Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Once Upon A Time In The West => Topic started by: archangel on February 19, 2008, 10:59:27 AM



Title: the rusty windmill sfx.......
Post by: archangel on February 19, 2008, 10:59:27 AM
at the beginning (Cattle Corner) are not a recording of a real windmill.
somebody is actually playing something in the studio - a performance, if you will.
just listen, without watching the picture.
(i often do this..)
btw, the whole sound track of this movie, is one of the best montages i've ever heard.
also most of the time, i don't need to see the visuals to follow the story......
there's also something odd about the steam engine sfx.
still figuring that one out.
archie.


Title: Re: the rusty windmill sfx.......
Post by: dave jenkins on February 19, 2008, 03:58:50 PM
at the beginning (Cattle Corner) are not a recording of a real windmill.
somebody is actually playing something in the studio - a performance, if you will.
Which is why the soundtrack albums are all incomplete. Those sound effects at the beginning were not only performed, they were composed. For a soundtrack album of West to be complete, "Cattle Corner" has to be included.


Title: Re: the rusty windmill sfx.......
Post by: cigar joe on February 19, 2008, 05:36:47 PM
Quote
at the beginning (Cattle Corner) are not a recording of a real windmill.

Don't know about that.... didn't there be a story about how when they set the windmill up and it started creaking that the propman wanted to oil it and Leone said if he did he would kill him?

I'm wondering if some of the recordings were made on the set.

The steamengine FX sounds cool though.


Title: Re: the rusty windmill sfx.......
Post by: dave jenkins on February 19, 2008, 11:58:34 PM
Don't know about that.... didn't there be a story about how when they set the windmill up and it started creaking that the propman wanted to oil it and Leone said if he did he would kill him?

I'm wondering if some of the recordings were made on the set.
I'd be very surprised. SL of course followed the usual Italian practice of adding sound in post production. I thought his first use of direct sound ever was of some of Steiger's lines in DYS.


Title: Re: the rusty windmill sfx.......
Post by: Tuco the ugly on February 20, 2008, 12:38:48 AM
SL of course followed the usual Italian practice of adding sound in post production.

Yes, and apparently Jason Robards was very good at this (while the others weren't).


Title: Re: the rusty windmill sfx.......
Post by: cigar joe on February 20, 2008, 04:45:28 AM
Yea I know that. But I remember that quote from one of Frayling's books, I'm saying yes it probably was added post production, but it actually may have been from the windmill. Much like the recorded in a gravel pit gunshots in the films were from actual guns, no?


Title: Re: the rusty windmill sfx.......
Post by: Cusser on February 20, 2008, 12:21:03 PM
I've read what Cigar read.


Title: Re: the rusty windmill sfx.......
Post by: dave jenkins on February 20, 2008, 03:03:49 PM
Okay, here's what Frayling has in Death (283):

Quote
Carlo Simi remembers that 'Some little idiot tried to oil the mechanism of the windmill just before we recorded it. Sergio exploded, because he wanted that irritating sound at all costs!'

The problem with this kind of anecdote is that one can never be sure if the speaker actually witnessed what he remembers, or if he is merely remembering what he was told by others at the time. Did he actually see the guy going up to the windmill with the oil can and Sergio getting mad? If not, his story isn't worth much.

But lets give Carlo the benefit of the doubt. He was actually present in the recording studio when they brought the windmill in; or, he accompanied the sound boys out to the gravel pit when they set up the windmill out there. Whatever. The question then is: was the recording successful? Did they get the kind of sound SL wanted, or did they end up simulating the sound in the studio anyway? I ask, because modern Foley is usually accomplished not by miking the thing on the screen for its sound, but by coming up with a different way of producing a sound that seems more like what the thing should sound like than how it actually sounds when miked.

Without exhaustive recording session notes for West's score, we can't know what was done for sure. Maybe they really did record and mix the actual sound the windmill made . . . but I'm skeptical.


