Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => For a Few Dollars More => Topic started by: Beebs on December 11, 2005, 09:43:06 AM



Title: Is that a Henry?
Post by: Beebs on December 11, 2005, 09:43:06 AM
Here's a few shots. I think the gun is a Henry, anybody got any idea what year or if it really is a Henry?

(http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/622/cap0054ye.png) (http://imageshack.us)

(http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/3886/cap0064lh.png) (http://imageshack.us)


Title: Re: Is that a Henry?
Post by: Juan Miranda on December 11, 2005, 10:00:53 AM
After the debate over this very subject on the GBU section a few weeks ago I would be tempted to say "lets see the other profile".


Title: Re: Is that a Henry?
Post by: Beebs on December 11, 2005, 10:19:38 AM
What debate is that, Colonel?


Title: Re: Is that a Henry?
Post by: The Peacemaker on December 11, 2005, 10:22:51 AM
That's a Henry repeating rifle. It was the first repeating rifle ever invented and it was the first to hold cartridges instead of the cap-and-ball way of loading. It was invented for the Civil War but the Union army didn't buy them because they weren't as powerful as the Springfield.


Title: Re: Is that a Henry?
Post by: Groggy on December 11, 2005, 03:39:42 PM
That's a Henry repeating rifle. It was the first repeating rifle ever invented and it was the first to hold cartridges instead of the cap-and-ball way of loading. It was invented for the Civil War but the Union army didn't buy them because they weren't as powerful as the Springfield.

Actually it has more to do with the fact that other, more efficient (and accurate) repeaters like the Sharps and Spencer were also available and used en masse by the US Cavalry and sharpshooters.  The Henry was not a spectacular weapon, even by 1860's standards.  (They were also prohibitively expensive, IIRC.)

There was also a common "wisdom" in the army (which remained prevalent until after 1900) that repeaters and breach-loaders encouraged soldiers to "waste" more ammunition, so a single-shot muzzle-loader was better.  As late as the Spanish-American War, the uniform arm of the US Army were slightly updated versions of the Springfield 1860 rifled musket.


Title: Re: Is that a Henry?
Post by: Beebs on December 11, 2005, 05:26:46 PM
There's a great little gun shop here in town and the have a real by God Henry. 40,000. And thats the cheap one. They have one that's about 70,000 because they have a fellow there that has a whole volume of books and books volume after volume of Roll call books for the Civil War. They tracked the Serial number and found what battles it was in and sho carried and what not. Pretty dang cool. I got to hold it too! ;D

Beautiful rifle for the 1860's. I put my hands on one anyday.


Title: Re: Is that a Henry?
Post by: Sackett on December 12, 2005, 04:35:38 PM
I've always thought it was a Henry.  However, the Henry was not the first repeater, as has been said.  There was the Colt percussion, Maynard breechloader, and the Spencer.  Perhaps there are even more that came before the Henry.
If I remember my Gettysburg battle correctly, it was John Buford's cavalry using Spencers that kept the Rebs from advancing to the high ground on the opening day of battle.


Title: Re: Is that a Henry?
Post by: Beebs on December 12, 2005, 04:37:38 PM
You are correct sir. The first was the Spencer. I was mistaken. I guess you could say the Henry was the first repeater to look like a repeater :D


Title: Re: Is that a Henry?
Post by: Juan Miranda on December 12, 2005, 05:22:39 PM
Just remember Beebs. Guns don't kill people. Rappers do.


Title: Re: Is that a Henry?
Post by: Beebs on December 12, 2005, 06:13:58 PM
Just remember Beebs. Guns don't kill people. Rappers do.

AAAAAAAmen.


Title: Re: Is that a Henry?
Post by: Sackett on December 12, 2005, 06:26:52 PM
I agree.  The Henry was the first to actually look like a repeater in the traditional sense we've come to associate with the West.    I'm mistaken about the Maynard though, I think it was only a single shot. 


Title: Re: Is that a Henry?
Post by: Beebs on December 12, 2005, 06:28:43 PM
I agree.  The Henry was the first to actually look like a repeater in the traditional sense we've come to associate with the West.    I'm mistaken about the Maynard though, I think it was only a single shot. 

