Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Duck, You Sucker => Topic started by: Sucker on July 28, 2006, 03:16:57 PM



Title: An Irishmans view
Post by: Sucker on July 28, 2006, 03:16:57 PM
Firstly, this is a wonderful site for anyone, like me, who is passionate about SL. I've been a fan since way back when FISTFUL first appeared on our cinema screens. I've seen all the movies hundreds of times at the cinema, on video, on TV and DVD and never get tired of watching. It is, however, GIU LA TESTA that I wish to make some comments on in the first instance.
I have read most of the comments re Mallory's name and, being Irish, I can say with absolute certainty that his real name is the Gaelic name Sean.

Now, there should be a little slanted line over the "a" which is called a fada. This signifies that the "a" is long and that the name is pronounced "Shawn" rather than "Shon". When first asked his name by Juan, Mallory says "Sean" but, when he realises that Juan won't understand that name he changes it to the more-better-known and anglicised version of Sean which is John. This also sets up for the movie's sake the "destiny" of John and Juan, or Johnny and Johnny.

In relation to the name John H. Mallory in the United Irishman I believe this to be a serious error in the movie. No Republican newspaper would have printed a "wanted" ad in respect of one of their members. That piece of journalism would have appeared in one of the "ordinary" pro-British papers and they would have used John instead of Sean.
I have seen the comments that the Sean, Sean, Sean in the music is possibly referring to three Seans and that Warbeck is the third one but I don't personally believe that. There are many points in the movie where only Sean Sean is sung and during the later "killing" flashback scenes only one Sean is sung almost in a "distressful" fashion. David Warbeck's name in the movie is irrelevant. We don't even know whether he is Sean's friend or his brother or even a cousin. In my opinion the Sean, Sean, Sean is Mallory's theme alone. I would go a step further and suggest that the Sean, Sean, Sean represents the voice of the Irish girl that Mallory was in love with calling to him and, during the flashbacks in which Warbeck was killed, even chiding him or remonstrating with him for what he did. In the Ireland of yesteryear but not so much today the multiple use of words was very common in bad times. Let me give you a simple example of a husband arriving home yet again in a drunken state. His long-suffering wife would be heard to say, "Oh, Sean, Sean, Sean, what am I to do with you at all, at all".
I also disagree with one particular item in Prof. Frayling's commentary when he says that, in the final long flashback, Sean is happy to see the girl kissing Warbeck. In my opinion it is the fact that he is NOT happy with this which is a major point in the movie and is one of the reasons why he has a double reason for shooting him and ultimately goes to Mexico totally disillusioned with both revolution and love and now only "believing in dynamite".
Life for him is over. That flashback appears to happen on the same day out as the very first one we see but Leone splits the sequence into two parts so he can fool us and then surprise us with the true solution at the very end - the point of dying.
In the first part we are left in no doubt that Sean and the girl are the lovers. Warbeck, friend/brother/cousin though he is, is the odd one out.
In the second part it begins the same way as they run across the fields and Sean gets to kiss her again at the tree while Warbeck looks on. But then things change suddenly. Warbeck moves ever closer and he is, in effect, signalling to the girl "What about me?". Sean sees the girl looking past and behind him and turns around with a puzzled look on his face to see Warbeck looking at her. He turns back to kiss her again but as he does she almost
brushes him aside as she flings her arms around Warbeck (To emphasise this the straw hat is brought into close up as her right arm embraces him). The next shot of Sean is of him smiling broadly but suddenly the smile begins to fade as he for the first time realises that the kiss between the other two is passionate and that his girl and his friend/brother/cousin have been cheating on him all the while. As the shot slowly goes out of focus you can
see his lips forming the words "Oh, fxxk". In the flashback in the pub Warbeck has the choice of nodding or shaking his head when asked "Is that him?" by the British soldier. He goes for a yes and Sean realises that he is about to be not only betrayed, captured and probably executed but that Warbeck will "save himself" AND get the girl forever for himself. He then "judges once in his life" and is left to bear the consequences.
BTW, I love Coburn's Irish accent.
Sorry to go on a bit for a first post :-)


