Sergio Leone Web Board

General Information => General Discussion => Topic started by: cigar joe on May 20, 2003, 10:15:01 PM



Title: The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on May 20, 2003, 10:15:01 PM
I'm assuming all have noticed the broad gauge track in Leone's westerns, standard english/american gauge is 4 feet 8 inches, most american made westerns showed standard gauge trains though some narrow gauge lines existed out west also (Denver & Rio Grande).

Interestingly enough in the american south at the time of the Civil War the gauge was 5 feet, some other  railroads even went p to 6 feet (Albany & Susquehanna). So actually Leone got it pretty close.

Then there are the strange looking trains, something looks not quite right, not quite what you are used to seeing.

Most of us in the USA expect to see the type of locomotive refferd  to as an "American" type with pointy cowcatcher, baloon stack, large headlamp all with Victorian garnish. These locomotives are classed thusly as 4-4-0 ( a 4 wheel truck & four driving wheels) other types the 2-6-0 "Mogul" and the 2-8-0 "Consolidation" 0-4-0's and 0-6-0's were used as switchers, there were also "tank" engines that carried their water supply on the engine rather than in the tender.

In Leone's westerns the spanish locomotives were given makeovers to resemble these american types, and they do so quite convincingly. They look almost right but in a strange foreign way which adds to the magic that surrounds these movies.

But if one were to look at old time locomotive photos of the 1850's and 60's you find that the numerous locomotive works in the south and north built an assortment of wierd looking motive power that actually and accidentily resembles some of the movies engines.  

The two wheel trucks may or may not still have been used on the rolling stock. This is what most viewers notice first as something that is not right. However the early trains of the 1830's had only 2 wheel trucks on the rolling stock and the switch over to 4 wheel trucks may have been gradual. The heavy weight passenger "Pullmans" had 6 wheel trucks.

The other noticeable difference is the train whistle. Most american audiences expect a deeper throatier whistle that the high pitched shriek.

Again, remember our collective memories may all be colored by Movies and TV since the advent of sound, and the remaining engines that survived to be in the movies. Its entierly possible that whistles may have varied with the manufacturer, every whistle has its own tune, so to speak!

Leone was pushing the envelope with his GBU trains. There were no railroads in New Mexico at the time of the Civil War. Texas had about 9 but none very close to the New Mexico Civil War action.

A few of the names of the Texas RR's: Since we don't know for sure pick your favorite for the one Leone was portraying.

Buffalo Bayou, Brazos & Colorado RR
Galveston & Red River RR
San Antonio & Texas RR
Texas & New Orleans RR
Memphis, El Paso & Pacific RR
Eastern Texas RR
Indianola RR
Texas & Pacific RR





Title: Re:The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on September 27, 2004, 07:22:14 PM
The follow up pics from "A Locomotive Engineer's Album" by George B. Addill:


This first image below is a classic "American" Style 440 or (ooOO wheel arrangement) locomotive this type is the one usually filmed this is probably a factor from the sheer numbers manufactured. Note the "baloon" smokestack.



(http://img49.exs.cx/img49/7190/se440am.jpg)

Below is a "Mogul" Style 260 (oOOO wheel arangement) locomotive another classic again sheer numbers insure survival of some examples to the present day. This has a straight stack with a cinder catcher at the top.

(http://img74.exs.cx/img74/2889/se280mogul.jpg)

Next up an American with a curved stack that incorporated a pipe to direct cinders between the rails. It looks like a pipe stem.

 (http://img65.exs.cx/img65/4164/se440curvestack.jpg)

Leone western looking locomotive a 060 (OOO wheel arrangement) This engine has angled cylinders.

(http://img73.exs.cx/img73/7395/se060.jpg)


The Consolidation Type 280 (oOOOO) shown below was usually employed of freight drags note the straight stack.


(http://img61.exs.cx/img61/3844/se280con.jpg)

Below are two styles of saddle tankers a 242 (oOOo) with cow catchers at both ends and a 240 (oOO)

(http://img37.exs.cx/img37/9896/se242sadtank.jpg)


(http://img37.exs.cx/img37/5765/se240.jpg)

Next up is an 1893 242 (oOOo) "Mother Hubbard" or "Camelback" locomotive its cab was in the middle of the engine,  engineer on one side fireman on the other they communicated through a speaking tube.

