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Films of Sergio Leone => Other Films => Topic started by: The Firecracker on March 13, 2006, 01:01:01 PM



Title: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: The Firecracker on March 13, 2006, 01:01:01 PM
Wow! This film(jeremiah johnson) is so wonderful.

The movie follows the escapades of mountain man Jeremiah johnson(robert redford) as he travels through the rocky mountains. The film is a relaxing romp for two hours with a wonderfully pleasent soundtrack. it takes its time to tell a story. It becomes a revenge picture the last 45 minutes of the film.

very nice film indeed.


I did some research on this character and as it turns out Jeremiah Johnson actually was a real person. however he was known as "Liver-eating Johnson" because it was rumored that he would eat the liver of indians he killed(which was not exaclty true, he openly admitted in an interview that he never did eat liver).


great film, check it out.


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: Banjo on March 14, 2006, 05:27:46 AM
Is this a recent film?i've only ever seen Redford in one western which is the wonderful Butch & Sundance film.
"Raindrops keep falling on my head!"etc...


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: Tim on March 14, 2006, 11:18:51 AM
  No, Banjo, its from 1972 so I wouldn't consider that recent.  ;D  Like Firecracker said, it's a very good movie, carried almost single-handedly by Redford, and well worth a rent or buy.


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: The Firecracker on March 14, 2006, 02:01:51 PM
  No, Banjo, its from 1972 so I wouldn't consider that recent.  ;D  Like Firecracker said, it's a very good movie, carried almost single-handedly by Redford, and well worth a rent or buy.

you beat me to the explanation Tim ;D

definatly worth a buy though. you can find it at an insultingly cheap price.

Much like "Once upon a time in the west", I recently saw it for $7.99. What an insult!!!!!!!



Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: cigar joe on July 15, 2006, 09:19:54 PM
Got if for $5.99 at the mall, well worth the bucks along with Yellow Sky.

Haven't seen this film since I saw it on the big screen in Missoula, Montana (Flathead Indian country) . Forgot how gorgeous the scenery was in the film. Great addition to my collection takes place in the 1830-40's or into the early 50's. A different kind of western, closer to "The Big Sky", "Last of the Mohicans", and "Drums Along The Mohawk" that flintlock era before cap & ball.

This is a good example of what we don't get on TCM or AMC, what is up with that, we keep getting reruns of John Wayne westerns and practically nothing else, I mean there were a whole slew of pretty decent American Westerns in the 70's that you just don't see anymore like they fell off the face of the earth.


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: The Peacemaker on July 15, 2006, 10:35:34 PM
Jeremiah Johnson was alright. A bit over-rated in my opinion.


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: cigar joe on July 16, 2006, 09:37:42 AM
Quote
Jeremiah Johnson was alright. A bit over-rated in my opinion.


I didn't think it was rated at all, lol.  You never see it on TV.

What I like is there is hardly any dialog, its a visual film and it does that very well, with a lot of very scenic shots that give a good feel of what it must have been like before the first wagon trains stated to cross the plains and Rockies.


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: The Peacemaker on July 16, 2006, 09:43:17 AM


I didn't think it was rated at all, lol.  You never see it on TV.


That's true, it's never on tv. I saw it on DVD from Hollywood Video.


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: cigar joe on July 16, 2006, 10:08:51 AM
don't rent it expecting a shootout western  8)


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: The Peacemaker on July 16, 2006, 10:09:44 AM
don't rent it expecting a shootout western  8)

I wasn't at all, but it still didn't live up to my expectations. Maybe I'll pick it up and try watching it again.


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: cigar joe on July 16, 2006, 10:45:07 AM
Quote
I wasn't at all, but it still didn't live up to my expectations.

What exactly were you expecting?   ???

Its better than the Hollywood extravaganza cartoonish Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid with the dreaded "Raindrops totally take you out of the fim shmaltzy interlude".  8)


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: geoman-1 on July 16, 2006, 12:09:19 PM
Firecracker,

Great film and a great director (Sydney Pollack).
If you liked this movie I am sure you would especially
enjoy "MAN IN THE WILDERNESS". It is of the same genre with miniscule dialogue. The soundtrack is stirring and magnificent. Richard Harris is remarkable in this film. Do yourself a favor and RENT THIS MOVIE!! You won't be disappointed.
It is definitely in my top five films of all times. 8) 8) 8) 8)


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: The Firecracker on July 16, 2006, 02:12:28 PM
Firecracker,

Great film and a great director (Sydney Pollack).
If you liked this movie I am sure you would especially
enjoy "MAN IN THE WILDERNESS". It is of the same genre with miniscule dialogue. The soundtrack is stirring and magnificent. Richard Harris is remarkable in this film. Do yourself a favor and RENT THIS MOVIE!! You won't be disappointed.
It is definitely in my top five films of all times. 8) 8) 8) 8)

Thanks for the heads up geoman!

