Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => For a Few Dollars More => Topic started by: Kurug3n on January 25, 2007, 04:12:17 PM



Title: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Kurug3n on January 25, 2007, 04:12:17 PM
I mean FOD and GBU are great movies but i feel as though this is the greater of the 3 films.


Title: Re: What have YOU noticed while watching this?
Post by: Kurug3n on January 25, 2007, 04:16:00 PM
eek! You clicked the wrong sub-board! Just delete the thread and repost it in the Fistful of Dollars sub-board.

yes i know ;D ;D so i changed the subject
 


Title: Re: What have YOU noticed while watching this?
Post by: Silenzio on January 25, 2007, 04:17:19 PM
yes i know ;D ;D so i changed the subject
 

Crap. I just deleted my post, thinking I had dreamt the whole original topic... like in OUATIA. Only without opium.


Title: Re: What have YOU noticed while watching this?
Post by: Kurug3n on January 25, 2007, 04:18:29 PM
Crap. I just deleted my post, thinking I had dreamt the whole original topic... like in OUATIA. Only without opium.

lol


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Beebs on January 25, 2007, 07:09:47 PM
I agree. This is my favorite of the three. GBU is a very VERY close second, obviously. I particularly like Van Cleef's role.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Juan Miranda on January 25, 2007, 08:16:37 PM
Of Leone's westerns, this is my third fave, after GBU and GUI LA TESTA. OUTIW is magnificent, true, but it always feels too streached, ambitious and even portentous considering what little it eventualy has to say. It's basically exacty the same plot as FARDM, but with layers of then fashionable Italian political posturings probably coming from Leone's co-writers rather from Sergio himself.

FOR A FEW DOLLARS MORE is a more simple and fantastic adventure, flawless in almost every department.

His best ever film though remains ONCE UPON A TIME IN AMERICA, for me at least.


ETA: Oops, didn't read the question properly, of "the 3", it's

GBU

FAFDM

FFOD


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: T.H. on January 25, 2007, 09:57:44 PM
I prefer GBU, but both are ****/****, 10/10 movies to me.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: CoDHarmonica on January 26, 2007, 09:38:03 AM
For A Few Dollars More is my favourite of the dollars films, the running time is perfect (doesn't drag), the music is second only to Once Upon A Time In The West, Indio is a great bad guy (he's hilarious when he smokes his joints and reminds me of Gary Oldman's character in Leon in the overacting stakes), its comic moments are spot on (the hat shooting competition is classic Leone humour), Clint rocks, Van Cleef menaces and the whole film rules.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: The Firecracker on January 26, 2007, 12:12:14 PM
I prefer GBU overall for it's scope which this film is slightly lacking.

But if you have 2 hours to kill and want to see something excellent you can't go wrong with this one. The story stays on track and Leone never let's loose the way he does in GBU.

And the best part about it is Van Cleef is the hero of the movie. Not Clint (who is subjected to cleaning up after Cleef's leftovers just before the film ends).


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: cigar joe on January 26, 2007, 09:22:24 PM
GBU
FAFDM
AFOD


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: dave jenkins on January 27, 2007, 06:33:49 PM
One can make the case that FFDM is the greatest since it was the first to exhibit the inimitable Leone style in all its glory. But, personally, I enjoy GBU more. It is to me what The Odyssey was to Homer's first audience (OUATITW, BTW, makes a good Iliad). FFDM is more like The Argonautica, great, but not AS great......


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Juan Miranda on January 27, 2007, 06:56:12 PM
,BTW, makes a good Iliad).

In what way? Jill may make a decent Cassandra, but Helen never, and do you mean Frank is Paris and Cheyenne as Achillies? So who (ha!) is Harmonica?


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: The Firecracker on January 27, 2007, 07:05:16 PM
who (ha!)



HOO HA!


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Leone Admirer on February 01, 2007, 06:03:25 PM
I must admit, as much as I enjoy TGTBTU's great scope, wonderful characters and entertaining plot, I'm leaning to For A Few Dollars More as my fave of the 3 just because I find it more entertaining with a great score and excellent villains.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Cusser on February 01, 2007, 06:25:15 PM
The ending of FAFDM always brings a tear to my eye when Mortimer  says "I think it's all for you, you deserve it" then "Maybe next time".


