Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Other Films => Topic started by: cigar joe on January 10, 2006, 05:14:06 AM



Title: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: cigar joe on January 10, 2006, 05:14:06 AM
I picked up a DVD of Unforgiven and watched it again for the first time in a few years. Its not holding up as good as Leone's films for me. It definetly plays more like the AW that it is, rather than an SW.

Its realistic but certainly not mythic. the performances are great, no doubt about it, and the last 20 minutes are great with the  payoff at the end being superb, but the getting there seems to drag, SW's seem faster paced.

Can it be that emphasis on realistic story is trumping style?

We need a western that will grab you by the seat of the pants

Watched the Johnson County War (Tom Berenger-Burt Reynolds) the other day on TV and the main impression I got was that there was way, way too much dialogue, and not enough action.

We need more style & those sparce mythic lines that speak volumes.

Come to think of it action flicks have upsurped the SW formula using explosions instead of gunfights & without the style, but with  cheesy one liners, lol .


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Leone Admirer on January 10, 2006, 05:57:33 AM
I agree, the film isn't as great as when I first saw it. In fact I admit (guiltily) that I enjoy Cosmatos' Tombstone much more now. A new spaghetti must be re-born  ;D


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Marco Leone on January 10, 2006, 07:18:52 AM
Its still a personal favourite of mine, after a number of viewings.  I think that the BIG ending is about my favaourite confrontation, aside from GBU.  I also love the way that English Bob comes in to a big fanfare but shortly later disappears with his tail between his legs.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Banjo on January 10, 2006, 08:08:34 AM
Its a very good aw but i much prefer Clint in his  "man with no name"type roles whether it is in Leones or his own directed westerns.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: titoli on January 10, 2006, 11:27:15 AM
I am glad to see that so many among you have changed your opinion about this movie which, paradoxically, worked for me better the second time than the first. What I don't like in this film is basically the direction. There's a good screenplay, but the images are very, very drab ones. I think that Pale Rider was figuratively  much better. And, sure, a little more fast-pacedness in the first part would have been welcome. Still I like the concept of no good ones no bad ones, the duets of Harris and Hackman and, as said already, the magnificent last 20 minutes.

 


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Le Bon on January 10, 2006, 02:00:50 PM
I have been meaning to watch this again for a while now. Haven't seen it for a few years so it will be interesting to see if my opinion has changed like it has with some of you!


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: dave jenkins on January 12, 2006, 08:50:11 PM
For me, the film is a mixed bag. I don't like a lot of the casting, I don't like the PC elements, and I hate, hate, hate the music.

On the other hand, I very much like the way the film is structured, with the long English Bob digression in the middle. Not many Hollywood films these days feel able to dispense with that old Aristotlean bug-a-boo, unity of action. It takes a director confident in his storytelling to do this, or one who is at least confident in the storytelling of his models. Eastwood should get great credit for following the lessons of his betters, Don and Sergio.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: cigar joe on January 12, 2006, 09:32:01 PM
Yea the music is not anything that memorable, at least its not a "sung" tune, or some modern sounding score, its all low key and somewhat laid back like the whole film.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Kurugen on September 23, 2006, 07:23:01 PM
Yea the music is not anything that memorable, at least its not a "sung" tune, or some modern sounding score, its all low key and somewhat laid back like the whole film.

the music remided me of The Deer Hunters score.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Sackett on September 23, 2006, 07:42:55 PM
I like the movie theme music also.† Yes, it does remind me of the Deer Hunter.† Good point.
For me, Unforgiven, shows many different levels of bad or evil.
The prostitutes are one level
The bad cowboys cut the girl up another level
Little Bill practically looks the other way with minimal reprecussions.
Then you have the bounty killer mentality of those on the hunt.
The stupid press that just wants profit.
The genocidal English Bob.
Little Bill shows his true form by mangling English Bob.
The killing of the 2 cowboys coldbloodedly.
Then finally, 'pure evil' rides back into town and we get to see bad taken to the extreme as we learn what the true histoy and character of Munny are.

Its like the movie is telling you, you want bad, here is someone from out of hell.† Yet at the same time, we are learning that the hellish creation has a family and has actually tried to redeem himself.†

So for me, its got a lot of levels to dwell on.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Kurugen on September 23, 2006, 07:48:05 PM
To me the movie kinda dragged.The part where i felt evil come into the movie was when clint took that first drink of whiskey when learning that Ned had died.Other than that the movie just dragged and dragged for me.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Groggy on September 24, 2006, 06:37:01 AM
"Unforgiven" is a great film but I've never really been able to enjoy it terribly.  I like a lot of things about it but it's difficult for me to watch more than once a year or so.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: franksgrandson on September 29, 2006, 10:18:26 AM
this is a good point to raise Unforgiven thrilled me when it came out but over the years I see it more as a Hackman film, the more you see it the more he dominates the whole thing.
Clint only really comes alive at the end when he gets drunk, the one scene on the hill when he talks to the kid it one of the best scenes he ever did post leone.
Up to that point in the movie William Munny just moans about not being like that anymore.
SO IN THIS MOVIE THE BOOZE IS WHAT MAKES CLINT A BADASS NOT CLINT.
where's Little Bill wants to be normal but can't as he really is a badass.
Just goes to show Leone is the greatest Western maker of all time


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Leone Admirer on January 21, 2007, 03:25:09 PM
I remember doing this on my film course at College. Everyone was waxing lyrical about it as if it was the best westerne ever. I just listed 10 more westerns out of quite a few that I felt were 1000 times better. Showing clips if OUATITW and watching Stagecoach made people agree. Not that I don't like Clint, not at all, I just think this is a bit overhyped.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Beebs on January 21, 2007, 04:34:37 PM
Unforgiven is still one of my favorites. Its so... powerful, I guess. It really grabs me everytime I watch it. But then again, I haven't seen too many others that do the same. Tombstone for instance.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 05, 2007, 08:07:46 PM
If Sergio Leone was alive long enough to have seen Clint Eastwood's Unforgiven, in your opinion, what would be Leone's first reactions to this masterpiece?


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Silenzio on February 05, 2007, 08:34:02 PM
I'm not sure... he might not like its lack of "style" but I think he would like its rejection of all western cliches and all glorification, romanticism, or trivialization of violence in western films. After all, Leone's career is one built on rejection: The Dollars Trilogy rejects western romantacism, OUATITW rejects the dollars trilogy (which would be even more evident if he had Eli, Clint and Cleef play Strode, Muloch, and Elam's part) and Duck You Sucker is a rejection of Zapata Westerns, and also some of Leone's past trademarks (the "duel" on a circular platform as noted in Frayling's commentary).


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 05, 2007, 09:00:57 PM
Yeah, I see what you're saying about the "style" aspect of the film. Clint Eastwood's directing style is much more laid back and reserved than Sergio Leone's style. I think he defiently would of loved the violent ending. It's defiently not your typical happy go lucky John Wayne ending that most American Westerns portray.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Tuco the ugly on February 06, 2007, 06:51:54 AM
He'd like Unforgiven way more than Outlaw Josey Wales,High Plains Drifter and Pale Rider that's for sure.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 06, 2007, 10:50:56 AM
He'd like Unforgiven way more than Outlaw Josey Wales,High Plains Drifter and Pale Rider that's for sure.

Yeah, I agree Tuco, although Outlaw Josie Wales is a great movie, in my opinion.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: T.H. on February 06, 2007, 12:45:34 PM
I love HPD and Josey Wales.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 06, 2007, 02:11:43 PM
Yeah, High Plains Drifter is a Leone type western, that's for sure.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: dave jenkins on February 06, 2007, 05:10:47 PM
If Sergio Leone was alive long enough to have seen Clint Eastwood's Unforgiven, in your opinion, what would be Leone's first reactions to this masterpiece?
He would, rightly, be turned off by the annoying score. However, he'd be pleased by the dedication to "Don and Sergio" which he would misunderstand as "Don Sergio." ;D


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 06, 2007, 07:19:12 PM
He would, rightly, be turned off by the annoying score. However, he'd be pleased by the dedication to "Don and Sergio" which he would misunderstand as "Don Sergio." ;D

Oh come on dave jenkins, the score to Unforgiven is beautiful and haunting. It's one of the best things about the movie. How can you knock it!?!


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Groggy on February 07, 2007, 05:32:27 AM
Given that Leone didn't like Eastwood's films (particularly HPD), he probably wouldn't have been enamoured of this one.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 07, 2007, 09:40:41 AM
Given that Leone didn't like Eastwood's films (particularly HPD), he probably wouldn't have been enamoured of this one.

Where did you get the info about Leone not liking Eastwood's films? I'm just curious because I have never read this.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 09, 2007, 11:56:06 PM
Unforgiven is arguably one of the greatest westers ever. It's one of my favorite movies ever, and I think it's getting better with age. I think it has a fantastic script, the direction is brilliant by Clint, and I love the acting. Some of you mentioned that you didn't like the casting for certain parts. I would have to disagree. I thought the casting was perfect. Also, I think the music is not only beautiful, but extremely haunting. I love how "Claudia's Theme" kicks in at the end of the movie as the credits role. It's powerful to me. And, how can we not forget the last 20 minutes or so, this ending is bloody brilliant, from the conversation with the Schofield Kid and Willium Munny all the way through the ending. It's one of the best endings you will ever see in my opinion. Unforgiven is a masterpiece.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: cigar joe on February 10, 2007, 06:34:33 AM
Sorry, for me its not something I'll pop into the DVD player on a regular basis, Eastwood ia a good director but he's not brilliant, not on a level with Leone which I can watch over & over again, the last 20 minutes are good granted, but there is still something lacking for me anyway, I know it when I see it and I don't see it.

Do this little test, imagine replacing Eastwood's character with another actor, and see how it holds up. With Eastwood half the production is carried by the cachet of the MWNN personna built up over his career, we know no matter how much pig sheet he lays in that at some point the MWNN will appear.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: dave jenkins on February 10, 2007, 09:11:11 AM
Well considered, CJ.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 10, 2007, 10:07:21 AM
cigar joe, imagine the man with no name series without Eastwood? I think he ment a lot to those movies even more so than Leone's direction. It works both ways in my opinion, and in my opinion Eastwood is a fine director, above average at that. I know we all look at things differently and I respect your opinion, but I just feel Eastwood is great. I love the slow build up to this movie. We see a man who is way past his prime, in the twilight of his life. We don't need to see a shoot em up first hour. It wouldn't fit the movie at all. I love how they introduce all the characters respectively. And by the way, Tombstone has nothing on Unforgiven. I like Tombstone but it's one of the most overrated westerns ever. It plays out like a movie made for T.V.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: dave jenkins on February 10, 2007, 10:18:58 AM
cigar joe, imagine the man with no name series without Eastwood? I think he ment a lot to those movies even more so than Leone's direction.
You're getting dangerously close to heresy, brother.

