Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Other Films => Topic started by: Marco Leone on August 29, 2005, 03:20:54 PM



Title: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Marco Leone on August 29, 2005, 03:20:54 PM
I've got a real soft spot for this one.  Partly because its a good fun plot, but also it was a SW I watched just after my son was born, and he lay there quietly in my arms for the whole film (yeah, I know, I'm soppy!).



Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: quesodiablo on April 24, 2006, 08:30:20 AM
Hey All,

It's been a while, but I just thought some of you would enjoy this:

The Stranger and the Gunfighter

http://www.hkflix.com/xq/asp/filmID.535941/qx/details.htm

It's an anamorphic widescreen print, so enjoy!


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: The Firecracker on April 24, 2006, 06:06:48 PM
"Teach me the ways of the white man" ;D

that  line is all the funnier if its coming out of LVC's mouth.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Banjo on April 24, 2006, 06:11:45 PM
If you think Milians miscast in Face To Face why don't you have a problem with Capt Apache ;D?


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: The Firecracker on April 24, 2006, 06:13:23 PM
If you think Milians miscast in Face To Face why don't you have a problem with Capt Apache ;D?

because cap'n apache is played for laughs( I think?).
"Face to Face" is not.


you know Captain Apache was based on a book? I desperatly want to read that thing.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Banjo on April 24, 2006, 06:18:52 PM
because cap'n apache is played for laughs( I think?).
"Face to Face" is not.
Is it? :o
Well i tend to laugh at the movie rather than with it :D


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: The Firecracker on April 24, 2006, 06:19:53 PM
Is it? :o


yeah it says so in the opening credits.
Based on a book by "so and so"(I'll have to see again)


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Banjo on April 24, 2006, 06:21:51 PM
Maybe the makers realised how bad it was post-production and decided to pass it off as a comedy ;D


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: The Firecracker on April 24, 2006, 06:22:48 PM
Maybe the makers realised how bad it was post-production and decided to pass it off as a comedy ;D

or maybe it was actually unintentional. But I really doubt it.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Banjo on April 24, 2006, 06:25:23 PM
But Bad Mans River which is meant to be a comedy is an embarrasment!


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: The Firecracker on April 24, 2006, 06:26:43 PM
But Bad Mans River which is meant to be a comedy is an embarrasment!

I disagree. I liked "Bad Man's River". very enjoyable comedy.
You should see it again, maybe you'll change your mind.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Banjo on April 24, 2006, 06:29:18 PM
I taped over my pan and scan with a new widescreen version over Xmas which i havn't seen yet so its due a reassessment!


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: The Firecracker on April 24, 2006, 06:31:18 PM
I taped over my pan and scan with a new widescreen version over Xmas which i havn't seen yet so its due a reassessment!

check it out soon. It really is a good view. the first 10 minutes alone(with the montages and the still frames) is worth the watch.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Banjo on April 24, 2006, 06:45:32 PM
I find those freeze frames annoying :(


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: The Firecracker on April 24, 2006, 06:47:24 PM
I find those freeze frames annoying :(

really? I thought they were a creative gag.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Arizona Colt on April 25, 2006, 11:19:38 AM
STRANGER & THE GUNFIGHTER-haven't seen it in years but I remember the VHS being cut  so I'll definitely pick up the french disc. As to LVC's performance, there was no where else for the actor to go but into the realm of comedy. It was 1974 and the serious spaghetti hero had run its course or had been crushed underfoot by the onslaught of the TRINITY films and there imitators. Also this type of film was on the wane, supplanted by the kung fu film which was all the rage throughout the 70s and early 80s. Lo Lieh, who was not a real martial artist, but was convincing as one, was the first kung fu star before Bruce Lee ever hit. That film was KING BOXER or its more well known international title 5 FINGERS OF DEATH which is still one of the biggest international hits ever. Lo was chosen for S&TG because of the success of 5FOD and paired with another international superstar LVC who was also popular in HK(spaghetti westerns and James Bond films where big money makers in Hong Kong as Shaw Brothers had a monopoly on nearly all theater chains in HK at the time, something that would never happen in the US). The film has a playful atmosphere about it and it's obvious a substantial budget was utilized. Carlo Ponti and Shaws collaborated on several other co-productions notably the 3 SUPERMEN films mixing peplum, fantasy and kung fu. Margheriti as a director I wouldn't necessarily classify as a B director. He has turned out some classy films such as CASTLE OF BLOOD, VIRGIN OF NUREMBERG, WEB OF THE SPIDER and some "classic" films like THE LAST HUNTER and CANNIBAL APOCALYPSE aka APOCALYPSE TOMORROW. He was also the first italian director to attempt a sci fi film in Italy with two films-WAR OF THE PLANETS and BATTLE OF THE WORLDS(I think those are names).