I will most definatly check this out. I have seen you mention this before.


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: cigar joe on July 16, 2006, 07:00:32 PM
yea a very similar film. Really gives that out there all alone feeling.


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: Tim on July 17, 2006, 11:20:56 AM
Quote
Great film and a great director (Sydney Pollack).

  geoman, have you seen The Scalphunters with Burt Lancaster, Ossie Davis, Telly Savalas, and Shelley Winters?  A very good western that seems to fly under the radar.

  And it's not a western, but how about another Pollack/Lancaster movie, Castle Keep?  Trippy WWII movie with great cast, good humor, and slam-bang finish.


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: Poggle on July 17, 2006, 02:49:29 PM
What's disappointing about the Encore Western Channel is that of the American westerns they show there are hardly ever any John Ford westerns. There's also only a SW every now and then but never an interesting one, something usually hardly detectable as a SW, but Vengeance was a great movie I taped from there. If the Western Channel showed more Ford and SW's I'd never get to sleep at night.


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: The Firecracker on July 17, 2006, 03:03:39 PM
There's also only a SW every now and then but never an interesting one, something usually hardly detectable as a SW, but Vengeance was a great movie I taped from there.

and they only usually put them at some unGodly hour of the night like 3 am.

and your right..
"Vengeance" is the only good sw they have been putting on for the past year.
I saw "roy colt and winchester Jack" from Encore westerns and it was terrible. Mario Bava should be ashamed.
They never put on any Nero sw. The Mercenary hasnt been shown for years. how about "Deaf Smitty and Johnny ears", "Long live your death" or even "cry Onion"? Surly Nero is much more known then Richard Harrison.


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: geoman-1 on July 19, 2006, 03:54:58 PM
  geoman, have you seen The Scalphunters with Burt Lancaster, Ossie Davis, Telly Savalas, and Shelley Winters?  A very good western that seems to fly under the radar.

 
No...but thanks for the heads-up. I will surely check them out ;)


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: tucumcari bound on October 04, 2007, 01:02:30 PM
I absolutely loved this film. I've read that it's Robert Redford's favorite film he's been involved in and I can see why. Beautifully filmed by Sydney Pollack who uses his widescreen photography to his advantage. Very atmospheric western with minimal diologue, which is a plus. Not to be missed!


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: Juan Miranda on October 05, 2007, 06:14:15 PM
And some say he's up there still.

Beautifully filmed by Sydney Pollack who uses his widescreen photography to his advantage.

Pollack did a great job as director, but the movie was actually filmed by cinematographer by Duke Callaghan.


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: tucumcari bound on October 05, 2007, 06:33:52 PM
And some say he's up there still.

Pollack did a great job as director, but the movie was actually filmed by cinematographer by Duke Callaghan.

Thanks for that info Juan!


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: noodles_leone on April 23, 2009, 08:51:48 PM
I didn't think it was rated at all, lol.  You never see it on TV.

Isn't it famous in the US?? It's one of the most famous westerns in France... behind the Leone ones, Dance With The Wolves and Unforgiven.

Great movie, I'll try to catch it again one of these days...


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: cigar joe on April 24, 2009, 05:38:17 AM
Its not that famous now only aficianado's know of it, like I said its never showed on TV, its pretty much dropped from conscienceness here. Everything is now geared to the 10-25 year old generation there is no continuity with the past everthing is what's new hear & now, hear today gone tomorrow. 

Its like Warhol predicted you get your 15 minutes of fame and then you are history.


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: Sonny on April 26, 2009, 11:20:58 AM
Its not that famous now only aficianado's know of it, like I said its never showed on TV, its pretty much dropped from conscienceness here. Everything is now geared to the 10-25 year old generation there is no continuity with the past everthing is what's new hear & now, hear today gone tomorrow. 

