!
I might have to get the DVD now!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Le Bon on December 22, 2005, 04:33:58 PM
I actually didn't bother to tape it as i have a widescreen vhs (part of a box set with 2 mules, Beguiled,  and Joe Kidd). I have been meaning to upgrade it to dvd but not the new repackaged one with the scan cover.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 23, 2005, 06:40:41 AM
I wish i hadn't bothered-checked my new recording earlier on only to find out it was the sign-language version of High Plains Drifter-Bugger!!!
I might have to get the DVD now!

I've been noticing that recently banjo that ITV seemed to be showing Clint's films late night Pan & Scanned with sign langauge. I've never seen them do that before.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 23, 2005, 07:24:26 AM
I was totally pissed off when i sat down to watch High Plains Drifter yesterday having taped over a perfectly decent pan & scan recording which i've had for years.
I had a look at my TV guide and yes it was marked "S/L" so we'll have to look out for this in future.
I don't mind buying a repackaged High Plains Drifter so long as the actual quality of the film print isn't affected-but i notice that there aren't any special features apart from the trailer-the meanies!!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 23, 2005, 07:29:28 AM
I would still recomend buying the R2, Play.com are having a western sale at the moment will films as low as £3.99 so it may be worth looking around in there for bargains.  :)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 23, 2005, 07:49:49 AM
Leone Admirer does it ever bother you that the Region 2 DVD's run at a very slightly quicker running time than the American Region 1's .I have noticed this when playing my SE DYS DVD where the music especially seems slightly rushed which i can only put down to my listening of the Gui La Testa CD quite a lot which i guess plays at the correct but slower speed! 


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 23, 2005, 07:56:32 AM
Yes, that is called PAL speed up. US TV's run on a different set up called NTSC which gives a lower picture resolution, when converting an NTSC source to PAL, the film is often sped up so that it gives a higher picture quality but also speeds up the sound. This can be corrected but often its not. This is a very basic explanation which a more technical person can sort out (I basically understand it but when I habe to do a NTSC to PAL conversion or vice a versa the bods in the transfer room do it for me)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 23, 2005, 08:07:00 AM
That probably explains that when i try and play along with a movie soundtrack on my guitar  i am never in tune and have to tighten up the machine heads to correct this.
I've got the Region 1 SE's of GBU and OUATITW and they are both disernably slower than my old PAL taped versions.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on December 26, 2005, 08:07:38 AM
Just noticed that The Professionals,including Claudia Cardinale and Jack Palance,is on Channel 4 at 3.05pm this afternoon.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on December 26, 2005, 05:05:43 PM
enjoy


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on June 19, 2006, 02:05:34 AM
GOOD(very good or exceptional!)

WILD BUNCH(1969,Sam Peckinpah/William Holden)*
HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER(1973,Clint Eastwood/Eastwood)
TWO MULES FOR SISTER SARAH(1970,Siegel/Eastwood)
GUNS FOR SAN SEBASTIAN(1968,H.Verneuil/A.Quinn)*
LONG RIDERS(1980,Walter Hill/David Carradine)*
WELCOME TO HARD TIMES(1967,B.Kennedy/H. Fonda)
PALE RIDER(1985,Clint Eastwood/Eastwood)
RED SUN(1971,Terence Young/Charles Bronson)*
100 RIFLES(1969,Tom Gries/Jim Brown/Burt Reynolds)*
HANG EM HIGH(1968,Ted Post/Clint Eastwood)
VALDEZ IS COMING(1971,E.Sherin/Burt Lancaster)
THE PROFESSIONALS(1966,Richard Brooks/Lee Marvin)*
VILLA RIDES(1968,Buzz Kulik/Yul Brynner)*
PAT GARRETT & BILLY THE KID(1973,Peckinpah/Coburn)
THE DESERTER(1971,Burt Kennedy/Chuck Connors)
WILL PENNY(1968,Tom Gries/Charlton Heston)*
HUNTING PARTY(1971,Don Medford/Oliver Reed)*

BAD(but entertaining?)

CHATO'S LAND(1972 Michael Winner/Charles Bronson)*
SHALAKO(1968,Edward Dymytryk/Sean Connery)*
EL CONDOR(1970,John Guillermin/Jim Brown/Van Cleef)
JOE KIDD(1972,John Sturges/Clint Eastwood)
EL TOPO(1970,A.Jodorowsky/Jodorowsky)*

UGLY(little, if any redeeming features!)

TOWN CALLED HELL(1971,Robert Parrish/Robert Shaw) *
PANCHO VILLA(1972,Eugenio Martin/Telly Savalas)

UNRATED WESTERNS(help needed-please!!)

BIG JAKE(1971,George Sherman/John Wayne)
MORE DEAD THAN ALIVE(1968,R.Sparr/Clint Waker)
FIVE SAVAGE MEN(1970,Ron Joy/Henry Silva)

In brackets are original release year,director and star(s).

