Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Other Films => Topic started by: Banjo on May 26, 2007, 08:04:24 AM



Title: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: Banjo on May 26, 2007, 08:04:24 AM
A great funny but violent sw and heres Arizona Colts review:-

7 GUNS FOR THE MACGREGORS from Duccio Tessari is a fast, funny somewhat lighthearted western which features a family of Scotsmen who have 7 sons who get into much trouble when they try to sell horses in another town which end up being stolen by a mexican bandit gang. There're so many great and memorable sequences here. The opening is hilarious as a gang of horse theives attempt to steal the Macgregors horses while the sons are away but end up being wiped out by the old folks inside the house. Lots of action here-fistfights, shootouts, a train robbery and a finale featuring a seige on a fortress with the Macgregor sons trapped inside make for a highly entertaining 90 minutes. This copy was fullscreen and had greek subs. The quality was good.


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: Arizona Colt on May 26, 2007, 03:52:23 PM
The new Italian DVD is excellent quality however, 6 minutes in, the english track is out of sync for about three minutes. The first sequel aint bad either. :)


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: O'Cangaceiro on June 27, 2008, 11:30:20 PM
I saw this movie when I was ten years old and I still remember some of the scenes (the bad bandit Santillana -Leo Anchoriz-; the MacGregors' family cannon named either Queen Isabella or Queen Anne; and lots of silly fighting . And I still remember Morricone's score. Is there any worthwile version around in DVD? I wouldn't mind adding it to my evergrowing SW collection.


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: Banjo on June 28, 2008, 01:55:24 PM
Get the disc AC mentions, its excellent .This movie is criminally neglected. :'(


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: Groggy on June 28, 2008, 05:20:16 PM
I like the main title march, I haven't the slightest clue what they're supposed to be singing though. ;D Haven't seen the film, however.


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: Arizona Colt on June 28, 2008, 05:39:09 PM
The first two films are a lot of fun. I think I prefer the first entry just a little over the second film but the first sequel appears to have had an even bigger budget considering the bigger action scenes involving the trains. The oldsters featured in these movies are a riot and enjoyable to watch. The opening to SEVEN GUNS is classic as a gang of Mexican bandits assault the MacGregor home after the younger boys have all left but the old folks prove more than a match for the attacking horde of bandits led by Fernando Sancho. An early brand of SW comedy that doesn't go overboard with it like later 70s entries. I enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would. Very successful both here and in its native Italy. I've never seen the third film MORE DOLLARS FOR THE MACGREGORS (1970) or if it is even a real sequel to the first two pictures.


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: O'Cangaceiro on August 07, 2011, 01:07:19 PM
I like the main title march, I haven't the slightest clue what they're supposed to be singing though. ;D Haven't seen the film, however.

I have spent countless hours trying to decypher The Mac Gregor's March, which seems to be sung in some sort of ItalScotGlish dialect that only I Cantori Moderni de Alessandroni  seem to speak and understand ;) :D. I admit this has become some sort of an obsession which lasts over 40 years by now. Here is what I think they are singing, so far. Perhaps another Morricone fan can add to the blanks/correct etc. as approrpiate? Thanks.  ;D

Update:
OK, never mind what I think they are singing. Thank you for your interest (or lack thereof).


If anyone wants to give it a try, here are some hints. I have been using the VLC Media Player and headphones, selecting only the left audiotrack (to remove the annoying drum as much as possible), then using the equalizer to get the best voice clarity, then I click playback-slower and play the tine at 66% to 50% of its normal speed, which makes it easier to understand what they say,

If everything else fails to somplete the project, I think tha as a last resource I should try to find Mr. Alessandroni's e-mail address and ask him direcly.  :-\ >:D


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: Groggy on August 07, 2011, 03:36:54 PM
I appreciate the effort. ;D Maybe next we can try and decipher the songs from the '68 Charge of the Light Brigade.


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 07, 2011, 09:07:12 PM
i heard the 'March of the Macgregors' on the cd called something like the  'Legendary Italian Westerns' (its volume 2, all morricone songs). that song cracks me up... so did Ennio compose the Italian lyrics and they were translated into English? or did someone else compose em entirely?