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: The Firecracker on July 28, 2006, 03:41:42 PM
a husband arriving home yet again in a drunken state. His long-suffering wife would be heard to say, "Oh, Sean, Sean, Sean, what am I to do with you at all, at all".


sound familiar Banjo? ;D


Thanks Sucker for your take on the matter of the significance  of the name "Sean" in the film.
Personally I have no real opinion on the matter. I'm never one to look further into films for fear of over analyzing everything. I have made some attmepts to make sense of the matter at hand but I really am not too "into it".
I take the film for what it is.


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: cigar joe on July 28, 2006, 05:00:31 PM
yes thanks for the insight,  :)


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: The Peacemaker on July 28, 2006, 06:19:54 PM
Firstly, this is a wonderful site for anyone, like me, who is passionate about SL. I've been a fan since way back when FISTFUL first appeared on our cinema screens. I've seen all the movies hundreds of times at the cinema, on video, on TV and DVD and never get tired of watching. It is, however, GIU LA TESTA that I wish to make some comments on in the first instance.
I have read most of the comments re Mallory's name and, being Irish, I can say with absolute certainty that his real name is the Gaelic name Sean.

Now, there should be a little slanted line over the "a" which is called a fada. This signifies that the "a" is long and that the name is pronounced "Shawn" rather than "Shon". When first asked his name by Juan, Mallory says "Sean" but, when he realises that Juan won't understand that name he changes it to the more-better-known and anglicised version of Sean which is John. This also sets up for the movie's sake the "destiny" of John and Juan, or Johnny and Johnny.

In relation to the name John H. Mallory in the United Irishman I believe this to be a serious error in the movie. No Republican newspaper would have printed a "wanted" ad in respect of one of their members. That piece of journalism would have appeared in one of the "ordinary" pro-British papers and they would have used John instead of Sean.
I have seen the comments that the Sean, Sean, Sean in the music is possibly referring to three Seans and that Warbeck is the third one but I don't personally believe that. There are many points in the movie where only Sean Sean is sung and during the later "killing" flashback scenes only one Sean is sung almost in a "distressful" fashion. David Warbeck's name in the movie is irrelevant. We don't even know whether he is Sean's friend or his brother or even a cousin. In my opinion the Sean, Sean, Sean is Mallory's theme alone. I would go a step further and suggest that the Sean, Sean, Sean represents the voice of the Irish girl that Mallory was in love with calling to him and, during the flashbacks in which Warbeck was killed, even chiding him or remonstrating with him for what he did. In the Ireland of yesteryear but not so much today the multiple use of words was very common in bad times. Let me give you a simple example of a husband arriving home yet again in a drunken state. His long-suffering wife would be heard to say, "Oh, Sean, Sean, Sean, what am I to do with you at all, at all".
I also disagree with one particular item in Prof. Frayling's commentary when he says that, in the final long flashback, Sean is happy to see the girl kissing Warbeck. In my opinion it is the fact that he is NOT happy with this which is a major point in the movie and is one of the reasons why he has a double reason for shooting him and ultimately goes to Mexico totally disillusioned with both revolution and love and now only "believing in dynamite".
Life for him is over. That flashback appears to happen on the same day out as the very first one we see but Leone splits the sequence into two parts so he can fool us and then surprise us with the true solution at the very end - the point of dying.
In the first part we are left in no doubt that Sean and the girl are the lovers. Warbeck, friend/brother/cousin though he is, is the odd one out.
In the second part it begins the same way as they run across the fields and Sean gets to kiss her again at the tree while Warbeck looks on. But then things change suddenly. Warbeck moves ever closer and he is, in effect, signalling to the girl "What about me?". Sean sees the girl looking past and behind him and turns around with a puzzled look on his face to see Warbeck looking at her. He turns back to kiss her again but as he does she almost
brushes him aside as she flings her arms around Warbeck (To emphasise this the straw hat is brought into close up as her right arm embraces him). The next shot of Sean is of him smiling broadly but suddenly the smile begins to fade as he for the first time realises that the kiss between the other two is passionate and that his girl and his friend/brother/cousin have been cheating on him all the while. As the shot slowly goes out of focus you can
see his lips forming the words "Oh, fxxk". In the flashback in the pub Warbeck has the choice of nodding or shaking his head when asked "Is that him?" by the British soldier. He goes for a yes and Sean realises that he is about to be not only betrayed, captured and probably executed but that Warbeck will "save himself" AND get the girl forever for himself. He then "judges once in his life" and is left to bear the consequences.
BTW, I love Coburn's Irish accent.
Sorry to go on a bit for a first post :-)

