Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Duck, You Sucker => Topic started by: Hippieoddball1 on July 22, 2003, 07:28:58 AM

Title: Saw Fistful of dynamite for the first time
Post by: Hippieoddball1 on July 22, 2003, 07:28:58 AM
Just got the dvd and watched it. Although i have been a fan of sergio for years and have seen the rest of his films so many times over the years, having seen the dollars trilogy every week just about since the age of four, i'm now 21.
I haven't seen thsi because i've never had chance always missed it when it wss on the tele, etc and not being able to get hold of a copy.
I must say i'm extremely dissapointed with it, i didn't expect it to be brilliant but i didn't expect it to be really dull. The last hour makes it into a alright film and of course there's moments of genius innit, but there a few things that are just poor about it.
First off it's not funny, the accents get on your nerves, and the first hour and a half are really slow and boring, like i said the last hour is good and there are great scenes but overall i'm very dissapointed.
I think this is because the film is too story based, well the first hour and a half anyway and the reason i like leone is because you don't need to know the story to watch his great scenes over and over again, there's too much talking in the first hour and a half and not enough music and emotion, but after that it picks up, i mean the scene in the rain when they get shot is genius, and the flashbacks are superb, i would like to see the last flashback in the iitalian version, and when the bridge  blows up, brilliant.
There's also another thing, why has everyone called james coburn character sean, when all the way through the film that name isn't even mentioned and he's clearly called john, i know it sometimes sounds like sean, but even in the news clipping that juan finds it says john.
Just a few thoughts after waychion it for the first time, hope my opinion improves of it, i'm sure it will, because the mans a genius.
But you can't really complain when he's directed six mature works, and 5 of them are the greatest films ever made, but we all would like more, what can we say the man's pure genius.

Anyone bored i know i am just typing it, thanks for reading though.

And it's quite obvious the film should have been called Duck You Ducker in every country.
Title: Re:Saw Fistful of dynamite for the first time
Post by: Garry Cowell on July 22, 2003, 07:51:35 AM
There's also another thing, why has everyone called james coburn character sean, when all the way through the film that name isn't even mentioned and he's clearly called john, i know it sometimes sounds like sean, but even in the news clipping that juan finds it says john.
His name is Sean (hence the lyrics in the music #Sean Sean Sean#)
If you listen to Coburn when Steiger first asks his name he clearly says "Sean". Then because Steiger doesn't understand he say the english version of it "John". After all Sean is the Irish version of John.
Title: Re:Saw Fistful of dynamite for the first time
Post by: Hippieoddball1 on July 22, 2003, 07:58:12 AM
yeah but in the paper clippings it says john, as it does on the box of the dvd. He says john if you ask me, who fuckin knows anyway coburn accent is shockin, i couldn't understand half the stuff he was sayin, and i'm english and my great grandparents were irish, thats where i get my fuckin ginger bonnet from, bastards.
Title: Re:Saw Fistful of dynamite for the first time
Post by: Jon on July 22, 2003, 09:59:19 AM
I disagree with  most of your comments[only my opinion though!!].The film is indeed a bit diiferent btu I love it because it sees Sergio attempting a film with more dialogue and actual character developement ]rather than rigid archetypes].And I do think it is funny,particulatly the first meetings of Sean and Juan.

This film will always divide Leone's fans.I think it's a great 'bridging' film between OUATITW and OUATIA.You are right about saying it should be called Duck You sucker though.
Title: Re:Saw Fistful of dynamite for the first time
Post by: KERMIT on July 22, 2003, 12:55:47 PM
   just to see a film  staring both steiger AND colburn  + H/oddB1's objective point of view is enough to make me go on a GB&U fast and let DUCK broaden my horizons.
Title: Re:Saw Fistful of dynamite for the first time
Post by: Cuchillo on July 22, 2003, 02:55:00 PM
Evening. It's a shame you didn't enjoy it that much, but it's great to read everyones opinions on it.  My other half got it today & we watched it (still not throwing out that 1982 vhs release of it yet!! in fact ever!). The print is great.  I really do like this film., - ignoring Senor Coburns slightly dodgy accent. I love the opening scene in the wagon. Leone's sense of humor is great. If a film makes me laugh & makes me think at the same time, i always think it's worth watching.
Altogether now: sean sean sean
 :P
Title: Re:Saw Fistful of dynamite for the first time
Post by: Cuchillo on July 22, 2003, 02:57:00 PM
 ::)Apologies. I wil post a much more interesting post tomorrow when i haven't been seduced by FFOD & various light ales.
I salute you all!
Title: Re:Saw Fistful of dynamite for the first time
Post by: Hippieoddball1 on July 22, 2003, 03:11:08 PM
This is funny. I've just watched it again and now i think it's fuckin brilliant. What a film, everything i said in the first post is bollocks.
I maintain it's not funny, but who cares it's just brilliant to watch.
Two things though that are a bit dodgy
1. Coburn's accent, that's the funniest thing in the film.
2. The model train that blows up at the end, it'd pretty obvious.

