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Other/Miscellaneous => Off-Topic Discussion => Topic started by: titoli on April 23, 2006, 12:18:41 PM

Title: with a little help from my friends
Post by: titoli on April 23, 2006, 12:18:41 PM
Help me please understanding whether I'm the only human on earth  preferring Ringo's to Cocker's version (that I don't like at all).


Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: Beebs on April 23, 2006, 06:27:37 PM
You're not the only one. Beatles version over anybody's version of anything. Well, Johnny Cash did a nice In My Life.
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: The Firecracker on April 23, 2006, 06:29:29 PM
Beatles version over anybody's version of anything.


well only if it is their own stuff. But when they started remaking stuff like "Twist and Shout" back in their early career, I always preferred the original.


Also dont forget "Roll over Bethoven".
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: titoli on April 24, 2006, 06:58:43 AM
Ray Charles' version of Eleanor Rigby helped me appreciate the song. His Yesterday is on a par with the Beatles'.
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: titoli on April 24, 2006, 07:02:55 AM
I forgot Elvis' Hey Jude. Can't beat the original, but gets even: not a mean feat. Never liked Wilson Pickett's.
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: dave jenkins on April 24, 2006, 01:50:19 PM
I liked the Steve Hillage covers of It's All Too Much and Getting Better. I never liked Joe Cocker doing anything....
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: The Firecracker on April 24, 2006, 01:56:47 PM
approach with caution when listening to a beatles remake.

sir Elton John did a fine job with "Lucy in the sky with Diamonds" I must say.

Some woman artist I have never heard of did "across the universe" which was a complete disaster.
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: Banjo on April 24, 2006, 03:42:04 PM
Help me please understanding whether I'm the only human on earth  preferring Ringo's to Cocker's version (that I don't like at all).



I'd say they're about even and its great that they are so different.Ringo isn't a great singer but i love the humour inherent in his rendition.Joe Cocker is possibly THE highlight of Woodstock apart from Hendrix maybe!
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: franksgrandson on April 24, 2006, 05:27:28 PM
did the song Hey Jude come up, well well well I really hate this song its down in the pit of hell.
Whenever Macca is in concert on telly you just know we are going to be treated to the extended 12inch version of the song it drives me up the wall.
My guess is on having to suffer this horrible number Frank, Harmonica and Cheyenne would have become best of mates, rode over to see Blonde, Tuco and Angel eyes who are having a quite drink together, sprung Indio from a max securtiy Jail joined up with the Rojos and shot Macca down for playing it, and as Macca writhes on the ground Jill would deny him any water just so we would never suffer that dirge again, give me the Frogs song anyday
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: The Firecracker on April 24, 2006, 05:29:57 PM
did the song Hey Jude come up, well well well I really hate this song its down in the pit of hell.



you dont like Macca's version? Or you just hate the song period?
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: Banjo on April 24, 2006, 05:33:15 PM
Hey Jude rocks!!!-for me the outro could go on for ever and ever which of course it does! :D
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: The Firecracker on April 24, 2006, 05:34:44 PM
Hey Jude rocks!!!-for me the outro could go on for ever and ever which of course it does! :D

3 minutes and a half!!!!!!
I love it so!!!!!!

Another outro that goes on forever is Simon and Garfunkel's "The boxer". I love that too. its the best part of the song!!!!

Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: Banjo on April 24, 2006, 05:37:40 PM
That songs a pain in the arse to play bass on for me though-we do it differently every time :(
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: franksgrandson on April 24, 2006, 05:38:37 PM
I just hate the song
why can't he do some of the other older Beatles numbers
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: The Firecracker on April 24, 2006, 05:39:14 PM
That songs a pain in the arse to play bass on for me though-we do it differently every time :(

what "the Boxer"? or "Hey Jude"?
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: The Firecracker on April 24, 2006, 05:40:05 PM
I just hate the song
why can't he do some of the other older Beatles numbers

so your a fan of the early beatles then?