Hey Sucker, Duck!   ;D

Welcome to the boards. I really like your analysis of DYS, the Sean chants could very possibly be the girl who has chosen Warbeck. It could also just be the distant memories of the good old days in Ireland.


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: geoman-1 on July 29, 2006, 07:02:09 AM
Welcome aboard Sucker!

I concur with your analysis of the final flashback scene, 100%. I also believe Coburn's accent was more than adequate.
If you carefully watch this scene, you will also notice
how well choreographed it was, analogous to a ballet.
The scene really pieces the movie together and I think it is a travesty for any version to exclude the full length scene >:(

BTW Sucker, have you had the opportunity to visit the Castle or Pub film location sites??


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: Sucker on July 30, 2006, 06:47:22 AM
Thanks for the welcome, Guys.
Geoman, yes I have been to the locations recently. After seeing the original movie at the Cinema way back I searched for them but gave up assuming that it was unlikely that Leone would travel all the way to Ireland to film such short (but vital) scenes and that he probably built an Irish Pub set at Cinecitta and used maybe someplace in Italy for the outdoor.
Imagine my surprise when I learnt only this year that between 1985 and 1997 I would have walked past that pub (James Toner's in Baggott Street) at least twice every week not knowing that that was IT!!!!
Unbelievably, in a completely different today's Ireland, the pub is exactly the same as it was then.
Howth Castle where the outdoors were shot hasn't changed either. The driveway that you see in the movie leads up to a golf club and a Transport Museum but even on a busy day you can get periods when you can just walk up there, stop and quietly ponder that this is where it all happened - a strange feeling. I know it's only a movie but once you get caught up in one - well, I'm sure people here know what I mean.



Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: The Peacemaker on July 30, 2006, 01:43:48 PM
Thanks for the welcome, Guys.
Geoman, yes I have been to the locations recently. After seeing the original movie at the Cinema way back I searched for them but gave up assuming that it was unlikely that Leone would travel all the way to Ireland to film such short (but vital) scenes and that he probably built an Irish Pub set at Cinecitta and used maybe someplace in Italy for the outdoor.
Imagine my surprise when I learnt only this year that between 1985 and 1997 I would have walked past that pub (James Toner's in Baggott Street) at least twice every week not knowing that that was IT!!!!
Unbelievably, in a completely different today's Ireland, the pub is exactly the same as it was then.
Howth Castle where the outdoors were shot hasn't changed either. The driveway that you see in the movie leads up to a golf club and a Transport Museum but even on a busy day you can get periods when you can just walk up there, stop and quietly ponder that this is where it all happened - a strange feeling. I know it's only a movie but once you get caught up in one - well, I'm sure people here know what I mean.



Do you have any photos from the trip? We'd all like to see them.   :)


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: dave jenkins on July 30, 2006, 04:23:50 PM

In relation to the name John H. Mallory in the United Irishman I believe this to be a serious error in the movie. No Republican newspaper would have printed a "wanted" ad in respect of one of their members. That piece of journalism would have appeared in one of the "ordinary" pro-British papers and they would have used John instead of Sean.
Thanks, Sucker. I had a sense that something like this was operating, but I didn't know enough about the subject to be sure. I appreciate the confirmation.

