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Films of Sergio Leone => Other Films => Topic started by: dave jenkins on June 22, 2007, 06:34:50 PM



Title: Great Northfield Minnesota Raid (1972)
Post by: dave jenkins on June 22, 2007, 06:34:50 PM
Coming to R1 DVD is September. Sweet! http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000RJO56Y/ref=nosim?tag=dvdbeaver-20&link_code=as3&creativeASIN=B000RJO56Y&creative=373489&camp=211189


Title: Re: Great Northfield Minnesota Raid (1972)
Post by: cigar joe on June 22, 2007, 07:26:37 PM
I think I saw that, I remember Robertson & Duval but not much else, "The Long Riders" I have already on DVD, I'll have to check it out.


Title: Re: Great Northfield Minnesota Raid (1972)
Post by: Sackett on June 24, 2007, 09:13:53 PM
Saw it at the theater while in high school so long ago.  Thought it was dull at the time, but seemed realistic to me then.


Title: The Great Northfield Minnesota Raid (1972)
Post by: cigar joe on October 08, 2007, 01:50:26 PM
Dir. Phillip Kaufman
starring:
 Cliff Robertson ...  Cole Younger
 Robert Duvall ...  Jesse James
 Luke Askew ...  Jim Younger
 R.G. Armstrong ...  Clell Miller
 Dana Elcar ...  Allen
 Donald Moffat ...  Manning
 John Pearce ...  Frank James
 Matt Clark ...  Bob Younger
 Wayne Sutherlin ...  Charley Pitts
 Robert H. Harris ...  Wilcox
 Jack Manning ...  Heywood
 Elisha Cook Jr. ...  Bunker (as Elisha Cook)
 Royal Dano... Gustavson

This film came out during that beginning of the decline period in Western films where the trend was to make comedies, this seems to lean more towards a comedy. Its got some great vignettes, some work some don't, about the "wonderments" (as Cole Younger calls them) of the industrial age and the comming of the modern world (a baseball game which goes on too long). Its entertaining but its nowhere near the actual story of the James-Younger ganges disasterous raid on Northfield, Minnesota  in 1876.

In this film Cole Younger is the leader of the gang, Jesse a sort of religious nut, and Frank comes off somewhat feeble minded.

Its got some wild plot points that are far from the historical record.

It does have great sets however and Northfield the city is a wonderment (actually Jacksonville, Oregon) it looks spot on believeable.

Contrast this with Walter Hill's "The Long Riders" which is classically stylistic and a far far better film.



Title: Re: The Great Northfield Minnesota Raid (1972)
Post by: dave jenkins on October 08, 2007, 03:54:10 PM
I like this film a lot. Very Altman-like (would make a good double-bill with Buffalo Bill and the Indians). Funny, with occasional touches of ultra-violence.


Title: Re: The Great Northfield Minnesota Raid (1972)
Post by: cigar joe on October 08, 2007, 08:35:15 PM
I like this film a lot. Very Altman-like (would make a good double-bill with Buffalo Bill and the Indians). Funny, with occasional touches of ultra-violence.

Dave check out "The Long Riders" if you haven't yet.


Title: Re: The Great Northfield Minnesota Raid (1972)
Post by: dave jenkins on October 08, 2007, 09:02:10 PM
I saw it on its original run, but I'm gonna give it another look as soon as my copy of the DVD arrives.


Title: Re: The Great Northfield Minnesota Raid (1972)
Post by: Ben Tyreen on October 08, 2007, 10:37:58 PM
  Robertson as Cole worked for me, but Duvall as Jesse James just didn't work.  I liked the supporting cast, but overall I just couldn't get into the film.  There was enough there I'd probably give it another try.

  I do love how Robertson's tinkering with the musical instrument on the street ends up playing a huge role in the robbery...and not in a good way.  ;)


Title: Re: The Great Northfield Minnesota Raid (1972)
Post by: dave jenkins on October 22, 2007, 10:41:57 PM
DVDSavant: http://www.dvdtalk.com/dvdsavant/s2436raid.html


Title: Re: The Great Northfield Minnesota Raid (1972)
Post by: Ben Tyreen on October 23, 2007, 11:23:44 AM
   Good review, but I question sometimes whether they go back and read/edit what they wrote.  It mentions Luke Askew as a brother-in-arm, and then later in the paragraph tells about Askew's character like it's somebody else. :D


Title: Re: Great Northfield Minnesota Raid (1972)
Post by: Groggy on August 12, 2010, 06:51:56 PM
Quote
The Great Northfield Minnesota Raid (1972) is a "revisionist" take on Jesse James and Co. that just doesn't work. It's a remarkably odd and disjointed film that is inconsistent in tone and pace, and ruins a potentially great story with goofy irreverence.

