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Films of Sergio Leone => Other Films => Topic started by: Dirty Rat on January 20, 2008, 01:55:24 PM



Title: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: Dirty Rat on January 20, 2008, 01:55:24 PM
This may sound like a really stupid question but I've searched the net and cannot find the answer...... Where did the old footage that they used for this film come from?? It's either made in 1969 to look old or is indeed from the turn of the century. I'm guessing that it was made in 1969 to look old but can you enlighten me please


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: cigar joe on January 20, 2008, 06:03:56 PM
I believe it was made to look old also.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: marmota-b on August 14, 2008, 12:48:07 AM
Butch Cassidy and Sundance Kid - 9/10

MOST OF WHAT FOLLOWS IS TRUE.

It lacked something to be perfect. It seemed a bit vague to me... I liked the comedial part, though. I think it's because I watched it because of it yesterday.
Some great cinematic ideas put into it. Because I watched it after I had read the discussion whether sound destroyed cinema, the begining was definitely spot on.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: Groggy on August 14, 2008, 06:19:31 AM
Butch Cassidy and Sundance Kid - 9/10

MOST OF WHAT FOLLOWS IS TRUE.

It lacked something to be perfect. It seemed a bit vague to me... I liked the comedial part, though. I think it's because I watched it because of it yesterday.
Some great cinematic ideas put into it. Because I watched it after I had read the discussion whether sound destroyed cinema, the begining was definitely spot on.

Can't say I'm a big fan, it's one of those films I find to be too clever for its own good. For me, it really dwindled in the mind after the first viewing.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: marmota-b on August 14, 2008, 09:41:57 AM
Can't say I'm a big fan, it's one of those films I find to be too clever for its own good. For me, it really dwindled in the mind after the first viewing.

Well, it was my first viewing.
And I have to say when Goldman is concerned, Princess Bride is definitely his better work, I mean the book.
But I liked this one nonetheless. It seems to me to be its own kind, and you either like it or not. That's perfectly OK.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: titoli on January 04, 2017, 03:36:30 PM
Thought I had marked this one too, but apparently I didn't. I like it very much, and has been growing on me ever since I saw it in August 1970. The best chase scene ever, probably not only in western. And a light-comedy spirit well-kept till the end. Ross is probably the only case where the original was prettier than the Hollywood version. And, of course, Bacharach: why The Sundance Kid wasn't used for the NY freezes or the cathouse first scene is a mystery. 8/10


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: Moorman on January 04, 2017, 04:19:21 PM
Thought I had marked this one too, but apparently I didn't. I like it very much, and has been growing on me ever since I saw it in August 1970. The best chase scene ever, probably not only in western. And a light-comedy spirit well-kept till the end. Ross is probably the only case where the original was prettier than the Hollywood version. And, of course, Bacharach: why The Sundance Kid wasn't used for the NY freezes or the cathouse first scene is a mystery. 8/10

The chase seen was excellent.  This movie started good, went down hill, then ended good.  My problem is the inclusion of the romance between Butch and and the female character. It bogged the movie down and almost turned it into a romance movie.  The rest of the movie was on point.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: noodles_leone on January 05, 2017, 12:05:12 AM
No, no, no, it's great. It's a movie about nostalgia. It makes me nostalgic about westerns, Wild West, freedom, love, friendship, simpler times, the 60's... It successfully makes you think about an hypothetical golden age for all these things.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: titoli on January 05, 2017, 01:18:12 AM
My problem is the inclusion of the romance between Butch and and the female character.

Uh?


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: cigar joe on January 05, 2017, 05:20:14 AM
I think I gave it about a 7-8, I like some parts of it but not others.

It belongs to a curious quasi comedy sub genre of Westerns, those Westerns that were quasi spoofs that also included what were basically "music videos" The Ballad of Cable Hogue was the best of the lot.

The Music Video Westerns or MVW's

Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid (1969)
The Ballad of Cable Hogue (1970)
The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean (1972)
The Duchess & The Dirtwater Fox (1976)

There may be a few others.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: stanton on January 05, 2017, 05:47:01 AM
Whatever it is, Butch Cassidy is one of the best directed westerns. A little bit to chic for its own good, but a pleasure to watch. It is not one of my favourite movies anymore, but I still hold it in high regard.