Apart from them two i think it's superb, i wish i never posted that first comment now, it's funny how your opinion can change.

I don't think it's funny because i don't like slapstick comedy anyway, even though there's not much of it and to be honest i'm prejudise against humour that doesn't come from england, because we are the greatest comedians in the world.

Although the good the bad and the ugly is funny, thanks to tuco, and clint, and because it's the greatest film ever made.

Back to this film though, pure class man, i'm just glad i watched it again so soon. It's some of the best scenes i've seen in my life, and steiger's performance is brilliant, coburn is as cool as ever.

It's been a funny old day, downs and up's, now i'm happy.
Title: Re:Saw Fistful of dynamite for the first time
Post by: KERMIT on July 22, 2003, 10:41:55 PM
 i was just about to comment on how  mood effects our perceptions while viewing a film first watched.  
i wqs going to say it would be interrestin H/oddB1 how w/ repeated viewing a film can go from disapointing to a
groove.   next time i'll strike while the iorn is hot.  

leone's magic abides    8)
Title: Re:Saw Fistful of dynamite for the first time
Post by: Jon on July 23, 2003, 12:49:24 AM
This is funny. I've just watched it again and now i think it's fuckin brilliant. What a film, everything i said in the first post is bollocks.
I maintain it's not funny, but who cares it's just brilliant to watch.
Two things though that are a bit dodgy
1. Coburn's accent, that's the funniest thing in the film.
2. The model train that blows up at the end, it'd pretty obvious.

Apart from them two i think it's superb, i wish i never posted that first comment now, it's funny how your opinion can change.

I don't think it's funny because i don't like slapstick comedy anyway, even though there's not much of it and to be honest i'm prejudise against humour that doesn't come from england, because we are the greatest comedians in the world.

Although the good the bad and the ugly is funny, thanks to tuco, and clint, and because it's the greatest film ever made.

Back to this film though, pure class man, i'm just glad i watched it again so soon. It's some of the best scenes i've seen in my life, and steiger's performance is brilliant, coburn is as cool as ever.

It's been a funny old day, downs and up's, now i'm happy.

Good to see you've changed your mind.Although I've always liked FFOD,I remember when i first saw OUATITW when I was about 15,after having not long seen the Dollars trilogy.I must admit,I was very disappointed,I actually found it boring!!Than I watched it again a couple of years later,and i saw the light,I realised it was actually a masterpiece!Maybe I was initailly too young to appreciate it,or expected something different,I can't remember.Leone'd films ALWAYS demand repeat viewing!!!
Title: Re:Saw Fistful of dynamite for the first time
Post by: shorty larsen on December 04, 2003, 01:15:22 PM
To me, OUTW is the best Morricone movie, but FFOD is my favourite one.

And probably because of the music.

I think Morricone's score is one of his sadest one.

Just a thing, in order to enjoy the best the Leone's movies, you said that the film is "too story based", but even GBU, OUTW and OUTA are even "too story based" as FFOD.
Title: Re:Saw Fistful of dynamite for the first time
Post by: The clint on December 04, 2003, 03:50:16 PM
When I saw it (the long version) for the first time, I thought it was far too long. Then I watched it again and I thought it was much better. I think Coburn is cool and it makes up for his accent which is muddled too say the least (Switching from American to some overexagerrated Irish). Which is it Sean or John? When he introduces himself he says: Sean, but then directly after he says: John. Steiger says: "That is fantastic, that's incredible. My name is Juan and yours is SEAN. It's Juan and JOHN, ay?" See if you can hear it too...

About that train crash sequence, I think the effects are eccellent but take a look at the frames in some of the shots of the exploding train that appear 'stretched' horizontally. Probably stock footage printed on Techniscope film.
Title: Re: Saw Fistful of dynamite for the first time
Post by: kelseyradley on September 06, 2023, 08:37:02 PM
Just as I was ready to make a comment regarding how our perceptions of a movie are affected by mood. 
I had intended to add that it would be interesting. how a movie may go from being disappointing to being in a groove with repeated viewings.   The following time, I'll act quickly. 

Leone's magic endures
Title: Re: Saw Fistful of dynamite for the first time
Post by: dave jenkins on September 07, 2023, 04:11:04 AM
Isn't there any way to flag this AI stuff and get it deleted?
Title: Re: Saw Fistful of dynamite for the first time
Post by: noodles_leone on September 07, 2023, 08:48:05 AM
Hey, new blood.
Title: Re: Saw Fistful of dynamite for the first time
Post by: cigar joe on September 07, 2023, 06:52:57 PM
Isn't there any way to flag this AI stuff and get it deleted?

which?
Title: Re: Saw Fistful of dynamite for the first time
Post by: noodles_leone on September 08, 2023, 01:56:43 AM
kelseyradley's posts for instance. As well as pauldupont's ones. Those are ai generated. Those aren't real humans talking here. I'm also more and more convinced Drink's post are written by a broken AI.
Title: Re: Saw Fistful of dynamite for the first time
Post by: cigar joe on September 08, 2023, 06:37:49 AM
kelseyradley's posts for instance. As well as pauldupont's ones. Those are ai generated. Those aren't real humans talking here. I'm also more and more convinced Drink's post are written by a broken AI.