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: The Firecracker on April 25, 2006, 11:21:52 AM
He was also the first italian director to attempt a sci fi film in Italy with two films-WAR OF THE PLANETS and BATTLE OF THE WORLDS(I think those are names).


one of which stars Franco Nero. I think you have one named confused with "Wild Wild Wild Planet".


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Arizona Colt on April 25, 2006, 11:32:22 AM
Yes correct, although I think one or both have another alias.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Banjo on April 25, 2006, 06:30:56 PM
STRANGER & THE GUNFIGHTER-haven't seen it in years but I remember the VHS being cut  so I'll definitely pick up the french disc. As to LVC's performance, there was no where else for the actor to go but into the realm of comedy. It was 1974 and the serious spaghetti hero had run its course or had been crushed underfoot by the onslaught of the TRINITY films and there imitators. Also this type of film was on the wane, supplanted by the kung fu film which was all the rage throughout the 70s and early 80s. Lo Lieh, who was not a real martial artist, but was convincing as one, was the first kung fu star before Bruce Lee ever hit. That film was KING BOXER or its more well known international title 5 FINGERS OF DEATH which is still one of the biggest international hits ever. Lo was chosen for S&TG because of the success of 5FOD and paired with another international superstar LVC who was also popular in HK(spaghetti westerns and James Bond films where big money makers in Hong Kong as Shaw Brothers had a monopoly on nearly all theater chains in HK at the time, something that would never happen in the US). The film has a playful atmosphere about it and it's obvious a substantial budget was utilized. Carlo Ponti and Shaws collaborated on several other co-productions notably the 3 SUPERMEN films mixing peplum, fantasy and kung fu. Margheriti as a director I wouldn't necessarily classify as a B director. He has turned out some classy films such as CASTLE OF BLOOD, VIRGIN OF NUREMBERG, WEB OF THE SPIDER and some "classic" films like THE LAST HUNTER and CANNIBAL APOCALYPSE aka APOCALYPSE TOMORROW. He was also the first italian director to attempt a sci fi film in Italy with two films-WAR OF THE PLANETS and BATTLE OF THE WORLDS(I think those are names).
Thanks for the info about the entertaining Lo Lieh-i had no idea he was so popular.For my money SATG is LVCs most enjoyable 70's sw!


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Banjo on April 25, 2006, 06:32:26 PM
really? I thought they were a creative gag.
If it is it falls badly flat!


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Arizona Colt on April 25, 2006, 11:34:55 PM
Lo Lieh had a long and varied career(He died a few years ago from Cancer). He appeared in genres ranging from kung fu-his most famous role being the near indestructible white brow priest in EXECUTIONERS FROM SHAOLIN to swordplay action with the VERY spaghetti westernish INVINCIBLE FIST, to horror like the BLACK MAGIC series and gambling films such as THE NOTORIOUS EIGHT. He even directed once with the classic CLAN OF THE WHITE LOTUS. He was one of a few HK actors who could make an easy transition from Hero to Villain. Also about Margheriti, he also directed Van Cleef again in the blaxploitation western TAKE A HARD RIDE with Jim Brown.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: The Firecracker on April 25, 2006, 11:37:52 PM
Margheriti, he also directed Van Cleef again in the blaxploitation western TAKE A HARD RIDE with Jim Brown.

thats correct, but I wouldnt call it a blaxploitation film. It is very much a spag western, jim Brown or not.

after all I wouldnt call "100 rifles" a blaxploitation film.


