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General Information => General Discussion => Topic started by: cigar joe on August 03, 2007, 03:12:59 PM

Title: New Western - September Dawn
Post by: cigar joe on August 03, 2007, 03:12:59 PM
This Western is to come out at the end of August.


 Jon Voight ...  Jacob Samuelson
 Trent Ford ...  Jonathan Samuelson
 Tamara Hope ...  Emily Hudson
 Jon Gries ...  John D. Lee
 Taylor Handley ...  Micah Samuelson
 Huntley Ritter ...  Robert Humphries
 Krisinda Cain ...  Young Woman
 Shaun Johnston ...  Captain Fancher
 Lolita Davidovich ...  Nancy Dunlap
 Dean Cain ...  Joseph Smith
 Terence Stamp... Brigham Young

Its based on the Francher Wagon Train party of settlers headed for California from Arkansas along the Old Spanish Trail, they stopped in Utah at a place called Mountian Meadows in 1858, and were massacred by the Mormons fressed up as Piautte Indians.

The US Government sent out a party of soldiers to investigate from Ft. Tejon in California, the command was led by Col. Carleton, who has a GBU connection sort of,  after Canby was sent back to the East, Carleton was in command of New Mexico & with his California Column retook "Arizona" and Southern New Mexico, and also raised the Union flag back over Ft. Bliss & Ft. Davis in West Texas.
Title: Re: New Western - September Dawn
Post by: Tucumcari Bound on August 03, 2007, 04:07:37 PM
I'd be interested in seeing this, especially with Jon Voight in the cast. I also like Lolita Dovinivich.
Title: Re: New Western - September Dawn
Post by: The Firecracker on August 03, 2007, 04:09:43 PM

do we know the release date yet?
Title: Re: New Western - September Dawn
Post by: cigar joe on August 03, 2007, 04:29:12 PM
Voight was on one of the news shows this morning promoting, it its commimg out  the 24th I think he said.
Title: Re: New Western - September Dawn
Post by: cigar joe on August 04, 2007, 08:39:18 PM
got this interesting post on imdb.

by Mark Twain and it is found in "Roughing It" 


The persecutions which the Mormons suffered so long--and which they consider they still suffer in not being allowed to govern themselves-- they have endeavored and are still endeavoring to repay. The now almost forgotten "Mountain Meadows massacre" was their work. It was very famous in its day. The whole United States rang with its horrors. A few items will refresh the reader's memory. A great emigrant train from Missouri and Arkansas passed through Salt Lake City and a few disaffected Mormons joined it for the sake of the strong protection it afforded for their escape. In that matter lay sufficient cause for hot retaliation by the Mormon chiefs. Besides, these one hundred and forty-five or one hundred and fifty unsuspecting emigrants being in part from Arkansas, where a noted Mormon missionary had lately been killed, and in part from Missouri, a State remembered with execrations as a bitter persecutor of the saints when they were few and poor and friendless, here were substantial additional grounds for lack of love for these wayfarers. And finally, this train was rich, very rich in cattle, horses, mules and other property--and how could the Mormons consistently keep up their coveted resemblance to the Israelitish tribes and not seize the "spoil" of an enemy when the Lord had so manifestly "delivered it into their hand?"


"A 'revelation' from Brigham Young, as Great Grand Archee or God, was dispatched to President J. C. Haight, Bishop Higbee and J. D. Lee (adopted son of Brigham), commanding them to raise all the forces they could muster and trust, follow those cursed Gentiles (so read the revelation), attack them disguised as Indians, and with the arrows of the Almighty make a clean sweep of them, and leave none to tell the tale ... for this was the mandate of Almighty God."

The command of the "revelation" was faithfully obeyed. A large party of Mormons, painted and tricked out as Indians, overtook the train of emigrant wagons some three hundred miles south of Salt Lake City, and made an attack. But the emigrants threw up earthworks, made fortresses of their wagons and defended themselves gallantly and successfully for five days! ... When the emigrants saw white men coming they threw down their guns and welcomed them with cheer after cheer! And, all unconscious of the poetry of it, no doubt, they lifted a little child aloft, dressed in white, in answer to the flag of truce!


The leaders of the timely white "deliverers" were President Haight and Bishop John D. Lee, of the Mormon Church. Mr. Cradlebaugh, who served a term as a Federal Judge in Utah and afterward was sent to Congress from Nevada, tells in a speech delivered in Congress how these leaders next proceeded:

"They professed to be on good terms with the Indians, and represented them as being very mad. They also proposed to intercede and settle the matter with the Indians. After several hours parley they, having (apparently) visited the Indians, gave the ultimatum of the savages; which was, that the emigrants should march out of their camp, leaving everything behind them, even their guns. It was promised by the Mormon bishops that they would bring a force and guard the emigrants back to the settlements. The terms were agreed to, the emigrants being desirous of saving the lives of their families. The Mormons retired, and subsequently appeared with thirty or forty armed men. The emigrants were marched out, the women and children in front and the men behind, the Mormon guard being in the rear. When they had marched in this way about a mile, at a given signal the slaughter commenced. The men were almost all shot down at the first fire from the guard. Two only escaped, who fled to the desert, and were followed one hundred and fifty miles before they were overtaken and slaughtered. The women and children ran on, two or three hundred yards further, when they were overtaken and with the aid of the Indians they were slaughtered. Seventeen individuals only, of all the emigrant party, were spared, and they were little children, the eldest of them being only seven years old. Thus, on the 10th day of September, 1857, was consummated one of the most cruel, cowardly and bloody murders known in our history."

