Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Other Films => Topic started by: Rblondie on May 18, 2003, 06:10:58 PM



Title: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Rblondie on May 18, 2003, 06:10:58 PM
Burt Reynolds fourth film is an obvious Leone clone with Aldo Sambrelli as the heavy and Fernando Rey as a padre. But it is worth checking out for its very cool showdown and musical score by none other than Ennio Morricone.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Il Tramonto on June 09, 2004, 08:32:00 AM
I liked this movie quite a bit, but mainly for the great Morricone score. The soundtrack and the scenery made an exciting atmosphere and Navajo Joe wouldn't be half the movie it was if not for those things. Burt Reynolds was o.k. in the lead and I wish that we would have gotten a chance to see more of his beautiful love interest.  :)


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on November 02, 2004, 05:13:33 AM
Watched this Corbucci film last night, its early Corbucci and it sort of reminds one of a TV western that goes off the deep end.

I had read about the opening scalping sequence and was primed to be a little shocked, but by todays standards (BTW I just watched Dawn of The Dead right before Halloween, lol) it was laughable. So it went downhill from there. If you didn't like Django, stay away from this one too.

This is a reason I believe Leone endures, his style in his SW's transends time, Corbucci early on relied on the violent aspect of SW's, and its looking quite quaint nowadays. The Corbucci film that impressed me the most so far is Companeros which displays a bit of Leonesque style, though I did like The Great Silence because it was also somewhat different also. But Compeneros is a notch better than TGS.

I've said this before any SW that deals with Native Americans in any substantial way is way off the mark, especially if the image the director is quoting is comming from older American Westerns, they (the AW's) were all cliche'd and eroneous to begin with so the result is ridiculous.

Navaho Joe, begins with the scalping of his woman, unfortunately since they are supposed to be Navajo's they should be residing in hogans, Corbucci has them in tipis. Navajo's are also probably the least warlike native indian culture, they were farmers and sheep hearders. Now if he was an Apache it might be more believable.

Burt Reynolds, plays Navajo Joe and his costume is buckskins and is something else, it should have been more realistic more historical white cloth leggins, etc, the indian burial ground looks off, it just doesn't have that magic reality that Almeria gives to the Mexican border lands. The dance hall girls look off way too glittery, everythings a bit off in this film. Its like an Italian fantasy of a bad TV western rather than a Leone mythical  Uber West.

Its watchable but only once, it does have Aldo Sambrell as the chief baddie, and has the "now you hate me just enough" Indio double crosser from FAFDM. It also had the El Passo Bank from FAFDM. Has some great train sequences. Also the stunts supervised by Reynolds were good. It also has a trained horse, another Gene Autry/Roy Rodgers TV western touch. It was a Japanese DVD, with a nice transfer, but only worth looking at for a comparison to how it was done wrong.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: DJIMBO on November 02, 2004, 08:35:44 AM

 If you didn't like Django, stay away from this one too.

That probably tells me enough. I dont think much of Django tho i did think The Great Silence was pretty good, very different. Oh dear, if Corbucci's the best after Leone that really says something about non-leone spaghettis. Sollima does appear marginally better.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on November 02, 2004, 06:16:23 PM
Corbucci seems to be very much the Dr. Jeckel/Mr. Hyde of SW directors. I just watched "The Mercenary" I'll post it in a new thread.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Film-Junkie Zach on November 10, 2004, 11:08:49 PM
I saw this movie on Trio about a year ago. Quentin Tarantino hosted Navajo Joe. I really liked it. I thought it was good. I Like Navajo Joe better than Django. Django is still awesome. but The Great Silence is Corbucci's Masterpiece.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Marco Leone on March 27, 2005, 02:01:18 PM
Navajo Joe would certainly make my Top 10 Spag Westerns.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: grandpa_chum on December 09, 2005, 08:20:06 PM
Thanks goes out to Cigar Joe.

I made a big mistake for a long time. I believed all the horribly negative reviews of this film(even from some spaghetti western lovers) and took it as educated analysis of a horrible film. I even lent no discredit to Burt Reynolds for thinking this film was a joke of a movie. After having seen it, I can safely say to anyone who loves spaghetti westerns, this is all anti-spaghetti bullshit. This is a great spaghetti, one of the best. Definitely(although it's a very tough and close choice) Corbucci's finest and as it stands now my favorite non-leone spaghetti western. All the things people complain about when reviewing this film are things that ALL spaghetti westerns exagerate, but they make it sound like this one is especially illogical; well, it isn't. They say 'why would the villain only send three men out after people with very important information?' Well, because the very important information is being carried by an old man and 3 dancers. 'Why would the villain only assign one man to guard Navajo Joe?' Well, because the town is weaponless, all communication to the outside world is cut off, and no one outside of the town even knows there is a problem. 'Why does the villain get Joe to buckle under the pressure of killing a young indian woman but then decide to try and beat information out of him?' Well, because threatning someone's life for a surrender and having to actually kill an important persuasive tool to get information are two very different things. Plus, I doubt if they didn't at least try that first anyway. Basically every complaint that is made about this film by spaghetti-haters is something that lingers among nearly all great spaghetti westerns. The point is it's belivable enough and it makes for one hell of a movie. You think Corbucci is a mad man in his other films, he really goes off the deep end with this one and I love it. Numerous scalpings, skulls on sticks, bloody scalps blowing in the wind, a town that only cares about saving the money, an indian out for revenge helps them anyway and they still only care about the money, and last but not least SPOILER AHEAD Navajo Joe's Horse rides off into the sunset with Joe dead back in the mountains while the townfolk rejoice because 'the money is all that matters'. If that isn't a sadder, more anti-hollywood ending than the end of The Great Silence I don't know what is END OF SPOILER. The music is maybe the best film score I've ever heard and put to great use, near perfection. The last thing I will comment on is a criticism I've read in a few reviews about how this film is horribly inaccurate for another reason. More than three times reviewers basically said that this movie should be thrown into the chasm of hell because Navajo's weren't a war-like or violent people and for that reason the whole movie is a sham. I would have to ask these people if they even watched the film(my educated guess is that they didn't) because it's very clear that the villain started out killing nuisance war-like tribes and that his more recent massacres were of peaceful native americans. Just because Joe can handle a gun and kill like nobody's business doesn't mean the movie is implying the Navajo's were war-like, in fact it makes damn sure that isn't the case. In the first thirty seconds of the movie Joe's woman smiles invitingly at the gang of white men that approach her, just before they scalp her. How can this be taken as a John Ford-like depiction of wild ferocious Indian killers? It makes no sense.

How it ranks...
21. Four Of The Apocalypse
20. Texas Adios
19. ?Quien Sabe?
18. A Reason To Live, A Reason To Die
17. Run Man Run
16. My Name Is Nobody
15. Day Of Anger
14. The Big Gundown
13. Django
12. Death Rides A Horse
11. Mannaja: A Man Called Blade
10. Companeros
9. For A Few Dollars More
8. The Great Silence
7. Fistful Of Dollars
6. L'Ultimo Pistolero(short that comes with django dvd by dominici starring Nero)
5. Once Upon A Time... The Revolution
4. Keoma
3. Navajo Joe
2. The Good The Bad And The Ugly
1. Once Upon A Time In The West


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: indio on December 10, 2005, 12:22:45 AM
i thpught the same as you grandpa i had heard only bad things, i'll get it thanks to you.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Banjo on December 10, 2005, 01:52:28 AM
Although i wouldn't rate Navajo Joe quite as high in my own personal top whatever it is an excellent SW,though i prefer Django and is worth owning for Morricones music alone.The sort of reasoning in the criticisms levelled(stated by Grandpa_chum above) at Navajo Joe could be used against any movie,for instance in the British horror cult classic the Wicker Man(i love this to bits!) it could be asked why was only one policeman flown out to Summerisle to investigate a disappearance when in real life several choppers worth would have flown over?I agree ,ignore the detracters,Navajo Joe
is great!