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: Groggy on August 08, 2011, 10:28:35 AM
I would doubt Ennio did the lyrics, but I couldn't find any helpful info online. I have that same CD so maybe I can check after work.


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: O'Cangaceiro on August 08, 2011, 10:40:11 AM
Here is a link to Mac Gregor's March. You folks may want to listen to it and judge if I got the lyrics right or not. If you think that some lines should be changed (or if you picked up some of the words I didn't), please feel free to make corrections in the version I posted.   :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5JQ1JTsJ4k



Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 08, 2011, 03:22:49 PM
Groggy: i had the same question with the songs sung by Peter Tevis (or Tavis?), such as "A GRINGO LIKE ME" which are also on that cd. also "Lonesome Billy." i'd wonder if Tevis or someone else composed those lyrics? and on the italian version of those movies, were those songs on there with English lyrics or Italian? (i have never seen any SW's other than Leone's; the only reason i know anything about those songs is from that cd. most of the non-leone stuff  on there is crap... in the book SPAGHETTI WESTERNS, Frayling writes something to the effect of Morricone was not the greatest Western composer other than on Leone films (at least until the point the book was written, in the early 80's I believe). judging from the VERY LIMITED stuff i heard on that cd, I would have to agree with Frayling


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: O'Cangaceiro on August 09, 2011, 03:02:15 AM
in the book SPAGHETTI WESTERNS, Frayling writes something to the effect of Morricone was not the greatest Western composer other than on Leone films (at least until the point the book was written, in the early 80's I believe). judging from the VERY LIMITED stuff i heard on that cd, I would have to agree with Frayling

If Frayling wrote this, then (to put it politely) I strongly disagree with his view. Listen to soundtracks of SWs like Compaņeros, Il Mercenario, Tepepa, The Big Gundown, Run Man Run (according to Sollima, this is a Morricone's composition although Nicolai signed it as his), My Name is Nobody, Faccia a Faccia, Up the Mac Gregors, Ando for Roof a Sky Full of Stars, Guns for San Sebastian, Two Mules for Sister Sara...just to name a few, and you will see what I mean. There is magic in that man's music. Yes, there were many excellent Italian composers of SW soundtracks in the 60s & 70s, like Bruno Nicolai, Stelvio Cipriani, Benedetto Ghiglia, Nora Orlandi, Francesco de Masi, Carlo Rustichelli, Piero Piccioni, Lallo Gori, Luis Enriquez Bacalov, and many others, but to me the Morricone's scores are amongst the greatest. I may not be Frayling, but I have been listening at SWs scores for over 40 years.

Back to the original question, I am unsure on who wrote the lyrics for some of the SWs themes, but I doubt very much they were made by people who were born and/or lived in the US, or the UK, or in any other English speaking country.


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: stanton on August 09, 2011, 05:47:25 AM
Maybe someone should first check what Frayling actually wrote.

At least the scores he wrote for Leone (including Nobody) are the best and most varied. Followed by those for Corbucci (except the last 2, which are pretty lazy), then Sollima, then the rest he did in the SW realm, which is not as impressive and not as remarkable. But also not bad compared to usual SW score.
Other composers have also done some great work in the genre.


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: O'Cangaceiro on August 09, 2011, 10:17:17 AM
Maybe someone should first check what Frayling actually wrote.

At least the scores he wrote for Leone (including Nobody) are the best and most varied. Followed by those for Corbucci (except the last 2, which are pretty lazy), then Sollima, then the rest he did in the SW realm, which is not as impressive and not as remarkable. But also not bad compared to usual SW score.
Other composers have also done some great work in the genre.

I don't disagree with that, and maybe (or maybe not) Leone and Morricone's personal friendship had something to do with it. Clearly, the scores he wrote for the Leone films (let's not forget about OUATIA) are quite varied, but so are The Big Gundown, The Mission, And for Roof a Sky Full of Star, Run Man Run, Novecento, Sacco e Vanzetti, etc (yes, I know some are not Westerns, but I am talking about Morricone's scores in general). I suppose that it also depends on how much they paid him for his work, or if they wanted exclusive rights to the score. Let us remember that some Morricone & Nicolai scores are played in more than one film; for example, the soundtrack of Sette Donne Per I Mac Gregor contains themes from A Fistful of Dollars and Le Pistole Non Discutono.