I'm also glad that you feel Mallory was a "Sean." I don't understand why some feel he can't be both John and Sean; moving across cultures, people acquire any number of names.

I like your insight into the use of repetition in Irish-English speech. It's a great point and one I've never seen made anywhere else. I should point out, however, that even granting it, your idea does not necessarily exclude other understandings. That is, the "Sean, Sean, Sean" could represent the girl remonstrating with Mallory (great, great idea), whilst simultaneously invoking the three male characters. I like the My Three Seans concept, mostly, I guess, because I thought of it.

I must say I'm very disappointed that you cannot see your way to accepting SL's idea of paradise: a menage a trois in green Ireland. People see a three-way and immediately think there has to be a problem. But let's remember when DYS was made, right in the middle of the free love era. David Crosby even wrote a song on this subject. And Mallory may have been idealizing the memory anyway. Let's not forget, also, that there were plenty of friendship stories in the Middle Ages where men essentially shared a woman, or where a man would give up a woman for the sake of his male friend (something of this survives into Shakespeare's Two Noble Kinsman). Leone, the foremost filmmaker of male heterosexual friendship, would have certainly been partial to this theme.

How, then, to explain Mallory's look of unhappiness at the end of the long flashback? Well, I think it's hard to impute anything to the look he gives (I'm not even sure he's displaying unhappiness, just fatigue at having to hold a smile for so long in slo-mo), but even granting that unhappiness, an alternative interpretation occurs: we are at the point where Mallory is coming out of the flashback (as the distorting music signals). Mallory knows that the beautiful dream must give way to his death; might it not be possible for him to project this disappointment into the flashback?


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: BeauButabi on July 30, 2006, 06:20:21 PM
I'm going with Dave Jenkins on this. I never liked the whole "they were having an affair" idea. I like much better the "menage a trois" idea, and with Sean dying he's just trying to think of happier times, and any frown that comes over his face is either Coburn's face getting tired for holding that big grin (never thought up that explanation before DJ suggested it), or that Sean's starting to come out of the flashback because he's about to die.

Fun to read your comments Sucker!


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: Sucker on July 31, 2006, 01:11:31 PM
Peacemaker.
I'm working on the photos. The pub is just a few miles downtown from me so, hopefully, soon.

Dave and Beau.
Nothing would please me more than to agree a menage-a-trois and, indeed, for many years I more or less believed this to be most likely the case. Apart from the cinema presentations I saw when it was first released  ALL of which included a final flashback of some sort, over the years the countless videos and TV viewings either had no final flashback at all, at all or it was cut short. However, having seen the full version again in recent times (the most recent being the showing at the London NFT last week) I believe that the final key to understanding it for me is Morricone's  (the genius) music in that final flashback.
All is sweet and honey (violins, Edda's voice singing Sean, Sean, etc) while Sean kisses the girl. Then, as I mentioned in my first post, the mood suddenly changes and, apart from Sean's initial puzzled look around at Warbeck, the music mood change hits me straight between the eyes and ears. If there was nothing else there only sweet and honey the violins and Edda would just have continued until the end of the flashback. This, to me, is the "sucker" punch in the movie and is what makes the whole story so additionally poignant.
Just one other point. The "Revolution/Confusion" scene in the cafe. Watch Sean's expression when he says, "The man who knows what he wants stands a good chance o' gettin' it". At first I thought that was just a throwaway line but Leone never puts anything in that is unimportant.  I'm beginning to think that he is referring to Warbeck here - he is possibly stating here how Warbeck used the confusion of the revolution in Ireland to "get what he wants", the girl.
Now, of course, I am not claiming that my interpretations are correct and have read and taken in everything that has been posted on this great website. I can only give my conclusions based on what I see and hear and much as I would have liked the "menage" I can't go with it based on the above evidence.