Not really a comedy, but with a light comedy touch.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: noodles_leone on January 05, 2017, 07:29:59 AM
It belongs to a curious quasi comedy sub genre of Westerns, those Westerns that were quasi spoofs that also included what were basically "music videos" The Ballad of Cable Hogue was the best of the lot.

The Music Video Westerns or MVW's

Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid (1969)
The Ballad of Cable Hogue (1970)
The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean (1972)
The Duchess & The Dirtwater Fox (1976)

There may be a few others.

Well said.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: titoli on January 05, 2017, 03:51:54 PM
I think I gave it about a 7-8, I like some parts of it but not others.

It belongs to a curious quasi comedy sub genre of Westerns, those Westerns that were quasi spoofs that also included what were basically "music videos" The Ballad of Cable Hogue was the best of the lot.

You gave it 7. I disagree that Cable Hogue is the best of whatever: a boring movie like few. But I want to stress the fact that Cassidy, though kept in a light mood throughout, at last leaves me an impression of sadness like few other movies. BTW the whole story, though given as true, has nothing to do with the real facts around Cassidy and Sundance (and Etta Place). The chase was totally an invention and so how things went in South America, not only Bolivia.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: mike siegel on January 05, 2017, 04:06:15 PM
The Ballad of Cable Hogue was the best of the lot.


I never thought of "music videos", but CABLE surely is terrific. I think Sam could get performances out of actors like (almost) no-one else. Those who don't have antennas for this might consider the film as "boring", others are rewarded with real human beings on the screen, just great (although the film is a few minutes too long.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: titoli on January 05, 2017, 05:25:07 PM
I never thought of "music videos", but CABLE surely is terrific. I think Sam could get performances out of actors like (almost) no-one else. Those who don't have antennas for this might consider the film as "boring", others are rewarded with real human beings on the screen, just great (although the film is a few minutes too long.

Mein Freund,  I consider it boring because that movie is boring. It might have been the best acted movie ever made, it would still be boring. At least for me, who even gave it a second chance. But I won't say that you and CJ and whoever like this movie have no antennas for a boring movie (though CJ gives daily examples). So please do not denigrate other people  about having antennas or whatever: just say that you like it and why. Verstanden?


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: cigar joe on January 05, 2017, 06:29:50 PM
Meine Freund,  I consider it boring because that movie is boring. It might have been the best acted movie ever made, it would still be boring. At least for me, who even gave it a second chance. But I won't say that you and CJ and whoever like this movie have no antennas for a boring movie (though CJ gives daily examples). So please do not denigrate other people  about having antennas or whatever: just say that you like it and why. Verstanden?

I liked it especially for Stella Stevens, maybe you saw an edited version  :o >:D


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: titoli on January 06, 2017, 01:56:40 AM
I liked it especially for Stella Stevens, maybe you saw an edited version  :o >:D

Oh, you smart man. Now you're changing your song. Of course SS is the only reason to watch exclusively her raw skin scenes (the reason why I didn0t give the movie 0/10). But what has this got to do with "light comedy" and the rest of all the crap you  use to exalt it?


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: stanton on January 06, 2017, 02:51:29 AM
Titoli, you give every mediocre western a 7 or 8, so it is kinda consequent that you often don't like those which have, well ... ideas and, well, well ... style


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: cigar joe on January 06, 2017, 03:25:59 AM
I don't like the acapella music for BC&TSDK, nor the music video "Raindrops", nor the balsa wood and cardboard explosion of the baggage car. I like it best from the South American sequences to the end.

I've always read that the biggest mistake Butch and Harry made was posing for their photographs, now that law enforcement had their images it was easier to identify them.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: titoli on January 06, 2017, 06:43:47 AM
I don't like the acapella music for BC&TSDK,

A cappella? Must have missed it.

Quote
I've always read that the biggest mistake Butch and Harry made was posing for their photographs, now that law enforcement had their images it was easier to identify them.

Naaah. In fact there's still a debate if the two died in San Vicente. They died there, of course, but the Pinkertons had nothing to do with it. It was Butch's mistake during their last hold-up to steal also a mule easily identifiable by its brand (as it is shown in the movie too, though it is the only element of truth in the hollywood reconstruction) which lost them. They had a full-throttle activity in South America and the fact that they were yankees did little to help the authorities to identify them and grab them.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: mike siegel on January 06, 2017, 07:16:17 AM
Verstanden?


You learn your German watching old war films?