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Marco Leone on December 10, 2005, 04:14:43 AM
It gets the 4 star "Must View" rating from me definately.  Great film, with Corbucci's usual lashings of action, guts and unjust.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 10, 2005, 06:28:16 AM
Thanks Grandpa, I'll go and check this out.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Banjo on December 10, 2005, 06:58:08 AM
I've only got a pan and scan DVDr(what a fool-i shudda waited!) but i think there is a  widescreen Japanese (Stingray?)DVD which i sometimes see quite cheap on Ebay.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: The Peacemaker on December 10, 2005, 11:37:13 AM
Navajo Joe is definantly one of THE greatest spaghetti westerns out there. I'm very lucky because I taped it in WIDESCREEN!!!! It was on a channel called Trio on satelite tv and they were doing a special on Quentin Tarantino. They showed both Navajo Joe and The Mercenary in widescreen so I taped them both! I was very lucky.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Sundance on December 10, 2005, 02:12:15 PM
I've only got a pan and scan DVDr(what a fool-i shudda waited!) but i think there is a  widescreen Japanese (Stingray?)DVD which i sometimes see quite cheap on Ebay.

If it's cheap, then it's probably unfortunately a copy. :(  Most likely. Since the Stingray discs are over $40 (and all japanese discs!!) if bought new and they are now all out of print. You can still buy The Hills Run Red Stingray disc from xploitedcinema (you mentioned thinking of buying it in another thread), but it won't be available for long... already out of print in cdjapan. The original Navajo Joe went out of print some time ago and the Mercenary disc months ago.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: grandpa_chum on December 10, 2005, 02:33:32 PM
The widescreen transfer that is out there is fantastic... i can say that much... I have some japanese disc or copy and it's just as great in quality as any other 60's film I've seen... as far as I can tell.

just to add, it was the same pleasant surprise I experienced with companeros and django, I expected a campy joke of a spaghetti western and got a completely serious movie with an odd premise.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: titoli on December 10, 2005, 03:45:22 PM
Humm, bah, grr...
Of course, I'm at odds with almost anybody else in this forum as to tastes. This is why I like to read it and write on it. Grandpa's putting Keoma before "both" Giù la testa and FFDM just doesn't stand to reason (at least mine). But I can easily see why he did this. So I know that I won't like Navajo Joe (I plan to see it soon, after having read this thread) but also know that, as with Keoma, it won't be a run of the mill work: a sufficient reason to watch it.
 Also, I know only Morricone's main title and don't like it at all. Still, if my SW musical advisor says Morricone's score must be heard, I will (got me the cd).


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: grandpa_chum on December 10, 2005, 07:31:20 PM
first off all I see where you are coming from, It's hard to defend Navajo Joe and Keoma ahead of those two leone greats... but my best argument is that my spaghetti western rankings don't really justify how much I do love them... I mean giu la testa, although at number 5 on my spaghetti list, I rank much higher than most, even around here, as far as my all-genre list... I mean it's in my 10-15... so even though those two films are ahead of it I still rank it higher than many people... FFDM is simply sort of a guilty non-pleasure of mine, I hate not loving it as much as everyone else, and I still rank it around 30 or 40 of all films, but I just don't think it deserves to be ranked much higher than it is, there are plenty of spaghettis I like more... in fact #9 is pretty generous on my part... a few months ago it would have been closer to 15... it definitely doesn't compare to leone's other 5 films in my opinion... I will admit the showdown is one of the best out there... the other hour and a half just don't cut it for me to rank it ahead of the 8 spaghetti's ahead of it... GBU seems shorter and goes by quicker than FFDM, it just drags a little for me.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: titoli on December 10, 2005, 07:48:37 PM
Well, of course anything goes when you speak of genre movies. Every list is legitimate. Still, what I find amazing in your list is your number one.  Number 2,3 and 4 do rhyme together: but what has got OUTIW to do with them? Also, that you find this moving faster than FFDM is astonishing: UOTW is the slowest moving of Leone's westerns.     


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Banjo on December 11, 2005, 02:42:01 AM
Humm, bah, grr...
Of course, I'm at odds with almost anybody else in this forum as to tastes. This is why I like to read it and write on it. Grandpa's putting Keoma before "both" Giù la testa and FFDM just doesn't stand to reason (at least mine). But I can easily see why he did this. So I know that I won't like Navajo Joe (I plan to see it soon, after having read this thread) but also know that, as with Keoma, it won't be a run of the mill work: a sufficient reason to watch it.
 Also, I know only Morricone's main title and don't like it at all. Still, if my SW musical advisor says Morricone's score must be heard, I will (got me the cd).
Who's your SW musical advisor Titoli?
I must admit i have based a fair few of my SW purchases on the presence of a Morricone soundtrack apart from the very early ones,and i personally feel that without Morricone,Leones westerns may not have got past FOD and i rank Morricone equally important to the SW genre as Leone.Only yesterday i purchased Petroni's And For A Roof A Skyful Of Stars because of Morricones soundtrack-gleaned from Marco's thumbs up review !!


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: boardwalk_angel on December 11, 2005, 06:02:40 AM
Navajo Joe .........I'd rate it a "must see", too.......although I wouldn't place it in my top 10 SW. Somewhere in my top 20's more like it.

It's certainly one of the least 'cartoonish' SW...the themes touched on in the movie are well chosen & well done....the score is soooooooo good............Reynolds is good in the part (he's half Cherokee Indian, by the way)........Joe is not your run of the mill SW character--> it's refreshing to have a hero (as opposed to hero/anti-hero) for a change...he's an 'assassin', & a good one...wiping out 40+ guys is no small feat.

The ending was handled well..& slightly ambiguously...there is room for speculation as to Joe's ultimate fate in the movie....although w/ a little thought...it's pretty clear...& adds to the film's quality & richness.
Good one.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 11, 2005, 06:04:37 AM
I've seen the trailer of the For A Few Previews More disc and I thought it looked quite good. I am looking at checking it out.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Banjo on December 11, 2005, 07:08:09 AM
This really is a pro-Navajo Joe revolution going on here.I'm sure on the last major thread covering this movie there were more against than for!!!
Can we do the same for Django?
Leone_Admirer i've heard that those trailer DVDs are very bad for your health and your wallet!!!


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 11, 2005, 08:09:09 AM
yes they are... unfortunatly I alot of the films on the second trailer disc (For a Few Previews More) have not been released. There are quite a few films in the release. I reviewed my faves in my review thread.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Banjo on December 11, 2005, 08:24:49 AM
Would there be anything tempting on the trailer disc that a few of us would be unaware of?


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 11, 2005, 08:46:33 AM
Here's my review from the A SW Virgins Guide To SW or How I learned Not To Worry And Love The Dubs  thread found here http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=2405.0

It contains a list of the trailers I would like to check out more of.