As for "clan of the white Lotus"...I assume tarantino also ripped this off to make a "nod" to it, in Kill Bill volume 2?

the pai-mei character.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Arizona Colt on April 25, 2006, 11:55:00 PM
Yes he did even utilizing the films US theatrical title as a line of dialog-FISTS OF THE WHITE LOTUS and also in the way Uma Thurman kills Carradine at the end. Even though this was the death strike that Pai Mei would deliver to his adversaries but it was called the 100 pace palm. Gordon Liu(in both KILL BILL films)was the recipient in COTWL although when confronting the White Lotus chief(again played by Lo Lieh-the even more powerful classmate of Pai Mei)Liu is asked how he is still alive and his response is of his 100 pace palm he only took 99. Not only that but the real story of Pai Mei is skewed in Tarantinos film. The actual man lived during the 1600's and was a betrayer to the shaolin monks as they refused to be subjected to the tyranny of the invading Manchu armies.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Banjo on April 26, 2006, 05:25:06 AM
thats correct, but I wouldnt call it a blaxploitation film. It is very much a spag western, jim Brown or not.
I'm surprised you haven't picked up Take A Hard Ride as its now out on a widescreen dvd for £5 on UK Amazon-very cheap!!,Firecracker,afterall you've got Kid Vengeance aka Take Another Hard Ride.
I've read some good and bad things about the earlier movie and have been tempted by the inclusion(i think) of Jim Kelly-the black karate guy from Enter The Dragon.Whats mainly put me off is hearing it was filmed in the Canary Islands(or somewhere like that!).


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: The Firecracker on April 26, 2006, 11:52:02 AM
I'm surprised you haven't picked up Take A Hard Ride as its now out on a widescreen dvd for £5 on UK Amazon-very cheap!!,Firecracker,afterall you've got Kid Vengeance aka Take Another Hard Ride.
I've read some good and bad things about the earlier movie and have been tempted by the inclusion(i think) of Jim Kelly-the black karate guy from Enter The Dragon.Whats mainly put me off is hearing it was filmed in the Canary Islands(or somewhere like that!).


I havent plunked down to get it because I just have other sws I am interested in at the moment. I will be getting it soon. and It cant be as bad as "Kid Vengeance".


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Banjo on July 19, 2006, 11:41:22 AM
Take a Hard Ride is a decent action/comedy/buddy movie, basically.  LVC's bounty-hunter/antagonist is probably the most complicated character, for all his lack of screentime.
I did get a cheapo of this in the end from UK Amazon(£5)
and it is quite watchable though LVC's character is very confusing(is he a good or bad guy?) and his last scene when he's just been shot and trotts off on his horse is unsatisfactory.With the Jim Brown connection a good companion piece to El Condor.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: The Firecracker on July 19, 2006, 03:25:50 PM
seen the first hour of "Take a hard ride" I really like LVC's character. very terrifying.

I almost read what you had to say about the end Banjo but I stopped myself before I could read it. I'll finish the film today.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Banjo on May 25, 2007, 05:54:34 AM
Firecracker's  Crappiest SW Review :'( :-

Stranger and the gunfighter


ok...here we go.....


I really, really ,really really wanted to like this film...REALLY. but I couldnt bring myself to like it. true it has some really funny and shining moments that make the film somewhat worth seeing(the key word is "somewhat") but all the few fun moments are bogged down by all the other scenes that contain nothing but mindless and boring drivel. so all the good stuff is way outnumbered by all the bad stuff.

the story is about a bum safe cracker(Van cleef) named Dakota. Dakota arrives at a town where he hopes to steal the fortune of wealthy china man Wang. Dakota enters the bank where Wang keeps his supposed fortune in several safes. Dakota opens each safe only to be dissappointed in finding nothing but some pictures of the womens nude backsides(or as Dakota would say..."asses"). while opening the last safe with dynamite, dakota accidently kills Wang. Dakota is arrested and sentenced to a hanging.