"Mein Freund"  ??

"And sooner or later you're gonna catch that I'm not your friend!" (Jake Cutter in THE COMANCHEROS)

"You work your side of the street, and I work mine." (Frank Bullitt)


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: titoli on January 06, 2017, 07:46:35 AM

You learn your German watching old war films?

"Mein Freund"  ??

"And sooner or later you're gonna catch that I'm not your friend!" (Jake Cutter in THE COMANCHEROS)

"You work your side of the street, and I work mine." (Frank Bullitt)

Ja, genau. Und nun, raus!


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on January 06, 2017, 08:45:08 AM

You learn your German watching old war films?

"Ze war is now over for you"


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: Dust Devil on January 06, 2017, 12:37:46 PM
''Ich werde ihn Ihnen zeigen... Sehen Sie diese Stadt? Das ist Walter!'' :D


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: mike siegel on January 06, 2017, 12:50:55 PM
"Ze war is now over for you"

Bitte nicht schießen, nicht schießen !!


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: Novecento on January 06, 2017, 02:16:21 PM
I never thought of "music videos", but CABLE surely is terrific. I think Sam could get performances out of actors like (almost) no-one else. Those who don't have antennas for this might consider the film as "boring", others are rewarded with real human beings on the screen, just great (although the film is a few minutes too long.

I DVR'd an HD version of Cable Hogue a while back. While cable TV is not quite blu-ray level, the print seemed to be good which made me wonder why we still don't have a blu-ray of this?

It's interesting to compare Lou Lombardo's work on this with the Wild Bunch.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: mike siegel on January 06, 2017, 02:27:09 PM
Sam almost always supervised the editing anyway. He had learned very fast and then became an A+ Editor himself...

Well Warners is not what it used to be regarding home video releases. And they surely don't care much about films
who didn't make a profit back in the day. PAT GARRETT, HIGH COUNTRY are also badly overdue :(.
But although I believe the world is unfair and too often quite bad, I'm an optimist - I waited soo many
years for my BLOW UP Blu-ray, now 2017 will be the year. Thanks Criterion, finally...


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: cigar joe on January 06, 2017, 06:14:12 PM
A cappella? Must have missed it.

Seriously?, it's quite noticeable, maybe the Italian release had a different soundtrack  :o


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: titoli on January 07, 2017, 12:38:38 AM
Seriously?, it's quite noticeable, maybe the Italian release had a different soundtrack  :o

I have the dvd. I hope you don't maean South American Getaway.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: cigar joe on January 07, 2017, 03:36:19 AM
I have the dvd. I hope you don't maean South American Getaway.

Stuff like this in the first selection https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh6S7ZwmD9I&list=PLTJYb9DVTKjqqS2e2xUk19CmmFpcPcxPL (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh6S7ZwmD9I&list=PLTJYb9DVTKjqqS2e2xUk19CmmFpcPcxPL)


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: noodles_leone on January 07, 2017, 06:01:04 AM
This is the South American Getaway.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: titoli on January 07, 2017, 06:26:35 AM
Stuff like this in the first selection https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh6S7ZwmD9I&list=PLTJYb9DVTKjqqS2e2xUk19CmmFpcPcxPL (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh6S7ZwmD9I&list=PLTJYb9DVTKjqqS2e2xUk19CmmFpcPcxPL)

South American Getaway is not a cappella, as it has a rhythm section plus a piano and a violin. It is rather a vocalized tune.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: mike siegel on January 07, 2017, 07:24:06 AM
Like Bud Spencer in ALTRIMENTI CI ARRABIAMO. That was alla cappella. Penso.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: cigar joe on January 07, 2017, 07:08:09 PM
South American Getaway is not a cappella, as it has a rhythm section plus a piano and a violin. It is rather a vocalized tune.

Whatever you want to call it it was CRAP.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: titoli on January 08, 2017, 12:26:32 AM
Whatever you want to call it it was CRAP.

One of my favourite Bacharach's composition. Apparently you have no antennas for good music.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: cigar joe on January 08, 2017, 04:13:16 AM
Being in a Western it was CRAP along with "Raindrops"  O0  :)


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: stanton on January 08, 2017, 04:31:36 AM
Being in a Western it was CRAP along with "Raindrops"  O0  :)

No, it works very well in the film.