Quote
04.10.05

36 Films in an Hour and a Half?

Well thanks to Wild East and their For A Few Previews More disc I was able to see 36 spaghetti's, all be it very short versions of them. Last night I had a very enjoyable time. By the time the disc stopped and reverted back to the main menu my ears were ringing with the sound of gunshots and ricochets, as well as humming some damn addictive music.
      The trailers stem from 1961 with the Savage Guns and ended in 1982 with Insurgent Mexico. Now it was fortuitous that the first trailer of the film set, Savage Guns immedialty arrested my attention. There were quite a few films that I wanted to see in full, often mainly for curiosity's sake. Of the first 12 I really wanted to check out Savage Guns, Gunfighters of Casa Grande, Gunmen of the Rio Grande, The Texican, (despite the stupid name) The Hellbenders, The Hills Run Red, and Navajo Joe (please give me your opinions on each, the trailers brainwashed me into liking these films so if their not up to scratch and not wasting a dollar on then please let me know) However I had the most vile and horrific shock when the title For a Few Dollars Less zoomed on to the screen. At the end of its short running time I was so upset I wanted to cry. This looked like a very half arsed spoof of a good film from one of my favourite directors. It really looked like that they had watched the film once, set up a sight gag (such as the cannon firing onto the horse) and despite it looking odd said "meh close enough, now lets be even more vindictive and take the mickey out of another segment of what is a much better film then ours" I could be wrong but...
        Another great joy was to see how many famous US actors were in this collection. Also a surprise appearance from one of my favourite noir characters Dan Duryea from The Hills Run Red. Joseph Cotton, a luminary from the great Orson Welles, was pleasing in the amount of Westerns he starred in. Also great to see was John Huston, and most funny of all William Shatner in Rio Hondo as a "White Commanche". I suppose it was a good thing to have the star trek actor in this film as obbsessive trek fans hopefully would have checked out this wierd film (and get to love spaghetti's). The trailer in this was in very poor shape but I'm sure I heard dialogue go "Theres... Something on the wagon... some...thing... on the wagon" (apologies for such a poor Twilight Zone referance there). The most disturbing appearance though goes to an aged Ursulla Andress' left breast looking rather wrinked in Insurgent Mexico "shudder" luckily she didn't destory all my dreams from when I first saw her in Dr No
      There were other films that I definatly wanted to check out. These included A Minute To Pray, A Second To Die, The Devil Was An Angel, Kill The Wickeds, (Which seemed like a beefed up version of the John Wayne film North to Alaska) Shotgun, 100 Rifles, (I think this might be more for curiosity's sake) A Name That Cried Revenge, The Deserter, (I think mainly for the star power) and A Man Called Noon Looking at my choices I come to the conclusion that I seemed to be attracted to films either with journeys in them or deals with the idea of revenge or have bounty hunters in them. Looking at the spaghetti's I have I think this definalty the case and I thin this is somewhat true of my Hollywood westerns also.
      In the collection it was nice to see the Trailers for Once Upon A Time In The West and Duck You Sucker (making me wish even harder for the speedy release of the R1 DYS). However I think it is very apparent when looking at this collection the quality of the films take a major nose dive once they enter the 70's. The psychadelic and 'groovy' trailers seem to emphasie that the SW's were lost in the way they went forward. Bad Mans River (1971 starring Lee Van Cleef) seemed a particually good example of this with its forced humour just feeling, well, forced.
      This introduction to the Spaghetti Western was a very enjoyable experience, it exposed me to some great films to chase up on (and bug the posters here about) as well as giving me some great music tracks and excellent stunt sequences. The Wild East DVD is certainly good for introducing someone to the Spaghetti genre and depsite the quality being very bad at some points, if the film is a great spaghetti it shines through the print damage. It did make me wish I had bought A Fistful Of Trailers. Anyway it has set me up for tonights viewing experince, Johnny Yuma so please comment on what I've written, advise me on the films I liked and disliked and join me tomorrow for another trip into the Wild Spaghetti West.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on December 11, 2005, 08:58:30 AM
It just doesn't do it for me guys-gals, the visuals are off for me (my pet peeve), Joe looks like he's wearing what looks like a leather tuxedo, like he's a band leader or a waiter he's just missing the jacket and bowtie, come on if you are trying to depict a Navajo, at least look like a traditional Navajo, more the white leggings the breechclout the white overshirt, belly sash, etc. And then the village where SPOLIERS his wife gets scalped SPOILERS looks like from the plains tribes its got tipis, should be hogans.

Its got great SW twists for sure, But its my thing, and for some reason the set and setting being off pulls me out of the magic of the film watching experience, it works for me how the score for Keoma works on some of the members.

I say rent it if you can first

 ;)



Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Banjo on December 11, 2005, 09:12:51 AM
It looks as though the tide maybe turning folks perhaps we shudda locked the topic while we had the chance,hehe!
Thanks for the reprint of your review Leone_Admirer-i must've overlooked this!


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 11, 2005, 09:14:10 AM
Anytime banjo.  :)


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Tim on December 11, 2005, 09:45:16 PM
  Who knows, is this board leaning toward a different Sergio now?  There was a poll a couple days back about which Sergio you preferred but it seems like we've got a lot of closet-Corbucci fans lurking around, myself included.

  Navajo Joe is my second favorite Corbucci western after Great Silence.  I also really enjoyed The Mercenary, and have Companeros on my Christmas list.

  With that said, I'll stick with Leone, although the other Sergio had some really good westerns himself.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: grandpa_chum on December 11, 2005, 09:49:38 PM
yeah, despite my love of every corbucci film I've seen to date I still prefer leone and even peckinpah as western directors... sollima and corbucci are probably a push for second behind leone as my favorite italian directors... that would make 3 sergios... but who knows, if the mercenary and hellbenders are as good as they sound corbucci's big 6 could compete with leone's in my eyes... but with only 4 under my belt it's too soon to tell.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Banjo on December 12, 2005, 03:32:41 AM
  Who knows, is this board leaning toward a different Sergio now?  There was a poll a couple days back about which Sergio you preferred but it seems like we've got a lot of closet-Corbucci fans lurking around, myself included.

  Navajo Joe is my second favorite Corbucci western after Great Silence.  I also really enjoyed The Mercenary, and have Companeros on my Christmas list.

  With that said, I'll stick with Leone, although the other Sergio had some really good westerns himself.
Yes they do say its better to announce secret additions to the world than suffer silently within.C'mon all you secret Django,Nav Joe,Silence admirers,admit it
YOU LOVE CORBUCCI !!!!!!


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 12, 2005, 04:38:09 AM
oh oh, hes started again  ;D


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Banjo on December 12, 2005, 06:30:38 AM
You're right Leone Admirer,i'll shut up!!!


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 12, 2005, 08:03:52 AM
lol, no no carry on, its an interesting argument.  ;D


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Banjo on December 12, 2005, 08:31:20 AM
No i fear i will only be repeating myself.Am i right in thinking that you don't have Navajo Joe and if not have you been enticed?


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 12, 2005, 11:43:48 AM
I don't have it but I enjoyed the trailer on my Wild East Trailer DVD and I am enticed by it.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: The Smoker on December 12, 2005, 03:34:07 PM
Isn't that funny my DVDr copy of Navajo Joe and my Wild East Fistful Of Trailers arn't working this evening... just getting unable to read disc.. 
Havn't really looked at either for almost a year/half now. I'm not in the best of moods.

Lesson to be learn't here: Always readily backup your DVDrs kids.  ;)


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Leone Admirer on December 13, 2005, 03:28:30 AM
I've had that but in home cimema form. Two speakers, each from two sepearet home cinema systems topeed working, luckily their back online now. I hope your DVD's get sorted out Smoker.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Banjo on December 13, 2005, 08:37:42 AM
Don't like the sound of that.I'd better not get rid of my video SW collection that i have duplicated on DVD then!!!


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: titoli on December 24, 2005, 08:17:57 AM
I skipped through some of the movie today and must admit that, as usual with Corbucci, he doesn't follow any beaten trail (but nobody here said that the subject was by Ugo Pirro and screenplay by Di Leo: that makes it a must see anyway). I will try to watch the movie with ease this week, but I would like to point at some things right now.
1) The stunts. Those with the horses are really something. Wonder if they could be done nowadays, but I doubt it.
2) Sambrell. He's a good sidekick, but leader? Would you ever accept him as such? Not me, folks, thanx! BTW I wonder whether Robledo could have made a try at playing the leader and I ask: did he ever played it in any other movie?
3) Why does Reynolds at the beginning instead of getting rid of the 2 gangers tries his best to do a hand to hand? Sure, that makes for good antics and stunts, but is it credible? Further, he looks less indian to me here than in Hawk.
Still, the widescreen edition is worth the seeing: it is really spectacular in the open air scenes. and a feast for the eye. Totally different from the poor fullscreen I saw of Django recently. 