(http://img3.exs.cx/img3/1364/se242cam.jpg)

South of the border down Mexico way here is a pic of a Scottish built 440 (ooOO) locomotive running on the Mexican railway, this one really has a European look, reminded me on the Prussian loco used in "A Bullet for the General".

(http://img73.exs.cx/img73/8065/se440scott.jpg)






Title: Re:The Damn Trains!
Post by: redyred on September 28, 2004, 09:55:03 AM
I'm assuming all have noticed the broad gauge track in Leone's westerns

Can't say I have Joe, but I'll take your word for it!


Title: Re:The Damn Trains!
Post by: Blueberry on September 29, 2004, 12:54:00 AM
I' m amazed! And I too will take your word for all this stuff


Title: Re:The Damn Trains!
Post by: KERMIT on September 29, 2004, 01:02:25 AM
cj do you have the stats telling the difference between spainish RR tracks and the american ones ? i've forgoten where on the board this valuable info is.
spainish RR tracks were much wider than american tracks, ect.  

http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/003/011gsqfq.asp


Title: Re:The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on September 29, 2004, 02:12:53 PM
They had six feet between the rails americam standard gauge is 4'8".


Title: Re:The Damn Trains!
Post by: General Sibley on September 30, 2004, 11:20:04 AM
Very cool CJ.  You forget what an amazing invention the railroad was - these machines look dated now, but imagine how futuristic they looked back in that day.  


Title: Re:The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on October 04, 2004, 06:30:49 PM
(http://img3.exs.cx/img3/1433/ErieBroadGauge.jpg)

Another pic from "A locomotive Engineer's Album" by George B Adbill.

This is a good illustration of Standard & Broad Gauge. This is the broad gauge Erie RR 1879. A broad gauge work train of empty gravel cars is paused on a temporary siding waiting to be backed into the track at the far right to be loaded by a steam shovel. To the left is a double track main line. This particular double track section was also used by the standard gauge Lehigh Valley RR, so an extra rail was laid between the Erie tracks to accomodate the Lehigh Valley trains both used the left side rail of both tracks.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on June 29, 2005, 09:03:02 PM
You can see the same three rail track system in Companero's  ;D.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on June 29, 2005, 09:07:39 PM
A link to the locomotives available to Carlo Simi.

http://www.locomotoravapor.com/


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: KERMIT on July 01, 2005, 06:45:25 PM
http://www.locomotoravapor.com/fotosupload/castlamancha/e95.jpg   

great site joe. thanks.  ;D


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: iceman on July 03, 2005, 05:57:14 PM
A link to the locomotives available to Carlo Simi.

http://www.locomotoravapor.com/

CJ remind me again who Carlo Simi is ??? ??? ???

Ice


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on July 03, 2005, 06:08:28 PM
Carlo Simi, set & costume designer on a lot of the SW's.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: Ramon on July 04, 2005, 11:19:56 AM

Carlo Simi had a cameo in Few Dollars more as the El Paso bank manager.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: iceman on July 04, 2005, 03:27:26 PM
Carlo Simi had a cameo in Few Dollars more as the El Paso bank manager.

Thanks CJ and Ramon...I never new that. These little snippits of information just makes the appeal of the trilogy that little more interesting :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Ice


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: Tucos wife on July 18, 2005, 12:46:32 PM
Wow, another reason why I love this board. I am nuts about steam engines. My mom's side of the family were all railroad workers and worked on steam engines in the old days. My uncle just retired as Conducter on the CPR (Canadian Pacific Railway) and I'm told I have that railroad calling because I'm so obscessed and I have definately looked into it tons of times but the shift work kinda makes me think (pulling switches at 4:00am on a sunday in january in -47 celcius temps makes me cringe) I can't get up in the morning as it is.