As do the songs in Cable Hogue and the one in Roy Bean.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: titoli on January 08, 2017, 04:35:19 AM
Being in a Western it was CRAP along with "Raindrops"  O0  :)
An Oscar winning song can't be wrong. And what a song. About the other, it rhymes with the light-comedy touch of the sequence. BTW, the bycicle business is one of the few elements of historical truth in the movie.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: mike siegel on January 08, 2017, 04:42:07 AM
It is just a wonderful movie - if one shares the filmmaker's taste: Relying so heavily on music is always risky.  If you don't like Lai's music for A MAN AND A WOMAN or Legrand's for THOMAS CROWN AFFAIR, you'll never appreciate the films as much as others do who love the music.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on January 08, 2017, 02:56:18 PM
musical interludes often screw up a movie. There are some exceptions. IMO, the musical piece in Rio Bravo was great. (The first song "My Rifle, My Pony, and Me." The second one, "Cindy," is awful. But the interlude fits - they are sitting around in the station, basically like prisoners themselves, it makes sense that they would have to pas the time, so they sit around singing. And it's a good song, too.

The Raindrops thing is awful. A 1960's music video stuck in middle of a movie. Awful.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: noodles_leone on January 08, 2017, 06:40:19 PM
Stanton is right in this thread. Mike has a point, also. Drink is as wrong as a Drink.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: mike siegel on January 11, 2017, 05:34:59 PM
Some things I loved about filmmaking from the mid 60s to the mid 70s is stuff like the RAINDROPS sequence. It was very daring and fresh and new. 'hoping that some could relate to it and never mind the others :). I always loved it anyway. To me it was true to life itself: I love women and I had situations like this here and there in my own life (both sides of the story): you going out for a walk with the girl, while the guy she slept with just hours ago is still asleep... It's just an unusual and different, cool and modern film. Love it. Almost every minute and every frame. ALTHOUGH at the very same time, in early / mid 68, two films were shot, that are my all-time number 1 + 2 (WILD BUNCH & EASY RIDER - also OUATITW of course!). BUTCH can never be in my Top 20 because it is not deep enough (which it doesn't want to be anyway), but it is a masterpiece, something that that hasn't been done before, with a great casting choice by Hill (McQueen & Newman - that would have been another - great -film). I love Redford. They did everything right. Great performance. His career was between old school BAREFOOT and "something coming", I think he made the picture.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: cigar joe on January 12, 2017, 03:55:26 AM
Some things I loved about filmmaking from the mid 60s to the mid 70s is stuff like the RAINDROPS sequence. It was very daring and fresh and new. 'hoping that some could relate to it and never mind the others :). I always loved it anyway. To me it was true to life itself: I love women and I had situations like this here and there in my own life (both sides of the story): you going out for a walk with the girl, while the guy she slept with just hours ago is still asleep... It's just an unusual and different, cool and modern film. Love it. Almost every minute and every frame. ALTHOUGH at the very same time, in early / mid 68, two films were shot, that are my all-time number 1 + 2 (WILD BUNCH & EASY RIDER - also OUATITW of course!). BUTCH can never be in my Top 20 because it is not deep enough (which it doesn't want to be anyway), but it is a masterpiece, something that that hasn't been done before, with a great casting choice by Hill (McQueen & Newman - that would have been another - great -film). I love Redford. They did everything right. Great performance. His career was between old school BAREFOOT and "something coming", I think he made the picture.

Put that way I can agree, judge it with the other Music Video Westerns, they are as you say "not deep enough".


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: stanton on January 12, 2017, 05:12:05 AM
Put that way I can agree, judge it with the other Music Video Westerns, they are as you say "not deep enough".

Cable Hogue is not deep enough? You are kidding ...

Same goes for Roy Bean.

All 3 are unusual and intelligent westerns with fine if not excellent directing. And compared with Leone's westerns, Leone does not always win ...


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: noodles_leone on January 12, 2017, 07:43:48 AM
And compared with Leone's westerns, Leone does not always win ...

 
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o

BURN THE WITCH!!!

 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: Moorman on January 17, 2017, 09:40:15 PM
If you eliminate the musical sequences, and tone down the comedy, this would've been a great film.  The basics were there for a great film, but some reason, all that other fluff was deemed more important...


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: stanton on January 18, 2017, 03:11:05 AM
If you eliminate the musical sequences, and tone down the comedy, this would've been a great film.  The basics were there for a great film, but some reason, all that other fluff was deemed more important...