Okay, I'll follow your line and take Clint out of the Dollars films in my mind. I find that by substituting Bronson back in, the pictures work quite well. They're different, but still amazing works of art. Same if I fill the lead roles with any number of other candidates. Because Sergio chose well with Clint, do you really think he would have cast badly if he'd chosen someone else? Look at all the other films SL directed without Clint. If there was one thing Sergio knew how to do, it was casting.

But an Eastwood film without Eastwood? An entirely pedestrian affair.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 10, 2007, 10:34:36 AM
You're getting dangerously close to heresy, brother.

Okay, I'll follow your line and take Clint out of the Dollars films in my mind. I find that by substituting Bronson back in, the pictures work quite well. They're different, but still amazing works of art. Same if I fill the lead roles with any number of other candidates. Because Sergio chose well with Clint, do you really think he would have cast badly if he'd chosen someone else? Look at all the other films SL directed without Clint. If there was one thing Sergio knew how to do, it was casting.

But an Eastwood film without Eastwood? An entirely pedestrian affair.

Relax, Sergio Leone is my favorite director so I'm not bashing Leone at all brother man. lol. I was just saying, I think Sergio casted Eastwood perfectly. Sergio's films are a work of art, but you can say the same for Clint's direction, but in a different way. They had two totally different styles. Unforgiven is a masterpiece to me, and that is that.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: pixelated on February 10, 2007, 12:38:24 PM
but there is still something lacking for me anyway, I know it when I see it and I don't see it.

yeap. Unforgiven is one of those movies i really want to love, but when i'm watching it, i'm just not getting much out of it. when i'm not watching it, i can analyze and build it up in my mind, but as soon as i pop it in, its just not that good...

Look at all the other films SL directed without Clint. If there was one thing Sergio knew how to do, it was casting.

yeap again. OUATITW didn't have clint, and its by far my favorite leone. i think it would have been a lesser film with clint, in fact.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: archangel on February 10, 2007, 07:01:42 PM
Leone would say: "You haven't improved much, have you Clint".


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Groggy on February 11, 2007, 05:35:13 AM
Where did you get the info about Leone not liking Eastwood's films? I'm just curious because I have never read this.

I remember reading it in Frayling's "Spaghetti Westerns", probably a few other places.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Leone Admirer on February 11, 2007, 07:03:48 AM
I thought Eastwood said he reckoned his approach to filmmaking did differ alot to Leones especially in time, pacing and plot and he wasn't overtly fond of Leone's style but I can't remember reading Sergio saying that about Eastwood's films. I'll flip through Frayling's book to see if I can dig out the correct quote.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 11, 2007, 02:34:26 PM
Well I remember hearing Eastwood in an interview, I think it was on TGTBATU special edition, that he didn't like how Leone would sit on a shot for a long period of time without switching to another shot. The scene at the end of TGTBATU where the Trio are spreading out and the camera is just looking out at them. Eastwood said he didn't like this shot.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: archangel on February 11, 2007, 06:42:34 PM
Well I remember hearing Eastwood in an interview, I think it was on TGTBATU special edition, that he didn't like how Leone would sit on a shot for a long period of time without switching to another shot. The scene at the end of TGTBATU where the Trio are spreading out and the camera is just looking out at them. Eastwood said he didn't like this shot.
that one of the best bits in GBU. the composition is excellent.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: archangel on February 11, 2007, 06:49:55 PM
most of eastwoods output is inferior to leone's.
unforgiven is one case. i have no trouble  visualizing equipment, staff, et all just behind the camera view at all times.
the little bits that are right don't justify this movies prominance.
just shows what money can do to mediocraty.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Sucker on February 11, 2007, 07:24:35 PM
I love the westerns Leone loved and I love Leone's westerns.
I think Leone would have, like me, gone to see UNFORGIVEN hoping for something really good.
Like me he wouldn't have liked it at all  ;D
It did absolutely nothing for me even though I'm a great fan of Clint as a director - but not this time. A most disappointing western.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 11, 2007, 10:10:28 PM
Although I don't agree with what Clint said about some of Leone's style, I do believe that Unforgiven is a great western. I don't understand how some of you being big fans of the western genre, could not love Unforgiven. It completely shocks me. The movie is outstanding, and has one of the best conclusions ever.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: cigar joe on February 11, 2007, 10:21:05 PM
Quote
one of the best conclusions ever.


I do like the last 20 minutes don't get me wrong. O0


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 11, 2007, 11:22:54 PM


I do like the last 20 minutes don't get me wrong. O0

You have some great taste cigar joe, I'm not doubting that, and you know I respect your opinion a long with everyone on this board. I'm just saying, I'm surprised what some of you are saying about Unforgiven as a whole. Hey, it's just a matter of opinion I guess. haha I know I love it!! You all know that. Back in 1992 when the movie was released, I was only 11 years old at the time, and the movie blew me away back then! It still does to this day. I just love it.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: pixelated on February 12, 2007, 01:14:26 PM
You have some great taste cigar joe, I'm not doubting that, and you know I respect your opinion a long with everyone on this board. I'm just saying, I'm surprised what some of you are saying about Unforgiven as a whole. Hey, it's just a matter of opinion I guess. haha I know I love it!! You all know that. Back in 1992 when the movie was released, I was only 11 years old at the time, and the movie blew me away back then! It still does to this day. I just love it.


i was about the same age when i saw it in the theatre, and i didn't like it then at all. i recently picked it up again, thinking- hey, maybe i was just too young to get it... nope. still didn't like it. to me, its really a pretty great idea for a movie, just executed poorly.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Groggy on February 12, 2007, 03:38:48 PM
Although I don't agree with what Clint said about some of Leone's style, I do believe that Unforgiven is a great western. I don't understand how some of you being big fans of the western genre, could not love Unforgiven. It completely shocks me. The movie is outstanding, and has one of the best conclusions ever.

I think it's a great movie, but it tries too hard to be thoughtful and deep.  I loved it the first two times I watched it, but it isn't a movie I can watch again and again.  The acting is great and I love the cinematography, but it's just lacking that special something. . .


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: pixelated on February 12, 2007, 04:26:52 PM
I think it's a great movie, but it tries too hard to be thoughtful and deep. 

too me, its not that it tried too hard to be "thoughtful and deep" but that it failed to create the necessary depth for this story. 


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Kurug3n on February 12, 2007, 06:05:34 PM
If Sergio Leone was alive long enough to have seen Clint Eastwood's Unforgiven, in your opinion, what would be Leone's first reactions to this masterpiece?

If Leone was alive in 2000 he would have said "I liked Space Cowboys more"   :)


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Tim on February 12, 2007, 07:08:16 PM
Quote
Okay, I'll follow your line and take Clint out of the Dollars films in my mind. I find that by substituting Bronson back in, the pictures work quite well. They're different, but still amazing works of art. Same if I fill the lead roles with any number of other candidates.

  Excellent point, dave.  Bronson has always been known for his stone-face performances, but even in OUATITW, Harmonica displays some humor, and Bronson delivers a lot of those paradoxical one-liners perfectly.  Sure, it would have been different to see someone other than Eastwood in the Dollars trilogy (just imagine Fonda or Coburn), but because of Leone's direction, I don't believe they'd miss a beat.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 12, 2007, 08:48:58 PM
hahahaaha you guys are hilarious. I don't get how a movie that you think has so many flaws would win Best Picture. I don't believe that the Academy just gave it to Clint Eastwood because he was old and in the twilight of his career at the time. I trully believe the movie was well deserving of the title of Best Picture that year. It's such a powerful film.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: pixelated on February 12, 2007, 08:55:13 PM
hahahaaha you guys are hilarious. I don't get how a movie that you think has so many flaws would win Best Picture. I don't believe that the Academy just gave it to Clint Eastwood because he was old and in the twilight of his career at the time. I trully believe the movie was well deserving of the title of Best Picture that year. It's such a powerful film.



eh.. awards mean very little to me... especially seeing how many deserving films have been passed over. many of the passed over films deserve the awards the most...

we're talking opinions here anyway, just because something wins an award doesn't make it worth anything to someone who it just doesn't click for.. personally, i trust the opinions of the dedicated fans of the genre more than a panel of "judges" any day


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 12, 2007, 09:00:25 PM
Once Upon a Time in the West is my favorite movie, so you have a point there with Bronson but Unforgiven is still a great achievment. I just think some of you are insane. lol


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: pixelated on February 12, 2007, 09:05:16 PM
and as a side thought..

if it works for you, then fuck it.. there's no need to convince us its a masterpiece.

there's plenty of film buffs that look down their noses at us spaghetti fans  O0


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 12, 2007, 10:27:02 PM
and as a side thought..

if it works for you, then ****** it.. there's no need to convince us its a masterpiece.

there's plenty of film buffs that look down their noses at us spaghetti fans  O0

HAHA, that's true. I respect your opinion either way.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Groggy on February 13, 2007, 04:35:51 PM
there's plenty of film buffs that look down their noses at us spaghetti fans  O0

They're called dickheads.  ;D


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 13, 2007, 05:15:48 PM
They're called dickheads.  ;D

HAHAHAHA. Damn right!!! O0


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: cigar joe on February 17, 2007, 01:37:42 PM
TucumcariBound65, all you have to do is rent or buy Rawhide first season and see the type of character Eastwood played back then BL (Before Leone) its the same with Van Cleef all their parts were pretty type cast.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 17, 2007, 01:51:18 PM
TucumcariBound65, all you have to do is rent or buy Rawhide first season and see the type of character Eastwood played back then BL (Before Leone) its the same with Van Cleef all their parts were pretty type cast.

cigar joe, it's funny you mention that about Rawhide. Lately I've been meaning to pick up the first season. I've been dying to watch the first season.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 06, 2007, 03:47:10 PM
I didn't bother reading the four pages of replies, but I will say that I have grown to love Unforgiven after watching it twice. I am one of the few people of my age group (according to IMDB) to enjoy this film. And the musical score is good too.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: dave jenkins on July 06, 2007, 10:22:38 PM
The score is one of the things I don't like about the film. Another is the casting. Another is the writing. It has its good points: the digression with English Bob works well, largely because it IS a digression. Gives the whole more of an epic (ie. Leonean) feel. Some nice photography as well. But it's too talky, too PC, too earnest. And Hackman ruins everything he touches (3 films excepted).