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Tuco the ugly on February 03, 2007, 12:08:28 PM
The ending of FAFDM always brings a tear to my eye when Mortimer  says "I think it's all for you, you deserve it" then "Maybe next time".


yeah,sad lines


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 06, 2007, 08:02:23 PM
Yeah, those lines along with the music are very touching. This ending is classic, but I like TGTBATU just a bit more. They are both perfect though.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: poderator on February 21, 2007, 03:31:53 AM
Great hommage to a Western genre. I mean, that moment when col. Mortimer rides of at the sunset.... Classic.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: cigar joe on February 21, 2007, 05:32:43 AM
I think its a sunrise and he's heading east, I don't think the gunbattle with Indio's Gang took a whole 12 hr day


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Banjo on February 21, 2007, 06:10:14 AM
Until relatively recently i always considered FAFDM to be the best in the trilogy.The movie seemed to be better paced than GBU,i prefered LVC as Mortimer and Indio was a better villain than Angel Eyes.Also the final duel is more moving than the GBU finale.
   But as with OUATITW i grew to appreciate the pure epicness of GBU and Tuco just grew and grew on me so now maybe i'd put them about level.
   Interestingly(and i'd like to hear Titoli's take on this) i read that in Italy FAFDM was by far the more popular of the two and that GBU was seen as some sort of watered down cop out by Leone :o


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: T.H. on February 21, 2007, 03:54:22 PM
I am almost positive that FAFDM was more popular at the box office, I don't know about the whole watered down comment.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Banjo on February 22, 2007, 02:11:25 AM
In Hughes sw book- " the more sentimental moments in the film(Tuco praying to a painting of Christ,Blondy ministering to dying soldiers,Angel Eyes giving a starving Confederate soldier a bottle of whiskey) were a dilution of Leones style and a sell out to the United Artists money men"


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Tim on February 22, 2007, 08:34:59 PM
Quote
In Hughes sw book- " the more sentimental moments in the film(Tuco praying to a painting of Christ,Blondy ministering to dying soldiers,Angel Eyes giving a starving Confederate soldier a bottle of whiskey) were a dilution of Leones style and a sell out to the United Artists money men"

  Sell out or not, I like all the scenes you mentioned, banjo.   ;D  Tuco praying to the Christ painting I always interpreted as just another peel off the onion of Tuco.  Angel Eyes giving the soldier the whiskey made him somewhat human and part of the best added scene IMO.  And as for Blondie with ministering for soldiers, his moments with the Union captain and the mortally wounded Confederate soldier are very moving.  Just my thoughts on the subject though. :)


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Banjo on February 23, 2007, 05:42:10 AM
  Sell out or not, I like all the scenes you mentioned, banjo. 
Me too!! ;)


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: The Peacemaker on February 23, 2007, 10:42:07 AM
I agree with Banjo's earlier comment on how El Indio is a far better villain than Angel Eyes.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 24, 2007, 02:10:58 PM
The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly a sellout?!?! I DO NOT THINK SO. I would never believe that for a second. It's arguably the greatest movie ever made.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Faisalha9159 on February 24, 2007, 06:22:22 PM
My dad does. For sure.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Kurug3n on February 24, 2007, 06:33:27 PM
The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly a sellout?!?! I DO NOT THINK SO. I would never believe that for a second. It's arguably the greatest movie ever made.

sellout no but Greatest Movie ever? thats arguably


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Man with no dame on May 13, 2007, 05:34:16 PM
Of the three, I would tie this one with GBU. Just rewatched this one again last night(haven't seen it in years) and Volonte's over the top psycho bandit is right up there with Hannibal Lector. Very close call. But Fistful shouldn't be slighted either. Think it has the best Morricone tracks of the 3.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Banjo on May 14, 2007, 05:33:28 AM
haven't seen it in years
Hey you must've been really inspired to join up here so sudden then! ;)


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Man with no dame on May 14, 2007, 06:28:39 AM
Strangely enough, I'm gonna miss my newbie status when I lose it, because  I saw all these films when they were first released in US, and find it chucklesome to be called a newbie on these films. Got burned out on westerns for a few decades , until I noticed they don't attempt to even make them now. Now I'm hooked on them again. Go figure. It's like running into an old girlfriend, and thinking "wow" she's really hot!