I like both sides of the change. I tend to lean towards the more trippy stuff though.
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: Banjo on April 24, 2006, 05:42:36 PM
what "the Boxer"? or "Hey Jude"?
The Boxer-its so wordy that for some reason i suffer mental blocks with it and play very quietly-we do all Amercican folk stuff-btw have you seen A Mighty Wind?
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: The Firecracker on April 24, 2006, 05:45:01 PM
btw have you seen A Mighty Wind?

no I am afraid not.
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: Banjo on April 24, 2006, 05:47:07 PM
Its the folk music version of Spinal Tap-the same makers in fact-a bit more subtle but just as funny!
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: The Firecracker on April 24, 2006, 05:48:31 PM
Its the folk music version of Spinal Tap-the same makers in fact-a bit more subtle but just as funny!

Liked "Spinal tap".

Is mighty wind from the same director who did "waiting for guffman" and "best in show"?
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: Banjo on April 24, 2006, 05:50:58 PM
Christopher Guest-sure is :D
I haven't seen waiting for Guffman and i'm still kicking myself for missing Best In Show on TV last year when Crufts was showing :'(
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: The Firecracker on April 24, 2006, 05:51:59 PM
Christopher Guest-sure is :D
I haven't seen waiting for Guffman and i'm still kicking myself for missing Best In Show on TV last year when Crufts was showing :'(

saw   "best in show". It is pretty damn funny.
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: titoli on April 25, 2006, 01:39:46 AM
Though Hey Jude's is wonderful, the outro of The Boxer moves me like nothing else. Actually I like the song starting from "in the clearing stands a boxer". What precedes I could do without. Hey Jude is good from the beginning. The Beatles outro is better than Elvis, though  I prefer  his version for what comes before.
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: Banjo on April 25, 2006, 04:24:50 PM
saw   "best in show". It is pretty damn funny.
Yeah i might try and pick up both Guest movies i'm missing-these movies really get to me! :)
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: Tim on April 26, 2006, 09:17:48 PM
  For me, the trippier Beatles stuff is the best.  I like the early, pop music, but Sgt. Pepper is one of the best albums ever. 

  And Day in the Life is my favorite Beatles song.  Do I smell a new poll?  ;D
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: The Firecracker on April 26, 2006, 09:31:16 PM


  And Day in the Life is my favorite Beatles song.  Do I smell a new poll?  ;D


"Day in the life" is one of my favs as well (if not my fav) along with "Norwegian Wood" and "I am the Walrus".
"Something" is also on my top ten.
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: titoli on April 27, 2006, 04:10:19 PM
Quote
And Day in the Life is my favorite Beatles song.


it is mine too, and it was also Frank Zappa's (along with I am the Walrus and another I don't remember. Maybe Nowhere Man?). Which is saying a lot, I presume. But then I listen to one of the other 150 good ones they made and I become uncertain whether it is right to say I have a personal favourite.
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: Banjo on April 27, 2006, 04:51:21 PM
  For me, the trippier Beatles stuff is the best.  I like the early, pop music, but Sgt. Pepper is one of the best albums ever. 

  And Day in the Life is my favorite Beatles song.  Do I smell a new poll?  ;D
Revolver and the White Album are great records too!Not forgetting Shabby Road(or is that The Rutles ;D).
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: titoli on April 27, 2006, 07:02:05 PM
Well, White Album has the double of songs it should have. Is there anybody here who really likes Obladì-Oblada? Or Good Night? Or Revolution n.9? (I could go on).
Yes, you have masterpieces like Happiness is a Warm Gun or Helter Skelter or Sexy Sadie, but too much crap as well. 
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: The Firecracker on April 27, 2006, 08:15:04 PM
Obladì-Oblada?


I do. ;D
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: Tim on April 27, 2006, 10:56:32 PM
  At the school I'm at, there's a class offered through the Music School dedicated solely to the Beatles.  The same professor also teaches a history of rock 'n roll class.  I never get around to taking these classes, but they're the stuff of legends.  Students who've taken them rave about both.

