Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Duck, You Sucker => Topic started by: SeanSeanSean on March 27, 2007, 06:02:51 PM

Title: Final flashback
Post by: SeanSeanSean on March 27, 2007, 06:02:51 PM
The final flashback has been posted on Youtube. I had'nt seen it for a long time. Still waiting for the NTSC DVD, BTW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEburTOCe68

So there might be something to the ménage à trois theory, after all.
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: Tuco the ugly on March 27, 2007, 07:02:59 PM
Leone directing a romantic comedy wasn't a so crazy idea now that I think...
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: The Firecracker on March 27, 2007, 07:16:49 PM
Seems like somebody is attempting to put the whole film up on youtube for those poor unfortunate region 1 folks.


Shoulda listened to me years ago and gotten yourself a region free dvd player. Now the wait is over as of June.
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: Sonny on March 27, 2007, 09:23:52 PM
Seems like somebody is attempting to put the whole film up on youtube for those poor unfortunate region 1 folks.


Shoulda listened to me years ago and gotten yourself a region free dvd player. Now the wait is over as of June.

(all hail..) thanks for rubbing it in.  And right, the wait will be over soon. 
THEN what will you have to gloat about?
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: marmota-b on March 29, 2007, 05:01:02 AM
It was removed! And I didn't see it with sound yet! :'(
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: The Firecracker on March 29, 2007, 11:49:25 AM

THEN what will you have to gloat about?

 
My german box set of FAFDM and FOD. In all it's wooden glory! Complete with pocket watch! NYAH! NYAH!
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: marmota-b on March 29, 2007, 11:55:27 AM
My german box set of FAFDM and FOD. In all it's wooden glory! Complete with pocket watch! NYAH! NYAH!

I don't know why, but this brought me memories of something on a German DVD I saw pictures from online... cannot remember what it was. >:( I'm talking about it because I saw there it was also in Czech... I have a feeling it was a SW, but I'm not sure. >:( That's terrible when I forget things...
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: Leone Admirer on April 03, 2007, 04:42:20 PM

My german box set of FAFDM and FOD. In all it's wooden glory! Complete with pocket watch! NYAH! NYAH!

Oh yes, I love my wooden box.  O0
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: The Firecracker on April 16, 2007, 03:12:00 PM
Oh yes, I love my wooden box.  O0


cool. There is only about 20,000 or so in the world. we're one of the elite!
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: Leone Admirer on April 16, 2007, 03:15:53 PM
I didn't know that. I love my wooden box more now  O0
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: The Firecracker on April 17, 2007, 12:10:54 PM
I didn't know that. I love my wooden box more now  O0


The number is on the sticker stuck to the bottom of the box.

did you keep the sticker?

Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: Leone Admirer on April 17, 2007, 12:19:09 PM
Yep, mines number 10671. Whats yours?
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: The Firecracker on April 17, 2007, 06:25:30 PM
Yep, mines number 10671. Whats yours?

07197
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: Banjo on April 18, 2007, 01:31:35 AM

Complete with pocket watch! NYAH! NYAH!
If it chimed i would have the wooden box also.A great shame! :'(
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: Silenzio on April 18, 2007, 04:42:55 PM
THEN what will you have to gloat about?

a lot of sws don't have r1 releases, i only own like fifteen spaghettis and I have:

Death Rides a Horse (widescreen)
Death Sentence (only version)
The Great Silence (better picture quality, italian audio)
and, of course, Fistful of Dynamite

all foreign dvds.
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: geoman-1 on May 05, 2007, 08:45:43 AM
I didn't know that. I love my wooden box more now  O0
My ex had a wooden box. But that discussion is for another day :-\
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: dave jenkins on May 08, 2007, 08:19:21 AM
Splinters? ;D
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: Novecento on February 11, 2018, 06:35:17 PM
Here's a very interesting anecdote from Morricone regarding the reason for the shortening of the ending:

Quote
Durante una proiezione privata di Giù la testa “quando vide mio cognato che si era alzato, mancavano cinque minuti, decise di tagliare il finale. L’edizione italiana di Giù la testa è stata tagliata da Sergio per quell’alzata di mio cognato”.