* indicates where movie is discussed on a  thread elsewhere

CJ's just given Hunting Party a thumbs up so i've now added that to the "goods".I've just received Barquero in the post so that'll be put up somewhere soon.I'm also looking forward to receiving a cheap vhs of the Deserter :)

I'd forgotten Wild Bunch and Pat Garrett were there amongst the "goods"-whose idea was that? ;D ;D
Oh well if thats what the majority think ::)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on June 19, 2006, 09:16:01 AM
My rather knackered 2nd hand video tape of The Deserter arrived today,i've watched it and i have to say i'm disappointed.From the photo stills in one of my western books this movie looks alot like The Professionals and like that excellent movie most of the all-star cast(including Woody Strode,Richard Crenna,Chuck Connors,Slim Pickens) have a specialist skill in order to take on a band of murderous Apaches but a unsatisfactory  good proportion of this western "dirty dozen" cop it in accidents before the climax of the movie when they ambush the Apaches.The star of the movie Bekin Fehmiu(who?) is totally unconvincing as the "deserter" character who as a Union Captain in the beginning of the movie has to mercifally shoot his wife who has been totally skinned alive,he is let down by his regiment so overnight he becomes this invincible but unlikeable Chuck Norris type vigilante who unbelievably can overpower even the mighty Woody Strode in a fight.
  The only reason this movie can warrant an inclusion here is that it was filmed in Almeria but really there isn't the slightest thing about it i'd call spaghettiesque apart from Patrick Waynes facial appearance who with the elongated moustache and sideburns strongly resembles Franco Nero in Companeros.A very American western and a pretty mediocre one at that!
    I'm gonna demote this to the "bads" when i next update and i strongly recommend for this type of "mission impossible" western both The Professionals and Five Man Army would be a much better choice.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Tim on June 22, 2006, 11:57:12 PM
  Sorry to hear you didn't like Deserter, Banjo.  I'll admit it isn't the greatest western, but I love that huge cast and that quirky musical score.  Sounds like a jazz lounge from the late 60s or early 70s.

  As for Fehmiu, I agree, he wasn't the right guy for the part.  But Pickens, Connors, Strode, Crenna, and the rest of the supporting cast make up for Fehmiu, at least for me.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on June 23, 2006, 03:46:18 AM
Well i'd be happy to leave it amongst the "goods" but Boardwalk Angel told me in a pm she didn't have a high opinion of the Deserter either.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: franksgrandson on June 27, 2006, 05:40:06 PM
I think a fine movie to be added to the good is The Last Hard Men with Heston and Coburn Coburn certainly put the feel of a Spag into his effort and I liked the gritty dirty nature of the movie it was a basic western carried well by two great actors


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on June 28, 2006, 03:24:12 AM
Cheers for that FranksGrandson-one to add when i next update.
Just got Thomas Weissers "The Good The Bad & The Violent" which has a large list of  spaghetti-influenced westerns that i'll be looking into.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: The Firecracker on July 04, 2006, 03:04:29 PM
Banjo, have you mentioned "Bite The Bullet" with gene Hackman and James Coburn?


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on August 19, 2006, 10:16:48 AM
I liked this one it should be moved up to good banjo, its not a gunfight Western but its good in its subcategory.


Chato's Land (1972) Dir. Michale Winner. Charles Bronson, Jack Palance, and a stable of very familiar character and TV actors,  Richard Basehart, Simon Oakland, Ralph Waite, and Victor French.

Shot in Almeria, with familiar landscapes, and some new ones. The setting is either West Texas or New Mexico, it never specifies, but there may be clues in the townsequences that I haven't caught.

Its that subcategory of Western that you'd call  a chase/manhunt.

Bronson looking cool as a half breed Apache Pardon Chato is acosted by a white sherrif in a saloon who says basicall in close to these words "no red niggers alowed to drink in here". Chato ignores the man. He moves around behind a stoic Chato and pulls his gun but Chato spins around and drops him. Chato leaves town.

The leading citizens of the town (Texas Hollywood) get ex Confederate Captain Quincey Whitmore to gather up some of his former soldiers and able men from the local ranches to hunt down Chato and hang him.

Plalance who dons his old CSA uniform tunic and hat out of a trunk is great in this role, he turns from a deterimed pursuer to a man concerened for his men once Chato turns the table on him, he is hampered by the blood lust of Jubal Hooker (Simon Oakland) who's blinded by revenge.

This film does a good job of depicting Natives and living off the land in desert environment. I thoroughly enjoyed the film. Its brutal and violent and unfortunately the R1 version is cut of a rape, and a shot through the hand from what I've heard. But its still that good and Bronson is impeccabe.

If you are going to collect Bronson Westerns these are my picks so far, OUTITW, Villa Rides, Red Sun, Chato's Land.

Fieldings score is adequate, but this is one aspect that probably 95% of Westerns suffer from.

Light years better than Shalako, it remindes me of "The Hunting Party" that I also picked up recently, thumbs up from me. 


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Tim on August 19, 2006, 11:06:49 AM
Quote
If you are going to collect Bronson Westerns these are my picks so far, OUTITW, Villa Rides, Red Sun, Chato's Land.

  No Vera Cruz?  Or are we going for the bigger roles? :D


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on August 19, 2006, 12:08:57 PM
I don't think I've seen Vera Cruz for 30 years don't remember much about it or even that Bronson was in it.