  Apparently, people leave class crying on certain days, Beatles breaking up, John dies, Yoko lol, but you get the idea.
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: The Firecracker on April 27, 2006, 10:58:06 PM
  Yoko lol,

poor Yoko. :'(
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: Tim on April 27, 2006, 10:59:20 PM
  Take it back, Firecracker.  Take it back right now.   ;D
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: The Firecracker on April 27, 2006, 11:02:34 PM
  Take it back, Firecracker.  Take it back right now.   ;D


ok ya caught me ;D
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: The Firecracker on April 28, 2006, 02:52:07 AM
Revolver and the White Album are great records too!Not forgetting Shabby Road(or is that The Rutles ;D).


"Abbey Road" isnt shabby >:(


(dont worry I got the reference ;) )

OUCH!
dont desert me
OUCH!
please dont hurt me
OW
OW
OUCH! ;)
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: Banjo on April 28, 2006, 05:19:59 AM
Well, White Album has the double of songs it should have. Is there anybody here who really likes Obladì-Oblada? Or Good Night? Or Revolution n.9? (I could go on).
Yes, you have masterpieces like Happiness is a Warm Gun or Helter Skelter or Sexy Sadie, but too much crap as well. 
Like the Stones Exile on Main Street and Dylans & The Bands Basement Tapes leave it all in i say,warts and all!
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: titoli on April 28, 2006, 03:22:36 PM
Can't see that many warts in Exile. Though the problem with it is it doesn't have the usual 2-3 big hits the other albums had. In fact I don't think any song of it has survived in Stones' live renditions: that must mean something. It is the Stones best album, but also a proof that albums are not what the Stones are made of. I wouldn't trade Honky Tonk Women for it.
About Dylan, I learned my English on his songs (well, I got my start with the Beatles, like I guess another billion people on the not yet globalized planet).  That's what they are good for. Or at least what they were good for me.  Musically they are nil, actually I think that Dylan's influence was negative for rock music. It laid so much importance on the lyrics, while what rock is about is mostly sound and rhythm. Really, I don't think that any of his songs is as good as, say, Wooly Bully or Surfin' Bird. 
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: Banjo on April 29, 2006, 06:09:41 AM
Its not my favourite Stones album and it doesn't really contain many of their best songs but this album (which i understand was recorded on a mobile unit) has a consistency of feel and atmosphere throughout which makes it compulsive listening.The same goes for Led Zeppelins Physical Graffitti  and The Clash's London Calling(where they stole the album cover from Elvis!).
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: Banjo on April 29, 2006, 06:20:15 AM
  Musically they are nil, actually I think that Dylan's influence was negative for rock music. It laid so much importance on the lyrics, while what rock is about is mostly sound and rhythm.
What?
I think its safe to assume that the Beatles would still've been pushing out throwaway stuff like She Loves You Yeah if the Beatles and Lennon especially had not met Dylan or heard any of his records.It was a two way thing because Dylan was equally influenced by going electric from  Bringing It All Back Home onwards and with the next two Highway 61 Revisited and Blonde on Blonde produced not only a unique blend of rock and roll,these were two of the best rock albums of the '60's if not of all time.
Dylan did not just influence the Beatles with his lyrics but a whole new generation of bands on both sides of the Atlantic including the Byrds(who i prefer to the Beatles) and alot of West Coast bands like the Grateful Dead and Jefferson Airplane.I think its safe to say the the one major influence on Hendrix's songs was Dylan.I could go on and on!!
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: titoli on April 29, 2006, 04:01:54 PM
I knew you were going to come up with this. So, not to start a never-ending discussion, I'll concede that Dylan was good as an influence  but not as an artist. 
About anybody being better than the Beatles, bah...Thought this had been settled by the fact that both old generations and new generations are familiar with their song in any part of the world. Artists from different fields of music (classical music, Broadway, jazz) expressed their appreciation towards their music. When you put together people like Leonard Bernstein, Luciano Berio, Count Basie, Duke Ellington, Chick Corea, Goffredo Petrassi, Richard Rodgers (this is only a partial list, of course) well, probably there must be something at the base.  Try and do that with any other rock musician...

