Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Other Films => Topic started by: titoli on August 13, 2006, 02:26:35 PM



Title: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: titoli on August 13, 2006, 02:26:35 PM
What do you think of it, folks? As my previous experiences with Helmann were far from exalting (I mean The Shooting and Ride in the Whirlwind) I wouldn't have tried this one were in not that it had all the premises of a SW, though it isn't.
I can't say is a masterpiece but, apart from two or three moments of stasis, it's a film that keeps you interested in the fate of the characters. Which is not a mean feat.
The thing that amazed me most was to discover how good Testi was.
Much talk it is made of Oates, who is good but not very.
I don't know what Jenny Agutter has done apart rom this movie, but there are some actresses in this film who are more attractive than her. Still there's a great fuss about her nude scenes: don't know why. Neither I don't know why the dvd copy in english seems to be edited of the nude scenes and in pan & scan.  I recorded the movie three days ago from an italian national channel and the master was letterboxed, with all the nudes there. Though the italian version is only 92' minutes long.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 13, 2006, 02:57:59 PM
What do you think of it, folks? As my previous experiences with Helmann were far from exalting (I mean The Shooting and Ride in the Whirlwind) I wouldn't have tried this one were in not that it had all the premises of a SW, though it isn't.
I can't say is a masterpiece but, apart from two or three moments of stasis, it's a film that keeps you interested in the fate of the characters. Which is not a mean feat.
The thing that amazed me most was to discover how good Testi was.
Much talk it is made of Oates, who is good but not very.
I don't know what Jenny Agutter has done apart rom this movie, but there are some actresses in this film who are more attractive than her. Still there's a great fuss about her nude scenes: don't know why. Neither I don't know why the dvd copy in english seems to be edited of the nude scenes and in pan & scan.  I recorded the movie three days ago from an italian national channel and the master was letterboxed, with all the nudes there. Though the italian version is only 92' minutes long.

I thought this movie was the WORST western I've even seen in my life. It was horrible!


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: The Firecracker on August 14, 2006, 12:00:47 AM
I thought this movie was the WORST western I've even seen in my life. It was horrible!


hardly the worst western ever.
But it is pretty bad.

however (as Titoli mentions) it does keep things interesting once Oates's wife leaves him for dead...

hey did anybody notice in the last gunfight when somebody is shot the blood is animated?
I guess they couldnt afford squibs so they decided to paint in the blood later on the film. That was pretty interesting to me because I had never seen that before.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 14, 2006, 12:02:52 AM

hardly the worst western ever.

You're right, I take back my last comment. I've seen some really bad ones now that I think about it. But it's deinitely ONE of the worst.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: titoli on August 14, 2006, 01:54:08 AM
Apparntly Agutter made not an impression on both of you. So we're three. At IMDB they have a different view. I think the english contributors of the board could shed some light on this circumstance.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: cigar joe on August 14, 2006, 11:24:44 AM
Well agutter was sort of famous for shucking her clothes, check out Walkabout. The only other film I remember her in was Logan's Run with Michael York.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: The Firecracker on August 14, 2006, 12:41:18 PM
Apparntly Agutter made not an impression on both of you. So we're three. At IMDB they have a different view. I think the english contributors of the board could shed some light on this circumstance.


well Titoli that is hard to say because I have the awful pan & can cut version. so just before she sheds her clothes it cuts away.
I have seen the missing scenes on the internet elsewhere and I think she has a pretty much petite body. But she is very cute.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: cigar joe on August 14, 2006, 02:27:19 PM
She is not voluptous but yes petite. 8)


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: The Firecracker on August 14, 2006, 02:35:59 PM
She is not voluptous but yes petite. 8)

she has a very mousy face that I thought was adorable.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 14, 2006, 02:42:41 PM
she has a very mousy face that I thought was adorable.

I didn't find her that attractive.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: cigar joe on August 14, 2006, 05:07:59 PM
Agutter, Helen Mirren, and Melanie Griffiths are all free spirits who seen to have no problem with shucking off all their clothes for full frontal at an early point in their careers, Mirren is recently still active.  8)

Check out a very young Mirren in 1969's  "Age of Consent" and the recent 2003's "Calendar Girls"

Melanie Griffiths in 1975's "Night Moves" with Gene Hackman & James Woods.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: Mcbain on August 16, 2006, 01:48:46 PM
Quote
What do you think of it, folks? As my previous experiences with Helmann were far from exalting (I mean The Shooting and Ride in the Whirlwind) I wouldn't have tried this one were in not that it had all the premises of a SW, though it isn't.
I can't say is a masterpiece but, apart from two or three moments of stasis, it's a film that keeps you interested in the fate of the characters. Which is not a mean feat.
The thing that amazed me most was to discover how good Testi was.
Much talk it is made of Oates, who is good but not very.
I don't know what Jenny Agutter has done apart rom this movie, but there are some actresses in this film who are more attractive than her. Still there's a great fuss about her nude scenes: don't know why. Neither I don't know why the dvd copy in english seems to be edited of the nude scenes and in pan & scan.  I recorded the movie three days ago from an italian national channel and the master was letterboxed, with all the nudes there. Though the italian version is only 92' minutes long.