Yes I'm thinking larger roles though Mag 7 could be on that list.  8)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on August 20, 2006, 03:28:07 AM
Banjo, have you mentioned "Bite The Bullet" with gene Hackman and James Coburn?
Any good? ::)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on August 20, 2006, 03:31:44 AM
I liked this one it should be moved up to good banjo, its not a gunfight Western but its good in its subcategory.
I like that one too CJ and i may just do that!
Scalphunter's on the the television in the UK this afternoon so i'm going to give that a look,plus i'm looking forward to seeing Villa Rides which i taped last weekend :)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: The Firecracker on August 20, 2006, 01:06:37 PM
Any good? ::)


Not sure I thought you had seen it. Supposed to be excellent.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on August 21, 2006, 02:27:29 AM
No! :o
Like a dumbass i got dragged out on an after dinner walk yesterday and didn't set the vcr for Scalphunters >:( Still theres always  next time ;D


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on August 21, 2006, 05:20:59 AM
Quote
I like that one too CJ and i may just do that!

Was the version you saw uncut, I know there was some horse falls so I'd assume they would be but was Chato's woman shown raped and staked out on the ground? The R1 version has her raped in Chato's hut and then brought out wrapped in a blanket and staked to the ground.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on August 21, 2006, 06:24:40 AM
I taped it off the television CJ,and as far as i can remember it has all the sordid details in it.What with the Deathwish films Michael Winner seemed to delight in that sort of content didn't he?


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on August 21, 2006, 06:53:45 AM
yea he did, on IMDb they describe two versions filmed, the R1, and the international version.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on August 22, 2006, 02:59:29 AM
Well there was enough unsavoury content in Chato's Land to upset Mrs Banjo-and i can safely say we won't be getting Hunting Party ;D


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: The Firecracker on August 22, 2006, 11:28:17 AM
No! :o
Like a dumbass i got dragged out on an after dinner walk yesterday and didn't set the vcr for Scalphunters >:( Still theres always  next time ;D


 >:(


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on August 22, 2006, 05:24:10 PM
Don't make me feel any worse-i looked forward to that film all flipping week as well :-\


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on August 26, 2006, 05:43:25 AM
GOOD(very good or exceptional!)

WILD BUNCH(1969,Sam Peckinpah/William Holden)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1127.0
HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER(1973,Clint Eastwood/Eastwood)
TWO MULES FOR SISTER SARAH(1970,Siegel/Eastwood)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=3718.0
GUNS FOR SAN SEBASTIAN(1968,H.Verneuil/A.Quinn)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1809.0
LONG RIDERS(1980,Walter Hill/David Carradine)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=2374.0
WELCOME TO HARD TIMES(1967,B.Kennedy/H. Fonda)
PALE RIDER(1985,Clint Eastwood/Eastwood)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=2303.0
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1515.0
RED SUN(1971,Terence Young/Charles Bronson)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1354.0
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=777.0
100 RIFLES(1969,Tom Gries/Jim Brown/Burt Reynolds)*
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1545.0
HANG EM HIGH(1968,Ted Post/Clint Eastwood)
VALDEZ IS COMING(1971,E.Sherin/Burt Lancaster)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=3905.0
THE PROFESSIONALS(1966,Richard Brooks/Lee Marvin)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=2602.0
VILLA RIDES(1968,Buzz Kulik/Yul Brynner)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=2534.0
PAT GARRETT & BILLY THE KID(1973,Peckinpah/Coburn)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=2837.0
WILL PENNY(1968,Tom Gries/Charlton Heston)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1910.0
HUNTING PARTY(1971,Don Medford/Oliver Reed)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=3555.0
CHATO'S LAND(1972 Michael Winner/Charles Bronson)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1340.0
SCALPHUNTERS(1968 Sidney Pollack/Burt Lancaster)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=2865.0
LAWMAN(1971,Michael Winner/Burt Lancaster)

BAD(but entertaining?)

BIG JAKE(1971,George Sherman/John Wayne)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=4001.0
SHALAKO(1968,Edward Dymytryk/Sean Connery)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1262.0
EL CONDOR(1970,John Guillermin/Jim Brown/Van Cleef)
JOE KIDD(1972,John Sturges/Clint Eastwood)
EL TOPO(1970,A.Jodorowsky/Jodorowsky)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1754.0
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=4157.0
THE DESERTER(1971,Burt Kennedy/Chuck Connors)
DOLLAR FOR THE DEAD(1998,G.Quintano,E.Estevez)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=2727.0

UGLY(little, if any redeeming features!)

TOWN CALLED HELL(1971,Robert Parrish/Robert Shaw)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=2168.0
PANCHO VILLA(1972,Eugenio Martin/Telly Savalas)

UNRATED WESTERNS(help needed-please!!)

MORE DEAD THAN ALIVE(1968,R.Sparr/Clint Waker)
FIVE SAVAGE MEN(1970,Ron Joy/Henry Silva)

In brackets are original release year,director and star(s).