I am not at all familiar with the Maynard actually, so I wouldn't know if it was a repeater or not. I'll take your word for it.


Title: Re: Is that a Henry?
Post by: Harmonica on December 12, 2005, 07:49:01 PM
The 15 shot Henry is the first true repeater in the sense that all mechanics are achieved  by activating the breech mechanism.  On the 7 shot  Spencer you still had to cock the hammer each time you ejected and inserted a cartridge.  The Maynard is a single shot breech loader percussion cap carbine.  The Colt Repeater was simply an extended revolver.  There was, however, another interesting “revolving” repeater similar to the Colt’s called the LaMatt but this one had an 18 gauge shotgun under the carbine barrel. :o 


Title: Re: Is that a Henry?
Post by: Beebs on December 12, 2005, 07:58:30 PM
Never heard of an 18 gauge before :o


Title: Re: Is that a Henry?
Post by: al mullock on December 15, 2005, 08:11:41 AM
im not really agree with you guys

the real name of this repeating rifle is "volcanic rifle"
created by the "volcanic repeating arms company"
one of the ingeneer was tyler HENRY

this firm will be bought by Oliver f. winchester and later TYLER HENRY will be the great manager of this new company which will be named "HENRY REPEATING ARMS COMPANY"
they will sell the new repeating rifle named "henry rifle"

then in 1866 Nelson king take the place of tyler Henry and customize the henry rifle with a new loading and ejection sytem... anew firm and a new repeating rifle is born the winchester 1866("the yellow boy")

go have a look at www.winchestercollector.org

you will see an excellent picture of "volcanic rifle"
and you ll easily compare with the FAFDM picture...
see ya..



Title: Re: Is that a Henry?
Post by: Beebs on December 15, 2005, 04:45:25 PM
No matter what they're called, they sure are pretty rifles arent they! :o I've been lucky enough to hold an original


Title: Re: Is that a Henry?
Post by: Groggy on December 15, 2005, 04:58:33 PM
I've always thought it was a Henry.  However, the Henry was not the first repeater, as has been said.  There was the Colt percussion, Maynard breechloader, and the Spencer.  Perhaps there are even more that came before the Henry.
If I remember my Gettysburg battle correctly, it was John Buford's cavalry using Spencers that kept the Rebs from advancing to the high ground on the opening day of battle.

That's quite true.  As I think I said above, the Henrys themselves were extremely expensive, and only 16,000 of them were used in the Civil War - almost entirely by the Union.  The Spencers weren't a uniform weapon of any army during the war, though a lot of cavalry regiments did use them.  The uniform cavalry weapon was (or grew to be, anyway) the Sharps breachloading carbine, which still fired something like 12-15 rounds a minute (still a hell of a lot faster than the standard muzzle loaders).

From what I've read, the Henry generally lacked in accuracy and power, but with sixteen shots you don't need a whole lot of either.  But still, I agree - one hell of a pretty looking gun.  ;)


Title: Re: Is that a Henry?
Post by: Harmonica on December 15, 2005, 10:40:03 PM
Ascetically the Volcanic rifle looks very much like the Henry in many regards so you can’t rule it out, however, it seems highly unlikely that anyone in that group would use and operate one.  Although having repeating capability, which Henry would latter incorporate in his own rifle, the Volcanic certainly lacked any real stopping power generating a disappointing muzzle velocity of 56 ftp with it’s self contained caseless bullets.  Talk about lacking power  I doubt anyone in that group would have such an unreliable piece but it is possible that it could have been just be lying around and Manco just happened to pick it up. 

Volcanic rifles are a rare commodity, even in 1965 and are extremely expensive, but it is quite possible Leone had one in his collection and used it for the movie.


Title: Re: Is that a Henry?
Post by: Beebs on December 16, 2005, 06:04:39 AM
Seems I remember a post concerning what these Bounty Hunters do with their reward money. They buy better guns. Henry's and Volcanic rifles.  Colonel Mortimer has that sheet of four high cost looking weapons.