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Kurug3n on July 06, 2007, 11:15:19 PM
The score is one of the things I don't like about the film. Another is the casting. Another is the writing. It has its good points: the digression with English Bob works well, largely because it IS a digression. Gives the whole more of an epic (ie. Leonean) feel. Some nice photography as well. But it's too talky, too PC, too earnest. And Hackman ruins everything he touches (3 films excepted).

Agree 100% DJ O0 also like the new avatar and sig O0


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 06, 2007, 11:16:42 PM
Just wondering...what don't you like about the score?


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Kurug3n on July 06, 2007, 11:19:21 PM
Just wondering...what don't you like about the score?

Its just not memorable as of right now i cant remeber a single note O0


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Noodles_SlowStir on July 06, 2007, 11:24:57 PM
And Hackman ruins everything he touches (3 films excepted).

Curious.  What would be your three?  The Conversation, The French Connection in there.....


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 06, 2007, 11:28:54 PM
I can remember it. I think Clint actually came up with it.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Kurug3n on July 06, 2007, 11:45:23 PM
Curious.  What would be your three?  The Conversation, The French Connection in there.....

possibly Get Shorty?


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 06, 2007, 11:59:25 PM
Just wondering...what don't you like about the score?

The score is brilliant. Claudia's Theme is some of the most beautiful music ever composed. As you can tell Kevin, I'm a huge fan of this film and I don't agree with many of our fellow members here. Unforgiven has held up really well. Everytime I watch it, I'm into it, on the edge of my seat more than ever. The film is just brilliant. It contains many memorable moments in my opinion.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 07, 2007, 12:09:18 AM
I loved the scene between Richard Harris and Gene Hackman, when English Bob meets Little Bill again, he drops his upper class manner "sh*t and fried eggs!"

Who knew Richard Harris would have ended up as Dumbledore?


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 07, 2007, 12:32:18 AM
I loved the scene between Richard Harris and Gene Hackman, when English Bob meets Little Bill again, he drops his upper class manner "sh*t and fried eggs!"

Who knew Richard Harris would have ended up as Dumbledore?

That scene is riveting. Both Richard Harris and Gene Hackman were great together in that scene.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: dave jenkins on July 07, 2007, 12:43:10 AM
Wow, you guys are good. The 3 Hackman performances I think work well are indeed those in TFC, TC, and GS.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 22, 2007, 10:47:55 AM
There's something I've been wanting to talk to you all about with this film. Why didn't William Munney take Ned's body at the end of the film? I mean he was his best friend. Don't you think he'd want to take his body and bury it himself? Or take his body and bring it back to his wife Sally Two Trees? It never made much sense to me when just before he leaves the town of Big Whiskey, he yells out, "You better bury Ned right..." No William, I think it's your obligation to bury Ned! You at least owe that to him for getting him into this racket.

Your thoughts?


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Rojo Ramone on July 22, 2007, 01:53:41 PM
I think Gene Hackman can be brilliant in one movie and terrible in another. IMO Gene Hackman MADE THE UNGORGIVEN.
He was the best part, other than the location of the film...Alberta, Canada


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 22, 2007, 08:15:15 PM
I think Gene Hackman can be brilliant in one movie and terrible in another. IMO Gene Hackman MADE THE UNGORGIVEN.
He was the best part, other than the location of the film...Alberta, Canada

It's not "The Unforgiven" Rojo, it's "Unforgiven." The Unforgiven starred Burt Lancaster and Audrey Hepburn.

Hackman was not the only great performance. You must of dozed off during the film. Clint, Morgan, and Richard Harris were all brilliant.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: The Firecracker on July 22, 2007, 10:50:19 PM
Then again, Hackman is the best thing in The Quick and the Dead.

Dave won't agree though. 8)


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: noodles_leone on July 24, 2007, 03:54:14 AM
Given that Leone didn't like Eastwood's films (particularly HPD), he probably wouldn't have been enamoured of this one.

I'm pretty sure that he would have liked it a lot. The realistic aspect of it, and the fact that the movie plays with the audience: people were expecting for a eastwood western... You knwo, Eastwood, Clint, the man with no name, the man who draws faster than anybody............. and they get that. I really think Sergio would have likd that. The movie is very close to Leone's work on many themes: playing with the rules of a genre, talking about movies while beeing very documented and close to the reality by many aspects, a man haunted by his past... And an epic ending :)

I personaly like the film, and ihave the feeling it's a great movie, one of the best of the 20 past years, a classic... But it's very cold to me. That is why i say the same as Groggy : it's hard to me to watch it over and over. I've seen it only twice, which is very few compared to most films i like at least a little.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Sonny on July 24, 2007, 05:41:34 AM

Question:

Who considers Unforgiven Eastwood's best?  And if you don't, which do you think is his best directing job?


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: noodles_leone on July 24, 2007, 05:50:19 AM
The Bridge Of Madison County. best one. Mystic river is close second. And Unforgiven comes third.

I know I'm probably one of the only here to love Madison so much, but I think it's an amazing melodrama, that SHOULD be ridiculous (as the book is, as far as i've heard), and that is just perfect and moving, just because it's not only a love story but about life: what's a successful life? what about our dreams? what about sacrifice?

Mystic River is  :o :o :o :o :o :o to me. i love the story, the acting... and i think it is Clint's best job concernign the camerawork and the editing. The music is amazing too, it perfectly matches with the movie... Many people have told me it's boring since it is always the same tune, but this is why it is so powerful. It reinforces the idea of fatality that is in the whole movie. You KNOW stg is going to be wrong, you know that every character knows it, and you know, as the characters, that nothing can be done to avoid it. It's strange it is just an average thriller for many people.

And then comes Unforgiven, that is in discussion here...


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 24, 2007, 07:52:49 AM
Question:

Who considers Unforgiven Eastwood's best?  And if you don't, which do you think is his best directing job?

I consider Unforgiven to be Eastwood's best on many levels. Here is my top ten list of Clint's directing Films...

Unforgiven
Letters from Iwo Jima
Million Dollar Baby
Mystic River
A Perfect World
Flags of Our Fathers
Bridges of Madison County
The Outlaw Josie Wales
High Plains Drifter
Play Misty For Me

Honorable Mention:

Space Cowboys


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: noodles_leone on July 24, 2007, 08:02:16 AM
My ranked list :

Bridges of Madison County
Mystic River
Unforgiven
Letters from Iwo Jima
Million Dollar baby
A Perfect Word
Flags of our Fathers
Midnight in the garden of Good and Evil
Pale Rider
Play Misty for Me

Honoirable Mention : most of the others.

generaly speaking, Eastwood's movies are done very quickly, from the first draft of the script, which explains why they are flawed. Still, neither is ONLY a bad movie. They are all interesting. You never forget completly about any of his movies, and their is always at least a few very touching scene, intersting themas and the like.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: The Peacemaker on July 24, 2007, 08:32:11 AM
Question:

Who considers Unforgiven Eastwood's best?  And if you don't, which do you think is his best directing job?

Me!


Unforgiven is a great movie. Loved every second of it.


Too bad Eastwood's other westerns weren't as good.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 24, 2007, 08:46:10 AM
Me!


Unforgiven is a great movie. Loved every second of it.


Too bad Eastwood's other westerns weren't as good.

This is why you're the man Peacemaker! O0 I thin you're one of the only few on here who loves every second of it as I do.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: The Peacemaker on July 24, 2007, 08:50:13 AM
This is why you're the man Peacemaker! O0 I thin you're one of the only few on here who loves every second of it as I do.

 8)


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Tuco the ugly on July 24, 2007, 08:56:10 AM
I love "Unforgiven" too, it's the movie Clint got closest to Sergio Leone.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Sonny on July 24, 2007, 08:57:15 AM
I'm proud to say i loved every second of it as well.  I've only seen a hadnful of Eastwood's films, like Million Dollar Baby and Mystic River, and so far I think Unforgiven is his best (by far!!).   :)


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 24, 2007, 09:06:37 AM
I'm proud to say i loved every second of it as well.  I've only seen a hadnful of Eastwood's films, like Million Dollar Baby and Mystic River, and so far I think Unforgiven is his best (by far!!).   :)

Sonny, what did you think of the final 20 minutes of so beginning with Willium Munny and The Schofield Kid having their talk on the hill as the girl rides up with the money that's owed to them. That scene is breathtaking with famous quotes as, "Well, I guess they had it coming to 'em"...."We all got it comin' kid." CHILLING! Then when the girl tells Willium that Little Bill killed Ned followed by William taking his first swig of Whiskey in years as he hears how his best friend was murdered.

Then, the ending of EPIC Poportions. "That's right, I killed woman and children, I've killed just about everything that's walked or crawled at one time or another, and I'm here to kill you Little Bill for what you did to Ned."

WOW, I'M GETTING CHILLS JUST TYPING THAT! O0


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Sonny on July 24, 2007, 09:10:30 AM
Sonny, what did you think of the final 20 minutes of so beginning with Willium Munny and The Schofield Kid having their talk on the hill as the girl rides up with the money that's owed to them. That scene is breathtaking with famous quotes as, "Well, I guess they had it coming to 'em"...."We all got it comin' kid." CHILLING! Then when the girl tells Willium that Little Bill killed Ned followed by William taking his first swig of Whiskey in years as he hears how his best friend was murdered.

Then, the ending of EPIC Poportions. "That's right, I killed woman and children, I've killed just about everything that's walked or crawled at one time or another, and I'm here to kill you Little Bill for what you did to Ned."

WOW, I'M GETTING CHILLS JUST TYPING THAT! O0

ALL great scenes! In fact, I thought it might've been just me who loved that ending.. ;D




Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 24, 2007, 09:13:56 AM
ALL great scenes! In fact, I thought it might've been just me who loved that ending.. ;D




Some members here think that ending was rushed. Not me. William showed up, did what he had to do and moved on. Why waste anymore time in Big Whiskey that you need to. William wiped them all out and had to get back to his children.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: noodles_leone on July 24, 2007, 09:21:08 AM
Not rushed.
Bang bang bang.............. BANG!

That's great. Quick, intense, powerful. The whole movie makes you wait for something like that, an epic endic, very violent. And that's what happens. And after that this is the end. Everything is told.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Silenzio on July 24, 2007, 09:23:18 AM
Not rushed.
Bang bang bang.............. BANG!

That's great. Quick, intense, powerful. The whole movie makes you wait for something like that, an epic endic, very violent. And that's what happens. And after that this is the end. Everything is told.

I agree.  By far the best western Eastwood directed.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 24, 2007, 09:26:15 AM
Yes, we're getting a trend of positive talk about Unforgien! Finally! I love you guy's! O0


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Silenzio on July 24, 2007, 09:28:25 AM
Yes, we're getting a trend of positive talk about Unforgien! Finally! I love you guy's! O0

So when you said "We love you too, Silenzio" that was just a lie!?