This is a pic of the "Muskeg Express", it is from 1910 and was a Narrow Gauge logging train, carrying logs back from the bush. It's gas now but back then it was steam probably from wood.  I grew up in Thunder Bay and trains put the town on the map. There was no way around the region but by train until the 30's when the highway was built.  Horses were used right up til the 30's in logging camps but the train helped in industrious camps. My grandpa worked in a camp just like that while helping to build the Trans-Canada highway in the 30's. Muskeg comes from the fact that Thunder Bay is built on swamp (muskeg) hahahaha. LOTS of blackflies and skeeters. And I'm going up for a visit soon, I'll be sure to get some good bites LOL


http://www.tbsource.com/pictures/view.asp?cid=69943&imageid=67937&returnurl=






Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on July 18, 2005, 04:54:55 PM
funky looking & cool, lol.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: leonehayrani on July 19, 2005, 03:01:17 PM
This train info is indeed great, as I am a train lover also.  Considering what they had to work with, and that American trains were not nearly so uniform-looking in reality as American westerns (especially older ones) seem to make out, Leone and Simi did a great job at "Americanising" the Spanish trains, not to mention everything else.

I read once, in fact, that after several years of spaghetti westerns, people got so used to seeing the Italian/Spanish "west" and all its details that when people started making more westerns, even some non-American-made films, in the US SW or Mexico, people ironically felt that they didn't look "authentic" enough.  That is a testament to the power of film in imprinting minds.  People came to expect the SW to look like the Italina/Spanish version and thought it looked wrong when filmed in the real SW/Mexico.  I don't remember where I read it, though, or when people had that reaction.  I don't think it was in relation to the Wild Bunch, and I think it as later in the 70s, when spaghettis had pretty much run out of steam. 



Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 17, 2005, 11:55:57 AM
I too am a train lover, as well as SW lover!!! I just wanted to know if anybody has pictures of the locomotives used in Once Upon a Time in the West and what they look like today ( if they still exist )? I know there were 4 locos used in that movie but the commentary said there was only two?


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: Ramon on August 17, 2005, 03:38:38 PM
One SW locomotive that still exists is the one from Bullet for a General (or Quien Sabe), its in a shed at Guadix railway station, still works and is brought out on special occasions.

The train with the large smoke stack i.e. Mortimers's train in FDM, Tuco's in GBU and seen passing through Flagstone in OTW, no longer exists. I've seen a photo taken by Michel Commes in Guadix showing the train in a very bad state ready for scrap.

Not sure what happened to the other OTW trains, certainly no evidence of them in the Guadix area these days.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 18, 2005, 02:46:40 PM
I never saw A Bullet for the General so I don't know which train you're talking about. I found an article saying it was Mortimer's train from For a Few Dollars More that was sitting in the shed. Maybe there were just two locomotives in OUTITW?


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on August 18, 2005, 07:00:30 PM
The Locomotive from ABFTG is a Prussian style locomotive with red painted highlights, Euro style twin bumpers on the front no cow catcher triple headlights in a triangle shape.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on October 20, 2005, 05:18:07 PM
Here is a cool site of old Railroad maps from the Library of Congress. Pick a map and then you can zoom in on it. Checked out the New Mexico RR Map there wasn't a RR near it in fact Tucumcari wasn't even named Tucumcari on the maps in the 1890's looks like its original name or the closest locality to it was Ft. Bascomb.


http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/gmdhtml/rrhtml/rrhome.html


Go to the Mexico section and then map 10, zoom into New Nexico, follow the railroad west into Arizona through Santa Fe, Albequerque, Ft. Wingate, Prescott, Flagstaff, Aztec, Aubery, the only ones I haven't found yet are Valencia, Cattle Corner and lol Sweetwater.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: marmota-b on November 02, 2006, 06:39:36 AM
CJ, thanks a lot for the link, I've just realised it might be useful for my seminary work about OUATITW! This board really is a treasury...


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: The Peacemaker on November 02, 2006, 03:32:52 PM
Jesus, I see my first post ever.

A stroll down memory lane.  :D


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: marmota-b on November 03, 2006, 06:17:16 AM
Jesus, I see my first post ever.

A stroll down memory lane.  :D

 :D
What was my first post ever? ??? I must look into my history.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on November 17, 2006, 09:02:26 PM
When I watched Tombstone the other night there was a sequence where Wyatt shoots down Buckskin Frank at the Tuson Station at night.