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: boardwalk_angel on December 24, 2005, 08:53:06 AM
Why does Reynolds at the beginning instead of getting rid of the 2 gangers tries his best to do a hand to hand?

To me...this really establishes Joe's character as an assassin...his methods remain pretty consistent throughout.

Further, he looks less indian to me here than in Hawk.

Reynolds is half Cherokee.......




Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on December 24, 2005, 09:22:55 AM
unfortunately he looks like a Native Ameican waiter in his costume.  ;D


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: titoli on December 24, 2005, 11:51:40 AM
Sure. It doesn't mean anything what you are at the movies, only what you look like. I think the make-up is terrible. He would have come off more naturally Indian without much of it. Like in Hawk. Does anybody know whether the stunts are all his own?


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: titoli on December 25, 2005, 04:23:59 PM
Watched the movie today. agreed with the title of the topic (and you know I'm not a Corbucci's fan, probably also because I know most part of his non-western filmography). Actually I was about to say that it's so good that it can't be a Corbucci's. But then one takes into account the fact that it is a De Laurentiis production and it shows. I don't want to repeat things already said here. Only make some points.
1) I can't remember a much cooler Reynolds. Here we go again to my other topic where I wrote I couldn't explain why it took so many years to some american actors to become superstars than was acceptable. Anyway, I haven't rewatched lately Reynolds's blockbusters of the '70's but I don't think he can have made a much better job than he does here. Do I remember well? Question:is the dub voice his own?
2) The title tune is much more effective when heard with the images, expecially when the gang comes into town. Still, though it has taken possession of my brain already, I don't think it is very much (for a '60's Morricone, of course). The rest of the soundtrack, is it there at all? Will have to listen to the cd to decide.

ACHTUNG:  SPOILER !!!! SPOILER!!!SPOILER!!!!

3) I don't like the way Reynolds dies. As an idiot. I was ready to bet that he would be shot by the man he hits with a stone.


   


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Christopher on February 10, 2006, 11:23:35 AM
I found a cheap set at Wal-Mart yesterday called the Wild West Box that has Navajo Joe in it. The other movies it has are Eagle's Wing, A Town Called Hell, and Pancho Villa. I think those other three might be American westerns but I'm not sure. I have a decent number of westerns to catch up on, but I'm looking forward to this one.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: boardwalk_angel on February 10, 2006, 12:05:50 PM
Navajo Joe is one of the top 20 SW ever. I don't think you shoulda given away the ending...though.   :-X
A **SPOILER** warning would've been nice.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Christopher on February 15, 2006, 04:43:59 PM
I watched Navajo Joe the other night and I enjoyed it too. I do like what I've seen of Corbucci's work.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Poggle on February 16, 2006, 04:31:40 PM
Would you say that one who has seen and immensely enjoyed Django more than most reviewers would most likely enjoy this?


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on February 16, 2006, 04:54:24 PM
Quote
Would you say that one who has seen and immensely enjoyed Django more than most reviewers would most likely enjoy this?



Oh yea if you like Django better than Companeros or The Mercenary you'll love this.  ;D


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: The Firecracker on April 11, 2006, 01:53:16 AM



Oh yea if you like Django better than Companeros or The Mercenary you'll love this.  ;D

yeah its like a lesser Django. and it doesnt deserve all the bad rap. it is excellent.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: grandpa_chum on April 11, 2006, 03:04:38 AM

ACHTUNG:  SPOILER !!!! SPOILER!!!SPOILER!!!!

3) I don't like the way Reynolds dies. As an idiot. I was ready to bet that he would be shot by the man he hits with a stone.


   

I have to disagree... well not really... it would have been nice if he had made a smarter decision, but I do think the dumb slip up was worth the **SPOILER** diving tomahawk throw, I mean it's so out of left field and surprising and happens so fast, it's the single greatest kill in cinema history as far as I'm concerned.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: The Firecracker on April 11, 2006, 03:15:56 AM
Humm, bah, grr...
Grandpa's putting Keoma before "both" Giù la testa and FFDM just doesn't stand to reason (at least mine).

sorry Granpa chum...I have to agree with Titoli on this one.
your ranking makes little to no sense at all to me.
but hey...it takes all kinds of people right?


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: mezcal on June 03, 2006, 03:02:03 PM
After immensely enjoying hellbenders and great silence, i've been trying to track down more corbucci's (in north america).
WHY can't i find a copy of navaho joe anywhere, not even a crappy wal mart version. I would have thought that someone would release it just because it has Burt reynolds in it.
Don't know when anchor bay's copy of hellbenders is coming out but i'd like to buy a good version of NJ. It has some excellent reviews but i hear BR hates it (why?), so i doubt we'll have his commnetary on a new release
 


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: The Firecracker on June 03, 2006, 03:41:51 PM
As Sundance has said, the Japanese R2 dvd is out of print. you will have to check Ebay for a copy for under 20 dollars which isnt bad at all.



Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: titoli on June 03, 2006, 04:19:55 PM
Quote
i hear BR hates it (why?)



We discussed the matter some time ago and, yes, BR hates it, though I wondered how many movies he was in that are better than that.



Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Christopher on June 03, 2006, 04:50:04 PM
I found a copy of Navajo Joe with three other westerns at Wal-Mart some time back. It's called the Wild West Box, and the other three movies are Pacho Villa, A Town Called Hell and Eagle's Wing.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Arizona Colt on June 04, 2006, 11:43:48 PM
I have an uncut dvd recorded from TCM. It runs 107 minutes. I got it from Eurotrashcinema.com for $15. In a book I have it mentions Burts disdain for NJ but now over the years apparently, he doesn't hate it so much.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Banjo on June 05, 2006, 03:26:36 AM
Its very easy to be self critical about ones own work.I met Al Stewart backstage a few years ago-you may know him for Year Of The Cat  and Time Passages both of which get alot of radio play-and he absolutely slaughtered his own back catalogue but thousands would disagree!
Maybe Reynolds was being modest? ::)


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: titoli on June 05, 2006, 07:39:00 AM
Quote
but now over the years apparently, he doesn't hate it so much.


You read\heard this where?


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Arizona Colt on June 06, 2006, 07:57:37 AM
A hardcover book from Howard Hughes entitled ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE ITALIAN WEST. Apparently there were many production problems both before and during filming. Reynolds was expecting to work for Sergio Leone as Eastwood had shown him FOD spiking his interest to do NJ. When he arrived on set he realized it was not Leone. The film bombed in America which probably has a lot to do with Reynolds disdain for the film as this is usually what happens when a film goes badly with the stars claiming they knew it was a turkey from the start. Here is a paragraph directly from the text-
"Burt Reynolds famously described NJ as: So awful it wsa shown only in prisons and airplanes because nobody could leave. I killed 10 thousand guys, wore a japanese sling shot and a fright wig. Reynolds contempt for the film provided him with endless anecdotes for iterviews and chat shows throughout his career, though his opinion of the film is rather unfair. NJ was a huge European hit and one of Corbuccis best films. Reynolds has mellowedand now he wryly recalls his time in Italy and Spain shooting his first, and last, Italian western."


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: titoli on June 06, 2006, 05:07:38 PM
If he has "mellowed", why should he be "wryly" recalling? (this is a question for Hughes, not for you).


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Banjo on June 06, 2006, 05:12:03 PM
I've got that book too(my sw bible :) ).
The "wryling" recalling is probably just Burtons dry sense of humour-he's never taken himself too seriously!


