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Films of Sergio Leone => Once Upon A Time In America => Topic started by: 4stars on January 28, 2004, 10:28:01 PM



Title: foreshadowing - the phony death of Max
Post by: 4stars on January 28, 2004, 10:28:01 PM
 I think Sergio Leone foreshadowed Noodles feeling guilty of Max's "death."  Remember in the childhood years when the gang is testing out their "salt."  Well when Noodles hugs Max and accidently makes him fall into the water, Max stays under the water.  Noodles thinks that Max has drowned.  In reality Max is just faking it to trick Noodles.  (The same thing kinda happens many years later.)  THIS IS REALLY HARD FOR ME TO EXPLAIN; DOES ANYBODY UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY?


Title: Re:foreshadowing - the phony death of Max
Post by: guybrush on January 29, 2004, 04:42:34 AM
do you mean that Max only pretended to jump into the garbage truck in order to make Noodles feel guilty once again?

mmmhhh... I don't buy that  ;)
Do you remember Noodles's reaction in Bailey's big villa after realising Max was still alive?
He acted as if the man in front of him was a complete stranger, as if that man was not the real Max, as if Max had really died thirty years before because of his treachery (that's actually the only sense of guilt Noodles had been growing for decades).

Max felt completely dumpened by Noodles's reaction. Max could not accept that a man whose life he had been spoiling for decades could react the way Noodles did. Max wanted Noodles to erupt in a rage, he wanted Noodles to shoot him. Noodles's lack of any vengeful reaction totally stunned Max, whose state of mind in that particular moment was so similar to disheartedness that he could not reasonably be brought to conceive the trick you describe. Max was well aware that Noodles would not have felt as over-worried or guilty as he had done in that "salt" episode.

As a prove of what I'm saying, do you remember Noodles's reaction after seeing that man, very much like Bailey, appearingly jumping into the garbage truck?
I would say Noodles's face was rather unexpressive, he did not look like he was so worried about the thing...


Title: Re:foreshadowing - the phony death of Max
Post by: General Sibley on January 29, 2004, 04:26:30 PM
I think Sergio Leone foreshadowed Noodles feeling guilty of Max's "death."  Remember in the childhood years when the gang is testing out their "salt."  Well when Noodles hugs Max and accidently makes him fall into the water, Max stays under the water.  Noodles thinks that Max has drowned.  In reality Max is just faking it to trick Noodles.  (The same thing kinda happens many years later.)  THIS IS REALLY HARD FOR ME TO EXPLAIN; DOES ANYBODY UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY?

I hear what you're saying, that's a good point.   When Max doesn't come to the surface right away, Noodles looks completely devastated.  You can see how much he cares about him.  Some more foreshadowing - Max finds it funny that Noodles seems so concerned.


Title: Re:foreshadowing - the phony death of Max
Post by: COLONNA on January 31, 2004, 02:29:28 AM
Very good point 4 stars !
When Max had to imagine and proposed a plot to his new Mafioso bosses, he certainly remembered the salt scene.
"I shall pretend I'm dying. "

( BTW it's a classical infantile attitude. Everybody ,at least once , dremt to die and so punish his parents. )


Title: Re: foreshadowing - the phony death of Max
Post by: moviesceleton on January 07, 2008, 11:49:59 AM
BUMB!


Title: Re: foreshadowing - the phony death of Max
Post by: dave jenkins on January 07, 2008, 05:12:55 PM
Bailey is able to tell Noodles that the reason Noodles misidentified Max's body all those years ago was because his eyes were too full of tears. Max wasn't there to see that, so how could he know? Answer: because he knew his man.