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: cigar joe on May 14, 2007, 06:46:37 AM
I know what you mean, I saw all three around 67/68 too, and it seems that over the last 30 years what Westerns that are made are evolving back to what they were pre Leone.

Have you ever seen any of the contemporaries of Leone's Spaghetti Westerns in their uncut widescreen presentations? Some of them will give you the same sence of wonderment amd feelings that Leone's films gave you when you were a kid. But beware there are good DVD's and very poor DVD releases out there.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Man with no dame on May 14, 2007, 07:04:07 AM
Fortunately, and unfortunately, Leone takes up most shelf space in genre, leaving little chance to see re-released versions of his contemporaries. Like Tonino Valerii, & Petroni, but very hard to find except bad print bargain bins. Westerns in general get short shrift in the market, look how long it took to get good prints of Pat Garret and Duck, You Sucker.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: cigar joe on May 14, 2007, 07:11:33 AM
SPO Japan made some very good but $$$$$ SW collections. You can find out of print DVDr's on Ebay sometimes.

But the easier ones to find on Amazon are from Blue Underground and Anchor Bay.

Vamos a Matar Companeros
The Great Silence
Keoma

come to mind there are others.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Man with no dame on May 14, 2007, 07:58:33 AM
Not to change the subject, but I saw the original TV broadcast of Fistful with the legendary tagged-on beginning. Years later, seeing it again, I thought I had just imagined seeing it. Was wondering if there's a print out there with it , even in extras. Has anyone else seen it? Where in forum would I ask?


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Man with no dame on May 14, 2007, 08:07:31 AM
Never mind, I found it! Look before I speak.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Banjo on May 14, 2007, 08:23:34 AM
Like Tonino Valerii, & Petroni
Did you see any of these directors films in the cinema's too?


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Man with no dame on May 14, 2007, 08:34:29 AM
Saw more than I can remember now. Most of them were on double and triple bill 50cent all-you-could-watch theaters. Back in the day, you could roam the theaters, if you got bored with this western, you walked over to the biker movie, and so on. Eventually, they shut that down because kids were sneaking into the "R"s and "M"s(pre-Xs).


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Banjo on May 14, 2007, 08:41:26 AM
Most of them were on double and triple bill 50cent all-you-could-watch theaters.
Sounds like sw heaven to me! :)

Shame that non of the great non-Leone Italian westerns stuck in your mind,and i'd go along with CJ's recommendations. :)


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Man with no dame on May 14, 2007, 08:59:02 AM
Oh , they stuck in my mind, but there was so many good films in that era, you kind of got sensory overload. Foreign films got a lot more play than they do today, unfortunately. That, plus I was younger, and Leone was the bomb, all others paled by comparison. You couldn't watch OUTW and then Django. Now I judge them more objectively.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: dave jenkins on May 14, 2007, 05:21:16 PM
Eventually, they shut that down because kids were sneaking into the "R"s and "M"s(pre-Xs).
Actually, I believe the "M" designation was replaced by "PG."


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Man with no dame on May 15, 2007, 06:56:30 AM
I think M went to X with Midnight Cowboy, grindhouse & drive-in fare usually was R, and everything else was G. They started building the sub-ratings (PG,XXX) from there.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: titoli on May 16, 2007, 04:34:37 PM
None here has named Kinski  >:(.
And yes, like Cusser, I cry (or get on the verge of tears) each time I listen to the COlonel after duel's lines.
The final duel to me ranks as the best single moment of L.'s cinematography, higher than Ecstasy of Gold.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Banjo on May 16, 2007, 05:07:37 PM
None here has named Kinski  >:(.
I cry (or get on the verge of tears) each time I listen to the COlonel after duel's lines.
I don't actually cry (some other stuff gets me very close -us Englishman are not really allowed to show our feelings so i have to try not to cry-you Italians are lucky Titoli) but yes those interchanges with Eastwood are very touching.And final duel has a bigger emotional impact than GBU.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: titoli on May 16, 2007, 05:27:52 PM
This scene has an impact on me because, as almost with every SW I saw at the movies, it was with my father, who's gone forever some years ago. Apart from the emotion of the scene itself, I can't but think about him (I remember he was sitting on my left when I saw this in the theatre a 100 yds from my home in 1965 or 1966 ) whenever I watch it.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Banjo on May 17, 2007, 02:03:29 AM
And of course Mortimer was like a fatherly figure to Manco. :)