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: The Peacemaker on July 31, 2006, 01:19:46 PM
Peacemaker.
I'm working on the photos. The pub is just a few miles downtown from me so, hopefully, soon.

Dave and Beau.
Nothing would please me more than to agree a menage-a-trois and, indeed, for many years I more or less believed this to be most likely the case. Apart from the cinema presentations I saw when it was first released  ALL of which included a final flashback of some sort, over the years the countless videos and TV viewings either had no final flashback at all, at all or it was cut short. However, having seen the full version again in recent times (the most recent being the showing at the London NFT last week) I believe that the final key to understanding it for me is Morricone's  (the genius) music in that final flashback.
All is sweet and honey (violins, Edda's voice singing Sean, Sean, etc) while Sean kisses the girl. Then, as I mentioned in my first post, the mood suddenly changes and, apart from Sean's initial puzzled look around at Warbeck, the music mood change hits me straight between the eyes and ears. If there was nothing else there only sweet and honey the violins and Edda would just have continued until the end of the flashback. This, to me, is the "sucker" punch in the movie and is what makes the whole story so additionally poignant.
Just one other point. The "Revolution/Confusion" scene in the cafe. Watch Sean's expression when he says, "The man who knows what he wants stands a good chance o' gettin' it". At first I thought that was just a throwaway line but Leone never puts anything in that is unimportant.  I'm beginning to think that he is referring to Warbeck here - he is possibly stating here how Warbeck used the confusion of the revolution in Ireland to "get what he wants", the girl.
Now, of course, I am not claiming that my interpretations are correct and have read and taken in everything that has been posted on this great website. I can only give my conclusions based on what I see and hear and much as I would have liked the "menage" I can't go with it based on the above evidence.

Hey Sucker, your interpretation might be different when I tell you this. There are two versions of the final flashback song. There's version 1 that I really like:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews23/a%20sergio%20leone%20a%20fistful%20of%20dynamite/A%20Fistful%20of%20Dynamite%20Old%20Comparison%202.mp3

And there's the new version ( version 2 ) which is still good but inferior to the original:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews23/a%20sergio%20leone%20a%20fistful%20of%20dynamite/A%20Fistful%20of%20Dynamite%20SE%20Comparison%202.mp3


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: BeauButabi on July 31, 2006, 02:38:32 PM
Peacemaker.
I'm working on the photos. The pub is just a few miles downtown from me so, hopefully, soon.

Dave and Beau.
Nothing would please me more than to agree a menage-a-trois and, indeed, for many years I more or less believed this to be most likely the case. Apart from the cinema presentations I saw when it was first released  ALL of which included a final flashback of some sort, over the years the countless videos and TV viewings either had no final flashback at all, at all or it was cut short. However, having seen the full version again in recent times (the most recent being the showing at the London NFT last week) I believe that the final key to understanding it for me is Morricone's  (the genius) music in that final flashback.
All is sweet and honey (violins, Edda's voice singing Sean, Sean, etc) while Sean kisses the girl. Then, as I mentioned in my first post, the mood suddenly changes and, apart from Sean's initial puzzled look around at Warbeck, the music mood change hits me straight between the eyes and ears. If there was nothing else there only sweet and honey the violins and Edda would just have continued until the end of the flashback. This, to me, is the "sucker" punch in the movie and is what makes the whole story so additionally poignant.
Just one other point. The "Revolution/Confusion" scene in the cafe. Watch Sean's expression when he says, "The man who knows what he wants stands a good chance o' gettin' it". At first I thought that was just a throwaway line but Leone never puts anything in that is unimportant.  I'm beginning to think that he is referring to Warbeck here - he is possibly stating here how Warbeck used the confusion of the revolution in Ireland to "get what he wants", the girl.
Now, of course, I am not claiming that my interpretations are correct and have read and taken in everything that has been posted on this great website. I can only give my conclusions based on what I see and hear and much as I would have liked the "menage" I can't go with it based on the above evidence.
All interesting stuff there, Sucker. I'll keep all this in mind the next time I watch the movie. Also, I never felt that there's a right or wrong when it comes to these things in films, it's all just how you interpret it. :)


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: Sucker on July 31, 2006, 02:51:08 PM
Peacemaker.