Someone over at the SWDb found it in this article:

http://www.ilgiornale.it/news/spettacoli/sergio-leone-voleva-togliermi-finale-pugno-dollari-1278157.html
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: drinkanddestroy on February 11, 2018, 06:49:26 PM
thanks, but can you please translate?  :-*
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: noodles_leone on February 12, 2018, 03:15:33 AM
According to Google translate:

Quote
During a private screening of Duck You Sucker "When he saw my brother-in-law who had stood up, it was five minutes, he decided to cut the ending. The Italian edition of Giù La Testa was cut by Sergio for that rise of my brother-in-law ".
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: dave jenkins on February 12, 2018, 12:49:04 PM
Sounds like chat show BS to me.
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: Novecento on February 14, 2018, 09:46:56 AM
What's interesting is that only the French release seems to have contained the full flashback. Given the meticulousness with which Leone prepared the French version, one can only assume that he wanted the flashback in there. This then begs the question about why it wasn't then in the Italian release. Did Leone have to bow to external pressures beyond his control or did he indeed remove it himself and then have a change of heart when it came to the French release?
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: dave jenkins on February 14, 2018, 11:16:24 AM
This then begs the question about why it wasn't then in the Italian release. Did Leone have to bow to external pressures beyond his control or did he indeed remove it himself and then have a change of heart when it came to the French release?
Leone, knowing his fame would outlive him, prepared such conundrums for his future fans so they'd have something to discuss on chat boards. He was more than a film director: a visionary, a seer, a guru.
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: cigar joe on February 14, 2018, 05:40:19 PM
Leone, knowing his fame would outlive him, prepared such conundrums for his future fans so they'd have something to discuss on chat boards. He was more than a film director: a visionary, a seer, a guru.

The Zeus of an Olympian West...  ;)
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: dave jenkins on March 06, 2018, 04:17:13 PM
Savant covers the new BD from Kino: https://trailersfromhell.com/a-fistful-of-dynamite-duck-you-sucker/

Unhappily, he takes the opportunity to share his "understanding" of the film. Savant has bought into the silly notion that Mallory betrayed Nolan because of the girl. This is idiotic for a number of reasons: it isn't necessary that Nolan was betrayed by anyone--he was seen by everyone handing out seditious materials in pubs, for fuck sake! Also, the idea does violence to the simple symmetry of the plot: Mallory doesn't take revenge on Doc V because he isn't going to repeat the mistake he made with Nolan. In both cases, the betrayer did what he did as a result of torture, and Mallory now knows that such a person should be pitied rather than punished. Mallory feels guilty over Nolan's death, because he took vengeance when he shouldn't have--not because he betrayed Nolan for stealing his girl. The final flashback reveals an Edenic time when Mallory, Nolan, and the Girl existed in a perfect ménage à trois. Not only did Mallory and Nolan share the Girl, they were queer for each other. Politics fucked it all up. The message of the film: politics fucks everything up; don't let it interfere with friendships, which are more essential.
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: noodles_leone on March 06, 2018, 08:25:36 PM
Of course. It isn’t something the movie is particularly ambiguous about. I don’t know why we repeatedly have to go through this. There are actual messy plot points in DYS, this isn’t one of them.
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: drinkanddestroy on March 06, 2018, 09:03:30 PM
Why do you think the two men are fucking?

They’re sharing the girl, that’s all (and creepy enough)
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: noodles_leone on March 07, 2018, 01:36:01 AM
"In the same day, she cleaned my father's ass and licked mine", Creepy Drink.
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: stanton on March 07, 2018, 02:00:09 AM
Btw Savant also gives Nolan the Sean forename. I just don't remember what "our board theory" about that is, but is there the slightest proof that he is really called Sean?
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: Novecento on March 07, 2018, 06:55:56 AM
Posters over at blu-ray.com are reporting that this contains the audio errors of the MGM disc  :(
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: drinkanddestroy on March 07, 2018, 08:56:06 AM
Btw Savant also gives Nolan the Sean forename. I just don't remember what "our board theory" about that is, but is there the slightest proof that he is really called Sean?