Back to the original issue, I am still curious to find out if more people hear the same words as I do in the Mac Gregor's March song.


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: Groggy on August 09, 2011, 10:31:10 AM
Maybe someone should first check what Frayling actually wrote.

At least the scores he wrote for Leone (including Nobody) are the best and most varied. Followed by those for Corbucci (except the last 2, which are pretty lazy), then Sollima, then the rest he did in the SW realm, which is not as impressive and not as remarkable. But also not bad compared to usual SW score.
Other composers have also done some great work in the genre.

I don't know. I'd say Death Rides a Horse is one of his best non-Leone scores.


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 09, 2011, 11:02:41 AM
when i get back home I will check out the book again and quote Frayling's exact words


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: stanton on August 09, 2011, 02:46:55 PM
I don't know. I'd say Death Rides a Horse is one of his best non-Leone scores.

I think it is nothing special, just like the film.

There was this disharmonious riding theme, apart from that I remember nothing.

I personally also like his 2 Provvidenza scores. Some may also mention Tessari's Ringo films, but that's more conventional sounding stuff imo.


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 14, 2011, 09:51:01 PM
ok, here are Frayling's exact words, from the very last sentence on p. 165 of Spaghetti Westerns, which, let's remember, was published in 1981 :

"Since the 'Dollars' trilogy, Morricone's work for other directors -- over thirty-five Westerns, and many more soundtracks in other genres -- has seldom matched up to his Leone scores, in either invention or appropriateness -- notable exceptions being the Pontecorvo films The Battle of Algiers and Queimada, and Bertolucci's 1900. In fact, some of Morricone's musical themes and ideas, after rejection by Leone, tend to turn up  -- re-arranged by Bruno Nicolai -- in other Italian Westerns where they simply become obtrusive. Although more than one music critic has categorised Ennio Morricone as a ' "B" feature musician', it seems clear that the relationship between director and composerin this particular case proved unusually fruitful, on a par with the relationships between Franju and Jarre, Truffaut and Delerue, Fellini and Rota, or Demy and Legrand."


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 14, 2011, 09:59:09 PM
I would doubt Ennio did the lyrics, but I couldn't find any helpful info online. I have that same CD so maybe I can check after work.

I just checked that cd booklet. (Unfortunately, they do not write the full song lyrics, but) it says that the lyrics to March of the MacGregors were by Maurizio Attanasio; the lyrics to A Gringo like Me were by Carol Danell; th lyrics to Lonesome Billy were by Peter Tavis (who was also the vocalist for Loneseome Billy and A Gringo Like Me)


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: Groggy on August 15, 2011, 06:36:10 AM
"Since the 'Dollars' trilogy, Morricone's work for other directors -- over thirty-five Westerns, and many more soundtracks in other genres -- has seldom matchged up to his Leone scores, in either invention or appropriateness -- notable exceptions being the Pontecorvo films The Battle of Algiers and Queimada, and Bertolucci's 1900. In fact, some of Morricone's musical themes and ideas, after rejection by Leone, tend to turn up  -- re-arranged by Bruno Nicolai -- in other Italian Westerns where they simply become obtrusive. Although more than one music critic has categorised Ennio Morricone as a ' "B" feature musician', it seems clear that the relationship between director and composerin this particular case proved unusually fruitful, on a par with the relationships between Franju and Jarre, Truffaut and Delerue, Fellini and Rota, or Demy and Legrand."

Well, I think most would agree that it's very hard for Morricone to reach his work for Leone. But he did have some great scores independent of Sergio: Death Rides a Horse, The Big Gundown, A Professional Gun, Investigation of a Citizen Above Suspicion, The Battle of Algiers, The Mission, Cinema Paradiso, just off-hand. That he achieved a unique level of creative synthesis with Leone is undeniable; to say he's just a "B feature musician" is demeaning and false.