I don't think so. The film works as it is very well.

Butch Cassidy is not really a comedy, but it is a film which tells its story in an interesting combination of seriousness and lightheartedness. And that was established by Bonnie and Clyde, which also mixes a lot of humour into its sad and violent story.

These were things which were not done that much before. Penn's Little Big Man is another superior example for that kind of revisionist westerns. You can call that style cheerful melancholy.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: cigar joe on January 18, 2017, 03:39:50 AM
Quote
Butch Cassidy is not really a comedy, but it is a film which tells its story in an interesting combination of seriousness and lightheartedness. And that was established by Bonnie and Clyde, which also mixes a lot of humour into its sad and violent story.

These were things which were not done that much before. Penn's Little Big Man is another superior example for that kind of revisionist westerns. You can call that style cheerful melancholy.


Whatever you call them they should be put and judged as a separate category of Western.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: Moorman on January 18, 2017, 06:01:07 AM
I don't think so. The film works as it is very well.

Butch Cassidy is not really a comedy, but it is a film which tells its story in an interesting combination of seriousness and lightheartedness. And that was established by Bonnie and Clyde, which also mixes a lot of humour into its sad and violent story.

These were things which were not done that much before. Penn's Little Big Man is another superior example for that kind of revisionist westerns. You can call that style cheerful melancholy.

 Let me be clear on something. For a long time, it was my favorite western.  I believe it was the first i ever saw. Once i saw my first Leone western,  he eliminated those thoughts, lol.  Things that could've been done to Butch and Sundance that would've made it a great western.

1.  Eliminate the whole thing they had going on with the co girlfriend they took everywhere with them.  Just that inclusion turned the whole feel of the movie around, especially the raindrops sequence.

2. By eliminating the co girlfriend thing, they could've fleshed out more interaction in Bolivia with sporadic gunfights while robbing the banks.

3. Added at least one more robbery by his gang before they robbed the train that started the long chase sequence.

4. The ending. For years i've had no problem with the director not showing them getting gunned down, but now i do.  Again, another wasted opportunity by the director.

If the director had done those things, the movie would've been a great movie.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: stanton on January 18, 2017, 06:36:42 AM

Whatever you call them they should be put and judged as a separate category of Western.

I see absolutely no reason for that. There are so many westerns which are very different to others that you need a lot of categories. And being different was more or less the rule in these days.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: stanton on January 18, 2017, 06:39:22 AM
Let me be clear on something. For a long time, it was my favorite western.  I believe it was the first i ever saw. Once i saw my first Leone western,  he eliminated those thoughts, lol.  Things that could've been done to Butch and Sundance that would've made it a great western.

1.  Eliminate the whole thing they had going on with the co girlfriend they took everywhere with them.  Just that inclusion turned the whole feel of the movie around, especially the raindrops sequence.

2. By eliminating the co girlfriend thing, they could've fleshed out more interaction in Bolivia with sporadic gunfights while robbing the banks.

3. Added at least one more robbery by his gang before they robbed the train that started the long chase sequence.

4. The ending. For years i've had no problem with the director not showing them getting gunned down, but now i do.  Again, another wasted opportunity by the director.

If the director had done those things, the movie would've been a great movie.

4 x No

A very, very big No to # 2 and 3 and a big one to # 1 and 4


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: noodles_leone on January 18, 2017, 06:56:10 AM
Let me be clear on something. For a long time, it was my favorite western.  I believe it was the first i ever saw. Once i saw my first Leone western,  he eliminated those thoughts, lol.  Things that could've been done to Butch and Sundance that would've made it a great western.

1.  Eliminate the whole thing they had going on with the co girlfriend they took everywhere with them.  Just that inclusion turned the whole feel of the movie around, especially the raindrops sequence.

2. By eliminating the co girlfriend thing, they could've fleshed out more interaction in Bolivia with sporadic gunfights while robbing the banks.

3. Added at least one more robbery by his gang before they robbed the train that started the long chase sequence.

4. The ending. For years i've had no problem with the director not showing them getting gunned down, but now i do.  Again, another wasted opportunity by the director.

If the director had done those things, the movie would've been a great movie.