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: noodles_leone on July 24, 2007, 09:28:32 AM
Yes, we're getting a trend of positive talk about Unforgien! Finally! I love you guy's! O0

By the way, exept the end, the movie sucks.








Just kiding. That was too easy to be avoided.  :-X


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: dave jenkins on July 24, 2007, 10:13:51 AM
I agree.  By far the best western Eastwood directed.
Not much of a boast, since he's only directed four.

There seems to be confusion throughout this board over what constitutes "an Eastwood film." I think we have to be careful to distinguish between films in which he acts, and films which he directs (and may act in as well).


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: noodles_leone on July 24, 2007, 10:15:11 AM
Not much of a boast, since he's only directed four.

There seems to be confusion throughout this board over what constitutes "an Eastwood film." I think we have to be careful to distinguish between films in which he acts, and films which he directs (and may act in as well).

Very hard to distinguish.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 24, 2007, 10:18:39 AM
By the way, exept the end, the movie sucks.








Just kiding. That was too easy to be avoided.  :-X

hahaha you scared me there for a second noodles! :o


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Silenzio on July 24, 2007, 12:07:34 PM
Not much of a boast, since he's only directed four.

Leone only made five.




Not trying to compare Eastwood to Leone's genius, but still.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: dave jenkins on July 24, 2007, 01:37:58 PM
Leone only made five.
Not trying to compare Eastwood to Leone's genius, but still.
Then what IS your point, exactly? Each of SL's films are masterpieces, the products of painstaking craftsmanship. They are worlds away from Eastwood's middling efforts.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 24, 2007, 01:41:58 PM
Then what IS your point, exactly? Each of SL's films are masterpieces, the products of painstaking craftsmanship. They are worlds away from Eastwood's middling efforts.

I wouldn't refer to Eastwood's works as middling efforts. His films are completely different to those of Leone's. Eastwood's films are not spaghetti westerns. Yes, Eastwood's films don't compare to that of Leone's but he's made a couple masterpieces himself.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: dave jenkins on July 24, 2007, 02:04:17 PM
I wouldn't refer to Eastwood's works as middling efforts. His films are completely different to those of Leone's. Eastwood's films are not spaghetti westerns. Yes, Eastwood's films don't compare to that of Leone's but he's made a couple masterpieces himself.
SL's films are not spaghetti westerns, either. And I completely disagree about Eastwood. Nothing he has done as a director is of any lasting significance. He is a follower, not an innovator.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 24, 2007, 02:09:59 PM
SL's films are not spaghetti westerns, either. And I completely disagree about Eastwood. Nothing he has done as a director is of any lasting significance. He is a follower, not an innovator.

Bro, his directing style is different to Leone's though. He makes quicker cuts in scenes while Leone extends scenes with one long shot a lot of times in his films. Eastwood disagree's with this method as he's stated many times. Sergio Leone's films are indeed spaghetti westerns. He's the one that spawed the sub-genre! Come on now, you know that! Yes his SW's are far above the copy cats but they're still spaghetti westerns, far more different than the traditional american western.

If you're calling Clint a follower than how come you're not calling Sergio one as well? Leone's films, preticularly the first couple, were heavily influenced by Akira Kurosawa. Sergio was a big fan of Akira's. Yes he built upon the methods he borrowed, innovating his own ideas, but he learned from the best. Leone was also a big fan of David Lean's big EPICS. You can clearly see this in the desert scenes in The Good, The Bad and The Ugly and also at times in Once Upon a Time in the West. He also loved John Ford. All these great directors had material they looked up too including Clint.

I absolutely hate it when some people say Unforgiven is a complete ripoff of Leone's work. It looks nothing like Leone's work. Even the violence are different. Clint has made many films that have had a lasting signficance on me, many films! Unforgiven, The Outlaw Josie Wales, High Plains Drifter, Play Misty For Me, and the recent greats, A Perfect World, Mystic River, Million Dollar Baby, Flags of Our Fathers, and Letters from Iwo Jima. All masterpieces.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: dave jenkins on July 24, 2007, 02:33:31 PM
SL did not "spawn" the SW sub-genre, by his own admission.

Comparing SLs with SWs does credit to other directors, but cheapens Leone's significance.

Yes, Eastwood's "style" is very different from Leone's. From the very beginning Eastwood defaulted to Standard Industry Practice.

It isn't what one borrows from others,  but how one adapts and extends what has been borrowed. As you yourself observed, Kurosawa and Ford were only starting points for Leone. SL built on their work and thus developed a unique style that enriched the filmmaking tradition. Eastwood, by contrast, has never innovated, only recapitulated what has come before.

Unforgiven is not a rip-off of Leone's work. More's the pity.

There is no appreciable difference between the cinemas of Ron Howard, Joel Shumacher, and Clint Eastwood.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Sonny on July 24, 2007, 03:17:58 PM
SL did not "spawn" the SW sub-genre, by his own admission.

Comparing SLs with SWs does credit to other directors, but cheapens Leone's significance.

Yes, Eastwood's "style" is very different from Leone's. From the very beginning Eastwood defaulted to Standard Industry Practice.

It isn't what one borrows from others,  but how one adapts and extends what has been borrowed. As you yourself observed, Kurosawa and Ford were only starting points for Leone. SL built on their work and thus developed a unique style that enriched the filmmaking tradition. Eastwood, by contrast, has never innovated, only recapitulated what has come before.

Unforgiven is not a rip-off of Leone's work. More's the pity.

There is no appreciable difference between the cinemas of Ron Howard, Joel Shumacher, and Clint Eastwood.

Of course Sergio Leone made spaghetti westerns... By definition, SPAGHETTI westerns are made BY Italians, filmed IN Italy or made with Italian actors.
And that does not discredit SL's work just because SWs in general following his work were (and still are) looked down upon by the general public. 

And yes, Unforgiven is not a "rip-off" of Leone's work.  I think Eastwood just likes to experiment, I mean just look at the variety of topics in his films.  Sure, they don't compare with Leone's , but that's the whole point... they're not supposed to.  Eastwood's work can be considered a masterpiece without being compared to Leone's, even if Leone played a role in his influence.  That's only natural
after all the work they did together; Eastwood being a young actor admiring the director's work.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Silenzio on July 24, 2007, 03:42:38 PM
Then what IS your point, exactly? Each of SL's films are masterpieces, the products of painstaking craftsmanship. They are worlds away from Eastwood's middling efforts.

You said that calling something the best Eastwood western isn't a boast because he only made four.  Whereas it becomes clear that what you meant is that it wasn't much of a boast because none of them are that great.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: dave jenkins on July 24, 2007, 04:41:11 PM
You said that calling something the best Eastwood western isn't a boast because he only made four.  Whereas it becomes clear that what you meant is that it wasn't much of a boast because none of them are that great.
But both can be true. It may be that if Eastwood had made only Westerns, he might have eventually produced one of note.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 24, 2007, 09:58:37 PM
People who knock Clint's films are speaking out their asss. I'm sorry, he's made some great films, period. The problem is, many fans are Sergio are expecting LEONE type films and they're not getting them. When this happens, they put down Eastwood. Clint is one of the best filmmakers in Hollywood today, period. His work speaks for itself.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Albus Dingleberry on July 24, 2007, 10:00:18 PM
People who knock Clint's films are speaking out their asss. I'm sorry, he's made some great films, period. The problem is, many fans are Sergio are expecting LEONE type films and they're not getting them. When this happens, they put down Eastwood. Clint is one of the best filmmakers in Hollywood today, period. His work speaks for itself.


exactly! I've read on here a few posts about wanting Leone type clones and that they are all that's worth making.
this is untrue. anybody who believes that obviously has a narrow minded view on westerns.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Kurug3n on July 24, 2007, 10:04:56 PM
anybody who believes that obviously has a narrow minded view on westerns.

Well American Westerns at least O0


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 24, 2007, 10:13:56 PM

exactly! I've read on here a few posts about wanting Leone type clones and that they are all that's worth making.
this is untrue. anybody who believes that obviously has a narrow minded view on westerns.

Thank you. Clint is a a student of film, period. As I've mentioned before, his work speaks for itself.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Silenzio on July 24, 2007, 11:05:51 PM

exactly! I've read on here a few posts about wanting Leone type clones and that they are all that's worth making.
this is untrue. anybody who believes that obviously has a narrow minded view on westerns.

I agree with you 100%.

And I agree that Unforgiven is an excellent film, no matter what DJ says.  TOJW and HPD are great too, I'd say.  Although Pale Rider.........  :(


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Albus Dingleberry on July 24, 2007, 11:14:32 PM
I agree with you 100%.

And I agree that Unforgiven is an excellent film, no matter what DJ says.  TOJW and HPD are great too, I'd say.  Although Pale Rider.........  :(


I like the pale rider. cool remake of high plains drifter.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Silenzio on July 24, 2007, 11:17:04 PM

I like the pale rider. cool remake of high plains drifter.

 ???  You must mean shane.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Albus Dingleberry on July 24, 2007, 11:20:47 PM
???  You must mean shane.

HELL NO!

i mean PALE RIDER.

eastwood would never think to make a remake of such a boring stinker (shane).


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Silenzio on July 24, 2007, 11:27:32 PM
HELL NO!

i mean PALE RIDER.

eastwood would never think to make a remake of such a boring stinker (shane).

But you do realize he originally made High Plains Drifter as a remake of Stagecoach, right?


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Albus Dingleberry on July 24, 2007, 11:29:03 PM
But you do realize he originally made High Plains Drifter as a remake of Stagecoach, right?

yeah right dawg!

black and white films are boring. again, eastwood is way too cool to make a boring movie.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Silenzio on July 24, 2007, 11:30:43 PM
again, eastwood is way too cool to make a boring movie.


Bridges of Madison County ???


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Albus Dingleberry on July 24, 2007, 11:31:17 PM

Bridges of Madison County ???

haven;t seen it


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Silenzio on July 24, 2007, 11:33:23 PM
haven;t seen it

Don't.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Albus Dingleberry on July 24, 2007, 11:34:36 PM
Don't.

why not?


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Albus Dingleberry on July 24, 2007, 11:35:55 PM
no offense,  but don't care what you say man.

this looks bad ass!

(http://loconotion.net/media/images/film/posters/Bridges%20of%20Madison%20County.jpg)


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Silenzio on July 24, 2007, 11:36:46 PM
I'm sorry i was so wrong  :-[


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Albus Dingleberry on July 25, 2007, 12:01:31 AM
I'm sorry i was so wrong  :-[

you damn right you were. clint doesn't make bad films.
i'm a film student and i know what i'm talking about.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Sonny on July 25, 2007, 12:12:07 AM

i'm a film student and i know what i'm talking about.

