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Films of Sergio Leone => Other Films => Topic started by: The Peacemaker on August 12, 2006, 02:17:49 PM



Title: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 12, 2006, 02:17:49 PM
Just telling everyone who has TCM that Winchester '73 goes on in another 20 minutes. Anyone seen it before? It's a great western.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: Silenzio on August 12, 2006, 03:36:53 PM
I saw it another time when it was on TCM. It really is great, Peace is not kidding.

And, if you need more incentive, it has Jimmy Stewart. I love Jimmy, especially in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance and Vertigo.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: noodles_leone on August 12, 2006, 03:58:35 PM
Vertigo... a real masterpiece. Best movie by Hitchcock IMO, which means that is is REALLY a huge movie :)


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: Silenzio on August 12, 2006, 04:19:05 PM
Vertigo... a real masterpiece. Best movie by Hitchcock IMO, which means that is is REALLY a huge movie :)

I know, man! It's awesome. It and North by Northwest are my favorite Hitchcocks.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: Leone Admirer on August 12, 2006, 04:35:51 PM
I'm a huge fan of Jimmy also. Vertigo is a true masterpiece, Winchester 73 is a great film (and the transfer on the Universal DVD ain't too bad either). Anyone thinking of getting the Jimmy Stewart Signature Collection boxset, news is that the Picture on the excellent Naked Spur isn't too hot.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: noodles_leone on August 12, 2006, 04:37:29 PM
I know, man! It's awesome. It and North by Northwest are my favorite Hitchcocks.

North by Northwest could have reached the same level as vertigo if only the ending was as good as the rest of the movie... But I don't really like the final sequence in the montains... The rest of the movie is, of course, just PERFFECT :)


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: Tim on August 12, 2006, 06:23:45 PM
  I'd seen bits and pieces of Winchester '73 on AMC before, but today was the first time I caught the whole movie.  I was VERY impressed.  Stewart was excellent as always.  And I was surprised to see three young faces, Rock Hudson, Tony Curtis, and James Best (briefly).

  This qualifies as a western with some of the coolest character names; Lin McAdams, Waco Johnny Dean, Dutch Henry Brown, High Spade, Latigo.  How can you not love a movie with such cool names?


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 12, 2006, 06:29:08 PM
 
  This qualifies as a western with some of the coolest character names; Lin McAdams, Waco Johnny Dean, Dutch Henry Brown, High Spade, Latigo.  How can you not love a movie with such cool names?

Exactly! That's what I thought. Dutch Henry Brown...that name is so freakin' cool! And his character is one of the coolest bad guys in a western. He's really evil, he's got a whole operation going with a lot of people, and he just looks like a bad guy.

And the part near the end where jimmy Stewart was willing to break Waco's neck to find out where his brother is was so awesome!


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: Tim on August 12, 2006, 06:31:40 PM
  I thought from the time Lin and High Spade entered the saloon to the end was one of the better western endings I've seen in awhile.  And Dutch Henry was such a good bad guy.  You just loved to hate him.  And did that saloon look like the one early in Vera Cruz, or was it just me?

  Also good to see JW regular Chuck Roberson as Long Tom, one of Dutch's men, in a very early role.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: Tim on August 12, 2006, 06:46:01 PM
  Check out this thread from imdb about McAdam's Winchester being cursed.  I didn't think of it that way while watching, but it makes perfect sense now that I think about it.   :)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043137/board/thread/41150290?d=41150290#41150290


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 12, 2006, 06:48:18 PM
  Check out this thread from imdb about McAdam's Winchester being cursed.  I didn't think of it that way while watching, but it makes perfect sense now that I think about it.   :)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043137/board/thread/41150290?d=41150290#41150290

Wow...I never saw it that way either.

It makes a lot of sense, though.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: Silenzio on August 13, 2006, 03:17:12 PM
North by Northwest could have reached the same level as vertigo if only the ending was as good as the rest of the movie... But I don't really like the final sequence in the montains... The rest of the movie is, of course, just PERFFECT :)

Yeah. Maybe it would've been better if we was actually able to film on Mount Rushmore instead of on a set. But I doubt that would've made TOO much of a difference.

Anyways, what do you think about Psycho? I thought it was pretty darn good.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: Groggy on August 13, 2006, 03:55:47 PM
This is one of those classic movies that I liked but wasn't impressed by.  If you ask me to watch an Anthony Mann Western, I'll take "The Naked Spur" any day.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: Leone Admirer on August 13, 2006, 04:09:00 PM
I own an original poster for the Mann western The Far Country.  :)


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: noodles_leone on August 13, 2006, 04:34:17 PM
Yeah. Maybe it would've been better if we was actually able to film on Mount Rushmore instead of on a set. But I doubt that would've made TOO much of a difference.

