Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => For a Few Dollars More => Topic started by: Jordan Krug on March 21, 2008, 02:39:38 PM



Title: Mystery of the "Manco by the water scene" solved!
Post by: Jordan Krug on March 21, 2008, 02:39:38 PM
This may have been suggested before, but now I have something to use as proof! (if someone could reply with the original thread that has the reverse angles on Manco, that would be great as well, I couldn't find it)

The three men he shoots in the water scene photo below are the same 3 men (at least in wardobe - maybe not actors) he kills in the film by the campfire, meaning that either of these two scenes is a re-shoot. I finally got a high res photo of the scene and was able to compare the wardrobes of the dead men to those that appear in the campfire scene in the film and they match (the only difference being that in the water scene they wore hats)...

So for some reason the same scene was shot twice, but it's not some undiscovered plot thread or missing story element, it's just a re-shoot....

(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/7369/waterscenegk4.th.jpg) (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=waterscenegk4.jpg)

(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9082/waterscene1sg6.th.jpg) (http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=waterscene1sg6.jpg)












Title: Re: Mystery of the "Manco by the water scene" solved!
Post by: Clinton on March 22, 2008, 04:37:58 AM
This may have been suggested before, but now I have something to use as proof! (if someone could reply with the original thread that has the reverse angles on Manco, that would be great as well, I couldn't find it)

The three men he shoots in the water scene photo below are the same 3 men (at least in wardobe - maybe not actors) he kills in the film by the campfire, meaning that either of these two scenes is a re-shoot. I finally got a high res photo of the scene and was able to compare the wardrobes of the dead men to those that appear in the campfire scene in the film and they match (the only difference being that in the water scene they wore hats)...

So for some reason the same scene was shot twice, but it's not some undiscovered plot thread or missing story element, it's just a re-shoot....

(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/7369/waterscenegk4.th.jpg) (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=waterscenegk4.jpg)

(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9082/waterscene1sg6.th.jpg) (http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=waterscene1sg6.jpg)










Nice work! Would you be able to elaborate on the water scene? Is it a deleted sequence from FAFDM?


Title: Re: Mystery of the "Manco by the water scene" solved!
Post by: Jordan Krug on March 23, 2008, 08:57:43 AM
here's the previous thread:

http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=3339.0


Well the water scene was always thought to be a deleted scene, there are a few shots from the reverse angle of Eastwood with water behind him, (see below) which was always a mystery to us leone fans. We knew it was from fafdm because of the leather guantlett, but until I was able to determine the identity of the dead men in the other shot, the whole sequence was a mystery (especially since there's really no room in the plot for another gundown if you think about it) So it's not a deleted scene but an ALTERNATE version of the campfire scene (where after Manco joins Ramon's gang, the next morning he kills the three gang members with him)

(http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/8607/cooleastwood3feti8.th.jpg) (http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cooleastwood3feti8.jpg)


(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/8860/aldenamh3ei2.th.jpg) (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aldenamh3ei2.jpg)


Title: Re: Mystery of the "Manco by the water scene" solved!
Post by: marmota-b on March 23, 2008, 10:04:48 AM
Wow! Great find! How lucky you are - could you tell us what this invaluable source of hi-res photos is?


Title: Re: Mystery of the "Manco by the water scene" solved!
Post by: Jordan Krug on March 23, 2008, 09:09:49 PM
Wow! Great find! How lucky you are - could you tell us what this invaluable source of hi-res photos is?

In these parts, a man's life can depend on a mere scrap of information....and a fistful of dollars.....I can't really reveal the source (it's just another collector like me basically) , but if anything else comes to light worth sharing with the board, I promise to pass it along....


Title: Re: Mystery of the "Manco by the water scene" solved!
Post by: Clinton on March 24, 2008, 05:03:50 AM
In these parts, a man's life can depend on a mere scrap of information....and a fistful of dollars.....I can't really reveal the source (it's just another collector like me basically) , but if anything else comes to light worth sharing with the board, I promise to pass it along....

There are some other sources with some shots from this "alternative" scene. I am not sure how to post images, but I will post the imageshack details below. i only have the image in very low resolution but the original is based on a 6 x 6 negative.

(http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/661/alternativefdmscenewk7.th.jpg) (http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alternativefdmscenewk7.jpg)


Title: Re: Mystery of the "Manco by the water scene" solved!
Post by: Jordan Krug on March 24, 2008, 10:02:36 AM
There are some other sources with some shots from this "alternative" scene. I am not sure how to post images, but I will post the imageshack details below. i only have the image in very low resolution but the original is based on a 6 x 6 negative.

(http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/661/alternativefdmscenewk7.th.jpg) (http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alternativefdmscenewk7.jpg)

Wow, I wonder if he shoots them right off their horses (which might explain why they're wearing their hats in the water scene too)


Title: Re: Mystery of the "Manco by the water scene" solved!
Post by: marmota-b on March 25, 2008, 06:24:35 AM
it's just another collector like me basically

That's all I wanted to know, because I couldn't afford it anyway. :) Thanks.


Title: Re: Mystery of the "Manco by the water scene" solved!
Post by: Jordan Krug on April 20, 2008, 08:30:36 AM
I've been doing some more thinking about this scene, (as it appears in the film) and there is something a bit odd about the setup.

If you remember in the previous scene, Manco says "well if there's going to be any shooting, I''ll need my rest" as he heads up the stairs of the church - wouldn't this be implying that he's going to sleep at the church? Then the scene fades down and suddenly we're at a campsite and Manco is the first to wake up....