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: dave jenkins on May 17, 2007, 08:49:05 AM
I think M went to X with Midnight Cowboy, grindhouse & drive-in fare usually was R, and everything else was G. They started building the sub-ratings (PG,XXX) from there.
Just pulled this off wikipedia, and it accords with my memory:

Quote
Original ratings

The original movie ratings (in use 19681970) consisted of:

    * Rated G: General Audiences. All ages admitted...no matter what
    * Rated M: Suggested for Mature Audiences. Parental discretion advised.
    * Rated R: Restricted. Persons under 16 are not admitted unless accompanied by parent or adult guardian.
    * Rated X: Persons under 17 not admitted.

Originally, the rating system was to have three classification levels ending with Restricted (similar to the rating system used in most Canadian Provinces at the time) however, pressure from theatre owners influenced the MPAA to create a film rating (X) exclusively for adults to protect theatre owners from complaints and legal procedures. Initially, the X rating wasn't trademarked: under the plan, anyone not submitting his or her film for rating could self-apply the X (or any other symbol or description, except one trademarked by the rating program).

The M rating is replaced

Many parents were confused as to whether M-rated films contained more mature content than those rated R. This was especially because during the pre-rating years of 1965 to 1968, an earlier form of crude classification allowed more graphic content to be included so long as the film's advertising bore the notation "Suggested for Mature Audiences" (often abbreviated as "SMA"). Some parents even mistakenly thought that an R rating was less serious than a M rating. This confusion led to its replacement in 1970 by the designation GP, for General Patronage:

    * Rated GP: All Ages Admitted/Parental Guidance Suggested

The G in GP was meant to designate that the film had no age restrictions on audience admissions (as in the G rating, "All Ages Admitted"), while the P was to inform audiences that although no ages would be restricted, the discretion of parents was suggested. (The auditory similarity between G and GP soon caused this designation to be further revised into the PG rating, an acronym of Parental Guidance.)


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Man with no dame on May 17, 2007, 03:42:38 PM
Good work! Most of those films are laughably tame, now, compared to what you see today. Seem to remember a trailer with Chuck Heston back when he was head of the guild, in which he explained the change over to the new system. Kinda like a 60's version of a WWII VD film. Once again thanx for clarifying my memory. O0


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Rubio on January 23, 2010, 09:54:15 AM
It's my favorite of the three for sure. Mostly because of Indio and Mortimer. Monco was probably my least favorite of the three characters that Clint played though, but he is cool too.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Huey on January 23, 2010, 08:16:21 PM
I would rate this one first because it has the best storyline of the three and the whole genre's most memorable villain, indeed the most memorable gang of villains, although it is LVC who ambles away with the picture.  GBU, like OUTW, was an epic so not as directly comparable with FDM.  GBU had better cinematography, I think, and was well served by all of Clint, LVC and Eli.  But I must come back to the storyline which in GBU was essentially very simple and rather predictable once the three main characters and the mysterious Bill Carson were established.  In FDM, the latent motive of Mortimer provides a brilliant sub-plot which transcends what would otherwise be a straightforward tale of bounty hunters seeking and infiltrating a gang of bandits.  FDM also has fascinating aspects like Mortimer's arsenal and the myriad of characters making up Indio's gang.

Plus, it came before GBU and it established the stylistic impact that was hinted at, but not completely achieved, in FOD; and was inherited by GBU and OUTW.  FDM was a truly ground-breaking movie.

As an aside, I agree with Rubio's comment about Clint in FDM.  I thought Manco was his weakest character, completely overshadowed by Mortimer to the point of being a useful accessory.  He was much better in GBU where he worked well with Eli, these two complementing each other as "good" and ugly counterpoints to the bad.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Rubio on January 23, 2010, 09:25:37 PM
As an aside, I agree with Rubio's comment about Clint in FDM.  I thought Manco was his weakest character, completely overshadowed by Mortimer to the point of being a useful accessory.  He was much better in GBU where he worked well with Eli, these two complementing each other as "good" and ugly counterpoints to the bad.