Due to puvblic demand i've now promoted Chato's Land to the "goods" plus i've added  Scalphunters to the same category.
Thanks to Cigar Joe i can put Big Jake in amongst the "bads" ;)



Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: The Firecracker on August 29, 2006, 06:17:29 PM

FIVE SAVAGE MEN(1970,Ron Joy/Henry Silva)

I own this Banjo...only...I dont plan to see it any time soon :-\

looks a bit dodgy.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on August 31, 2006, 04:12:09 AM
We could do with one or two new "ugly"s ;D

TV reviewers in the UK,Sunday 3rd September is a good night for Euro westerns!
Lawman is on BBC2 at 11.25pm-1.00am and Valdez Is Coming is on ITV4 at 11.00pm -12.50am so you might need two VCR's? ::)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: boardwalk_angel on August 31, 2006, 05:48:34 AM
I wouldn't include WILL PENNY as Leone or spaghetti influenced....not at all.
A fine Western...one of my favorites....severely underappreciated....but there's no pasta in it. ;)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on August 31, 2006, 07:34:32 AM
I wouldn't include WILL PENNY as Leone or spaghetti influenced....not at all.
A fine Western...one of my favorites....severely underappreciated....but there's no pasta in it. ;)
With me being slightly lazy and not checking back through this thread i can't remember why i included Will Penny.However in Weissers book which i only picked up a couple of months ago-he includes it in a similar themed list.Maybe for violence? ::) - i still haven't seen this.Has anyone else seen Will Penny that can comment on its inclusion?


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on August 31, 2006, 07:39:46 AM
Here we are,this is from my posting very early in this thread:-
"I have been reading Italian Western:An Opera of Violence by Laurence Staig and Tony Williams which cite Will Penny as spaghetti influenced so i've also added this."
   I can't remember if they backed up this comment or not-it was a book borrowed from the library.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: boardwalk_angel on August 31, 2006, 08:19:44 AM
Here we are,this is from my posting very early in this thread:-
Will Penny as spaghetti influenced 

I see "Will Penny" as a direct descendant of earlier American Westerns...but with a large dose of "this is how it really was".......if anything..a bit of Peckinpah found its way into it...



Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on September 03, 2006, 04:31:10 AM
I see "Will Penny" as a direct descendant of earlier American Westerns...but with a large dose of "this is how it really was".......if anything..a bit of Peckinpah found its way into it...


Well i'll be taking a look at Will Penny fairly soon ;) .I've just edited the last update to relegate The Deserter to tha "bads"-very disappointing overall.
It really is a Burt Lancaster western night on TV today with Ulzana's Raid showing as well as Valdez Is Coming and Lawman :)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on September 13, 2006, 07:37:41 AM
GOOD(very good or exceptional!)

WILD BUNCH(1969,Sam Peckinpah/William Holden)*
HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER(1973,Clint Eastwood/Eastwood)
TWO MULES FOR SISTER SARAH(1970,Siegel/Eastwood)
GUNS FOR SAN SEBASTIAN(1968,H.Verneuil/A.Quinn)*
LONG RIDERS(1980,Walter Hill/David Carradine)*
WELCOME TO HARD TIMES(1967,B.Kennedy/H. Fonda)
PALE RIDER(1985,Clint Eastwood/Eastwood)*
RED SUN(1971,Terence Young/Charles Bronson)*
100 RIFLES(1969,Tom Gries/Jim Brown/Burt Reynolds)*
HANG EM HIGH(1968,Ted Post/Clint Eastwood)
VALDEZ IS COMING(1971,E.Sherin/Burt Lancaster)
THE PROFESSIONALS(1966,Richard Brooks/Lee Marvin)*
VILLA RIDES(1968,Buzz Kulik/Yul Brynner)*
PAT GARRETT & BILLY THE KID(1973,Peckinpah/Coburn)
WILL PENNY(1968,Tom Gries/Charlton Heston)*
HUNTING PARTY(1971,Don Medford/Oliver Reed)*
CHATO'S LAND(1972 Michael Winner/Charles Bronson)*
SCALPHUNTERS(1968 Sidney Pollack/Burt Lancaster)*
LAWMAN(1971,Michael Winner/Burt Lancaster)

BAD(but entertaining?)

BIG JAKE(1971,George Sherman/John Wayne)*
SHALAKO(1968,Edward Dymytryk/Sean Connery)*
EL CONDOR(1970,John Guillermin/Jim Brown/Van Cleef)
JOE KIDD(1972,John Sturges/Clint Eastwood)
EL TOPO(1970,A.Jodorowsky/Jodorowsky)*
THE DESERTER(1971,Burt Kennedy/Chuck Connors)
DOLLAR FOR THE DEAD(1998,G.Quintano,E.Estevez)

UGLY(little, if any redeeming features!)

TOWN CALLED HELL(1971,Robert Parrish/Robert Shaw) *
PANCHO VILLA(1972,Eugenio Martin/Telly Savalas)

UNRATED WESTERNS(help needed-please!!)

MORE DEAD THAN ALIVE(1968,R.Sparr/Clint Waker)
FIVE SAVAGE MEN(1970,Ron Joy/Henry Silva)

In brackets are original release year,director and star(s).

