Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Once Upon A Time In The West => Topic started by: The clint on April 24, 2008, 07:17:43 AM



Title: Italian CVC 175 minute version, original or latter day tinkering?
Post by: The clint on April 24, 2008, 07:17:43 AM
Does anyone know whether the 175 minute cut was the cut released in Italy in 1968 or was it a cut cobbled together later on, perhaps for a re-release or just the DVD of the movie? I've always been a bit confused about this subject.


Title: Re: Italian CVC 175 minute version, original or latter day tinkering?
Post by: SeanSeanSean on April 27, 2008, 02:44:40 PM
Does anyone know whether the 175 minute cut was the cut released in Italy in 1968 or was it a cut cobbled together later on, perhaps for a re-release or just the DVD of the movie? I've always been a bit confused about this subject.
I have the 165 min. box set. So, what more do we see in the extra 10 minutes?


Title: Re: Italian CVC 175 minute version, original or latter day tinkering?
Post by: Le Bon on April 28, 2008, 03:24:10 AM
They are mostly alternate and extra takes of existing scenes with more close ups in the opening scene, and Jill entering the way station and a few others. And theres the scene where Mortons chess piece falls over.


Title: Re: Italian CVC 175 minute version, original or latter day tinkering?
Post by: Jordan Krug on April 28, 2008, 02:20:44 PM
here's a list :

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/dvdcompare/onceuponatimeintheest/ouatitw-ext.txt


Title: Re: Italian CVC 175 minute version, original or latter day tinkering?
Post by: The clint on September 13, 2008, 01:24:38 PM
So does anyone know, whether the 175 minute version was the one that premiered in Italy in 1968 or not?


Title: Re: Italian CVC 175 minute version, original or latter day tinkering?
Post by: piribiriboing on September 22, 2008, 03:04:55 PM
No, the CVC is the 1990-92 restoration by Claver Salizzato. In addition it has at least Harmonica raising after the gunfight at Cattle Corner. Not sure about other scenes.


Title: Re: Italian CVC 175 minute version, original or latter day tinkering?
Post by: Novecento on May 12, 2009, 07:11:44 AM
here's a list :

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/dvdcompare/onceuponatimeintheest/ouatitw-ext.txt


I have a copy of the Italian DVD (http://www.ibs.it/dvd/8032442214679/henry-fonda-charles-bronson-claudia-cardinale-paolo/c-era-una-volta-il.html) and it does not seem to contain this scene:

Cheyenne's train surprise attack:
- Morton noticing the metal Jester chess piece of his desk shaking from the train's movement, it falls over and he quickly grabs it upright so as not to wake Frank's men.


I have seen screenshots of this scene so I know it exists but I was quite disappointed to find it not included here.


Title: Re: Italian CVC 175 minute version, original or latter day tinkering?
Post by: stanton on May 12, 2009, 01:42:56 PM
Watch again. It's at 1:30:30

Apart from the scene with Harmonica rising at the railway station, this was the only really new piece in the long version.


Title: Re: Italian CVC 175 minute version, original or latter day tinkering?
Post by: Novecento on May 13, 2009, 11:05:11 AM
I most certainly will.

Guess I must have just missed it when I watched it. I'll keep you posted.


Title: Re: Italian CVC 175 minute version, original or latter day tinkering?
Post by: Novecento on June 01, 2009, 06:27:21 PM
Watch again. It's at 1:30:30

Just checked. It is definitely not included on my Italian DVD (http://www.ibs.it/dvd/8032442214679/henry-fonda-charles-bronson-claudia-cardinale-paolo/c-era-una-volta-il.html)


Title: Re: Italian CVC 175 minute version, original or latter day tinkering?
Post by: The Peacemaker on June 02, 2009, 01:00:51 PM
Does anyone know where stills of the extra scenes in the Italian print can be found? I'm dying to see the sequence with Morton and the chess piece.


Title: Re: Italian CVC 175 minute version, original or latter day tinkering?
Post by: Novecento on June 02, 2009, 02:43:02 PM
No, the CVC is the 1990-92 restoration by Claver Salizzato. In addition it has at least Harmonica raising after the gunfight at Cattle Corner. Not sure about other scenes.

Just checked. It is definitely not included on my Italian DVD (http://www.ibs.it/dvd/8032442214679/henry-fonda-charles-bronson-claudia-cardinale-paolo/c-era-una-volta-il.html)

Right, I am assuming that my DVD of  the "versione alternativa" is the same "versione integrale" restored by Salizzato. This means that the Morton chess piece scene comes from elsewhere.

There is a supposedly complete version of the movie, by a guy going under the name of Leonenut, that can be accessed here: http://fanedit.org/341/.
The following two claims are made: "Includes all the extended Italian scenes & shots"; "includes some unique shots from the shorter version too".

I will post some more information on how this compares to Salizatto's version once I have watched it.


Title: Re: Italian CVC 175 minute version, original or latter day tinkering?
Post by: The Peacemaker on June 02, 2009, 05:24:07 PM
Right, I am assuming that my DVD of  the "versione alternativa" is the same "versione integrale" restored by Salizzato. This means that the Morton chess piece scene comes from elsewhere.

There is a supposedly complete version of the movie, by a guy going under the name of Leonenut, that can be accessed here: http://fanedit.org/341/.
The following two claims are made: "Includes all the extended Italian scenes & shots"; "includes some unique shots from the shorter version too".

I will post some more information on how this compares to Salizatto's version once I have watched it.

I'm trying to download the movie from the link but when I download it through rapidshare I can't open the file.