This is a good example of what things are coming to with film and where we are headed because for one thing we see steam comming out from beneath the passanger cars ???, then as the train backs out of the station we see the locomotive but its obviously not fired up and only being pulled backwards with fake steam for special effects, lol,  the way you can tell is because the sound effects they are using is for a steam engine thats running a lot faster than what is shown backing out. its basically going,  chug-chug-chug-chug-chug-chug-chug-chug-chug- rather than a first chug..........chug........chug, etc., etc. slowly getting faster. The sound guys know nothing about locomotives.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: The Peacemaker on November 17, 2006, 09:08:31 PM
Oh yeah, I remember that. Same thing happens in ABFTG at the end. You can tell that GMV after he shoots the American that the " train car " is being pushed by him.  ::)


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: marmota-b on November 18, 2006, 08:43:39 AM
Or that silent film grandma let record on DVD... No idea how is it called in English, Peacemaker didn't know it. ;) It's all about trains, but there are so many flaws - like that scene, where a locomotive goes fast to a house (depot, I think) and they give it a VERY short time to reverse, actually start worrying about it in moment when they are about 10-15 m from it, I think. So father said: it would already break through that wall long time before.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: The Peacemaker on November 18, 2006, 08:51:10 AM
Are you sure it's not "The General?"  I never saw it, so I wouldn't know.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: marmota-b on November 18, 2006, 09:04:01 AM
Are you sure it's not "The General?"  I never saw it, so I wouldn't know.

Definitelly not. It's about children.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: marmota-b on March 06, 2007, 02:22:53 PM
I know there were 4 locos used in that movie but the commentary said there was only two?

I noticed at least three. One signed 71 - that's the one at the train Harmonica comes with as well as the train Jill comes with. (Is it the same train or not? I guess it should be.) Then there's the one at Morton's private train, that one's signed 471. And then the one in the end, not signed and looking more "used". There might be another one, most likely in the scene where Harmonica's following Wobbles.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on March 06, 2007, 04:47:50 PM
yea the scene with Harmonica following Wobbles has 2 but don't know which two.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: marmota-b on March 07, 2007, 08:06:28 AM
BTW, Cigar Joe, some of the pictures you posted here are missing... could you try to upload them again? They're really interesting.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on March 07, 2007, 03:56:54 PM
Quote
BTW, Cigar Joe, some of the pictures you posted here are missing... could you try to upload them again? They're really interesting.

On this particular thread marmota-b? I just checked and they are all here as far as I can see.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: Juan Miranda on March 07, 2007, 04:06:36 PM
I'm seeing this on a few images CJ:

(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Tarkyhitch/goto.png)

The dreaded frog!

You must still have them as temp. internet files, I suspect.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on March 07, 2007, 04:39:28 PM
That could be I was freeing up some memory space.

Let me know which ones marmota


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: marmota-b on March 08, 2007, 12:44:25 AM
Those signed:
Here below is a 422 (ooOo) that looks like something out of a Leone western.
and
Below are two styles of saddle tankers a 242 (oOOo) with cow catchers at both ends and a 240 (oOO)


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: marmota-b on March 08, 2007, 01:29:27 AM
I'm assuming all have noticed the broad gauge track in Leone's westerns

I didn't actually, but father did. ;) Which lead to a so-called "15 minutes presentation". That means, everytime father notices something interesting, he starts talking about it as long until he finishes his knowledge about the subject. And that means I have quite a good basic knowledge about it now. ;D

He said there had been broad gauge railways in the South, but after the Civil War they had been rebuilt to Standard. And I have it proven from a book...


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: The Peacemaker on March 08, 2007, 04:26:07 PM
He said there had been broad gauge railways in the South, but after the Civil War they had been rebuilt to Standard. And I have it proven from a book...

That is true but there were few major railroad systems built west of the Mississippi river at the time of the Civil War. Besides, the film shows that the railroad was under control of the Union not the Confederacy.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on March 08, 2007, 04:31:40 PM
The A&S ( Albany & Syracuse or Albany & Schenectedy forget which) here in New York state was a broad gauge as the Erie.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: The Peacemaker on March 08, 2007, 04:45:11 PM
The A&S ( Albany & Syracuse or Albany & Schenectedy forget which) here in New York state was a broad gauge as the Erie.