* indicates where movie is discussed on a  thread elsewhere

Last weekend,I managed to knock 3 "almost sw's" off my wanted list -Villa Rides,Lawman and Dollar For The Dead.
Villa Rides is a big budget blockbuster with a few familiar sw faces but  i would honestly have to say i was a bit disappointed-Yul Brynner(who i hugely admire as Chris in Mag 7 and also Indio Black(Sabata) just wasn't right as Poncho Villa donning a silly wig and lacking his usual charisma-in fact he was well upstaged by Charles Bronson playing his ruthless right hand man.I've seen Robert Mitchums performance of the bi-plane flying mercenary described as "sleepwalking" in a couple of places and thats exactly how i saw it-his part was dull,dull,DULL!!
There are some excellent battle set pieces but the rest of it seems to be bogged down with too much waffle about either Huerta moaning about Villa,Villa boring us about Madero etc etc,but i think theres still enough decent  content to keep Villa Rides among the goods.
    I've seen Lawman suggested as sw influenced in various places and judging by the violence administered by Burt Lancaster(definately an anti-hero type) as the stubborn Marshall insisting on bringing to trial a gang of thugs who have shot up a town resulting in a fatality i can see why.Lee J Cobb(the thugs are his men)  is great as the big landowner who owns all the town and surrounding land  who attempts to bribe Lancaster but as his men are slowly jailed/killed off by the Lawman he eventually decides to resort to the wicked ways of old to deadly effect!An excellent suspenseful western ;)
    Finally Dollar For The Dead which is meant as some tribute to Leone but i don't think it was too much cop so i say "bad,but entertaining".Emilio Estevez is the anti-hero here but with too many bad memories of the brat pack Young Guns films i find him hard to accept as a credible anti-hero-much too young and pretty and he ain't got the voice.Laughably his 6 shooter is more like a 60 shooter as he spends much of the movie somersaulting spectacularly as he continuely guns down literally dozens of bad guys in one fell swoop without  once reloading ::). Having said that the story of hidden gold which can only be found by matching together four gun holsters to complete a map is good fun.Theres all the usual close ups and camera tricks you'd expect with the odd Morricone-like pastiche in the bachground but this film never really looks or feels like a sw.Do what i did and wait for it to come on the tv! :) 


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: The Firecracker on September 14, 2006, 09:23:38 PM

EL TOPO(1970,A.Jodorowsky/Jodorowsky)*


"El Topo" on the "bad"? This is a good film. Perhaps not exceptional but a good one.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on September 14, 2006, 10:05:20 PM
Its very SW, Jawordowski has his iconography down pat too bad he just didn't make it a Western.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: The Firecracker on September 15, 2006, 11:12:54 AM
Its very SW, Jawordowski has his iconography down pat too bad he just didn't make it a Western.

The first half is more of a western then say..."Django Kill".


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on September 15, 2006, 03:33:59 PM

"El Topo" on the "bad"? This is a good film. Perhaps not exceptional but a good one.
Theres a separate thread for this movie(i'd love to see this myself of course ;) ) where opinions are divided but maybe i'll take another look.
I'm gonna update this guide soon to provide links on this forum for all the titles that have been discussed in more detail:)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: The Firecracker on September 15, 2006, 08:17:18 PM
(i'd love to see this myself of course ;) )


 ;)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Sanjuro on September 15, 2006, 11:12:07 PM
I don't think listing "El Topo" as a bad spaghetti influenced western does justice either. It's not meant to be a western. In fact, it cannot be framed as a genre film. It has its own unique place. It's one of Jodorowsky's best. If it's not a masterpiece, it's certainly a wonderfully bold allegory.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: The Firecracker on September 15, 2006, 11:24:02 PM
I don't think listing "El Topo" as a bad spaghetti influenced western does justice either. It's not meant to be a western. In fact, it cannot be framed as a genre film. It has its own unique place. It's one of Jodorowsky's best. If it's not a masterpiece, it's certainly a wonderfully bold allegory.

I would place it as an art film...but it does have a western motif..It should be a sub-genre picture...


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Sanjuro on September 15, 2006, 11:38:42 PM
I would place it as an art film...but it does have a western motif..It should be a sub-genre picture...

How about "Saturday Night Movie"? ;D

Jodowsky's "Santa Sangre" has a Psycho-like thriller motif, still it stands on a very unique horizon like rest of his films. 


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: The Firecracker on September 16, 2006, 11:59:33 AM
How about "Saturday Night Movie"? ;D

Jodowsky's "Santa Sangre" has a Psycho-like thriller motif, still it stands on a very unique horizon like rest of his films. 

Haven't seen them...have you seen "Holy Mountain"? It's supposed to be a companion piece to "El Topo" (That's what I've been told).


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: The Peacemaker on September 16, 2006, 12:06:27 PM
It's supposed to be a companion piece to "El Topo"

What's a companion piece?


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: The Firecracker on September 16, 2006, 12:10:25 PM
What's a companion piece?

a film that is very similar to another film usually made by the same director.

Like...

"Companeros" and "The Mercenary".


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: The Peacemaker on September 16, 2006, 12:15:56 PM
a film that is very similar to another film usually made by the same director.

Like...

"Companeros" and "The Mercenary".

Oh, I see.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on September 17, 2006, 09:08:54 AM
I would place it as an art film...but it does have a western motif..It should be a sub-genre picture...
Despite not having seen it yet i'm happy to include El Topo.Weisser includes it in a similar list and i've seen references to it being a "weird sort of western" in a couple of other places including Hughes latest book about sw's.
Looks like i may have to promote this to the "goods" when i next update by which time hopefully i'll have seen it too eh Firecracker? ::)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: The Firecracker on September 17, 2006, 01:32:13 PM
"weird sort of western"

That title would fit for the first hour and twelve minutes.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on September 17, 2006, 07:36:29 PM
If it would have stayed a wierd little western it would be one of the greats, he really had the iconography down,  8).