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on August 15, 2011, 06:50:30 AM
Well, I think most would agree that it's very hard for Morricone to reach his work for Leone. But he did have some great scores independent of Sergio: Death Rides a Horse, The Big Gundown, A Professional Gun, Investigation of a Citizen Above Suspicion, The Battle of Algiers, The Mission, Cinema Paradiso, just off-hand. That he achieved a unique level of creative synthesis with Leone is undeniable; to say he's just a "B feature musician" is demeaning and false.

I don't think I have seen any pre-1981 non-Leone films with Morricone scores other than Two Mules for Sister Sara, so I cannot personally agree or disagree with Frayling's statement.


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: dave jenkins on August 15, 2011, 09:57:41 AM
He would probably not make such a statement today. In fact, if pressed, he might be willing to retract or modify the statement. Morricone's rep has skyrocketed since '81.


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: O'Cangaceiro on August 15, 2011, 11:31:13 AM
He would probably not make such a statement today. In fact, if pressed, he might be willing to retract or modify the statement. Morricone's rep has skyrocketed since '81.

That would be the fair thing to do, IMO.


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: Groggy on August 15, 2011, 12:59:52 PM
That would be the fair thing to do, IMO.

Nah. If he believes it he oughtn't modify his opinion to agree with everyone else.


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: O'Cangaceiro on August 15, 2011, 06:31:52 PM
Nah. If he believes it he oughtn't modify his opinion to agree with everyone else.

Sure. Like everybody else, Mr. Frayling is entitled to his opinion. But when Il Maestro conducts a live performance be it in Chile, or in Spain, or in the US, or in Poland, or in Italy (you name it) and the theatres are full, perhaps there is something special in his music regardless of what one person's opinion may be. And let us remember that even today the biggest Morricone hits are still pre-1981 (Ecstasy of Gold, Once Upon a Time in the West, etc).

Like Frayling's, this is just my opinion.  :D ;)


Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on December 07, 2012, 03:08:53 AM
Sure. Like everybody else, Mr. Frayling is entitled to his opinion. But when Il Maestro conducts a live performance be it in Chile, or in Spain, or in the US, or in Poland, or in Italy (you name it) and the theatres are full, perhaps there is something special in his music regardless of what one person's opinion may be. And let us remember that even today the biggest Morricone hits are still pre-1981 (Ecstasy of Gold, Once Upon a Time in the West, etc).

Like Frayling's, this is just my opinion.  :D ;)


 ;D ;D ;D

Sorry pal, but it is obvious that you either didn't read the quote by Frayling or you completely misunderstood it.
Again, Frayling said (in 1981) that Morricone's non-Leone music has seldom matched his work with Leone.
Now you respond, as some sort of rebuttal to that, by saying that A) Morricone's concerts are packed; and that B) Morricone's most popular hits are his pre-1981 work with Leone.

I'd be really impressed if you can explain how that is in any way, shape, or form,  a rebuttal/response to Frayling's statement.

You either did not read the statement by Frayling or you completely misunderstood it  ::)





Title: Re: Seven Guns for the MacGregors (1965)
Post by: O'Cangaceiro on December 07, 2012, 03:16:19 PM

 ;D ;D ;D

Sorry pal, but it is obvious that you either didn't read the quote by Frayling or you completely misunderstood it.
Again, Frayling said (in 1981) that Morricone's non-Leone music has seldom matched his work with Leone.
Now you respond, as some sort of rebuttal to that, by saying that A) Morricone's concerts are packed; and that B) Morricone's most popular hits are his pre-1981 work with Leone.

I'd be really impressed if you can explain how that is in any way, shape, or form,  a rebuttal/response to Frayling's statement.

You either did not read the statement by Frayling or you completely misunderstood it  ::)





Perhaps if you read the thread from the beginning you will understand. The post where you are quoting me is a response to a few different posts. Specifically, when I mention 1981 I am answering to Dave Jenkins and Groggy's posts from August 15 2011.