Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Other Films => Topic started by: spag fan on February 08, 2005, 01:22:50 PM



Title: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: spag fan on February 08, 2005, 01:22:50 PM
I've got the brentwood copy of this one also. I liked it quite a bit and would love to see it restored.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on February 08, 2005, 04:13:15 PM
Thats the key to these films, finding an uncut widescreen restoration DVD, crapy transfers & cuts can really destroy these films.

Thanks for the heads up derringdo. How about the sets and set pieces anything stand out in this?


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on February 09, 2005, 04:25:51 AM
Check Shobary's:


http://koti.mbnet.fi/rs901536/shobary/dvd.htm


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on February 13, 2005, 07:01:44 AM
Yea you are right, I remember seeing the comparison shots too, I thought this was on Shobary's site, but must have been somewheres else.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on February 14, 2005, 03:48:08 PM
I think you are right, too bad that site isn't set up like this one, a lot of old threads just fall off the board.

That French screen cap looked great. 

I have an Italian add for it that I'll post as soon as I scan it.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on February 14, 2005, 05:32:03 PM
Your description of Van Cleef's character reminds me of the character he played in El Condor.

anyway here is the Italian add:


(http://img231.exs.cx/img231/745/otherside1fl.jpg)


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on March 14, 2005, 04:16:00 PM
Quote
I just rented an older video version of this, to see if I was correct about the Brentwood dvd being cut, and I was.

Much worse than I thought, too-I was just expecting a few snips here and there, but some fairly major character scenes are on the VHS version and not the dvd.


That's the problem with a lot of these films you don't know for sure which version you are seeing and you got to wonder sometimes when somebody writes a glowing review of something you might have thought of as crap "what was he on or smokin'" when he was watching/reviewing it, lol.

That's where our friends on the SW in America board come in handy, since they seem to have seen and or own most versions of these films. And the added plus is that they are willing to share info on the best version to get.

derringdo has anyone offered any more info on that widescreen French version DVD?


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on March 16, 2005, 05:21:59 AM
thanks derringdo, it would be nice to see this widecreen and in english a possible project for FrancoCleef?


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on November 21, 2005, 10:06:24 PM
This is on the recent Wild East Double sided DVD along with The Grand Duel

Beyond the Law (1968) dir. Giorgio Stegani, a decent cast in an average film. Lee Van Cleef as Cudlip, Antonio Sabato as Novak, Gordon Mitchel as the dopey looking caped cusader bad guy Burton, Bud Spencer as Cooper and Lionel Stander as Preacher.

This film is an average film that plays more like an American Western the only problem is an American Western has a lot of American sounding dialogue, this film is hampered by depending on a lot of dialogue that doesn't quite sound right. 

This film is actually a particular sort of sub-genre of the western. Its not the "showdown in the street" or "gunslinger" type film but a "chase" type actioner. Its one of the old staples of AW's but usually it was a band of Indians chasing a wagon train, or an outlaw gang chasing a stagecoach.  It has well done though overly long fleeing wagon-gunfight chase scene and some neat stagecoach robbery sequences which are actually "the" major action pieces of the film, which if that's not your cup of tea you'll feel a bit of a let down it does have shootouts but they are not very memorable.

Gordon Mitchel as Burton the bad guy looks absolutely ridiculous with his black cape rather than actually act as a villian the director resorts to this cheesy device just in case we the audience don't get it. Its as ridiculous looking as the old time villians in the silent films where the tall black top hat and the handelbar moustaches signified the villian.

Lionel Stander was ok, I was hoping for a more memorable character but hes not as good as he was in his small part in OUTITW. Bud Spencer doesn't do anything at all and basically just fades into the background, and Antonio Sabato kind of falls into the typical green, wet behind the ears but a fast learner, character part that was already played by John Pillip Law, and Gemma. 

Van Cleef plays a part similar to his Jaroo part in El Condor a petty theif con man role and its good to see him doing a different type charater.

I think Van Cleef should have played another good badass Angel Eyes villian in at least one other good SW.

The soundtrack is forgetable on this flick.

The DVD doese have some extras, a trailer and some stills for The Grand Duel  side and also some for this flick.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: Banjo on November 22, 2005, 01:57:44 AM
Although i've only got a crappy pan & scan print copy of Beyond the Law,i pretty much agree with Cigar Joe although apart from LVC i thought Gordon Mitchells villain was the best character.The main problem with this movie is that it can't decide whether it is a slapstick comedy or a gritty action western.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on November 22, 2005, 05:18:12 PM
Don't get me wrong the disc is worth it for Van Cleef fans.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on November 22, 2005, 09:28:19 PM
Actually I did enjoy Van Cleef's performance, its just the whole film was average nothing special with a bit of dopey dialog. I'd like to see his Jaroo from El Condor again though for a comparison now, I'm basing what I said on that film from my impression first seeing it 35 years ago. But what stuck in my mind was this fight between Jim Brown & the Indians that was pretty ridiculous all the natives looked like midgets with Brown towering over them.



Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: Christopher on November 30, 2005, 03:29:11 PM
I finally got around to watching Beyond the Law today. I have the crappy quality version with this one and Death Rides a Horse on the same disc. But I have to say, it was $2.50 well spent. :D I enjoyed Beyond the Law as well, and I'm ready to watch Death Rides a Horse again.

I liked Gordon Mitchell as the villain. He is a creepy looking guy. But it was funny the first time he shows up in the movie. He's sitting up so straight on his horse and I wasn't sure if his eyes were open or not (maybe due to the picture quality), so I wasn't sure if he was alive or not.

And now I recognize derringdo's avatar.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: HEX on November 30, 2005, 05:54:48 PM
I finally got around to watching Beyond the Law today. I have the crappy quality version with this one and Death Rides a Horse on the same disc. But I have to say, it was $2.50 well spent. :D I enjoyed Beyond the Law as well, and I'm ready to watch Death Rides a Horse again.

I liked Gordon Mitchell as the villain. He is a creepy looking guy. But it was funny the first time he shows up in the movie. He's sitting up so straight on his horse and I wasn't sure if his eyes were open or not (maybe due to the picture quality), so I wasn't sure if he was alive or not.

And now I recognize derringdo's avatar.


yeah that is the dvd i have. real bad quality. i need to get that DEATH RIDES A HORSE dvd from europe as soon as i can. and yeah i recognized DERRINGDO'S avatar after i say the pristine quality version of LAW. its funny to think that VAN CLEEF is staring right into....ummmm....well never mind.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: titoli on January 10, 2006, 04:35:41 AM
Quote
Gordon Mitchell always makes me laugh in this movie: I think he's channeling Margaret Hamilton as the Wicked Witch of the West.  And I think the cape's eating him alive, frankly, it's kind of comical how small he looks in it (he was a 6'4" ex-body builder, but you get almost no sense of him as a big man from this movie.

I saw him once here in Rome, late '70's or early '80's. I was on a side of the street, he on the other, but wasn't stricken by his height or general bigness. I don't think he was that bigger or taller than me. Maybe he was 6'2', not taller.





 


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: Leone Admirer on January 10, 2006, 05:55:36 AM
I got my copy of the Lee Van Cleef double feature this morning, I look forward to watching them.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: titoli on January 12, 2006, 02:29:22 PM
The movie, well, it has a good start and a beardless Bud has a certain effect (though  one understands why this is his only feature like that). But then I think it is stretched and with much that is put there without development (LVC romancing, figure that!)  or twists to make it palatable. I said elsewhere I can't stand Gemma. But compared to Sabato he's Gary Cooper. What he was doing there at all is beyond me. 


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: Leone Admirer on January 16, 2006, 08:11:29 AM
I have posted my opinions of this movie and The Grand Duel here http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=2405.120 (I have also included a link to your review if thats ok for you Joe)


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on January 16, 2006, 09:32:27 PM
fine with me LA


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on June 08, 2006, 01:23:06 PM
It has well done though overly long fleeing wagon-gunfight chase scene and some neat stagecoach robbery sequences which are actually "the" major action pieces of the film, which if that's not your cup of tea you'll feel a bit of a let down it does have shootouts but they are not very memorable.


well thats a bit unfair. The last gunfight in the film is especially memorable and well done. It doesnt have the flair or inventiveness of the last gunfight in "Massacre Time" which I think the style of that would have suited this film well but it was still enjoyable and pretty long. Gordon and his over-sized cape dont bother me in the slightest, it was nice to see an old style villan(as you put it Joe) in a spag. And he was very menacing at the hostage situation inside the church.

Stander brings nothing new to his character as the creepy and slightly perverted old guy. But He is still fun to watch and he even adds comical relief to the last gunfight.

I thought Sabato would be annoying here but he comes off fine. The character fits him anyway.

Van Cleef has an impressive role here. He is not playing the typical bad ass in which he is always type-casted in. He does a good job with the wishy washy Cudlip although he tends to over act when angry.

A nice entry to the genre and worth a spot in your sw collection. Just keep away from the pan and scan R1 copy floating around bargain bins and department stores. Get yourself the Wild East version. you'll be glad ya did.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on June 08, 2006, 09:44:58 PM
Quote
A nice entry to the genre and worth a spot in your sw collection. Just keep away from the pan and scan R1 copy floating around bargain bins and department stores. Get yourself the Wild East version. you'll be glad ya did.