I have heard the theory that the lyrics “Sean Sean Sean” are for the three “Seans” - Nolan is Sean, and Sean is also the Irish version of John’s and Juan’s names

Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: Novecento on March 07, 2018, 09:47:23 AM
The final flashback reveals an Edenic time when Mallory, Nolan, and the Girl existed in a perfect ménage à trois.

Leone's take (from Simsolo's "Conversation" book) was indeed that they shared the same girl and this wasn't just about liberalism and free love but also that the girl was symbolic of the revolution that they wanted to embrace. There's indeed nothing about falling out over the girl.

I have heard the theory that the lyrics “Sean Sean Sean” are for the three “Seans” - Nolan is Sean, and Sean is also the Irish version of John’s and Juan’s names

That's really far-fetched IMO

What's interesting is that only the French release seems to have contained the full flashback. Given the meticulousness with which Leone prepared the French version, one can only assume that he wanted the flashback in there. This then begs the question about why it wasn't then in the Italian release. Did Leone have to bow to external pressures beyond his control or did he indeed remove it himself and then have a change of heart when it came to the French release?

His comments in Simsolo suggest that he was upset that it had been cut in most territories. So whatever the reason for Leone removing it from the Italian version, he clearly wasn't happy about it being removed in the end and wanted it back in.
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: dave jenkins on March 07, 2018, 10:24:48 AM
Btw Savant also gives Nolan the Sean forename. I just don't remember what "our board theory" about that is, but is there the slightest proof that he is really called Sean?
The movie doesn't name him at all. The only warrant for calling him "Nolan" comes from the screenplay (reportedly--I have never seen it). That's all the screenplay calls him. The idea that Nolan is "Sean" is a complete fabrication.
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: dave jenkins on March 07, 2018, 10:27:54 AM
Posters over at blu-ray.com are reporting that this contains the audio errors of the MGM disc  :(
As far as I can make out, besides the addition of supplementary materials (e.g. an Alex Cox commentary sitting beside the Frayling one), this disc is identical to the MGM. (PQ and audio is exactly the same).
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: dave jenkins on March 07, 2018, 10:40:19 AM
I have heard the theory that the lyrics “Sean Sean Sean” are for the three “Seans” - Nolan is Sean, and Sean is also the Irish version of John’s and Juan’s names
You "heard" it in the SL Encyclopedia, where it is known as the My Three Seans theory:
Quote
Sean, Sean, Sean.” Refrain sung in the DYS theme, a suggestion of Carla Leone’s. Some feel that the name refers to Mallory’s Irish friend, called Nolan in the script. This seems less persuasive than the idea that Coburn is actually Sean. The many references in the film to Coburn as John are easily explained, as John is the Anglicized form of Sean. For example, the newspaper article that identifies Coburn's character as John Mallory may have had an editorial policy to render all Irish names as English ones. Or Sean may have even used John as an alias while on the run. Clearly, Sean uses John with Juan because he knows the peasant will be more familiar with that form of the name. The crucial fact regarding this matter is the lyric added to the music by Carla Leone: "Sean, Sean, Sean." If we did not have SL's other movies, and had only DYS to go by, we might possibly be tempted to imagine that these words refer to the dead friend. But we do have the other movies, and so know that Leone NEVER used music in this way. By the time of OUATITW, SL (in collaboration with Morricone) had developed a fairly consistent approach to film scoring, one that borrowed from operatic techniques. Specifically, he assigned leitmotifs to each of the major characters in his Once Upon a Time trilogy. This is easily seen in OUATITW, where Jill, Cheyenne, and even Morton get their own themes. Harmonica and Frank share a theme, or rather, both are identified by complementary phrases that combine to form a single theme that is only revealed in its entirety at the final gundown. In DYS the two main characters certainly get their themes: Juan gets the one that is sometimes called (by Frayling) "The March of the Beggars." The character played by Coburn gets the "Sean, Sean, Sean" theme. That is HIS theme, and it always plays when he is present on screen or just about to appear (there are two exceptions, the first at the very beginning of the film where the motif serves as foreshadowing, the second at the end after the explosion as a kind of memorial for the dearly departed). This theme is not restricted to thoughts of Ireland, or of the dead friend. The music is always with Coburn whatever he is doing or thinking. It is, in fact, an element of his character. So it is unlikely that a dead character who we only see in flashback is the focus of one of the two major musical motifs of the picture. It seems more logical that the motif should be seen as applying to Coburn, and that it is referring to him by name. That having been said, it makes sense that John/Sean's friend might also be called Sean ("They Shared a Revolution, A Woman . . . And a Name!") for the reasons stated above. There is an obvious parallel between the two revolutions and the two friendships, and that parallel is reinforced if the first friendship is between Sean and Sean and the second between John and John. And since Sean and John are variants of the same name (as are Jean, Jan, Johan et. al.) the secret title of DYS could be "My Three Seans." That would mean that the "Sean, Sean, Sean" lyric is not referring to any one person: the repetition actually names each of three characters in turn. And Morricone's score supports this: after the Mesa Verde job, which ends with a complete presentation of "The March of the Beggars" theme, that theme almost disappears from the movie (it recurs once after Juan has killed Governor Jamie). Instead, Juan begins to be associated with the more melancholy passage from the main DYS theme. It is the main DYS theme that contains (elsewhere) the "Sean, Sean, Sean" motif, so John and Juan become musically connected. One more thought on the Sean/John issue: the use of the dual names may be yet another tip of the hat to John Ford, who claimed to have been born Sean O'Feeney, and took on a new identity after traveling a considerable distance from the place of his birth (Portland, ME). The change of "Sean" to "John" is therefore a venerable American film tradition, one SL was aware of.
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: dave jenkins on March 16, 2018, 04:23:39 AM
Why do you think the two men are fucking?
We have Warbeck's take on the final exchange between Mallory and Nolan:
Quote
If you actually think it and put yourself properly into the situation, for some reason the eyes telegraph the intent of what's going on without any dialogue...