Its like Warhol predicted you get your 15 minutes of fame and then you are history.

The first time I heard of the film Jeremiah Johnson was when it was playing on AMC.. (it does come on every couple of moths or so on that channel) and I've wanted to see it for the longest time but I always catch it at the middle or toward the end. But yeah, AMC is geared more toward the old timers.. even though it plays movies like Pulp Fiction once a year or so. It's one of the better American channels in my opinion, doesn't play many westerns but many of the films it plays are uncut.

(I watched The Day the Earth Stood Still on amc the other day, completely uncut, I was happy)





Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: Dust Devil on May 22, 2009, 06:30:45 PM
Jeremiah Johnson is probably the best of those rare few movies that dared to (try to) portrait and explore the life on the thorny Old Frontier. Without too much pathetic, affectation, moralizing and smart lines, this frontier-trapper Western often lets the wowed spectator enjoy the serenity and crude beauty of the life in the mountainous wilderness, but cuts right to the chase without hesitation when situation demands it.

The only problem I have is the second part, when it becomes more or less a revenge story. Well, perhaps ''problem'' is not the best way to describe it, it is more a matter or personal preference. I'm not saying I don't like the unpretentious but thoughtful way it was done in the movie, it's just that I wouldn't mind a slightly more subtle documentary approach, like in the first 2/3 of the movie.

Still a beautiful movie.


8.2/10


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: Dust Devil on May 22, 2009, 06:58:06 PM
For those of you that liked Jeremiah Johnson, I'd suggest to check out the Italian comic book series Ken Parker if possible. The character of Ken Parker is based on Robert Redford's interpretation of JJ. Some character's specificities are kept throughout the series but all in all it's a pretty different and original series. I think you won't be disappointed. It is considered to be one of the best comic book series about the Old West; the range and quality of the elaborated subjects are truly amazing. Needless to say, it was received far better by the critics than the audience, although it has a strong cult following.

Though, I don't know if it's available in English...


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: Dust Devil on May 22, 2009, 07:09:24 PM
One thing I forgot to ask: what's the name of that thing Swan (the squaw) was cooking, and JJ wouldn't eat it?

I've found out it could be something called ''frybread'' or ''bannock'' (in today's US), a type of flatbread. Could that be it?

I think I've heard somewhere it is made of tapioca, but Wikipedia says tapioca is used only by South American Indians...


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: cigar joe on May 22, 2009, 10:05:54 PM
frybread is exactly like Italian zeppole.


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: Dust Devil on May 22, 2009, 10:24:39 PM
Doesn't quite look the same:

1) zeppole: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeppole

2) frybread: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frybread

3) bannock: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bannock_(food)


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: Groggy on June 29, 2009, 04:34:05 PM
To follow up on my brief comments in the RTLMYS thread...

Quote
In lieu of reviewing yet another mediocre musical I stupidly decided to watch (hello, Dreamgirls!), here's a review of Sydney Pollack's 1972 Western Jeremiah Johnson - a decidedly unique and different Western of a sort rarely made by Hollywood, or anyone else really. It has a lot more going for it than mere novelty, however.

The title character (Robert Redford) is a drifter and presumed Army deserter who, in around 1850, decides to strike out for the wide-open frontier of the Old West and live as a self-sufficient mountaineer. Jeremiah struggles to adapt to his new life, until he's helped by grizzled fur trapper Bear Claw (Will Geer) and eccentric ne'er-do-well Del Gue (Stefan Gierasch). Jeremiah befriends a tribe of Flatnose Indians and marries Swan (Delle Bolton), the daughter of their chief (Richard Angarola); he also adopts an orphaned boy (Josh Albee) who has survived a Blackfeet massacre, and the trio set up shop in the mountains. When Jeremiah helps a troop of cavalry cross a mountain pass on sacred Crow land, however, a - leading Jeremiah on a long and bloody vendetta against his family's killers.

Jeremiah Johnson scores some points for its premise alone. The story of trappers and mountain-men is only rarely told in Hollywood; while pop culture of the 19th and early 20th Centuries celebrated "squaw men" like Davy Crocket and Daniel Boone, who forsook white society for solitary existence in the Wilderness, few movies have actually been made on the subject. Certainly it's refreshing to see a film mostly bereft of the usual gunslinger/pioneer/bandit/cowboys-and-Indians trappings. But it's more than just the idea and story that sells the film. From the dialogue to the music to the gorgeous scenery to the pitch-perfect cast, the film has a complete sense of authenticity.