 I have been trying to find a good copy of China 9 but none seem to be available yet.

   
  Speaking of Fabio Testi he did a super job in "Four of the Apocolypse" 1975 Lucio Fulci.  Testi's final showdown with the crazed gunfighter at the end is very very good.  A sadly overlooked Italian western that is very moving.  Fabio Testi is a top flight actor.

Monte Helmann did a superb job directing "Cockfighter".  "Two Lane Blacktop" is really a classic as well. I highly reccomend "Cockfighter".  There will never be another film like it.  Anchorbay DVD has put out some of Hellman's and Lucio fulci's work.  They sport fantastic Anamorphic transfers.

For Jenny Auger films check out "Picnic at Hanging Rock" 1975 and the classic "The Railway children" 1970 directed by Lionel Jeffries

Cheers,

Eric


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 16, 2006, 02:07:35 PM


 I have been trying to find a good copy of China 9 but none seem to be available yet.


If you haven't seen China 9, believe me, you're not missing anything!   ;D


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: Marco Leone on August 18, 2006, 04:31:53 AM
I haven't seen this, but I notice is goes for stacks on ebay...... presumably because of the nudity lol.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: cigar joe on November 20, 2007, 09:14:13 AM
Check this out, a new full cut release, or the same old vhs derived cut? Its says the full 98 minutes:

http://www.amazon.com/China-9-Liberty-37/dp/B000X7S9T4/ref=sr_1_4/103-5015441-3843050?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1193568306&sr=1-4


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: The Firecracker on November 23, 2007, 03:37:16 AM
Check this out, a new full cut release, or the same old vhs derived cut? Its says the full 98 minutes:

http://www.amazon.com/China-9-Liberty-37/dp/B000X7S9T4/ref=sr_1_4/103-5015441-3843050?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1193568306&sr=1-4





Interesting cover...









NOT

(http://cientifica.eu/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/borat-flag-770131.jpg)


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: cigar joe on November 23, 2007, 08:11:32 AM
But the new Rough Guide for Westerns says its 102 minutes, another mystery to check into.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: Sundance on November 28, 2007, 03:40:21 AM
I have a version that runs 102 minutes and 25 seconds. Can't remember if theres any extra blackness (probably not) or something at the beginning or end which might make it longer than it really is.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: cigar joe on November 28, 2007, 05:42:08 AM
Where did you pick that version up?


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: Sundance on December 05, 2007, 09:27:16 AM
Apparently it was at least once shown on Encore Western years ago, somebody recorded it to VHS which was later transferred to DVDr which was later encoded into 1 CD divx avi (which is what I have).
I'm sure the DVDr disc could be bought but I have no idea from where...

It's only fullscreen though.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: cigar joe on December 05, 2007, 10:13:15 AM
thanks again O0


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: Sundance on March 20, 2008, 12:05:02 AM
This one now has a widescreen DVD release in Italy (only Italian audio I believe). Don't know how long it is, and it's not available at online stores. There's one copy at Ebay right now (might be the only one you ever see there... ;D ) and I'll be very surprised if it goes under 50euros (that's what... $75? ). ;)

The DVD isn't as bright as this image...
(http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/3007/vlcsnap1110175ks4.png)


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: cigar joe on March 20, 2008, 03:54:20 AM
That's a bit steep 8). Thanks for the info.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: The Firecracker on August 19, 2008, 04:04:57 AM
Well agutter was sort of famous for shucking her clothes, check out Walkabout. The only other film I remember her in was Silent Running with Bruce Dern


Recently caught up with "American Werewolf In London" and she's in this to.
I seem to recall a love scene between her and the protagonist so I'm sure she was nude.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: cigar joe on November 26, 2008, 06:16:22 PM
I watched this today, a 92 minute widescreen version from Italian TV that actually looked good, and for a Monty Hellman flick I was impressed, its way more polished than the "The Shooting" and had an obviously bigger production, Fabio Testi is good in the role of Clayton Drumm, Warren Oates and Jenny Agutter round out the main cast. Hellman keeps the story interesting enough to follow it to the end.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: dave jenkins on November 27, 2008, 03:10:37 PM
Joe, how were you able to see this?


