Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Other Films => Topic started by: cigar joe on March 14, 2008, 06:39:33 PM



Title: El Dorado (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on March 14, 2008, 06:39:33 PM
Well just hot on the heels of "Rio Bravo" it seems, TCM showed "El Dorado" tonight, perhaps it was a little too soon to be watching this version but I got a bit bored with it, in place of Dino there was Mitchum (a wash), for Brennan there was Hunnicutt (an improvement IMOP), and standing in for Ricky Nelson was James Caan (also an improvement). This go round did seem tighter in story, but again it was mostly town bound. The main villian this time was Ed Asner with hired gun Christofer George. Rival in the range war that is the catalist for all the action is RG Armstrong. A love interest for Caan is provided by Michele Carey who I always though was hot. The Feathers character for Wayne is practically non existant in this version.

Anyway to make a long story short "True Grit" is light years better than both of these films.



Title: Re: El Dorado (1966)
Post by: titoli on March 14, 2008, 07:12:30 PM
Absolutely. But between Rio Bravo and El Dorado which one do you choose?


Title: Re: El Dorado (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on March 14, 2008, 08:09:55 PM
Well I like Dino in Rio Bravo, and Caan & Hunnicutt in El Dorado, so I really don't have a definite preference.


Title: Re: El Dorado (1966)
Post by: Ben Tyreen on March 15, 2008, 11:35:30 AM
Quote
The main villian this time was Ed Asner with hired gun Christofer George. Rival in the range war that is the catalist for all the action is RG Armstrong.

 I really liked the addition of a rival for John Wayne in the form of Christopher George.  That's what Rio Bravo is missing, one ultimate baddie for the Duke to go up against.  And even in El Dorado, you're not scared of George, but he proves to be a good equal even if their showdown is kinda anticlimactic.  Their scenes together though are pretty good, always talking about seeing who's faster.

 For me though, I like Rio Bravo overall more than ED.  A big part of it is something you mentioned CJ, that Rio Bravo is more of an outdoor western.  Even though the story is set in a town, you get the feeling you're out in a real desert town where ED is very obviously a set when they're town-bound.  Still, I own all three of Hawk's trilogy so its not a dealbreaker or anything. O0


Title: Re: El Dorado (1966)
Post by: Groggy on March 15, 2008, 02:42:25 PM
I need to see El Dorado again. I haven't seen it in many years. I saw Rio Bravo a year or two ago.

As a kid I liked El Dorado better. I'm not sure what my opinion would be nowadays.

Could we all at least agree that Rio Lobo sucks? ;)


Title: Re: El Dorado (1966)
Post by: dave jenkins on March 15, 2008, 03:12:02 PM
For me though, I like Rio Bravo overall more than ED. 
I think we can all agree that we like just about anything more than ED. ;D


Title: Re: El Dorado (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on March 15, 2008, 04:49:26 PM
I don't think I've ever seen Rio Lobo, so I couldn't say Grogs  :-[


Title: Re: El Dorado (1966)
Post by: Ben Tyreen on March 16, 2008, 01:30:58 AM
Quote
Could we all at least agree that Rio Lobo sucks?

 It's in my collection, but mostly for the opening Civil War segment with the unique way of robbing a gold train and then the end that is basically lifted right out of Rio Bravo.  And even then, I only paid $9.99 for it so I don't feel too guilty.  Other than the two bookends though, it is not a good movie.  Especially Jorge Rivero and Jennifer O'Neal's "acting."  Thank god that girl was something to look at. ;D


Title: Re: El Dorado (1966)
Post by: cigar joe on March 16, 2008, 04:51:47 AM
Is that where they use the bee hive? I think I've seen it up until the robbery but that's it.


Title: Re: El Dorado (1966)
Post by: Groggy on March 16, 2008, 05:58:14 AM
Rio Lobo had a weak, recycled plot and except for the Duke and Jack Elam a terrible cast. Jorge Rivero went on to appear in lots of Grade-Z Movies including Werewolf, which turned up on MST3K. So I think we can say this was the high point of his career. Jennifer O'Neill is awful, and Chris Mitchum is rather bleh too.

