Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Once Upon A Time In The West => Topic started by: aaronson on September 22, 2003, 05:40:24 AM

Title: In bed (again)
Post by: aaronson on September 22, 2003, 05:40:24 AM
All the comments from Christopher Frayling, Milius, Carpenter, Bertolucci are rich and interesting

One point : Frayling , making a comment about the first visit of Jill MacBain in Sweetwater ranch says: "now she lays on the bed ...  where she will later make love with  Frank."

On the other side Frayling insists on the scenes rupture when Morton joined Frank in Apache caves,  immediately after Frank has shown the station-toy to Jill.

He says that Leone was lost and seems to mix all.,

I don't agree, Leone was too perfectionist for that.

My thoughts:

1° Jill and Frank did not make love in the Ranch.The bed  is strange ,hanged by iron-chains.
2°  In a bonus there is a trailer , a three-screen one, where Jill talks to Frank and says "I'm coming to met a bandit who get many money" or something like that ... Its a missing scene,.I never saw it before.
3° I think that the sequence is:
   A)  Frank shows the station-toy , discuss with Jill, try to kill her, let Jill a delay (for what ?)
   B)   Frank receives Morton , insults him and pushes him
   C)   Jill visits Frank, talks to him and accepts to make love with him.  
Title: Re:In bed (again)
Post by: aaronson on September 29, 2003, 04:23:09 AM
Finally I understood : in the three-screen trailer Jill speaks to Cheyennes and Frank seems to answer her (it's very quick).

The right explaination is that one:
- Frank appears in the ranch while Jill is searching the wooden station toy.he is very well-shaved
 -He captures Jill and go with her to the Indian caves  
 -There he meets Morton and insults him (he is not shaved). The first sentence said before by Norton is : I know that the woman is there.  
 -He makes love with Jill, many time because later at the saloon she says to Harmonica: I need a very big hot bath.
 - Cheyennes speaking  about the future city says:"station shall be the first thing she will see when she will come back and Harmonica answers"if she will ..".
   Harmonica and Cheyennes both know that she went away (but where?) and they worry about .
 - Then the auction scene....
Thoughts about
1° Franck had a "Jill strategy " before leaving Morton and the train
2° Morton understands that the no-murder of Jill is an act of rebellion
3°Sir Christopher is wrong when he says that Sergio lost time and space or something like that  
4° Sergio is great and perfectly logical
Title: Re:In bed (again)
Post by: Sackett on November 13, 2003, 10:48:56 AM
The bed is in the NAVAHO CLIFFs, I don't believe it is called the Apache caves.
Title: Re:In bed (again)
Post by: Cusser on January 26, 2004, 07:57:43 AM
I agree with Aaronson, DVD commentator has made a mistake; he says it's out of place because Frank and Jill are inside McBain ranch, while Harmonica and Cheyenne's men are standing just outside.  He[s wrong, because Frank has taken Jill to Navajo Cliffs.  As Aaronson said, clean-shaven Frank surprises Jill at McBain's, shows her the station model.  In same clothes, stubbly Frank speaks to Morton at Navajo Cliffs, kicks away his crutch.  Frank (clean-shaven, maybe he shaved for her) does Jill in hanging bed in room with adobe block walls, obviously not the log McBain ranch.  Meanwhile, Harmonica and Frank know that Jill is away from McBain ranch: "if she comes back".  So I don't think there is a continuity error at all, unless one insists that Frank is unable to shave...
Title: Re:In bed (again)
Post by: COLONNA on January 27, 2004, 01:35:30 AM
I he says it's out of place because Frank and Jill are inside McBain ranch, while Harmonica and Cheyenne's men are standing just outside.  

Great ! Obviously it's impossible.
I can't imagine Harmonica and Cheyenne gang " tenir la chandelle".
Thanks Cusser