P.S. As you may well remember I like the Byrds.
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: The Firecracker on April 29, 2006, 04:06:54 PM

About anybody being better than the Beatles, bah...Thought this had been settled by the fact that both old generations and new generations are familiar with their song in any part of the world. Artists from different fields of music (classical music, Broadway, jazz) expressed their appreciation towards their music.

even though the Beatles are my favorite band I think it is a bit of an over exaggeration that you say they "are the best" simply because everybody recognizes there work. Just because something is popular doesnt mean it is the best thing since sliced bread.
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: Banjo on April 30, 2006, 01:38:08 AM
Titoli.
Popular success doesn't necessarily equate to quality(lowest common denominater factor maybe-a litle harsh when applied to The Beatles maybe but there are plenty of other crap composers like Elton John and LLoyd Webber that strong PR has fooled the masses into thinking they're something special!).Also the Beatles certainly wouldn't have been any near as successful commercially or artistically without the assistance of producer George Martin.
Dylan good as an influence but not as an artist eh?Well doesn't your old and new generation argument contradict this statement?
As regards your list of composers,i know its down to personal taste  but i'm really not enamoured with jazz-especially traditional jazz(gimme something melodic!)-but if i have to listen i'd go for the likes of Miles Davis,John McLaughlin,Pat Metheney,Jaco Pastorious,Joni Mitchell who to me are alot more interesting  in that they at least pushed the boundaries in a very dull genre and changed it for the better as did Dylan with popular music.
Without wishing to sound pompous,the music i mostly listen to never gets played on the radio,featured in glossy magazines or gets telephone votes on the tv.The Dylan and Beatles thing was very much part of my musical education when i was in my late teens and although i don't mind listening occasionally i've kinda moved onto other stuff.My tastes are very eclectic, i like
discovering new artists/genres and though i respect people(especially kids avoiding being brainwashed with Pop Idol type television programs) that like listening to the old stuff i don't really go in for nostalgia myself.
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: The Firecracker on April 30, 2006, 02:07:21 AM
crap composers like Elton John and LLoyd Webber that strong PR has fooled the masses into thinking they're something special!).


I like Elton John >:(
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: Banjo on April 30, 2006, 02:49:05 AM
Whoops :o
I'm afraid to say i find his melodies to other peoples lyrics a bit sameyand isn't really a "songwriter" in the strictest meaning of the word as often touted!
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: The Firecracker on April 30, 2006, 02:52:05 AM
Whoops :o
I'm afraid to say i find his melodies to other peoples lyrics a bit sameyand isn't really a "songwriter" in the strictest meaning of the word as often touted!


well what about HIS songs rather than other people's songs?
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: Banjo on April 30, 2006, 02:55:54 AM
I wasn't aware he wrote any of his own apart from maybe one or two.Didn't Bernie Taupin write his lyrics for the first 20 years or so?
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: The Firecracker on April 30, 2006, 03:01:09 AM
I wasn't aware he wrote any of his own apart from maybe one or two.Didn't Bernie Taupin write his lyrics for the first 20 years or so?
no way Banjo!
I gotta send you some of his songs ;D

Daniel
Someone saved my life tonight
Levon
Dont go breakin my heart
 "sorry" seems to be the hardest word


the list is endless.
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: Banjo on April 30, 2006, 03:09:45 AM
No please don't :(   I'll take your word for it.
Perhaps i shudda used another example,Cliff Richard maybe ,if you've heard of him in the USA?
I'm sticking to my guns with Lloyd-Webber though ;D
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: The Firecracker on April 30, 2006, 03:11:48 AM

I'm sticking to my guns with Lloyd-Webber though ;D

thats fine with me ;)


Havent heard of Cliff Richard...is he a local boy over there?
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: Banjo on April 30, 2006, 03:16:31 AM
An Elvis copyist in the late 50's gradually changing into a god worshiping goodie-goodie with bland songs to match-he's got the record for no 1 hits in every decade since the 50's and is every older housewives favourite.
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: The Firecracker on April 30, 2006, 03:20:21 AM
An Elvis copyist in the late 50's gradually changing into a god worshiping goodie-goodie with bland songs to match-he's got the record for no 1 hits in every decade since the 50's and is every older housewives favourite.

I guess your very own house wife cannot fit into the catergory of "older yet eh?
Title: Re: with a little help from my friends
Post by: Banjo on April 30, 2006, 03:24:51 AM
No we're talking about women in their 50s and 60s i guess.