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: grandpa_chum on June 07, 2006, 04:46:54 AM
to be fair, I think it's more of a character thing than a movie thing... I don't think he'd hate it if he weren't in it... I think it's just that he's not proud of playing the part of a guy named navajo joe in a spaghetti western... how many normal non-spaghetti enthusiasts would be? not many.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: titoli on June 08, 2006, 04:54:51 PM
Well, who can say? The last scene is anyway (one of) the most memorable he ever played in. And I don't think that he played in more than 3 or 4 movies better than this, anyway. His '70's films look so dated.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Tim on June 10, 2006, 04:23:37 PM
  A local video store has a copy of Navajo Joe that I used to rent before I taped it off of TCM a few years back.

  Arizona Colt, how long is the version you have, 107 minutes?  My tape clocks in at around 90 minutes, give or take a few, so I'm curious if you have a different version.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on June 10, 2006, 10:46:05 PM
Burts best role was in Deliverence.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: titoli on June 10, 2006, 11:20:33 PM
Agreed, though it wasn't the one which made him a superstar and, I dare to add, not the title with which  common viewers associate him.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on June 10, 2006, 11:37:19 PM
I think most would associate Burt with "Smokey & The Bandit"


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: grandpa_chum on June 11, 2006, 07:07:24 AM
the longest yard and smokey and the bandit(same character basically) IS burt... but for me it's between deliverance and boogie nights as his best performances.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on June 11, 2006, 07:50:15 AM
Yea I forgot about Boogie Nights.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Arizona Colt on June 11, 2006, 12:10:17 PM
This is for Tim, I just checked my disc and the movie runs a little over 92 minutes including the UA title card before the movie begins. The guy I got this boot from apparently copied about 15 minutes of another movie that plays after NJ is over. Sorry about that. When I started the movie I clicked my display to see how long it was and it read 107 minutes.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: mezcal on July 28, 2006, 07:02:06 PM
I found a copy of Navajo Joe with three other westerns at Wal-Mart some time back. It's called the Wild West Box, and the other three movies are Pacho Villa, A Town Called Hell and Eagle's Wing.
I saw this 4 movie set today, released by 'direct source'. Is it worth buying for NJ, what is the quality of the print, i'm guesing p/s aswell?


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on July 28, 2006, 07:35:16 PM
Yea, Direct Source,  direct off the TV lol, not very good and a lot of Pan & Scan.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Banjo on July 30, 2006, 05:08:31 AM
I finally got around to printing off Alex Cox's unpublished book from 1978 "10,000 Ways To Die"
 http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=2641.0 (it looks a great read :) )
and it seems that Burt Reynolds was not the only one critical of his contribution to the sw genre as apparently at some point Clint must've have too :o
Theres a small reference to this right at the very back of the book just before an excellent Cox interview with LVC.
It reads "Grim tales are told by and about many American actors who worked on the Italian Westerns.Clint Eastwood and Burt Reynolds tend to dismiss the films they made(as does Gian Maria Volonte)"
I know about Volonte who felt repulsed by his roles in Leones movies because they were contrary to his poltical stance,but i never realised(assuming we believe Cox) that Clint ever criticised those movies especially as he was heavily indebted to Leones films in some of his own attempts at westerns which i've seen him happily acknowledge in interviews.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: grandpa_chum on July 30, 2006, 05:16:57 AM
i think he uses the term dismiss rather loosely... reynolds out and out dismissed it as ridiculous... from what I've seen and read clint playfully dismisses them as being over the top or eccentric... one is being a snob(for whatever reason) and the other is a natural reaction... I also don't think clint sees them as much of a performance on his part, which is understandable... but he's made movies in that nature with the same sort of performances for a long time, so i would be surprised if he despises or regrets ever being a part of it as reynolds does.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: titoli on July 30, 2006, 06:14:02 AM
Of course it is not the same thing. SW didn't contribute to Reynolds' career as it happened to Eastwood and LVC. Eastwood can be dismissive or playful as much as he wants but without Leone maybe he would have ended  nowhere. He acknowledged this (he can't but doing it) expecially to italian medias, adding that without him maybe even Leone's career might have taken a differen turn (which is also true, maybe). Leone gave him and LVC what maybe they would have never attained: the right screen persona. I'm curious to watch some Rawhide episode to see what Eastwood was like, though I can easily imagine it. Once he was given that, the rest could only be consequential. Reynolds wasn't that lucky, which does explain his grudge having to toil another lustre to attain stardom. And of course Eastwood can't say that FFDM and GBU are better than anything he's ever done and gonna make himself as director.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on July 30, 2006, 07:28:32 AM
Quote
Once he was given that, the rest could only be consequential.

Yea it was almost like a magical formula that Eastwood used from then on out.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Arizona Colt on July 30, 2006, 09:13:01 AM
Well it's possible the actors were dismissive of the movies then but have come to terms with now. Besides, Eastwood was already an established commodity in the US because of his role in RAWHIDE and Van Cleef although not famous was everywhere from various tv shows to low budget horror flicks to villainous roles in studio westerns. If another actor had been used in Leones films the DOLLAR films may not have attained as much recognition as they have. Reynolds, on the other hand, had a small role on early episodes of GUNSMOKE as the blacksmith(I think). Not sure if he'd done anything of note before NAVAHO JOE which I'd watch again any day over any of the DOLLAR films. Reynolds disdain for the movie probably stems from jealousy that his film didn't take off like Eastwoods did. A missed opportunity for him.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on July 30, 2006, 09:19:28 AM
 
Quote
Not sure if he'd done anything of note before NAVAHO JOE which I'd watch again any day over any of the DOLLAR films. Reynolds disdain for the movie probably stems from jealousy that his film didn't take off like Eastwoods did. A missed opportunity for him

In my opinion, Navajo Joe really sucks as far as story line , Native dress, and plausible accuracy, that all brings it into fantasy land, action is good though and Morricone score is ok.  :P

But to say that you'd watch it any day over the Dollars films makes me hesitate and question all of your recomondations. ???


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Arizona Colt on July 30, 2006, 09:35:33 AM
No need to question anything. After seeing those three films over and over again and I've stated and will state yet again (hopefully for the last time) they are great movies and deserving of classic status but there are other greats out there. NAVAHO JOE was immensely enjoyable for me. It delivered as an action picture and wasn't trying to be anything other than that. It was shockingly violent for a western in 66. I don't see where the storyline sucks. It was a revenge story pure and simple. I guess than all revenge driven plotlines must suck then. Movies are not meant to be all reality. The purpose is to get lost in the world and to see things you won't see in real life. The DOLLARS films are not very accurate nor do they follow rules of reality either. Although they may be planted a bit more on planet Earth than say the SARTANA films, the actions by the main characters put them in the realm of comic book heroes and villains and I believe Frayling even states this in one of his books.

As far as my recommendations go, most don't seem to pay attention to them anyways as they aren't directed by Sergio Leone. They have there merits and are widely recognized still. I don't see any SWs being shown at Cannes or even Gene Siskels film forum nor do I see any movie companies spending millions of dollars to remaster them.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: grandpa_chum on July 31, 2006, 06:46:14 AM
although I'd say navajo joe and the dollars trilogy are not quite equals(very close though) I can't see damn thing wrong with NJ, specially nothing burt reynolds could be ashamed of.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: The Peacemaker on July 31, 2006, 08:51:26 AM
although I'd say navajo joe and the dollars trilogy are not quite equals(very close though) I can't see damn thing wrong with NJ, specially nothing burt reynolds could be ashamed of.

NJ is a cool SW. Aldo Sambrell made a good bad guy and Nicoletta Machiavelli was really hot!


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: titoli on July 31, 2006, 09:06:46 AM
Quote
I can't see damn thing wrong with NJ, specially nothing burt reynolds could be ashamed of.

That's what this thread is about: to try to understand what Reynolds can possibly find wrong (and in such exaggerated form) about one of his best movies.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Tim on July 31, 2006, 11:51:15 AM
  I know some people look down upon spaghetti westerns as a sort of lesser movie, like they don't compare to other American made movies, or any country for that matter.  Maybe Reynolds said how he feels about NJ before spaghettis had their own mini-rebirth, where they're more well known now and more popular with the advent of DVD and the internet.