Right on. Although, I'd say Eli slightly overshadows Clint in GBU but it's nowhere near the amount that Cleef did in FAFDM.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: El_Chuncho on February 04, 2010, 01:50:26 PM
FOR A FEW DOLLARS MORE.

great characters in a well-paced, brilliantly layered film which gets better every time you watch it.
I saw it on telly as a kid over christmas and they had the 3 films on over three nights (christmas eve, christmas day and boxing day as I remember). At the time this is the one I most connected with and it remains so to this day, probably because of the score and Gian Maria Volonte's performance.

its far and away the one I watch most.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: johnk on July 16, 2010, 08:18:05 AM
Each one has its own merits ............Fistful of Dollars with its raw basic style...............For a few Dollars for its style and GBU for its total Self Indulgence.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 16, 2012, 11:37:26 PM
I just saw FAFDM again (with Frayling's commentary). What an amazing movie, it gets better with age. The town of El Paso is simply beautiful, easily my favorite Western set of all-time.

I had a few comments and questions on the movie, and since I prefer using old threads rather than starting new threads unless absolutely necessary, I figured I'll post my thoughts here:

1) Some things you don't notice till after multiple viewings: in the scene where we cut back and forth between Monco and Mortimer looking at the WANTED poster of Indio, notice that during Monco's montage, his eyes move to the line "$10,000 Reward"; then, when we cut to Mortimer's montage, his eyes move to the line "El Indio... DEAD OR ALIVE." It's a wonderful, subtle point that you can't pick up on until after multiple viewings, but it's a nice little hint there: Monco is focused on the reward money, while Mortimer is focused on killing Indio.

2) The prison break scene is done so well; in classic AW's, you might have one guy pull a six-shooter on a sheriff and voila -- prison break! But here, the scene is handled with the intricacy it deserves: this prison break took careful planning, there are many guards, and Indio's gang has planned for it all, using strategy of first killing the guards silently with knives so they can break in, then blasting the guards on the inside, then heading into the office to kill the warden, etc. It's a great scene, handled with the respect it deserves.
That sort of thing gives the movie the proper feel: this is taken seriously; when shit is done lazily, like one guy pulling a pistol on one incompetent sheriff and the prison break being over in 60 seconds,  it just isn't the same experience watching it.  Ditto with the introductions of the first two characters as well: Leone could have taken care of all 3 introductions and gotten the plot going in 5 minutes, but these elaborate, wonderfully constructed scenes make the movie what it is. The scenes which introduce us to the two bounty hunters -- Mortimer in Tucumcari, Monco in White Rocks -- let you know immediately that this is gonna be a very different kind of movie. We've all seen so many duels in Westerns, but as soon as you see the Tucumcari and White Rocks duels at the beginning of this movie, it immediately lets you know that something very special is about to happen here; these duels are simply in a different league than all the duels we've seen in other Westerns.



3) another nice little touch: when Nino, Cuchillo, Groggy, and Wild come to El Paso to plan the bank robbery, we see them drinking beer at the saloon. Usually, people drink hard stuff in Leone Westerns, but here they are drinking beer. Well, we learn pretty soon that they are on an important mission -- that's why they are trying not to make a scene, and leave the saloon quietly when Mortimer tries provoking Wild -- so I guess it makes sense that they;d just be having a beer: they are on an important job, and can't drink hard stuff and get wasted. (Maybe the fact that they are drinking beer is the first thing tipped off Mortimer that they are here on a discreet mission -- and he tried provoking Wild just to confirm his suspicions?) Again, a nice little touch that you may not pick up on until after multiple viewings. Like a great big puzzle, so many little pieces have to be carefully put together, just right, in the making of a great movie. Besides the great director and great actors, the composer, the production design by Carlo Simi, thee nice little touches we've mentioned in these scenes. Many movies have great performances, or a great score, or a great story, but what separates the really great movies from the rest of the pack is putting all these elements together: having the great director, the great performances, the great music, the great production design, all this stuff put together, and then you have a masterpiece!