meanwhile we are introduced to Wang's nephew Ho. the intro to this new character takes place in china. and oh boy what a long and boring intro it is. we spend way to much time in china(a tedious 7 minutes). this scene only shows that a chinese warlord wishes for Ho to go to america to find his uncle's fortune(which the warlord gave his uncle for some reason), because all that was sent from america was a wooden statue of an indian. the scene also demonstrates that Ho is efficent in the art of kung-fu. this scene suffers from its lenght. all the information I mentioned above about the scene could have been squeezed into at least a 3 minute running time as opposed to a long and dreary 7 minutes. Anyway...Ho arrives at america only to find out that his uncle was "murdered" by outlaw Dakota during a failed bank heist, Ho is given the pictures Dakota found in his uncle's safes. lucky for Ho, he has arrived on the day of Dakota's execution. Ho wants answers from the outlaw and saves him from the hanging. the two come up  with the assumption that the fortune can be found by finding the women in the pictures and having a look at there back sides which have been tatooed with a "clue" to where the fortune is. In pursuit is our villian of the piece, a nut-job preacher who travels around in a mobile chapel(one of the only visual gags that work in the film). to bad he doesnt work very well as a villain. he is more of a clumsy oaf then any real threat to our heroes. to bad, because he could have really been a threatening presence. the filmmakers wasted the oppertunity by making him more comical then needed. well...after all the characters have been introduced all that is left to say about the film is that it is a rather long silly and rambling story. there is one overly long kung-fu scene that takes place in a back room of a gambling house(in the laundry if I remember correctly). the kung fu in that scene is badly done and clocks in about a good 4 minutes on my version. I rememeber wanting to shut it off(my finger was very close to pressing the stop button).after that mishap, the badly choregraphed kung-fu doesnt spring up again until the climax(thank the lord)
and by then it was improved...marginally. what is in between that is more rambling and most of the time "boring story". at the end the bad preacher man catches several bullets from van cleef, which was cool(only because his death was complete with squibs and up until now...there were no squibs in the film). anyway the money was not found in america, instead the fortune turned out to be inside the wooden indian statue back in china, which just pissed me off because I didnt really have to endure the 104 minutes of this film if only they found it in the statue the first 10 minutes of the film. And this whole "surprise (GOTCHA!)" ending just cheats the audience in the most embarassing way.
ah man what a waste.

actors:

van cleef: Van Cleef is credited as making some of the best spaghetti westerns(Death rides a horse, Day of anger, Big gundown etc.) but he is also credited as making the worst(Captain apache, Bad man's river, God's gun etc.). this film (to me) is part of the latter. and it doesnt help that his acting seems so forced here. he is very unconvincing when portraying anger through dialogue(something I have noticed also in "Beyond the Law"). he just looks so uncomfortable when he has to spout out something angry. He gets anger across much better when he doesnt have to say anything. unfortunatly this role requires him to be a comic character that talks alot and is prone to angry out burst like "what the hell!" and "what is that supposed to mean!" *sigh*

whats his face?(sorry forgot the actors name, the chinese man who plays Ho):does a typical chinese stereotype role. complete with fortune cookie logic.

the Music: Nothing special, it does it's job though. It aint horrible.

The Good:
1. Lee van cleef singing just before he is going to be hanged is always a welcome addition for camp value.

2. Lee van cleef's facial expressions after drinking "chinese liquor".

3. Lee van cleef autographing the naked ass of a french women.
4. (my personal fav) Lee van cleef impersonating an englishman.

5. the preacher proclaiming "me for instance" after a hooker asks a man "who would want to hit a nice young man like you?"


The Bad:
everything else....

and the Ugly:
the fact that I actually sat through this.




DONT WASTE YOURE CASH! I was lucky enough to acquire this for $3.00 from an ebay seller called jerksi. And that was even a waste.

WATCH OUT for a film called Blood Money. it is the same film masquerading around under a different name.

those looking for a good "east meets west" spag, check out Shanghai Joe(recommended by me).



CRAP METER:6

ENTERTAINMENT VALUE:6


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Arizona Colt on May 25, 2007, 02:34:39 PM
I don't agree with that review at all. If anything, SHANGHAI JOE should be the one to avoid. The only thing that film has going for it is the abundant gore and a brief cameo by Kinski. STRANGER isn't perfect, but it's light years ahead of the other film on every level.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: The Firecracker on May 25, 2007, 04:56:55 PM
I don't agree with that review at all. If anything, SHANGHAI JOE should be the one to avoid. The only thing that film has going for it is the abundant gore and a brief cameo by Kinski. STRANGER isn't perfect, but it's light years ahead of the other film on every level.