Title: Re: the rusty windmill sfx.......
Post by: Noodles_SlowStir on February 20, 2008, 03:31:48 PM
Not sure.  I want to say I remember having read something that Morricone was influential with the sounds at the beginning of OUATITW including the windmill.  He made the suggestion to Leone to not use music but enhance the sounds of the windmill, water drops, telegraph and so on.  Leone really liked the idea.  Maybe the determination was made before filming, but I would of thought that the sounds were post production.  Not sure if that was in the Once Upon A Time In Italy: The Westerns Of Sergio Leone book ....


Title: Re: the rusty windmill sfx.......
Post by: dave jenkins on February 20, 2008, 05:31:00 PM
Quote
While he was planning the sequence, Leone decided the music that had been written was not right; he would use a complex mix of amplified 'natural' sounds instead. Morricone recalls: There was something very important that I'd told Sergio . . . . [he recounts the musique concrete performance he saw in Florence] . . . I recounted this experience to Sergio, who already had these things in his blood, in his own ideas about silence. (Frayling 283).

In an amazing bit of synchronicity, Morricone suggested an approach that was radical, modern and entirely appropriate to this scene in which Leone was already planning to reference My Darling Clementine (Ford did the shootout at the OK Corral also with sound effects only). It is not entirely clear, but it seems the co-creators hit on this method before the production went to Spain. Nonetheless, it seems unlikely that anything was done about actually recording the sounds until post production.


Title: Re: the rusty windmill sfx.......
Post by: archangel on February 20, 2008, 08:54:45 PM
hi,
one of the steam engine sfx is very weird.
i'll find the cue on the DVD and post the time it occurs.
archie.


Title: Re: the rusty windmill sfx.......
Post by: cigar joe on February 21, 2008, 07:00:03 PM
Let us know what you find weird about it too, I never noticed anything.


Title: Re: the rusty windmill sfx.......
Post by: T.H. on February 21, 2008, 10:50:44 PM
It sounds a lot like the heavy breathing of one Darth Vader. I wouldn't be shocked if Lucas stole the sound and altered it, not that I'm accusing anyone or anything. *Puts down torch*


Title: Re: the rusty windmill sfx.......
Post by: cigar joe on February 22, 2008, 04:26:44 AM
Oh yea, that's the water boiling in the locomotive's steam boiler, its like a pulse, fresh water keeps getting added as the steam boils off. If you ever get a chance try and get up close and personal with a ideling locomotive, they sound really cool!


Title: Re: the rusty windmill sfx.......
Post by: Tuco the ugly on February 22, 2008, 07:59:18 AM
It sounds a lot like the heavy breathing of one Darth Vader. I wouldn't be shocked if Lucas stole the sound and altered it, not that I'm accusing anyone or anything. *Puts down torch*

Apparently he did copy some sounds/rhythms from OUATITW and put them in the original SW trilogy, or at least that's what Leone himself claimed, according to Faryling.


Title: Re: the rusty windmill sfx.......
Post by: Groggy on February 22, 2008, 10:35:20 AM
I always loved the water sound with the train. I'm surprised nobody mentions it.


Title: Re: the rusty windmill sfx.......
Post by: Atlas2112 on February 22, 2008, 10:38:43 AM
Apparently he did copy some sounds/rhythms from OUATITW and put them in the original SW trilogy, or at least that's what Leone himself claimed, according to Faryling.
i remember hearing from somewhere that Lucas spoke with Leone about editing film with music just prior to editing starwars. is that true or am i just hallucinating?


Title: Re: the rusty windmill sfx.......
Post by: Tuco the ugly on February 22, 2008, 10:44:10 AM
i remember hearing from somewhere that Lucas spoke with Leone about editing film with music just prior to editing starwars. is that true or am i just hallucinating?

Who knows, but Faryling says it's true.


Title: Re: the rusty windmill sfx.......
Post by: archangel on February 22, 2008, 06:53:03 PM
It sounds a lot like the heavy breathing of one Darth Vader. I wouldn't be shocked if Lucas stole the sound and altered it, not that I'm accusing anyone or anything. *Puts down torch*

thanks,
that's what i'm hearing.
it sound as if the train is alive and this is its breath.
archie.