That's true, but most likely the Union army would want a standard or narrow gauge railroad in New Mexico. The smaller the gauge, the easier it is to navigate tight curves and climb mountains similar to those in the Southwest.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on March 08, 2007, 09:30:16 PM
Quote
That's true, but most likely the Union army would want a standard or narrow gauge railroad in New Mexico. The smaller the gauge, the easier it is to navigate tight curves and climb mountains similar to those in the Southwest.

That's true it was all up to The RR Companies whatever they happend to settle on to start with,  I forgot what year the (Society of Railroad Engineers) country decided on 4' 8" as standard.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: marmota-b on March 09, 2007, 03:38:36 AM
Well, as father says, he's no expert on American railways. And it was in GBU, not OUATITW, so that was Civil War time. ;) I'm more of an observer here, because I don't know so much about it, but it's great to read your posts. :)


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on April 02, 2008, 09:28:47 PM
Haven't been on this topic for quite a while.

One easy way to date steam locomotives in Westerns the ones with the "Wild West"  ooOO and oOOO wheel arrangements is pay attention to their headlights/lamps.

Earliest headlights were coal oil (kerosene) and the lantern was housed in an elaborate box with a large amplifying lens that sat atop the front of the smokebox.

(http://img74.exs.cx/img74/2889/se280mogul.jpg)
Railroads were slow to adopt to electricity and in the 1890's the first electric headlamps were carbon arc (basically if you've seen arc welding it's that intense bright blue-white light) The first were housed in boxes similar to or intitially the same as the kerosene style ones but  they had to make them bigger they had a prominent peak at the top to accommodate the arc rods and to vent out the high heat and were about six inches wider so the heat wouldn't crack the lens. These lights threw a beam 20 miles ahead of the train, and actually blinded engineers on passing trains until they figured out a switch to lower the intensity. The image below shows an adapted kerosene lamp box notice the lens housing is not flush with the box as in the top image, but pushed out about six inches by a cylinder housing.

(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9779/carbonarcho5.png)

Finally around the turn of the century they switched to incandescent lights and these were housed in cylindrical tubes that at first sat atop the boilers where the old kerosene lamps did and some migrated lower down to the center of the smokebox.

(http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/6172/locomotivearclampxb6.png)

The botom two images are from this site if you want to read more:

http://einhornpress.com/headlights.aspx

In "Three Godfathers " the two steam engines at the beginning of the film are from two different time periods the one with the Box headlamp is correct for the film 1850-1880's the newer one with the round cylindrical light is 1890-1900's.

Same with the film Santa Fe that I saw tonight the work train engine correct for the 1860-80's the payroll engine is too modern.



Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: marmota-b on April 03, 2008, 03:45:18 AM
 O0
Any observations about OUATITW? I'm afraid I still wouldn't be able to recognise the first two lamps - not in the pictures; in reality and with the lamps working I most probably would. ;D

Actually, we haven't been here for over a year. What a shame!


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on April 03, 2008, 06:03:13 AM
With OUTITW they are all modern locomotives "dressed" to look like American "Wild West" style, if I remember right they all have the kerosene style headlight boxes and cowcatchers.
The only part they didn't disguise was the porthole style windows on the Spanish locos.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on April 03, 2008, 08:44:17 PM
Here are those images that you mentioned were missing marmota.

Both of these American loco's look like something out of a Spaghetti Western. They have the familiar but surreal quality that the "dressed" Spanish loco's had.

I think I mentioned this in another thread but the majority of American Westerns used almost the same dozen steam locomotives in their films, the Virgina City & Truckee RR, the Sierra RR,  the Nacional de Mexico( in Durango) and one or two Oregon RR's for the "Wild West" wheel arrangement (ooOO) types. The narrow gauge Denver & Rio Grande was used in a number of films. In "The Professionals" and "The Wild Bunch" I believe the turn of the century looking locos were from an Arizona's Magma mine railway and again from the Nacional de Mexico.
 
(http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/1492/se422jj8.jpg)

The loco below shows slanted steam cylinders, I believe (if I remember right) in "The Great Locomotive Chase" or Anderson's raid during the Civil War one of the engines chasing "The General" was similar to the image below.

(http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/2355/se060ln7.jpg)


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: marmota-b on April 04, 2008, 02:26:28 AM
Both of these American loco's look like something out of a Spaghetti Western. They have the familiar but surreal quality that the "dressed" Spanish loco's had.