Only if your tastes run to campy westerns, dracula capes look  pretty ridiculous in a western. 8)


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on June 08, 2006, 09:53:02 PM


Only if your tastes run to campy westerns, dracula capes look  pretty ridiculous in a western. 8)


all spaghetti westerns are pretty campy.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on June 08, 2006, 10:05:39 PM
Not my top ten, they are better or as good as American Westerns.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on June 08, 2006, 10:09:08 PM
Not my top ten, they are better or as good as American Westerns.

My top ten is probably the same as your own Joe. Leone had moments of camp in his films and to a greater extent Corbucci as well.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on June 08, 2006, 10:26:37 PM
Maybe our definitions of camp-campy are not the same, Leone wasn't campy IMO he was being cooly humorous.

campy - describes an activity, or someone's behaviour or appearance, that is amusing because it is obviously intended to be strange or shocking.

camp (STYLE)   adjective INFORMAL
1 (of a man) behaving and dressing in a way that some people think is typical of a homosexual:
What's the name of that amazingly camp actor with the high voice and a funny walk?


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on June 08, 2006, 10:28:29 PM
Maybe our definitions of camp-campy are not the same, Leone wasn't campy IMO he was being cooly humorous.

campy - describes an activity, or someone's behaviour or appearance, that is amusing because it is obviously intended to be strange or shocking.

camp (STYLE)   adjective INFORMAL
1 (of a man) behaving and dressing in a way that some people think is typical of a homosexual:
What's the name of that amazingly camp actor with the high voice and a funny walk?


why does Gordon come off as a homosexual in that halloween costume?


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on June 08, 2006, 10:32:39 PM
he looks a bit campy, you could say yes I suppose.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on June 08, 2006, 10:39:20 PM
Thanks for clearing up "campy" for me. Always thought this meant "Cheesy". I knew it applied to John Water's(the king of camp or what not) but I never put two and two together I suppose.

Personally I dont think Gordon comes off as gay. I just think he is a bit of a nutter.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: Arizona Colt on June 11, 2006, 11:20:07 PM
To say a film or a character within a film is campy does mean there is a cheese quality inherent in the film whether it be intentional or otherwise. To say THE ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW is campy would be correct but in the context that it is intentionally campy but to say something like say THE SWARM from 1978(one of the most gut busting unintentionally comedic films ever made)or EMPIRE OF THE ANTS is campy would also be correct but in the context of unintentional campiness. THE POWER OF CHEESE.........


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: Arizona Colt on June 12, 2006, 12:08:02 AM
Mitchells cape never brought images of Dracula to my mind although it did remind me of Zorro.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on June 12, 2006, 12:09:41 AM
Mitchells cape never brought images of Dracula to my mind although it did remind me of Zorro.

I wasnt reminded of anything.

speaking of Zorro, are you a fan of the original show(from Disney)? I think its great and needs a proper release. There are some bootlegs floating around.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: Arizona Colt on June 12, 2006, 12:13:16 AM
Can't say that I am but I'm not a fan of Disney period except 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea and I have fond memories of the  SCARECROW films. These were like westerns too I think weren't they? Haven't seen them since childhood.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on June 12, 2006, 12:15:45 AM
These were like westerns too I think weren't they? Haven't seen them since childhood.
Got me there.
Scarecrow?
Is that about the Robin Hood esq avenger who dresses like a scarecrow and robs from the rich and gives to the poor?

"20,000 leagues..." is excellent! why the negative vibes towards disney If I may ask?


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: Arizona Colt on June 12, 2006, 12:24:03 AM
Yes there was a whole band of outlaws that dressed as scarecrows. I'm not sure why but I did like Disney as a kid. I have no negative vibe towards it I just can't bring myself to see those movies again when there is so much more I'd rather see that is to my liking. I recently acquired SONG OF THE SOUTH for a friend which I wouldn't mind viewing again for the simple reason the NAACP had it banned so I could see what there beef is with it apart from the speech used in the film.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on June 12, 2006, 12:26:48 AM
SONG OF THE SOUTH
Lucky you. I was just thinking about ordering a copy today through some ebayer. But he wanted 40 bucks for it. I gave him a quick "f**k off" and that was the end of that.


I'm sure there is nothing shocking in it.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: Arizona Colt on June 12, 2006, 12:32:12 AM
If you want it my friend who runs fareastflix has the japanese laserdisc. He may sell you a copy for $15.00 which is the price for most of his discs. Tell him Brian Bankston referred you.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on June 12, 2006, 12:36:12 AM
If you want it my friend who runs fareastflix has the japanese laserdisc. He may sell you a copy for $15.00 which is the price for most of his discs. Tell him Brian Bankston referred you.

www.fasteastflix?