I like SJ. A pleasent time waster.


Soundtrack (ripped from HAGFSWP) is rousing.


Reading my old review of TSATG I think I was too harsh on it and I didn't really like the sarcastic tone I added to the review.
Most of my "crappy SW reviews" equal the quality of the films being reviewed.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Arizona Colt on May 25, 2007, 05:00:37 PM
Switch the last two words of your second sentence and that pretty much sums up SHANGHAI JOE :D

It's alright. We can't agree on everything.  :)


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Banjo on May 25, 2007, 05:07:15 PM
Reading my old review of TSATG I think I was too harsh on it and I didn't really like the sarcastic tone I added to the review.
Do you want me to remove it so you can write a more positive review?

Yes AC, SHANGHAI JOE goes up to 11 on my crapometer   ;D


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: The Firecracker on May 25, 2007, 09:00:53 PM
Do you want me to remove it so you can write a more positive review?




I'll try to have another look at it again, eventually.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Arizona Colt on May 26, 2007, 05:42:30 AM
No, no, no. Leave it. Don't remove it on my account. I already wrote a positive review some time ago and noted the faults from my perspective.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Banjo on May 26, 2007, 07:57:12 AM
Here's your review AC

This version of S&TG is the french disc and it appears to be uncut as some of the violence I don't remember seeing on the Columbia VHS. The picture quality is immaculate. The widescreen presentation brings out a better appreciation for this one which completely dwarfs the similar but rather lackluster FIGHTING FISTS OF SHANGHAI JOE. Excellent production values from the HK locations as several of those massive sets and the bridge were utilized or redressed in many of the Shaws biggest martial chivalry and kung fu epics around this time. Lee Van Cleef was obviously enjoying himself on this one and his rapport with Shaw star Lo Lieh is quite fun to watch. However, it was odd to see future Shaw exploitation starlet Chen Ping in a (small)role completely clothed.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Banjo on May 26, 2007, 04:07:16 PM
AC's updated opinions on this movie:-

STRANGER & THE GUNFIGHTER, THE- 1974-

Shaw Brothers and Carlo Ponti teamed up for this lively and fun spaghetti eastern starring Lee Van Cleef and Shaw leading man Lo Lieh about a treasure whose whereabouts are tattooed on a number of Lady-of-the-evening’s behinds.

The story, while not wholly original, offers some humorous interplay between the two leads. A villainous preacher and his giant Indian henchman is also after the gold as well as a bandit gang. All the usual clichés are trotted out for this film which never takes itself seriously.

Lo uses his own voice and speaks good english and gets some funny lines. The Shaw’s instill some much needed production value to the proceedings that was lacking in these movies at the time. With all these ingredients and its light hearted tone, there are still some letdowns.

The first few fight scenes are very lackadaisical and are not up to par with the Shaw actioners released at the time. Towards the end the fights get much better, though. The final moments with Van Cleef (who already has Asian features) dressed in Chinese regalia and being carried around in a sedan are a hoot.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: titoli on January 27, 2009, 03:28:49 PM
I saw this in french and I'll go with FC's review. I didn't like it, though it has those elements FC noted. 5\10


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Arizona Colt on January 27, 2009, 03:54:00 PM
I saw this in french and I'll go with FC's review. I didn't like it, though it has those elements FC noted. 5\10

What elements are those?



Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: titoli on January 27, 2009, 04:57:51 PM
Firecracker's  Crappiest SW Review :'( :-


The Good:
1. Lee van cleef singing just before he is going to be hanged is always a welcome addition for camp value.

2. Lee van cleef's facial expressions after drinking "chinese liquor".

3. Lee van cleef autographing the naked ass of a french women.
4. (my personal fav) Lee van cleef impersonating an englishman.

5. the preacher proclaiming "me for instance" after a hooker asks a man "who would want to hit a nice young man like you?"


The Bad:
everything else....

and the Ugly:
the fact that I actually sat through this.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Arizona Colt on January 27, 2009, 05:07:38 PM
And if that old review still stands, I still don't agree with any of it. It's obvious LVC was having a good time on that picture, if he wasn't he's a far better actor than he gets credit for. And regardless of which one you like better, anybody that thinks SHANGHAI JOE is a better made movie than S&TG needs their head examined. :D


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: The Firecracker on January 27, 2009, 06:17:14 PM
And if that old review still stands

It does.