The number of persons butchered by the Mormons on this occasion was one hundred and twenty.


With unheard-of temerity Judge Cradlebaugh opened his court and proceeded to make Mormondom answer for the massacre. And what a spectacle it must have been to see this grim veteran, solitary and alone in his pride and his pluck, glowering down on his Mormon jury and Mormon auditory, deriding them by turns, and by turns "breathing threatenings and slaughter!"


"Finding that nothing could be done with the juries, they were discharged with a scathing rebuke from the judge. And then, sitting as a committing magistrate, he commenced his task alone. He examined witnesses, made arrests in every quarter, and created a consternation in the camps of the saints greater than any they had ever witnessed before, since Mormondom was born. At last accounts terrified elders and bishops were decamping to save their necks; and developments of the most starling character were being made, implicating the highest Church dignitaries in the many murders and robberies committed upon the Gentiles during the past eight years."


"For the benefit of those who may still be disposed to doubt the guilt of Young and his Mormons in this transaction, the testimony is here collated and circumstances given which go not merely to implicate but to fasten conviction upon them by 'confirmations strong as proofs of Holy Writ:'

"1. The evidence of Mormons themselves, engaged in the affair, as shown by the statements of Judge Cradlebaugh and Deputy U.S. Marshall Rodgers.

"2. The failure of Brigham Young to embody any account of it in his Report as Superintendent of Indian Affairs. Also his failure to make any allusion to it whatever from the pulpit, until several years after the

"3. The flight to the mountains of men high in authority in the Mormon Church and State, when this affair was brought to the ordeal of a judicial investigation.

"4. The failure of the Deseret News, the Church organ, and the only paper then published in the Territory, to notice the massacre until several months afterward, and then only to deny that Mormons were engaged in it.

"5. The testimony of the children saved from the massacre.

"6. The children and the property of the emigrants found in possession of the Mormons, and that possession traced back to the very day after the massacre.

"7. The statements of Indians in the neighborhood of the scene of the massacre: these statements are shown, not only by Cradlebaugh and Rodgers, but by a number of military officers, and by J. Forney, who was, in 1859, Superintendent of Indian Affairs for the Territory. To all these were such statements freely and frequently made by the Indians.

"8. The testimony of R. P. Campbell, Capt. 2d Dragoons, who was sent in the Spring of 1859 to Santa Clara, to protect travelers on the road to California and to inquire into Indian depredations."

- - - - -

This is taken from the Appendix B of Mark Twain's work "Roughing It".
Title: Re: New Western - September Dawn
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 04, 2007, 09:14:36 PM
I remember reading about this. The Mormons savagely slaughtered those immigrants. The local Indian tribe had a part in it also, but the Mormons deliberately tricked the Indians into believing the immigrants were there to take their land and drive them out.

Title: Re: New Western - September Dawn
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 04, 2007, 09:19:47 PM
I just noticed that this will be a movie!  ::)   I'm thrilled to see it.

When I read about this the first time, I couldn't believe how cruel and evil the Mormons behind this massacre were. Unfortunately only one man was sentenced to death due to his part in the massacre because the Army became involved in the Civil War and lost interest in the investigation.
Title: Re: New Western - September Dawn
Post by: The Firecracker on August 28, 2007, 10:30:50 AM
I smiled right through this movie.
Feels like a made for television film and the acting is terrible.
The worst thing about it, by far, was the writing.
We have a romance subplot, that takes up most of the films time, which is as cliched as every historical/romance/disaster picture since "Titanic".
When one of the lovers die at the end (not a spoiler since we all know, from the trailer, everybody dies in this flick) the dialogue is something straight out of the pages from Titanic's script.

"You can't die. You're going to live on and have lot'sa babies and die an old old woman". ::)

Title: Re: New Western - September Dawn
Post by: Sonny on August 28, 2007, 07:17:05 PM

Jon Voight was probably the only good actor.  The movie started well, nothing amazing but it wasn't bad at all at first.

Then it all went to hell when it started focusing on the kids' romance... Historical or not, the plot wouldn't have been so damaged if they had only stuck with the massacre and the different religions as the main themes, instead of the puppy love between two teens from "different worlds".  It was entertaining, though.  Very funny to watch.
Title: Re: New Western - September Dawn
Post by: cigar joe on August 28, 2007, 07:43:51 PM
yea they must have disregarded the Leone rule.