Indeed. O0 And I like them much more than the big ones... probably because of that "familiar" quality. Except for the cowcatcher they sort of look like something you could have met somewhere on a local railway in Europe... though I don't have the necessary knowledge to tell.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: marmota-b on April 04, 2008, 08:36:17 AM
 :)


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on April 04, 2008, 04:36:05 PM
Nice screen caps A1.

The loco in the original looks definitely late 1890's to early 1900's, though a lot of older locos were rebuilt & upgraded, I know of a book where I can find for sure.

The new version loco looks more in the 1850's to 1880's range though it looks a bit small for a mainline road engine more like a yard switcher. 

Take a comaprison between the historical fourth picture down from the book title image and the third picture up from the movie still with Crowe, look at the size of the driving wheels. On the vintage photo they are probably 60 inch or better drivers in the new version film  the engine has at best 36 inch drivers.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on April 05, 2008, 05:02:24 AM
If it was built in 1907 then it had to be retrograded to look like a typical wood burner from the 1850-1880 period, to give it the correct look, the original 1907 would have had an electric light, it was probably a yard switcher.  Most of the ooOO wheel arangement "Americans" looked the same just got bigger & more powerful throught the years. The remake's engine is a oOOO a "Mogul".

Another give away is that the passanger trains had the big driving wheels for speed the small drivers were for traction.


To bad the director couldn't incorporate the snow storm to the story what a loss.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: marmota-b on April 05, 2008, 05:32:26 AM
To bad the director couldn't incorporate the snow storm to the story what a loss.

I like the snow too.
I'm going to see it today, so it's interesting to see here now what I should be looking for in the film. O0
BTW, what does it feel like, saying "I want a ticket for 3:10 to Yuma"? ;D


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on April 05, 2008, 06:47:43 PM
Just one correction on the Gatling Gun it had to be post 1872 with that builders plate.  O0


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: marmota-b on April 06, 2008, 01:17:54 AM
It was interesting, to hear the characters saying "Gatling" and reading "kulomet" in the subtitles... I wonder whether it's really the correct Czech term for it. ??? Of course, you cannot know.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on April 07, 2008, 05:57:10 AM
I have a buddy of mine from high school who's parents had two Army/Navy Surplus stores in Manhattan and one of them was also contained the only gunshop existing in Manhattan in the 1960's, we were both big Leone fans.  He lived in a penthouse apt down in The Village. In that aptment was a huge Civil War Collection of pristeen arms both Confederate & Union, we were like kids in a candy store.   8)

The topper though was down in the store (the one that no longer exists) at the corner of Houston & Broadway it no longer had arms for sale, that had been moved to the 42nd street location, in the back on the loading dock was a Gatling Gun very similar to the one in the above also with the vertical clip but still mounted upon a wooden field carridge, it was very cool giving it a crank.  O0

Don't know what happend to that gun after the Houston St. store shut down.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on April 07, 2008, 06:07:44 AM
Here on Don Ross's page  bottom link are some of the locomotives of the WT Carter Lumber co in a scrap line at WT Carter Lumber before restoration. And some other shots of what they originally looked like.

Its the 4th one down looks different in original form don't it?  Again it was a logging railroad which explains why the engine drivers on the remake 3:10 to Yuma's steam engine were small (it was for traction) logging railroads had steeper grades and sharper curves than mainline railroads so they required more smaller engines with greater traction rather than speed.

Again most passanger steam locomotives had "high" drivers.

http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr1104.htm





Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on April 07, 2008, 07:18:24 AM
The restoration looks quite different from the original version of the loco, looks like a typical tourist railroad. In the film it looks like a toy train,  almost too small to pull the cars, lol.

Here are some vintage Baldwin 2-6-0's from Nevada they all just look larger than the 1907 restoration, I think, anyway just click to see the images you can see how they ( the Baldwin 2-6-0's ) progressed from 1869 to 1878:

http://www.nsrm-friends.org/nsrm09.html


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: graysev on September 07, 2010, 06:18:28 PM
When a steam locomotive from China was brought to the states,it's wheel configuration had to be changed to fit American rails. Most European rails are wider than American rails. Leone wanted to show something entirely different,which is what made him good.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: marmota-b on September 08, 2010, 12:37:55 AM
Most European rails are wider than American rails.