Do you?


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Albus Dingleberry on July 25, 2007, 12:31:20 AM
Do you?


I already told you "yes".


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Sonny on July 25, 2007, 12:42:02 AM

I already told you "yes".

Did you?


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: noodles_leone on July 25, 2007, 05:57:40 AM
Don't.

Do.

I'm sorry, everybody should watch the Bridges of Madison County. i'm sure many people are going to hate it, but this movie is seen as a masterpiece by many people (including me :) ), and even if you find it boring, no one can assert this is only a BAD movie. Clint has never done anything that worths nothing. As I've said before, his work is often flawed, I'm the first to admit that. But it is ALWAYS interesting. And Madison is certainly one of his most personal film (if not the most). It doesn't even seem flawed to me. It seems perfect. (but maybe Silenzio is too young to appreciate it. He's at least TWO YEARS younger than me. At least  :P ).


Once again, generaly speaking, their is nothing in common between a BAD movie and a FLAWED movie (even if a abd movie is usualy flawed). DYS is IMO and for most people a flawed movie. Would anyone here assert that it's a bad movie? i would only say it's a masterpiece...


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: cigar joe on July 25, 2007, 07:26:03 AM
I'm saying Eastwood has just about taken us back to the "mellers" we had before Leone BL


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Silenzio on July 25, 2007, 10:02:21 AM
Do.

I'm sorry, everybody should watch the Bridges of Madison County. i'm sure many people are going to hate it, but this movie is seen as a masterpiece by many people (including me :) ), and even if you find it boring, no one can assert this is only a BAD movie. Clint has never done anything that worths nothing. As I've said before, his work is often flawed, I'm the first to admit that. But it is ALWAYS interesting. And Madison is certainly one of his most personal film (if not the most). It doesn't even seem flawed to me. It seems perfect. (but maybe Silenzio is too young to appreciate it. He's at least TWO YEARS younger than me. At least  :P ).


Once again, generaly speaking, their is nothing in common between a BAD movie and a FLAWED movie (even if a abd movie is usualy flawed). DYS is IMO and for most people a flawed movie. Would anyone here assert that it's a bad movie? i would only say it's a masterpiece...

To be honest i've never seen Bridges of Madison County... but it was the only response I could come up with.   ;D


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: noodles_leone on July 25, 2007, 10:05:20 AM
:):):)


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 25, 2007, 11:24:24 PM
My favorite lines where the last lines Clint spoke in the movie.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 25, 2007, 11:27:31 PM
My favorite lines where the last lines Clint spoke in the movie.

"You better bury Ned right! Better not go cuttin' up, nor otherwise harm no whores. Or I'll come back and kill every one of you sons-o-bitches."

Chilling. This scene blows me away. Great direction, and great acting here by Clint. 


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 25, 2007, 11:28:26 PM
To me it makes the whole film worth watching on first viewing, I really enjoyed it on second viewing.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 25, 2007, 11:31:00 PM
To me it makes the whole film worth watching on first viewing, I really enjoyed it on second viewing.

I'm obsessed with this film as you can tell. The opening, and closing credit sequences, a long with "Claudia's Theme" playing, are some of the best credit sequences ever filmed. It's a thing of beauty.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 25, 2007, 11:33:06 PM
Yeah, sometimes I put put the dvd on my laptop and skip to the end credits just so i can listen to the music.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 25, 2007, 11:39:10 PM
Yeah, sometimes I put put the dvd on my laptop and skip to the end credits just so i can listen to the music.

Do you own the soundtrack Kevin? It's worth it just for that beautiful piece of music alone. I listen to it frequently being a huge fan of musical scores. Anyway, here's some imagines from those beautiful credit sequences and some other's.


(http://www.filmdailies.com/images/unforgiven1.jpg)

(http://website.lineone.net/~andrewhdknock/UnforgivenGraveside.jpg)

(http://www.wallpaperbase.com/wallpapers/movie/unforgiven/unforgiven_1.jpg)

(http://homepages.nyu.edu/~lb620/2003pics/unforgiven.jpg)


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 25, 2007, 11:40:38 PM
I imagine the soundtrack would be short right?

Ah yes I loved that sunset.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 25, 2007, 11:41:54 PM
I imagine the soundtrack would be short right?

Ah yes I loved that sunset.

Yes, the soundtrack is short. You could pick it up pretty cheap though.

Yes, that sunset is beautiful. The cinematography in that scene is amazing. This film deserved every reward it won, and them some.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 25, 2007, 11:44:45 PM
Yeah definetly better than A Few Good Men, and the crying game. Though Pacino's performance in The Scent of a Woman was superb...he deserved that oscar.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 25, 2007, 11:48:32 PM
Yeah definetly better than A Few Good Men, and the crying game. Though Pacino's performance in The Scent of a Woman was superb...he deserved that oscar.

I agree with you there about Pacino. I absolutely get pissed off when people say Al didn't deserve this award, and that it was just given to him. That's a crock. Al was magnificent in Scent of a Woman.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 25, 2007, 11:50:33 PM
Yeah, I'd like to see them say that after watching that scene where he gives the speech at the end "If I were the man I was five years ago, I take a flame thrower to this place!" Best scene in the movie.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Silenzio on July 25, 2007, 11:51:03 PM
Scent of a Woman.

HOOAH!


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 25, 2007, 11:51:46 PM
Yeah, I'd like to see them say that after watching that scene where he gives the speech at the end "If I were the man I was five years ago, I take a flame thrower to this place!" Best scene in the movie.

That scene gives me chills. Al has such a great screen presence! I love his voice. He commands attention.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 25, 2007, 11:55:35 PM
He is just great in so many films, the godfather trilogy, sperico, ...and justice for all, dog day afternoon, to me the only good thing about scarface.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 25, 2007, 11:59:17 PM
He is just great in so many films, the godfather trilogy, sperico, ...and justice for all, dog day afternoon, to me the only good thing about scarface.

Also fantastic in Heat, Glengary Glen Ross, Dick Tracy, The Insider, Any Given Sunday, Scarecrow, Carlito's Way, Angels in America, and The Merchant of Venice. He is arguably the greatest living actor. I've also read he is mind blowing on stage.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 26, 2007, 12:03:56 AM
Also fantastic in Heat, Glengary Glen Ross, Dick Tracy, The Insider, Any Given Sunday, Scarecrow, Carlito's Way, Angels in America, and The Merchant of Venice. He is arguably the greatest living actor. I've also read he is mind blowing on stage.

I've seen Angels in America, and yes he was awesome in that film. To me that's his best peformance since Scent of a Woman.

Oh yeah I would love to see him on stage. One of the greatest actors, and one of the top three best in method acting, the other do being Brando and De Niro.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 26, 2007, 12:07:19 AM
I've seen Angels in America, and yes he was awesome in that film. To me that's his best peformance since Scent of a Woman.

Oh yeah I would love to see him on stage. One of the greatest actors, and one of the top three best in method acting, the other do being Brando and De Niro.

Some people claim De Niro is better. I think they're sadly mistakin. I love Robert, and he's one of my favorite actor's ever. His talent is great but I think Al has a lot more range than him as an actor. Al is from the theatre first, he loves the theatre more than film. Robert on the other hand shy's away from the stage. You can see how shy he is in interviews and such. Have you ever seen De Niro attempt to cry in movies? He can't do it. Just watch in Goodfellas when he finds out the news Tommy had been killed. This scene is not supposed to be funny, but the way De Niro starts crying is absolutely hilarious. I put Al above him just a tad.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 26, 2007, 12:09:15 AM
Some people claim De Niro is better. I think they're sadly mistakin. I love Robert, and he's one of my favorite actor's ever. His talent is great but I think Al has a lot more range than him as an actor. Al is from the theatre first, he loves the theatre more than film. Robert on the other hand shy's away from the stage. You can see how shy he is in interviews and such. Have you ever seen De Niro attempt to cry in movies? He can't do it. Just watch in Goodfellas when he finds out the news Tommy had been killed. This scene is not supposed to be funny, but the way De Niro starts crying is absolutely hilarious. I put Al above him just a tad.

Well I can never say which actor is better, but I will have to disagree with you over De Niro crying, I thought he was really convincing in The Deer Hunter. One of his best peformances, and I felt for him when he cried in the end.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 26, 2007, 12:11:36 AM
Well I can never say which actor is better, but I will have to disagree with you over De Niro crying, I thought he was really convincing in The Deer Hunter. One of his best peformances, and I felt for him when he cried in the end.

You got me there. Yes, the first Russian Roulette scene is one of the most intense and heartbreaking scenes ever filmed. The acting here was flawless. Such a great film.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 26, 2007, 12:16:06 AM
You got me there. Yes, the first Russian Roulette scene is one of the most intense and heartbreaking scenes ever filmed. The acting here was flawless. Such a great film.

Yeah, I wonder what it took for De Niro to make that scene so convincing, since he always plays a hard man. I just can't say who's the better actor, but I do think Brando tops both of them.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 26, 2007, 12:21:35 AM
Yeah, I wonder what it took for De Niro to make that scene so convincing, since he always plays a hard man. I just can't say who's the better actor, but I do think Brando tops both of them.

The reason why I give Brando the edge probably is because Al and Bob are students of him. They look up to Marlon from what I read.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 26, 2007, 12:24:21 AM
Yeah Brando is credited to be the first method actor in hollywood. Some actor, I forgot his name but he is very talented, he said "Before Brando, actors were just acting, and after Brando, they behaved!"

That pretty much sums up how Marlon changed the way actors perform.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 26, 2007, 12:26:25 AM
Yeah Brando is credited to be the first method actor in hollywood. Some actor, I forgot his name but he is very talented, he said "Before Brando, actors were just acting, and after Brando, they behaved!"

That pretty much sums up how Marlon changed the way actors performed.

That's a great quote decribing Brando. It's so damn true. If you look at the actor's before Brando, they were a lot different in terms of style. A bit on the wooden side. If you look back, and really study some of these old films, watch Hollywood progress in it's acting as Brando's career went on. He definitely changed acting for film forever in my opinion.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 26, 2007, 12:29:10 AM
That's a great quote decribing Brando. It's so damn true. If you look at the actor's before Brando, they were a lot different in terms of style. A bit on the wooden side. If you look back, and really study some of these old films, watch Hollywood progress in it's acting as Brando's career went on. He definitely changed acting for film forever in my opinion.