The film's wonderful moral ambiguity is perhaps its best feature. It lacks the politicking of many contemporary Westerns (The Wild Bunch, Ulzana's Raid, Duck You Sucker!), and mostly lacks the conventional heroics one might expect from the genre; it simply tells a story well. The film is mostly careful to avoid painting either Indians or settlers as "bad", which is welcome; along with Black Robe and Broken Arrow, it's one of the few films to give a nuanced and fairly accurate depiction of Native Americans without resorting to the Noble Savage stereotype of, say, Dances With Wolves or Little Big Man. The cavalry troop violates Crow land but only to deliver food and supplies to starving settlers (shades of the Donner Party?); the Crow's raid on the Johnson homestead is merely a retaliation against that. Jeremiah's vendetta against the Crow is the only part of the film that approaches cliche or convention, but the film redeems the blood-soaked heroics with a wonderfully unexpected conclusion. Commendably, the film doesn't make any broad statements about imperialism or settlement of the West; it's simply the story of a man trying to survive in a rough and cruel wilderness. And for that, the film deserves a lot of commendation.

Sydney Pollack provides wonderful direction; he uses his cast economically and well, and makes the most of a truly awe-inspiring set of locations. The film has an endless variety of beautiful scenery, from frozen, snowbound mountain-tops to sandy desert to pristine woodland; the movie certainly has a lot of variety in its locations, all captured beautifully by Duke Callaghan's cinematography. The art direction and costume design are rough-hewn and period-perfect, creating a wonderful sense of authenticity. The music is also worthy of praise: Tim McIntire and John Rubinstein contribute a wonderfully authentic, rustic and evocative score that adds immeasurably to the film.

Special praise, I think, goes out for the script: if there's a better duo of collaborating screenwriters than John Milius (The Wind and the Lion) and Edward Anhalt (Becket) out there (maybe Robert Bolt and Michael Wilson), I'd like to know about it; their script is wonderfully economical and sparse, with long passages without speaking; the scant dialogue that is provided is appropriately rustic and colorful without overdoing it. This is one of the few Westerns that actually sounds period-authentic in its dialogue.

Robert Redford carries most of the film admirably; his tough, misanthropic mountain man is a departure from his usual breezy persona, and Redford gives very near a career-best turn. The film is very frequently stolen, however, by a colorful supporting cast, particularly Will Geer as the wily trapper who teaches Jeremiah the tricks of the trade, and Stefan Gierasch as an eccentric drifter with a grudge against Indians. The Indian cast acquits themselves well; Joaquin Martinez, Richard Angalora and the beautiful Del Bolton all give brief but fine performances.

Jeremiah Johnson is a great film and a wonderfully unique and original entry in the Western genre. Many other Westerns are better as entertainment and art, but few match the film's stark, unforgiving sense of realism.

Rating: 8/10 - Highly Recommended

http://nothingiswrittenfilm.blogspot.com/2009/06/jeremiah-johnson.html (http://nothingiswrittenfilm.blogspot.com/2009/06/jeremiah-johnson.html)


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: cigar joe on June 29, 2009, 06:27:57 PM
Doesn't quite look the same:

1) zeppole: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeppole

2) frybread: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frybread

3) bannock: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bannock_(food)

You can add funnel cakes, elephant ears, and pettole to those, they are very similar in taste just different shapes and different toppings ie. granulated sugar, powdered sugar, cinnamon & sugar, frosting etc.

4) funnel cakes: http://mymouthful.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/funnel_cake.jpg

5) elephant ears: http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1285/1332876557_fb8752125a.jpg

6) pettole: http://www.mammamya.com/Recipe%20Pages/pettole.htm

My grandmother used to make something similar just eggs, flour, milk, and water, with a pinch of salt & a pinch of sugar (no yeast) mix together in a frying pan and spoon into hot olive oil so the form small pancakes, when they get brown take them out and drain them on a piece of paper towel then just sprinkle both sides with sugar and eat. She called them "palleti" but she was Northern Italian.


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: Groggy on June 29, 2009, 06:51:59 PM
... is all very starchy.