And regardless of which one you like better, anybody that thinks SHANGHAI JOE is a better made movie than S&TG needs their head examined. :D

Maybe :D


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Arizona Colt on January 27, 2009, 06:34:08 PM
It does.

Maybe :D

Well, before you say whether martial arts scenes are good or bad, you should see more than 4 or 5 before making an assessment and also take into consideration that the choreography evolved from the 30's up to today. Each succeeding decade the techniques changed from what Asians called "old fashioned style moviemaking" to the new style of today's action movies.

And you should also take into consideration that S&TG has actual production values and that it was cooperatively backed by what was, at the time, the largest privately owned film studio in the world. SHANGHAI JOE has nothing but a lot of sloppy gore and a lot of what CJ calls, 'gravel pits'. And Kinski apparently hated appearing in this movie (aside from the "few dollars more" he got on this cinematic eyesore) as the director has nothing nice to say about him. Although he doesn't mention it by name, Kinski refers to his succeeding westerns becoming "shittier and shittier". But comparing SHANGHAI JOE to shit is a bit too kind. :D

And you couldn't pay me to sit through the execrable mess that is FIGHTING FISTS OF SHANGHAI JOE again. I'll sell you the DVD if you want it. :)


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: The Firecracker on January 27, 2009, 06:37:05 PM
I will update the review though for my book.
Trim it down a little and add a few other things that I liked.

Shanghai Joe's kung-fu choregraphy is very poor (even worse than some of the early stuff in SATG) but the colorful villains, good soundtrack (ripped from the third Sartana) and fast pacing make it a much more watchable movie I think.

Lo Lieh would have been a much better choice to have as Joe than Chen Lee, soley on the basis that I'am now a King Boxer fan :D .

The perks for SATG is LVC's comic performance, nice big sets and the serious finale but that's pretty much it (for me).


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: The Firecracker on January 27, 2009, 06:42:49 PM
Well, before you say whether martial arts scenes are good or bad, you should see more than 4 or 5 before making an assessment

Is that lovelockandload elitism I smell? :D
I've seen more than that.
I prefer the sword epics though.


The Kung-fu improves in the finale but the the sequence in China just isn't very good.
And just because the stars had a good time making the film doesn't mean we have to have a good time watching it. :D


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Arizona Colt on January 27, 2009, 06:45:19 PM
I will update the review though for my book.
Trim it down a little and add a few other things that I liked.

Shanghai Joe's kung-fu choregraphy is very poor (even worse than some of the early stuff in SATG) but the colorful villains, good soundtrack (ripped from the third Sartana) and fast pacing make it a much more watchable movie I think.

Lo Lieh would have been a much better choice to have as Joe than Chen Lee, soley on the basis that I'am now a King Boxer fan :D .

The perks for SATG is LVC's comic performance, nice big sets and the serious finale but that's pretty much it (for me).

Lo Lieh wasn't even a martial artist, but had a massive career that lasted over three decades. This Chen Lee guy only did four movies I'm aware of, and they all were Italian films with possibly HK backing.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Arizona Colt on January 27, 2009, 06:52:57 PM
Is that lovelockandload elitism I smell? :D
I've seen more than that.
I prefer the sword epics though.



Hahaha, I thought that too when I typed it, but, no. 4 or 5 is a big difference from 100. Which ones have you seen? There's only been a couple sword films released here legitimately from the Weinstein's. I sent you a few and you said you bought both KING BOXER and ONE ARMED SWORDSMAN. What else?

The sword films aren't even kung fu. They're called 'wuxia pian'. The outrageous jumping and flying around is prominent in the novels many of the films based on these famous tomes of Chinese literature. The later kung fu films took the fantasy elements of these and subtly put them in the fist & kick flicks. The Shaw's made them more grounded in reality (but not completely) and when KING BOXER hit, the flood gates were opened for Bruce Lee in America.