Anyways, what do you think about Psycho? I thought it was pretty darn good.

Well, that was damn good, that was as good as you can do with an "horror movie" i think... couldn't have been better. everything is perfect. the only reason why it doesn't reach vertigo and north by nrothwest for me is that it IS an horror movie... Not as entertaining as North by northwest, not as amibiguous as vertigo... Well, it is only because i am not fond of this kind of movies...  However, even without talking of the famosu scenes of this movie, i'll never forget the girl at the begining, driving in the night, with this music...


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 13, 2006, 04:42:07 PM
When it comes to the Stewart/Mann westerns, I'll take The Man from Laramie.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: Leone Admirer on August 13, 2006, 04:46:19 PM
Another great Mann western, I'll have to go through my collection and see how many of them I own.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 13, 2006, 04:48:45 PM
Another great Mann western, I'll have to go through my collection and see how many of them I own.

You saw Winchester '73 right?

I take that as my second favorite...and Bend of the River as my third.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: Leone Admirer on August 13, 2006, 04:53:46 PM
Oh yeah, I own Winchester, Bend Of The River, The Far Country and The Man From Laramie


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 13, 2006, 04:55:49 PM
Oh yeah, I own Winchester, Bend Of The River, The Far Country and The Man From Laramie

I only saw parts of The Far Country. I never took the time to sit down and watch it all the way through. But I've seen all the other Stewart/Mann westerns.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: titoli on August 14, 2006, 06:23:53 PM
Got me the dvd and watched it for the 3d time (1st in english). If there is a single element which doesn't work with this flick I wasn't able to spot it. The storyline is simple but not trivial, the single incidents got you fairly hooked. This is a choral movie, with no lead character (if you don't count the rifle) and every single actor is perfect. But Dan Dureya and Shelley Winters (and actress who, though very competent, I could never stand on screen because of her ugliness) are memorable: their repartees are the best things of the movie. As everyone knows I can't stand Indians in westerns. Still here their presence is faultless, probably because it is short. And well before the so-called revisionist movies here the chief tells it all about the way the white men treat them in a few sentencens. They are treated, I'd say, fairly. And a western which has Indians and women and carries them as no burden must be something special.

I'll watch the movie again soon because of the comment of James Stewart: a circumstance that by itself should grant the buying oi it.




Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: titoli on August 14, 2006, 06:27:06 PM
The trailer has at least a different angle of a scene, that in the barroom with Dureya and Stewart.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: cigar joe on August 14, 2006, 09:41:05 PM
The only fault I found with this film is the portrayal of Wyatt Earp, they have miscast him as a grandfatherly type when in actuality in 1873,  he would have been quite young. The gunfight at the OK Corral in Tombstone wasn't until 1881.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: titoli on August 15, 2006, 02:55:56 AM
This is one of those cases one can say:"Blessed ignorance"! Had I even remembered the exact dates, I would have liked anyway Geer's portrayal of him, apparently so unharmful and with that strange voice.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: dave jenkins on August 15, 2006, 09:14:54 AM
Shelley Winters (and actress who, though very competent, I could never stand on screen because of her ugliness)
Night of the Hunter?

Anyway, I don't disagree with you about Winchester '73. Great cast (did you notice Rock Hudson and Tony Curtis in amongst the rest?), great story, in fact, an epic quest with Excalibur turned into a rifle. Well-paced, too: things just keep moving along.

I particularly enjoy Stephen McNally's performance, who usually plays such a nice guy.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: Tim on August 15, 2006, 10:32:09 AM
Quote
The only fault I found with this film is the portrayal of Wyatt Earp, they have miscast him as a grandfatherly type when in actuality in 1873,  he would have been quite young. The gunfight at the OK Corral in Tombstone wasn't until 1881.

  It feels like the only reason this characterization was used was for that one scene, just for that surprise that Wyatt Earp is this friendly, older man who can't even find his badge.  I was genuinely surprised just because I've got a very different mental picture/idea of what Earp was like.  Other than this miscasting, great movie


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: titoli on August 15, 2006, 10:48:04 AM
Dear DJ, we had already ample proof that our tastes in women widely differ. But Shelley Winters! Come on, man! She's an impeccable actress, I'd say one of the best: but I wouldn't have touched her with a 12 ft. cane!
In W73 she's still vaguely femalish, though unattractive. In the following years she was going to be  permanently entrenched this side of puke.