Now I have two questions:

A)  We've seen how Mortimer got to El Paso: he figured that Indio would try to rob the biggest bank in the West. But why is Monco here? Has he come to the same conclusion? We never really see that explained. At the end of the scene where the 4 members of Indio's gang are staking out the bank, we see that Monco is also looking around with binoculars -- so he is aware of what's going on as well, and I guess that's the surprise? That only when we see Monco holding the bincoulars, looking at Mortimer, do we realize that Monco has had the same thought process as Mortimer all along -- he has also figured out that Indio will try to rob the biggest bank, which is in El Paso, and that's why Monco is in El Paso?



B)   what was Monco so upset at Mortimer about, when he tried breaking off the partnership? It seems that indio's plans surprised them; Monco said that Mortimer was supposed to have  been the "one who had it all worked out,"  and that "I've been reasonable with no results," to which Mortimer responded that "we only knew the Santa Cruz part of his plan." But I don't understand -- didn't Indio had tell the gang -- including Monco -- that Monco would be creating the diversion with the Santa Cruz bank robbery, so that the rest of the gang could take care of the El Paso bank robbery? But based on the quizzical looks on the faces of Monco and Mortimer during the robbery, and based on their nasty comments to each other afterward, it's clear that something about Indio's plans surprised them, and I really can't figure out what it was. Seemed pretty clear to me that Indio had told Monco that the El Paso robbery was going to take place as soon as Monco could get the El Paso Sheriff and his deputies to leave for Santa Cruz



Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: cigar joe on July 17, 2012, 03:47:08 AM
For B I think they both figured that the gang would enter the bank from the front door, not blow a hole in the rear wall, that is the reason for the quizzical looks.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 17, 2012, 05:02:21 AM
For B I think they both figured that the gang would enter the bank from the front door, not blow a hole in the rear wall, that is the reason for the quizzical looks.

so what? the bottom line is that Monco was there when Indio announced the plan: he knew the gang was going to rob the bank; they indeed robbed the bank, and now they are fleeing to Los Palmeros, where Monco is gonna meet them. Seems to me like everything is going perfectly to plan, just like Indio said; I can't possibly understand why Monco should be so angry at Mortimer. The fact that the blew the back wall, how should that affect anything? the only theoretical argument I can hear is that Monco and Mortimer had planned to kill the gang while they were in the bank; but now that the gang uses a different method, of blowing the back wall, they are unable to kill them. So now Monco and Mortimer's plan has failed. I am not sure I'd agree with that argument, but even if I did, that still doesn't explain why Monco would be angry at Mortimer. (Monco is the one on the inside; if anything, Monco should be the one with knowledge of how the bank job would be carried out).


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: El_Chuncho on July 17, 2012, 05:56:53 AM
so what? the bottom line is that Monco was there when Indio announced the plan: he knew the gang was going to rob the bank; they indeed robbed the bank, and now they are fleeing to Los Palmeros, where Monco is gonna meet them. Seems to me like everything is going perfectly to plan, just like Indio said; I can't possibly understand why Monco should be so angry at Mortimer. The fact that the blew the back wall, how should that affect anything? the only theoretical argument I can hear is that Monco and Mortimer had planned to kill the gang while they were in the bank; but now that the gang uses a different method, of blowing the back wall, they are unable to kill them. So now Monco and Mortimer's plan has failed. I am not sure I'd agree with that argument, but even if I did, that still doesn't explain why Monco would be angry at Mortimer. (Monco is the one on the inside; if anything, Monco should be the one with knowledge of how the bank job would be carried out).


But Manco didn't know that they were going to blow the back of the bank.

Remember he was only with the gang during the night of Sancho's release...after that he heads away with Blacky, Chico and Paco at Indio's request.
It is probably after they've gone that Indio tells the rest of the gang that they are going to go round the back of the bank instead of the more obvious frontal attack.
(Remember that Indio later tells Nino how he always knew that Manco was a bounty killer: He wouldn't have allowed Manco to be privy to every detail of the plan.)

As for Manco's anger, I think it's probably because he wasn't exactly "into" the idea of having a partner in the first place....

Remember how he tried to coerce Mortimer into leaving by getting the Chinese man to take his bag to the station?
He is obviously keen to be the only contestant in this particular game.