Sorry to go off topic, but S&TG isn't a perfect movie, but it's a helluva lot better made than the Caiano movie. And I may be biased because two of my favorite performers are in it. Nobody in the other movie (outside of Kinski and Gordon Mitchell) offer any interest to me to give it another look.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Arizona Colt on January 27, 2009, 06:59:35 PM
I may put SHANGHAI JOE into the "Dis List" column at my site. But then that would mean I'd have to watch it again. :D


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: The Firecracker on January 27, 2009, 07:43:52 PM


The sword films aren't even kung fu.



That is why I made the separation,

Kung-fu list that I have  seen (not counting the sword epics).


KING BOXER
36TH CHAMBER OF SHAOLIN
SUPER INFRAMAN (does this count?)
HEROES OF THE EAST (There is a mixture of both weapons and hand to hand combat if I recall correctly)
SHAOLIN MARTIAL ARTS
CRIPPLED AVENGERS (Again, there is a mix between weapons and fists)
FIVE DEADLY VENOMS
7 GRANDMASTERS
MASTER OF THE FLYING GUILLOTINE
ONE ARMED BOXER

^a lot of these were seen on youtube

Not as much as I originally expected but more than 4 or 5.
Seen a lot more of those sword films.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: The Firecracker on January 27, 2009, 07:52:27 PM
I sent you a few and you said you bought both KING BOXER and ONE ARMED SWORDSMAN. What else?

Legendary Weapons Of China

Last Hurrah For Chivalry

Boxer's Omen (gave to Banjo although I liked it. Have to buy again)

Shadow Whip


one or two more I'm certain.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Arizona Colt on January 27, 2009, 07:53:18 PM
That is why I made the seperation,

Kung-fu list that I have  seen (not counting the sword epics).


KING BOXER
36TH CHAMBER OF SHAOLIN
SUPER INFRAMAN (does this count?)
HEROES OF THE EAST (There is a mixture of both weapons and hand to hand combat if I recall correctly)
SHAOLIN MARTIAL ARTS
CRIPPLED AVENGERS (Again, there is a mix between weapons and fists)
FIVE DEADLY VENOMS
7 GRANDMASTERS
MASTER OF THE FLYING GUILLOTINE
ONE ARMED BOXER

^a lot of these were seen on youtube

Not as much as I originally expected but more than 4 or 5.
Seen a lot more of those sword films.

None of those are swordplay films as you noted, but again, we are talking about a genre where there are literally thousands of movies. The difference is that the wuxia pian films dealt with the martial world, clans fighting against rival clans with lots of subterfuge and romanticism. Many of the films dealt with the pursuit of a fantastic weapon that would lead to great power. Many of the novels the films were based were dozens of volumes in length.

INFRAMAN counts as it has martial arts in it. It's the HK version of ULTRAMAN so it's a hybrid.  :)


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Arizona Colt on January 27, 2009, 07:54:34 PM
Legendary Weapons Of China

Last Hurrah For Chivalry

Boxer's Omen (gave to Banjo although I liked it. Have to buy again)

Shadow Whip

LAST HURRAH FOR CHIVALRY (John Woo directed flick for those that like his movies) and SHADOW WHIP are swordplay movies.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: The Firecracker on January 27, 2009, 07:56:17 PM
LAST HURRAH FOR CHIVALRY (John Woo directed flick for those that like his movies) and SHADOW WHIP are swordplay movies.

Yes, but you asked about the other purchases I made.

And I don't believe Boxer's Omen counts to much as Martial Arts picture :D


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Arizona Colt on January 27, 2009, 07:56:50 PM
Dude, you need to see the original FLYING GUILLOTINE (1974). That movie scared me as a kid. It's based on a true story and the weapon really existed only no one lived long enough to detail what the weapon really looked like. So all the movie versions are fabrications of the real thing. The Shaw version is the only one though that looks like it could really work. It looks real as opposed to the other films that copied it wherein it simply looks like a hat with "teeth" inside.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: The Firecracker on January 27, 2009, 07:58:49 PM
Dude, you need to see the original FLYING GUILLOTINE (1974).

I saw the infamous dog scene on youtube.
It looks as if it has more emphasis on story than action but I do want to see it.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Arizona Colt on January 27, 2009, 07:59:32 PM
Yes, but you asked about the other purchases I made.