(http://www.briansdriveintheater.com/westerns/scottbrady/scottbrady4.jpg)





Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: dave jenkins on August 15, 2006, 11:00:45 AM
Dear DJ, we had already ample proof that our tastes in women widely differ. But Shelley Winters! Come on, man! She's an impeccable actress, I'd say one of the best: but I wouldn't have touched her with a 12 ft. cane!
In W73 she's still vaguely femalish, though unattractive. In the following years she was going to be  permanently entrenched this side of puke.

(http://www.briansdriveintheater.com/westerns/scottbrady/scottbrady4.jpg)




Actually, I'll go for just about anything in a skirt, but that's neither here nor there. No, I don't particularly fancy Ms. Winters, I was responding to your comment about not being able to stand her on screen in other cases. But in Night of the Hunter she is perfectly cast. I can't imagine any other actress working so well in the part (and she wasn't yet at her hideously ugly stage (just slightly ugly)).


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: titoli on August 15, 2006, 11:29:11 AM
I can't remember her at all in the Laughton's movie. Actually I didn't rememeber her even in W73. As an actress, I confirm, she's impeccable. The problem is I don't fancy watching her on the screen, especially when playing the part of a supposedly attractive, even moderately, woman. That's all.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: dave jenkins on August 16, 2006, 09:16:31 AM
I can't remember her at all in the Laughton's movie.
Then you need to watch it again. Shelley Winters under water is an amazing image.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: Tim on August 16, 2006, 10:39:04 AM
Quote
Then you need to watch it again. Shelley Winters under water is an amazing image.

  Are we talking about Poseidon Adventure?  I'll qualify that scene as interesting to watch.  Team player, that Shelley Winters, taking one for the team.   ;D


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: dave jenkins on August 16, 2006, 11:34:54 AM
Nah, I'm talking about Night of the Hunter, and the impecable camera work by Stanley Cortez.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: Groggy on August 16, 2006, 04:31:01 PM
Let me be fastidiously honest here:

I have only seen three of Mann's films, so I can't say I'm an expert on him.  But I haven't really been impressed with any of them.

"Winchester '73" and "The Tin Star" were decent films that I've only been able to watch once or twice, they have some interesting elements but don't add up to a great deal.  Other than the star power of James Stewart in the former and the guy in my avatar in the latter, there's no reason I think to watch them repeatedly.

"The Naked Spur" was somewhat better but was too preachy IMO.  Robert Ryan's performance - well, I dunno.  I think he's a little too over-the-top at times, but overall he's very good.  I've never really cared much for Janet Leigh so I can't say I was crazy to see her here.

I don't have any specific complaints about any of these films, they just rub me the wrong way.  However, I'll keep an eye out for "The Man From Laramie" and "Bend of the River".


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: boardwalk_angel on August 17, 2006, 05:19:10 AM

I have only seen three of Mann's films,  .  However, I'll keep an eye out for "The Man From Laramie" and "Bend of the River".

One of my favorite Mann-Stewart (& Pie, of course) Westerns...& a very undeservedly underrated one at that...is "The  Far Country (1955).
Really worth watching..w/ a very good cast..including Walter Brennan..& John McIntyre...spectacular scenery...Highly recommended.
Be watchiing as it plays on TCM---> Aug 25, 2:45PM


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: dave jenkins on August 17, 2006, 08:26:38 AM
Let me be fastidiously honest here:

I have only seen three of Mann's films, so I can't say I'm an expert on him.  But I haven't really been impressed with any of them.
Once again, Groggy, I see our tastes are amazingly close. However, I like Winchester '73 a lot, mostly because it is highly episodic and keeps things moving around. It's like 10 Westerns in one.

I've seen The Naked Spur only once. I was hoping to re-visit it on the new DVD release, but evidently the transfer of the non-restored image leaves a lot to be desired, so I guess I'll wait. Anyway, I did not like the film when I saw it, for the very reasons you cite. I also am annoyed by single-situation films; that's the kind of thing I can get on TV.

The Man From Laramie is a bust, predictable and predictably stupid. Bend of the River, on the other hand, has much to recommend it. Especially good is the friendship-rivalry between Stewart and Arthur Kennedy; both characters have similar backgrounds, and it is interesting, when presented with similar choices, to see the different ways they react. The film makes one mistake, however: after Kennedy betrays Stewart, the action stays with Kennedy. It would have been much, much better to stay with Stewart. After all, he's been left to die on Mt. Hood by Kennedy; it is quite a challenge for Stewart to come back from such a defeat and enact his revenge, and we should have been treated to every excruciating detail of the trial.