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: The Firecracker on September 17, 2006, 09:16:19 PM
If it would have stayed a wierd little western it would be one of the greats, he really had the iconography down,  8).

agreed. He even surpassed quite a few pictures in the genre in just that first hour.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Sanjuro on September 17, 2006, 10:12:45 PM
Haven't seen them...have you seen "Holy Mountain"? It's supposed to be a companion piece to "El Topo" (That's what I've been told).

Thematically yes, "Holly Mountain" can be described as a companion to "El Topo". "Holly Mountain" is more of political, social and religious satire. You should see this too. It's a flood of amazing images. I was overwhelmed when I saw the hero being surrounded by thousands of Jesuses.   


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Sanjuro on September 17, 2006, 10:31:48 PM
And oh, speaking of companion, Jodowsky made a film that is a companion to "Lawrence of Arabia". Well, sort of. It's called "The Rainbow Thief". Now old Peter O'toole and Omar Scharif live in a sewer under a town of Poland!!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on September 18, 2006, 07:36:01 PM
My local Video rental has a Jodorowski Section (Alternative Video's of Woodstock, lol ) , Sante Sangre, and The Holy Mountian Fando Y Lis too, and probably The Rainbow Thief. I should check them out. 8)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Sanjuro on September 19, 2006, 12:11:28 AM
My local Video rental has a Jodorowski Section (Alternative Video's of Woodstock, lol ) , Sante Sangre, and The Holy Mountian Fando Y Lis too, and probably The Rainbow Thief. I should check them out. 8)

"The Rainbow Thief" is a fun film while it's not one of his best.  Have you seen "Santa Sangre"? I love this film. 



Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on September 19, 2006, 08:57:10 PM
Sante Sangre, No, but I'll have to check it out.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on September 23, 2006, 05:48:56 AM
I think "The Train Robbers" has to go into this catagory, SW influences, and some surrealistic images. Its on again today AMC will have to see it all the way through.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on September 24, 2006, 02:08:54 AM
Thanks Cigar Joe,i'll update fairly soon to include this ;)
 I just won Cannon For Cordoba off Ebay which is a sw influenced -filmed in Almeria-big budget blockbuster starring George Peppard and Giovana Ralli(Columba in the Mercenary) so i'm looking forward to seeing this one.
    In A Pictorial History Of Westerns, Michael Parkinson suggests that A Gunfight(with Kirk Douglas and Johnny Cash) has sw influences.Anyone seen this? ::)     


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on September 24, 2006, 07:16:59 AM
Quote
In A Pictorial History Of Westerns, Michael Parkinson suggests that A Gunfight(with Kirk Douglas and Johnny Cash) has sw influences.Anyone seen this?     


no, haven't seen it, we seem to always get a rerun rotation of the same old same old Westerns, the "Dollars" films is great of course, a couple of John Wayne's better films, then a whole slew of cheapie Republic Pictures early Wayne's amd etc., a few Jimmy Stewart/Mann films, and not a whole lot else. There is a whole lot of 70's  American Westerns that you just don't see at all on regular cable, for some strange reason.

I think Bandolero should probably go on your list too of SW influenced films.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Sanjuro on September 24, 2006, 08:01:20 PM
Thanks Cigar Joe,i'll update fairly soon to include this ;)
 I just won Cannon For Cordoba off Ebay which is a sw influenced -filmed in Almeria-big budget blockbuster starring George Peppard and Giovana Ralli(Columba in the Mercenary) so i'm looking forward to seeing this one.
     

I've seen "Cannon for Cordoba" years ago. It is called "The Fortress of Condor" in Japan. It is like Corbucchi's Mexican revolutionary adventure films. But it was not as impressive as Corbucchi's films though it's entertaining. The film has no personal touch of the director (Paul Wendkos). No distinctive flavor. It was like eating pasta at a restaurant that is not authentic. 


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: The Firecracker on September 24, 2006, 10:11:11 PM


 There is a whole lot of 70's  American Westerns that you just don't see at all on regular cable, for some strange reason.


"Bite The Bullet" was on recently...always miss it.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on September 25, 2006, 04:23:36 AM
I think Bandolero should probably go on your list too of SW influenced films.
Good,bad or ugly? ::)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on September 25, 2006, 06:06:51 AM
Bandolero is probably in the goods, its got a lot of SW touches, (even has a saddle bag of money hooked up in the air by a building like FAFDM). Jimmy Stewart, Dean Martin, George Kenedy, Raquel Welch, not a bad cast.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Tim on September 25, 2006, 08:46:16 AM
Quote
Good,bad or ugly?

  Bandolero is definitely a "good."  Agree with all that cigar joe said, and it has an ending I wouldn't be surprised to see in a spaghetti.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on September 26, 2006, 05:42:06 AM
I've seen "Cannon for Cordoba" years ago. It is called "The Fortress of Condor" in Japan. It is like Corbucchi's Mexican revolutionary adventure films. But it was not as impressive as Corbucchi's films though it's entertaining. The film has no personal touch of the director (Paul Wendkos). No distinctive flavor. It was like eating pasta at a restaurant that is not authentic. 
My video arrived this morning so i'll give this a look later today.Do i take it you'd consider this "good" or merely "bad,but entertaining"?