The other thing is that the ALT version of this scene (the one with the water) begins differently - it seems like Manco is alone by the water (and no campfire visible), maybe has a few lines as the riders approach him and then he shoots them off their horses......

(http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/8500/dollarbr5.th.jpg) (http://img383.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dollarbr5.jpg)


I feel like something is missing between both version of these scenes - IF the scene preceding it (in the church) is "original" and not a reshoot itself....hmmmm


Title: Re: Mystery of the "Manco by the water scene" solved!
Post by: The Peacemaker on April 20, 2008, 10:37:31 AM
Excellent find! I really believe this scene was just a reshoot.


I had the same problem in my movie. There was an interrogation scene set up in a dark room with the standard bright light shining down on the person being interrogated. When we reviewed the scene the next day we discovered that it was both too dark and the audio way too low to be salvaged. So we re-did the scene in another room about a week later with different lighting and different dialogue to fit with the setting.


Title: Re: Mystery of the "Manco by the water scene" solved!
Post by: moviesceleton on April 20, 2008, 10:48:22 AM
Excellent find! I really believe this scene was just a reshoot.


I had the same problem in my movie. There was an interrogation scene set up in a dark room with the standard bright light shining down on the person being interrogated. When we reviewed the scene the next day we discovered that it was both too dark and the audio way too low to be salvaged. So we re-did the scene in another room about a week later with different lighting and different dialogue to fit with the setting.
Come on man! Why are you teasing us with these tidbits?! We want to see the real thing!


Title: Re: Mystery of the "Manco by the water scene" solved!
Post by: The Peacemaker on April 20, 2008, 10:56:14 AM
Come on man! Why are you teasing us with these tidbits?! We want to see the real thing!

In time....it still needs some work before a DVD release.


Title: Re: Mystery of the "Manco by the water scene" solved!
Post by: moviesceleton on April 20, 2008, 12:14:24 PM
In time....it still needs some work before a DVD release.
You mean you're releasing it officially on DVD :o Way to go O0


Title: Re: Mystery of the "Manco by the water scene" solved!
Post by: marmota-b on April 20, 2008, 12:32:28 PM
Seriously, Peace, even my sister asked where she could see your film. ;D

If you remember in the previous scene, Manco says "well if there's going to be any shooting, I''ll need my rest" as he heads up the stairs of the church - wouldn't this be implying that he's going to sleep at the church? Then the scene fades down and suddenly we're at a campsite and Manco is the first to wake up....

I never thought about that. ???


Title: Re: Mystery of the "Manco by the water scene" solved!
Post by: Cusser on April 20, 2008, 03:13:01 PM
I'm a semi-amateur film maker, make safety films as a sideline where I work, use cheap humor to keep the audience awake during quarterly meetings, figuring that people who are awake learn more.  If you want to see my latest (but not about safety), see http://youtube.com/watch?v=URTHHK2_nRw

My Leone homage (part of a safety film, about a minute in is at http://youtube.com/watch?v=Nvr_RUpblmk
I'm the twitcher with the stubble, filling in for someone who had car trouble


Title: Re: Mystery of the "Manco by the water scene" solved!
Post by: Jordan Krug on June 28, 2008, 11:54:11 AM
found a better copy of one of the photos from this scene :

(http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/7790/fafdmrscopy2ky3.th.jpg) (http://img366.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fafdmrscopy2ky3.jpg)


Title: Re: Mystery of the "Manco by the water scene" solved!
Post by: dave jenkins on June 28, 2008, 07:18:27 PM
Great! You can more clearly see the gauntlet now.


Title: Re: Mystery of the "Manco by the water scene" solved!
Post by: Jordan Krug on August 30, 2008, 09:34:37 AM
Looks like this reshoot also caused a continuity error: from a website with bloopers:

"After killed 3 guys from the Indio's gang, Manco ride on a black horse and then he is entering to the town riding on a different horse with a different saddle. Later we can see him riding the first horse again."

Which again adds to the evidence the scene was reshot..



Title: Re: Mystery of the "Manco by the water scene" solved!
Post by: Ramon on August 31, 2008, 07:55:59 AM
Interesting too from a geographical point of view as the campfire scene was filmed up in the hills behind the El Paso set in Almeria and the river scene up near Madrid, same location as the river ambush scene in Fistful of Dollars.  The only other scene that Eastwood would have filmed near Madrid was White Rocks.


Title: Re: Mystery of the "Manco by the water scene" solved!
Post by: Le Bon on November 02, 2008, 05:05:42 PM
I have a better image of one of the previously seen water scene photos.

(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/1640/img890restsofta1fv3.jpg) (http://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img890restsofta1fv3.jpg)


Title: Re: Mystery of the "Manco by the water scene" solved!
Post by: Jordan Krug on November 03, 2008, 08:33:05 PM
Thanks for posting! Great shot! Where did you find it?


Title: Re: Mystery of the "Manco by the water scene" solved!
Post by: marmota-b on November 07, 2008, 09:09:30 AM
Nice! It feels good to know no matter how long I haven't seriously been here and haven't watched the films, I still love them as much as always. My feelings at seeing the photos prove it for me. ;)


Title: Re: Mystery of the "Manco by the water scene" solved!
Post by: Le Bon on November 08, 2008, 03:40:40 AM
Thanks for posting! Great shot! Where did you find it?

Someone was selling this photo on ebay. It had a horrible red tint but my scanner managed to correct the colours.


Title: Re: Mystery of the "Manco by the water scene" solved!
Post by: Jordan Krug on May 28, 2009, 04:48:36 PM
(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6868/eastwoodwater.th.jpg) (http://img38.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eastwoodwater.jpg)

Another high quality version of the above photo I found online...