The Far Country has always left me (heh, heh) cold. I was disappointed by Man of the West, but I'd very much like to see it again. My expectations may have been too high, and perhaps I'll be able to appreciate it better the second time.

Mann's best Western is probably El Cid, which, although set in 10th Century Spain, is a classic of the genre.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: Leone Admirer on August 17, 2006, 10:37:25 AM
The only fault I found with this film is the portrayal of Wyatt Earp, they have miscast him as a grandfatherly type when in actuality in 1873,  he would have been quite young. The gunfight at the OK Corral in Tombstone wasn't until 1881.

I find the portayal of Earp by Stewart in Cheyanne Autumn a little off also. I love Stewart but it's just how I don't imagine Earp to have been.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: Leone Admirer on August 17, 2006, 10:47:56 AM

I've seen The Naked Spur only once. I was hoping to re-visit it on the new DVD release, but evidently the transfer of the non-restored image leaves a lot to be desired, so I guess I'll wait. Anyway, I did not like the film when I saw it, for the very reasons you cite. I also am annoyed by single-situation films; that's the kind of thing I can get on TV.


I'm getting the Jimmy Stewart set for my birthday, I'll happily double double dip for another better edition of Naked Spur if it comes along (HD me thinks)


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 17, 2006, 04:40:55 PM
I'm getting the Jimmy Stewart set for my birthday, I'll happily double double dip for another better edition of Naked Spur if it comes along (HD me thinks)

I guess I'm the only one around here who didn't like The Naked Spur.   ;D

It was...okay. But I think, like Groggy said earlier, it's way too preachy. It wasn't bad though. The scene when Stewart wakes up screaming was pretty cool.

Hey LA, did you see all the Stewart/Mann collaborations? The only one I didn't see is The Far Country ( sorry Boardwalk Angel  ;D ).


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: Leone Admirer on August 17, 2006, 04:53:43 PM
Yep, I own all the Stewart - Mann westerns, also own an original daybill (poster) For The Far Country which has a wonderful painted likeness of Stewart. 


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 17, 2006, 04:57:15 PM
Yep, I own all the Stewart - Mann westerns, also own an original daybill (poster) For The Far Country which has a wonderful painted likeness of Stewart. 

I still can't decide if I like Winchester '73 or The Man from Laramie more.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: Leone Admirer on August 17, 2006, 05:03:25 PM
I'm going for Winchester, though I do really like Laramie. Have you tried 7 men? The Boetticher western?


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 17, 2006, 05:12:19 PM
I'm going for Winchester, though I do really like Laramie. Have you tried 7 men? The Boetticher western?

7 Men? Never heard of it. I must look out for it.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: Leone Admirer on August 17, 2006, 05:16:00 PM
Well the full title is 7 men from now and it stars Randolph Scott and Lee Marvin, a wonderful film


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 17, 2006, 05:17:13 PM
Well the full title is 7 men from now and it stars Randolph Scott and Lee Marvin, a wonderful film

Oh yeah! I saw that DVD cover.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: Tim on August 18, 2006, 02:02:08 PM
  Seven Men from Now was really good.  Randolph Scott is perfectly cast, and Lee Marvin is great in a role where you never really know which side he's on.  Definitely worth a watch.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 18, 2006, 02:03:48 PM
  Seven Men from Now was really good.  Randolph Scott is perfectly cast, and Lee Marvin is great in a role where you never really know which side he's on.  Definitely worth a watch.

I'll check it out if I ever get the chance.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on June 07, 2013, 06:22:08 PM
wow so nobody has posted here since 2006!

I just saw the movie on TCM; it was my second viewing. and my opinion is the same as the first time: i really don't agree with all the fuss about this being a great Western. Yeah, maybe it was revolutionary in its time for its adult themes or whatever, but for me this is a 7/10.

Stewart delivers a terrific performance. As always.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: dave jenkins on June 08, 2013, 08:25:11 AM
I like it because the story develops, it's not a single situation strung out over 90 minutes. I mean, by the time Dan Duryea shows up, the film is nearly two thirds over.


Title: Re: Winchester '73 (1950)
Post by: Dust Devil on November 24, 2016, 08:24:54 AM
This is a good W, albeit somewhat short of excellent. The episodic nature however, starts weighting by the time of the final act. They kinda try to push forth both the characters and the twists til the very end, which doesn't quite do it for me. It is overall good, but for me it's not great as its reputation implies. I like all the performances, Geer included.


7.7/10