That flashback is not the final one - that's the one with Villega on the steam engine. I'm talking about the one when Sean is dying and Juan has "gone to get dee help".


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: The Peacemaker on July 31, 2006, 03:03:23 PM
Peacemaker.

That flashback is not the final one - that's the one with Villega on the steam engine. I'm talking about the one when Sean is dying and Juan has "gone to get dee help".

Sorry, haven't seen the movie in 2 years.


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: Juan Miranda on July 31, 2006, 05:56:02 PM
Let me give you a simple example of a husband arriving home yet again in a drunken state. His long-suffering wife would be heard to say, "Oh, Sean, Sean, Sean, what am I to do with you at all, at all".

While very persuasive when debating with an English speaking audience, this is surely irrelevant when dealing with Leone. Don't forget he was a man who was convinced the phrase "Duck you sucker" was on every English speakers lips, never mind Morricone, who couldn't speak a word of that language.

Unfortunatly, the definitive chance for the board to finally clear this "Who is Sean" niggle up once and for all was lost when Morricone cancelled his NFT appearence in London a couple of weeks ago.  :(


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: SeanSeanSean on July 31, 2006, 06:08:23 PM
Peacemaker.

That flashback is not the final one - that's the one with Villega on the steam engine. I'm talking about the one when Sean is dying and Juan has "gone to get dee help".
Your right, the final scene in some versions of the film is when the 3 are running in the field/garden and Coburn is about to kiss the girl up upon the tree...then he blows up!


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: SeanSeanSean on July 31, 2006, 06:10:45 PM
Hey Sucker, your interpretation might be different when I tell you this. There are two versions of the final flashback song. There's version 1 that I really like:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews23/a%20sergio%20leone%20a%20fistful%20of%20dynamite/A%20Fistful%20of%20Dynamite%20Old%20Comparison%202.mp3

And there's the new version ( version 2 ) which is still good but inferior to the original:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews23/a%20sergio%20leone%20a%20fistful%20of%20dynamite/A%20Fistful%20of%20Dynamite%20SE%20Comparison%202.mp3
Great links PeaceMaker! Do you have more to share?


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: Sucker on August 01, 2006, 03:33:24 AM
Your right, the final scene in some versions of the film is when the 3 are running in the field/garden and Coburn is about to kiss the girl up upon the tree...then he blows up!


In case anyone is not aware, the final flashback in the full version does not end when Sean is about to kiss the girl at the tree. It goes on and on and it is during this extended scene that the events unfold as previously described until, eventually, he blows up.

Juan Miranda - very good point you make.


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: The Firecracker on August 01, 2006, 03:34:32 AM

In case anyone is not aware, the final flashback in the full version does not end when Sean is about to kiss the girl at the tree. It goes on and on and it is during this extended scene that the events unfold as previously described until, eventually, he blows up.




yes we know. that scene was restored for special edition version.


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 01, 2006, 11:56:17 AM
Great links PeaceMaker! Do you have more to share?

Sorry SeanSeanSean  ( I couldn't resist that  ;) ) but I got that from Dave Jenkins thread about comparing the two DVDs. There is no more music on that site.

I do have the CD but I don't know how I can put that here.     


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: dave jenkins on August 01, 2006, 03:13:05 PM
Peacemaker raises a vital question. Since we know that the current SE of the film contains a soundtrack of dubious provenance, how are we to know that the music we are hearing in the final flashback is correct?


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: dave jenkins on August 01, 2006, 03:19:33 PM
While very persuasive when debating with an English speaking audience, this is surely irrelevant when dealing with Leone. Don't forget he was a man who was convinced the phrase "Duck you sucker" was on every English speakers lips, never mind Morricone, who couldn't speak a word of that language.
Surely the relevant issue here is how well Carla Leone understands English, as they are her lyrics. Maybe even more to the point: what is her understanding of how a woman remonstrates with her man?