You're basically saying you wanted a whole other movie. It wasn't meant to be what you're describing.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: Cusser on January 18, 2017, 07:53:34 AM
Butch Cassidy is not really a comedy, but it is a film which tells its story in an interesting combination of seriousness and lightheartedness. And that was established by Bonnie and Clyde, which also mixes a lot of humour into its sad and violent story.

One could say the same of GBU, which pre-dates those two.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: noodles_leone on January 18, 2017, 08:47:40 AM
One could say the same of GBU, which pre-dates those two.

One could also say the same of most Renoir's films... or any tragic drama play from the 19th to well into the 20th. One could also notice that the authors of such plays often mentioned a little guy called William Shakespeare (1564-1616) as their go to buddy when it comes to mixing seriousness and lightheartedness in a single story. And I'm sure even he stole the idea from much, much older dudes. What I'm saying is: this idea is almost as old as it is common (cliché?) and stating that a particular movie established that canon is ballsy to say the least.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: dave jenkins on January 18, 2017, 10:00:51 AM
1.  Eliminate the whole thing they had going on with the co girlfriend they took everywhere with them.  Just that inclusion turned the whole feel of the movie around, especially the raindrops sequence.
But that would have destroyed the whole Jules and Jim vibe they were going for. It was all about giving a nod to the nouvelle vague.

Quote
4 The ending. For years i've had no problem with the director not showing them getting gunned down, but now i do.  Again, another wasted opportunity by the director
. But that would have destroyed the 400 Blows type ending they were going for. It was all about giving a nod to the nouvelle vague.

The "Raindrops" music video was an homage to Demy. The whole exploration-and-explosion-of-a-Hollywood-genre was congruent with Godard's 60s cinema projects.

So it's a Western for fags. Completely antithetical to the Leone approach.




Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on January 18, 2017, 02:56:37 PM
You're basically saying you wanted a whole other movie. It wasn't meant to be what you're describing.

Like stanton with MY NAME IS NOBODY  ;)


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: cigar joe on January 18, 2017, 03:48:37 PM
Let me be clear on something. For a long time, it was my favorite western.  I believe it was the first i ever saw. Once i saw my first Leone western,  he eliminated those thoughts, lol.  Things that could've been done to Butch and Sundance that would've made it a great western.

1.  Eliminate the whole thing they had going on with the co girlfriend they took everywhere with them.  Just that inclusion turned the whole feel of the movie around, especially the raindrops sequence.

2. By eliminating the co girlfriend thing, they could've fleshed out more interaction in Bolivia with sporadic gunfights while robbing the banks.

3. Added at least one more robbery by his gang before they robbed the train that started the long chase sequence.

4. The ending. For years i've had no problem with the director not showing them getting gunned down, but now i do.  Again, another wasted opportunity by the director.

If the director had done those things, the movie would've been a great movie.

Exactly along the lines of I've been saying all along. Forget Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid and Somebody make a completely serious real story of Butch, Sundance, Kid Curry, Big Nose Curry, “Deaf Charley” Hanks, The Hole in The Wall, Brown's Hole, The Hoot Owl Trail, and The Wild Bunch. It should be a miniseries much like Deadwood to get the whole scope of their activities.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: Moorman on January 18, 2017, 04:38:12 PM
Exactly along the lines of I've been saying all along. Forget Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid and Somebody make a completely serious real story of Butch, Sundance, Kid Curry, Big Nose Curry, “Deaf Charley” Hanks, The Hole in The Wall, Brown's Hole, The Hoot Owl Trail, and The Wild Bunch. It should be a miniseries much like Deadwood to get the whole scope of their activities.


And did you notice that after their girlfriend left Bolivia, THEN, the movie kicked up a notch and became a western again?


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: stanton on January 19, 2017, 03:12:53 AM
And did you notice that after their girlfriend left Bolivia, THEN, the movie kicked up a notch and became a western again?

No, I didn't ... ;)


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: stanton on January 19, 2017, 03:17:10 AM
Like stanton with MY NAME IS NOBODY  ;)

Maybe, but in the case of Nobody the pure slapstick stuff (not the parody stuff) does not connect with the melancholic twilight stuff, while in Butch Cassidy the balance between the disparate elements work very well.


Title: Re: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
Post by: cigar joe on January 19, 2017, 03:51:37 AM
Maybe, but in the case of Nobody the pure slapstick stuff (not the parody stuff) does not connect with the melancholic twilight stuff, while in Butch Cassidy the balance between the disparate elements work very well.

Bull Shit!  ;)