I actually thought the climax was excellent for a large-scale Western shootout. It almost saved the film. Almost.


Title: Re: El Dorado (1966)
Post by: Ben Tyreen on March 16, 2008, 02:51:36 PM
Quote
Is that where they use the bee hive? I think I've seen it up until the robbery but that's it.

 You got it.  The Confederates let the gold train get up greased-up slope and then slide back down into an elaborate slow-down process at the base of the hill.  All the while, the Union troops in the train are dealing with an angry beehive.  Too bad the rest of the movie wasn't as good.  I did see Rio Lobo in theaters last spring, even though its not a very good movie I couldn't pass up a John Wayne movie on the big screen. :)


Title: Re: El Dorado (1966)
Post by: Groggy on June 05, 2010, 05:33:57 PM
El Dorado - 7-8/10 - I always liked this better than Rio Bravo as a kid, and I might well stand by that. Although it repeats many of Rio Bravo's flaws, namely the pokey pace, it gets a lot more right. Replace Ricky Nelson with James Caan? Definitely an improvement, though the character is lame either way. More action, sparingly-used love interests and a better-done plot certainly help too, and Christopher George is a great (if underused) bad guy. A few too many saloon scenes can be excused. The lame music score is the biggest flaw, sounding like a TV cop show. So, yeah.


Title: Re: El Dorado (1966)
Post by: Dust Devil on December 31, 2010, 11:31:27 AM
I thought this was interesting when it started, I liked some of the line exchanges, but as it went on I lost interest. You've seen it all before, I don't feel like writing anything specific, I was half asleep anyway. They run from one side of the town to the other, for 2 hours. Too much. Like in B-league Spaghetti Western, but without the charming enthusiastic-amateurish atmosphere. One thing though - I liked Arthur Hunnicutt here better than Walter Brennan in RB.


(pushing for a) 6/10


Title: Re: El Dorado (1966)
Post by: The Firecracker on January 02, 2011, 12:26:46 AM
Absolutely. But between Rio Bravo and El Dorado which one do you choose?

I've said this elsewhere but I choose the latter.
I prefer Mitchum in the Dean Martin role and I also prefer James Caan in the Ricky Nelson role.
Also we get out of the town a little bit so it's more cinematic in a way.


Title: Re: El Dorado (1966)
Post by: stanton on January 02, 2011, 02:30:56 AM
I like both equally.

They have both the same flaws and the same merits.
I don't like the typical Hollywood humour of those days, and all films of Hawks have these doses of humour and those superfluous sidekicks (even Scarface). And I'm not talking now about Walter Brennan's Stumpy, which is a great role, but e.g. the mexican saloon owner with his much too beautiful wife.

But the directing and the pacing and most of the other dialogues are excellent. And the acting of all 4 leads in both films. Nelson is not a great actor, but he fits the role fine enough. Just as Caan did. The other 6 are marvellous.

Rio Lobo on the other hand is entertaining, but a disappointment compared to it's predecessors. Wayne was fantastic in RB and ED but seems to be tired (and looks old) in RL. The 2 youngsters on his side are unremarkable so that only Jack Elam (in the role of his life) is up to the standard.

With a little nostalgia 9 for RB and ED and 6/10 for RL.


Title: Re: El Dorado (1966)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on January 17, 2013, 03:57:35 AM
I just saw this quote from Wayne in Roger Ebert's 1967 PEOPLE interview with Wayne, (on the set of The Green Berets) http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19671008/PEOPLE/710080301



Wayne grinned, "You know," he said, "all the time we were making that movie, I was scared to death someone would notice that all Hawks was doing, basically, was taking 'Rio Bravo' and sort of juggling it around a little. I played the same part, and he switched Robert Mitchum for Dean Martin, and the plot was almost exactly the same. But no one seems to have noticed."


Either Wayne was wrong, or people were stupid in 1967; I'm not sure how anyone could have missed how much of a direct ripoff El Dorado is of Rio Bravo (and why, btw,  I had no pleasure from watching El Dorado).