Lol.

So AI is getting interested in Leone. Interesting, but for what?

btw HOW can you tell, and what gives it away.
Title: Re: Saw Fistful of dynamite for the first time
Post by: noodles_leone on September 08, 2023, 06:57:49 AM
The is a certain "blur" in every AI generated content, wether it's image or text. In this case, check out their messages. They actually don't say anything. There is no point. It's a vague rephrasing of what came before. AI text is very very good with context, not that much with generating ideas.

Here is what an AI understood of the previous posts (I started with Shorty Larsen post so it had some context):

Quote
In this exchange on an internet forum dedicated to Sergio Leone, participants discussed various topics related to the director's films and Ennio Morricone's music. They shared their opinions on films such as "Once Upon a Time in the West" (OUTW) and "For a Few Dollars More" (FFOD), as well as Morricone's music.

"The Clint's" comment initially mentions his perception of the film "For a Few Dollars More" (FFOD) as being too long, but he later appreciated it more upon a second viewing, despite noting issues with actor James Coburn's accent. This led to a discussion about Coburn's character's name.

They also discussed the train crash sequence in the film, noting potential issues with the special effects in some scenes.

"kelseyradley" briefly touched upon the concept of how one's mood can affect their perception of a film and suggested that movies may appear different after repeated viewings.

Finally, a user named Dave Jenkins expressed concern about the presence of AI on the forum and questioned the possibility of flagging or deleting it. Another user, "Cigar Joe," responded with humor.

A user named "Noodles_Leone" made allegations that some posts are generated by AI, citing users kelseyradley and pauldupont as examples. "Cigar Joe" then expressed interest in AI's involvement in discussions about Sergio Leone and asked how participants can tell which posts are AI-generated.

And now I asked the AI to write kelseyradley's answer. Here is my brief:

Quote
Now can you write kelseyradley's answer? He's trying to prove he isn't an AI but a real human interested in the topic at hand. He's also trying to get back on topic.

Here is what the AI came up with:

Quote
"Well, folks, I can assure you that I'm not an AI, but just a real human who's genuinely interested in discussing Sergio Leone's work. Let's get back to the topic at hand. Has anyone noticed the recurring themes in Leone's films, such as the exploration of greed and vengeance? I find it fascinating how these themes are woven into the narrative and how Leone's style brings them to life on the screen."

So how "natural" it seems at first glance but on closer inspection it doesn't really express an actual idea? Only vague terms associated with Leone and a bad movie critic way to piece the sentence together. AI generated content, NOWADAYS, cannot create. It can just imitate cohesiveness.
Title: Re: Saw Fistful of dynamite for the first time
Post by: cigar joe on September 08, 2023, 07:16:43 AM
Quote
So how "natural" it seems at first glance but on closer inspection it doesn't really express an actual idea? Only vague terms associated with Leone and a bad movie critic way to piece the sentence together. AI generated content, NOWADAYS, cannot create. It can just imitate cohesiveness.

Don't expect me to pay that much attention on here, lol. I'm never going to give a post that closer inspection.

I still don't understand the point of it. Are you saying that some one directed A.I to create a fake name account so it can post here? Why? The other problem is I don't approve new members as far as I know the webpage is on auto pilot.
Title: Re: Saw Fistful of dynamite for the first time
Post by: noodles_leone on September 08, 2023, 07:38:17 AM
Don't expect me to pay that much attention on here, lol. I'm never going to give a post that closer inspection.

I still don't understand the point of it. Are you saying that some one directed A.I to create a fake name account so it can post here? Why? The other problem is I don't approve new members as far as I know the webpage is on auto pilot.

No it's just the new generation of spam bots. They post a few "cohesive" posts and sometimes slide a spam link in the post.
Title: Re: Saw Fistful of dynamite for the first time
Post by: cigar joe on September 08, 2023, 01:22:45 PM
No it's just the new generation of spam bots. They post a few "cohesive" posts and sometimes slide a spam link in the post.

I deleted the links. But the original question (about new members) is that they'd have to be new members that are joining the board (I don't get any new member notices), not some type of sleeper account that's been dormant.

I'm automatically signed in, is there still a mechanism to join the board, I don't even know that. lol
Title: Re: Saw Fistful of dynamite for the first time
Post by: uncknown on October 09, 2023, 11:06:42 PM
There is a special place in hell reserved for people who complain about accents.
Right next to people who complain about " historical inaccuracies" in docudramas and biopics!😉