I do agree, a lot of performances before Brando did seem "wooden". Though notable exceptions would be Laurence Olivier and James Stewart. I read somewhere when Laurence was filming marathon man with accomplished method actor Dustin Hoffman, he learns that Dustin hadn't slept for a few nights to get into his character, and Laurence's reaction was "Why don't you try acting my dear boy?" Easy for him to say!


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 26, 2007, 12:30:56 AM
I do agree, a lot of performances before Brando did seem "wooden". Though notable exceptions would be Laurence Olivier and James Stewart. I read somewhere when Laurence was filming marathon man with accomplished method actor Dustin Hoffman, he learns that Dustin hadn't slept for a few nights to get into his character, and Laurence's reaction was "Why don't you try acting my dear boy?" Easy for him to say!

hahaha it's amazing what some of these actors do to prepare for roles. Did you know James Cagney laughed at actors like Brando and De Niro and did not understand why they put so much stress on themselves to prepare for roles. If you read up on James Cagney, he was a pretty interesting fellow. There's a guy who could act in my opinion. He was ahead of his time.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 26, 2007, 12:37:18 AM
hahaha it's amazing what some of these actors do to prepare for roles. Did you know James Cagney laughed at actors like Brando and De Niro and did not understand why they put so much stress on themselves to prepare for roles. If you read up on James Cagney, he was a pretty interesting fellow. There's a guy who could act in my opinion. He was ahead of his time.

I know James Cagney for Yankee Doodle Dandy, a film I just know of for his performance, but haven't seen it. Yes many accomplished stage actors have given their colorful opinions on "method acting"

Another great Olivier quote "My method is acting!"

I think the best example of what actors do to get into their role was Robert De Niro gaining 60lbs for Raging Bull. That could have killed him. And 1980 was a year of great perfomances, with De Niro and John Hurt as The Elephant Man. That must have been a tough calll.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 26, 2007, 12:40:51 AM
I know James Cagney for Yankee Doodle Dandy, a film I just know of for his performance, but haven't seen it. Yes many accomplished stage actors have given their colorful opinions on "method acting"

Another great Olivier quote "My method is acting!"

I think the best example of what actors do to get into their role was Robert De Niro gaining 60lbs for Raging Bull. That could have killed him. And 1980 was a year of great perfomances, with De Niro and John Hurt as The Elephant Man. That must have been a tough calll.

You gotta check out Cagney's Gangster Pictures. Amazing!

Angels With Dirty Faces
The Roaring Twenties
The Public Enemy
White Heat

Check those out bro when you get a chance!

1980 was indeed a great year for actors. John Hurt was amazing in The Elephant Man but I still give the edge to De Niro. That man transformed his body and he became Jake Lamotta. A pretty astonishing performance.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 26, 2007, 12:42:32 AM
You gotta check out Cagney's Gangster Pictures. Amazing!

Angels With Dirty Faces
The Roaring Twenties
The Public Enemy
White Heat

Check those out bro when you get a chance!

1980 was indeed a great year for actors. John Hurt was amazing in The Elephant Man but I still give the edge to De Niro. That man transformed his body and he became Jake Lamotta. A pretty astonishing performance.

I'll be sure to check them out.

One thing i found funny about the 1980 academy awards was how Timothy Hutton won an oscar for his supporting role in Ordinary People, yet he was the films central character. If he was nominated for lead he wouldn't stand a chance, but I loved his peformance.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 26, 2007, 12:50:34 AM
I'll be sure to check them out.

One thing i found funny about the 1980 academy awards was how Timothy Hutton won an oscar for his supporting role in Ordinary People, yet he was the films central character. If he was nominated for lead he wouldn't stand a chance, but I loved his peformance.

You're right. Hutton was great in Ordinary People. I liked Ordinary People but Raging Bull should have won best picture. I still don't understand till this day how that film won. On every 80's best films of the decade list, Raging Bull is always Number 1 nowadays. It seems like it's getting better with age. The detail Marty put into this film was unbelievable. I'm a huge boxing fan, a huge fan of it's rich history and let me tell you something, the atmosphere of those boxing scenes were captured perfectly on film. The smoked filled boxing arena, the flashing light bulbs as the camera's went off, the boxing lingo in the diologue, etc, etc. Brilliant! The editing of this film is also some of the best I've ever seen.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 26, 2007, 09:59:11 AM
You're right. Hutton was great in Ordinary People. I liked Ordinary People but Raging Bull should have won best picture. I still don't understand till this day how that film won. On every 80's best films of the decade list, Raging Bull is always Number 1 nowadays. It seems like it's getting better with age. The detail Marty put into this film was unbelievable. I'm a huge boxing fan, a huge fan of it's rich history and let me tell you something, the atmosphere of those boxing scenes were captured perfectly on film. The smoked filled boxing arena, the flashing light bulbs as the camera's went off, the boxing lingo in the diologue, etc, etc. Brilliant! The editing of this film is also some of the best I've ever seen.

that's the thing though, you being a huge boxing fan makes the film even more enjoyable for you. You have to understand boxing in order to enjoy the film. Like I said, 1980 was a tough call, there was also The Elephant Man, and that Polanski film.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 26, 2007, 01:09:00 PM
that's the thing though, you being a huge boxing fan makes the film even more enjoyable for you. You have to understand boxing in order to enjoy the film. Like I said, 1980 was a tough call, there was also The Elephant Man, and that Polanski film.

I don't think one would have to have boxing knowledge to enjoy this film. Just look at the direction, screenplay, and the acting! A true film fan should recognize that this film is a work of art in my opinion.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 26, 2007, 01:57:14 PM
It was a very well done film. De Niro and Peci had such great chemestry, they shared a trailer together so they can behave more like brothers.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 26, 2007, 04:39:58 PM
It was a very well done film. De Niro and Peci had such great chemestry, they shared a trailer together so they can behave more like brothers.

Yeah, I knew of this. That's great stuff.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 26, 2007, 09:57:45 PM
Who here seen Unforgiven in the theatre back in 1992? I can't say I did. I was only 11 years old.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 27, 2007, 09:55:48 AM
Who here seen Unforgiven in the theatre back in 1992? I can't say I did. I was only 11 years old.

I was four when it came out, I was a little young for it.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 27, 2007, 10:14:15 AM
I was four when it came out, I was a little young for it.

I dunno what my father was thinking. He's a huge fan of the western genre and Clint Eastwood for that matter and he went. HOW COME THAT SOB didn't bring me is what I'm wondering! >:( HHAHA


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: moviesceleton on July 27, 2007, 01:36:37 PM
I was four when it came out, I was a little young for it.
I'll top that: I was two when it came out :-\. I remember the TV spots, though.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 27, 2007, 03:43:06 PM
I'll top that: I was two when it came out :-\. I remember the TV spots, though.

The T.V. Spots were pretty damn cool from what I remember. Oh how excited I was!


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: moviesceleton on July 27, 2007, 03:47:09 PM
Sorry, that was meant to be a joke but evidently it didn't work. Really, I can't remember a God damn thing from those days.  ;D


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 27, 2007, 03:48:01 PM
Sorry, that was meant to be a joke but evidently it didn't work. Really, I can't remember a God damn thing from those days.  ;D

Well MS, I kinda figured you were messing around being you were only 2 years old. lol I just figured, why put down your post? ;)


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: cigar joe on July 27, 2007, 04:59:23 PM
Hey KevinJKCJK & Tucumcari_Bound this is getting embarising, either hose this down or take it to a motel room. ;)


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: moviesceleton on July 27, 2007, 05:04:01 PM
Hey KevinJKCJK & Tucumcari_Bound this is getting embarising, either hose this down or take it to a motel room. ;)
;D


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 27, 2007, 05:19:27 PM
Hey KevinJKCJK & Tucumcari_Bound this is getting embarising, either hose this down or take it to a motel room. ;)

 ;D AND what is that supposed to mean cigar?  :o


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 27, 2007, 08:33:43 PM
Yeah, what exactly are you implying cigar?


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: cigar joe on July 27, 2007, 08:35:15 PM
re read the love fest and decide for yourselves.  ;)


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 27, 2007, 09:37:40 PM
re read the love fest and decide for yourselves.  ;)

Oh come on cigar! We both love Unforgiven. Nothing wrong with that buddy.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 27, 2007, 09:38:25 PM
Funny guy that cigar.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 27, 2007, 09:51:10 PM
I think we should continue the great Unforgiven discussion Kevin! O0


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 27, 2007, 10:17:09 PM
Hell yeah!

How awesome was Richard Harris in this movie? I was watching this and I thought "I can't believe they got this guy to play Dumbledore!"


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Sonny on July 28, 2007, 12:06:00 AM
Hell yeah!

How awesome was Richard Harris in this movie? I was watching this and I thought "I can't believe they got this guy to play Dumbledore!"

I thought so too.  But then I realized how old he was when he played Dumbledore... Wow, it still amazes me.  Those Harry Potter movies have had nothing that's better quality than his acting.  After his death, my level of interest in those movies deteriorated.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 28, 2007, 09:03:29 AM
I thought so too.  But then I realized how old he was when he played Dumbledore... Wow, it still amazes me.  Those Harry Potter movies have had nothing that's better quality than his acting.  After his death, my level of interest in those movies deteriorated.

I'm a huge Richard Harris fan and his performance here was outstanding. He was such a wonderful actor. I have yet to see any of the Harry Potter films though. It never really interest me.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 28, 2007, 10:02:39 AM
Well the Harry Potter movies have a string of some of the most talented living actors in all of the U.K and Ireland. Alan Rickman, Gary Olman, Maggie Smith, Richard Harris, Michael Gambon (his replacement), Kenneth Brannagh, Ralph Fiennes, and Brenden Gleeson. The quality of the films were okay, I've always been a fan of the books.

Harris was only 72 in the films, I thought he would be older. He only accepted the role when his granddaughter threatened never to speak to him again if he turned it down. I think the reason he turned down the role because he was very sick at the time.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 28, 2007, 10:05:35 AM
Well the Harry Potter movies have a string of some of the most talented living actors in all of the U.K and Ireland. Alan Rickman, Gary Olman, Maggie Smith, Richard Harris, Michael Gambon (his replacement), Kenneth Brannagh, Ralph Fiennes, and Brenden Gleeson. The quality of the films were okay, I've always been a fan of the books.

Harris was only 72 in the films, I thought he would be older. He only accepted the role when his granddaughter threatened never to speak to him again if he turned it down. I think the reason he turned down the role because he was very sick at the time.

If he turned it down because he was sick and his granddaughter threatened him not to turn it down or she would never speak to him again, then I would have told that selfish little thing to take a hike!