After the shootout at night Mortimer and Manco call a truce and the Colonel tries to get him on side, and finally (after much deliberation) persuades him to at least try his plan.
The plan however involves Manco taking ALL the risks (break Sancho Perez out of gaol, go undercover with Indio's band, kill 3 of them and pretend to rob the Santa Cruz bank etc)

In short, Manco (in his eyes anyway) has to do the dirty work while Mortimer waits in El Paso for the band to come to him and probably snipe the robbers from the comparative safety of his hotel window.

Therefore when finally the plan doesn't go the way Mortimer insisted it would, Manco is left feeling it's a  damn waste of time and that he'd probably have been better doing it on his own (as he had wanted to before their paths crossed).

That's my take on it anyway.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: El_Chuncho on July 17, 2012, 06:17:06 AM
.....Just to add to DrinkandDestroy's notes on the fine details of Leone's work:

I love the way that Indio sends Manco off to Santa Cruz with Blacky, Chico and Paco who if you remember are who Groggy turns up with. In short, they are Groggy's men; he doesn't send any of his own crew.

I always got the feeling that Groggy is eyeing the throne and is from the start a bit disrespectful of Indio and a bit overfamiliar; laughing at Sancho Perez' imprisonment and saying quite deliberately that "a man who gets caught doesn't deserve respect eh?" in the full knowledge that Indio himself has spent some recent time in prison.

I think Indio realises that Groggy is also a danger so by casually sending Groggy's men off he weakens Groggy's powerbase...kills 2 birds with 1 stone (or 3 in this case).



Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Cusser on July 17, 2012, 09:15:30 PM
Some things you don't notice till after multiple viewings: in the scene where we cut back and forth between Monco and Mortimer looking at the WANTED poster of Indio, notice that during Monco's montage, his eyes move to the line "$10,000 Reward"; then, when we cut to Mortimer's montage, his eyes move to the line "El Indio... DEAD OR ALIVE." It's a wonderful, subtle point that you can't pick up on until after multiple viewings, but it's a nice little hint there: Monco is focused on the reward money, while Mortimer is focused on killing Indio.

My homage to that scene is about one minute into one of my safety videos.  The part preceding that is an overall homage to Leone.

See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_QeOvt9qEk


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: drinkanddestroy on July 17, 2012, 09:36:08 PM
My homage to that scene is about one minute into one of my safety videos.  The part preceding that is an overall homage to Leone.

See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_QeOvt9qEk


haha great work Cussboy, as always  O0


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: cigar joe on July 18, 2012, 04:12:40 AM
 O0


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Leonardo on July 18, 2012, 05:26:15 AM
 O0 O0 to both the video ...and Dana Ardebili.... ;)


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Groggy on July 18, 2012, 07:37:33 AM
.....Just to add to DrinkandDestroy's notes on the fine details of Leone's work:

I love the way that Indio sends Manco off to Santa Cruz with Blacky, Chico and Paco who if you remember are who Groggy turns up with. In short, they are Groggy's men; he doesn't send any of his own crew.

I always got the feeling that Groggy is eyeing the throne and is from the start a bit disrespectful of Indio and a bit overfamiliar; laughing at Sancho Perez' imprisonment and saying quite deliberately that "a man who gets caught doesn't deserve respect eh?" in the full knowledge that Indio himself has spent some recent time in prison.

I think Indio realises that Groggy is also a danger so by casually sending Groggy's men off he weakens Groggy's powerbase...kills 2 birds with 1 stone (or 3 in this case).

I never caught that detail myself, cool. O0 Indio seems more of an evil genius with each passing view.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: dave jenkins on July 18, 2012, 04:18:46 PM
yeah, El Chuncho, very, very well observed. That went by me as well. O0 O0 O0


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: emmo26 on January 03, 2013, 06:26:52 AM
For me its GBU everytime. If youd had to pick one last film you would have see before you die, I would think the most ardent FaFDM fans would pick GBU over FaFDM .







The last 15-20 minutes of this movie just keeps on giving and giving.


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Senza on February 23, 2013, 08:08:43 PM
Can we not just love all three?


Title: Re: Who thinks that this is best out of all 3??
Post by: Huey on January 18, 2014, 02:55:04 PM
Hey, this is the best of the trilogy, IMO, but Sergio went even higher with OUTW.