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 01, 2006, 03:22:42 PM
Surely the relevant issue here is how well Carla Leone understands English, as they are her lyrics.

That is true. The original chants instead of Sean, Sean, Sean were suppose to be Wah, Wah, Wah until Carla suggested Sean instead of Wah.


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: Sucker on August 01, 2006, 05:50:29 PM
Peacemaker.
As promised I've uploaded just a couple of photo comparisons to keep you going for the moment. 
And for those who still believe Sergio Leone is the ticket-seller I hasten to add that the reflection in the mirror is not Sergio's ghost  ;D

If you're ever in Dublin you'll get a friendly welcome in Toners. It's old-world maybe but well worth a visit. There is a picture on the wall of Sergio during shooting but the caption describes the film as Duck You Sucker/A Fistful of Dollars!!!

http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m200/paddytheirishman/?sc=6



Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: geoman-1 on August 01, 2006, 07:50:02 PM
Great shots Sucker! Thanks so much  :D


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: The Firecracker on August 02, 2006, 12:05:47 AM
By God! Everything is the same! Thank the Lord for you Sucker!



Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 02, 2006, 11:41:51 AM
Peacemaker.
As promised I've uploaded just a couple of photo comparisons to keep you going for the moment. 
And for those who still believe Sergio Leone is the ticket-seller I hasten to add that the reflection in the mirror is not Sergio's ghost  ;D

If you're ever in Dublin you'll get a friendly welcome in Toners. It's old-world maybe but well worth a visit. There is a picture on the wall of Sergio during shooting but the caption describes the film as Duck You Sucker/A Fistful of Dollars!!!

http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m200/paddytheirishman/?sc=6



Thanks for the photos Sucker!

Awesome locations, Howth Castle is beautiful.


Title: Re: An Irishmans view AND photos
Post by: Sucker on August 07, 2006, 03:32:01 PM
At last I got all the Irish locations (Thanks, Geoman - that tree was it - just up from the castle).

I've uploaded all the pics now including directions on Google Earth for when you all come over to see for yourselves :)

http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m200/paddytheirishman/?sc=6

I noticed that Prof. Frayling got the locations wrong also in his SL book. I suppose he must have assumed they were in Co. Wicklow because almost every movie shot in this country films there at least in part.

Next stop Almeria!!!! - maybe.


Title: Re: An Irishmans view AND photos
Post by: Juan Miranda on August 07, 2006, 05:57:11 PM
I noticed that Prof. Frayling got the locations wrong also in his SL book.
Yes, what an idiot. Perhaps he should go and kill himself from the shame?


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: cigar joe on August 07, 2006, 08:51:50 PM
Quote
Yes, what an idiot. Perhaps he should go and kill himself from the shame?


now now don't be that hard on him, its virtually impossible to make corrections after its in print.


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 07, 2006, 08:53:48 PM


now now don't be that hard on him, its virtually impossible to make corrections after its in print.

Yes, even though frayling's book has some type errors I overlook that. Nobody's perfect.


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: Sucker on August 08, 2006, 03:50:21 AM
Yes, even though frayling's book has some type errors I overlook that. Nobody's perfect.

Absolutely. It is inevitable that some errors would appear in a work of this magnitude and I hope I didn't come across as critiscising him/it in correcting a small (and very understandable) error. Until I found out to the contrary I also had a feeling that Co. Wicklow was the most likely location.

The book is fascinating and, indeed, I find myself coming back to it time and again.


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: dave jenkins on August 08, 2006, 09:26:21 AM


now now don't be that hard on him, its virtually impossible to make corrections after its in print.
He's still making the errors in his audio commentaries, years after his book went to press. The guy never learns.