And I don't believe Boxer's Omen counts to much as Martial Arts picture :D

Oh, sorry.

No, BOXER'S OMEN is a straight ahead horror flick. The first film is the better of the two. BEWITCHED (1981) is far more serious in tone and execution while BOXER'S OMEN is a wild, psychedelic tour de force of extreme imagery and gruesome shenanigans.

Speaking of horror, Image is release the once banned Shaw true horror LOST SOULS in March. It's considered the Chinese SALO. I've not watched it yet despite having the VCD for the last few years.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Arizona Colt on January 27, 2009, 08:02:21 PM
I saw the infamous dog scene on youtube.
It looks as if it has more emphasis on story than action but I do want to see it.

The first movie is definitely character driven and possibly holds a record for the most decapitations in a movie. The sequel, FLYING GUILLOTINE 2 is more action based and is what I call the BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES of Shaw movies.

Then there's THE VENGEFUL BEAUTY (1977) directed by the director of FG part 1. then there's the indies, MASTER OF THE FLYING GUILLOTINE aka ONE ARMED BOXER VS THE FLYING GUILLOTINE and FATAL FLYING GUILLOTINE. There might be one or two more. The weapon turns up in 1993's HEROIC TRIO starring Michelle Yeoh.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: The Firecracker on January 27, 2009, 08:04:04 PM
MASTER OF THE FLYING GUILLOTINE

Despite not having the usual perks that a Shaw production would have I thoroughly enjoyed this :)


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Arizona Colt on January 27, 2009, 08:06:33 PM
Despite not having the usual perks that a Shaw production would have I thoroughly enjoyed this :)

It was fun in a wacky way, but Jimmy Wang Yu had a hard on for doing movies to counter what Shaw's had in theaters at the time since he left them on not so good terms.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: O'Cangaceiro on February 01, 2009, 07:46:01 PM
I watched The Stranger and the Gunfighter last night and I did not think highly of it. It has its fun moments, but that's all. The movie was made at the time the SW genre was on its way out and the martial arts movies were starting to hit the Western hemisphere, and this probably explains why the movie is a mixture of martial arts and SW, coupled with some softcore erotic scenes.

5 out of 10.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: The Firecracker on April 01, 2009, 09:49:44 PM
Gave this a quick look again while making a copy for a friend.

Something that got my attention was LVC not killing Nancy (the Deacon) when he captured him early on in the movie.
Both Dakota and Wang knew he would be a threat if he wasn't dealt with. Why not just kill him? Nobody would care, he's a wanted man.
Just another flaw.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Banjo on April 02, 2009, 02:21:33 AM
Prior to the finale when things took an ugly turn with the kidnap of Wangs girlfriend(or sister,i can't remember which) neither Dakota(a safe robber) or Wang(from the Shaolin temple) were killers.I guess they figured that they were too smart for the Deacon to be a major threat.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: riotengine on February 21, 2010, 03:03:46 PM
I was wondering what people thought of the 2008 Videoasia widescreen DVD of Blood Money/Stranger And the Gunfighter?

I picked this up cheap during the last Deep Discount sale. It's generally a nice transfer, but there are a few digital glitches in my copy.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: Arizona Colt on February 21, 2010, 10:59:15 PM
I was wondering what people thought of the 2008 Videoasia widescreen DVD of Blood Money/Stranger And the Gunfighter?

I picked this up cheap during the last Deep Discount sale. It's generally a nice transfer, but there are a few digital glitches in my copy.

VideoAsia is a bootleg outfit. There disc is a rip of the French DVD. The French disc has an English dub on it as well. Many of VideoAsia's "releases" are, and have always been problematic whether it be from using inferior software, or simply burning the movies too fast.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: riotengine on February 22, 2010, 12:36:16 AM
This is good to know. Amazon is selling it and Deep Discount. So I thought, (after doing some Google searching) that it might be legit.

Thanks for confirming it isn't.


Title: Re: El kárate, el Colt y el impostor aka The Stranger and the Gunfighter (1974)
Post by: cigar joe on July 22, 2013, 01:31:57 PM
I never seen this before, was expecting crap but it was an OK time waster 6.5/10