Have you ever seen his performance in Major Dundee directed by Sam Peckinpah? He was great in this film.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: geoman-1 on July 28, 2007, 07:11:56 PM
I'm a huge Richard Harris fan and his performance here was outstanding. He was such a wonderful actor. I have yet to see any of the Harry Potter films though. It never really interest me.
Ever see Richard Harris in 1971's "Man In The Wilderness"? This is a must film for all R.H. fans.
It was the pinnacle of his career. Beautiful film and soundtrack.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 28, 2007, 07:19:43 PM
Ever see Richard Harris in 1971's "Man In The Wilderness"? This is a must film for all R.H. fans.
It was the pinnacle of his career. Beautiful film and soundtrack.

No I have not seen this geoman! Now that you mention it, I will! When somebody says beautiful film and soundtrack, I'm there!


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 28, 2007, 07:27:37 PM
what movie was it when he said the c-word over and over again?


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: The Firecracker on July 28, 2007, 07:32:28 PM
Horton hears a cunt


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 28, 2007, 11:04:36 PM
Horton hears a cunt

This is the name of a movie? ???


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: The Firecracker on July 28, 2007, 11:11:24 PM
This is the name of a movie? ???

Yes.

It's also the title of a children's book.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: geoman-1 on July 29, 2007, 07:59:27 AM
No I have not seen this geoman! Now that you mention it, I will! When somebody says beautiful film and soundtrack, I'm there!
If you liked Jeremiah Johnson you will love TMITW. Very little dialogue, stunning scenery
and that soundtrack is up there with the likes of DYS, OUATITW, et al.. You  become so absorbed
in this film that you don't want it to end. The first half is exciting but the second half is...well, you just have to watch it.
I rank this one in my top 10 of all genres. O0


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 29, 2007, 08:02:21 PM
Oh I can't believe Robert Downey Jr. was nominated for Chaplin with Clint, Al, and Denzel. That must have been a very tough call. Too bad Chaplin didn't come out another year, that was peformance was a winner.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 29, 2007, 08:58:01 PM
Oh I can't believe Robert Downey Jr. was nominated for Chaplin with Clint, Al, and Denzel. That must have been a very tough call. Too bad Chaplin didn't come out another year, that was peformance was a winner.

I agree. Downey was great as Chaplin. It was a great year of nominee's!


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 29, 2007, 11:43:03 PM
Chaplin is one of my favorite performances. Great to see a great actor play an even greator actor.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 30, 2007, 08:06:51 AM
Chaplin is one of my favorite performances. Great to see a great actor play an even greator actor.

Robert Downey Jr is another actor who doesn't get the credit he deserves, probably because of his drug troubles of years past. That still doesn't hide the fact that he's a great actor.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 30, 2007, 02:11:44 PM
Hopefully he will shine again, I loved him in Zodiac.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 30, 2007, 02:18:34 PM
Hopefully he will shine again, I loved him in Zodiac.

I agree, he was great in Zodiac.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Kurug3n on July 30, 2007, 03:01:59 PM
obviously you guys haven't seen A Scanner Darkly thats Robert's best work or at least my favorite O0


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 30, 2007, 08:20:56 PM
Who's in?! :) Everyone knows that's been talking to me here for awhile, now knows I think very highly of this film. For all of you who regard Unforgiven not only as a WESTERN classic, but as an overall film classic, post here!

There is an Unforgiven thread here started by cigar joe, but we were going off topic there and I didn't want our ranting to interfere with cigar's topic!  O0

NOTE. This thread is in now way suggesting that you're not allowed to post here if you don't agree with me. By all means, debate it!  O0


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Whalestoe on July 30, 2007, 08:36:07 PM
Join x3. My whole family agrees.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Silenzio on July 30, 2007, 08:36:50 PM
If we're going to play that way....

My english teacher joins.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 30, 2007, 08:39:23 PM
Join x3. My whole family agrees.

Well then, I love your whole family! haha


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 30, 2007, 08:40:02 PM
If we're going to play that way....

My english teacher joins.

Tell your english teacher to join the forum. We'll discuss this film.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 30, 2007, 09:11:34 PM
you're right, I haven't seen it! can it possibly be better than his peformance in Chaplin?


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 31, 2007, 11:26:47 AM
I had a feeling my Unforgiven Thread would be connected to this one. haha, hey I tried.  8)


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 31, 2007, 01:21:30 PM
I was laughing so hard when Will Munny finally put that hero worshipping writer in his place.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 31, 2007, 01:52:56 PM
I was laughing so hard when Will Munny finally put that hero worshipping writer in his place.

"All I can say is who's gonna be last." HAHAHA! ;D Classic Clint.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 31, 2007, 02:10:44 PM
He just killed those guys without breaking a sweat, and what does the writer do? Asks him who he killed first. haha. He must thought he was going to let him tag along. What an idiot.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 31, 2007, 02:44:58 PM
He just killed those guys without breaking a sweat, and what does the writer do? Asks him who he killed first. haha. He must thought he was going to let him tag along. What an idiot.

That's exactly what he wanted to do, tag along. He was basically on his shoulder while Clint was loading up and walking out. It looked like he was grabbing all his belongings and going with him just like he left English Bob in the dust for Little Bill. That was hilarious.  ;D


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 31, 2007, 03:11:15 PM
"I've always been lucky when it comes to killing folks!"

I would have ran out the door. It's great how all the deputies did what Munny told them and ran out the door instead of firing at them. That was bad ass.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 31, 2007, 09:33:33 PM
"I've always been lucky when it comes to killing folks!"

I would have ran out the door. It's great how all the deputies did what Munny told them and ran out the door instead of firing at them. That was bad ass.

I would love to see a film based on the character of William Munney in his younger days. Could you imagine?


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 31, 2007, 10:11:11 PM
Yeah I've love to see a film like that, see how he killed just about everything that walks and crawls.

Some believe that William Munny IS the Man with No Name. I don't believe it though.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on July 31, 2007, 10:43:42 PM
Yeah I've love to see a film like that, see how he killed just about everything that walks and crawls.

Some believe that William Munny IS the Man with No Name. I don't believe it though.

No way. I don't believe that for a second. The Man With No Name character was nothing like William Munney, especially how they described him in his younger days.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on July 31, 2007, 11:35:08 PM
exactly, Munny was a killer, Man with No Name was just an anti-hero who kills dozens of villians.

How about that whore...what was her name? the one who came up with the idea for the bounty? I wanted her to die so bad.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on August 01, 2007, 09:11:48 AM
exactly, Munny was a killer, Man with No Name was just an anti-hero who kills dozens of villians.

How about that whore...what was her name? the one who came up with the idea for the bounty? I wanted her to die so bad.

Strawberry Alice played by Frances Fisher. Yeah, she was an annoying SOB, I can admit that.

*Note* I dunno if you knew but The Actress Frances Fisher had a baby girl with Clint Eastwood back in 1993. Their daughter's name is Francesca Fisher-Eastwood. Their relationship didn't last though.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on August 01, 2007, 11:55:06 PM
I guess Francis is an example of life imitating art eh? just kidding.

Yeah I heard Clint was having more kids before his older kids were having grand kids.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on August 02, 2007, 08:22:40 AM
I guess Francis is an example of life imitating art eh? just kidding.

Yeah I heard Clint was having more kids before his older kids were having grand kids.

That's all Clint does is have kids. In the 70's he had two woman pregnant at the same time. He has two girls 4 months apart.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on August 02, 2007, 01:05:38 PM
that's pretty impressive for 70. I mean if that was a much younger guy he would be a scumbag, but for someone in his 70's that's amazing.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on August 02, 2007, 01:17:34 PM
that's pretty impressive for 70. I mean if that was a much younger guy he would be a scumbag, but for someone in his 70's that's amazing.

HAHAHAHAA no I ment in the 1970's. Clint's settled down now and is married. But, he did have a little girl a few years ago. She actually has a cameo in "Million Dollar Baby." Cute litte thing. Remember toward the end when Hilary Swank waves to the little girl in the car next to her at the gas station, that's Clint's daughter. Great scene by the way.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on August 02, 2007, 01:28:10 PM
HAHAHAHAA no I ment in the 1970's. Clint's settled down now and is married. But, he did have a little girl a few years ago. She actually has a cameo in "Million Dollar Baby." Cute litte thing. Remember toward the end when Hilary Swank waves to the little girl in the car next to her at the gas station, that's Clint's daughter. Great scene by the way.

Oh my mistake, I totally read it wrong.

I haven't seen Million Dollar Baby yet. Didn't it beat The Aviator?


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Kurug3n on August 02, 2007, 01:31:22 PM
Oh my mistake, I totally read it wrong.

I haven't seen Million Dollar Baby yet. Didn't it beat The Aviator?

yeah people are still wondering Why :-\


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on August 02, 2007, 01:31:39 PM
Oh my mistake, I totally read it wrong.

I haven't seen Million Dollar Baby yet. Didn't it beat The Aviator?

Yeah, it won Best Picture, Best Actress (Hilary Swank), Best Supporting Actor (Morgan Freeman), and Best Director (Clint Eastwood). Great film in my opinion. You should see it ASAP.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on August 02, 2007, 01:39:29 PM
yeah people are still wondering Why :-\

I stopped when The Departed came around, great film!


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on August 02, 2007, 01:40:41 PM
Yeah, it won Best Picture, Best Actress (Hilary Swank), Best Supporting Actor (Morgan Freeman), and Best Director (Clint Eastwood). Great film in my opinion. You should see it ASAP.

Oh I should see it then, and Clint was nominated for best actor but lost to Jamie Foxx. I thought Leo deserved that oscar.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on August 02, 2007, 01:44:58 PM
Oh I should see it then, and Clint was nominated for best actor but lost to Jamie Foxx. I thought Leo deserved that oscar.

So did I. Foxx was good but I thought his performance was a little overrated. He didn't even do his own singing like Joaquin Pheonix did for "Walk the Line", and he lost to Philip Semour Hoffman when I thought he should have won. But, that's just me. Clint could have easily won too.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Ben Tyreen on March 03, 2008, 04:40:04 PM
 Finally watched this for the first time all the way through.  I'd probably seen the whole movie before in bits and pieces but never in one sitting.  It wasn't a classic, but I did enjoy it.  I liked how it took its time telling the story and let all the characters converge late in the movie.  Eastwood and Freeman are always good together, Gene Hackman is always a reliable villain, Richard Harris was good as English Bob, and Jaimz Woolvett who I haven't seen in anything else was the perfect counter to Eastwood and Freeman's character as the Schofield Kid.

 The final shootout in the saloon was excellent, and I was really surprised to see Will Munny blow away the saloonkeeper.  We know the man's got a past but this is the first time we really see it come out.  I liked how that shootout came full circle to Hackman telling the writer about shooting accurately and fast draws.
 