thanks I'll keep that in mind.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: Arizona Colt on June 12, 2006, 12:44:08 AM
Yes that's the one. John is definitely the best of the bootleggers out there regardless of genre. He even goes through the trouble of creating his own menus(where needed)and performing subtitling duties. Also something big(as in good) is happening for his company soon that I'm not at liberty to speak of.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: cigar joe on June 12, 2006, 05:42:40 AM
another good Disney series that I liked as a kid was "Swamp Fox", guerrila fighters in South Carolina against the redcoats in the AR.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: The Firecracker on June 12, 2006, 12:36:53 PM
Looked up a bit of "Scarecrow". It has yet to be released onto dvd. Doesnt surprise me. Disney(now) will never release anything unless it has the number "2" on its title. Its not interested in releasing any of there classics and cult films.
Interestingly enough during further research Disney has recently made a comic strip adaption of there "scarecrow" film. The strip was featured on Disney Adventures magazine( a monthly issue I guess), so this can only mean that it is very possible Disney will be releasing it soon? Why else would they go through the trouble of introducing this to the new genereation of children?


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: Arizona Colt on June 12, 2006, 11:36:04 PM
If they were released on japanese laserdisc John probably has those as well. I'll ask  next time I talk to him.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: Banjo on May 25, 2007, 04:58:51 AM
Leone Admirer's review from his SW Virgins Guide:-

Beyond The Law

This Lee Van western begins well and ends well but is weighed down by a terrible middle which makes the film over long. The humour does not sit at all well in the film and it would have been much better if they had played the film straight through out like the begining and end.
    The film begins with a grouping of strangers traveling on a stage coach including a preacher (Lionel Stander) and a European called Ben Novak (Antonio Sabato) carrying money across the west to give to a silver mine to pay the workers. The money is stolen off the stagecoach and is hidden by one of the thiefs Cudlip (Lee Van Cleef). When Novack realises the money is gone he travels back to find it, only finsing Cudlip and a friendship is born. When hard troubles hit the town Novack forces his friend to become sheriff, seemingly not knowing of his murkey past.
      The opening heist seems to promise an excellent movie ahead. The director Giorgio Stegani manages to keep the pace up and the excitement high in the opening scenes. However a problem arises. The gang, including Cudlip and the preacher, never seems to convince that they could be an outlaw gang. They seem too jokey, too bumbling to be a good outfit. There are quite a few jokes made at their expense and this I think hurts the movie. If the gang had been portrayed as well badasses the moral dilema of Cudlip becoming sheriff could be much better realised and be more rewarding to the audience. The main villain of the piece played by Gordom Mitchell seems to be woefully out of place, his rediculous costume seemingly encapsulating this. At times, perhaps too much is happening at once and this hurts the movie.
    For me, this isn't the best Lee Van Cleef performance. He does however excel at the exciting end and in this he shows us a glimmer of what this movie could be.
   Sabato is ok as Novak, the new comer who quickly learns how to survive in the west. Other characters do seem to be not used very well. Mitchel does what he can with such a small bad guy role (he does manage to make him menacing, especially during a siege in the town but the film needs to spend more time with the character to make him all the more effective.
    The cinematography was ok, making use of the spanish locations and picking up the dirty, dusty location. Music was not very remarkable and the humerous banjo music I feel hurt the movie.
    Wild East have presented this film in a double set with The Grand Duel on a single 'flipper' disc.
    Beyond The Law is presented in an anamorphic print taken from the Italian release with an English mono soundtrack. The print is quite strong with a little bit of damage there and perhaps a few too washed out colors but it doesn't really hurt the movie at all. The Italian print is longer then the US release version and therefore when a scene that is on the Italian print but has never been dubbed for the English release appears, the film reverts to the Italian language with English subtitles. There is about 2 - 3 minutes of re-instated footage. The English mono is not bad, it does contain the usual clicks and hiss and does have a limited range but it doesn't really hurt the enjoyment of the film.
    Included on the extras front is a trailer, a photo gallery set to music and the alternate English titles. I personally think Wild East should be commended for including this extra as it does show the fact that they are looking at other prints to try and track down the one of the best quality for the DVD release. I also think the English titles were better then the one used in the Italian print in which the title card that Beyond The Law appears on is quite distracting.
  The film was a bit of a disapointment for me. It never reached it's full potential and it was let down by too many negative points. I wouldn't recomend this to new comers but devout fans of spaghetti's and Lee Van Cleef will most likely want to check it out.



Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: Banjo on May 26, 2007, 04:02:52 PM
Arizona Colts review:-

BEYOND THE LAW- 1968-Kind of forgettable LVC western with elements of comedy that just do not work most of the time. Bud Spencer is almost unrecognizable as the town mayor. Things pick up in the latter half when the black clad villain played by peplum star Gordon Mitchell enters the picture and the film becomes a serious affair.


Title: Re: Al di là della legge aka Beyond the Law (1968)
Post by: manuel on October 17, 2008, 09:51:11 PM
I like this film. It has a strong plotline and good character developement.