Title: Re: Italian CVC 175 minute version, original or latter day tinkering?
Post by: stanton on June 03, 2009, 02:07:40 AM
Just checked. It is definitely not included on my Italian DVD (http://www.ibs.it/dvd/8032442214679/henry-fonda-charles-bronson-claudia-cardinale-paolo/c-era-una-volta-il.html)

Then check the runtime. The runtime of mine is 2:50:04. It contains 2 small interviews with Leone and Cardinale.

Mine is definitely not the the boot version by this Leonenut guy, which only adds a few sec. from the US DVD to the long cut. But the cover of mine was a different one. But it's hard to believe that there are now 2 different "long" cuts out in Italy.

If your runtime is identical, the chess parts must be there. Actually these aren't chess figures but small tin soldiers, so maybe that's the reason for the confusion.

And here you can see stills of the added material, amongst them also several stills from the tin soldiers scene (at 1:25:15):

http://www.schnittberichte.com/schnittbericht.php?ID=4208

It's in German, but it shows all the differences between the both versions.
The 9 sec scene at 2:30:15 is not in the long version.

The cover of this release is also shown at the bottom.
And to avoid further mish-mash: the backcover states a runtime of 175 min, but the DVD has actually 170 min in Pal, which corresponds to a 177 min theatrical runtime.



Title: Re: Italian CVC 175 minute version, original or latter day tinkering?
Post by: Novecento on June 03, 2009, 07:13:42 AM
Mine is definitely not the the boot version by this Leonenut guy, which only adds a few sec. from the US DVD to the long cut. But the cover of mine was a different one. But it's hard to believe that there are now 2 different "long" cuts out in Italy.

Ok, I've figured this out I think. I have not fully compared the two all the way through but my "versione alternativa" appears to be the same as the Paramount release except it has the different browner hue to it (nicely restored) and most significantly has the correct end music with Jill's America played out in full  :).

This means that my memories of different shots/angles in my Italian version seem to be mistaken and that I have not seen any of the different takes in the 175min version. I guess I must just appreciate  different things about the movie every time I watch it because I certainly remember seeing new shots of Jill in the buggy which, when I compare the two DVDs now, are identical.


Title: Re: Italian CVC 175 minute version, original or latter day tinkering?
Post by: stanton on June 03, 2009, 10:00:06 AM
Ok, I've figured this out I think. I have not fully compared the two all the way through but my "versione alternativa" appears to be the same as the Paramount release except it has the different browner hue to it (nicely restored) and most significantly has the correct end music with Jill's America played out in full  :).

This means that my memories of different shots/angles in my Italian version seem to be mistaken and that I have not seen any of the different takes in the 175min version. I guess I must just appreciate  different things about the movie every time I watch it because I certainly remember seeing new shots of Jill in the buggy which, when I compare the two DVDs now, are identical.

Then, Novecento, how long is your version,? And is the "Harmonica rising scene in it?


Title: Re: Italian CVC 175 minute version, original or latter day tinkering?
Post by: Novecento on June 03, 2009, 10:29:24 AM
Then, Novecento, how long is your version,?

The place I bought it from has it incorrectly listed as 175min. I've just checked the back of the case which says 160min ca. and this is what it runs as on my player (i.e. roughly the same as the Paramount PAL release give or take about a minute).

And is the "Harmonica rising scene in it?

Yes, it seems essentially to be the same as the Paramount version except that the credits are different, the color is different and the end music is correct.

I've just had a thought.... I wonder how this Italian DVD (released 2007 with remastered audio and video) compares to the Scorsese restoration that was being done in Italy and is doing the circuits? Could they be the same??


Title: Re: Italian CVC 175 minute version, original or latter day tinkering?
Post by: Cusser on June 03, 2009, 09:00:00 PM
Peacemaker - about 10 years ago someone posted a Quicktime movie of the chess piece segment, and I saved the file. Harmonica was tied up on the train, the vibration causes the chess piece to fall, and Morton is visibly upset, tries to right the chess man, a parallel to his own trouble standing.  I have E-mailed the QT file to you, about 2.5MB, maybe you can make it work.


Title: Re: Italian CVC 175 minute version, original or latter day tinkering?
Post by: The Peacemaker on June 04, 2009, 12:30:02 PM
Peacemaker - about 10 years ago someone posted a Quicktime movie of the chess piece segment, and I saved the file. Harmonica was tied up on the train, the vibration causes the chess piece to fall, and Morton is visibly upset, tries to right the chess man, a parallel to his own trouble standing.  I have E-mailed the QT file to you, about 2.5MB, maybe you can make it work.

Thank you very much for the email!

I really enjoyed that clip including the slightly altered version of Morton's theme ( sounds like a different instrument substituting for the piano riff ).

Would like to see the whole version though, and the chess piece scene in higher quality (I'm greedy I know   ;) )


Title: Re: Italian CVC 175 minute version, original or latter day tinkering?
Post by: Cusser on June 04, 2009, 08:58:40 PM
Funny thing, I'm not currently able to view that .qt file, I do get the audio.  I'm not very good on these #$%^*(&%#$%^&&$ computers !!!


Title: Re: Italian CVC 175 minute version, original or latter day tinkering?
Post by: The Peacemaker on June 04, 2009, 09:24:10 PM
Then download jdownloader to access the rapidshare files from the internet with the *.dlc file.

That is where my problem lies.

I don't know how to download that jdownloader thing and what to do afterwards.


Title: Re: Italian CVC 175 minute version, original or latter day tinkering?
Post by: Groggy on June 05, 2009, 08:32:43 AM
So I take that the scene where Morton and Harmonica argue whilst on the train is lost?