Are they? I believed most had the standard gauge. We certainly do here in the Czech Republic, and always have had. And those local railways here that are different tend to be narrower, not wider. I think the whole former Austrio-Hungarian Empire would be the same case.
It's wider in the former USSR, as far as I know, and Spain. I'd have to ask dad.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: graysev on September 08, 2010, 06:29:08 PM
I have several videos from European countries.Between them and what I have read in Trains magazines,they say they are wider than American rails. 


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: marmota-b on September 08, 2010, 11:50:18 PM
I have several videos from European countries.

What countries are those?

(I now have a feeling that they might be just a smidge wider as a result of inches/metric, but that's just my feeling. After all, father often uses inches when he talks about gauges.)

As far as I know, from France through Germany, Austria and Liechtenstein (which is practically only one Austrian railway) to Czech Republic, Slovakia and Poland it's all standard gauge. It's wider in Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, and Russia, too. I don't know for sure about all the other countries, but, as I mentioned in my previous post, I suppose it's standard in Hungary as well. And so are, I believe, Netherlands and Belgium (because I don't recall anyone talking about gauge problems when travelling from Germany to Netherlands).
Switzerland, from what I know from my father (and my own journey to Liechtenstein), has many railways, some standard, some narrow and who knows what else.

I suppose Chinese railways are similar to Russian ones.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: graysev on September 09, 2010, 08:15:12 AM
China and Russia are the same.  There is one track in China,can't remember where right now,but the track is on an extremely high bridge.It seems as though the bridge is very skinny,at least to the viewer,but,in reality,it is wide.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: marmota-b on September 10, 2010, 08:32:27 AM
OK:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Rail_gauge_world.png
I think it's proven that most of Europe has standard gauge.
Unless you count Russia as most of Europe just because of its land area.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: graysev on September 10, 2010, 10:05:39 AM
You've done your homework. Good for you! O0


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: marmota-b on September 10, 2010, 01:48:00 PM
Father was on one of his railway trips, so I had to figure it out myself. ;D


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: graysev on September 11, 2010, 10:39:42 AM
Sometimes that's the best way.  O0


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: UNKNOWN Next to Arch Stanton on April 05, 2012, 02:20:00 PM
Russia uses 5-foot gauge, although China is standard gauge like the U.S. Western Europe, however; meaning Spain and Portugal, use 5-foot guage. This slight difference in distance between the rails is noticeable in both FOFDM and TGTBATU.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on April 05, 2012, 02:31:50 PM
Yea you do notice it if you look at trains a lot.

I see that a lot of images that I posted when this was a new topic are history.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: Cusser on April 06, 2012, 07:41:41 AM
Durango to Silverton Coloado (still running) is a narrower gauge, built that way because of the terrain, for mining.

Of course, the ONLY time I was in Durango I actually had tickets for this, but starting THAT DAY the railway was closed due to fire threat.  We drove up, saw flames maybe about 1 mile from the raod; fear was that a coal could spark another fire (early 2000s).  So we went on a 4-hour "City Slickers" cattle round-up with the refund money (the girls all ride super well, I'm the greenhorn).


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: UNKNOWN Next to Arch Stanton on April 06, 2012, 07:59:12 AM
Supposedly, the tracks in FAFDM are  now gone, as are the tracks during the chain-cutting scene from TGTBATU.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: Senza on February 24, 2013, 07:53:42 PM
Speaking of the damn trains, does anyone else crack up at Clint's reaction when the old man says "You better get outta here before I lose my temper!"?


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: marmota-b on April 21, 2013, 04:19:11 AM
I see that a lot of images that I posted when this was a new topic are history.

Unfortunately, so are apparently A1's posts...
If you've lost those pictures, I think I still have them all saved from when I was writing that paper. I'm a hoarder of pictures.


Title: Re: The Damn Trains!
Post by: cigar joe on April 21, 2013, 05:37:49 AM
Unfortunately, so are apparently A1's posts...
If you've lost those pictures, I think I still have them all saved from when I was writing that paper. I'm a hoarder of pictures.

Thanks