The Missouri State Legislature is about to issue a pardon of Jesse James (Robert Duvall), Cole Younger (Cliff Robertson) and the rest of their gang, but the conniving of the Pinkerton detective agency scrubs that idea. Jesse and Cole then decide to launch one more job: robbing the huge bank at Northfield, Minnesota, "the largest bank west of the Mississippi." Cole and Jesse infiltrate the town, and even get the greedy banker (Robert H. Harris) to help them by convincing townspeople to deposit money in the bank. The robbery itself goes off horribly wrong, and the James-Younger gang splinters as a trigger-happy posse pursues them across Minnesota.

For Philip Kaufman (The Right Stuff), making a "revisionist" Western means being irreverent, goofy and silly, while missing anything resembling a point. In this regard it's closer to nonsense like Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid and The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean than The Wild Bunch: for all the detail and gritty violence, it's really just empty, self-deprecating fluff. The film has its moments but adds up to very little; it seems too impressed with its own "cleverness" to work as a Western, and never seems able to settle on a tone.

Kaufman rehashes the old James legend with little criticism, with one interesting frill: Cole is the brains of the gang, while Jesse is a psychopath who thinks he's still fighting the Civil War. His depiction of Northfield as a den of capitalist depravity is very much of its time, its scheming bankers swindling the dopish townspeople out of money, and inadvertently assisting the soon-to-be bank robbers. The movie lays the Robin Hood schtick on thick, with Jesse killing Yankee soldiers and an abusive landowner, and the Snidley Whiplash-type Pinkertons, but showing Jesse as a murderous nut rather kills the message. But this is only part of the problem.

The film has a broadly comic edge which works only fitfully; the humor is cartoonish and silly, with a distinct absence of wit. A lengthy baseball interlude goes on way too long, albeit with a funny pay-off. We get endless scenes of the greedy, gormless and gullible townspeople swindling or being swindled, and haphazardly tracking down the gang, hanging a few innocent men for being at the wrong brothel. Cole spends a lot of time marvelling over "wonderments" of modern technology: a running gag with a calliope has a nice, plot-appropriate payoff, but otherwise it's an obvious message impressed upon us once too often. There's certainly the potential for laughs but it falls flat: the bleak amorality is ill-served by Keystone Kops goofiness and Kaufman's sophomoric script.

Kaufman's direction is another problem. For all the rich period detail and the occasional stylish moment, the direction is bland and uninteresting. The pacing is awkward, the narrative disjointed, and Bruce Surtees manages only a handful of nice shots. Even the shootouts are poorly staged, with the titular robbery a bland anti-climax. At least The Long Riders, for all its faults, had some well-staged action scenes.

Cliff Robertson is solid, and his thoughtful, subdued portrait of Cole is arguably the film's highlight. Robert Duvall is ridiculously hammy, chewing scenery like a starved Lionel Barrymore. The supporting cast is generally good, with Luke Askew (Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid), R.G. Armstrong (Ride the High Country) and Matt Clark (Jeremiah Johnson) playing Jesse and Cole's cohorts, and Donald Moffat, Royal Dano (Man of the West), and Elisha Cook Jr. (Shane) as various townspeople.

The Great Northfield Minnesota Raid is a bitter disappointment. Perhaps those with more tolerance for oddball goofiness in Westerns would enjoy it more; God knows I've been the minority opinion many times before. Still, it has little of value to offer - not thematic material or interesting violence or humor that's actually funny - and proves an unfortunately poor entry in the Western genre.


http://nothingiswrittenfilm.blogspot.com/2010/08/great-northfield-minnesota-raid.html (http://nothingiswrittenfilm.blogspot.com/2010/08/great-northfield-minnesota-raid.html)


Title: Re: Great Northfield Minnesota Raid (1972)
Post by: The Firecracker on February 27, 2011, 10:10:06 PM
The best Jesse James movie and it's more about Cole Younger.
-----
I think it's the best movie on the subject ( the biggest blunder of the James/Younger gang's career ).
Despite the historical inaccuracies it feels very authentic.
It looks, feels and even tastes like you're there.

Some people on IMDB think the baseball sequence slows the picture down but I think it just adds to its authenticity.

This movie is 100x better than the similar in subject Long Riders.
LR is nothing more than footnotes in the James/Younger history put together to make some sort of followable sequence.
Sure it has a nifty gunfight/massacre at the climax but that's all it has going for it.
That and its stunt casting.



