Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Duck, You Sucker => Topic started by: Banjo on November 21, 2005, 09:00:54 AM



Title: Region 2 DVD 6 or 3 seconds of cuts?
Post by: Banjo on November 21, 2005, 09:00:54 AM
I've been meaning to ask this for awhile but has anybody else apart from me played the DVD SE version in synch with the version screened on BBC2.I did this because i wanted to see what i was missing in respect of the much touted horse fall cuts of 6 seconds.Both my dvd player and VCR are Panasonic and with use of the pause buttons i pretty much got the movies in synch from the beginning give or take a tenth of a second and up to the point at the bridge where the alleged cuts take place by continually clicking buttons on my TV remote  the two versions were still almost exactly in synch.However after the carnage had finished  there was only a 3 second discrepancy which i've checked and re-checked.So i have concluded that either the BBC2 version was missing 3 seconds to start with or the reviewers got it wrong about the 6 seconds and there are in fact 3 seconds of cuts.Either way the film does not suffer in anyway from this tampering.
 I also noticed a small discrepancy in the versions when Juan is put up against the wall to be shot.In the DVD Sean calls out "Duck you sucker" from behind the wall but on the BBC2 version he calls out the more effective "Short Fuse!".
Obviously the BBC2 version misses out the beautiful flashback ending which makes the DVD version such a must buy!!!       


Title: Re: Region 2 DVD 6 or 3 seconds of cuts?
Post by: The Smoker on November 21, 2005, 02:53:46 PM
Yeah 'Short fuse' is on the original R2 DVD release from 2003.


Title: Re: Region 2 DVD 6 or 3 seconds of cuts?
Post by: dave jenkins on November 21, 2005, 04:18:58 PM
"Short fuse" is also on the MGM LD from '96.


Title: Re: Region 2 DVD 6 or 3 seconds of cuts?
Post by: The Smoker on November 21, 2005, 04:25:30 PM
Not to deviate to much from Banjo's original question.

Dave, dosn't the 1996 LD have a different end line by Juan, something to do with a swear word?


Title: Re: Region 2 DVD 6 or 3 seconds of cuts?
Post by: dave jenkins on November 21, 2005, 10:07:40 PM
I don't think so. My memory is that he asks "What about me?" I'll check, though.


Title: Re: Region 2 DVD 6 or 3 seconds of cuts?
Post by: uncknown on November 22, 2005, 01:28:18 PM
Not to deviate to much from Banjo's original question.

Dave, dosn't the 1996 LD have a different end line by Juan, something to do with a swear word?

The USA ld left out "what about me?" and the DUCK YOU SUCKER title. Caught the end of DYS on cable last nite and the complete flashback was restored.
I saw DYS on it's first run US release. If my memory serves me the final flashback was slightly shorter, possibly ending  wtih Sean kissing his girl at the tree. I definitely do not remember  the final cloes-up of Sean smiling.


Title: Re: Region 2 DVD 6 or 3 seconds of cuts?
Post by: The Smoker on November 23, 2005, 11:20:11 AM
The End flashback. Actually theres no mention of its existance or purpose in a shooting script. It didn't make an appearance in a film print until 1996 instergated by Claver Salizzato.


Title: Re: Region 2 DVD 6 or 3 seconds of cuts?
Post by: dave jenkins on November 23, 2005, 04:19:48 PM
And yet it was shot, and synched with the music, and works beautifully.....


Title: Re: Region 2 DVD 6 or 3 seconds of cuts?
Post by: Juan Miranda on November 23, 2005, 05:57:08 PM
The End flashback. Actually theres no mention of its existance or purpose in a shooting script. It didn't make an appearance in a film print until 1996 instergated by Claver Salizzato.


Forgive me if I'm being a bit dense here, and miss-reading some of the above. The very first time I saw this film was on a panned and scanned print late one night on STV (Scottish Tele-Vision) way back in the late '70's (or very early 80's). It had the full proper menage a' trois flashback and Juan whining "What about me?" with the title spinning from his face. 

I was so struck by this that over the following years, as various other cut versions (all panned and scanned of course) showed up on telly, I actually began to think I had dreamed my first viewing, until the restored DVD appeared, and read up on the subject. I had even used the "Whaddabout me?" line as a catchphrase in high school for a bit, so I can date it fairly well.

If I saw this version back in (roughly) 1979, how can you say that the end flashback didn't exist until 1996?


Title: Re: Region 2 DVD 6 or 3 seconds of cuts?
Post by: The Smoker on November 27, 2005, 06:04:22 AM
Well information is clouded on the subject. Maybe it was just first appearance in a Roma cinema release.


Title: Re: Region 2 DVD 6 or 3 seconds of cuts?
Post by: Half Soldier on November 29, 2005, 11:01:20 AM
Juan, I definitely remember the longer flashback version shown on TV in the UK pre-1990.  For a long time I thought I must have imagined it or 'consumed' a bit too much on that first viewing.


Title: Re: Region 2 DVD 6 or 3 seconds of cuts?
Post by: KevMc on December 18, 2005, 03:19:30 PM
I distinctly remember the first time I saw the film - it was a Friday night screening on BBC1 in Sep.'88. It definately had the short (30 sec.) flashback at the end. The BBC next showed it over Christmas '89 as part of a Leone season which was a tribute to the recently deceased great man. It again contained the short flashback.

As I understand it, this version - 138 min NTSC/ 132min PAL - was the general release version, and the only version available in the UK & US until the restoration in the mid-nineties. However, it's not inconceivable that a European print containing the longer flashback found its way onto British TV prior to this. But to say that a final flashback never appeared until the restoration is just plain wrong. If I have misunderstood the previous post, that seemed to suggest this was the case, I apologize in advance.


Title: Re: Region 2 DVD 6 or 3 seconds of cuts?
Post by: coburn on December 18, 2005, 11:37:00 PM
I voted for Duck you Sucker!


Title: Re: Region 2 DVD 6 or 3 seconds of cuts?
Post by: dave jenkins on December 19, 2005, 05:30:08 PM
Thanks for sharing.


Title: Re: Region 2 DVD 6 or 3 seconds of cuts?
Post by: The clint on March 12, 2006, 08:35:34 AM
If you buy the Scandinavian SE of DYS you'll get the film uncut. I took that version of the film and sync'ed it to the audio track of the 2003 standard edition. This is what came out of that venture of mine:

Six blank frames between the last card of the mao quote and the first shot are missing on old DVD.

The last frame of the first shot is missing on the old DVD.

Three frames are missing from old DVD at 1:35:20:06 to 1:35:20:08 in the SE

The shot that starts at 2:09:35:21 has one unidentified extra frame in the older edition, fixed by dropping a random audio frame from that version.

The entire flashback scene, found at 2:24:11:17 to 2:27:28:13 in the SE is missing on the old DVD.

Extended footage of Juan running away is found on the old DVD at 2:24:11:07 to 2:24:13:18 probably to cover up the time gap the flashback sequence created in it's place.

The films have different title cards, the old DVD is called "A Fistful of Dynamite" (Duck You Sucker) while the SE is simply called Duck You Sucker

Don't think I went through the entire two versions of the film frame by frame! This whole business took about 15 to 20 minutes.