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Sanjuro on September 26, 2006, 09:22:31 AM
My video arrived this morning so i'll give this a look later today.Do i take it you'd consider this "good" or merely "bad,but entertaining"?

You be the judge, banjo.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on September 27, 2006, 05:21:46 AM
You be the judge, banjo.
Well this is a democratic thread and i like to take into account all opinions before deciding on whether a western is good,bad or ugly.I'm also quite prone to changing my mind about movies ::)
Didn't get a chance yesterday but i'll look at it soon.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Sanjuro on September 27, 2006, 09:33:08 AM
Well this is a democratic thread and i like to take into account all opinions before deciding on whether a western is good,bad or ugly.I'm also quite prone to changing my mind about movies ::)
Didn't get a chance yesterday but i'll look at it soon.

If my opinion counts too, is there rating between "good" and "bad"?


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on September 28, 2006, 06:57:06 AM
If my opinion counts too
Certainly does!
I watched it yesterday and enjoyed it very much but i agree it is a pale immitation of Corbucci's Revolution trilogy.I really like the slimy Cordoba character who i recognise as the mafia boss from the original(and best!) Italian Job.George Peppard was ok as the cigar chomping leader of the gang hired to capture Cordoba and destroy his cannons,but there was also some good support from Pete Duel(of Alias Smith and Jones fame-a cheeky hippy-like dude) and the excellent Giovanna Ralli who you are never quite sure of where her allegiances lie.I've seen better but i liked the action sequences :)
   Sanjuro's assessment is on the button-maybe a bad(but entertaining) verdict but perhaps i'll give it another look before i update ::)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on September 29, 2006, 03:20:06 AM
GOOD(very good or exceptional!)

WILD BUNCH(1969,Sam Peckinpah/William Holden)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1127.0
HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER(1973,Clint Eastwood/Eastwood)
TWO MULES FOR SISTER SARAH(1970,Siegel/Eastwood)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=3718.0
GUNS FOR SAN SEBASTIAN(1968,H.Verneuil/A.Quinn)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1809.0
LONG RIDERS(1980,Walter Hill/David Carradine)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=2374.0
WELCOME TO HARD TIMES(1967,B.Kennedy/H. Fonda)
PALE RIDER(1985,Clint Eastwood/Eastwood)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=2303.0
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1515.0
RED SUN(1971,Terence Young/Charles Bronson)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1354.0
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=777.0
100 RIFLES(1969,Tom Gries/Jim Brown/Burt Reynolds)*
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1545.0
HANG EM HIGH(1968,Ted Post/Clint Eastwood)
VALDEZ IS COMING(1971,E.Sherin/Burt Lancaster)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=3905.0
THE PROFESSIONALS(1966,Richard Brooks/Lee Marvin)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=2602.0
VILLA RIDES(1968,Buzz Kulik/Yul Brynner)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=2534.0
PAT GARRETT & BILLY THE KID(1973,Peckinpah/Coburn)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=2837.0
WILL PENNY(1968,Tom Gries/Charlton Heston)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1910.0
HUNTING PARTY(1971,Don Medford/Oliver Reed)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=3555.0
CHATO'S LAND(1972 Michael Winner/Charles Bronson)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1340.0
SCALPHUNTERS(1968 Sidney Pollack/Burt Lancaster)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=2865.0
LAWMAN(1971,Michael Winner/Burt Lancaster)
BANDOLERO!(1968,Andrew McLaglen/James Stewart)
EL TOPO(1970,A.Jodorowsky/Jodorowsky)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1754.0
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=4157.0

BAD(but entertaining?)

BIG JAKE(1971,George Sherman/John Wayne)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=4001.0
SHALAKO(1968,Edward Dymytryk/Sean Connery)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1262.0
EL CONDOR(1970,John Guillermin/Jim Brown/Van Cleef)
JOE KIDD(1972,John Sturges/Clint Eastwood)
THE DESERTER(1971,Burt Kennedy/Chuck Connors)
DOLLAR FOR THE DEAD(1998,G.Quintano,E.Estevez)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=2727.0
CANNON FOR CORDOBA(1970,P Wendkos/G Peppard)

UGLY(little, if any redeeming features!)

TOWN CALLED HELL(1971,Robert Parrish/Robert Shaw)
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=2168.0
PANCHO VILLA(1972,Eugenio Martin/Telly Savalas)

UNRATED WESTERNS(help needed-please!!)

MORE DEAD THAN ALIVE(1968,R.Sparr/Clint Waker)
FIVE SAVAGE MEN(1970,Ron Joy/Henry Silva)

In brackets are original release year,director and star(s).