  Who knows?  It's a good movie, but I can't figure out why ole Burt doesn't like it.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: titoli on July 31, 2006, 04:40:02 PM
If you have read Frayling's STDWD you'll remember that Reynolds was shown a copy of FOD and agreed at once with Eastwood that it was a good movie. I presume that was also the reason why he came to Europe at all to shoot NJ. So I don't think that a low opinion of SW was the reason.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: The Firecracker on July 31, 2006, 07:03:15 PM


  Who knows?  It's a good movie, but I can't figure out why ole Burt doesn't like it.


I'm sure it's just a mixture of hatred of the inaccuracies in the movie (he once mentioned how his bow was ridiculous looking because it was a japanese bow), prejudice, and bad relationships while on set ( presuming).


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Arizona Colt on July 31, 2006, 11:26:27 PM
If you have read Frayling's STDWD you'll remember that Reynolds was shown a copy of FOD and agreed at once with Eastwood that it was a good movie. I presume that was also the reason why he came to Europe at all to shoot NJ. So I don't think that a low opinion of SW was the reason.
Reynolds was under the assumption he was being directed by Leone. He didn't know who Corbucci was. According to an interview he asked for a love scene instead of killing hundreds of villains but Corbucci laughed and said this is how they(italians)had changed the western by removing all the fat leaving only action. Anyways, as typical in Hollywood, if a film comes out and bombs the actors tend to shun it and degrade the film itself so as to take some heat off of them even though many times said actors will boast of how good said movie actually is before it comes out.

Strangely, on the 4 disc FOD, FAFDM set on the brief interviews with Eastwood, he seems, at least from his tone as well as his wording that he is not entirely pleased nor completely embarassed for having appeared in them.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Morricone Follower on August 05, 2006, 11:44:50 PM
I am, as my name would suggest, a big Ennio Morricone fan.  Being a composer myself, the man simply makes me weep at my inadequacy. 

I am at the moment in search for the soundtrack to Navajo Joe.  From what I can tell (based on Kill Bill and the 30 second clips that are at my disposal), this is one of Morricone's best western scores.  However, the only full score that I can find is on Amazon, and it is out of print (available used for almost $50, more than I can spend on a single CD).  Are there any other versions of this score available?  I'd even settle for a download?


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: The Firecracker on August 05, 2006, 11:58:42 PM
here ya go...

http://www.moviegrooves.co.uk/shop/navajojoesoundtrack.htm


keep in mind this site has many other spaghetti western soundtracks and not just Morricone but just as good as him (if not better).


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Morricone Follower on August 06, 2006, 12:17:17 AM
Great site!  Do you happen to know if they ship to the US?


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: The Firecracker on August 06, 2006, 12:17:56 AM
Great site!  Do you happen to know if they ship to the US?

yes they do. bought a few soundtracks from them before.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Morricone Follower on August 06, 2006, 12:18:51 AM
Thanks a ton, Firecracker.  You are truly a saint among men.  ;)


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: NavyColt on August 06, 2006, 01:02:05 AM
I have to say the quality of the Legend CD is quite poor, just like the original U/A LP, but it's the only full score available (there are a few boots, but the sound is lacking on them as well). There's some REALLY nice sounding stereo cues that have appeared on a few comp LPs, but why the rest have never surfaced remains a mystery.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: The Firecracker on August 06, 2006, 02:23:26 PM
I have to say the quality of the Legend CD is quite poor, just like the original U/A LP, but it's the only full score available (there are a few boots, but the sound is lacking on them as well). There's some REALLY nice sounding stereo cues that have appeared on a few comp LPs, but why the rest have never surfaced remains a mystery.

I dont think their "Blindman" soundtrack suffers from anything you mentioned. I'm very happy with it.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 06, 2006, 02:24:41 PM
I dont think their "Blindman" soundtrack suffers from anything you mentioned. I'm very happy with it.

The photo on the DVD you sent me was a photocopy of the CD cover of Blindman.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: The Firecracker on August 06, 2006, 02:29:13 PM
The photo on the DVD you sent me was a photocopy of the CD cover of Blindman.


yeah it is. I thought it would look better then the Jerksi cover copy I have for my dvd of the movie.
If I knew how to post pictures I would show you the difference.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 06, 2006, 02:30:43 PM

yeah it is. I thought it would look better then the Jerksi cover copy I have for my dvd of the movie.
If I knew how to post pictures I would show you the difference.

I think I saw the DVD cover on that website Boardwalk Angel sent me.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: The Firecracker on August 06, 2006, 02:32:12 PM
I think I saw the DVD cover on that website Boardwalk Angel sent me.
no I think the one your speaking of is the japanese region 2 cover. that cover is excellent! They recently had the Jap poster on ebay (which is a very rare sight) for 50 bucks but I had to let it go :'(


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Morricone Follower on August 07, 2006, 04:19:36 PM
here ya go...

http://www.moviegrooves.co.uk/shop/navajojoesoundtrack.htm


keep in mind this site has many other spaghetti western soundtracks and not just Morricone but just as good as him (if not better).

Thanks again, I ordered the score over the weekend.

What other scores are you referring to? 

I've actually not heard, other than in the few films I've seen, a non-Morricone spaghetti western score.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: The Firecracker on August 07, 2006, 05:59:43 PM


What other scores are you referring to? 



these my friend.

http://www.moviegrooves.co.uk/shop/by_genre/westerns.htm


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Amaze on August 07, 2006, 06:01:29 PM
Navajo Joe Main Theme (http://rapidshare.de/files/28575125/07_Navajo_Joe__Original_Main_Titl.mp3.html)


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Banjo on May 25, 2007, 05:09:36 AM
Leone Admirer's review from his SW Virgins Guide:-

Navajo Joe

People had told me, your not going to like this movie. Hell, Burt Reynolds himself told me that he didn't like this movie, well I tell a lie not to me in an interview but...
    It was with an interest that I sat down and watched this movie. Granted my new 50" DLP rear projection HD TV didn't do anything for a splicey pan and scan print it was an experience that I found satisfying.
     The film opens with a gang of men brutally scalping and killing a Native American lady. Cut to the same men whipping up a storm in a frontier town. A traitor informs them of a shipment of money coming to another town. They ride off to steal all the while followed and hunted by Joe (Burt Reynolds)
     Lets just say the film is short on plot and at times long on action (ahh pappy, sir,  sorry to paraphrase you) which should be some fo the guiding principles of a western tale. Yes, some of the ideas in the film are a bit unexplored and yes those town folk perhaps need a good kicking for being such stupid wusses but there are elements in the film that make up for that. The excellent train robbery being one (though why it took so long to remove a log I don't know). And the sequence with Joe hunting down the gangs men and it's leader is at itmes quite suspensful. The film is a revenge story and I feel the director, Sergio Corbucci, brings across Joe's frustration in trying to get revenge whilst being forced to carry the problems of a weak town.
     Burt isn't too bad at all as Joe. He at least looks a little bit like a Native Indian and his portrayal of a haunted and angry man was impressive. The only other person that really stuck out for me was the head Bandit, Duncan (Aldo Sambrell) who brought across menace enough to be an interesting antagonist to the grumpy Joe.
     Corbucci's direction is always at times hit and miss. In some scenes he gives us some gorgeously framed shots bringing across the intensity and action that a revenge film needed. At other times plot wrap ups seemed to be too forced in their excecution and a sense perhaps of parody, especially the showgirls companion who, for me atleast, grated at times. Morricone's music was sterling stuff, no where near his best but still interesting.
       And I think it's those words that best sum up this film. It was no where near the best non-Leone spaghetti western I have seen but it was still enjoyable.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Banjo on May 26, 2007, 03:34:11 AM
Here's Silenzio's review:-

Navajo Joe -- I was really psyched to see this famed Corbucci spaghetti.  It started off very promising.  In fact, I'd say the first ten or so minutes are the highlight of the film (up until Joe kills the two guys Aldo sends up to nab him).  The opening scene was very brutal, and Aldo Sambrell's ride to town with his oversized gang (and Morricone's heart-pounding score) was also very good.  Almeria was awesomely photographed in this picture.  The final showdown between Reynolds and Sambrell is also mind-blowing.  Burt Reynolds was famous for having claimed that "The movie is so bad that they only showed it in airplanes and prisons so nobody could walk out."  However, I'm thinking Reynolds probably only watched the scenes he was in.  Honestly, I didn't like Burt in the role.  He wasn't bad, but he CERTAINLY wasn't good either.  Luckily, Joe doesn't talk a whole lot (especially during the first half).  I watched this a week ago, so there are a few things i can't remember, but i do remember that my main gripe with the movie is a few lame scenes, like Reynolds disposing of the gang who's hanging around the train.  That was a really.... really.... laughable scene.



Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Banjo on May 26, 2007, 12:45:43 PM
Arizona Colts review:-

NAVAJO JOE- 1966-Burt Reynolds stars in his sole Italian western film as an Indian getting his revenge on a sadistic Mexican bandit leader of scalp hunters that hates everybody. One of the most downright violent movies ever made, period, regardless of genre. Aldo Sambrell plays one of the nastiest villains who fears nothing. Sambrell had murdered Joe’s people including his woman. He goes about cutting down his gang and saving a town that has no great love of Indians either. The ending is very well done and reveals a touching scene between Joe and his horse. Corbucci’s most violent western was a massive hit in Italy but a failure in the USA much to the chagrin of Mr. Reynolds. Some have complained of the inaccuracies of the Indian dress but this film is not interested in being a historical re-enactment. It’s interested in action and lots of it. If you want a western with a popcorn mentality and heavy doses of violent comic book savagery than look no further. For spaghetti escapist entertainment, they don’t get much better than NAVAJO JOE.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: The Firecracker on May 26, 2007, 01:05:52 PM
Burt Reynolds fourth film is an obvious Leone clone



Don't agree with that.
Reading these old threads again makes you realize how looked down upon any non-leone sw was during the early years of the board.
Seems like most of the older members don't have much of an imagination and are opposed to anything that is given a creative twist.
I remember a member by the name of CUSSER saying that anything outside the Leone entries is "ridiculous nonsense that should be avoided like the plague" (paraphrasing) then he later stated he had only seen one. "Return of Sabata"


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Arizona Colt on May 26, 2007, 03:32:49 PM
I don't agree with that either. I haven't seen JOE in a long time. I'll have to go back and watch it again as I don't remember any LLLOOOOONNNGGGG bits of men staring at each other for what seems like hours before somebody (finally) gets put out of their misery.

I do remember lots of this though-- BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! BLAM!.....AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!...BLAM! BLAM!...DIE!!..DIE!!....BLAM! BLAM!...THUNK!!...AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGG!!!!...BLAM! BLAM!...THUNK!....(insert suitably dramatic music here).

JOE might not be a GREAT MOVIE....but it sure as hell is GREAT ENTERTAINMENT.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: The Firecracker on August 10, 2007, 08:02:07 AM



We discussed the matter some time ago and, yes, BR hates it, though I wondered how many movies he was in that are better than that.




He was probably angry that his career didn't take off like Eastwood's did after starring in an Italian western.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Arizona Colt on February 13, 2008, 01:09:06 PM
Coming on R1 DVD May 13th from MGM!!!!


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Ben Tyreen on February 13, 2008, 04:28:50 PM
Quote
Coming on R1 DVD May 13th from MGM!!!!

  Very good news, AC!  I can finally tape over the TCM showing from 4 or 5 years back.  O0  Where'd you see this info?  I'm not seeing it anywhere.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Arizona Colt on February 13, 2008, 04:34:07 PM
Scroll down towards the bottom. It's reported at DVDsavante.

http://www.lovelockandload.net/forum/index.php?topic=146.0


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Arizona Colt on February 13, 2008, 04:34:49 PM
Here's the direct link to the site...

http://www.dvdtalk.com/dvdsavant/


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Ben Tyreen on February 13, 2008, 04:44:03 PM
  Thanks for the links, AC.  There's some really good movies coming out not even mentioning Navajo Joe.  Man of the West is long overdue on DVD, The Westerner and The Way West were both good although I probably won't pick them up.  And I'll definitely pick up The Secret of Santa Vittoria, caught it in November on TCM and loved it.  Also, a Roger Corman WWII movie?  I feel I have to look into that one. O0


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Arizona Colt on February 13, 2008, 05:06:00 PM
Oh hell yeah! Don't even get me started on Roger Corman. I can talk for days about Roger Corman! :)


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Ben Tyreen on February 13, 2008, 05:15:33 PM
Quote
Oh hell yeah! Don't even get me started on Roger Corman. I can talk for days about Roger Corman!

  Looking at his IMDB page, I didn't realize he'd produced and directed so many movies.  For God's sake, he produced almost 400 movies in one way or another and directed almost sixty!  Yikes, the man keeps busy.

  As for The Invasion, Corman's WWII movie, any movie with a cast that includes Stewart Granger, Raf Vallone, Mickey Rooney, Edd Byrnes, and Henry Silva has to be at least worth a watch.  What an odd teaming!

  The other one that caught my eye, mostly because it looks pretty bad, is Ski Troop Attack.  Have you seen that "classic"? ;)


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Arizona Colt on February 13, 2008, 05:32:02 PM
Not seen SKI TROOP ATTACK but I think there's a budget release of this. Corman dabbled in every genre and launched more careers both in front of and behind the camera than any single filmmaker before or since. The list includes Sylvester Stallone, Jonathan Demme, Peter Bogdanovich, Martin Scorcese, Robert De Niro, Charles Bronson, Jack Nicholson, James Cameron, Ron Howard (as a director) the list goes on and on.

He first directed MONSTER FROM THE OCEAN FLOOR (1954) and it snowballed from there. Like you said, he's directed, produced and written a large body of work that spans all genres. His LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS (1960) was shot over the course of a few days on a bet. This film featured Jack Nicholson as the wacky patient in the dentist office who loves pain. Nicholson than starred (and directed some of) THE TERROR and (co-starred in) the excellent THE RAVEN (1963) with Vincent Price, Boris Karloff and Peter Lorre.

There's a great book out about Corman, two actually and this most recent set. BLOODY MAMA has De Niro one of Ma Barker's drug addicted sons...

http://www.amazon.com/Corman-Collection-Bloody-Premature-Gas-s-s/dp/B000SK5ZFC

The first two books are awesome...

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b/102-0957252-0082521?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=roger+corman&x=0&y=0

Apologies for derailing the thread.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Poggle on March 22, 2008, 01:48:16 PM
On May 13'th by Fox/United Artists!

He's gay!

EDIT: As in he's coming out of the closet. Get it? "Navajo Joe is coming out!" Aww man, I ruined it!


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Arizona Colt on May 09, 2008, 04:32:00 PM
Review for this here and the DVD is ready for purchase....

http://www.dvddrive-in.com/reviews/n-s/navajojoe66.htm



Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: The Firecracker on May 10, 2008, 03:54:02 PM
Entertainment Weekly said to skip over this dvd and snap up the others.

Their grade was a "D".

Fuck those guys. I'm writing them.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Ben Tyreen on May 11, 2008, 11:45:38 AM
Quote
Entertainment Weekly said to skip over this dvd and snap up the others.

They're grade was a "D".

Fuck those guys. I'm writing them.