...if you remember the one I did with James Coburn in A FISTFUL OF DYNAMITE; we had to do a whole complicated conversation with no words, where he has to tell me with his eyes that has to kill me because of the politics. And my eyes have to say "I want you to kill me and I understand why you have to kill me. I still love you as my best mate and friend. Please kill me. You have to." So he shoots me and in my last few seconds of dying, my eyes say "I forgive you, you had to do it." And he's saying "You're dying with my love." We had to do all that stuff and I thought this would never come over. I think probably the highest compliment I ever had in my life was in the Camden Town food market one day when one of the stall boys cried out (falls into mock barrow boy accent) "Oi! Dave! You're in that film!" And I said "Oh, yes, yes, yes," and he said, "that was brilliant that sequence." And he told me what I just told you and I was flabbergasted and I said "Oh, you've read the book or something?" and he said "No, no! That was brilliant that. It was really good that you could do that without words."

http://wconnolly.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/david-warbeck-acting-without-words-on.html

"You're dying with my love." Male sexual love is necessarily about penetration. Butt-fucking may only be a gateway activity for these two. Nothing is more effective penetration than a bullet. Mallory fucks Nolan to death.

Remember, the flashbacks are not necessarily actual memories; they likely represent mental states in which past events have been idealized (the slo-mo suggests this). The girl doesn't have to be literally present: she can be the personification of Irish freedom and/or the embodiment of the Mallory-Warbeck relationship. They express their love for each other through her.
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: Novecento on March 16, 2018, 06:08:07 AM
We have Warbeck's take on the final exchange between Mallory and Nolan:

Yes, but it's very clearly platonic.
Title: Re: Final flashback
Post by: drinkanddestroy on March 16, 2018, 11:54:52 AM
We have Warbeck's take on the final exchange between Mallory and Nolan:
http://wconnolly.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/david-warbeck-acting-without-words-on.html

"You're dying with my love." Male sexual love is necessarily about penetration. Butt-fucking may only be a gateway activity for these two. Nothing is more effective penetration than a bullet. Mallory fucks Nolan to death.



 
 ;D

You are one sick fucker!!!