That having been said, I wonder why Frayling is always such a hot-button topic for Juan Miranda. Any comment, Juan?


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: Juan Miranda on August 08, 2006, 09:59:29 AM
Indeed Dave. When I first joined the board Sir Chris was being slagged off something rotten on a lot of threads. Some people were almost rabidly angry over errors he had made, claiming they could write better books on Leone etc.

I've heard Sir Chris lecture, and have met him (just the once) and he is a really nice guy. For some 20 years he ploughed a lonely furrow, championing a number of then despised genres. He's done more to promote recognition for Leone as an artist in the English language than anyone else. Therefor I get a bit tired of people always having a go at him, hence my sarcastic remark previously. Yeah he makes mistakes (he made a howler in the Guardian recently, in an artical about British horror films), but who doesn't?


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: Leonardo on August 08, 2006, 02:00:12 PM
Indeed Dave. When I first joined the board Sir Chris was being slagged off something rotten on a lot of threads. Some people were almost rabidly angry over errors he had made, claiming they could write better books on Leone etc.

I've heard Sir Chris lecture, and have met him (just the once) and he is a really nice guy. For some 20 years he ploughed a lonely furrow, championing a number of then despised genres. He's done more to promote recognition for Leone as an artist in the English language than anyone else. Therefor I get a bit tired of people always having a go at him, hence my sarcastic remark previously. Yeah he makes mistakes (he made a howler in the Guardian recently, in an artical about British horror films), but who doesn't?
Juan Miranda, you read my mind! I'm with you on this one. As an italian, I hate to admit that the best book written on Leone was the work of an englishman..!
I have never met Frayling unfortunately, but if I ever do, I will thank him profusely for his book and for what he did for Leone and still is doing (the Los Angeles exhibition for instance is his baby).
Of course there are small errors in his book, but think about all the useful information we got and all the anecdotes! Also remember that his love for Leone dates back to a time where critics still despised him and indeed, as Juan Miranda wonderfully puts it, he ploughed a lonely furrow for many years!
So please, stop picking on Sir Chris and let's hope that he will continue on this path and bring us more stuff on Leone!!!


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: The Firecracker on August 08, 2006, 04:06:32 PM


I've heard Sir Chris lecture, and have met him (just the once) and he is a really nice guy. For some 20 years he ploughed a lonely furrow, championing a number of then despised genres. He's done more to promote recognition for Leone as an artist in the English language than anyone else. Therefor I get a bit tired of people always having a go at him, hence my sarcastic remark previously. Yeah he makes mistakes (he made a howler in the Guardian recently, in an artical about British horror films), but who doesn't?



here here! I to am tired of Sir Frayling getting insulted over minor (and sometimes not so minor) mistakes.
he aint no Thomas Weisser who makes CONSTANT lies about a particular genre.


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 08, 2006, 04:21:36 PM


here here! I to am tired of Sir Frayling getting insulted over minor (and sometimes not so minor) mistakes.
he aint no Thomas Weisser who makes CONSTANT lies about a particular genre.

Frayling makes simple mistakes, Weisser just makesup sh*t.   ;D


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: dave jenkins on August 10, 2006, 08:45:06 AM
But still, Frayling makes a lot of simple mistakes. After we observe so many, his credibility begins to suffer. If he gets so many details wrong, how do we know he's right about larger things? We can spot check the things we know from other sources, but there are a lot of things we "know" only because of Frayling. I used to think that at least he was at least reliable about shooting locations, but not anymore....


Title: Re: An Irishmans view
Post by: The Firecracker on August 10, 2006, 03:53:26 PM
But still, Frayling makes a lot of simple mistakes. After we observe so many, his credibility begins to suffer. If he gets so many details wrong, how do we know he's right about larger things? We can spot check the things we know from other sources, but there are a lot of things we "know" only because of Frayling. I used to think that at least he was at least reliable about shooting locations, but not anymore....


still nothing to chastise or insult the man over.  He only gets his "false" info from others.