 I would wager they never even watched the movie, but read some negative online reviews of NJ and said "hey, no one's seen this movie, let's give it a D!" ;)


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Arizona Colt on May 26, 2008, 09:48:06 PM
Received the MGM dvd a few days ago and watched this again tonight. My opinion has changed just slightly. It's still a great ACTION film, but some of the other scenes are handled kind of clumsily and could have benefited from some build up. Even so, it's still got lots of entertainment value, some sadistic villains especially a scene stealing lead antagonist role for Aldo Sambrell. And there are a fair number of beautifully shot sequences present here. The opening scene as well as virtually all the action scenes and the finale.

One mistake is seen at the beginning when one of the bad guys shoots an Indian. He falls into the water but in the next shot he's standing again then he's back in the water. It's very quick, but it's there. I didn't notice it before until now. Another mistake seems to have taken place in the restoration. The day-for-night scenes have been erroneously made into daytime shots now.

I think Reynolds wanting Corbucci to have allowed him some romance with the Indian girl would have taken away from his task at hand considering his reason for pursuing the villains was to avenge his wife and village; very little time had passed between the Navajo massacre and Joe going after them and him taking up with another woman so soon after would seem a tad insensitive.

Definitely worth the purchase and the film never looked better. Morricone's complete score for the film has also seen release for a few months now and it, too is worth the purchase.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on May 26, 2008, 10:25:54 PM
He wasn't dressed as a Navajo, and they lived in hogans not tipis, shoddy research on Corbucci's part the best stuff is the railroad sequences and Morricone score.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Arizona Colt on May 26, 2008, 10:33:55 PM
He wasn't dressed as a Navajo, and they lived in hogans not tipis, shoddy research on Corbucci's part the best stuff is the railroad sequences and Morricone score.

Yes I remember your problems with the "reality" of this film but I don't know what a Navajo is supposed to wear nor do I care. He looked like an Indian and the name of the movie is Navajo Joe. It's a fine action flick and that's all I cared about here. But then, Leone's movies aren't free of inaccuracies either.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on May 27, 2008, 05:07:51 AM
Yea it was action oriented, but those inaccuracies were glaring to me.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on May 27, 2008, 07:48:40 AM
He wasn't dressed as a Navajo, and they lived in hogans not tipis, shoddy research on Corbucci's part the best stuff is the railroad sequences and Morricone score.
Navajos in tepees? Man, everyone (except AC, I guess) knows that's wrong. Is the fact that the main character is Navajo important to the story in any way? I mean, could he have been just any kind of Indian whatsoever to make the plot work? If so, this kind of sloppiness is really annoying.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: titoli on May 27, 2008, 10:55:57 AM
You can't sing M. 's main theme with another tribe. Maybe Apache, but in Italy it is pronounced as in french, with the accent on the second (and last) syllable. So he had to be a Navajo. Which, btw, it's also the tribe led by Tex Willer, italian most famous western cartoon.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Arizona Colt on May 27, 2008, 12:54:43 PM
Navajos in tepees? Man, everyone (except AC, I guess) knows that's wrong. Is the fact that the main character is Navajo important to the story in any way? I mean, could he have been just any kind of Indian whatsoever to make the plot work? If so, this kind of sloppiness is really annoying.

I'm glad you're up on your Native American studies Mr. Forum Ninja. Glad you could forego being "hidden" long enough to enlighten me. Why don't you watch the movie than you can answer the latter part of your pretentious post yourself.  O0


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on May 27, 2008, 02:43:23 PM
Come on Arizona, try and be a little understanding it would be like somebody making a ninja movie and have the nijas dressed in plaid instead of black. Would that get you a just a bit ticked off?


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Arizona Colt on May 27, 2008, 02:47:16 PM
Come on Arizona, try and be a little understanding it would be like somebody making a ninja movie and have the nijas dressed in plaid instead of black. Would that get you a just a bit ticked off?

In all honesty the depiction of ninjas (there dress) in movies is wholly inaccurate in itself. They didn't dress in the manner seen in numerous movies from the US and even Asia itself. Yet, I have no problem with it because the changes suit the films themselves.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Ben Tyreen on May 28, 2008, 11:23:20 AM
Quote
Is the fact that the main character is Navajo important to the story in any way? I mean, could he have been just any kind of Indian whatsoever to make the plot work?

  Probably so if Joe was a member of a different tribe, but Navajo Joe sounds so cool.  "Creek" or "Blackfoot" Joe just doesn't have that same ring. ;D


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on May 28, 2008, 05:29:31 PM
You can't sing M. 's main theme with another tribe. Maybe Apache, but in Italy it is pronounced as in french, with the accent on the second (and last) syllable. So he had to be a Navajo.
Was the theme written to conform to the title, or the title to the theme? Are you saying M couldn't have written a theme for, say, "Blackfeet Pete"?


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: The Firecracker on May 28, 2008, 09:38:27 PM
You can't sing M. 's main theme with another tribe.


Comanche Joe sounds like it could fit.

And Jenkins, watch the film before making assumptions.
Perhaps the movie isn't worthy of your viewing but maybe the soundtrack is worth the listen.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on May 29, 2008, 04:28:30 AM
Who's making assumptions? I'm just asking questions.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: titoli on May 29, 2008, 01:58:13 PM

Comanche Joe sounds like it could fit.

Same as Apache: pronounced mostly bisyllable over here.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: titoli on May 29, 2008, 02:02:41 PM
Quote
Was the theme written to conform to the title, or the title to the theme? 

No idea. Have you got any?

Quote
  Are you saying M couldn't have written a theme for, say, "Blackfeet Pete"?

No, of course. But would it have been as good?



Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: Poggle on May 31, 2008, 01:24:01 PM
I watched half of it last night(tired) and I enjoyed what I saw. I might even enjoy it more the next time around. There were so many great shots and locations one can't take it all in at once! Or one half in two nights...

I love how Joe's presence in the movie is like his relation to the outlaws: He's like a phantom that appears when you least expect him 8) That scene where he takes the train was classic spaghetti!

What I find fascinating in Corbucci's films during the time of Navajo Joe/Django/Hellbenders is the very refined camera set ups and editing, particularly in Hellbenders. It's so damn smooth and on-the-spot that it sticks out compared to his more average, in comparison, efforts in cinematography and editing, like Great Silence, Mercenary and Companeros(though I adore those films, I'm not knocking them).

One thing I also loved in this film was the locations. What I enjoy the most about seeing a new Corbucci film is how he chooses and captures a new environment, but after seeing Silence, Django, and Mercenary I would wonder how many other options for unique and different-from-the-last environments he had left. Because of this and the trailer I was under the impression it would be average spaghetti landscapes and locations but I was extremely impressed with the feeling of limitless, almost dreamlike green hills/mountains and plains. I should've expected it at some point! I don't know about you, friend, or friends, but I'm a sucker for greenery in spaghetti westerns, which is one of the reasons why I hold MNIN and Face to Face in high regard. I really love that shot from the train window of that huge-assed canyon region.

Anyway, I'll finish this later ;D :-[


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: titoli on May 31, 2008, 03:38:57 PM
For the idle ones who don't want to do the youtube search:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN1bJqU50iA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH5Bff5TGbY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA1ynbWBfYI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kASfBdEaDhs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXpc10OzB1c&feature=related



Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: The Firecracker on June 03, 2008, 01:57:19 PM
For the idle ones who don't want to do the youtube search:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN1bJqU50iA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH5Bff5TGbY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA1ynbWBfYI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kASfBdEaDhs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXpc10OzB1c&feature=related




Let's put some spoiler warnings on those vids Tit.
You gave away the excellent climax.


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: moviesceleton on June 03, 2008, 02:15:07 PM
Let's put some spoiler warnings on those vids Tit.
;D


Title: Re: Navajo Joe (1966)
Post by: The Firecracker on June 03, 2008, 02:19:18 PM
;D


The second sentence of that same post can be conscrewed as funny as well.
If you think hard enough.