 I can't rank it up there with the MWNN trilogy, but I really enjoyed it overall.  I'll say 8/10. O0


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Cusser on March 03, 2008, 05:13:18 PM
Hoping you saw it on TCM and/or letterboxed.  I saw it at theater in L.A. when it came out.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: The Firecracker on March 03, 2008, 05:17:34 PM
I'll say 8/10. O0


An agreeable rating. Perhaps a bit lower for me (only a bit!).

The movie perfectly builds up to a disappointing climax, which is my main gripe.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Tuco the ugly on March 03, 2008, 05:34:00 PM
The movie perfectly builds up to a disappointing climax, which is my main gripe.

I must disagree with this FC, I think it's great. Probably one of the best endings with an anti-hero in main role.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Ben Tyreen on March 03, 2008, 07:25:08 PM
Quote
Hoping you saw it on TCM and/or letterboxed.  I saw it at theater in L.A. when it came out.

 Yes, indeed, taped if off of TCM last night and watched it this afternoon.  There were some really beautiful shots, the opening and closing segments with the setting sun, and my favorite, the shot of Will Munny, Ned Logan, and the Schofield Kid riding through what looks like a wheat field.  Could have been something out of a painting. :)


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on March 06, 2008, 04:58:21 PM
Yes, indeed, taped if off of TCM last night and watched it this afternoon.  There were some really beautiful shots, the opening and closing segments with the setting sun, and my favorite, the shot of Will Munny, Ned Logan, and the Schofield Kid riding through what looks like a wheat field.  Could have been something out of a painting. :)


The damn film is a gritty masterpiece. It's funny how some put it down here. I laugh at them. It's a beautiful firlm in all regards. Clint Eastwood succeeded on all levels here. It just never gets old, period.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: tucumcari bound on August 22, 2008, 02:44:45 PM

Check out this "Unforgiven" video with Metallica's Apocalyptica music playing. Very powerful stuff!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwgohVvstnI


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: dave jenkins on November 12, 2008, 02:40:26 PM
Wow!!!! http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/screenshot.php?movieid=90&position=3


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Amaze on December 12, 2008, 10:06:52 AM
Check out this "Unforgiven" video with Metallica's Apocalyptica music playing. Very powerful stuff!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwgohVvstnI

that was really good. I need to watch this movie again soon


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Colonel GŁnther Ruiz on June 16, 2009, 05:19:43 PM
The first time I saw this (mid to late 90s) I was very disappointed and felt that Unforgiven was slow moving and boring, especially compared to the Dollars trilogy.  Mind you I was a teenager and was too immature to understand what Eastwood was getting at.  Ten or twelve years later, I finally watched it for a second time last night.  I enjoyed it alot more this time and feel that it is Eastwood's best directed Western (better than Outlaw Josey Wales and way better than Pale Rider and High Plains Drifter).  So I liked it but didn't love it.

The movie takes too long (fine with a Leone epic but drags here) and some characters (Morgan Freeman, the Kid) don't add much to the movie.  Hackman was a good villain and I liked the transformation of Eastwood from pitiful old man back to bad ass killer (his Will Munny is not a hero or even an antihero but a force of nature).  I also liked the way that people who talk alot about death and killing are cowards while the real killers (Eastwood and Hackman) are trying to leave killing behind them even though its the only thing they can do well.  But if Eastwood's main reason for making Unforgiven was to call into question the kinds of movies he made as a young man, then he failed.  Everyone (myself included) was waiting for the point where Eastwood rode back into town and killed the baddies.  Sorry Clint but thats why we watch your movies in the first place.  7.5/10


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: cigar joe on June 16, 2009, 07:09:22 PM
Quote
But if Eastwood's main reason for making Unforgiven was to call into question the kinds of movies he made as a young man, then he failed.  Everyone (myself included) was waiting for the point where Eastwood rode back into town and killed the baddies.  Sorry Clint but thats why we watch your movies in the first place.  7.5/10

This is exactly what I always say.  If any other actor had played the Munny part the film wouldn't have worked because we all new that sooner or later Eastwood would revert into the MWNN mode, lol. O0


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Colonel GŁnther Ruiz on June 16, 2009, 08:39:08 PM
This is exactly what I always say.  If any other actor had played the Munny part the film wouldn't have worked because we all new that sooner or later Eastwood would revert into the MWNN mode, lol. O0

Or what if Munny had rode back into town and Little Bill either beat the shit out of him again or just shot him?  Eastwood isn't stupid, he knows that we're waiting for him to kill Little Bill and his cronies.   ;D


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on February 04, 2011, 07:18:46 AM
I think this film is very overrated


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on January 21, 2012, 10:08:52 PM
this film was playing on AMC last nite. caught most of it, and my opinion is pretty much the same as my first viewing: very overrated movie.

some of the scenes work really well, particularly those in Big Whiskey. But some of the more quiet/mellow scenes with Munny and Ned don't work very well IMO -- the ones where he is reminiscing/regretting/seeking forgiveness, etc. I like when these themes are much more subtle, and you "get" what they are trying to say, rather than having it put in your face over and over and over again. How many times did Munny and/or Ned say the phrase "don't do that no more"? How many times did Munny talk about being haunted by someone he killed in his past? This could have been done much more subtly and we'd get the point, rather than being told the same thing over and over. It's a shame cuz there are indeed some scenes that work very well in the movie -- the ones involving Hackman, the writer, and basically everything in Big Whiskey. But the many scenes out in the fields, trying to drive home the same point repeatedly,  are what killed this movie for me.

Hackman was awesome; the rest of the cast was pretty good as well, but the kid who played Schofield Kid was horribly annoying


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Senza on March 10, 2013, 06:58:35 AM
I think the movie is slightly overrated, except for the ending. I'd probably give it 3/5 stars.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: uncknown on May 08, 2013, 10:44:37 PM
Uncknown: "Hey Tuco, what do you think of the posters here who don't think UNFORGIVEN is a classic film?

Tuco : "they're all a bunch of id..id..idi...

Uncknown : "Idiots"?

Tuco :"Yeah" IDIOTS!"


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on May 08, 2013, 10:56:41 PM
Not a very good movie, and not even close to Eastwood's masterpiece. That distinction goes to The Bridges of Madison County and Mystic River


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: dave jenkins on February 14, 2014, 07:43:32 AM
Yurusarezaru mono, the samurai remake of Unforgiven: http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=13249


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Sackett on February 21, 2014, 07:56:41 PM
Over the years I thought about some of the different levels of evil portrayed in the movie.  The cowboy's cutting of the whore.  The partiality of Little Bill toward the ranchers.  Killing for money .  English Bob's overt racism.  Little Bill's beating of English Bob.  The torture of Ned.  The dime store writer's glorification of shootouts.  Then of course, at the end, we see pure evil come out of hell in the personification of William Muny.  Maybe its not the best western, and maybe it was slow moving, but it packed it all in by showing the sobering effect killing can have and not just blood spurting spinning bodies with no consequences.  Then again, thats just me.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Dust Devil on February 25, 2014, 12:16:44 PM
Then of course, at the end, we see pure evil come out of hell in the personification of William Muny.

I don't think it was about that, him being pure evil, rather - him being just what his role in this life was.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: dave jenkins on February 25, 2014, 01:21:04 PM
I don't think it was about that, him being pure evil, rather - him being just what his role in this life was.
As in  . . . unforgiven?


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Dust Devil on February 27, 2014, 03:56:25 PM
As in  . . . unforgiven?

A pretty broad sweep, I think, which is why I never liked that title.

I'd have cared more for a neutral one, though right now I honestly can't think of one, hmm...


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: noodles_leone on February 27, 2014, 04:51:14 PM
The title of the script was "The Cut-Whore Killings" and the working title (which is on the film's slates) was "The William Munny Killings". That's neutral. Not great, thought.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: dave jenkins on February 27, 2014, 05:23:19 PM
Unforgiven is a thought-provoking title. It's a round-about way of saying "The Damned," which is a title so long overused that it had to be retired. So getting at the same sentiment indirectly I thought was pretty clever. And once you've got that sussed, you can sit back and wait for the reveal of who it is exactly the title is talking about. By the end you realize it's referring pretty much to everybody in the film (except maybe the cut-up whore who, unintentionally, started it all), but mostly, of course, William Munny.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on February 27, 2014, 08:45:07 PM
and perhaps he is indeed forgiven at the end......


I imagine "The Cut-Whore Killings" is not a great title to attract younger audiences. Actually, it's a great way to attract younger audiences, but not a great way to have their parents allow them to go  ;)


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: dave jenkins on February 28, 2014, 05:32:55 AM
and perhaps he is indeed forgiven at the end......
Hardly.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: Dust Devil on February 28, 2014, 06:07:36 AM
Yeah, that's why's the title pretty much a miss.

In the movie, the whole forgiving thing never takes flight, actually it isn't there at all. That's hinted at by Will Munny himself: ''deserve's got nothing to do with it''. There is no logical/merital (don't know if this word exists, but you know what I mean)/moral/ethical course of the cause and effect concept perpetuating itself by the doing (or undoing) of any character. Hence, Munny (here in focus, but could have easily been anyone else starting from Lil' Bill and the rest of the company) can not be trialed and in the extension forgiven/unforgiven by anyone (in the movie), for anything he did, past or present. Ironically, that's what everyone else in the movie - though obviously on a subconscious level - 'understands' (or better 'feels'). It takes Munny nearly 3.5/4 of the movie, and a handful of tries, self-pitying explanations and alibis to finally accept it, and start playing the gloriousless role he got in the circus of life.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: dave jenkins on February 28, 2014, 07:26:49 AM
He's the only self-aware character in the film. The others are damned without realizing it, and Munny comes to understand his true state (as you say) only after going through most of the film. But I guess its better to know you're damned than not know it. A very nihilistic film.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: dave jenkins on June 19, 2014, 05:00:31 PM
Unforgiven/Yurusarezaru Mono (2013), the Meiji-set remake of Eastwood's film, will show at the Japan Society on 15 July. I will probably go.


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: dave jenkins on June 22, 2014, 09:17:35 AM
Unforgiven/Yurusarezaru Mono (2013), the Meiji-set remake of Eastwood's film, will show at the Japan Society on 15 July. I will probably go.
Then the region-free Blu will be released in a Steelbook on July 28: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00KWDWK58/ref=gno_cart_title_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: noodles_leone on June 22, 2014, 09:31:06 AM
But the movie looks rather bad, doesn't it?


Title: Re: Unforgiven (1992)
Post by: dave jenkins on June 23, 2014, 04:16:13 PM
But the movie looks rather bad, doesn't it?
Dunno, haven't seen much about it.