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: cigar joe on February 07, 2009, 09:34:33 PM
Ok now I've seen both the Italian TV version & the English cut in almost full wide screen, there is still some trimming on the sides, in the title sequence its apparent, but like I've mentioned before the story is intriguing enough to keep you interested through to the end to see what is going to happen. Its  Monte Hellman's & Fabio Testi's best Western of what I've seen.  Testi does a great job & is believable in his character, Jenny Agutter looks very delectable & the story is plausible, Warren Oates plays a different type of character than his usual stock good old southern boy self.

Its got this classic line by Warren Oates about women "if they didn't have cunts there'd be a bounty on them".  O0

I'm not sure of the actual lengths of each I'll check on them and post back on that.

It should get an official release.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: cigar joe on February 10, 2009, 04:13:48 AM
Ok here is a better review of China 9 Liberty 37.

This is a Western that has sex as its driving force.

It’s basic Western cliché story line is hired gun Clayton Jones (Fabio Testi) is about to hang for some offence in the town of China, Texas. We see him in a jail cell and out in the town square we see a hanging platform with three nooses, a Chinaman and a China woman are bound and lined up below it we cut back to Clayton who is removed from his cell apparently to join the condemned. We cut to Clayton in the offices of a railroad company where some officials hand him a pardon with the stipulation that he is to go kill Matthew Sebanek, who won't sell out his land at the cheap price offered to the RR. He has become a small obstacle to the tracks.

Matthew Sebenek (Warren Oates) is sort of a hardscrabble squatter/homesteader, he is sitting upon land that has oil beneath it and knows it, oldest of the Sebenek brothers he looks to be between 45-55 years old, his comparatively child bride wife Catherine (Jenny Agutter) looks between 20-25, Matthew treats Catherine more like a slave than a partner, she is unhappy and shows it. There are no children present that, in most Hollywood Westerns, that depicted these types of May-December relationships would cement the couple together with a common cause.

Into this situation rides reluctant hired gun Clayton Jones and he gets his first eyeful of Catherine as she is bathing in the stream near the road to the homestead, she doesn't hear him coming while she reclines in the water and is surprised when Clayton's voice asks which way to the Sebenek's but not embarrassed and she does not try to cover up in any way. In subsequent scenes we learn that Matthew who was a former hired gun of the railroad has Clayton pretty much pegged for what he truly is, but that sort of binds him into a wary friendship with him that blossoms. We also see that love starved Catherine is attracted to Clayton by her demeanor and it is she who makes the first move to consummate an affair. Clayton who has come to like Matthew decides not to kill him and that he best get away from the dicey situation but Catherine gives it away on the day Clayton leaves and she and Matthew come to blows in the kitchen and she stabs Matthew and leaves him for dead.

Catherine rides away to follow Clayton.

Now this is an adult treatment of situations that are real, I've know real life stories that have played out exactly so and have had similar ends. It’s refreshing to see a Western with more mature themes that still has enough Western elements to keep it in Genre and interesting enough to keep you watching.

There are some nice stylistic camera shot touches in a later whorehouse confrontation. If I have any complaint about the film it would be the overly intrusive soundtrack that in some scenes plays annoyingly over the dialog, it doesn't help that it has a 70's sound to it.  Other music is provided by the actors themselves and gratefully its recorded live (not sound studio looping) and sounds very realistic.

Sam Peckinpah has a nice cameo as a seedy pulp novelist.

Check it out if you can find it. The version I saw was almost full wide screen though it still had some side cropping where you could tell so when the credits were rolling. For the most part you wouldn't notice it however there is one scene where when Catherine is coming on to Clayton, she stands in a open doorway in a nightgown back lit by a kerosene lantern and you can see she is plainly naked, she is half cut off by the cropping which makes me suspect that there may be a few more scenes where we are not seeing the full potential of the cinematography.







Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: cigar joe on February 12, 2009, 04:28:32 AM
Did a little check this morning English cut length from the abrupt start (its one of those beginnings where picture, harmonica music, and title credits abruptly appear) to the Fade Out to black after the end credits and Helman's "for my father" comes to 98 minutes 11 seconds. If you go to the Warner Bros. logo its a bit more but the actual film is 98 minutes 11 seconds.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: The Firecracker on August 04, 2009, 12:06:58 PM
Check this out, a new full cut release, or the same old vhs derived cut? Its says the full 98 minutes:

http://www.amazon.com/China-9-Liberty-37/dp/B000X7S9T4/ref=sr_1_4/103-5015441-3843050?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1193568306&sr=1-4

This dvd is better...

http://cultcine.com/products-page/westerns/china-9-liberty-37-remastered---uncut---1978---ntsc---monte-hellman-usa


Seems like an official release and runs about 5 minutes longer than the 98 minute version.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: riotengine on October 01, 2009, 11:46:55 PM
This dvd is better...

http://cultcine.com/products-page/westerns/china-9-liberty-37-remastered---uncut---1978---ntsc---monte-hellman-usa


Seems like an official release and runs about 5 minutes longer than the 98 minute version.

I've been wanting the uncut version of this. $15.00 seems pretty reasonable.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: cigar joe on October 02, 2009, 06:28:40 PM
well let us know if its a good transfer.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: Dust Devil on June 23, 2010, 11:39:40 AM
Watched the 92 minutes version and thought it was pretty bad. Wouldn't say it's the worst (S)W(-wannabe) around but it is scrapping pretty badly to make it past the absolute mediocrity line... and doesn't quite succeed. Fabio Testi is pretty bad here; though you can't say if all the fault should be thrown at his atrocious English or the acting also fits in the equation. Jenny Agutter's sexy but in a transparent/watery way, not for everyone and also not much in the way of screen presence or acting. Warren Oates gets the top bill, and he's doing virtually nothing, the irony's that he deserves it nevertheless. The plot is basically a soap opera, with very few exciting moments (there are a few after the first hour or so, can't remember any before that). Monte Hellman's direction seems pretty rudimentary, even taking in consideration there's that 40 minutes longer version, I don't think it could change my opinion drastically, I personally couldn't detect even a minuscule amount of enthusiasm from his side in the movie.


(barely a) 5/10



P.S. One of Sebanek's brothers steals the show, the blonde lad, can't remember who it was.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: Dust Devil on June 23, 2010, 11:45:47 AM
Joe, how were you able to see this?

I ain't Joe, but to answer your question (if you're still interested): on YT.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: O'Cangaceiro on July 29, 2010, 04:06:23 PM
I saw the 92 minutes version and I did like it. It is a bit of an unusual western, and judging by the style I wonder in Samp Peckimpah had more to do with it that just the cameo.

Looking forward to seeing the uncut version.

7/10.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: mike siegel on July 30, 2010, 04:42:16 AM
judging by the style I wonder in Samp Peckimpah had more to do with it that just the cameo.



7/10.

He didn't.
Monte Hellmann was a friend (he was co-editor on THE KILLER ELITE and also
was supposed to direct PAT GARRETT before TWO-LANE flopped at the box office).

Sam's cameo is quite good, Jenny is sweet but the film represents those bad mid 70s times for western. Quite bad.
(My liiife iiis nottt for saaale - Testi is funny in English)


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: mike siegel on July 30, 2010, 04:53:06 AM
'don't remember whether I already posted this rare shot:
(3 film makers & a DP :))
(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/sam/1977china9Kopie.jpg)


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: Novecento on July 30, 2010, 05:39:05 AM
I think I've seen that photo in a book although I can't remember which one.

I think Leone was just visiting. It's a shame he wasn't involved really.


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: mike siegel on July 30, 2010, 06:05:43 AM
I think I've seen that photo in a book although I can't remember which one.


hopefully in my book :)


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: Novecento on July 30, 2010, 06:15:31 AM
Would that be this one: http://www.amazon.de/Passion-Poetry-Sam-Peckinpah-Pictures/dp/3896024728/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1280492036&sr=8-4

Sadly I can't read German  :(


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: mike siegel on July 30, 2010, 06:38:20 AM
It's basically a photo-book anyway... (and out of print too)


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: dave jenkins on August 18, 2015, 06:59:30 PM
Monte Helmann did a superb job directing "Cockfighter".  "Two Lane Blacktop" is really a classic as well. I highly reccomend "Cockfighter".  There will never be another film like it. 


Cheers,

Eric
Now we'll all get a chance at it: http://www.amazon.co.jp/Cockfighter-Blu-ray/dp/B00DQNPQBG


Title: Re: China 9, Liberty 37 aka Amore, piombo e furore (1978)
Post by: Novecento on August 19, 2015, 02:30:37 PM
Now we'll all get a chance at it: http://www.amazon.co.jp/Cockfighter-Blu-ray/dp/B00DQNPQBG

Looks like that was released a couple of years ago.