As requested I've promoted El Topo to the "goods" though i'm still waiting to see this very shortly and also i've added Bandolero! to the same category.
With a slight reluctance i've slotted in Cannon For Cordoba (for now) in amongst the "bad,but entertaining's" but i actually enjoyed this more than say Villa Rides :-\
Cigar Joe where should i put Train Robbers? ::)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on September 29, 2006, 08:02:11 PM
Train Robbers Bad and Tedious ;D


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on September 30, 2006, 01:36:25 AM
Train Robbers Bad and Tedious ;D
Then we now have a 3rd entry in the "ugly" category if its not even entertaining ;D


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: boardwalk_angel on September 30, 2006, 02:59:52 AM
I would add Silvio Narizzano's Blue (1968) to the "Good".....an exceptional first 1/3.......an OK middle.........and a good final 1/3.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on September 30, 2006, 09:16:19 AM
Thanks BA thats one of quite of few from Weissers Euro Western list that i've been meaning to ask about here. ;)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on October 01, 2006, 07:16:42 AM
I would add Silvio Narizzano's Blue (1968) to the "Good".....an exceptional first 1/3.......an OK middle.........and a good final 1/3.
Hey i overlooked i've actually got this film but haven't watched it yet :-[
Will rectify shortly ;)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: boardwalk_angel on October 01, 2006, 08:28:59 AM
The way it struck me was.........the first part was very spaghetti influenced.......the middle section returned to more of an American Western feel...& the last part was like a blend of the two.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on October 28, 2006, 07:11:35 PM
Doc (1971) into the bad.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on October 29, 2006, 06:09:17 AM
Thanks CJ,i'll do that after i've watched Blue very shortly.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: boardwalk_angel on October 29, 2006, 06:33:07 AM
You might consider dropping Will Penny from the list altogether...if anything --> more (somewhat) Peckinpah influenced than anything else; & adding The Proposition (the opening scene, for example, recalls Spaghetti Westerns immediately for even casual fans of the genre) to the "Good" category.
Make your own call, of course..after viewing them.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on October 30, 2006, 01:31:30 AM
Even though that well renowned sw "expert" Thomas Weisser has it on "Anglo Counterparts" list? ;D On seconds thoughts i'll take your advice Boardwalk Angel and make my own conclusions ;)
Yes i must watch The Proposition myself very soon. :)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on October 31, 2006, 02:57:08 AM
I watched Will Penny last night and i agree this is very American in style and the very long section with Heston recovering from his wounds aided by the woman and child wouldn't have featured in your typical sw.Will Penny predates Peckinpahs Wild Bunch but was made after Major Dundee(which i can't remember all that well) so i'm not sure how he comes into the equation here.
  The only  sw influences that occur to me is the violent scene involving Hestons knife wounding and torture,and of course the black poncho he wears at the start of the film.
  Other than the seemingly less than wise Mr Weisser,Will Penny was also referenced in  Italian Westerns:The Opera Of Violence by Laurence Staig and Tony Williams.However i've made this thread more to do with members of this forums opinions rather than outside influences.I don't have a problem with removing Will Penny when i next update but i'd be interested if anyone else had an opinion about this.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: boardwalk_angel on October 31, 2006, 03:45:51 AM
Will Penny predates Peckinpahs Wild Bunch but was made after Major Dundee(which i can't remember all that well) so i'm not sure how he comes into the equation here.

Yes...not a strong link..but an echo of "Ride the High Country"; as I referred to in my review-->
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1910.msg16755#msg16755
...there's an echo of the theme of the passing of the old west...& the Quint family recalls the Hammond Brothers..somewhat.




Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on November 02, 2006, 05:08:32 AM
Very spot on review of Will Penny BA though for my tastes a tad too slow and downbeat but a good film all the same.Unless someone else thinks i should keep Will Penny in,i'll drop it from the list on the next update .People will be able to see it was considered but maybe not quite spaghetti enough!  :-\
    My next stop is Blue ;)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on November 04, 2006, 07:10:22 AM
Buck & the Preacher (1972) fits between Good and Bad but Entertaining. lol.


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on November 04, 2006, 07:40:18 AM
I hadn't heard of that movie but thanks again CJ  and also for your many reviews i've put links to with  this thread ;)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: cigar joe on November 14, 2006, 05:00:55 AM
Lawman (1971) Its got that dark SW feel great bloody  action sequences, and a character (Lancaster) playing way against type, I think its definitely got the SW influence, in the "Good".  :)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on November 15, 2006, 06:53:21 AM
Glad we agree,and i'll be linking yor review to this thread ;)


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on January 10, 2007, 05:58:58 PM
I've seen "Cannon for Cordoba" years ago. It is called "The Fortress of Condor" in Japan. It is like Corbucchi's Mexican revolutionary adventure films. But it was not as impressive as Corbucchi's films though it's entertaining. The film has no personal touch of the director (Paul Wendkos). No distinctive flavor. It was like eating pasta at a restaurant that is not authentic. 
Haven't got the TV guide at hand but i notice that the Bravo UK sattelite channel are starting to show this.Its well worth checking out.
Apologises for not updating this thread (linking review threads etc)recently which will be rectified shortly.
  BTW i think EL Topo should be in the "uglies" but hey thats democracy for ya!


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on January 16, 2007, 01:42:21 PM
I would add Silvio Narizzano's Blue (1968) to the "Good".....an exceptional first 1/3.......an OK middle.........and a good final 1/3.
Started watching this tonight-its excellent so far O0


Title: Re: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns
Post by: Banjo on January 20, 2007, 09:08:52 AM
Hannie Caulder starring among others Raquel Welch and Christopher Lee is on ITV4 next week at (i think) 10pm.Alongside Shalako and Chino(which i've been meaning to record off sattelite tv).In his guide Weisser includes Hannie Caulder as a "spaghetti western" but like those other 2 i'm sure its only a "Euro".
As regards Blue i would like to echo BA's opinion (excellent!)and this will definately be amongst the "goods" shortly despite Terence Stamp's dodgy American accent!