Title: Re: Great Northfield Minnesota Raid (1972)
Post by: Groggy on May 25, 2011, 12:54:36 PM
Sure it has a nifty gunfight/massacre at the climax but that's all it has going for it.
That and its stunt casting.

Yeah but this movie has nothing going for it. Well, maybe Cliff Robertson.


Title: Re: Great Northfield Minnesota Raid (1972)
Post by: dave jenkins on May 25, 2011, 01:11:45 PM
Yeah but this movie has nothing going for it. Well, maybe Cliff Robertson.
As usual the Tin-Eared One ignores the film's obvious musical asset, the calliope.


Title: Re: Great Northfield Minnesota Raid (1972)
Post by: Groggy on May 26, 2011, 07:03:52 AM
It doesn't take Tin Ears to detect a plot device.


Title: Re: Great Northfield Minnesota Raid (1972)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on May 11, 2012, 10:07:12 AM
Just saw this movie for the first time, and liked it; I give it a 7.5/10

------------------------------------

RE: THE BASE BALL SCENE: (yeah,  it was spelled as two words in those days  ;) )
I am an avid follower of baseball history, so I really enjoyed that scene.
 Funny thing: I was recently thinking about how many of the major American sports were around in the days of the Western, and -- before I had ever seen TGNMR or knew about this scene! So I wrote a post about how I wish there was a Western that depicted some of those sports in the early days -- a "Western Sports Movie"; and then cigar joe told me that there are indeed some old base ball scenes in TGNMR! I was delighted to hear that and then moved TGNMR up on my Netflix queue, and just saw it!
So for me, the base ball game definitely did not go on for too long; but if you are not a fan of the sport, I can definitely see how the length of the scene would annoy you.
I had two problems with the base ball scene. Firstly,  I wish that it had been a serious game, rather than a comedic game. And secondly, I didn't like that most of the game is in closeup, with only an occasional long shot. Cuz I am a serious baseball fan, so I wanted to see it shot like a real game.
But I guess the two issues are related, ie. considering that it was really a comedic game, it makes sense that it would be shot in closeup so you can see the comedic shit; whereas a serious game would be shown with more long shots so you can appreciate it as a game. Anyway, while I wish that the game was more serious, it was still quite a thrill to see all the old base ball shit just like I have seen in so many old black and white photographs, and the look if it -- ie.  the uniforms, the lack of equipment, the field, etc. -- really did look just like those countless archive photos.

----------------------------



I am unsure how to classify this one: there was lots of comedic stuff, though i don't know if you would call this a comedy.I generally have no use for Comedy Westerns (actually, I have no interest in Comedies at all). But while I do wish that there would have been less comedy, I enjoyed this movie. The Northfield town set was just terrific.
As for the historical stuff, it didn't bother me cuz long ago I realized that all Westerns (heck, almost every movie, period. But especially Westerns) are 100% bullshit and I should just try to enjoy the movie for its own sake of the movie and not worry about historical accuracy. So I didn't concern myself with the truth or falsity of the characters or incidents involved -- not that I am any historian myself. I just kicked back and had a good time.

IT'S A WONDERMENT!  ;D ;D ;D



Title: Re: Great Northfield Minnesota Raid (1972)
Post by: cigar joe on May 13, 2012, 05:49:44 AM
 O0


Title: Re: Great Northfield Minnesota Raid (1972)
Post by: titoli on September 17, 2012, 10:31:44 PM
Strangely, hadn't seen it before. Probably it didn't have a great distribution. I don't share the criticism towards Duvall: I like his angle on the character, half mad  and impulsive. I've always considered Robertson a a mediocre actor and this movie confirms me in the belief. Still they tried to do something new with the story and it keeps you interested, though maybe you never have the impression of being watching a movie on JJ. 7\10


Title: Re: Great Northfield Minnesota Raid (1972)
Post by: Dust Devil on December 14, 2014, 09:08:51 AM
I'd have to more or less agree with what titoli said, except the part about Robertson: though I also never cherished his performances - here he does well (as does Duvall). I watched this once years ago and didn't like it one bit. Now I sorta let it be what it wants to be, which was a good idea: it doesn't take the JJ thing to any specific point, but the wondering around is kinda entertaining.


6.6/10


Title: Re: Great Northfield Minnesota Raid (1972)
Post by: Dust Devil on December 14, 2014, 09:11:02 AM
This movie is 100x better than the similar in subject Long Riders.

Not for me.