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: Dust Devil on June 30, 2009, 12:00:13 PM
You can add funnel cakes, elephant ears, and pettole to those, they are very similar in taste just different shapes and different toppings ie. granulated sugar, powdered sugar, cinnamon & sugar, frosting etc.

4) funnel cakes: http://mymouthful.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/funnel_cake.jpg

5) elephant ears: http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1285/1332876557_fb8752125a.jpg

6) pettole: http://www.mammamya.com/Recipe%20Pages/pettole.htm

My grandmother used to make something similar just eggs, flour, milk, and water, with a pinch of salt & a pinch of sugar (no yeast) mix together in a frying pan and spoon into hot olive oil so the form small pancakes, when they get brown take them out and drain them on a piece of paper towel then just sprinkle both sides with sugar and eat. She called them "palleti" but she was Northern Italian.

Nah, I understand that. Frybread is the umbrella term covering all those variations of the same food. Dough fried in a pan full of hot oil. But I'm interested in finding out what was the squaw in the movie doing, was it based on actual facts or made up for the movie? I thought you might know, CJ.

Now, I found in various sources Indians from both America's really had then (and have now) in their traditions something similar, but I just can't find the exact recipe (the ingredients and the way it's made). They vary from source to source. I'm thinking ''frybread'' isn't the best term because the Indians didn't really use pans, yeast and oil, at least not the way the white man does, and certainly not in inhospitable regions like the desert shown in the movie. Or am I wrong?


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: cigar joe on June 30, 2009, 04:09:59 PM
I'll tell you where it came from, its not Native American its European, the missionaries brought it to the natives from Europe from first contact, the natives had no tradition of bead, yeast, or oil.


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: Dust Devil on June 30, 2009, 04:24:59 PM
That makes sense CJ, the squaw Jeremiah Johnson took for wife came from a tribe raided by missionaries, but maybe we've been on the wrong tracks. We took the wrong turn with the ''frybread'' definition I think, because as said they didn't use yeast or oil, it is some kind of ''flatbread'' more probable they were making.

Check out the flatbreads part in this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapioca

It is probable the North American Indians also knew how to make simple bread like the Indios tribes from South America, but again, I can't find proof for that. Perhaps she was making was some sort of experimental bread (meaning the screenwriters screwed up) ?


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: titoli on June 30, 2009, 06:08:49 PM
Like CJ, I saw this in a cinema. Saw it again on tv in the '70's or about and hadn't until today.  I think this must be seen in a cinema, then it might get 9\10 or even more. As it is I give it what everybody else gave it, 8\10.


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: Novecento on November 04, 2016, 07:04:09 PM
I was just thinking how Sam Peckinpah would have done a fantastic job with this. He was attached to it at one point.


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: Spikeopath on May 06, 2017, 12:15:08 AM
Adding my review.

The Rocky Mountains are the marrow of the World.

Jeremiah Johnson is directed by Sydney Pollack and is inspired by two books, Raymond Thorp and Robert Bunker's Crow Killer: The Saga of Liver-Eating Johnson and Vardis Fisher's Mountain Man. Script was written by John Millius and Edward Anhalt and cinematography is by Duke Callaghan. It stars Robert Redford, Will Geer, Stefan Gierasch, Delle Bolton and Josh Albee.

Hardened after the war with Mexico, and fed up with everyday life, American Jeremiah Johnson (Redford) leaves civilisation behind to live life as a mountain man. He intends to be self-sufficient as a trapper, but he finds that mother nature can be tough, and out here in the mountain wilderness he is not alone. There are others here, and Jeremiah must face many challenges if he is to truly survive.

Filmed entirely on location in the vast wilderness beauty of Utah, Jeremiah Johnson is light on plot but all the better for it. Film basically constitutes Redford's mountain man learning to survive up in them thar mountains, and, earning the right to do so. A number of issues will arise to test his metal, giving him a number of hardships and adventures to define his transformation from average Joe to a fully fledged mythical man of the Earth. Redford is wonderfully at ease in the title role, and very quickly he gets the audience on side to share in his journey. But ultimately it's the landscapes that you take away from this movie. Not only gorgeous, but also the critical character that frames Johnson during his isolation and battle for survival. 8/10


Title: Re: Jeremiah Johnson (1972)
Post by: cigar joe on October 10, 2017, 02:32:23 PM
Watching it again now on TCM on demand, great visuals.